44-40 vs 44 Magnum ammo test in ballistic gelatine

[@LJPMotorsports]

Modern commercial ammo does not do justice to the old 44-40 WCF cartridge. In order to get the full potential out of the 44-40 you have to load the rounds yourself. Original 44 wcf "high velocity" ammo manufactured in the early to mid 1900s had a muzzle velocity of 1500 fps, as opposed to the Winchester Super X you were using in your vid at 1190 fps. Look up the article "Taffin Tests the 44-40"...you will find old reloading info up to and including 2000 fps...but ONLY in a Winchester '92.

[@hansvonmannschaft9062]

Fun fact: I do own an original Winchester '92, it's 113 years old, all original, perfectly maintained through the years, gorgeous rifling, shiny double action levers, handy-dandy adjustable trigger leaf-spring, etc... (to be honest, they're quite common over here actually)... but... argh! As far as factory ammo goes, it's either cowboy action or Super X! Noooooo! (In a pathetic Darth Vader style)...

[@dorkasaurosrex9320]

Yeah proof that they don't do justice is the fact that the original factory loads of the 1880's was 1300 fps

[@starshipfantastica]

Thank you for posting the video. I have recently purchase a Marlin 1894 in 44mag and this info is very helpful.

[@doylethorn9251]

I'm only 13 years late finding this video. However, It is still good information even 13 years later. Thanks

[@MrExplorer1965]

The 44-40 was a pure lead bullet era cartridge. Shoot the same test with a lead bullet in the 44-40 and I'm sure you will see a different result in terms of cavity and over penetration.

[@steelgila]

It's 1190fps now and going back to the 90's,as far back as I know of, when I purchased my first Rossi .44-40. In a copy of Stoeger's Gun Bible 1957 ed.which I found at a flea market a couple years ago, 44-40 ammo was listed with an advertised velocity of 1310fps in rifles(965fps I think in hand guns). It can be loaded to significantly higher velocities/pressures but intended only for stronger action 44 rifles only such as Win M-92,(and clones)Marlin 94s,Rem.14& a qtr slides,Smith-Keene Bolts etc. Because of it's long history .44wcf weapons evolved from weaker to stronger designs before becoming almost obsolete with the onset of other calibres as noted.

[@Shadow0fd3ath24]

All ratings are out of a 28 inch for 1300 fps. A 24 inch should be right at 1180

[@Shadow0fd3ath24]

So its right there

[@CeltKnight]

Greetings from the Southern US! I greatly enjoy your channel. I just found this video when, after watching a Western show, I was curious how the .44-40 and .44 magnum compared in wound ballistics. Excellent production. Thank you!

[@VS-ff4ez]

Absolutely enjoy your videos. Very well done.

[@odcoolshark75]

The 44-40 caliber lever action rifle model 1873 was New Mexico's famous outlaws rifle of choice- William H. Bonney aka Billy the Kid.

[@massimothetrog7111]

Nice video, concise and unbiased.

[@benyatrock]

the chart shows how much energy is dumped by the 44 mag vs the 44-40. 44 mag hands down much more lethal, at least with the ammo used in this test.

[@mountainhobo]

"44 mag hands down much more lethal" -- Not if it underpenetrates. 30 cm (12") is insufficient for many hunting applications. Of the two shown, .44-40 is a better hunting round. If you used a hardcast bullet in the .44 Magnum, the picture might have changed.

[@guaporeturns9472]

@@mountainhobo My .44 mag drops deer like a bad habit. 44-40 works too but not quite as fast. Same exact ammo too

[@briandavidcarrico5362]

I would like to see the same test done using revolvers !

[@hungarianhillbilly4144]

Great information. I would like to see the same bullet weight used.

[@goatman2298]

Well done. I have been looking for a good comparison between the two calibers. Although the loads chosen are not "ideal" for white tail, both will do the job. The 44-40 thrives on cast lead whereas the 44mag seems to perform best with jacketed ammunition. I have taken white tail deer with both calibers and in all but one instance (where my own marksmanship failed me and I outright missed) did I need any sort of follow-up shot. Both can cleanly take deer at reasonable ranges.

[@billbearback2591]

Excellent informative comparison

[@Lipo]

Thank you for this informative video! Very interesting.

[@rodrigomeneses5900]

Great explanation . Well done 👍🏻

[@MarcosCaminante]

Greatest channel on KZbin. Question. How does the toggle system of the 1873 hold up to that kind of pressure? Thx

[@DankeGraciasThanks]

Hi Sir, thanks a lot for the interesting video, please tell me the usual E (0) (Energy at the muzzle, when e.g. fired from a 6 inch barrel recolver) of the Fiocchi 44 mag round. Thanks a lot in advance and best Regards, Deniz

[@cliffbraun3850]

I'm pretty sure the 44-40 was also a handgun rd that way the cowboys would only need one cartridge for long gun and handgun, the way of the west

[@issstari954]

it was chambered in some single and some double action revolvers though the singles were mostly conversions

[@MURUJU]

how did you create this picture (graphic)

[@mikekyzz11]

Very incredible info!!! Good job!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 🎉🎉🎉🎉

[@billallen4793]

I have a Uberti 1866 Winchester yellow boy a clone/copy made in Italy using the original tooling bought by Uberti from Winchester. My question is, can I alter the chamber/barrel to fire a more common cartridge? I can't ever find ammunition in 44-40 and love the rifles action and accuracy but am tired of being raped by the prices of 44-40 if I can find it, most is around $50.00 for a box, that's crazy prices, and need an alternative...from Wyoming USA 🇺🇸 🤠

[@joekelly9369]

Would like to see the older unjacketed rounds after impact

[@MarMPB]

Very nice test! The .44 magum had a perfect performance. The .44-40 can do much better with a bullet better suited to it's factory low velocities. Just to balance that excellent penetration with some bullet expansion! Great job!

[@mountainhobo]

These rifles were used mostly for hunting. Of the two rounds above for that application .44-40 did much better.

[@guaporeturns9472]

@@mountainhobo Not really. It’s not really that easy to pick a clear “winner” but whatever. Killed big game with both.

[@NotElmerKeith]

You need a lot of force to deform a bullet. A slow heavy bullet has a lot of structural integrity. The only way to get a 200g .44 caliber bullet to expand is for it go very fast into a soft target or any reasonable speed into a hard target such as steel. You're not likely to find many problems with Winchester's Quality Control.

[@steelgila]

Thank you! I've been dying to see some ballistic gelatin tests in these calibres( I own a Rossi .44-40). The .44 Remington Magnum rates higher than either a .44-40 or a .30-30 on the John Taylor Knock Down Scale and I think may rate around the same or better than a .30-06. Uberti's amazing. I wouldn't have dreamed that the Win. 73's link-toggle action strong enough for .44 mag forces. Beautiful guns too!

[@guaporeturns9472]

You have lost your mind if you think the 44 mag is anything near a 30-06.. Taylor ko index or not. Even a a 30-30. I’ve shot all three extensively on big game and a 44 magnum works fine within its range limits but comparing it to a 30-06 is ridiculous.

[@humpy936]

I would like to see a comparison with just using lead bullets, no jacket.

[@Shane-Singleton]

I'm interested to know why the 44-40 did not expand at all. Could be a problem with Winchester QA. I wonder if those bullets were actually manufactured by S&B like Winchester does sometimes. If that round had expanded properly I think the results would have been a little closer. The expansion on the .44 mag was perfect.

[@mountainhobo]

Not for hunting. .44-40 in the test above did much better. 30 cm (12") is considered insufficient for hunting most medium to large size game.

[@Shane-Singleton]

@@mountainhobo If I were going to go hunting for medium to large game I wouldn't be doing so with a pistol caliber cartridge. Even out of a long rifle barrel. On a standard .44 mag the muzzel velocity is only ~1800fps out of a 20" barrel (from the source I saw using a 225gr projectile). I'd much rather use a ~150gr .30 cal bullet from a big rifle cartridge screaming a lot faster for both penetration and long range accuracy. which on, say a .30-30, would be ~2400-2500fps. Now all that being said i'd really enjoy having a lever gun in a pistol caliber for the amount of rounds that could be carried. I've often thought of vetting a .38/.357 model of some kind, either a lever gun or a colt lightning type.

[@mountainhobo]

@@Shane-Singleton Yes, I would prefer 30-30 as well. However, this comparison was .44-40 vs. 44 Magnum, and for the two bullets tested, for hunting i would choose .44-40 based on the results shown in the video. 12" penetration is not enough for hunting.

[@seanreardon27]

@@mountainhobo Depending on your load the 44 magnum it’s a fantastic hunting cartridge out to 125 yards. Have killed many pigs in Florida with a 44 mag. I also own a35 Remington and 3030 But with certain loads shooting 2000 ft./s the 44 mag is a great first hunting rifle for my son. I’ve never seen anything take a step after getting hit by it

[@jfbft5007]

some loading table with french powder list load equal to 44 MAG revolver, realy more powerfull than commercial 44-40 cartridges? BUT ONLY FOR 92 Winch.

[@rooster3019]

Current commercial 44-40 ammo has to consider the probability that it will be used in non-Ruger old model revolvers, thus it can not match hand loads for the modern 1892 Winchesters or 1894 Marlins or the Redhawk class Rugers. WIth wiser selection of lead alloy hardness, one can get nice bullet expansion. Still, although the above stated firearms can handle 44 Mag service, with 44-40 the shell case is the limiting factor.

[@PublicDisgrace2]

It has been said that the .357 magnum originally put the 44-40 out of business. Personally, I think the 44-40 is a good all round puncher, not too fast and not too slow with excellent knock down power with that big lead bullet. The .44 mag is much too powerful and tends to zip right thru a body without dumping its energy like a 44-40 bullet at around 1190 fps with a 200 gr. lead bullet. Be interesting to run a comparison between the .357magnum and the 44-40. As Goldilocks said, it is just right! Of course I am talking about deer and people shooting as in the old west of course, wink wink!

[@Cleverhandle357]

+PublicDisgrace2 Lighter, faster bullets do not overpenetrate into soft tissue, especially when kinetic energy is equal. The more velocity a bullet has, the more it will expand. Watch the video and notice that the .44-40 penetrates a lot more than the .44 mag This also explains why pistol calibers penetrate a lot more than some rifle calibers.

[@Cleverhandle357]

The crazy Weaponcrafter Maybe, but I'm sure the test was done with identical projectiles

[@KageMinowara]

I actually found this video because I was looking for a video that compares 44-40 and 357 mag.

[@gooseyVEVO]

Whoa, haven't seen your channel before. You should post copies of the the wound track images on a photo hosting site for ease of comparison, they are very very very interesting!

[@TheRoadlord]

That's a good video. I've seen very similar performance with different JSP 44mags in handguns. Under 1200fps there is just no surefire guarantee with expansion. When dressing the deer I've shot at 60-80yds with a 44mag JSP factory load from a 71/2" barrel, I've seen "jellying" around the wound channel, but not any appreciable expansion. That was a main reason I started loading lead SWC's. Having said that, the deer died just fine with the JSP's. As a matter of fact, I've shot them with a 44spl at around 800fps impact velocity with clean kills. A 44-40 will do a deer in no prob, like our great grandparents knew all too well. Big holes bleed big blood.

[@Lipo]

Very good video! Thank you for posting.

[@arpadlimanagy7018]

Qual é o efeito da energia cinética do calibre .3,57 Magnum?

[@stepabove2136]

I wish you could do same test same ammo with uberti 51/2 barrel pistol of course range would be close 😕. I have a lot of Winchester hunting ammo and 4 pistols with 5 1/2 barrel no access to ballistic gel.

[@gsingemunson8195]

What foot pound is at the muzzle for this round?

[@453421abcdefg12345]

The comment dropped in on the wrong review, this one is much better,no music!

[@kennethhamby9811]

I shoot an original 1873, ( the barrel and mag tube are off off a modern model 94), in 44wcf.. “it will keel”.

[@joemoore7276]

More realistic comparison would be 44-40 vs 44 Special especially in handguns

[@woodenshoe788]

I think this is the first video Iv'e seen of an 1873 in a 44mag. Curious how the toggle action or parts will hold up over time.

[@shawnwells5719]

My thoughts exactly. My 44 Magnum is an 1892; not sure I'd want an 1873 in anything bigger than 357 Magnum.

[@sooperknob]

WTF... you had some one down range holding a camera??? I like how you roll.

[@TheCarablanco]

This leads me to believe the .44-40 is the better round for hunting, spoiling less meat on entry and passage. A woody/shrub environment would have been more instructive; IE: which round is less deflected in woodland conditions.

[@robert91rs]

+TheCarablanco If deep penetration is your only concern, using a full metal jacket or hard cast lead projectile would cause the 44 magnum to penetrate even deeper than the 44-40 did and with less drop in flight over distance than the slower 44-40. The semi jacketed soft point was designed to be a happy compromise in expansion and penetration but the 44-40 shown here was not able to achieve a velocity great enough to cause expansion.

[@nacholibre1962]

What ignorant drivel. You shoot for the vital organs through the ribs, not where there's meat. Secondly, expansion delivers greater damage to vital organs , as seen by the larger cavity in the test, ensuring an ethical kill. Thirdly, there's NO (and I do mean NO) bullet that is designed or capable of not being deflected in "woodland conditions" if it hits a branch/twig, etc. Every bullet will be affected somehow, which will negatively affect accuracy, and which is precisely why you ALWAYS ensure you have a clear shot and do not shoot through brush. Bloody fool! Sounds like you sling bullets through the tress and hope for the best. No wonder you're hitting them in the arse and "spoiling meat."

[@issstari954]

@@nacholibre1962 Hey hey be nice now if you hit vital organs you still can mess up the meat your penetrating the skin if you open up to big of a cavity thats what happens its physics and biology

[@markbroad119]

Well presented facts about the actions of two almost a like calibers. I wish others would do such research and data. Being from America cm-inches don't really understand but can use a graph to find out. Thank you

[@arpadlimanagy7018]

A munição Wincherter, é reconhecida mundial devido à sua performance em energia cinética...

[@453421abcdefg12345]

Excellent review, but why the music/ It is distracting from the content.

[@briandavidcarrico5362]

For hunting game the 44-40 would be better due to less damage to the meat, for stopping power in lets say a Ferrell hog or a person where max damage is needed with little or no collateral damage the 44mag would be better ! I am surprised at the total lack of mushrooming on the 44-40 though but as someone else said it could be the particular bullet !

[@terrencemacarthur8465]

+Brian Carrico Uh, it's feral, not ferrell.

[@atavisticempire3473]

+Terrence MacArthur don't be a douche bag

[@issstari954]

agreed

[@guaporeturns9472]

@@terrencemacarthur8465 Yeah , don’t be one of those.

[@tomsmith4319]

I have never seen a Uberti 1873 chambered in 44 mag in the United States.

[@doylethorn9251]

'73 can't hold the pressure of the .44 Mag. .357 Mag is as far as they go for high pressure.

[@zukkuszukkus6803]

44 magnum out of a lever gun is 100% american

[@GreenCanoeb]

And the .44-40 isn't???

[@timsim1940]

GreenCanoeb it is just as American! It was the common go to round back in those days!

[@9unslin9er]

Unless that lever gun is made in Japan or Italy.

[@JYDAWG49]

I HAVE A 44-40 COLT SINGLE ACTION REVOLVER AND IT'S ONE OF MY MOST FAVORITE HAND GUNS I OWN . THE ONLY THING IS THE PRICE OF THE AMMO IT IS SPENDY . 44-40 is one of my favorite cartridges,

[@ronin98k]

Waffen Meixner? Are you from Asutria or Hungary??

[@MrDeathd]

What do you make your ballistic gel out of. If you don't mind my asking

[@snowsniper8]

awesome!!! cant wait to get my 44 mag!

[@JohnPatrickMonaghanvitaestamor]

What is apparent from testing is that penetration stops increasing at impact speeds above about 1250-1300 fps. Here’s an interesting comparison. 44-40 vs 44 Magnum in Ballistic gelatin. The 44-40 at 1200 fps x 200 grain (890)Joules out penetrates the 44 magnum 1690 ft/sec x 240 grain 2100 (Joules} . by a cosiderable margin. Makes me wonder why the 44 Magnum was developed in the first place.

[@mkshffr4936]

Most factory .44-40 is loaded pretty light. I suspect a proper lead bullet loaded to sammi specs would have done better. Heck I would consider a swaged flat point over a full case of ffg or fffg would be dandy.

[@ltcajh]

Yikes, no hearing protection?!

[@sonnygunz9207]

I need a ‘73 in 44-40. I’d definitely roll my own ammo.

[@goolgehatter1597]

Pls use hearing protection

[@grahampalmer9337]

I think that the members that parked in the down-range car park may now wish they had parked in the road instead. 😒

[@steelgila]

I maybe due for a .44 mag. Uberti too!

[@bkb5668]

Fiocci makes a .44 mag in 200gr. That would have been the better test.

[@stevetodd478]

Not a fair comparison! The .44-40 load you used is a reduced power load compared to what the gun was designed to shoot at a much higher velocity. Try it again with a muzzle velocity of 1,350 fps, as the original design speciations called for. You’ll see a big change! So, I call your test bogus until you do a fair comparison!

[@doylethorn9251]

The original design was 1350fps out of a rifle with Black Powder. You can't push the 1350 with smokeless powder in the '73

[@chriskincaid6035]

Thank You ...

[@geraldharper330]

Great Job...

[@rebelbiker9956]

so the 40 in 44-40 stands for the lenght of the brass in mm?

[@lucasvaughn629]

no the 40 stands for the original load of powder. a 44 bullet with 40 grains of black powder.

[@rebelbiker9956]

Lucas Vaughn thanks

[@johnsheetz6639]

You know people will developr 44 before a 44-40. I'm not against one of the other

[@garryhynds4870]

Thank you,

[@tubeloverforsure]

A very nice demonstration of the two cartridges but could you please give your data in foot pounds of energy and inches penetrated in the gelatin block next time. All this metric stuff in joules and centimeters means absolutely nothing to me. I can relate to feet per second, foot pounds of energy and inches penetrated in Gelatin but not the metric stuff. Thanks from your American audience. 👍

[@MrHeavychevy86]

French?

[@cplinstructor]

Many of your viewers are in the US, would you please provide a translation from metric to imperial for us? Metric measurements are meaningless to us.

[@jessereiter328]

I had a super Blackhawk 44mag 7.5 barrel that is enough to kill almost any animal on the planet except man that wares sheilding.

[@chapmaker46]

very good vid thanks

[@jaybailleaux630]

I hate a 44-40. It is not straight wall so you have to load it like a rifle case with lube and steel dies. 44 mag much easier to reload with carbide dies . 44 mag much more useful hunting cartridge with its added power over the 44-40. Older stuff is not always better. A modern made 1873 can easily handle the pressures of the 44 magnum. Folks that dont think so don't know much.

[@jazd3668]

Grrrrr use the www.winchester.com/products/rifle-ammunition/performance/super-x-rifle/Pages/X4440.aspx instead of the low velocity cowboy ammo

[@tommcqueen3145]

👍