How to Play Nested Tuplets (polyriddim explained)

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What are nested tuplets? And how can we play them (accurately)? What do Frank Zappa, Igor Stravinsky, and 2020 dubstep have in common? Find out in this video.
In-depth breakdown / how I transcribed this (plus Discord server access) for $3:
○ / 38537764
The answers to the 'mystery tuplets' towards the end are all based on quintuplets with the following note groupings:
3 + 2 ('quintuplet swing')
2:3 + 2
4:3 + 2
4:3 + 3:2
Transcription PDF:
○ drive.google.com/drive/folder...
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[@ShawnCrowder]

Check out Adam Neely's video talking about nested tuplets! kzbin.info/www/bejne/ZnS7ZZaHq8dqnqc

[@TalesFromTheNexus]

i was just about to accuse u of ripping adam off ... n the jury's sill not out on that

[@themandownstairs4765]

@@TalesFromTheNexus they're bandmates and adam uploaded his video literally on the same day, using footage from this video; there's no way shawn could have ripped adam off ya dingus

[@BalthazarMaignan]

Hey Shawn, I love your videos! Will you make one on how to transcribe nested tuplets?

[@quack2889]

is it too late to ask to update the google drive link?

[@ricardozapata9142]

Watching Adam´s video: Oh I get it. Watching Shawn´s: Oh I don´t get it again.

[@Artec619]

Exactly what I thought!!!

[@TheDillpickle345]

lol too real

[@merrybeans3029]

You get it...this video is just a way more advanced/complicated breakdown of the same concepts from Adam's video. Same principles but this dude can do it so fast that even his analysis is like too much all at once for untrained listeners...he goes through years of learning in a short video. Like I'm trained/skilled and still have a hard time aurally following what I'm seeing on the screen. So don't beat yourself up 😊

[@phononmusic]

i'm so insanely impressed by all of this, how you managed to perfectly transcribe everything and then play it flawlessly is beyond me. thank you for taking the time to do this, it really means the world. knowing someone else appreciates the intricacies of the tune makes it all worth it :) i'm extremely interested in seeing the whole process so i'll definitely be joining the patreon!! and if you ever wanna work on something together in the future just let me know!!

[@ShawnCrowder]

wow, thanks so much! I love the tune, and it's awesome to hear these ideas being used in a new + unique (and accessible) way. keep it up dude!

[@Narcissistic_Penguin]

@@ShawnCrowder I scouted the comments hoping to see if you've seen this video, hats off to both you! I'd pin his comment, I doubt i'm the only one hoping to see his response!

[@mouthfulacoque3580]

Hi phone man

[@maxonmendel5757]

pin this

[@owensmusicalmisadventures2312]

One video and it’s of MarioKart... Photon Music? I can’t believe it’s really you

[@Jahu-qs2us]

_plays beat seemingly in 4/4_ _counts internaly in 7/Pi over sixtuplet polyrhythm_

[@johnny141093]

Typical of Phonon - the tempo of 122.5 bpm is actually a septuplet on the standard dubstep tempo of 140bpm - he fits 7 beats in the same time he would usually fit 8 for a “standard” dubstep tune, so the bar line will still line up if mixed with other dubstep tunes by a DJ, that or it is a troll - absolute madness

[@Sean-of9rs]

That is wild.

[@PapyPetitPois]

Classic gamer music move there

[@uhhok8296]

me: *finally has a decent understanding of complex harmonic ideas* also me: *is absolutely destroyed by the intricacies of rhythm theory*

[@machitoons]

its just divisions in time again, just much slower- then again im proud i manage a 3:2 polyrhythm lol

[@RefillerName]

Exact opposite for me

[@conzo4620]

@@RefillerName ay same, although this is a bit too much for me...

[@merrybeans3029]

Right? Drummers blow my mind with how fast and accurate they can reproduce such complex ideas.

[@Cobalt985]

I’m exactly the opposite - but then again I am a drummer. Lmao

[@barome2846]

How convenient that both he and Adam Neely both uploaded a video about Nested Tuplets within an hour. Love the video!

[@tomsentaylor1268]

Repetition legitimizes

[@derelbenkoenig]

@@tomsentaylor1268 also, repetition legitimizes

[@No_Liiife]

Again, repetition legitimizes.

[@peek_yew9369]

To repeat, repetition legitimizes

[@tweedledee5850]

It’s worth mentioning repetition legitimizes.

[@NikolaiBahzaan]

It's crazy how you're able to coordinate all those irregular counting

[@Iplayquad]

Practice practice practice 🙌🏻, I dont ever see how its possible its crazy

[@apothecurio]

I cannot believe it took this long. Nearly 20 years of dubstep before someone majorly released a song with all these crazy rhythms.

[@PieceOfDuke]

c'mon, only ten years really.

[@spitgorge2021]

@@PieceOfDuke you're talking about 'bro'step, the kind of stuff dubstep evolved into after skrillex and the like. dubstep has existed since the 90s along with other genres like drum n bass or idm (or you could even go so far as to say it began in the 70s/80s with Kraftwerk or Esplendor Geometrico)

[@PieceOfDuke]

@@spitgorge2021 could you please provide a link to a couple of examples? From 2000 and 2005 approximately would be best. I'm very intrigued.

[@koyangtsai]

@@PieceOfDuke kzbin.info/www/bejne/pme6e4yba9Ngopo This one was from 2005

[@PieceOfDuke]

@@koyangtsai thank you

[@uberchops]

Brain-ass Hot Take: All music is nested tuplets when you zoom out. Think about it, yo

[@MegaPhester]

"The extratone perspective"

[@BassMeisterable]

Everything is in 15/16 if you try hard enough

[@mayonnaisical]

or if you're bad enough

[@sierra3644]

in the beat... of life

[@nrauschermusic]

I mean yeah

[@rapscallion52]

Now thomas haake's going to play that with his feet

[@JaySuryavanshiMusic]

Adam briefly explains the concept and and tries to demonstrate it in Ableton Live while Shawn really goes into detail and like his other videos explains it from a perspective of a 'rhythm geek' Thanks, Shawn Really enjoyed the video!

[@danielmirandacastro7161]

Your channel is the one I send to classical music friends when they say percussionists/drummers aint real musicians ok son try this

[@aloysiuskurnia7643]

someone does *actually* say percussionists are not real musicians?!

[@danielmirandacastro7161]

@@aloysiuskurnia7643 yes, frequently, if you live in a country where traditional genres are mostly played by families and groups of non-formally trained musicians

[@punksterbass]

Brazilian composer Arthur Kampela has an interesting concept about nested tuplets called MICRO-METRIC MODULATION, i think you would dig it Basically, let's say we have a group of eight note quintuplets (5:4), but the last two notes we play as three eight notes (3:2). Now, we have another group of tuplets, but we have eight note sextuplets (6:4), but the first 4 notes of those sextuplets, we play as 5 notes (5:4) Since the fractions mutilpy to the same value (5/4 x 3/2 = 6/4 x 5/4), the last three notes of the first group and the first 5 notes of the second group last the same time, so we can move between the two groups with ease, kind of a metric modulation but in the nested tuplet level in short: 4 5 first group (triplet inside a quintuplet) - 1 2 3 (| | |) 1 2 3 4 second group (quintuplet inside a sextuplet) - (I I I I I) 5 6 the notes in parenthesis have the same duration, so we could even pass a new tuplet between these two groups of equal duration notes

[@flyingsteaks]

wow, this is interesting

[@MelodyWarp]

I love this kind of thing. It grooves super hard, and to me is a great example of using rhythm for tension/release. I'm fairly certain Richard Vreeland (AKA Disasterpeace) uses this in a number of his tracks, but I can't recall specifics off the top of my head. More than likely I'm thinking of something from his album "Level."

[@imperfect470]

There is a edm-y song called Midnight Sun (ft Ekcle) made by Vorso that also uses weird polyrhytms but is easier to perform. I'd loooove to see it performed by Sungazer. Hope you'll notice it

[@naresu]

wow, it never came to my mind that those were polyrhythms

[@hunternegron336]

Thanks for letting us know that this exists. It's fantastic!

[@gryd3461]

i fucking love vorso

[@somedude4728]

Yeah. Ekcle do a lot of polyrythms and polymetres.

[@callumwilliams5633]

Helter by culprate would also be awesome to see

[@WorkignTF2]

I've watched the final performance like a hundred times, it's incredible! 13:29 It's so fascinating to see music explained like this, it totally changes your experience of it.

[@zchelmerjoashgamboa7366]

adam neely videos in sync i see

[@Frownlandia]

As a nonmusician who nonetheless is compelled to sing along with difficult Zappa pieces, it's interesting finding out where I was fudging on the Black Page. I mean, aside from the parts where I just stop and try and come back in at the right time.

[@SPINNINGMYWHEELS777]

try counting or looking at the sheet music.

[@theclash435]

Dude your videos are so goddamn amazing, incredibly well produced!

[@SPINNINGMYWHEELS777]

You are cursing them? interesting mind set.

[@TrueMose]

14:14 bro the rhythm sounds so good

[@Simrasil_]

dude you're amazing not only are you one of the best drummers I know of but your videos are also of such high quality it's insane much love

[@2.7petabytes]

I so appreciate what you and Adam do! I’ve learned so much watching your videos! And that says a lot! My last foray into musical study was in high school in the 1980’s! You’ve both really encouraged me to start studying again! Thanks!!

[@reformedstoic1581]

Wow. I think you have the most advanced lessons, and you pull them off flawlessly. Much respect sir.

[@leonhardkaufmann5914]

this is like the most valuable channel on youtube, everything is just so valuable

[@mschambon]

That was a superb video! Thanks for illustrating the principles behind these figures and more importantly, a how-to achieve playing them. Thanks

[@aries_9130]

Your knowledge and ability to play music is miles ahead of mine so I can't completely grasp the concepts yet, however I find it truly amazing and fascinating.

[@drumdog]

Killer overview of a serious rabbit hole of a topic! Monstrously accurate playing too 👏

[@MooImABunny]

Just listening to this makes me exhausted. How many times during this did you think to yourself "is this really worth the meme?" Btw, here's something fun - Shawn currently had 44.1k subs. "Dude you should totally switch over to 48k, it makes the music so much clearer"

[@matthewwoolhouse3829]

This is great! Thanks for all the effort you put in to learn and make this.

[@Starwarsfan3331]

I’ve been looking for the beaming rules for ages. Thank you so much for making this video so entertaining and informative!

[@mybiggrin]

Dub step dude definitelyyy just highlighted a series of notes & used the stretch notes feature in Ableton on the grid.

[@leonsalascourante]

I admire how you talk about something so overwhelmingly complicated with such simplycity.

[@ApacheX11]

I dont play as much as I used to but I still love learning music theory. Thank you so much for this information. People spend their entire lives never learning about this stuff and here you are breaking it down in such a succinct and digestible way. Thanks again!

[@aidenfowler2245]

3:52 his left foot keeping quarter notes going over top of the groove is BONKERS

[@apothecurio]

That’s pretty much proof that he knows exactly what he’s doing cause he had to learn the relationships between the underlying pulse and all the insane rhythms.

[@bigpopakap]

Wow wow wow, Adam's video was my first exposure to nested tuplets, and then this video blew it wide open. I'm astounded that anyone can accurately play these. Great explanation, and amazing work! I learned a lot from the theory, and then was dumbstruck by the performance

[@BackspinZX]

This video is already giving me ideas for my electronic stuff. Great look into the concept!

[@AidanMmusic96]

Mad kudos for transcribing this!

[@carsonmccann7471]

Love the things you talk about this to, this is extremely informative and could be very beneficial at all levels (just got my degree in percussion, and I was still confused on the subject). I think it could be neat if you did a video outlining some of the rhythmic and musical choices of Tigran Hamasyan (his new song Levitation 21 seems to be pretty insane rhythmically). Thanks for the awesome, consistent content!

[@danday3741]

Drum Set is not "Percussion" though -- homie. Drum Set is its own separate Principal Instrument.

[@caniplaydrumsforyou]

So sick! You should post the performance in a separate video - I think theres a good amount of viral potential here.

Man, that was intense! Im learning konakkol and I think a lot of this stuff can be aproached with it too, great video and awesome skills.

[@aliensporebomb]

Crowder you're an utter madman! I love it!

[@noiJadisCailleach]

Okay. Insta-sub. Goddamn. That was just godly rhythm management.

[@jonatha_nbarron]

I would love to see you break down The Dance of Eternity, there are so many performances on KZbin, but nothing that really elucidates how to approach learning or playing such a piece.

[@peteharman1061]

That is way out there amongst the craziest things I've seen i thought i was exploring riddims but this work Shawn does is at a new level, Frank Zappa was so far ahead all that time ago

[@SPINNINGMYWHEELS777]

no he wasn't and he knew it as he admitted in many interviews he was hacky - .. he was literally aping the people he was obsessed with from a century before him. Difference was he just used electrified amplified digitized equipment and pop culture charting .

[@arneluebbertyguitar5980]

Fantastic Video!! Didnt understand it all but i will watch it again! Great Job on explaining this weird stuff!:D Congrats!

[@kopoflakes6009]

Love your vids shawn!!

[@DlmlZ]

Wow, really cool and amazing and not only for drummers! Well explained. Thanks for sharing

[@kunalkaul2608]

The metaphor at 10:00 is really great. I always have trouble explaining to friends why math music is even worth it, other than that it can exist, so this helps.

[@spencerkim4755]

Mind blowing. Excellent work!

[@DumblyDorr]

Ever since I've read Steve Vai's pieces on nested tuplets some ~18 years ago and really got into Zappa, I've wanted to dive deeper and learn to actually play them, not just understand the concept. With your video - I think I finally have no excuse not to learn it anymore :D Thanks, man - awesome stuff (and props to Adam as well)! Early Caligula's Horse ("Moments from Ephemeral City") and Aviations ("A Declaration of Sound", "The Light Years") are two examples of prog-metal bands where you can clearly hear the Zappa influence with the nested tuplets. Love it :)

[@IOxyrinchus]

I love watching videos about super specific rhythms/polyrhythms/note groupings that are so unusual the chances of me encountering them or incorporating them into my own music are extremely minimal... it can’t just be me

[@adamgillespie3393]

I've been waiting for this since Adam's video

[@fredschneider7475]

You are the man, Shawn! Amazing

[@marielove5606]

the real groove were the nested tuplets we made along the way

[@jkndrkn]

Thank you for posting this, Shawn! I am a beginner at drums and the practice tips that you share have been very inspiring. Am I the only one who noticed the car horn at the very end of the video?

[@StephenPeoplePerson]

Yeah, why has no one else mentioned that

[@reyesfreudenthalpablo8457]

Im excited for the Sungazer product of this simultaneous study!!!

[@deatheclipse123]

So ripe for exploration! Love it!

[@ArtOfDrummingHQ]

Oh my god Shawn, that was really insightful and mind boggling. It makes me wanna go practice these, but I've never worked on nested tuplets before. I'm very interested in how long it took for you to be so comfortable with all the different nested tuplets, along with putting everything together to play Polyriddim. How much practice was involved?

[@jesseolsson1697]

Hey Shawn, love the video! Had to watch it over and over again, but it's starting to make sense. Do you mind explaining the concept of slurring? I'm familiar with it on wind instruments, but not on the kit. Thanks!

[@jimmyhsp]

seeing rests where the kick sidechains the bass makes me smile

[@StupidMusicalExperiments]

Awesome playing Shawn.

[@rune9243]

this is melting my classical violist brain

[@ryanspercussion]

Quick note, most of the notes that you excluded on the downbeats are actually there, they’re just hard to hear because of sidechaining. The higher layer gets quiet when the kick happens, but it’s still technically there.

[@estudiomonteverdi]

great video! thanks!

[@Wind-nj5xz]

Me: *trying to focus on the test* My brain: 0:43

[@thepostapocalyptictrio4762]

Cool. Electronic music is going through its “New Complexity” phase. Great video. I learned a lit

[@saaaantiiiiiiiii]

This is mindblowing and fascinating.

[@nicholasscott9672]

The end of this video is the meanest and most well-earned stank-face of all time.

[@LanceWillMakeIt]

THIS IS SUCH A GOOD VIDEO!

[@famitory]

i gotta say for composing that while nested tuplets are fun to look at, getting the effect is more fun using nested tempo modulation (the instrument that's playing 'hears' a metronome of a changing tempo while the rest of them hear a steady one). this can be with a free running LFO, or by freezing audio written with actual tempo modulation, easiest accomplished in a tracker. see also continuous Risset rhythms, the tempo version of a sheppard tone.

[@vincentizghra6144]

I'm getting further all the time. Have watched 30 minutes of this video and reached the 3rd minute without having to go back to the beginning because I got lost!

[@johnnyt5514]

Thanks for sharing. This must be a lot of work to write, hear and learn. There is one not so hard and very musical nested tuplet, that comes out when practicing 5 stroke rolls with normal accents on the single stroke. If one concentrates on hearing the accents while filling in the unaccented roll notes as evenly as possible, you can squeeze those accents to become dotted eights (like an accent on every 3rd 16th). Even if your video pushes this concept so far, it is more common and useful as it might appear.

[@Darrentime]

Ty for making this video :)

[@jamescumbie2187]

I wanted a video on how to play nested tuplets. KZbin said, "here you go." Justified its existence once again!

[@darrensutton5666]

I like the pushing drums down the stairs analogy. Cuz thats exactly what it sounds like...lol

[@EllieMcEla]

i think the 7 part is actually in 7/3.5, the producer confirmed the "tempo change" is related from half-note septuplets (that last two bars of 4/4)

[@alienjim]

This has completely baked my noodle. Be back in a year....

[@christophervaca7116]

Incredible lesson

[@JamesMaresMusic]

Jesus Christ, Shawn you’re a beast

[@jiricevela3822]

Are you a god of metrum and rhytm or what? Insane...

[@manuelgafgen2265]

Wow the polyrythmic part feels so intense, crazy performance

[@merazbakth4766]

You’re the BEST! 👍✌️👌

[@timothysnave]

I have no idea what your channel is like outside of this but dammit, man, you earned the sub. Just take it. Take the damn sub.

[@udomatthiasdrums5322]

love it!!

[@fast1nakus]

Great job man

[@nuke97]

Hi Shawn! happy new year. After viewing this video a number of times it occured to me to ask you if you would ever provide a video breakdown on anything Aphex twin or Richard D James has done rhythmically?

[@henleyvarnerii1090]

this is awesome seeing it written out and explained! but when listening to without reading it reminds me of Djembe soloing...

[@Darkserpentes]

Cool, we're getting closer and closer to understanding Fernyhough's music. What about an explanation/playthrough of some exerpts of 'Bone Alphabet'? Could be an interesting video if you wanna go further with this.

[@NicolasPL_]

I think you'd really like Car Bomb, they're insane and I hope you even do a video of them :D

[@TheSquareOnes]

Seconding this, Elliot Hoffman is a ridiculous drummer and everything that band does is insane. Shawn doesn't seem to cover much metal stuff but they're definitely worth looking into for sure.

[@NicolasPL_]

@@TheSquareOnes you're right, Shawn's not into metal, but hopefully he can do it

[@JeremieCarrier]

so is the groovy section with nested tuplets at 12:00 just triplets and doubles inside quintuplets? awesome video, Glad to be part of the 99% of people who know about these things hahah

[@JoshuaDeLaVictoria]

Sick man!!

[@PokPokChickenGod]

Sheeeesh thats tuff but so much knowledgee !!!

[@LordQueezle]

Please convince Sungazer to cover this live. It'd be a headache, but so cool!

[@naresu]

The metric modulation itself is 7:8 and I find that also interesting also there was a change of pitch when it went back to 7/4

[@ashleyholloway6993]

I've been playing drums for a month and this is what I want to do

[@SamuelRHoward]

I covered nested tuplets using precisely this example in my first video 2 years ago - interesting to see somebody else finally covering this in similar detail.

[@PabloAfroSamurai]

Rather than the gymnast metaphor I would use "stuntman falling down the stairs". It looks like he's having a horrific accident falling down the stairs but everything is planned to the milimetre and he knows how to do it so as to not hurt himself.

[@gregathol]

This really tested my nuplets

[@indocesare14]

This stuff is fucking crazy!!! You really pushed yourself to the limit to play this thing

[@AlexBrogan96]

Thank you for clarifying beaming rules. It has ALWAYS bothered me when a piece is written in 6/8 and they have eighth note duets but what they really mean is quarter note duplets since the eighth note duplets are slower than the normal eighth notes. Tuplets always speed up notes, not slow them down.

[@luviaengrafito]

why on earth wouldn't you notate that as a doted quaver?