Canadian Defence Strategy and Issues - Procurement Disasters, the Arctic & Alliances

[@PerunAU]

Sponsored by Ground News: Compare news coverage from diverse sources around the world on a transparent platform driven by data. Try Ground News today and get 40% off your subscription: ground.news/perun All I can say to all the Canadians in the audience is that I'm very sorry, but this had to be done in fairness to the Germans and other nations that will eventually be covered. Whether we ever do a sequel looking more into the reasons behind some of these issues, more examples and how they might (possibly) be addressed, will probably come down to how this video is received. I very much hope you enjoy, and look forward to seeing you again next week.

[@sdoo-ou2ni]

I apologize on behalf of our government they mean well.

[@kslough5411]

I apologize on behalf of our government as well - they are busy trying solve problems of their own creation (or those they have no hope of solving)

[@Syndr1]

Hi Perun, I too would like to Apologize for Canada. 🍁😅

[@siechamontillado]

Perun, great video and wondering are you going to be covering the Australian military at any point?

[@tizi087]

to be honest: i dont feel like we germans deserve this fairness. Just look at the shitshow of our army. i havent watched the video just yet, but i doubt the canadians can manage to outdo our germans wonders when it comes to our army. Thats just not possible. Edit: i want to congratulate our german sleeper agents which we covertly deployed in WW1 and WW2, disgused as POWs, for reducing Canada millitary capabilites. Sadly they used our own tactics.

[@michaelqi4188]

As a Canadian, I've been dreading the day Perun turns his gaze towards us. Let the roast begin

[@iivin4233]

I always assumed you guys were doing okay. That's what I get for having one book on you guys, research circa WW2.

[@sickbozo8152]

trudeau-cul

[@Caniewaak]

I don't know how harsh he'll be, but I'm certain it will probably be almost as bad as we deserve

[@dmacpher]

@@iivin4233our defence spending dropped to below 1% of GDP about a decade ago. It’s only now returned to a planned 1.6% with a credible chance at 2% with the new sub announcement

[@15degreepitch18]

The first step to fixing failure is recognizing its happening in the first place. I, for one, hope that people put these procurement failures on blast even more in the next couple of years so more people are aware of them

[@hans953]

* Perun does a video on Canada * * Me, a Belgian, exhales from relief. * * Perun * 'Don't worry, I'll get to Belgium eventually' 😬

[@americanpatriot4227]

Belgium ? What is a Belgium? Ohh that is right another NATO member who has failed to live up to the Treaty for Decades.... all while depending on the US to defend them and maintain the freedom of Navigation you all rely on. All the while trashing the US and conservatives in particular. Belgium? Who has made Hundreds of BILLIONS hosting NATO? SORRY now that we have a Candidate and populace that is starting to say ENOUGH... If they are going to be backstabbing, freeloaders... then Time to END or change NATO. RELIEF ? I will feel Relief when we are done with you, US needs to say if you and others get into a real jam.... No AID, NO help, NO Support --- Just Sorry for your luck. Frankly if you wont provide for a common defense....I could care less if your invaded, bombed and would vote to provide NO Assistance what so ever. ENOUGH is ENOUGH. Either start voting for leaders that will help the Free world defend itself, or stand alone.

[@dmacpher]

Lol

[@deamon002]

It'll be interesting to see if you're getting the blowtorch before it's the turn of us swamp Germans to your north. God knows we stripped our military to the bone over the last decade and a half.

[@isaiahsmith6016]

You were asking for it, big fella. You have no one to blame but yourself.

[@pontimin4173]

And UK hopefully.

[@Thiccron]

As a Canadian I'd just like to say sorry about all this

[@ianmastin]

And everything else... even if its not your fault... this is not an admission of guilt.

[@brandonhultgren5776]

Underrated comment.

[@Canada-_]

Ya we suck at this eh, sorry everyone.

[@GrigoriZhukov]

Eh, it happens.

[@Uncle_Neil]

From a yank, we love you guys, but....damn.

[@jessemelnyck3429]

As a retired Canadian log officer I absolutely can verify that perun's description of events is accurate. If not significantly worse. At this point the only real fix is to basically rewrite the entire procurement and recruitment policy. Buy off the shelf from other nato allies literally every single piece of equipment our force needs. Rebuild every base, training facility logistic support structure from ground up. Invest in and build all the manufacturing that canada needs to replace all the kit it just purchased elsewhere, preferably with something like the Korean Poland K2 plan. Then have all political parties sign onto legislation that pays for everything with pre-approved spending over the next 30 years, that subsequent governments are not able to cancel. So basically start from scratch.

[@DamienAlexander-Ducroix]

Get a lot of Ukrainian consultants post-Ukraine War. Their martial expertise is invaluable.

[@HaloFTW55]

Meanwhile all our stuff is NS, but we have to joke that NS really stands for "New Supply".

[@davidgoodnow269]

I can offer a suggestion to reduce those costs. (1) Instead of _owning_ tanks, have other countries _lend_ you theirs. Ideally, a minimum of a battalion in number; Abrams from American storage facilities, Challengers from British hulls (two-thirds of Britain's Challengers are scrap), and Leopard 2s from a rota of countries. What most of those countries get out of providing these _gratis_ would be fully-maintained and worked-in tanks that they have been skimping on, and fully-capable, highly-trained Canadian tankies if anything kicks off anywhere. This might be a company of each, and might even be augmented by company-size numbers of "surplus" latest-variant T-series tanks from a certain available source! (2) The U.S. Navy has found it necessary to maintain and upgrade its F-18 and Marine Corps F/A-18 squadrons, because the F-35 is simply not mission-capable. The U.S. Navy might be convinced to bankroll an F/A-18EX R&D; the F-22 was developed using the F-15 as a test-bed for many technologies, and many of those have made their way to the F-15EX (though far from all). The F-15EX is supposed to lead F-35 squadrons with its radar and be the Strike Eagle, ground-attack, component of any forced entry. The F-18 just gained a new capability as an Electronic Warfare "Growler," in U.S. naval service. Bombardier, if McDonall-Douglass isn't up to building new, could certainly receive tech packages and set-up production of needed components for the RCAF _and_ the USN _and_ the USMC, and other foreign users of the F-18 and F/A-18, and Canada gets jobs, investment, and the headaches of maintaining security! I can't imagine a fix for the Canadian Navy, other than perhaps transferring all of its personnel and assets to the Canadian Coast Guard, then rebuilding something effective by buying overseas on "no change" contract. It's really sad when a "naval" vessel doesn't even have an all-targets (boat, plane, missile) capable SHORAD system, whether that be a 20mm Phalanx, or an Otto-Mellara 76.

[@singularityraptor4022]

Like thats gonna ever happen.

[@thekinginyellow1744]

Gosh, if only democracies worked like that.

[@agong802]

As someone who has sailed most platforms in canadian inventory both above and below the water I just want to shout out how absolutely punishing this was to listen to. It was extremelyuncompromising but fair to the canadian context and really brought to light the political and defence economic issues with our procurement program. The sad part is going towards another election where no major political party has a clear platform that even aknowledges the scope of these issues yet alone promises to address it effectively. I think I may reccommend this to some of my junior officers as a primer on why our navy is the way it is.

[@malcolm5514]

Ya, I mean judging by the video, both the 10 years of Harper and now almost 10 years of Trudeau have screwed us procurement wise. Both governments seemed fine with being robbed of billions of dollars by the military industry.

[@_Addi_]

As a Canadian, I almost dont want to hear how depressing of a state our military is in. I already know a bit, and I dont like it. But, its a Perun video, so I cant skip. Here I go...

[@majororgans]

Oh god same. Time to bite down on a stick and get through this video.

[@lordAvatar]

22:15 Issues and shortfalls. Just skip right to the suck.

[@clobberella]

It was already pretty bad when I got out in 2005, but at least we still had SPGs. Now it worse

[@GrigoriZhukov]

Here( puts a little coffee in a mug full of maple syrup), it's not as bad as the boondoggle in your neighbors case.

[@grumpymunchkin2959]

I’m with you my fellow Canuck. I read the thumbnail and a feeling of embarrassment and shame washed over me.

[@XYZ-zn6qz]

As a German I just want to say thank you to our Canadian friends for having even worse procurement than us. You‘re making us look at least a little better in comparison and we really need that🇩🇪❤🇨🇦

[@distracted-dad]

... you're welcome?

[@brookechang4942]

As a Canadian in a relationship with a German, bitte. XD

[@marco21274]

I can only second that. I really hope you don't have the problem of 'russias friends' too?

[@americanpatriot4227]

Better? LOL BETTER than the other NATO members who have failed to live up to the Treaty for Decades.... all while depending on the US to defend them and maintain the freedom of Navigation you all rely on. All the while trashing the US and conservatives in particular. BETTER? LOL sure, the CLAP is better than getting Cancer.... but not much. Now that we have a Candidate and populace that is starting to say ENOUGH... If they are going to be backstabbing, freeloaders... then Time to END or change NATO. NOW your talking about doing "BETTER" that is the real truth, you know it, I know it, we all know it. And Germany ? Your in the top 4 worst Allies in that category. ****BETTER***** is what the US needs to say if you and others get into a real jam.... No AID, NO help, NO Support --- Just, "Hey, Hope it gets Better" at this point I could care less if your invaded, bombed and would vote to provide NO Assistance what so ever. ENOUGH is ENOUGH. Either start voting for leaders that will help the Free world defend itself, or stand alone. That is how you get "better".

[@nicholasrckent8609]

Yer welcome?

[@Cobrajr122]

As a Canadian in the CAF, don't be sorry for hitting us hard, we know our system is broken and we need more of the public to know about it and pressure the government to fix it. Keep up the good work.

[@LD-Orbs]

You hit the nail on the head. The Canadian public - Anglo and French, immigrant and old line - needs to demand a strong military. That kind of support was doable in the 40s, even including French objections. Now? Not so much.

[@d.thorpe2046]

@@LD-Orbs How about the opposite? The Canadian public needs to demand we stop wasting money on a useless military.

[@philbrisby5756]

the issues have been perpetuated by both the federal libs and cons , the public need to start caring its the only thing that will make Ottawa actually do something.

[@Gyrant]

@@jlzmirvisethak Perun covered this in the video. We shouldn't rely on the US for our territorial defence, and with them apparently one presidential election away from pulling out of NATO, it's not even clear that we can. It was never prudent or right to expect them to pay to protect the whole free world, and now we're in a situation where it credibly looks like NATO and the EU might need to be able to go it alone against Russia with limited or no American support. If that's to be possible, Canada has to pull its weight.

[@MisterPerson-fk1tx]

​@@jlzmirvisethakand that's the key. The one thing we should be doing is ignored and minimized. Should be a no brainer to have developed nuclear subs to protect arctic sovereignty. But fine whatever, let the Yankees and Ruskies play their games on our territory. Why not invite the Chinese while we're at it.

[@Hamsteak]

As a Canadian Veteran that fought in the Afghan war, thank you for making the video. My country needs to take the military and our geo-strategic area with the Arctic seriously. We had a long peace dividend, but things are going to get much more heated in the Arctic very soon, probably around 2027.

[@live_free_or_perish]

Don't understand why Canadians don't see that. It's not some conflict far away, it's right there on their on their border. Both Russia and China are growing their presence in the Arctic. Does not look good 😕

[@johnnykrauze]

They can just let a few more million immigrants in. That is their priority.

[@GiantEnemyMudcrabz]

@@live_free_or_perish We do, our politicians don't. Too busy funnelling procurement money to their buddies.

[@DrTssha]

@@live_free_or_perish I think it's a cultural thing. We see those conflicts as "over there" like the Americans do, but unlike the Americans we see ourselves as a country not needing much of a military (or capable of furnishing one). The bracketed assumption is disproven with our output in WW2, but that's WW2. We also had distance and time to build up capacity. The former is definitely something to overcome, and likely possible thanks to the war in Ukraine, as long as we don't just think of it as an "over there" problem. Sadly, there's no political will for it, and the opposition party is too busy benefiting from Russia's disinformation efforts to see them as any kind of threat. I'll just have to hope our current government develops an appetite for tackling this decades old problem in light of the war in Ukraine...and let's just say I'm not optimistic...

[@irystocrattakodachithatmooms]

@@DrTssha People also like to bury their heads in the sand and deny there being threats until it's too late.

[@geoffreybruce8180]

I served in the Canadian Armed Forces in the 80’s and 90’s. A common mantra was “we’ve done so much with so little for so long, we can almost anything with nothing at all.”

[@mangalores-x_x]

Canadian government: "We are sorry." Perun: "will you do something about it?" Canadian government: "Nope. We said we are sorry."

[@YanickaQuilt]

Government, we close the doors on sinking boats and then call it a submarine......what more should we do ??

[@gregory-of-tours]

Good distillation of how our establishment actually acts. Canadian politeness has become so twisted that a lot of Canadians seem to have forgotten that you need to do more than just say sorry.

[@williamyoung9401]

It's okay. "Canada has the latest military technology, like the Leopard 2 A-4," lol. 🤠

[@dodo3197]

Not government, governmentS, as in more than one. The Canadian Defence Strategy he quoted is from 1987, reporting a quarter century of under investment at that point. I looked up our past parliaments, and it's nothing but Conservative or Liberal majorities and minorities. It might indicate a shared culture in both parties.

[@Jaeger62]

You know the situation is bad when you're 2 mins in the video and Perun is already talking about a sequel.

[@MisterPerson-fk1tx]

We're a silly people, it should be at least a trilogy.

[@masterchief7301]

You know it is extra bad when he says afterward that there are parts that he won't go into because he wants to be able to work in Canada...

[@Azuvector]

@@masterchief7301 Yeah, government sorts don't like being openly called thieves. Especially by someone who lays the books out while doing so.

[@singularityraptor4022]

@@masterchief7301 Well understandably Perun doesnt wanna be classified as part of a foreign interference network for doing a sequel to this video.

[@williamyoung9401]

It's a good thing Canada is at peace... 😴

[@race_addict]

Oh dear... you know things aren't going well when Perun makes a video on us.

[@SnowmanTF2]

and can not even fit it all branches into one episode

[@darrelgustafson2507]

It could probably be a 16 episode mini-series.

[@jakegarvin7634]

We all knew this day was coming, but it still stings...

[@MaximumEfficiency]

Canada isn't even a sovereign country.

[@Andy_M.S.c]

@@MaximumEfficiency whar

[@worldsokayestcatdad6798]

PERUN! I am Canadian and an ex serving member. I knew of some issues and problems firsthand, but it took me THREE ATTEMPTS to watch this video because you had me RAGE QUITTING! I am ... so angry at our officials and leadership ... soooo ashamed of what has become of our military spending ... UGH. Thank you so much, this was ... eye opening if not world shatterring.

[@paullakowski2509]

Needless to say we were all shocked! I knew things were bad , but not ''an order of magnitude more expensive'' BAD! OK so the argument always WAS, If we are going to have to get new ''kit''...IT SHOULD AT LEAST BE MADE HERE , TO SIMULATE THE ECONOMY BLAH BLAH. Just like the ''Not Invented Here'' clause that seems to always dog AMERICAN military expenditures. That was ALWAYS the argument for this process in the past to avoid buying everything from AMERICA. But buying from Germany, Norway or some other allies , certainly avoids that...but the bureaucracy that demands Canadian Content in the design , Stinks of GRAFT & CORRUPTION. No one can be happy about this process that results in taxpayer dollars paying 10-12 times as much for a replacement weapons! Do our LEOPARD tanks have multilingual signage on the buttons in the Fire control System?

[@onezerotwo]

an interesting note about the WW1 recruitment statistic I always like to bring up - Canada had 8 million people in 1911, something like 55% were under 30 at that time. So 4.2 million, half of which are men, 2.1 million, and half of those were children, so 1.05 million… and we sent 600,000 men to fight, almost 60% of the available volunteer population went over seas. If you meet a Canadian today whose family was here before 1900, they have dead relatives from that era, both my great-grandfathers volunteered and both were horrifically wounded. I lost half a dozen great-uncles and half a dozen cousins as well. The casualty numbers were, if I recall, something like 90,000 - but there was no tracking of shellshock, and the estimate now is something like 200-300k men came back in a box, on a crutches, or with a hole in their psyches. Our nation was solidified by WW1 in the same way WW2 really united the USA, but we were also ravaged by the experience.

[@mykeprior3436]

Their pay doesn't justify peacetime still. They are being trained, supported, fed, barracksed. It's the perfect single mans' job. Have to convince them to move on to the private sector and not hog a chair which is just adding bureaucracy.

[@daviddrake806]

Sorry to hear that’s about as brutal as it gets for volunteers…I come from the Volunteer state of Tennessee so we have a hang up about it. Seems a bunch of guys wanted to go die in Mexico/Texas/Alamo etc. Do u think it’s the romantic ideal that causes so many to volunteer even knowing it’s going to be bad? I’ve always suspected some sort of need to prove one’s self worthy as a smaller team member, or it’s just baked into the national thinking this is obligation you have as a Canadian/royal services/commonwealth… So what & why there is such a tendency to go fight and die in what is usually some other country’s conflict? And then why so many bureaucrats doing multiple project management procurement over manage it as part of being again over and over things? I thought the US is bad. I heard Italy legal system is the worse, but the comments I’ve read make it sound like Canada may have taken the cake on over doing the government caused red tape…

[@tarazieminek1947]

​​@@daviddrake806 They "volunteer"-ed because they were basically shamed into it by others in the town whose family members were already fighting. And I believe the people who were drafted rather than volunteering also got the worst of the worst jobs, so you could take a gamble and hope that volunteering would give you a bit of direction to avoid the worst situations.

[@jonathanryan9946]

Wow, I didn't know you could roast a country in a frozen tundra that badly.

[@TheEDFLegacy]

It's okay, we're doing plenty fine roasting our own military as it is. 😅

[@jamesj5486]

The extra warmth is welcome

[@alexv3357]

Haven't you seen all the forest fires the last few years? Canada's a veritable tinderbox these days

[@OperationDarkside]

Perun is a procurement expert. He must have found a 3.4 GW electric grill that's entirely powered by hydro-electric dams.

[@dmacpher]

@@jonathanryan9946 I see what you did there, well played

[@venanziadorromatagni1641]

“Our Defense strategy relies on being nice, how can we implement that?” - “If we remove most of the weapons from our ships, they look a lot more friendly” - “Mission accomplished!”

[@JozefLucifugeKorzeniowski]

i have zero idea where canada's stereotype of niceness comes from. i've travelled all over both the US and canada and lived in states sharing a border with canada most of my life and people on one side of the border don't seem especially more friendly than people on the other side of the border. i can point to spots on either side where people seem incredibly unfriendly, in canada's case; based on prejudice against what side of the border i originate from. which, relative to the sum total of my experiences, just says "there are a-hole people wherever you go and if it wasn't the fact that i'm a foreigner they would have some other reason for being a jerk"

[@venanziadorromatagni1641]

@@JozefLucifugeKorzeniowskiI could say this proves the Canadian commitment to their PR, but I’m not sure you understand tongue-in-cheek comments in general…

[@RyTrapp0]

@@JozefLucifugeKorzeniowski While I can't say whether or not Canadians live up to the stereotype - I can say that, the further north you go in the US, the more attitude you get. I'm pretty sure it's the damn winters, it just makes us all talk shit to each other because we're so miserable😂

[@klaykid117]

As someone who lives here, it seems our reputation for friendliness comes partly from our instinctual and meaningless "Sorry" when you have bumped into or even just gotten into the personal space of someone and that is usually combined with the usual North American style of friendliness where where we're able to have a friendly conversation with strangers which leads to that reputation among Europeans who typically mind their own business and from my experience if they bump into someone on the street will just not say anything and both keep moving on

[@JozefLucifugeKorzeniowski]

a globe spanning stereotype is nigh impossible to concoct and maintain from nothing in the modern era. i simply wish to know where, when, and from whence the idea sprung forth.

[@troyelliott1063]

@PerunAU One thing to point out is that Canada spending 1.4% of its GDP on defence is a sleight of hand. The Canadian government includes veteran pensions and benefits to this figure. According to our parliamentary committee on defence, actual military spending amounts to only .9% of GDP. In addition to this, our coast guard is not an armed force which is why its budget isn’t included in Canada’s defence spending figures. Lastly, as meagre as our defence budget is, we lack the capacity to spend what little we have allocated to procurement and as a result, successive governments have clawed back billions in unspent procurement funds.

[@canadianeh4792]

Note that the "pensions" don't exist as such anymore, it's a lump sum payment or that same lump sum divided monthly over the lifetime of the soldier at 0% interest, and the "benefits" are mostly jobs programs for progressive social workers that treat veterans with condescension and contempt.

[@philbrisby5756]

It gets worse, part of that .9% goes towards funding the Canadian cadet program, which is a solid youth development program and the largest such program in the country, but it isnt part of the fighting arm and neither are the thousands of officers who are non combatants who run the program.

[@troyelliott1063]

@@philbrisby5756 very good point

[@davidgoodnow269]

Procure some freaking _housing_ for enlisted serving soldiers _might be wise._ There's always a constant push in the U.S.A. to close military bases and sell the land to housing development . . . take a reverse approach and _develop land_ as housing developments _under military use!_ Properly managed (avoiding things like water contamination that the U.S. military loves to exemplify), the land and roads and sewer, water, and electricity infrastructure will still be commercially desirable in twenty or fifty years.

[@MelioraCogito]

@@davidgoodnow269 The GoC closed a shitload of Canadian Forces Bases (CFBs) in the mid 1990s after the dissolution of the Warsaw Pact and the collapse of the Soviet Union. In the west, 3PPCLI was moved out of Workpoint Barracks (CFB Esquimalt) in Victoria, to CFB Edmonton (Steele Barracks); Currie and Sarcee Barracks (CFB Calgary) were closed (the lands sold off to the private sector) with 1PPCLI, Lord Strathcona's Horse (RC), 1 Svc Bn and 1CMBG Bde HQ and its supporting elements also moved to CFB Edmonton; 1CER moved was from CFB Chilliwack to Edmonton with the Canadian Forces School of Military Engineering (CFSME) which was also located there, being moved to CFB Gagetown (NB); and lastly, in 2004, 2PPCLI was moved out of Kapyong Barracks (CFB Winnipeg) to CFB Shilo (Brandon, Man) where 1 Royal Canadian Horse Artillery Regt (1RCHA) has been located since the 1950s, if not earlier. A handful of smaller auxiliary/support facilities throughout western Canada were also closed during that period. The cost in procuring land to open new facilities would be astronomical. It's cheaper to provide good pay to those who choose to make a career in the forces, than provide quarters for basic trained members and Jr Non-Commissioned Members (JrNCMs) (on most bases, quarters are available to the lowest ranks until they can rank-up, increase their qualifications training and in so doing, raise their pay-grades). Notwithstanding, the starting salary for a basic trained Aviator/Private/Sailor 3rd Class is ~43k$, with salary increases to 63k$ annually in your 3rd year of service, without any speciality qualifications. Rank-up to Corporal (Cpl)/Sailor 1st Class and your salary increases to between 73k$-92k$ annually, depending on your specially qualifications. (Qualify as a Search and Rescue Technician (SAR Tech), at this rank, and your starting salary begins at ~121k$ annually.) Rank-up again to Master Corporal (MCpl)/Master Sailor and your pay range becomes ~76k$-95k$. (MCpl SAR Tech starts at ~124k$) Once you rank-up to Sr Non-Commissioned Member (SrNCM) level (Sgt/PO2; WO/PO1; MWO/CPO2; and CWO/CPO1), 6-figure annual salaries become the norm. The current pay rates are available for review online at the GoC's website (Google “military pay canada”).

[@kentmacrae1696]

Great article. I'm Canadian and have watched the CAF's slow motion decline from inside my Regiment. Everything you say is accurate and deserved.

[@tdb7992]

It’s so common for us Aussies to look at Canada as just being a cold version of us. Clearly we are very different at procurement though. Our gov has been burning through cash, especially on the new nuclear submarine project. I imagine the US views Canada in the same way we view New Zealand - expecting assistance whilst really not wanting to spend any money.

[@davidgoodnow269]

It's not even that Canada doesn't spend money, it's how it spends it. If it actually _wanted_ an ice-breaking patrol ship, those _exist!_ Just buy the blueprints, review for safety, maybe there's some back-and-forth on how things are working out in service, and *build it* on a no-change contract to avoid mission creep and bureaucracy! Five or ten years later, it's going to need a full maintenance refit _anyway,_ so implement minor constructive changes _then!_ I can't blame Australians for being pissed at the nuclear-powered submarine debacle, but at least that's a _very_ legitimate purchase! (Australia really needs at least one squadron of nuclear, long-endurance, submarines, and a minimum of three squadrons of coastal patrol subs equal to anything any of the Baltic countries or France field, as reconnaissance and coastal surveillance for security.)

[@russe19642]

​@@davidgoodnow269remember most of that wasteful spending wasn't your current government

[@russe19642]

​@@davidgoodnow269Paul Keating, legend

[@Azuvector]

@@russe19642 It's been an ongoing issue for decades and multiple governments.

[@russe19642]

@@Azuvector if I base it on how the conservatives here in Australia do deals,there's a lot of dodgy stuff going on that includes their mates to gets sling somehow, without any inquiries of submissions. Where as Labor who work on submissions and covering all aspects take a more conservative approach which is ironic

[@TheRealHungryHobo]

All you have to do is cite the NUMBER of articles in the news about one/a group of Canadian soldiers facing homelessness after re-deployment, and you will understand why Canadas army has a recruitment problem. They don't pay enough, and don't pay lodging. If you get stationed in the middle of nowhere, it's fine. If you get stationed in a major city, like most people will be, you're homeless. Imagine all the joys of being in the army and having a full time job, and also not having a place to live... Why would anyone do that? Give soldiers 3 hots and a cot and people will start lining up out the door (which is another condemnation of our society in and of itself, but still)

[@batboy555]

They don't pay lodging?

[@TheRealHungryHobo]

​@@batboy555 As in they won't pay for your rent, and they don't have enough beds for everyone at the (rat filled moldy) barracks. So if you get sent to say, Ottawa where the average monthly rent for a 1 bedroom is $2000 you can be put in a situation where you have a choice - quit the army and find a job where you're currently at, or move to a city you can't afford to live in and somehow try to be a full-time soldier without a place to live. Again, just the sheer number of articles about the topic, soldiers dropping out because they can't afford to not be homeless... If it was a one off thing, whatever, but it's a systemic issue. Then we can get into the cronyism, and the absurd officer counts, it's real bad. Real real bad.

[@batboy555]

@@TheRealHungryHobo that's your first problem

[@PerciusLive]

​@TheRealHungryHobo last i knew of was just about pandemic time when I tried to apply and the calculation was just under 2k sitting around 1.3-1.5k starting iirc. A bunch of stuff already deducted with about 500 for housing or smthn. Might be less. The pay scale is also pretty poor as you don't get much out of it for every year and idk about reenlistment stuff either.

[@patrickjordan2233]

"Housing" and "living conditions" have generally been a notable for thousands of years...? Sounds like a way to decimate a national defense perspective....

[@brookechang4942]

Another problem we have is that a significant portion of the RCAF flies south every winter.

[@kamui004]

Do they honk?

[@brookechang4942]

@@kamui004 Yeah, and they crap on everything. They're the RCAF's bomber force.

[@trevorjrooney]

It's strange the Canadian government let's a large portion of this bomber force fly down and bomb the US every winter. Also strange we haven't taken more drastic steps, but maybe we learned from Australia.

[@JMM33RanMA]

Those vicious, noisy, arrogant, illegal immigrants! Canadian people are fine, but those damned geese!!

[@coolhand3328]

I'm not making fun of you or your country, but that comment was absolutely hilarious. I almost choked on my coffee. :)

[@karlgrimm3027]

Pretty sure that Canada’s defense strategy is just a piece of paper with “Call America For Help “ written on it.

[@batboy555]

Pretty much

[@tristanridley1601]

Not even necessary. We just coast on our... Coast. Our geographic position means only a global power or the USA could attack us. Our pathetic navy is still able to handle anything North Korea could get to us. So... It's ONLY Russia and China. And for those we have a lot of allies and a very, very bad logistical connection to their homeland.

[@americanpatriot4227]

SORRY - That phone is disconnected..... Sorry for your luck.

[@catc8927]

We ‘muricans are happy to help. Poor Canada has to put up with our utter insanity and chaos next door, the very least we could do is scare off their bullies.

[@catc8927]

It’s the least we ‘muricans could do, they have to live with our chaos downstairs after all.

[@charlesraine8005]

Canadian army officer here. It hurts, how correct you are. Thank you for the fair treatment, you left a lot of the table for a second video.

[@ropable]

As an Aussie, I'd love to pile onto this video but I'm also very aware that we've had our own problems in this area. I'm only sorry that Perun had to rule out speaking about the Australian defence industry.

[@MHalblaub]

May I just mention the Collins-Class-Replacement submarine?

[@glennsimpson7659]

Canadian defence procurement exists to make Australia look good

[@brookechang4942]

Man, the JSS originally being a German design (which presumably went through the German procurement process) is just the icing on the cake. We looked at the Germans and were like "hold our maple syrup".

[@HingerlAlois]

I don’t think that Germany had any problems during the procurement of its Berlin class.

[@Hawk2phreak]

Im a Canadian combat vet who worked in various commands and in various rolls. One being procurement. Procurement in Canada is a long standing issue that is reflective of the overall government approach. Highly bureaucratic with later upon layer of oversight that largely doesn't do anything but slow a project down. When you compare the CAF to a country like Israel who can turn a major cap procurement in 6 months. We are fossilized donky shit. On the military side of things we have become far too disconnected from the demands of the job. We hold working groups that largely ignore the feedback of the user base on essentially anything. The ruck sack? The user feedback was completely ignored. The boot program was a black pit of money. The Globe masters we didn't have big enough hangers for, the tanks we didn't have big enough doors for. The artic patrol ships that can't patrol the arctic. Our military is a joke at the moment and it hurts me to say that.

[@maghambor]

I feel sorry for you man. This sucks.

[@williamlavallee8916]

Absolutely right and over my 22 yr career it only ever got worse. The only way to make acquisitions is to bend bend bend the rules and big acquisitions are nearly impossible. Meaning the government can freely budget funds and know they will never have to pay.

[@keithbell6866]

Agreed. I did a full 35 years, starting in the infantry, then going Airforce. Worked on F18 in Cold Lake for 8 years before transitioning over to Sea Kings for 12 years. Sailed on 6 different ships for most of that time as part of Air Dets. Then off to Borden to teach for a while then finish off my career. I saw everything go downhill while the politicians and senior officers lied to everyone about damn near everything. The only thing is, all of us older guys saw through it and could not do anything to fight it effectively as our insights and opinions were not in line with the current political flavour of the month.

[@badgerius1]

Working on a Prov. Gov't software project going sideways in new and exciting ways, our manta was: "We're still better than Phoenix."

[@Hawk2phreak]

@badgerius1 Hahaha you know it's bad when you are using Pheonix as your benchmark. I had friends who were not paid for an entire summer. How we function as a country is kind of impressive really 😂

[@linus11vf1j]

I'm glad Perun has done this episode and even mentions repeatedly that he NEEDs to be brief in order to not bloat the episode. It's very indicative of just how serious and complex the problems are in Canada's defense strategy. It almost sounds like a whole series could be made just on Canadian defense issues, and I'd watch ALL of it.

[@justinbowen4193]

I'd love to see a series to learn just how messed up Canadian defence is, and I'm a Canadian.

[@jeremygibbs7342]

@@linus11vf1j Same. With the hope we can start creating ways to fix this mess

[@littlekong7685]

@@jeremygibbs7342 The basic answer is: Stop using Quebec mob owned contractors, stop letting the conservatives jump onto committees and demand expensive, lengthy consultations on stupid things like the colour of the floor mats, and let the military deign the procurement plans not the family that owns all of the shipping rights in Ontario.

[@davidgoodnow269]

Me too. Gotta join Perun's contributors so that I have a vote towards that.

[@tedzaleschook]

Another Canadian here. Thank you for this, We needed it, and please do a part two. Or 3. Lord knows ye publik here in Canada needs to see this, and us Canucks can share it. We are so badly served by our recent governments and our soldiers are such wonderful people asked to do so much with so very little. I think much of the respect our troops get from other nations in the know is based upon how much we get done given what dont have to work with.

[@geoffreywallington2930]

As depressing as this was, you should absolutely do another episode on Canada. A great example on what not to do in procurement. Another example, Canada is trying to replace its large naval tugboats. Yes, tugboats. Last I heard the design had gone through over 400, that's FOUR HUNDRED, engineering changes. I am not sure of the history of the program or its costs, so maybe a little digging is required. And while we may be learning our lessons, with the navy saying the 12 new submarines will be absolutely a MOTS purchase, I can only cross my fingers that it does not follow the Norway ice breaker path of changing a proven design. Shortly after the CPSP will be the Multi Mission Corvette project .... where we will likely pay Ferrari prices for Toyota Tercels

[@Decimus87]

I'm Canadian... and I support this message.

[@Walgriff]

Same

[@slider292]

I (an American) went to grad school in Canada, lived in Vancouver for 5 years, etc. In my experience, there is a very significant minority (> 40%) that understand and own the issues highlighted in the video. Unfortunately, there are just a few more that are utterly clueless and, unfortunately, have the means to keep winning elections. Here's hoping things will change once they've had enough of Trudeau!

[@noize8148]

@@slider292 Spoiler! They will not. None of the party leaders have committed to making significant changes to any of the issues listed in this video, and the conservatives state they will cut the military budget even further.

[@russe19642]

As an Aussie, can I come out now?

[@Decimus87]

@@slider292 he must go. I hope the military and the procurement processes get overhauled.

[@AHDBification]

At around 58:00... Jesus, they're getting close to nuclear carrier costs and getting two coast guard boats. Gotta be a lotta graft here.

[@NewfieOn2Wheels]

the national ship building strategy is basically just a funnel in which tax dollars are dumped and the irving family is the beneficiary.

[@pRahvi0]

@@NewfieOn2Wheels While Perun never stated that outloud, that's very much the picture I got from that. Way too many similarities with Russian procurement failures to ignore massive corruption as an explanation.

[@dabluntz19]

@@NewfieOn2Wheelsnot disagreeing with but just pointing out,the heavy icebreakers are being built by non-Irving shipyards.

[@Viper607706]

​@@dabluntz19 aye but those 250m went somewhere

[@kevinw2592]

Part of the problem was they had to rebuild the shipbuilding industry from the ground up.

[@ElijsDima]

On a strategic level, the Canadians are underestimating the elephant in the room - Denmark, which is well situated to link up with the US to start a full canadian annexation from the northeast down.

[@normtrooper4392]

The long awaited viking invasion

[@chriskola3822]

I for one welcome our new Viking overlords.

[@dmacpher]

Not like they didn’t *discover* Canada a few centuries before everyone else 😂

[@patrickjordan2233]

🤣😂🤣😂 ♥️ The Humor in this thread...

[@CatFish107]

​@chriskola3822 If it came down to a choice of being a Dane or a Yank, it's no choice. Who has gov paid health care?

[@NTabb]

I spent 25 years in the Royal Canadian Air Force and currently work for a defence contractor. I am among the many, many thousands of Canadians in the defence business who cannot defend or explain the decisions and actions of successive Canadian governments (plural) when it comes to defence, particularly in ship building. It is, in a word, disgraceful. However, I must take exception to the comparison/conclusion drawn at 1:00:21 as it is misleading. Defence project budgets, like the one stated in the screen grab, include support costs for the life of the program, including disposal. They cannot simply be divided by the number of ships (in this case) to come up with the acquisition cost per unit. Otherwise, every criticism is well and truly deserved.

[@ArmouredPhalanx]

As a Canadian who follows domestic procurement relatively closely (for someone not in the military or defence industry, anyway), this was a good, and entirely fair and even-handed overview of the issues. As you noted, though it's pretty shallow and there are a myriad of factors that go into it going back over 200 years to pre-confederation days. Would happily watch any follow ups or in-depth explainers, but not sure how interesting those things would be for the non-Canadian audience.

[@KtS-g3g]

As an American, a more detailed deep dive would be fascinating.

[@glennsimpson7659]

As an Australian, I concur. Before I watched this video, I thought Canadian defence procurement was very poor. Now I know it is far worse. And Peru didn’t even mention the maritime patrol plane debacle or the F35 acquisition merry-go-round.

[@PandemoniumMeltDown]

CDN military PR?

[@15degreepitch18]

One big reason I can see for the low recruitment rates is that, at least where I live in Canada, there are a lot of people that see the military as a "dirty job". Coupled with a few high-profile misconduct cases in the armed forces in the past few years and better benefits in the civilian labor force, it isn't really a surprise to me that the military is in the state it is.

Couldn't they raise pay? Or offer a military service based path the citizenship for qualified foreigners?

[@ElijsDima]

Dirty as like low-paid low-respect, or dirty as in corrupt?

[@mikeyallen-yk4ol]

@@ElijsDima Dirty as in low-paid, low-respect and little prestige and no real role the public can think of for the military.

[@Lord_Foxy13]

And they don't even have new fun toys to play with

[@LN997-i8x]

The bigger problem is that the CF sold off their barracks and accommodations in the 80's and 90's. Now our housing prices are so out of control a good chunk of roles don't pay enough to cover housing in a given posting.

[@Jaqenhgar222]

It's hard to recruit for your armed forces, when stories hit the news of the Canadian VA offering euthanasia to a veteran who said they were depressed about having trouble getting a wheelchair ramp for their house.

[@kovona]

JC...🫤

[@EvilMAiq]

Holy shit I dont know whether to laugh

[@MM22966]

I WISH you were making that up.

[@canadianeh4792]

"But it was an isolated case" I have screenshots and messages in my MyVAC account that show that to be a lie.

[@Gyrant]

VAC more than deserves its own roasting, but I like Perun too much to wish upon him the crippling despair that would result from such research.

[@chrisburns4297]

As a 54 year old man with dual Canadian and British nationality, and a father who served in WW2 and a grandfather who served in WW1, I'm embarrassed as to the state of both nations.

[@johnnykrauze]

Free speech is essential

[@Uncle_Fred]

I really don't know what happened here. My only guess is that large corperations basically took control of government policy from the 1990's onwards. Funding for public services dried up. Our role as Canadians now seems to be limited to providing a cheap source of labor, renters, grocery buyers, and telcom subscribers.

[@atrlawes98]

Ah so *YOU* are the problem. Common denominator and all that.

[@Adi-bo5do]

UK still has a competent military though

[@Lawrence-lj5jz]

....thanks..um, sorry....thanks.

[@DerpsWithWolves]

I served with the Canadian army under two different diametrically opposed administrations... And they both screwed us over repeatedly. Didn't matter if it was funding for new gear, veteran's benefits, or dictating procurement policy based on political convenience - we were, at best, tertiary consideration for them at any given moment. The procurement and R&D groups also being run by people with no concept of risk management does not assist matters.

[@The_ZeroLine]

Did you at least get free maple syrup?

[@refixed]

At least the one balanced the books in the process...

[@DerpsWithWolves]

@@The_ZeroLine From a different job, actually, yes one time, but not the Army.

[@CarlAdrianJoseph]

I served in the CDN for 10 years. Knew we poor from a military capability standpoint. This video just made me more depressed about our military. We have some individuals/ families making money of what I thought was ineptitude but now realize is a much greater degree of corruption then what I once believed.

[@batboy555]

Its treason

[@darranhirose8153]

Oh Canada. I'm sorry NATO. Legally required to say that as a Canadian.

[@concept5631]

The Canadian Armed Forces has let down both NATO and the Canadian people. They need to be sorry, not you.

[@darranhirose8153]

​@@concept5631I largely don't blame the CAF as a whole, I largely blame the upper management, both civilian and military. They're forced to make do without. Even if, for the most part, most people see them out when there's flooding or a snow storm.

[@ndenise3460]

Not the CAF their overlords and generals in Ottawa.

[@mp40submachinegun81]

The Canadian Armed forces has done nothing but perform at its best with the resources its given. Theres 0 fault at all on CAF. The fault is all political. ​@concept5631

[@patrickjordan2233]

Canadian voters/residents/service personnel are only mildly @ fault... Politicians, though? 🤔🤔 "Lay the wreath at it's due doorstep" IMO

[@stormythelowcountrykitty7147]

As a former Canadian forces member well this will be interesting

[@smokythebear9711]

Not joining the CAF as an 18 year old and becoming a firefighter was the only good decision I made as a teenager. All my vet friends somehow wound up despising the government even more than the rest of us public sector employees

[@Craeshen]

@@smokythebear9711 from my few friends who are vets just the sorry state of the caf makes it tough to hold back tears for them

[@averymicrowave1713]

​@@smokythebear9711 Join the Canadian Forces! And learn to Hate our Government!

[@JMM33RanMA]

One of Canada's biggest problems appears to be gravity. Not the physical gravity, but the pull of the south for highly skilled people. Famous US movie stars-Canadian, famous US music stars-Canadian, Famous US hockey players-Canadian, famous Canadian inventors/businessmen like Alexander Graham Bell-Canadian! Heck, I have a Canadian aunt on my father's side and another on my mother's. and we're just ordinary New England Yankees!

[@smokythebear9711]

@JMM33RanMA funny enough, me and my wife also moved to the states. Currently waiting on my residency to be approved while doing paramedic school for the second time stateside since no EMS certs transfer over the border like fire certs do.

[@nickp.4995]

As someone who has been involved in several military procurement projects, the level of incompetence, dysfunction, endless delays, rescopes of specs, changing the bar for scope of the project, testing, it never ends. The last project was supposedly an off the shelf system with a 6 months turn around, 3 years later it's 100% custom, with full military specs, testing, prototypes that will take a further few years to complete, if they somehow didn't magically go so far over budget it had to be cancelled. While I'd blame some of this on defense contractors for inflating costs, the military themselves are causing their own problems.

[@ndenise3460]

I built houses to pay for school. I was on a job, the wife kept coming making changes a window here , door there, wall moved 2' etc..... Cost the boss 40k in a month. Because he didn't have signed change orders.Next month more changes but boss had clients wife sign, when he was presented an extra 100m in change fees, well let's say the next time we saw the wife was when the boss collected last payment and handed over the keys. Every blessing bureaucrat wants a change so he can stamp it and justify his paycheck. Our Halifax ships had to be redesigned for a new anchor windlass because the Quebec supplier wanted to avoid tooling up for it to increase his profit, and Ottawa signed off on it. Freeze the design and build the boats.

[@Gyrant]

Pretty much the only thing the actual military does when it comes to procurements is set the requirements, and even those have to be independently validated to make sure the CAF isn't manipulating the requirements to get the specific piece of kit they want.

[@littlekong7685]

Almost all Canadian military projects are hands off from the military. It is 99% politician driven issues, bloat, and consulting and contracting issues. Many many conservative back benchers will jump themselves onto committees just to delay a project so they can get committee pay. I recall one major event where a completed contract for armoured transports was reopened because the Harper government had several back benchers start a consult on the preferred colour of the floor mats, and this delayed it by half a year for them to finally agree with eh manufacturer spec and the ones originally included and this somehow doubled the costs.

[@nickp.4995]

@@Gyrant In a number of the contracts I've been on, the back and forth between the user group is excessive, each time the scope changes, sometimes wildly. That said, I don't deal with standard equipment, everything is very special use to start with.

[@MisdirectedSasha]

@@ndenise3460 That kind of points to another problem that Perun didn't get into: Canada's shockingly powerful provinces and the knock-on effects this has on Ottawa's relationship with any supplier who might have the ear of a provincial premier. Defense is a Federal responsibility, so the provinces have few direct incentives to care about the actual capabilities of the CAF. On the other hand, every major defense procurement is an opportunity to get a new factory opened in their province, new jobs, and new votes. This isn't exactly unique to Canada, but compared to the US, our provinces have more individual leverage over the Federal government and there's a lot less defense budget to go around.

[@anarkist2298]

From my internal (anecdotal) experience in procurement, logistics, and manufacturing within Canada's defense, from both the private sector and contracted into NATO perspective, I assure you Perun that there's no need to apologize. You nailed it, from what I've seen since the end of the 1990's and therefore did not surprise me so much as depress me. It was, however, very validating to know I haven't just been looking sideways at everything. Thanks for covering Canada, I look forward to the next segment on us, and will do the expected Canadian thing of apologizing on our behalf. :) Anyway, I've watched every video you've output on this side of the fence (as in all the non-gaming videos) and really love your perspective, analytics, and humour. Take care.

[@dodo3197]

@PerunAU, thank you for making a video on us. While I've have not been around for what now be 62 years of defence spending neglect, I can say quite assuredly that I have noticed what that looks like from inside the culture. This sample is only the people I have spoken to over my life, but the recurring trend is people my age don't care about the CAF, people older than me don't care about the CAF, it never seems to be a topic of concern during elections. I sincerely hope you make a Part 2 on us, we need the help. Adam Steiner once said... on occasion... that information is ammunition. A part 2 with examples (and references) of how our issues might be addressed is exactly the sort of ammunition we need in this situation. I know you work hard compiling information for these videos, and it is really appreciated. I've watched them all, multiple times for quite a few. So please make a part 2... eh?

[@Daemonworks]

One of the big problems with the whole naval thing is the political instance on "do it locally", which is admirable in principle, but has the basic problem that the local suppliers aren't actually full time military naval production companies being asked to take a design similar to one they already produce and make a few tweaks using their in-house military design expertise. They're civilian shipbuilders who get one-off contracts that may bear no resemblance at all to the next one-off build order. They're essentially spinning up a whole shipyard just to do that one specific build. Every bloody time. The political priority isn't /ever/ to get quality vessels in reasonable time at reasonable costs, it's to subsidise the shipyards.

[@CanadianWolverine]

Specifically elite wealthy exploitive practice (see: Oligarch) shipyards like the Irvings. They are transferring funds from public coffers to private bank accounts and calling it "procurement".

[@peterwebb8732]

It’s vote-buying at the expense of military capability - and potentially, at the expense of both servicemen and those they are tasked to protect. We in Australia have done the same thing to prop up sectors of our ship-building industry. Hopefully, AUKUS is a step in the right direction, in purchasing proven capability, off-the-shelf.

[@HaloFTW55]

The other "do it locally" issue is that contracts often just favour Eastern Provinces even if Western Canadian Provinces (just BC) has the capacity to produce military warships, sometimes it's not even subtle in how bad the favouritism is.

[@littlekong7685]

@@HaloFTW55 That is because ONE family has a total monopoly on shipyards in the east and also has members in office. They demand low quantity orders so they can charge more for changeover and changeback, we go from 15 ships built in 1 dock to 2 ships built in 4 docks somehow, the only ones that benefit from that is the shipyards.

[@PandemoniumMeltDown]

The "markup" is outright treason. Ukraine front troops get thousands of disposable German made drones per week! At 400-500USD each! The US is about to get one per infantry section at 25kUSD each! Canada can dream to have one per company, maybe in 20 years, probably 100kCAD; and if they lose it... no more drone for you! Corruption and the taste for Champagne is an addiction hard to shake off a government.

[@Ostenjager]

I was in 74th LRSD, 173rd ABCT in Helmand and Kandahar provinces of Afghanistan in 2005. At one point, we were partnered with the PPCLI recon guys. They were tooling around in Mercedes utility vehicles. I went to fill our COMSEC into their radios, so we could communicate. I was horrified to find that their radios were in the back of these vehicles, inaccessible from inside, requiring the vehicle to stop and personnel to dismount to change freqs. Nothing but respect for our Canadian brethren. Their troops truly deserve better!

[@SBoyne]

Hey, those were the new hotness. No joke. Google the VW Iltis to see what they were driving a few years before…

[@reformedjoe4907]

Yeah when I got out in 21 we were still rocking the g-wagons. A lot of old, shitty equipment like that. Hell, the hi power i was issued for carry in Iraq was made in 1944 which was cool from a historical perspective, but did not exactly inspire confidence from a practical one.

[@williamgarry2635]

As an American, I know that we have a Defense industry & Congress that can seemingly just light fire to money, but the acquisition for the ACPS from the Swalbard ship class is just ridiculous, even as a job-producing boondoggle. Canada could have SAVED money by just having Sweden build the 2 ships in their country and then just gifting the Canadian ship builder with a 50M CAD check to do nothing but hand out paychecks… It seems like a huge problem in Canada is the desire to turn the defense acquisitions as a jobs program for Canadians. While Canada may be a G7 country, it doesn’t build enough of any equipment to justify standing up new production lines for every (or seemingly anything) that it buys. It would make more sense to buy from the country that specializes in building the desired system and then negotiating for production offsets with the nation that they are buying from. Instead of building ships, just buy them from South Korea, and then negotiate for South Korea to place manufacturing contracts of a certain value with Canadian companies in exchange…

[@tristanridley1601]

You make far too much sense. You are not welcome in the military bureaucracy.

[@CanadianWolverine]

You're missing the forest through the trees, its not a "jobs program" for Canadians, its a "job 'creators'" program for those in the investor and owner class like the Irvings. Its not that there isn't the need for a job to be done by living wage trades people, its that the procurement is specifically geared to transfer wealth from public budgets to a few elite bank accounts. Irvings in particular stand out for how much they just straight up own New Brunswick (NB), from resources to processing to media to export, they have politicians by the balls all along the whole supply chain to not actually represent the interests of Canadians, let alone the citizens of NB.

[@williamgarry2635]

@tylerbarse2866, I don’t disagree with your point here. The only place where I might “quibble” with you is when it comes to certain LOW production rate procurements, like 2 supply ships, Canada doesn’t have any slack in its budget to spend money to stand up a new ship building program that will only last for ~5-6 years before it is ended IF they are going to afford the massive recapitalization that is necessary across the 3 services. For the amount of money that Canada is willing to spend compared to the size of their needs, Canada is going to need to purchase as much value for the money as possible. Canada is NOT the US and can not afford to copy the US approach to procurement. Many of these programs just don’t have the volume necessary (unless they partner with other nations for a higher total production volume). But this is where I become skeptical about the ability to pull that off in most sectors…

[@chickenfishhybrid44]

The US, at least in some cases, produces advanced tech and systems with our bloat and graft.

[@oddsends6048]

Would be cheaper to have the Poles build the S. Korean tanks for Canada.

[@JayEnfield]

Canadian economist here: Dole out the harshness, Perun. We need it.

[@EpicMother249]

I vote for the video deep dive into Canada's procurement problem. I have followed the NSS and RCAF JSF program since the late 00's. And this video had some shocking revelation for me. I will definitely be rewatching and recommending this video to fellow Canadian's Thank you, Perun

[@Darqshadow]

I'm watching this from the relative comfort of the Mitten State, and I feel bad for your servicemen and women. They deserve a lot better..

[@Akirsop]

As an American living in Canada I have been waiting for this episode with glee. Thank you for this! My wife always says Americans are terrible with how we spend our money unlike Canada. I will still be wrong in any argument because I am the husband but at least will have a good defense. Truly thank you 🎉!

[@djizomdjinn]

A good defense, unlike Canada?

[@Akirsop]

​@@djizomdjinn😂 So true!

[@concept5631]

​@@Akirsop Canada has no wife to hold it accountible

[@chrisburke624]

Your wife thinks America spends its money recklessly compared to Canada? Just how new to Canada are you? lol Good on you for recognizing that you're wrong no matter what on virtue of being male. You're far smarter than most!

[@bighulkingwar_machine1123]

good luck brother!

[@richardgray7480]

One of the really annoying things about the Canadian military budget is that money often gets allocated, but if it isn't actually spent in the same calendar fiscal year then it goes back into the general budget fund. Nuts!

[@dbul2542]

That’s wild. I work for a U.S. state government and it takes a minimum of 6 months once you get funding to hire the staff to then begin developing and implement whatever new program has been funded, which in of itself is a minimum 1 year process by law. So a minimum of 1.5 years at the absolute fastest. We couldn’t do anything with a 1-year disbursement deadline.

[@Schaden-freude]

@@dbul2542 Some would say the system purpose is what it does. If the canadian DND can't spend the money it gets, it was never supposed to spend that money.

[@deviantai_com]

That is the plan, say we are going to do it and do nothing,

[@trevornewton2646]

As a Canadian. Great job, lad! A good friend points out your flaws. Strayans are great friends to Canada.

[@russe19642]

Good,I went into hiding when I saw this😂

[@daveverwey6854]

Thank you for the excellent analysis. Previously, Canadian news agencies reported incorporated in defence expenditure figures were the ministry budget for Veteran Affairs. Perhaps those expenditures represent “life cycle costs” of uniformed personnel, it seems cheeky and creative accounting.

[@MagiconIce]

Canada seemingly has the same sickness that Germany for a long time had (and maybe still has, current status unclear), taking a standard product and ordering a bunch of specialties, that first need designing, need time and drive the price ridiculously up. In Germany we call this jokingly the "Goldrand-Lösung", the "Golden Edge Solution".

[@RatchetSly]

I briefly worked for the Halifax shipyard (not in the shipyard itself), and good lord is the place inefficient. It's not on the workers; to an extent, it isn't on the managers either. There is so much useless spending, wasted time and wasted work due to indecision and apathy from higher-ups. It really felt like the superiors are purposefully delaying projects entirely to extract more and more money out of the military.

[@gpaull2]

I’ve seen the same in the airforce side when I was working at Spar Aerospace in YEG in the 2000’s. The military division would take over 3 years to do a maintenance check in a C130. The civilian side would do the same check on a 737 in 5-6 weeks.

[@farnarkleboy]

And how else are the consultants going to get paid ?

[@ndenise3460]

The workers would do stuff like cut a foot off of massive copper wire, take home in there lunchbox and sell for scrap.then have to scrap the whole 200' because it was too short. No more cost plus BS.

[@DaHitch]

A for profit company given access to the golden goose and milking it for all it's worth? Say it isn't so. 😱

[@littlekong7685]

@@DaHitch A for profit company with an absolute monopoly on docks in the East with family at every level of political office....

[@NSGrendel]

I would fully have accepted a single Powerpoint slide that just said, "Be really nice to the USA."

[@americanpatriot4227]

I would be in favor of a power point that says "SORRY that number is disconnected.... Call someone who cares" Most of Canada and Europe dont understand how sick we in the US are of the freeloading, backstabbing "members" who wont live up to their obligations .... all while depending on the US to defend them and maintain the freedom of Navigation you all rely on. All the while trashing the US and conservatives in particular. Its time to end "be nice" or perhaps just use the phrase...when they are in a jam, invaded or bombed or have a massive disaster.... as in "It would have been nice" if you had lived up to your obligations.... sorry cant hear you. Bye Bye.

[@kintustis]

​@@americanpatriot4227the great news for Canada is that congress doesn't care how the public feels.

[@TheEDFLegacy]

​@@americanpatriot4227 I can't say you're wrong. Unfortunately, a lot of our problems are self-inflicted, and spending more money would make things worse, not better. We need to fix the fundamental problems before we can even consider reforming the military itself.

[@jack727dave5]

@@americanpatriot4227Nice rant but to be realistic, we are going to defend Canada. Any force that’s able and willing to invade Canada is one we really shouldn’t get a foothold on the North American continent.

[@VicDealio]

​@@americanpatriot4227​ American protection isn't out of kindness. The cost of protecting Canada, for example, is tiny compared to the cost of having a hostile power with a military force in those borders. Not to mention the military advantage of having bases stationed worldwide. We want bases stationed there as much or more than they do. Generally, America benefits from the western status quo, and we have a personal interest in maintaining it. That said, hopefully the uptick in allied military spending spurred by Ukraine continue.

[@DoddyIshamel]

That tanker breakdown is mind-boggling. It's not like Britain is known fir spending carefully on its ships either.

[@atrlawes98]

They’re seemingly either roaring successes or embarrassing failures. The Type 31 program is proceeding very well for example. Worth noting that the Tide Classes were considered obscenely expensive at the time..

[@russe19642]

Don't forget,it's not the current government that spent that money.

[@dogsnads5634]

@@atrlawes98 The Tide Class were categorically not seen as obscenely expensive. They were in fact seen as too cheap, particularly in comparison to the UK built Wave Class....which proved to be the case when we actually received them....they all needed additional work in UK yards to get defects rectified...turns out South Korean build quality wasn't that hot...they've turned out ok though.

[@Schaden-freude]

Aside from the high costs, the tonnage issue has more to do with infrastructure than cost cutting. The shipyards the RCN has really can't support more than 10,000 tons per ship. It's pretty funny watching half the American fleet park at the entrance of victoria or halifax since there's no space for them at the dockyards.

[@mr_seth]

From the perspective of a Canadian, thanks for doing this! Our military procurement is such a gong show. I would love a follow-up video. It could help guide me with some points to try to hammer down with our politicians. Something which I have noted in Canada is that we make many things political which shouldn't be political at all - military procurement and replacing aging municipal infrastructure, being a few examples. It seems like the countries with a brighter future than us these days just ask the experts and get it done, without politicians and bureaucratic processes getting too heavily involved.

[@Project_Future]

I served in the CAF infantry for 10 years. Wartime to peacetime. It is now in such a state that ibfear the only possible option is a COMPLETE rebuild. There is corruption, politics being played at every level, poor recruitment/ retention practises, abismal training standards and the list goes on. If you do a deeper dive into the Army, it will shock everyone whonwatches this channel and I would be happy to provide my anqdotes as a former Mcpl/Sgt. The people of my country need to know.

[@quintonlim4275]

Oh Canada...

[@MaximumEfficiency]

still a USA/UK puppet

[@NicholasMati]

Dang it. I literally had this exact comment, character for character, typed out and ready to post when it occurred to me that someone else may have posted something similar and I should probably check before duplicating comments.

[@888alphaable]

@@NicholasMati it would have been relevant. There are two 'Oh, canada's in some verses.

[@MaximumEfficiency]

@@NicholasMati :)

[@ndenise3460]

Nope, D'OH! Canada

[@ISawABear]

yup it was about time and long overdue. im gonna have to clutch my maple syrup as i watch this

[@BalthasarGelt-x2d]

Worst military production stat: Most of the maple syrup found in care packages sent to Ukraine was made in Vermont.

[@farskies5343]

It's fine. I am sure Canada will be able to buy an MPT...in 2-3 years...

[@ThatManitobaGuy]

As a Canadian, this is as damning as I expected. I try to keep up with government anouncements, military news and how it's going on the ground. This falls entirely inline with all the things I've heard and read. A large amount of why the military gets fuck all for funding is simply that too many Canadians don't think military spending is necessary since we're America's hat. So politicians either don't campaign on or bother following through on budget promises because so many voters simply don't care. There is a distinct lack of national security concern from a massive portion of voters.

[@darrena4048]

As a Canuck, I don't want to spend money on the military.... but sadly those days are over. So if we have to do it, let's at least stop embarrassing ourselves here.

[@stockdale829]

It it quite likely we will slowly increase defense spending to get closer to the 2% of GDP, especially if Trump gets in. Even if it's Harris, there will be pressure from the Premiers of our largest Proviences to spend more to stay in the good graces of hawkish elements in US congress.

[@colinwilliamson9114]

I’m Canadian, and thanks very much for doing this episode. Fixing our military will first of all require the desire of our politicians to do so. A good chunk of my career was spent doing business process re-engineering. For our military, I think I would just start with a clean piece of paper and ask the question, “What should our military be?” And that is probably not an easy question to answer.

[@Joe3pops]

202,000 kms of coastline. No surveillance drones. No strike drones. 12 minesweepers that sport only 24 machine guns! 6 brand new arctic patrol vessels. These only sport a polar bear gun and the admirals favorite: 2 machine guns! WTF Edit: Our homeland defence is pretty much dismal. Only barely okay with NORAD. Thats it.

[@mikegould6590]

As a Canadian, we are equally frustrated with how our own forces have been treated, both in equipment and veteran affairs. If our equipment matched our training, we would be the envy of many. But no. Our military are used as a political point by all sides of a dialogue without actually DOING anything.

[@LeCharles07]

You know what, I'm *not* going to skip the Ground News ad and instead come comment about how it's been a great source of news in a time where there is A LOT happening all at once.

[@neilbrown2948]

Snacks and refreshments in hand to watch Perun's take on the Canadian govt's time honored tradition of matching the age of the equipment with that of the personnel.i bobbed around on one of them for several years.

[@neshirst-ashuach1881]

"i bobbed around on one of them for several years." 😳

[@neshirst-ashuach1881]

"i bobbed around on one of them for several years" 😳

[@angelakalyta1545]

This Canadian LOVES this video. Thank you so much, lots is said about our 'military in crisis', but it's hard to understand the depth of the problems. Great summary!

[@patton3rd1]

When we, on rare occasions, seem to do it right: It's still highly contentious and has huge political fallout. The P8 Posideon purchase was an off-the-shelf, market price acquisition gone right and we still had two Premiers up in arms that we didn't opt for designing a custom, domestic aircraft.

[@georgeorwell5842]

Excellent analysis Perun. Blunt, but honest and thorough with no tap dancing around embarrassing realities. Please do a follow-up on our kafkaesque and byzantine procurement establishment. As someone who had to endure 'doing more with less' for four decades in the CAF this is exactly the kick in the pants that not only our political class but Canadians in general need. During our involvement in the Balkan war, 'while the Canadian army was at war Canadians were at the mall' During the Afghan war, Canadians started paying attention as troops came home under the flag but have since gone back to sleep. Our current government is a lost cause, but maybe the new one coming in soon will wake up if enough Canadians challenge them to watch your videos.

[@truckwrecker6822]

Don't put your money on it!!☺

[@georgeorwell5842]

@@truckwrecker6822 sure, the old 'shrug shoulders, what can you do' approach is a winner 🙄

[@treystroeder5506]

@@georgeorwell5842I mean, you can't expect PP to even attempt to fix any of the issues? I can't remember the last time the military was any sort of focus in recent memory. A lot of the more recent things are almost reactionary. Second-hand Leo 2s to replace 1960s Leopard 1s, and we spent however-much on the debacle of F-35 procurement as replacement for legacy Hornets.

[@georgeorwell5842]

@@treystroeder5506 nice rant, anything constructive to say?

[@treystroeder5506]

@@georgeorwell5842 hard for me to be constructive about this military. What about you? Going to be passive aggressive about it the entire time? As it stands, despite everything, PP is most likely going to end up being worse (Remember, we don't vote people in, we vote people *out*, here in Canada).

[@mikeromanage3696]

The saddest part is that this has/is happening over several decades, several governments from 2 different parties. I am thoroughly embarrassed about the way our governments approach defense spending or lack thereof. I have a few friends in the military and I feel so sorry for them. Great people doing great work with governments that do not care to spend the bare minimum to keep them safe and paid well.

[@JeliYYC]

There is a fundamental problem that was never mentioned is that spending on the Canadian military does not translate into votes. Hence the reluctance of any party to increase military spending. Even Pierre Polievre - almost certain to be the next prime minister - will not commit to increased military spending. The conservatives know that it won’t get them more votes. Thank you Perun for putting a spotlight on the tragic state of the Canadian armed forces which is a shameful failure of multiple governments regardless of the party. Perhaps exposes like this and pressure from NATO allies will reorient our priorities. At the very least maybe the disaster procurement process can get fixed so the forces can at least get more kit for the paltry sum we spend on our military.

[@McTeerZor]

​@@JeliYYCComminting to an increase in military spending in Canada is basically political suicide. "Why spend money on the military when big daddy USA is right next door"

[@Azuvector]

@@JeliYYC If CBC did its job, they'd be putting them on blast about this shit every other week.

[@Shadey88]

Oh Wow! I’d knew it was bad, but this bad. Thank you for putting this together. I would really like to hear more. Canada can and must do better. Winter is coming 🥶

[@olivierdemers199]

THANK YOU FOR THIS! Please make a part two, and help us fix our broken military. I long for the days we were the fourth-largest naval power, where we had large enough troop counts to actually matter on the world stage. Our nation needs to see that our glory days are ahead of us, not behind us.

[@FredVanDriel]

As a Canadian, and a federal government employee, none of what Perun says is a surprise. And I don't see it getting better any time soon.

[@salome8033]

as a gunner up here in canada- the arty sections were, um... very generous, actually, given we've got sub a dozen working m777s in the entire country as rumours go, so...

[@BygoneUser1]

As a Canadian, I'm Canadian and Canada all the time in Canada. But seriously, I think everyone here knows we've basically been phoning it in military-wise for decades now. A part of that is, like you point out, that the greatest military on the planet is our neighbour & closest ally as well as more or less the de facto leader of the NATO alliance which we are a part of, compounded by the fact that we know that, if the US did decide to annex Canada, there is next to nothing our potential budget (short of nuclear deterrence, which I hope we all agree is an imperfect solution especially in this case) could do to prevent that... Also, many Canadians seem to take pride in being primarily viewed as 'peacekeepers' rather than soldiers, albeit the distinction is a bit nuanced in a lot of cases. Regardless of any of that, it would be preferable much like in Germany's case if we could at the very least sort out or procurement issues and have more to contribute. What's more, I'm of the belief that it is the responsible thing to do to try to hit the 2% GDP expenditure target set out by NATO if we are going to continue to reap the benefits of membership; for example, as you outline in the Arctic, it's not entirely true that we have no potential credible venues for conflict.

[@leonfa259]

As a German, here it is intentional that the german army is weaker than it could be. Our Gov joined in plenty of US oversees mission that half the politicians and more of the population never really wanted to be in. If we threw out all the regulations and mobilized our industry we could have millions of men in arms, with thousands of tanks in less than 5 years. The thing is does anyone really wants us to do that? Russia is no real danger to Europe if we wanted to stop it and everyone gets uncomfortable when Germany rearms. With Canada it seems the same, the will is missing not the means.

[@tristanridley1601]

It's Americans who insist our defence strategy rests on their support. The real ally #1 is the ocean. Our isolation and geography makes it ridiculously easy to defend our country vs anyone except Americans. We went too far, but it's easy to see why 'defence strategy' gets a strange look from a Canadian.

[@Uncle_Fred]

@@tristanridley1601 The problem is, Russia exists. While it's not going to try and take and hold Arctic territory in North America, they might try a raid against Canadina settlements or bases up there. Are we prepared to repel such actions? I think not.

[@fraserfuite8816]

I am glad someone has mentioned the threat of American annexation. Seriously: if the republicans successfully establish dictatorship in the United States, and something like the Trucker Convoy happens again--and the right-wingers ask for trumps help--Trump may well move for invasion and annexation, in order to establish an ego-building legacy. Canada should scramble to make such a move as costly as possible.

[@MisdirectedSasha]

@@Uncle_Fred The problem for the Russians is that the operational radius of any conceivable military action against Canada is enormous. They could get a handful of paratroopers to an isolated Canadian settlement, sure, but then what? How do they resupply them? What political, strategic or even operational benefits would they derive from doing so? Russia could also probably occupy some of the northern islands in the Canadian arctic, or fire a few long-range cruise missiles in the general direction of one of Canada's major cities, but these actions would also fall foul of the "to what end?" test. And this is actually kind of unfortunate; if neglecting our defense carried the possibility of immediate, short-term consequences, we wouldn't do it - in the same way that the average person would remember to lock their door if their neighbor's house was burgled. The actual consequences of Canada's miserable defense policy are indirect and long term, more akin to neglecting your physical fitness. If you live in a Western country, odds are good that your life will never depend on your ability to win a fist fight or a running race, so sitting on the couch all day has few immediate consequences. But over time, your life will probably get worse as your health declines and opportunities that require a baseline of physical fitness are closed to you. The latter slow decline into malaise is what Canada faces.

[@Sperer]

Don't know if someone already posted this but several ski resorts in Colorado, possibly more in other states (I've yet to check), also use WWII era mortars for avalanche clearing as well. Its cool, you can sometimes hear them go off when your moving at highway speeds down a hill. Adds some ambiance.

[@ebnertra0004]

I believe highway departments in some mountain states use artillery to clear avalanche zones. I think Alaska Railroad might, too

[@sd3693]

Part of the whole F-35 thing can be explained by the fact that when they were cancelled, the F-35 was an expensive procurement disaster that deserved a Perun video, and when they were reordered, the F-35 had finally become a success.

[@Moonzombie1]

Thank you!! Please make a part two it would be amazing! Much love from Canada ❤😁

[@lagautmd]

I see a lot of what might be called Canadian Exceptionalism going on here: 'We need special mods that cost tons. Must be built in Canada to keep our industries going. etc.' There's an old line in motorsports: First you have to build something that finishes the race at all, then you make it faster so you can compete and win. A fast car that never finishes (there are numerous examples) is useless. Get the fundamentals right, then you can make it better. So, using that philosophy to reboot the unfathomably broken Canadian military? First focus on what might be their unique strategic position: The Arctic Ocean and Northwest Passage. Therefore, acquire in sufficient numbers a collection of icebreaking capable ships (war-fighting and supply) to make any opposing power think more than twice (that's you, Russia, and maybe you, China). Do NOT worry about customization or buying newly built. Work with other nations (maybe, a NATO standard arctic frigate, destroyer, helicopter carrier) to build common warships such that the number is high enough to bring down costs and don't get hung up on special mods. Get bang for your buck. Next build air force bases in the far north and procure Scandinavian aircraft and maintenance systems due to their already established arctic capabilities. First get ships and planes of solid modern capabilities operational. After they are out in the field watch for what actually needs fixing for unique Canadian situations.

[@PandemoniumMeltDown]

Now, imagine a race team with a boss eats all the funds. I'd call it Russia but...

[@iblistarhun]

As a resident of Michigan, this makes me feel very safe as regards a cross-border attack from Canada - pretty sure my local police department has superior funding and equipment, and likely a better procurement process too. (I still ❤ you Canada but please sort this out bud)

[@robertbraden4454]

The Detroit Police Dept has more combat experience.....

[@Pilvenuga]

One thing you could have mentioned about Canadians in WW1 was that by most accounts, it was a Canadian who shot down the Red Baron, von Richthofen

[@beerandchips2545]

There's also a case to be made for Australian machine gunners in the trenches beneath the red Baron. IIRC there was a bullet hole in the plane's seat, going up

[@Lord_Foxy13]

​@@beerandchips2545 Well let's call it a team effort then!

[@chrisburke624]

@@Pilvenuga The Geneva Convention was created because of the Canadian military in WW1. (So go suck on THAT, Australia!) “It’s not a war crime if it’s the first time!”

[@liirha]

As a Canadian... I hadn't followed the procurement process closely enough to see how much money we are wasting on ships. Holy hell, that is terrifying. Thank you Perun for this!

[@cameronlea7633]

Please, Please, Please! a video on the procurement system and/or politization of Canadian military procurement is very much needed.

[@stockdale829]

It might reveal some uncomfortable truths about where Canadian defense interests are vis a vis Ukraine. The rhetoric of our politicians will remain a lot more assertive than our military contributions for a reason.

[@DeeMeister]

Perun at the end: Depending on the reception, there may be another video about Canada in the future. Canadians: Stop he's already dead! Thanks for the video!

[@gap6533]

I welcome the shame and derision of our allies regarding our defense budget, as popping our self-satisfaction on our importance to the world may work towards getting the words v action ratio fixed. I hoped the first budget since February 2022 would reflect some seriousness toward defence; the then-minister Anita Anand was producing numbers on what would be needed to maintain 1.5 % gdp vs increases to 1.75 and 2%. However, budget day came and no meaningful increases came, and perhaps most concerning, no outcry to this approach. For years, defense budgets were used for political expediency, often doling out contracts to the Atlantic, Quebec, and Pacific shipbuilding centres on that basis. I hope pressure from outside may move the needle so we can adequately support our allies like Ukraine, who have often been contracted to provide heavy lift capabilities for Canadian deployments.

[@NS38845]

The really sad part is that it's not just the small defense portion of the budget that is getting mismanaged like this in Canada.

[@mbogucki1]

Canada has an unfortunate habit of redesigning the wheel to make it more Canadian. A good example would be the offshore patrol ships. Instead of just buying the Svalbard class from Norway off the shelf we had to redesign the bloody thing and by doing so make it less effective and twice as expensive simply so we can put a "Made in Canada" sticker on the thing.

[@PeterDrake]

As a Canadian, no apology needed. The politicians have been screwing this up for 50 years. But the military itself is a huge problem. It is top-heavy with senior officers who aren't exactly top-notch leaders. Their career bureaucrats with uniforms. And they have a huge case of Jonesing for the best. They have lots of interactions with their counterparts in the U.S. (generally a good thing) a just want whatever the Americans have. They steer requirements to get something they can feel proud of when talking to the Americans. I've always suspected that a lot of the military support for defending the military industrial base is about post-retirement opportunities. And shipbuilding is the worst. They should buy elsewhere (Korean, Europe, the U.S.) and if there are changes needed then have them included in the RFP and have the work done by the experts instead of keeping terribly inefficient shipbuilders on government life support for decades and decades.

[@Meekahel]

YAY PERUN VIDEO! Uh oh it's about my country Canada.... and the state of our "military". It's gonna be painful. Trust me... as a Canadian, we take our security for granted and we shouldn't.

[@joellb2918]

Hey Perun, as a Canadian and vet, thank you for that one, hope you make another one despite it being inevitably a heavy roast. The roast is absolutely necessary (more, more!!!!!) and to be honest, even worst then you make it to be. You could litterally do a series just on the CAF agony. You can look at videos of cbc from the 80's and the Minister answers are as unrealistic then as they are today. That could be a nice focus point for the next one, the strategic delusion that lead us to where we are today.

[@roberthoward9500]

I am not even Canadian and some of those procurement examples made me angry.

[@Jo-rz6bs]

Well, that's the first sign you're not Canadian.

[@Lawrence-lj5jz]

​@Jo-rz6bs 😂

[@russe19642]

Would it make you angry knowing it wasn't the current government

[@fehzorz]

I'm a rabid social democrat that often gets into Internet arguments against "taxation is theft" libertarians, and even I'm angry at the sales taxes and airport fees I had to pay to when I visited Canada after watching this video

[@fehzorz]

​@@russe19642it's amazing how "conservatives are better economic managers" is verifiably bullshit in every country in the anglosphere and yet it persists as a trope

[@davidbaker4614]

Sunday's just wouldn't be the same without your material. Loved everyone of them. Loved them so much, you almost singlehandedly addicted me to KZbin. Keep up with the mesmerising video's and honestly i can hardly wait for the next one. Thanks

[@navb0tactual]

Fun fact and maybe these numbers changed, there is a CBC article on this but I'm too lazy to source, PR's we're allowed to join the Armed Forces... There were about 20,000 applicants... A year or two later about 15,000 dropped out because the application was taking too long, and last I checked the article about

[@navb0tactual]

Correction: the friend is not a PR. Iirc he went to cadets and all that jazz. Born here and all that. Average caucasian Canadian. So it's not like they found something they didn't like, they genuinely just took that long to NOT process him.

[@HaloFTW55]

I am so glad that I am not the only one who noticed that there is a thing with Irving somehow getting ALL the friggen contracts. Vancouver has plenty of extremely good and proactive shipyards, got buddies that work there. I was surprised every time we try to procure a ship and the contract mysteriously goes to Irving instead of any other shipbuilding company.

[@johnthornton2075]

Canadian shipyards need steady business to stay alive. They cannot survive in a boom and bust cycle which is very costly. Procurements Canada has a responsibility to get value for the taxpayer dollar, but nevertheless keep shipyards (and other defence industries) humming along. Canada must work with allies to establish a comprehensive suite of interoperability standards, then divvy up the production of materiel so that the mid size nations can specialize in medium complex systems (e.g. Canada designs/manufactures frigates for NATO) and small nations can specialize in short production run specialized systems (e.g. Denmark designs/manufactures helicopter avionics for NATO). Reducing overall cost of a military should be a key objective for the NATO nations as a group. We need better planning and organizing to achieve this, with one goal being to keep the defence industries alive, profitable and cost competitive.

[@Schaden-freude]

30 got into the military because as it turns out you need a lot of supporting documents to join the military. Most fail the security check or are unable to corroborate it entirely. Even pre-9/11 it was rare for PRs to get in.

[@navb0tactual]

@@Schaden-freude Wait were they accepting PR's pre 9/11? I thought that was a recent thing? Perhaps it's just the program I'm referencing. That's interesting if so.

[@ihavenomouthandimusttype9729]

Years of American TV has made me find the words "Canadian Defence Strategy" inherently funny.

[@gallusdomesticuskfptechpriest]

years of being canadian has made me find the words "Canadian Defence Strategy" inherently funny.

[@skyrien]

@@gallusdomesticuskfptechpriest 🤣🤣

[@loneranger515]

I have visited Victoria, BC often, it's a beautiful city. There is a large sign proclaiming "Welcome to Victoria, Home of the Canadian Pacific Fleet". The one thing I haven't seen is a Canadian naval vessel, and Victoria isn't that big.

[@ndenise3460]

Because it is in esquimalt, next harbour over

[@gordonm1935]

“Fleet” is a bit of reach

[@canadianeh4792]

I went on a date with a girl going to UVic and she asked what I did: "I'm in the Navy" "Oh, where?" "Esquimalt" "Where?" "Across the bridge on Pandora" "Oh! Really? We have a Navy?" Didn't work out.

[@Muljinn]

Dodged a bullet there…

[@terrencejones9817]

​@gordonm1935 5 frigates , 2 subs , 6 coastal patrol are based there, not huge. But not Nothing .

[@geecee2526]

Thanks for covering this painfully historic problem. I have older friends who served in the 1970s and 80s, as well as younger ones who are currently serving and they would agree with your report 100%! As a student of Canadian military history, I regret that such issues in procurement and production have existed in this country since Confederation. Canada didn't even have a professional army on the eve of WWI and no navy until 1910. The situation was only nominally better at the outset of WWII. Despite this however, Canada was able to quickly, and effectively, correct its military questionable readiness to become a crucial part of both war efforts. With threats from Russia and China today, I desperately cling to this as my only source of comfort for our future security.

[@farnarkleboy]

Most of the Dominions (Australia Canada, NZ..etc) were slow to take full advantage of their independence, but were happy to believe that the UK via the Royal Navy would keep them safe. The realisation that this was not possible and that we all had to ensure our own safety during WW2 seems to have been forgotten and we lean to much into assurances from the USA that they have our backs when there is no guarantee that they will be willing or able if the circumstance arises especially if they are pushed on multiple fronts.

[@HaloFTW55]

We actually have a professional army before WWI (the Permanently Active Militia), only issue is that they were called "Militia" for most of their existence. The Canadian Army was not called as such until 1940, to this day, the Army Reserves is still called the Militia.

[@farnarkleboy]

@@HaloFTW55 Similar in Australia

[@geecee2526]

​@@HaloFTW55​ apologies, you are correct, though this iteration consisted of just one infantry and two cavalry regiments

[@edwardaugustus9680]

Canada has always struggled with peacetime procurement. During the interwar period Britain kept trying to get them to invest in well anything to no avail.