Canoe Comparison- A Case, a Buck & a Rough Rider

Three very similar knives, but still with fundamental differences! My conclusions may surprise some.

[@t-rex3813]

Even if you only have one it’s a collection... I have traditionals from Case, Rough Ryder and others I love them all flawed or not. Thank you for an honest look at some fine knives.

[@slick_slicers]

True, but even this part of my collection has grown a fair bit. I think it was around 6 or 8 when it when I shot that, it’s 4 times that now! The one dodgy one (the blue trapper) is now fixed (by me). They’re all just about perfect now.

[@KnifeDetector]

I love that side, by side, by side, comparison! Nice work partner!

[@slick_slicers]

Knife Detector thank you.

[@jthunder57]

Amongst the hardcore collectors in the vintage writing instrument world, 3 or more is a collection. I have a collection of 3 or more pocket knives, actually about 100

[@FTA4evr]

I have a Rough Ryder Canoe. A beautiful little knife!

[@jamesbranham2217]

Have you used it much how has it held up..thanks

[@MrWrob32]

A nice easy to watch side by side comparison. Only just discovered the channel, love the simplicity of the reviews and the passion for the hobby

[@slick_slicers]

Thank you! I do enjoy these things a lot.

[@modernarnis4867]

Great case collection. Thank you for the comparison, really like the canoe design.

[@slick_slicers]

ModernArnis thanks for watching!

[@KnifeChatswithTobias]

Looks like a collection of Case Knives to me! With the Buck, you are paying for the name brand. I think you made a fair and accurate assessment. As for the Rough Ryder vs Case debate .... there is no doubt that Case has a better finish and their steel will take and hold edge better. The question is this difference worth the three four times higher price you will have to pay? Great video.

[@slick_slicers]

I doubt I’ll be buying any more Bucks after this (though I would like a 110 or a 112) as it struck me as no better than a RR, but, as you say, paying for the brand. The other make I’d like to try is Shrade’s Old Timer. Again now made in China. In the meantime I’ll keep buying Case knives, as mostly they are very good if not quite GEC and half the price. I’ve added 2 more (a baby butterbean & a large Stockman) since I filmed this.

[@jessegianni3236]

Instablaster.

[@felinebline7154]

I'll take Rough Ryder over new Case every time.

[@razgrizbird4562]

@@slick_slicers I have a Buck110 and a Schrader equivalent. You can't compare the smaller Buck knives to Case as they are made in China vs USA. Buck doesn't have great fit and finish on production knives, even USA made, but their lifetime warranty is second to none and they have a good heat treatment on their steel. If you are going to get a 110, get a custom line one, and you can get it with S35V. The Schrade I have is from the 80s and is one of the last made in USA. It was my grandfather's knife and is still going.

[@larrywoods1069]

If you're just going to look at it and not use it the case might be worth it.but I've had a buck for 8 years $14 when I bought it carry it most of the time still holds a good edge.

[@user-do5hd7zb4x]

Excellant general comparison! Thank you!

[@garethbaus5471]

I have a rough ryder canoe, I can't remember if I have posted a video with it, but it is a good knife. I am working on some scrimshaw on it but haven't come up with a good design for it so it has mostly just been me forming the border.

[@John..18]

Thanks so much for this comparison,, it's strange, I was just admiring my RR small canoe this morning, (white bone),, perhaps the quality control varies, but my example is absolutely flawless,, I can't see how a Case could be an improvement, but as I can't afford a Case, the comparison is irrelevant,, Thanks again,, All the best,, John .

[@slick_slicers]

I was disappointed by the Buck and very impressed by the RR. Yes the Case is much nicer, but you could have 4 RRs for the price. Thanks for watching guys.

[@AmatHour]

Where are you from to have blade restrictions? I’ve never lived in big cities with a bunch of unnecessary laws. I guess I’m just thankful to live in the rural south of the United States where no one even questions anyone carrying a pistol much less a knife

[@johnburns748]

SCOTLAND

[@janetowens7288]

I live in the south as well. You might want to rethink your remark about carrying pistols. I assume you mean without a concealed carry license.

[@lordofthestings]

@@janetowens7288 , you can carry a pistol on your side in arizona. I see people in walmart carrying every time I'm in there.

[@jonlouis2582]

I agree with your conclusions. There is nothing like a Case knife in my opinion. I have the Chinese Buck, and I'm sure there is a difference in the steel and fit and finish, but it does the job. Mine was $12 and the Case is more like $50 here, and I'm poor, so it works for me.

[@glenh4971]

I like all three of your pocket knives. They are just nice traditional knives.

[@slick_slicers]

They each have their attractions. I think RR do some nicer covers than the ones here. That would make them a real competitor for the Case. The real disappointment here was the Buck. It’s a strong design, but poorly executed. The Case is clearly the best, but at the price, so it should be!

[@jjcahill8934]

I think the Canoe pattern is quite a good one! I tend to believe that it was originally a Case design as I have not seen any older knives (50+ years) with that pattern, other than Case. I have a Case and an RR, as you pointed out the Case is superior. Thanks for an excellent review!

[@slick_slicers]

JJ Cahill as far as I can see, the pattern dates back to at least 1915, so it could easily be a Case original. It seems to be a derivative of the Equal End penknife. Whether the ‘canoe’ shape came from copying a canoe or simply to cover the sharp tangs of the blades is unclear. My thought would be the latter as the same principle was added to the jack or trapper to make the Copperhead pattern around the same time.

[@stevehuffman7453]

Imperial-Schrade, (possibly Schrade before the merger with Imperial), Robeson, NYKC, and other companies made a Canoe pattern prior to 1915~1920. The pattern MAY have originated in Sheffield, England or Solingen, Germany, around the turn of the 19th to 20th centuries, MAYBE a decade or two earlier. I don't believe it is an introduced by WR Case, or Case Bros. (at one time separate companies) pattern.

[@Didier090765]

Don't own a Case or Buck canoe yet, but apart from the fact that it wasn't really razorsharp out-of-the box my RR canoe came flawless, thanks for another great video 👍!

[@slick_slicers]

Didier Van Ghyseghem there’s certainly a a variety coming out of RR, but sharpness isn’t often a principle failing!

[@Didier090765]

@@slick_slicers Your judgement is more dependable I think, in my experience the odds are 50/50 but that's just based on 2 observations: my RR canoe wasn't razorsharp whereas my RR work knife with denim micarta scales was :-)

[@slipjointguy]

Love it!

[@raymondwilliams2609]

Nice video, Erik. I have a mini canoe made by 'Imperial'; it came shaving sharp and it's as cute as a little button! 😆 Stay safe, stay well everybody. 😷🤗❤️👍✌️👋🤘

[@slick_slicers]

Raymond Williams I like both the little and the full-size. They have genuine fondle factor, in spades!

[@jelkel25]

Yes, when carving wood with these smaller traditionals I've found the RRs perfectly fine, my concern when I first got them was if they would stand up to hard use and they have. I won't be bothering with Chinese made Bucks again and from a hard use perspective, in the UK if you can deal with the occasional "excentricity" and can sharpen a knife you can get an A Wright or cheaper Taylors for less than a Chinese Buck and they are solidly built with non plywood scales.

[@slick_slicers]

I’ve both Wrights and TEWs. Wrights are extremely inconsistent, but also, without exemption, blunt! However,mi still like them. They just need sharpened. TEW on the other hand can be superb. I have 4 of their premium knives, all made by Lee White, and these are 4 of my very best knives. I’ve yet to do an in-depth video on 2 of them, but that will happen in the new year. The downside of them is the price at £120 to £205! To me, they’re worth it, but even I see that they’re not cheap! Again you have to be picky!

[@stoneblue1795]

Subscribed. I got a thing for canoe knives. You seem to know a bit more than I, so I am sticking around to learn from you.

[@slick_slicers]

JP Stone it’s a really nice pattern! The case is definitely worth the money, but the RR shouldn’t be overlooked. Avoid the Buck! Thanks for watching and subscribing 😃👍

[@alangross2277]

Rough Rider are very nicely made knives, especially considering price.

[@richklangen1833]

Great video...I really like rough rider slip joints

[@slick_slicers]

Rich Klangen I think they’re outstanding for the money. My latest, a Baby Sun Fish is amazing! Fit & finish isn’t perfect, but at under £20, it’s fantastic. Thanks for watching.

[@daviddalton8996]

The Canoe and Sodbuster Jr. are the two patterns from Case I appreciate the most.

[@DD-d6d3]

Bought a Case peanut recently and had to send it back because the pull was a 10/10.

[@grahamparr4710]

A lot of people are quite snobby about Rough Rider, but I have a collection amassed over a couple of years, I do a lot of whittling, which is a better test than cutting paper as a lot of reviewers do, and I think they are fantastic value for money.

[@slick_slicers]

Graham Parr yes, I like them. For the price they can’t be beaten.

[@rhino5419]

Hello. 3 very nice knives. Do you get your RR knives from Heinie Haynes? I am trying to find somewhere in France to buy them with no success. As with the cheap sodbuster Big red showed recently. He certainly has more choice at better prices. Good health and stay safe.

[@slick_slicers]

Yes, most of my knives come from HH. Their service is top notch, though their prices can be equally lofty! With RRs, the prices are so low that an extra couple of quid doesn’t hurt too much. Thanks for watching.

[@rangerwood5511]

Great review !

[@slick_slicers]

Thank you!

[@seanrobinson6407]

Looks like a nice collection to me

[@slick_slicers]

This an old, old video, but sticks in my top ten most watched, month after month !

[@raymondwilliams2609]

I have a mini 'Canoe' made by 'Imperial', it's just so damn cute! 🤗❤️👍🤘👋

[@slick_slicers]

The ‘Mini canoe’ is often called the Butterbean. I like mine and it’s here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/hYiyk3yDeMaom9E

[@stevehuffman7453]

Glad you got a good Case. From what I've seen on Blade Forums, their QC can be hit or miss. Is your Case Canoe "True Sharp"™ (420HC stainless), or CV carbon steel? i know the 37x and 38x Buck knives have 420J2 blades, and the Rough Rider/Ryder are 440A. (the Carbon Classic, Carbon Classic 2, Black Micarta with Ti coated carbon steel knives have T-10 blades. My only Case Canoe is a 62131CV with jigged Amber Bone covers. My Buck 389 is the same as yours. Rough Rider/Ryder canoes I have are RR1736 Classic Carbon (yellow), RR1453 Zombie Nick, and RR1052 A Stroke Of Luck. joined by a COLT CT609 with Ti coated blades. I don't know what RR number is used on the Rough Rider/Ryder version, when the CT609 was moved to Rough Rider when SMKW lost the rights to manufacture Colt knives, back when Colt Firearms dropped the cutlery line, around 2016 to 2018. I forget the exact year. A few of the carbon steel Colt knives were moved to Rough Rider, unchanged except for the tang stamp and shield. I also have a Marbles MR360 Ram Horn canoe,, and a 1990's "Remington" (no "R" number) canoe, likely made by Camillus, with probably 440A blades. The 2014 Buck 389 was my first of the pattern. All of them have a good heat treat, although Case runs both their True Sharp™ and CV™ blades a point or two lower on the Rockwell C scale than the competition. Regardless, they all hold a working edge for an acceptable length of time. I have thinned and re-profiled all the edges on mine to 10° per side/20° inclusive. Stropping on a dry (no polishing paste) leather strop, belt, or boot usually restores the working edge. I rarely have to use a stone/hone on them. When I do, it only takes a couple swipes to get them arm hair shaving sharp again. Fit/Finish on all of mine are comparable: No noticable gaps, had even bevels out of the boxes (the Rough Rider/Ryder and Marbles were among the sharpest knives I've had out of the box.), and smooth, even pulls a consistent "5" on those without half stops, and around a "6" on those with half stops. None of the blades have to be fought with to open, or require a tool to open. W&T on all blades is excellent. I'm sure that even if I were to carry and use any one of these knives every day for the rest of my days (I are 68 this year, in reasonably good over-all health, aside from my knees, hips, and lower back ☹️) that knife would still out-last me, and be usable by my heir, and his yet to be born kids, provided they are not lost, given a minimum of care, , never see a glass, granite/Marble/ceramic/Bamboo/porcelain cutting board or plate, and are only put to the stone or hone when stropping does not restore the edge, and the joints are oiled every so often. 😁👍

[@James-ke5sx]

I have a Rough Rider stagbone canoe with slanted bolsters that have a bit of gold tint and a high carbon canoe for every day stuff. The stagbone takes it up another notch for looks and the high carbon version hopefully is better at keeping an edge

[@slick_slicers]

The RR stag bone knives are really smart. I’ve a few, but not a canoe. If I did, I bet it would give the Case some real competition, regardless of price!

[@James-ke5sx]

@@slick_slicers Yup! And they are addictive

[@felinebline7154]

Some of the r.r. Sunfish prices are going through the roof!

[@slick_slicers]

I can remember the doom merchants saying RRs weren’t worth collecting!

[@grahamparr4710]

I think it is fine if you can afford the fit and finish, but I would argue that a knife is a tool, I would rather see a comparison on that criteria, if all the knives cut and hold an edge, that is what matters.

[@slick_slicers]

Graham Parr unfortunately/fortunately, I’m an addicted collector who has too many knives to ever blunt one, let alone wear it out, so I’m the wrong person to ask. I use them all, so can tell a crap design from a great one, but it’s horses for courses. My favourite everyday knife is the Enzo pk70. I value its feel,it’s looks, it’s fit and finish and it’s edge retaining ability. I mostly work in an office style environment, but my son is a landscape gardener and prefers a Manly Wasp, it has better steel, a stouter blade and is easily stripped and cleaned. There’s no ‘best knife’. I’d carry a fixed blade if I was allowed.... it’s what I used to carry before everything went potty here in the UK.

[@kriskabin]

Nice vid. The Case with its brass liners & pins takes the prize, ....plus it's USA made. ( No on the China knives!)

[@slick_slicers]

Definitely! It’s by far the most expensive, so it should be the best, but that’s not always the truth! I like the way it just feels in hand. I call it fondlability!

[@jelkel25]

What is a collector anyway? Maybe an acquirer or enthusiastic acquirer of knives would be a better description?

[@slick_slicers]

JHAYKHAY25 someone who doesn’t recognise the word enough!

[@dwainsw4076]

It’s nice to see somebody say nice things about Case knives. A lot of you tubers have little good to say about them.

[@slick_slicers]

Dwain S&w thank you. Though to be fair, they certainly can be mixed! My large trapper is less than perfect, but not so bad I don’t love it anyway.... it’s just so useful and looks and feels great!

[@dwainsw4076]

Slick Slicers I understand they’re not perfect. It seems to me they are the last of the old American producers still producing knives in the U.S.A. Since they’re the last standing they must have done something better than the rest. And in spite of their imperfections I like them.

[@slick_slicers]

Dwain S&w I think that’s a very healthy attitude to take. Don’t discourage them, but try to encourage them to keep their standards up.

[@cranstonsnord4334]

Case knives, or just traditional styled knives, are not "cool" enough for a lot of KZbinrs. They do not have enough spikes on them, are not black, act like switchblades, have blood stains on them, and are just not tacticool enough! ;).

[@dwainsw4076]

Cranston Snord you may be onto something there. I’m 73 years old and I an certainly not in any knife maker’s target market. I have carried a slip joint knife for most of the 61 years since I was 12 and I have found them to meet most of my daily needs during that time. I own modern knives, and enjoy them and I routinely carry them also, but my Case medium stockman, with a pen blade instead of a more traditional Spey blade, is the one I reach for most often.

[@grahamparr3933]

I have a lot of rough rider knives, and I have no problem with the steel, cuts well and holds an edge, it is true that fit and finish can vary, but Heinnie Haynes are great if you have a problem, I have returned a couple, never had a problem, refund or replacement, use mine for carving, small figures and animals, they are the best in the market when it comes to value for money.

[@CDXRK]

I've just ordered a copper swirl canoe from them, glad to hear they are a reliable company

[@artawhirler]

I love Rough Ryder knives! I have four of them - all different - and would recommend them to anyone!

[@slick_slicers]

They are much, much better than their price suggests. Very collectible… too collectible, perhaps!

[@gregbarry5875]

Sept 2023: Walmart has the Buck for $11!!!!!!

[@austingoleman9431]

Case are beautiful knifes but for most that use a knife and I mean use them the buck is good but have several rough Ryder knifes and they are good to case to me is more of a collector knife I cut sacks and rubber hose with mine get sharpened a lot I’ll wear one out in a year or so

[@nitrorc4life1]

Love case knives, BUT, will not mail order a case, hand pick only. As far as steel quality as far as edge holding is equal(stainless), test yourself, but the t10 carbon holds an slightly better edge then the chrome vanadium case uses, that's my experience and I have many to compare.

[@slick_slicers]

I used to enjoy getting my Case knives from The Slipjoint Guy (on KZbin), who would check them thoroughly before sending them.

[@haveaknifeday6253]

Great points you made. I have a buck canoe in amber jigged bone and it is great quality. I understand that though they are produced in China they use bucks 420c which is some of the best 420 out there. Had two case xx canoes and was not impressed with them. You should try the Rough Ryder classic carbon canoe, it is unbelievable. Thanks again for your great review.

[@paddyspotatopeelers2154]

That case collection is looking good. Would you like me to do a cut test on a chinese buck against a chinese RR. Let me know pal. Atb paddy 👍😊☘️

[@slick_slicers]

paddys potato peelers it’s getting worse.... 2 more added since I filmed this. A baby butterbean and a large Stockman.

[@davids9549]

Rough Rider here we come! I mean, £15!! There's a bewildering array of scale types to choose from - let's see which gets the order. Just goes to show, it's not just about the money...

[@slick_slicers]

RRs aren’t always perfect, but Case can be a bit hit or miss too... at 4 times the price! My latest RR, a baby sunfish, is a great knife, but the fit & finish isn’t perfect!

[@davids9549]

@@slick_slicers Well done on the Baby Sunfish - can I take a little of the credit for that? My daughter's model has excellent finish, I guess I was lucky. Hit or Miss is just about right. Unlike Arthur Wright's, which are more Bad Miss and Even Worse Miss in my experience... That canoe in Buckshot Bone looks pretty, as does the one in Ram's Horn. Then there's the rather wacky Tobacco Road version, and the 'sensible' plain white bone option which will probably win out at the end of the day.

[@slick_slicers]

David S 100% you do. It’s one that’s been in and out of my basket for months, but your recommendation made me push the button, and I’m glad I did! The backspring on the small blade isn’t quite flush, but the white bone is perfect. For the price, it’s amazing! Thanks for the prompt!

[@ericpitre4031]

Slick Slicers dont be doggin on my Case knives. RR is cool, but...

[@leodegas7731]

I think you forgot that case steel is good for some work but the buck steel is 440c steel which is not great but more of a useful steel. If you're a collector, case canoe looks better and classic since i think they made the canoe first i think Personally I didn't know anything about case till 2 hours ago but was looking at knives and a custom knife i was looking at was this case canoe. If I'm going to spend a few hundred on a knife, I want to know it's history and steel. Be blessed, 👍🦁 Oh thanks for your video.🙂

[@slick_slicers]

This is one of my early videos, but you probably shouldn’t worry too much about steels in these sort of traditionals. Case use their own proprietary steel, usually assumed to be similar to 420. Buck USA use 420HC and the Boss heat treat, but who knows with their Chinese products, but likely 440A. Rough Rider use mostly 440A and mark it on their blades.

[@leodegas7731]

@@slick_slicers thanks for the info. I use my knives, but the real nice once , if i get a case modified knife, it will cut cardboard and the worst. Have a good day, ✌️🦁

[@josephascroft4774]

Are you sure the buck 389 canoe is made in china, I googled it and it said it was made in the USA

[@slick_slicers]

The small blade is stamped “China”, so yes I am sure.

[@josephascroft4774]

@@slick_slicers if it isn’t stamped china on mine does that mean mine is made in the USA?

[@grahamparr4710]

I thought Case knives were now made in China?

[@slick_slicers]

Graham Parr no, absolutely not! They’re still made in the USA, hence the high price and low quality!

[@grahamparr3933]

The quality of the Buck knife is inconsistent rather than generally poor.

[@slick_slicers]

No, I’d say generally poor. The basic design is pretty good, but the execution is pretty poor all round. It could be blamed on being made in China, but its not that simple. China CAN make good knives, even excellent knives, but this isn’t one of them. The same could, of course, be said of any country, UK and USA included. This is one of the very few knives that doesn’t sit in my collection, but in its box whilst I wait for something to do with it.

[@jamesaritchie1]

Steel matters more than anything else when comparing knives. Rough Rider steel is 440A. The "A" is important because it tells you this is the lowest grade of 440 steel. Buck uses 420HC on its American made knives, which is pretty good stuff, if it received top of the line, expensive heat treat and stress relief, which Buck makes sure it gets. Unfortunately, the knivesa Buck has made in China use a steel that isn't even classified as blade steel. Other companies use it to make liners. Buck uses it because it's dirt cheap. It's pure junk. Case uses two types of stainless steel, depending on pattern and price. They use 420HC and give it the best heat treat and stress relief possible, and they use a proprietary form of 440C, which is one of the best blade steels made. In its day, it was considered the top super steel made. Case carbon steel is a proprietary 1095 CV (Chromium and vanadium), and it doesn't get any better. Case say its carbon steel is proprietary, but analysis shows it to be identical to Ka-Bar 1095 Cro-Van, which is the best carbon steel ever made for knives.

[@vibeslide]

"Steel matters more than anything else when comparing knives." I disagree. It always depends on your personal needs and expectations. I'd take a perfectly finished product out of mediocre materials over a crudely made one out of the best materials available any day. Other things come into play as well, ergonomics, design, and price. What good is Case's superior steel if you can't afford their knives in the first place for example? Also think of Victorinox. Their blade steel is pretty bad by modern standards, yet they sold over half a billion (!) SAKs and keep doing so.

[@bobber19691]

@@vibeslide you would

[@StephenWorth]

China made Bucks aren't the same as US Bucks. And the canoe pattern isn't a good one to compare because I don't think Buck has ever makes a canoe in the US. A better comparison would be stockman pattern knives. Case US, Buck US, Rough Ryder China, Buck China. I think with that comparison, you'd find the Buck US knife might even be the best. Rough Ryder definitely makes the best China made knives. My Rough Ryder stockman is better than my Case XX stockman.

[@slick_slicers]

As always with my videos, I show what I’ve got, or had at the time. I’ve only 4 Bucks, a 110, an Alpha Hunter, a Barlow and this. The US made ones are all far better than this. It’s not Bucks that are bad, it’s just this, Chinese made, knife.

[@StephenWorth]

@@slick_slicers A Buck Barlow! That’s an extremely rare knife! I’m looking for that one. They only made that once in a very limited run.

[@slick_slicers]

@@StephenWorth it’s an old one with yellow delrin type covers, sawcut, I think. It’s ‘like new, in box’ too (not for sale). I picked it up from one of the Apostle P’s knife sales to bulk up an order and justify the $25 post from US to UK.

[@StephenWorth]

@@slick_slicers You got an amazing pocket knife! There were two sizes of Barlows and a Congress. Those are the hardest Bucks to find. They were made special for SMKW and never made again. The yellow handles are rare too.

[@bobber19691]

only in your dreams

[@pan60]

buck use to make great knifes but all i have seen as of the last many years have been junk.

[@slick_slicers]

I bought a US made 110 last year, and it’s great, and my Vaguard is going great 20+ years on, so they can do it. There’s a video on the Vanguard coming up in my current fixed blade series. Remember to subscribe to see it.

[@albion1949]

Sorry but that was awful, you could hardly open the knives and too much of the video was out of shot.

[@slick_slicers]

albion1949 thank you for your kind words and helpful criticism, I’ll bear that in mind in case I make my next hundred or so videos.... oh, I already have! But please don’t let anyone else know I’m rubbish or those 800 odd subscribers might realise I’m just a tetraplegic in a wheelchair trying his best to share my knife collection with like minded friends, if that’s not you, off you toddle!

[@rossgarden9091]

Off you toddle :)

[@crookzfps]

should have used Old Timer for comparison as well. Also, MOST Buck knives are made in Post Falls Idaho, USA. But, even the few that are made in China are still superb quality. Still, I think Old Timer should have also been used in this video. Also made in the USA.

[@slick_slicers]

I would have, if I’d had one. This channel was created to share my collection rather than to be a commercial enterprise.