Limits on Free Speech? | Doug Wilson

In this episode of Doug Reacts, Pastor Doug Wilson responds to a conversation between Michael Knowles and Andrew Klavan on whether there should be limits on free speech.
Enjoying this video? Check out Doug's page on Canon+
mycanonplus.com/tabs/discover...
Doug Reacts is an apologetics reaction series presented by Canon Press.

[@CanonPress]

Enjoying this video? Check out Doug's page on Canon+ mycanonplus.com/tabs/discover/pages/douglas-wilson

[@TheReader6]

Upload to rumble also please.

[@TheReader6]

Oh, and get NSA on Truth Social

[@usaflambert]

Yesterday, many conservatives were congratulating Dave Rubin for his announcement of him and his gay partner’s twins. Every Christian must always revert back to the question “by what standard?” Conservatism without a foundation in Christ is just another movement of self-love and idolatry.

[@emilychen102]

Totally agree. That was sad to see.

[@seanmoran2743]

But is it for us to judge ? Isn’t the ultimate judge a higher authority. God

[@usaflambert]

@@seanmoran2743 Yes it is, I'm simply repeating the judgment that God has already passed (Leviticus 18:22, 20:13; 1 Corinthians 6:9-11; Romans 1:26-27; Jude 1:7; 1 Timothy 1:10). You seem to disagree with God's judgment because meanness, or something.

[@tayzk5929]

@@seanmoran2743 "But is it for us to judge?" Yes. Obviously so.

[@jvt_redbaronspeaks4831]

I was amazed how quickly Dave Rubin was voted into "conservative commentary pundit" circles. I think 'Conservative INC' is desperate to have black, gay, women, minorities, etc to be "part of the movement" & show mainstream "WE aren't really haters."

[@lionoffireministries]

Disagreement isn’t hate, and agreement isn’t love!

[@jessitabonita]

🔥🎯💯

[@Jvaldes609]

Now I need Doug on a Sunday special with Ben on the topic of free-speech.

[@einarabelc5]

Talk about inflated consumerism, we should all pray for the people in The Daily Wire to actually hear and understand The Gospel. None of them seem to do.

[@einarabelc5]

He should start with Andrew....

[@clarkl4177]

Andrew and Michael are doing THEIR part! They are taking their place on the wall and providing thoughtful content. It is NOT the same as what DW brings, but I am grateful for ALL 3 men and pray 🙏 for MORE like them💪

[@einarabelc5]

Huh? That media company is full of clowns...all they are doing is profiting from the impotence of people to change anything The Left does.

[@rebekahguilder602]

I love Andrew Klaven. Have you heard his testimony on one for Israel? It's so powerful.

[@samuelgray4696]

@@einarabelc5 Correct! It's intellectuals on the Right patting themselves on the back because they mock the Left even though they themselves have nothing worthwhile to contribute. Andrew Klavan embodies this--a secular idealist who likes Consverative ideals, but is still in Rebellion against God. More dangerous than the Left is the Right exalting itself because it mocks the Left.

[@asdfasdf3989]

@@rebekahguilder602 I would be a little skeptical of him.

[@rebekahguilder602]

@@asdfasdf3989 🤔 in what way?

[@ericagoggans7189]

This content constantly reminds me that I am Team Jesus!! Keep fighting the good fight 🙏🏾💖

[@caleb.lindsay]

“Worship is foundational” is brilliant and true. Always good to hear something we all “know” articulated.

[@SimpleManGuitars1973]

I heavily criticized the public schools a month or so ago at church and literally a grandparent of a 17 year old teenager called my pastor literally SOBBING that I would talk against the schools and advocate for private schools which is where I send my kid. My pastor took me to the side, as I'm also an ordained Baptist preacher, and told me about it and I told him I'd go talk to the 17 year old NOT to apologize but to EXPLAIN why that public schools are bad. I told my pastor I stand behind every negative word I said because every negative word I said was based on the Word of God and that we need more men like Samuel, Elijah, and John the Baptist that would speak truth to authority and not care what the "consequences" might be. The irony is when I went to the 17 year old he was surprised I did and gave me the impression that his grandfather blew it totally out of proportion. It's time we stand up and quit being afraid of who might "get their feelings hurt" and tell it like it is again. Tozer said "I've learned that I can't please everybody so as a compromise I try not to please anybody". Wisdom indeed.

[@gch8810]

I really appreciated your comment about going back to the foundations of our country which is Christianity.

[@BuckinMich63]

Wilson is brilliant! His observation that worship is upstream from culture is spot on. Upstream refers to the material inputs needed for production, while downstream is the opposite end, where products get produced and distributed.

[@leviwarren6222]

That was Andrew Breitbart's observation. Part of what Doug isn't familiar with, the guys at the daily Wire and other "Breitbartian" conservatives believe that politics is downstream from culture and that's why they also fight the culture war. It's a given and their baseline that the cult (religion) is upstream of the culture because that's entirely sequitur. The disparity with Doug's view and Knowels' view is that Knowels already knows the answer is Jesus but knows you can't use the force of government to regulate belief. He's focusing on the political side of the issue where you can use the force of government to regulate what is antithetical to Christianity, thereby forming a society which more closely reflects biblical values. Doug doesn't watch the DW enough to know that the Catholic, Anglican, Jew, and Christian have belief as a baseline for the only final answer for the individual but focus on culture and politics as a study of the effects of God-rejection and to make putative changes in the culture and politics. They know that culture and politics aren't as important as one's relationship with God but conversion is a personal matter, politics is a societal matter.

[@toddcote4904]

I like the last line. "How to have salvation without a Savior... You can't" So true.

[@MrTheclevercat]

How to save you soul that doesn't exist isn't a real problem.

[@toddcote4904]

@@MrTheclevercat By whose authority do you make that claim?

[@MrTheclevercat]

@@toddcote4904 When someone says something that means it is from their authority unless they are a messenger or something, right? Are you an alien and new to our ways?

[@toddcote4904]

@@MrTheclevercat Exactly. You claim a person has no soul and therefore is not a real problem. And you base this on whose authority? Yours? Are you THE authority on the reality that humans have no soul, that there is no future judgment for the deeds humans do? You see, I knew that you are making a knowledge claim based upon your own authority. It's a foolish and arrogant claim. Here's how I know. Are you perfect?

[@MrTheclevercat]

@@toddcote4904 I don't need anyone's authority to know these things. Amazing, isn't it? You don't have a soul. The soul is an idiotic idea for childlike adults.

[@turegoodoverlooked]

I'm a committed Catholic and disagree with Doug doctrinally in areas, but I really appreciate his biblical articulation of the issue. Knowles really hits the "not when but which", distinction nicely; but Doug captured the real essence of the problem: The lack of the Gospel which leads to slavery to sin. A personal slavery which leads to a political one. Love, "worship, then culture, then politics" On a side note how great is it that the Gospel leads to a much more tangible freedom. Not the supposed liberty of lust, but the real freedom of gratitude and a desire to understand one's own freedom and use it well which is to say, for the glory of God. All by his grace.

[@bradhouston4734]

I’m sooooo glad that you are tackling these serious issues of our time Doug! I’m sad/concerned that too many churches are just focusing on the “happy clappy” aspect of our relationship with God! There is so so much corruption and lying going on…how can Pastors not be talking about it?? I don’t want to happy clap my way to the gas chamber!! 😳😅

[@preternaturalartist5766]

I know it is poor etiquette to reply to a comment this old, but I have the same observation. I still hear pastors complaining about the Church judging people by their hair length etc. It is like they are looking for something safe that was a problem 60 years ago, but everyone basically agrees with today.

[@schinzo19]

Worship is upstream from culture. Great point. So true, never heard that added to that quote before.

[@kaylan2083]

I might be interpreting it wrong, but can you help elaborate? Is he saying the Church directly influenced culture or that it *should* directly influence culture? Right now it seems the Church is cow-towing to culture and all its leftist, worldly demands.

[@schinzo19]

@@kaylan2083 He is saying that whatever is set up as God people worship. We as a society are more and more worshiping the self. Thus our culture is selfish and self centered as a direct influence of that” god”. A people influenced by the true God would be influenced to serve and prefer their brother. I agree the church is asleep at the wheel and in need of revival. God bless you Kayla

[@xxxViceroyxxx]

interestingly, "you can't shout fire in a crowded theater" is not a sanction against free speech; it's a sanction against inciting panic, assault, reckless endangerment, etc

[@khaccanhle1930]

Actually, you CAN shout "fire" if there really is a fire. You can't shout "fire" in a place where there is none. Freedom of speech does not allow you to blatantly lie that will cause others damage. That statement is NOT about restricting freedom, it's about punishing liars.

[@xxxViceroyxxx]

@@khaccanhle1930 the point is that it has nothing to do with free speech

[@vanessaburdine4865]

I’ve always felt this tension, as a young person watching older conservatives fight political battles, even if we stop gay marriage, abortion, sex Ed, it doesn’t solve the heart of the problem that people still want to sin in those ways. It always felt like any political victory would come snap back in our faces with an even angrier opposition and we would lose. Worship-> culture -> politics. Spot on.

[@nils7286]

The people have the right to sin, as long as it doesnt harm others, so far there is no problem in my opinion

[@vanessaburdine4865]

@@nils7286 I’m inclined to think that way as well, but then it can be difficult to define what harming someone else really is. Many times the excuse that it’s not hurting anyone is actually not true. Even if you are only harming yourself, you harm others by depriving them of the best version of yourself which would be a blessing to society.

[@nils7286]

@@vanessaburdine4865 if it were simple we woundnt have so many lawyers. We decide via democracy which rights we have. And if someone restricts these rights without the right to do so we have a violation. And thats why your right. It has to be a bottom up movement. And noone has the right to have the theoretical best me

[@Charles.Wright]

@@nils7286 - sin is a disgrace to any people. I take that phrase from Proverbs to represent the greater idea that sin affects more than just the individual.

[@gabrielrousseau_NM]

@@nils7286 The only reason sin is sin is because it hurts others. We truly are all in this life together. The guy who fully accepts taking it in the *&^ as a way of life conception of reality is broken and that begins to effect those around him. We really see the effects now that the poison has spread exponentially.

[@Josh-it6of]

Doug should go on and discuss this with Knowles. Would be great

[@libbydaddy8610]

"The problem was not that we took God out of the schools, the problem is we didnt the kids out of the public schools." Doug Wilson (Candice Owen's, the homeschoolers I know, etc - their are many with this wise and thoughtful outlook educating their children at a very high level in a godly manner).

[@jessitabonita]

Pray that Candace Owens, as quick-witted as she is, stops being so contentious and finally takes her husband's surname if she is to be this "conservative" idol.

[@larrycharlemagne2699]

Amazing content. One of the clearest explanation and diagnosis of what’s needed both personally and nationally. Nothing short of a spiritual reformation will do.

[@TheUglyAmerican007]

Thank you sir. Would be great to see your commentary on the Steve Deace show. Particularly when they do theology Thursday’s.

[@johnwurfel2862]

Thank you Doug.

[@dominiondefender4009]

You hit nail on the head

[@LaughridgeZach]

This video is 🔥 Thanks Canon Press!

[@nathan3942]

Those reacts are awesome!

[@thewolfes146]

I just listened to Michael's book, and really enjoyed hearing Doug's views that are much more theologically explicit and Christ-centered.

[@lorrainem.swartzentruber3077]

It is interesting because Michael is Catholic and Andrew is a born again Christian. So they get that we need God-it just didn't come through in this particular unterview.

[@horrificpleasantry9474]

@@lorrainem.swartzentruber3077 Andrew is questionable.. he won't call homosexuality sin and he aggressively tells others to shut up and not say anything about it

[@joshhenderson7723]

Well said, as always.

[@bpaudert]

They most important part of the video is the last minute. Worship is upstream from culture. That is the issue. Thanks Doug for making that known!

[@jason.martin]

this is a brilliant episode

[@stevenboyd593]

What made the early application of the constitution work was the impetus of its Gospel underpinnings and framework and the willlingness and compliance of the people for whom it was made

[@J-PLeigh8409]

I appreciate both these gentle kind sirs, their very good at what they do & both channels are always a good watch, & both are believers appreciating what matters most, & that is the King of Kings Whom made heaven & earth, His standards & His glorious gospel

[@mildredcommunitychurch6651]

Gentle and kind? Are we talking about the same Knowles?

[@J-PLeigh8409]

@@mildredcommunitychurch6651 that was absolutely being over the top sarcastic but I have no problem w/ Knowles or Klavin & think their both helpful to conservatives & both believers so all good in my book

[@duncescotus2342]

"If any may can tame the tongue, that man is perfect."

[@terrygafford6074]

You STILL can't yell "FIRE" in a crowded movie house when there is no fire

[@DerickZ28]

Can we all also just appreciate the discussion that takes place on the right vs the incoherent babble on the left.

[@jasonb5645]

very VERY good.

[@hanichay1163]

As Robert Bork said one opposing worldview will be preferred and the other harmed.

[@whatcameofgrace]

I really wish all humans would watch this and understand it - thanks Doug.

[@elib9002]

The issue is that when we stopped using the bible to teach grammar and reading comprehension, we didn't take our kids out and teach them ourselves.

[@kaylan2083]

Ooh that's a super good point. 😱 Also, Voddie Bauchham was spot on when he said Sunday School was one of the worst things to happen in the church. Once Sunday School became a thing, parents stopped teaching the Bible at home and instead pushed the responsibility of instructing children to be done by volunteers once a week for an hour on Sunday. 🤦‍♀️

[@elib9002]

@@kaylan2083 amen to that. Godndidnt choose abraham to be that father of His people because he would let other people raise his kids. He chose abraham because he would teach his own children.

[@dotwarner17]

@@kaylan2083 To be fair, Sunday School was originally for children who didn't have their parents available to instruct them (usually because said parents were not very well educated themselves and/or working full time) and it was not just religious education, but *all* education, back before the state took over.

[@libbydaddy8610]

Worship, culture, politics. Personal freedom, family freedom, national freedom. "You can't have freedom without a liberator [Christ]." Enjoyed this early morning view...thanks.

[@arthurb2005]

I remember Doug said once trying to force morality on godless people is like giving good food to someone with a stomach flu they are just going to vomit

[@asdfasdf3989]

When did he say this?

[@arthurb2005]

@@asdfasdf3989 Check out the lecture “ sexual by design” and the Q&A very insightful and entertaining

[@heidicook2739]

Love Michael and Andrew.

[@jackuber7358]

And this is why there is a problem with Knowles' and Klavan's peculiar Christianities. Both of them have a Gospel that is truncated by pragmatism coupled with a lack of faith in the power and works of the Holy Spirit? Maranatha!

[@Richardcontramundum]

Excellent reply! Always enjoy Doug's solid analysis

[@lionoffireministries]

Hate speech is different from speech that you hate!!

[@haqoe9857]

Hate speech doesn't exist

[@1776.We.the.people.]

Michael and Andrew's answer for changing culture is in the right direction. But they fall short of actually providing the ultimate answer for changing culture; much like their Roman Catholic faith fails short at providing a clear and assured answer as to how to be saved.

[@asdfasdf3989]

I think the idea of needing assurance of salvation is misguided. How would you say people are saved, and how can they be sure? Also, Klavan is not Catholic.

[@ehudsdagger5619]

Bring reformation and revival, Lord Jesus!

[@houseal]

"The problem is not that we took God out of the schools. Our problem is that we didn't take the kids out of the public schools." Amen.

[@MicahCTheory]

Who thinks Doug should join the Daily Wire as a host?

[@horrificpleasantry9474]

Different vision. The Bible prohibits being unequally yoked and that's what that would be. He would conflict with all of them, except it's possible Knowles, despite his affirmative catholicism, may be doctrinally Christian and able to be converted.

[@MicahCTheory]

@@horrificpleasantry9474 the unequally yoked verse was talking about marriage and nothing else. As for the rest of it every man on the Daily Wire has a different vision. Doug would be one more view but his would be biblical

[@horrificpleasantry9474]

@@MicahCTheory I don't think you're right on that

[@MicahCTheory]

@@horrificpleasantry9474 ok 👍

[@Postmillhighlights]

@@MicahCTheory seems like if marriage the only thing in view here then he would have simply used the word for marriage. Right? No this passage could certainly apply there but with other things as well - like fraternities or unions.

[@howardbabcom]

To borrow from Chesterton, we are clearly choosing a "Carthaginian' mixed with a "Hellenic" set of beliefs and suppositions rather than a 'Roman' perspective (The Eternal Man). It also revolves around our ignorance of the fact that true leisure only derives from the key place of delight (worship) and veneration amongst us.

[@BB-wj8dv]

I had an assignment for a company about a year ago that required myself and some other men to do a deep dive into the first amendment. What was found was in short that the first only protected the people from the government for speech against it. This meant that calling for violence against the government or those in power was protected speech, unlike today. However within common law there were speech regulations such as libel, slander, foul language in public, and blasphemy. It took a lot of digging sadly to find all of it, but the truth is that we never had unabated freedom of speech, we had the liberty to be upright Christian gentlemen and say down with the king. What we have today is chaos, the Constitution has been bent, torn, twisted and taped together into something it was never meant to be, all for the sake of big government without God. It ought to read One nation over God, but under Lincoln. If we ever wish to return or restore any of what was set up for us we must return to Christ first.

[@DM-dk7js]

I don’t see how the first amendment is any different now than in years past. The constitution itself entirely is a contract between citizen and government ONLY. So that’s how it was intended to be.

[@BB-wj8dv]

@@DM-dk7js The Constitution was designed as a shield for the people against it's government. Drafted to contain and constrain the government. However this has changed over time to become a weapon against the people. I suggest looking to the pre Lincoln vs post Lincoln ammendments and see how they are worded and into the case law that bent the existing ammendments to make them "work". The Constitution is currently seen as rights granted, justified and codified by the ebbing will of a few individuals, rather than the people's power over the government.

[@DM-dk7js]

@@BB-wj8dv yeah I dunno about that, claiming the constitution has changed to be a weapon against the people. Gonna need you to provide some evidence for that claim. Or at least demonstrate how that’s true.

[@gch8810]

@@DM-dk7js It is not a contract. It is a regulator of government power.

[@gch8810]

@@DM-dk7js Everyone else has to present evidence. But you don’t.

[@zachbrins00]

To annotate on Doug’s point that worship is upstream from culture, I would have to articulate that fellowship amongst the brethren is also fundamental to change the culture. It is our desire to congregate with like-minded Christians who share our beliefs in the Living Word, and without fellowship, how do we allow ourselves to receive the promises that He gave us to better reach the wicked?

[@libbydaddy8610]

"There will always be a standard...our question ought to be: 'by what standard?'" In a depraved society this standard becomes more & more foreign to them and it becomes harder & harder to avoid persecution over it.

[@tayzk5929]

Knowles has the right instinct in saying we should return to the more moral and traditional limits on speech, not be against limits on speech in itself.

[@Juliobrem]

Ive just round out this Piece of Human treasure, on a debate of Doug and Christopher hitchens. Daaaaaamn #respect

[@jamieurbain7422]

“The problem is not that we took God out of the schools, it is that we did not take the kids out of public schools.” 🙌

[@divinenatureonline]

Amen. It's Christ all the way.

[@ZephaniahL]

I will not resort to the facile phrasing that the flourishing of Wilson's Moscow community "speaks for itself," but I can say that it is so much more appealing than most other communities, either in the rest of Idaho or indeed the U.S. at large. But to look to the future: I always hope that such communities are not too dependent upon a single man or tight group of men, because without momentum of their own, they may then die with their founders. Can anyone tell us whether other Christian communities elsewhere are equally successful, perhaps adherents of Knowles' Catholicism? How is the model community in Florida that I think is attached to "Ave Maria University" doing as regards good schools, safe streets, etc.?

[@jimhughes1070]

Used to have the ability... Given your size... To limit the speech you didn't want to hear in polite Society... But lawyers made it too expensive 🤣🤣🤣

[@samuelgray4696]

We have 10 commandments. 5 of them deal very largely with the idea of how your speech is conducted. Therefore, I would very much conclude that God is against the modern idea of "freedom of speech."

[@zebboykin]

Knowles is the single greatest political commentator of our generation.

[@horrificpleasantry9474]

Nah but he has the "happy warrior" confident swagger we all should aspire to (and I think Doug has a fair measure of that as well)

[@zebboykin]

@@horrificpleasantry9474 Who would you place at the top? and yes I would agree.

[@horrificpleasantry9474]

@@zebboykin no one is the complete package. I've already granted that Knowles is tops per swagger, it's undeniable that Shapiro is quickest with a refutation to common canards, etc. But the hidden gem of Christian commentators is Steve Deace. No he's not the brightest or the smoothest or the least cringey at all times (klavan's comments about women are up there though, and Shapiro's Bible interpretation is frequently embarrassing). But when you listen long enough to the guy, as regards the CONTENT and his discernment regarding political "takes," you can see what a difference being born again makes.. I'm critical of how accepting he is of his Catholic co-host as a brother, but that's not actually very different from Doug Wilson's attitude. Fun fact, Deace is one of the back cover reviews of Wilson's "Rules for Reformers." But when it comes to matters of spiritual issues, Deace gets the interpretation and application right far more than the daily wire guys. Deace was anti Fauci as of May 2020 and it took Shapiro the whole year or more before he stopped quoting him authoritatively. Deace is very quick to remind the audience of the betrayals of the gop and not take a binary choice approach to politics. I can only say that you don't know how much sharper he is than anyone else unless you take time to listen to him over a longer period of time and evaluate his track record. He's on rumble, KZbin and apple podcasts and comments on Facebook, Twitter, gab, mewe and gettr at least. His social hot takes are 🔥

[@zebboykin]

@@horrificpleasantry9474 That was a genuine question, and I appreciate the thorough response. I haven’t heard of Deace but I will add him to the list. As for Shapiro… I’m not a fan. I will admit he introduced me to Knowles and I’m thankful for that. I’ll let you know what I think of Deace by end of the week. Thank you.

[@zebboykin]

@@horrificpleasantry9474hey brother. Can we revisit this? Knowles has had the correct take on every position in the last year.

[@TeamWilsonCT]

Thanks Doug. We need more of this kind of analysis.. I’ve stopped listening to Klavan because I believe he is a bit compromised and the daily wire is in dire need of an Evangelical voice. I would love to see a Wilson - Knowles debate on… Spiritual Epistemology- since he places so much on the magisterium but winds up (accidentally?) on some good conclusions…

[@gch8810]

He is definitely somewhat compromised. Klavan's son is an open and practicing homosexual and also claims to be a Christian. Klavan does not believe that his son's homosexuality is sinful.

[@DM-dk7js]

@@gch8810 you guys gotta stop invading peoples space and privacy and stop caring about their sexuality. What a bizarre obsession. It’s none of your business. And they aren’t hurting anyone.

[@mosesking2923]

@@DM-dk7js an unnatural condition should always be pointed out.

[@oseiaschiquellajunior8356]

@@DM-dk7js That could've been said about 4 years ago, but now seriously? Only Christians talk about people's sexuality? Really, you're really saying this in the current society where people identify themselves BY their sexuality and Christians are the ones who're obsessed with others sexuality?

[@amichiganblackman3200]

@@gch8810 Not only that, but Klavan has claimed he can make a biblical defense for homosexuality...that shows what he really thinks of scripture and his ability to understand it.

[@raymondhunter2401]

KZbin will not let me share this… anyone else having this problem?

[@aut0mat1c11]

Limited Free Speech. Now that's an oxymoron if I've ever heard one

[@nathanleubecker3964]

some US states still have blasphemy laws on the books

[@Nathaniel_Scott]

If anyone could help me out that would be amazing - I’m in the UK and in need of a church with a real backbone, anyone know anywhere that Pastor Doug has been for conferences etc or is friends with over here that align theologically and would be a good place to become a member of?

[@asdfasdf3989]

Check out the Catholic Church.

[@Nathaniel_Scott]

@@asdfasdf3989 No.

[@Nathaniel_Scott]

@@asdfasdf3989 Check out the Bible ;).

[@asdfasdf3989]

@@Nathaniel_Scott I have.

[@toolegittoquit_001]

By what standard indeed

[@garysmith1181]

No policies, laws, institutions, systems, or plans of any kind will work without recognition of the transcendent moral authority of the Living God and the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Our constitution is for a Moral and religious people. Without a Moral people there will be chaos.

[@libbydaddy8610]

"Our Constitution presupposes a moral & a religous people. It is wholly unfit for any other." John Adams making the best founding fathers quote on our then brand new and untested constitution. Word's well-weighted, thoughts in conformance to the gospel, head and heart properly aligned. Searing yet comforting truth. "If you have a nation of people enslaved to their lusts, enslaved to their passions...the Constitution is a piece of paper than can not keep them free."

[@jvt_redbaronspeaks4831]

Klavan was fun about seven years ago, but now I just can't find him serious enough. He was all aboard the "totally legit election" and "go get vaxxxxed" train.

[@asdfasdf3989]

Are you a fan of Nick Fuentes or any of the AF people?

[@interworld75]

Does Andrew K watch DW?

[@horrificpleasantry9474]

Not a chance, klavan is adamantly defiant that homosexuality doesn't send you to hell

[@preternaturalartist5766]

Andrew makes some good points, but I believe he is ultimately wrong. All libertarian views are ultimately incoherent. Knowels is basically correct in my opinion, but he doesn't really flesh out how this change can take place. I appreciate Doug's further revision and insights. Now, how do we get the Church to be THE Church?

[@libbydaddy8610]

Interesting thought about needing to be born agian to want education, that the gospel promotes a fuller (well-rounded, wiser) education and desire for one. Is this the principal or one of them behind the K-12 school in a roller rink in Moscow? Got to look into that more deeply...

[@stevenboyd593]

To get back to that foundational premise that the organisational (government) constraints don't work for those that don't adhere to the biblical moral structure, in other words it (constitution etc.) only works if the individual/corporate body is willing and engaged in it's application. Without that, it will not. So dear believer, if things continue as they have, get ready for a serious dose of anti-Christian sentiment

[@margaretwandel5660]

"Not when but which" is certainly true. However, who gets to set speech policies, who gets to enforce them? Our Founding Fathers set the standard in the First Amendment. Everyone is free to express their opinions but no one is permitted to slander/libel another. Now, of course, this standard leads to speech I do not like. I have encountered speech I view as anti Semitic. I wince and there is an impulse to tell the person to shut up. But that is contrary to my own standard and it is also ineffective. When I was a teen MLK Jr. visited 2 segregationists governors. He succeeded in converting one to his cause. He did it using the Bible and persausive speech. It is a model I try to follow. Now, on a more personal level, I dislike frivolous swearing. When my grandsons swear I having authority over them reprimand them and have at times threatened punishment. When their friends swear on my property I warn them that I will send them home if they continue the offensive language. However, I do not think there should be a law against swearing.

[@asahelnettleton9044]

It's almost as if our conservative Christian thought leaders and pundits don't have a well developed biblical worldview.

[@fredmcmurray6308]

You'll have revaluation before conversion, people are married to their sin

[@southwife]

Exactly....

[@toolegittoquit_001]

They sully their arguments when they go back to the Pontifex

[@leviwarren6222]

You're talking about some real basics here. My American sensibilities push away from Knowles' argument but he has changed my mind on freedom. We have and always have had limits on things like speech and that's not the worst thing. These guys are fully aware that the answer is Jesus, duh. What they are discussing are lower-level solutions because that highest order solution can only be affected by God with the individual. It's not possible to govern a relationship with God, the answer to these problems, but it is possible to work backward by governing low-order activities like speech. It's not the solution, nobody thinks it is, but instead of black-pilling by saying that the only answer is a relationship with God, these guys have that as a baseline and work from there on what we can actually do on a political level. You can't force somebody into a relationship with God but you can make the culture more conducive to it. And yes, it's swimming upstream which is less effective and more difficult but it's the only option besides apart from "well these people aren't Christians so we're all screwed".

[@stevenboyd593]

The base is wabblely when it has no biblical foundation, this has been the bone of contention since the first century Church. Unless adhered to the words become up for interpretation, the Word was not. The imposed dictates of extra Biblical practices have never borne the fruit of the Kingdom

[@Stareingattheson]

I believe that the original citizens under the ratified constitution of 1789 were likewise sinners and were enslaved to various lusts just as sinners are to this day. However, the divine Providence of God in using Jonathan Edwards for great revival and then followed by George Whitefield were quintessential in the establishment of and the propagation of governance that was for, of, by, the people. In short, the citizens took much greater interest in the affairs of the government as can be witnessed by the massive number of newspapers published. In fact many small towns had more than one daily newspaper.

[@mitchelll3879]

There is no such thing as hate speech: it might be hateful speech..ur not qualified to determine my heart

[@NuNuRokd]

Christ or Freedom makes more sense now. 7:00 mark. Interesting

[@chuckcribbs3398]

Wow! Doug has a shiny new M1 MacBook Pro! Something we can agree on! Been a Mac user since 1987. Supported them professionally since 1997.

[@mildredcommunitychurch6651]

Lost what little respect I had for Knowles. I cannot agree with anyone who is OK with legislating limits on the 1st amendment. As we continue in an era of progressive control of the government, with no real hope in sight of meaningful change, this is like saying "Thank you for the muzzle. Please, sir, may I have more?"

[@horrificpleasantry9474]

You don't think Florida was right to prohibit talking to 6 year olds about their sexuality?

[@jimhughes1070]

When the majority of the country is screaming no!... And communist do it anyway... I think that is the definition of heavy-handed

[@ManassehJones]

I've had 2 of my comments (free speech) removed from your comments section. Who is doing it? You? Or, YT?

[@mcable217]

Has Judeo-Christian tradition ever advocated for free speech? From stoning for blasphemy to the third commandment, speech seems like it has always had some limits in Judeo-Christianity.

[@horrificpleasantry9474]

There is no such thing as Judeo-Christian, it was only ever Christian.. "Judeo-Christian" is a canard used by secular conservatives to deny the explicit Christian origin of our culture and laws and try to make common cause with enemies of God

[@aallen5256]

@@horrificpleasantry9474 There is definitely such a thing as the term Judaeo-Christian. In German, "Judenchristlich" ("Jewish-Christian") was coined in the 19thC by Nietzsche to describe continuity between the Jewish and Christian world views, in reference to Christianity's derivation from Judaism, Christianity's borrowing of Jewish Scripture to constitute the "Old Testament" of the Christian Bible, or due to the parallels or commonalities in Judaeo-Christian ethics shared by the two religions, such as the 10 commandments, or the fact that the apostles the writers of the New Testament like the old testament were Jewish. "Abrahamic religions" is an equivalent term that casts a wider net to include Islam and other faiths that endorse worship of the God of Abraham; Abraham being a Hebrew patriarch and prophet extensively mentioned in prominent scriptures, such as the Bible, the Quran, and the Kitáb-i-Aqdas (central religious text of the Baháʼí Faith). The term became widely used in the United States during the Cold War to suggest a unified American identity opposed to communism.

[@anaquaduck5252]

Take God out of the picture and things don't stay the same. Take light out of the room and things get dark. Man made/centred secular religion is the new faith. And that a-priory faith is invested in all manner of things that cannot attain truth, peace & Grace. Its Christ alone that holds the key. Everything else is sinking sand. The imaginary foundation of secularism is no different to ancient Rome, its already fallen, already been conquered. In God we trust, not man/kind, money or government.

[@berglen100]

The unknown authors of the gospel emphasize the fulfillment of scripture in the life of Jesus Christ. Christ in us fulfills the scripture. “Do you not realize that Jesus Christ is in you?” (2 Cor. 13:5). “I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ Who lives in me” (Gal. 2:20). “For if we have been united with Him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with Him in a resurrection like his” (Rom. 6:4).

[@screwball1010]

Devils cannot build heaven

[@barneyleseven2854]

Wait, who’s restricting your speech? He just said, “men are not women”. I think maybe there is a bit of a persecution complex going on.

[@Ephesians-yn8ux]

“When you tear out a man’s tongue, you are not proving him a liar, you’re only telling the world that you fear what he might say.” Tyrion Lannister, (George R.R. Martin, A Clash of Kings)

[@MrTheclevercat]

"yOu CaN't HaVE gOoD mEn WiThOuT tHe GrAcE oF GoD" then why do atheists go to prison at 10% of the rate that christians do? Such an annoying insult to casually toss out while patting yourself on the back.

[@dotwarner17]

It's almost as if a theology that tells you all men are sinners and offers grace to sinners will attract a bunch of sinners and sometimes they don't get with the program to no longer continue being sinners! What a shock!

[@seanschram4952]

Its no longer free with limits, it's completely something different. Just like Christianity, take away one thing from Jesus Christ and it's no longer him

[@beppiek]

No God needs to reign in the home FIRST It shouldn’t matter if God was in the schools BECAUSE HE SHOULD BE IN THE HEART … God never forces obedience or following so SCHOOL IS THEIR SYSTEM …..

[@aallen5256]

God never forces obedience? Didn’t he destroy nearly all of the humans and animals in a flood because they weren’t conforming to his standard of behaviour.. (Genesis 6-9)

[@beppiek]

That’s not why the flood …. It happened because the mixing of fallen angel and human dna God will not redeem the fallen angels, demons, giants, AI or anything mingled with humanity… Not sure what your talking about forcing … Prayer was removed from schools cuz the Lord wasn’t reigning in any so called Christian homes …period

[@aallen5256]

@@beppiek He never forces obedience, but those who disobey are drowned in floodwater?? This doesn’t seem like a way to compel compliance? Prayer was removed from schools so children would no longer be forced to blindly worship a moot God.

[@beppiek]

It wasn’t for compliance the flood was to wipe out the demonic warring lords…. Just as He will do again You best start reading His journal cuz you think He thinks and acts like you

[@aallen5256]

@@beppiek "And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth ... And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth." His journal definitely seems to suggest that better behaviour wouldn't have required genocidal drowning! Capital punishment for disobedience is definitely forced compliance - threat of becoming a pillar of salt, for example! You reckon another flood is going to happen??

[@doctorisout]

The Constitution is misinterpreted weakly vis a vis speech. Somewhat stronger with regards to 2A.

[@jesst5244]

Yea but NOT Calvinist.

[@Zxuma]

Why would anyone have a discussion on which speech to allow? Humans were borne with the ability to speak. How difficult is that? Whether deemed wicked or righteous, this is what we do. This idea of finding a foundation for kinds of speech is a collective mentality of cultured peoples. Imagine the prehistoric people arguing about what constitutes qualifications of speech. 😂

[@sercabie]

If you are looking back in time to pull systems and values but you are not looking back in time at the demographics you're just fooling yourself

[@sayloltothetroll6806]

Huh?

[@wafflesmcgallagher934]

One's a catholic the other is a Jew. What do you expect?