Canada's all-purpose VTOL transport that could have changed everything; the Canadair CL-84 Dynavert

[@cammiller2821]

My father was a test pilot with the program. He likes to tell the story about part of the sales campaign, when one landed on the helipad of the Whitehouse. (pre arranged of course). He is now working at the National Aviation Museum as a volunteer. He made sure that he pointed out number four to me.

[@MrMASSEYJONES]

I know him very well. A photo of all of us is online, from LtCmdr Zbitnew archives. I have the same one at home; every one of us got an 8x10 of the group shot.

[@lohikarhu734]

Every time I watch this, I get more and more pissed off that the Canadian aviation industry got screwed * so many times * ...what a cool aircraft this was/is!

[@RickSoaring]

Great video. I remain amazed by what the engineers from back in the day were able to produce without hardly any computer/simulation tools.

[@MS-gr2nv]

Did you miss all the wind tunnel testing? Static testing, 16bit computer to control low speed and transitions?

[@macrumpton]

Not quite as heartbreaking a story as the Avro Arrow, this seems to be another case of hard work and brilliant ideas tragically losing out to politics. Great presentation. I wonder what the costs compared to an equivalent helicopter would have been? Just the fact that you did not need to be a helicopter pilot to fly it seems like it would have made it a success.

[@dartmaster501]

Dude, did you not listen? Not so much politics as none of the potential costumers placed any orders. And here's why: 19:52

[@jb76489]

The avro arrow was canned because it wasn’t a good plane built for a role that wasn’t needed

[@Maple_Cadian]

and yet the CF-101 Voodoo was adopted a big interceptor in a role which ICBMs supposedly "didnt exist".

[@TCSC47]

​@@dartmaster501 Sales were needed to the Americans, but as has been shown in many cases, the Americans will much prefer to buy American, and even attempt underhand actions against the companies they see as competition. The reason why the P1127 / Harrier was successful was because it became the McDonnell Douglas (now Boeing) AV-8B Harrier II instead of the Hawker Sidley Harrier. In contrast, here in the UK, TSR2 was cancelled in favour of the General Dynamics F111 through politics influenced by the Americans, and Canada had a similar thing with their Avro Arrow.

[@MrMASSEYJONES]

It wasn’t’t a total loss. The basic design was incorporated into the V-22 Osprey airvraft (a real gem by US military standards) as a “flying truck” and aerial machine gun platform in Vietnam). The difference is thst, the engine nacelle rotate on the V-22, and not the entire wing. When I was on the CL 84 project (we called it CC-84 - and never “Dynavert”, the main shaft had to be replaced at least 4 times to my knowledge on 8401, due to minor cracks which developed in flight during the transition from Wing 90 (Helo mode) to Wing 0 (standard aircraft). If you find the group picture, I’m in there. Massey is a borrowed name for privacy.

[@richardthorn7726]

A most proper, brilliant and well informed presentation a shear delight. Thank you.

[@stejer211]

Seconded. Every country should have a channel like this!

[@criticalevent]

It must have been an amazing time to be an aerospace engineer in Canada when you could be working at Canadair making just about anything anyone could dream up.

[@nzs316]

…And today all innovation is crushed!

[@loganholmberg2295]

I love the sad undertones of the music in these vids. A time when the Canadian aerospace industry had great potential and is now sadly mostly forgotten.

[@CanuckinAsia]

Could have, should have, would have... rocked the program if folks simply ordered them. Makes me proud to watch this. Thank you.

[@ianbell8701]

Very nice video. Both my dad and I worked for Canadair. My dad introduced me to one of the CL-84 test pilots - Bill Longhurst. I believe he was involved in one of the airframe losses. Your documentary has some great shots on operations at Cartierville which is now a housing development. Thanks for bringing back some great memories.

[@ianbell8701]

Polyus Studios I really enjoy your videos. The technical content is excellent. If you are looking to do more videos regarding Canadian aerospace history, the Pratt & Whitney Canada flight test operation would make an interesting research project. I worked there for 18 years and was very involved with the 720B flying test bed, C-FETB. I was involved in the modification design and flew a couple of thousand hours as Flight engineer. I’d be more than happy to provide history and technical info. Regards.

[@tanzanos]

What a shame. Another one bites the dust in the aviation industry. Thank you for the upload.

[@dashcroft1892]

Nice of Canadair to show Bell-Boeing how to do it!

[@Paiadakine]

Agree looks more robust than the osprey. Probably much cheaper. Definitely did not kill so many folks in accidents.

[@brustar5152]

Typical that the USAF XC 142 was a direct rip-off of the CL-84 that ultimately led directly to the Osprey

[@sc1338]

That is one ugly craft. Osprey is way better

[@brownj2]

I worked on the V-22. Nobody was looking to this design for anything. This Canadair plane was a failure

[@daszieher]

@@brownj2 what was your task that gives you this insight?

[@BakerStudiosIndy]

So far ahead of its time. So far ahead of Bell/Boeing. Truly a monumental work of aviation engineering.

[@LeeGee]

Made me suprisingly proud of Canada - I'm English :)

[@shawnwright5332]

👍🇨🇦 lolol

[@BIGJXXX]

I am an American and I am proud of Canadian tech.

[@jb76489]

Don’t have anything of your own to be proud of?

[@paulcabot627]

Well Done. Watching the 84 from the second floor classrooms at Holy Cross High School is something I have never forgotten.

[@happyundertaker6255]

The music is “Denmark” from the Portland Cello Project.

[@BIGJXXX]

thank you

[@TCSC47]

Excellent video. And on a personal note, you have given me an insight into some of my father's work.

[@pinga858]

I wish we (the US) would have got on board with this. I can only imagine what it would be like with decades of improvement

[@mbc6008]

I am soooo glad I found this channel. It’s hard to find Canada’s important and underrated aerospace contributions in a sea of American media.

[@kpal2946]

If this went into production imagine what this machine could do today. I am fortunate to be able to see this aircraft at its home in Ottawa , It is one of my favorite aircraft at the museum. Thanks for all your great content.

[@natcalverley4344]

Built for far less and far earlier than the osprey.

[@lepompier132]

@@polyus_studios YEp Canadian aerospace was ingenious in that time. Canadair did explore early drones designs way before the drone name was coined.

[@sc1338]

The Germans were even earlier, but just like this was a failure.

[@natcalverley4344]

sc1338 The Dynavert was not an engineering failure . It had its teething problems but nothing compared to the Osprey. It was not a commercial success partly because as usual as gutless Canadians we wouldn’t take a leap of faith and stand behind are own product just like the acronym aero . We turned our back on our innovative engineering and our armed forces as usual. We as Canadians must take the blame for not insisting on supporting home grown projects and supporting our military and aero engineering sector . We have produced such planes as the beaver, otter , caribou that more than beat the standards of the time. The Dynavert and Aero would have joined those other aircraft as cutting edge world beaters if we only had taken that leap of faith.

[@Vespuchian]

I've known about this thing for years and I'm still amazed by how _well_ it worked. I've nothing against the UH-1 but the CL-84 just seemed to do the same, but better. It's a real shame it wasn't picked up by anyone, even if just to do the same job as a helicopter. [imagines later production variants of the design, including a narrow-bodied 'strike' version like the AH-1, set to wistful music] Oh well, there's always the alt-history forums! Great video, KZbin's random recommendations strike gold once again!

[@MostlyPennyCat]

Stupid thing is, the world is still desperate for affordable tilt rotor, at least militaries are for _Carrier onboard delivery_ _AWACS_ _Inflight refueling_ _Anti submarine warfare_ from conventional STOVL aircraft carriers But does Canada even have aerospace capability anymore?

[@toothyrufus5353]

Thank you for these well produced and informative videos!

[@RainmanHST]

Absolutely love this channel! Thank you so much for sharing Canada's history. I will be watching all your videos.

[@Omnihil777]

Very good accumulation of facts on the CL-84, plus: I actually like the music. Thanks.

[@Wilge_Zomer]

I never really got why these tilt wings aren't more popular. they are superior over helos in almost every way. but sadly politics doesn't care if its better or not

[@Paiadakine]

Agree. And you could potentially land it like an airplane if needed.

[@richardmoore609]

Because they are insanely more complicated and crash A LOT. They're also MASSIVE. sitting next to an M1A1 the osprey dwarfs it.

[@bottomtext5872]

@@richardmoore609 It's maybe because the Osprey is designed to carry more than 6 people?

[@BioClone]

I guess its money and efficence based on it, Helis got 1 engine (not counting the tail one tbh) cheaper and easier to maintain, probably also less fuel needed per pound lifted, while probably a design like this one (based on couples) had inherent problems related to calibration, asymetry problems, etc... twice the base twice the trouble. * I still love this more than helicopters, I think the maneuverability could be way better, however I think the military left too much love into other air vehicles like jet fighters or bombers, making this "middle point" (between air and land) less exploited.

[@starliner2498]

@@BioClone Helo have their tail rotor linked to the engines that drive the main rotor, there's no small engine in the back :)

[@detesla9575]

Man this was a perfect blend of commentary and spot on music track. I reckon i'll have to sub.

[@futurefish8819]

The son of one of the lead designers ran a classic music review show on CBC radio (Rick Philips and Sound Advice). Perhaps this inspired the soundtrack.

[@SuperYellowsubmarin]

Very impressed with that low level transition !

[@edgarguinartlopez8341]

Thank you for sharing... An amazing project and engineering effort. Bravo for Canadians.

[@epicmonckey25001]

I just discovered your channel and I absolutely love it. Keep up that fantastic work bud!

[@danielduarte6149]

Very nice documentary for the aviation people. The soundtrack is also very well chosen, congrats. Gotta love unconventional aircraft. Such a big lesson, what IS success, in the end?

[@pastorrich7436]

Bravo! Excellent and informative storytelling on a project before it’s time.

[@pastorrich7436]

And today I see the US ARMY has announced that the Bell V-280 tiltrotor is to become its new utility aircraft replacing the UH-60 Blackhawk. The engineers of Canadair were just a few years too far in the future but were right all along. Still, it is the manufacturer of the UH-1 that won the contract with a twin-rotor design! As a matter of fact, I believe all of the modern tilt-rotor designs are twins. Nods to Canadair?

[@valterXIII]

Thank You for another great documentary. Very interesting to see the aircraft designed and flown 40+ years ago, capable of fulfilling numerous roles so coveted today by those looking for a COIN airplane. Practical, multirole capable, low pilot load, easy to transition to,made in Canada, and it didn’t get far at all. Hard to accept.

[@King_Flippy_Nips]

yea, the arrow if upgraded could perform as well as the fifth generation fighters of today and it was almost brought back instead of the f-35, and the cl-84 if made larger and used the bigger engines they initialy were going to use could easily outperform the osprey, and both would cost a fraction of what they f-35 and v-22 do.

[@negergreger666]

Great quality video! Strange that this one didn’t go further as it seemed to fulfill the stated capabilities very well. Most other vtol concepts seems to have floundered on technical difficulties, this one seemed to have been cancelled purely on lack of commercial interest.

[@christophtantow4410]

Very informative. Thank you very much!

[@EngineeringNS]

Your sound track is amazing. Keep up the good work great video

[@paulmcewen7384]

Really really really really cool video.

[@devonopdendries7722]

Another great video. I never realized how successful this aircraft actually was! It's a shame we didn't take advantage of that innovation.

[@briancavanagh7048]

great content and narration! please turn down the back ground noise a few more notches A foreign country isn't going to buy an unoperational aircraft if the Canadian government doesn't buy any

[@GoofieNewfie69]

It's typical Canadian government way. Canada should be a leader in military aircraft production, but when big brother down south says no that's it. And it don't help that canadian politicians can't see past their own current in house squabbles. Canada will never measure up to it's great potential.

[@anonymousperson2110]

It's not the American's fault, it's the politician's fault. No matter what country, politicians always ruin everything. Same here in the US.

[@thilotherz9300]

Also, was there a mention of the unit cost?

[@zuestoots5176]

@@anonymousperson2110 Politicians with R beside their name.. Fixed it for you

[@NightPhantomz]

@@jb76489 Britain has the same problem. Any failure of their own projects is blamed entirely on the US regardless of the actual reason for failure. Go look at any video of the TSR-2 or concorde and you'll see them.

[@maxgood42]

Australia has also had some ground braking developments but stalled by Politics ....... FACEPALM.... Fantastic Video PS.

[@roba4295]

So much has been made of the engineering of the Osprey that it makes this achievement from the 60s seem so much more impressive. Add to that fact that it was easy enough to fly that a pilot could plop it down on an aircraft carrier. A pilot not trained in ACC landings! A ground crew needed no advanced training!?! These things are unheard of and offer huge benefits to government and military from a logistics and training point of wiew and combine to make this aircraft a 'one of a kind' in missed opportunities for the Canadian Air Force and public. Such a shame. No wonder a lot of aviation engineers said 'screw it' and went south. At least they would find a government who would appreciate their skills.

[@lau4893]

Great video! Man I really wish Canadair was still around...

[@d.cypher2920]

This is a most excellent documentary! 😎🇺🇸

[@jeffreywatson3534]

Awesome video! Never heard of it before! Thank you.

[@NortonPeabody]

an impressive aircraft to say the least and the transition speed from vertical to horizontal flight is amazing...

[@offensivebias3965]

This is an amazing video!

[@tahustvedt]

Outstanding video!

[@fredericoeusebio9770]

the rejection of projects like these sets humanity back decades at a time

[@woooweee]

Germany had a wood stealth bomber and were ahead in many things as well. The US stopped going to the moon since black leaders complained about the cost when they needed the help, and that drag on humanity continues to this day.

[@johnrandle5995]

Amazing aircraft and great video 👍

[@MRyzlot]

Your VO is GREAT - the music is loud and distracting JR

[@mindwhacker]

James Ryzlot yes I agree too. I wish I can hear his nice VO clearly but the music is too intrusive. Thanks for the nice video and info research.

[@blackdeath4eternity]

its a bit loud i agree, but i like it, just wish it was a bit quieter. lol

[@gsmith4679]

Excellent informative video, nicely done. Subscribed!

[@ryansplace2009]

This aircraft seems like it would have been a great candidate for Arctic support operations where runways aren't always available. It could have been used to resupply submarines.

[@garywithers852]

That thing is fantastic, and, ahead of it's time.

[@jjpugh57]

Excellent and accurate. #3 is in the Royal Aviation Museum of Western Canada, Winnipeg, Manitoba.

[@swiper1818]

Really interesting mini documentary!

[@ThroneOfBhaal]

Why in the hell does Canada design so much awesome stuff, beautifully thought-out, designed and well built and then no one wants to buy it or use it? It's heart breaking.

[@King_Flippy_Nips]

its because america has the power to persuade other countries not to buy from us and then they end up making very similar aircraft years later, just like in this video, they signed on to make the cl84 a joint program then cancelled it probably after they had enough info or access to the blueprints and then they tried to make an almost exact copy as their own, unfortunately they tried to make the 4 engine version which canada knew didnt work so the US gave up for a couple of decades and made the v-22 osprey which still isnt as good as the cl-84 and they cost 72 million each, the only advantage over the cl-84 it has is payload capacity and a slight range advantage and if the cl-84 were scaled up and used the large size airframe and much more powerful engines they intialing were looking to use it would easily outperfom the osprey at probably half the cost, the US also made a jet strikingly similar to the avro arrow year after they helped pressured diefenbaker into cancelling the program, and the arrow built in 1959 was almost ressurected and used instead of the f-35 because it could compete or outperform it even though it was 40 years older and the arrow would cost a fraction of what the f-35 cost.

[@ozzy7763]

Very impressive!!!

[@Si1ete]

At some parts of the video the music makes it impossible to hear what is being said

[@robert506007]

Great doc and such a shame the aircraft never got recognized

[@simonl7784]

That was really good Polyus

[@benpeltola1364]

Another interesting plane of similar design is the Vought XC-142, which had 4 engines and could carry more cargo. It flew before the Dynavert, IIRC.

[@NorthernExposure101]

Amazing what we accomplished under a culturally cohesive society with a vision for technological progress

[@TheJamrockJay]

This seems like a concept that could be revived and employed in the current setting. Lots of upgrades obviously. And still relevant in domestic military and civilian applications.

[@timgarrett203]

Very good history lesson. Especially in these times of electric VTOL flying cars. Learn from the past!

[@alanlawless1625]

Thank you for taking the time to do this so well. I'm having trouble retrieving your reference data from the the websites. Do you have any suggestions?

[@rgt4848]

Awesome video. Thanks.

[@trentdabs5245]

You Sir are doing God's work here Thank You 😁

[@TheSportCompact]

The Osprey went back into service in 2007. It has been pulled from it because of safety concerns and had been pulled and was an active aircraft well before its reinstatement.

[@dodgewrench7221]

I wish they still made these, looks like it'd be great for bush flying

[@williamprice3929]

The reason why these aircraft didn't succeed back than was because of the inability to transport a reasonable cargo, a reasonable distance. The technology, engines, computers just wasn't there at the time.

[@zf4hp24]

Exactly. Carbon fiber (lots of it) and digital flight computers are what (finally) enabled the V-22.

[@SaturnCanuck]

Very good. You forgot to mention two things however. General Dynamics' involvement and how the name "DynaVert" came into being.

[@beeqool]

btw i live 15 minutes from where Karlis Irbitis was born and grew up. ive riden motorcycle through that town a few times.

[@sarlife]

As an American, I must say I wish we had swallowed our pride and bought the darn thing. It was amazing. Hope you get back to building military aircraft soon.

[@Z1PP00]

Wow I never saw the Dynavert in this way before. It actually was a serious contender to the UH-1D. Considering how the popularity for convertiplanes are increasing, a rebirth could be possible.

[@manofsan]

Canada should have exported this to the USA, instead of them wasting all those years and money developing the V-22 Osprey for their Marine Corps. CL-84 looks like a truly rugged and versatile aircraft.

[@fredbrown1928]

Wow! Astonishing remarkable aircraft, and remarkably good video. Compliments and Big TY's!! And y'know, all I can think of is...? Where are my tools? Where's my design software? I WANNA BUILD ONE OF THOSE SUCKERS!!! :- ) And with today's aviation tech? Think a cut above passenger-drone-type/ultralight aircraft. How sweet can we make it? TYs again.

[@petermallia558]

Some people would say this aircraft was ahead of it's time, because of flyby wire and computer controlled digital technology, I'd say this, ok believe everything ever invented is invented exactly when they should be, it's the technology needed to complete and to bring such inventions to fruition that lags behind, and only when we invent something like this, it shows what technology is needed to improve to make such aircraft work as good as they should, same with the B2 Spirit stealth bomber, the Early Flying wings were supposedly ahead of time but both turbo prop and jet versions needed fly-by-wire and better computer technology to make them a success, forcing further research and development in to technology to make such an aircraft a success, so again, I believe things are invented exactly when they are meant to be invented, pushing further the march for more advancements. Very good video, a short documentary really, I enjoyed it.

[@ambrosehusser3774]

I just want to say thank you. I don't know what happened to documentary after the 90's . But they just don't have the same depth. The really on cgi and special effects and not that engineering. To me anyway

[@MegaBoilermaker]

Shades of the Arrow !

[@spurgear4]

@@polyus_studios Our Government

[@UbiqueTransport]

A Swiss company, Dufour, has bought the rights to the CL-84 and is planning to start production in Quebec.

[@glennpettersson9002]

I am staggered that no one saw the potential for this aircraft. It would have revolutionised the civil aviation industry and from an economic perspective enabled VTOL transport right to major cities.

[@tssteelx]

Vary interesting. I see your channel is aero space specific any plans to do any other Canadian designed equipment?

[@lindsaybrambles9678]

If you look at the aerospace industries of many countries you are likely to find similar stories of aircraft that showed great promise but never found a market due to a plethora of factors--though often (sadly) factors that were largely political in nature. Most of the major industrialized countries are loath to buy military hardware from foreign sources unless there is a domestic benefit (beyond the obvious military need). We do this ourselves in Canada by often requiring manufacturing offsets and domestic subcontracting when we purchase such things as fighter jets. The idea behind this is to not only provide jobs for Canadians, but also to provide a capability to produce (to some extent) military materiel in situ--a capability that can be critical in the event of a war wherein domestic production prevents the sort of bottlenecks to availability that we saw with PPE during the early days of the pandemic. Timing, too, can be essential in bringing an aircraft to market, and many an aircraft has fallen victim to appearing too soon or too late to cash in. But while we may lament the failure to achieve a place in the world market by this aircraft and others in Canadian aviation history, we should take note that on the flip side there have been many successes. It is no different in other industries, and often it is not the best technology that wins out but the one with the best marketing and/or backing (particularly financial and political). Great video, by the way. Very professional and informative. I look forward to seeing more.

[@dalejmobiledalej6361]

This is how empires roll. We can't have our neighbours producing better tech than we do. No no no, they have to buy our product.

[@richardlorych9868]

beautiful music, shame i could still hear commentator above it!

[@mrrolandlawrence]

wow how was this never put into production? and why has it not been looked at again? tilting the wing not just the props is the way to go... and the tail prop...

[@alexandersinclair9006]

Nothing like giving your enemy a massive target to shoot at. One that if hit will bring the acft down. So no not the way to go.

[@TCSC47]

I have written about my father in one of Polyus videos on the CL28. He moved on to Hawker Siddeley from Canadair to work on the development of the P1127 / Harrier jump jet. In the late 60's he had to return to Canada to exchange Hawker's VTOL experience for that of Canadair's (I think), presumably to help with the developments of both the Harrier and the CL84 . My mum told me he was shitting bricks (not her exact terminology) as he went through Canadian customs because he had not paid his taxes upon leaving Canada for Britain! Got away with it, and all very much in the past now!

[@timcameron9023]

that's impressive!

[@xairman565]

One of the CL-84’s is here in the museum in Winnipeg. To my knowledge it never flew. The program was canceled before it was ever tested.

[@phamnuwen9442]

THE MUSIC IS A BIT LOUD!!!!!!!!!!!!! (other than that, nice video and cool aircraft)

[@MrMASSEYJONES]

Under my real name (this one for convenient purposes), I was attached to the CX84 project at Canadair for 2 years. Can’t reveal more, but very closely involved daily with the aircraft, which was purposely built square, to fit inside a DDH (destroyer) hangar

[@polyus_studios]

oh cool! Did I get most of it right?

[@jerryjencik3879]

What a wonderful machine! Where can i get one?

[@cheyennereynoso4116]

Yep! I’m subscribing

[@charliechan226]

This was like the predecessor of the Osprey. Now that our oil industry is dead more than ever it would have been nice to have a world leading aerospace industry

[@NoMatterDesign]

Brilliant documentary. Next time, it you put some background music, can you lower the volume? Makes headaches to anyone trying to understand your narration. Other than that brilliant. Cheers

[@jonasbeaver]

You are doing the work the History channel should be doing, very professional and well researched. One recommendation if you decide to record it again, avoid works like "our" or a shared collective as a Canadian. The subject stands equal to things outside Canada and I think as a documentary it would benefit from a more neutral tone. One example would be "our country had to offer" at the very end, "Canada had to offer" would be more neutral. This is positive criticism for an otherwise fantastic job, I could see it being shown in classrooms, especially virtual like we are stuck with for now.

[@TCSC47]

As you said, sales were needed in particular to the large market of the Americans, but as has been shown in many cases, the Americans will much prefer to buy American, and even attempt underhand actions against the companies they see as competition. The reason why the P1127 / Harrier was successful was because it became the McDonnell Douglas (now Boeing) AV-8B Harrier II instead of the Hawker Sidley Harrier. In contrast, here in the UK, TSR2 was cancelled in favour of the General Dynamics F111 through politics influenced by the Americans, and Canada had a similar thing with their Avro Arrow.

[@frankleespeaking9519]

The US, like any other country, does prefer home grown designs over foreign ones. But we will buy from other sources if needed. Like Sig sauer M17, from Germany, the 120mm gun in the m1 tank from Germany, the new Frigate from Fincantieri Marine Italy and the Stryker Armored vehicles from Canada. In this case - Canadair was a subsidiary of General Dynamics. The engines were Lycomings built in Connecticut. Of the 3 that flew 2 crashed. The US lost interest in the project because Vietnam ended and the military cut spending. The U.K., Italy, Germany and the Netherlands passed on it too....

[@jb76489]

Frank Lee Speaking the m17 is not from Germany

[@frankleespeaking9519]

jb76489 where do you think SIG Sauer s corporate head quarters is located?

[@jb76489]

Frank Lee Speaking the company that developed the M17? New Hampshire

[@frankleespeaking9519]

jb76489 . Yes they manufacture in New Hampshire but the profits go to Eckernförde Germany. General Motors sells thousands of cars in China but it’s still an American auto company. The point of this thread is that the USA buys from foreign companies when it will

[@jb76489]

The money goes to Emsdetten but whatever. I don’t think you fully appreciate how stupid what you’ve just said is. The gun was designed and manufactured in america but it’s German because that’s where the holding company is. Bloody brilliant mate. “The point of this thread....” I never said anything to the contrary, with the exception of the m17 everything you said was correct

[@coreyandnathanielchartier3749]

Very informative video. Went a bit astray with the political overtones. Like Arrow, if Canada's forces won't buy it, why do you think anyone else would.? It is not the duty of America to buy aircraft from Canada. Perhaps you should explain why no sales were forthcoming from the Canadian government, and why civilian sales were not pursued. Looks like a handy piece of equipment in the Arctic or deep forests/ courier flights to ships and oil rigs, etc.

[@lohikarhu734]

Title really should be "The VTOL Transport that *should* have changed everything" !

[@granskare]

I think this is cool- from US