Capitalism Vs. Socialism Debate: Arthur Laffer & Richard Wolff

Arthur Laffer, Founder & Chairman of Laffer Associates, joins Richard Wolff, Co-Founder of Democracy At Work, to debate the merits of capitalism versus those of socialism, and how to build a more prosperous society.
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*This video was recorded on September 20, 2023
FOLLOW ARTHUR LAFFER:
The Laffer Center: laffercenter.org/
FOLLOW RICHARD D. WOLFF:
Richard Wolff website: www.rdwolff.coma
Twitter (@profwolff): / profwolff
Democracy At Work: / @democracyatwrk
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*This video is not financial advice. The channel is not responsible for the performance of sponsors and affiliates.
0:00 - Intro
3:09 - How to solve America's underperformance?
24:50 - Has socialism failed?
38:38 - How to fix income inequality?
45:40 - Uses of surplus
51:05 - Non-hierarchical organization
1:00:19 - Wealth redistribution
1:10:16 - How to create more wealth?
#economics #capitalism #socialism

[@Nackakliniken11]

After such short time you have created the best macro channel out there, all categories. Congratulations!

[@TheDavidLinReport]

Thanks! 😃

[@fleshpistol]

For real, I look forward to this channel every day at work. Its quickly become my #1 channel. I am mainly a crypto weirdo but gosh these macro talks are fascinating and I learn so much.

[@raygaub9861]

​@@TheDavidLinReportA democratic workplace doesn't eliminate a hierarchy any more than a democracy does. It just changes and gives legitimacy to it.

[@markarbanasin4]

​@raygaub9861 Exactly. And if you listen to Professor Wolff's larger argument he clearly uses hierarchical co-ops as examples. The CEO still exists. But the major distinction is they are accountable to the employee base rather than the Board. And coming back to a more equitable society - it's pretty clear you will balance interests towards a longer term positioning rather than constant short term cycles to hit quarterly metrics rather than true longevity. And also compensation will obviously be managed to a level that the broader employee base feels is equitable. That does the mean same pay for unequel work, but also curbing the extremes occurring at both ends of the scale.

[@reasonerenlightened2456]

​@@TheDavidLinReport Arthur Laffer makes me laugh. Having a phone may still make me poor among the living humans but if he compares me to the dead people from 1000 years ago, I am richer than all the dead Kings, because none of them had a phone. Laffer makes me laugh. Comparing the wealth of a living being to a dead being is very useful for the Wealthy.

[@Sandcrackattack]

I love that Laffer brought up Einstein as an example of rational thought. Einstein was a devout and outspoken socialist.

[@ericmacrae6871]

At first, I taught you said Esptein instead of Einstein

[@Sandcrackattack]

@@ericmacrae6871 oh damn, that would be different! 👀

[@arthurzetes]

You can take one part of what someone says without having to accept or validate everything.

[@aktube9084]

Einstein was not really "outspoken" about it. He seldom mentioned it. He also admitted he knew nothing about the economy and was basically going off vibes

[@Sandcrackattack]

@@aktube9084 I wouldn't recommend making up things to make your point. History exists. This lie about history and repeat is common white supremacist patriarchal capitalist practice. I get it. When there is little moral ground to justify supporting the theft, murder and exploitation of humans and the planet a capitalist system needs, you must find any way to defend it. Hey you do you. But Einstein in fact was understood the economy very well. It ain't rocket science. Economics is NOT that complex buddy. But w.s. capitalist will try to be gate keepers of their insane abstract art. LoL. Einstein even wrote an essay in 1949 titled "Why Socialism?". I own it, have read it and being someone who has taught science and economics classes, he understood it. What fun fantasy will you conjure up now to defend this w.s. system of death?

[@jermainemyrn19]

Richard wolf honestly made a lot of things clear for me. I see what he's talking about with my eyes

[@Dan16673]

Just another tankie

[@jermainemyrn19]

@@Dan16673 I don't know what that means. He's qualified and spot on with how capitalist functions

[@Dan16673]

@@jermainemyrn19 another justifier of commies and their insanity

[@sten260]

I think he is mostly wrong and his solution doesn't make any sense, democracy at the workplace? what the hell does that even mean? Worker doesn't own the workplace, they are just there to temporarily do some job and get paid for it. Worker doesn't care about the profits and losses, they get paid their market price and thats it.

[@dorinpopa6962]

​@@sten260a co-op is a shared ownership of the company, so yes, he is talking about shared ownership by the workers essentially.

[@user-mu4np4ze3y]

“China’s economy collapsing in front of our very eyes” 😂😂😂

[@waimoy552]

“China collapsing in front of our eyes” haha ROFLMAO, this reminds me of Gordon Chang, that he said China is collapsing every year for the last 20 years. Look at the debt ratio between China and USA. We, USA will collapse and buried 6 feet under long before China shows any sign of collapsing.

[@donthiebautable]

Right? They've been saying China is "collapsing" or "is about to collapse" for years on end. Maybe it will someday, but it sure as hell hasn't yet, lmao

[@fannyalbi9040]

the moment spill this, i sense con man talk

[@ericmacrae6871]

​@@fannyalbi9040well I knew he was a fascist from the start and I am not surprised that what he said because people like him are clueless about how the economy run especially the Chinese economy

[@fannyalbi9040]

@@ericmacrae6871 eat regurgitation 🤮 is disgusting yet most people buy it.

[@bigoldick-digoldbick]

The capitalism defender can't stop advertising his book. It's like a perfect example of capitalism and it's endless, mind numbing marketing and advertising.

[@Dan16673]

Stil better than starvation

[@bigoldick-digoldbick]

@@Dan16673you mean like the starvation of over 5 million children every year due to malnutrition and it's related diseases that happens under global capitalism?

[@stevencats7137]

@@Dan16673POV: you watch Fox News

[@sten260]

because capitalism defenders are smart, they are not there to waste their time, better advertise and sell something while they are at it.

[@teeletsetse445]

I hear you. I prefer communist posters and pamphlets. 😏

[@goldensilver793]

I like Prof. Wolff. He's not afraid to get in the ring with anyone and always very clear on his position...

[@kyleinpa5285]

He’s definitely not afraid and is very clear, but he’s straight up wrong.

[@Diabolical05]

He's not afraid to look like an idiot... He got schooled in this interview jsut as he got schooled when debating Gene Epstein..

[@ExPwner]

@@Diabolical05yep this

[@LongDefiant]

​@@ExPwnerancap = unable to think

[@ericsuarez834]

​@@kyleinpa5285He is totally right

[@MysticYT925]

This debate is VERY telling when you have an economist that has worked in the White House say “democracy no matter where it is doesn’t work and we need to regulate who makes decisions" EDIT: also David I must thank you for hosting this debate it is something that the US has been sorely missing for decades but I do think you should have done more at the end to prevent Dr. Laffer from interrupting Prof Wolff as he was never able to complete any of this thoughts due to Dr. Laffer constantly interrupting him and it wasn't until you stepped in and told Laffer to let Wolff finish that the conversation finally became stable again.

[@ExPwner]

That is because he is an economist working with the facts and not a blowhard fool like Wolff who makes things up

[@jasoncuculo7035]

Republicans always rudely cit people off.

[@arthurzetes]

What’s telling about it? The USA has never been a democracy. The founding fathers made sure it wasn’t. Its a republic/ representative democracy with two legislative bodies based on two separate criteria. Pure democracy is just mob rule.

[@mowthorn8570]

Great discussion. Would have been much better if we, the audience / the workers were to vote at the end on the economic system we would want to live under.

[@reallyshel]

So just a bunch of misinformed plebs get to vote how our economy works? No thanks.

[@captainpawpawchannel]

Yes democracies do not exist yet

[@garrett3848]

@@captainpawpawchannelthey do. Ask your congressperson to propose it

[@youtuber6185]

Democracy does not work. Every country successfully uses a representative democracy

[@zarategabe]

​@@garrett3848.... Congress people who only do the biddings of corporations and who barely care about the needs of the people. Then we normal people can only pull a crank every 2-4 years to vote for leaders who will only do the bidding of the corporate overlords. Our system is destined to be as anti-democratic as humanly possible while pretending to be a "liberal democracy '

[@RueMontagu]

My take away from Laffer's argument is that he wrote a book and was the first political capitalist to go to China in the 70s.

[@TwoTonTaft]

But did you know he wrote a book? I wonder if he'll tell us

[@oscarg8449]

@@TwoTonTaftMaybe read and learn some. Should cure the socialist disease

[@ChrisGenXer]

Any chance of you doing another debate or discussion between these two once they’ve read and analyzed one another’s book? That would be an amazing Part II to this discussion.

[@huwhitecavebeast1972]

There would be no point to that. There is no debate between socialism and capitalism. There is no way possible to argue that socialism is superior to capitalism. The argument does not exist, and the arguments proffered are always full of holes. Socialism is a giant con game, one that usually winds up mass murdering its own citizens and impoverishing the rest. Richard Wolff and his tribe are THE problem in this world.

[@ahsimiksnabac6576]

that would be nice, I don’t mean to be rude, but as someone who seems to never have had an original thought, i suspect Laffer is functionally illiterate.

[@ExPwner]

@@ahsimiksnabac6576 project elsewhere with your illiteracy.

[@azmadu]

No that would be pointless and a waste of everyone's brain cells. When someone who during a two person debate can't comport themselves equitably when the other is answering you know there's something wrong. Telling Dr Wolff to read his book repeatedly as if it's the definitive tome of economic theory and history is akin to people saying the Bible is a historical book. Socialist countries failed due to imperialism of the USA and the vassal states of Europe. We're all now experiencing the inevitable demise of the criminal enterprise called capitalism and if the elites need a history lesson they should look to France in 1789. 🧐

[@LongDefiant]

Laffer is a bit of a yawn. He's a one-trick pony. Ok, fine he thinks he knows how to make a bad system grow faster. Wolff knows a better system. They are on totally different levels.

[@AbbeyRoad69147]

Wow! There is NO MAINSTREAM MEDIA that comes close to this David. Not even 100 miles.

[@TheDavidLinReport]

Thank you! I appreciate the gesture

[@gort3969]

KZbin steals 30% of that superchat

[@USGrant21st]

Don't know how David managed to get those guests, but that was the best debate I've seen for a long time.

[@antoinemellinger]

@@gort3969 KZbin is run by a bunch of socialists

[@junkscience6397]

@@gort3969 "Stealing"? lol. I know on which side of this capitalism/socialism debate you reside. If not for KZbin, you wouldn't know David Lin for squat. There's be ZERO audience. Think about it just a bit more...

[@petercohen5563]

“…a government that TRIES”? How can the Government do anything against the wealthy and corporate when politicians literally rely on the wealthy and corporations for their careers?

[@jellybelly9662]

exactly!!!!

[@wakilsinare-sj9hh]

Thank you for bringing dr wolff🎉

[@dohyunio]

You actually did it!! Congrats on making this happen - pls do more debates, bull v bear!

[@daveh6424]

Peter Schiff vs Michael Saylor

[@fredfrond6148]

@@daveh6424 I would click that one even faster than I would this one.

[@Legionare]

Richard Wolff is an Educated Idiot ! Please stop indoctrinating kids.

[@markyocum8249]

Kudos to Mr. Wolfe for debating, especially someone as formidable as Mr. Laffer. Most self-proclaimed socialists refuse to do so unless the deck is stacked in their favor. Well done, Mr. Lin.

[@UntilChill]

The idea that Laffer is formidable is laughable. Laffer's ideas have been debunked for decades and he had to talk over and interrupt Proff Wolff to prevent him from further exposing Laffer's bankrupt and oppressive ideology.

[@emilianosintarias7337]

which refuse to do so? the deck is already in their favor naturally since their opponents haven't had to study socialism but they have had to study capitalism. Look at Doug Lain arguing with Glen Lowry, Lowry an economics PHD was at a loss because, he hadn't considered most socialists mean worker ownership not state planning

[@NF-ru8on]

Art Laffer kinda lost it at around 1:15:00. Seemed to almost switch off from being somewhat reasonable to "im not gonna let Richard finish his points anymore".

[@timc1604]

Well, he was frustrated. He was defeated intellectually, not knowing and understanding the points that Wolff was making. All he had left is to talk over and pout.

[@ExPwner]

@@timc1604no he wasn’t. He refuted Wolff’s lies directly

[@Dasein2005]

This was excellent. I don’t praise KZbinrs often, but you were an excellent moderator. You let them speak and interact, keep questions relevant and quick, and kept things moving when necessary. Well done.

[@YourLakelandSloth]

David you are amazing for arranging this. Also shout out to Arthur for showing and defending his position against Wolf. I tend to be more sympathetic to Wolf’s position but I am glad he is being challenged Wolf is very articulate so it’s hard to find people willing to debate him. Can’t wait to listen to this and I hope it was a sound debate.

[@Raelspark]

Yaron Brook debated RW very well.

[@ryanosterman2651]

@@Raelspark no he didn’t, historical revisionism is hilarious.

[@Raelspark]

@@ryanosterman2651 Yaron Brook defeated Wolff on the facts.

[@ryanosterman2651]

@@Raelspark no he wasn’t he was lying. He made a bunch of switcheros and disputed the facts when they weren’t in his favor.

[@ExPwner]

@@ryanosterman2651 that’s a lie. Yaron clearly had the facts and it was Wolff who was lying.

[@bennykwong3172]

Bravo to David to bring them both in for the debate! Lol😅

[@bcadams75]

I can't thank you enough David. This style of discussion was so common in the U.S. on MSM 40-60 years ago. I look forward to the future where brilliant minds like Art & Richard are showcased on independent channels because I have no hope MSM will provide it. It's super difficult to find someone to debate Richard, so hats off to Art, & again David, much appreciated 🙏

[@tedwong7037]

Its sad to see people like arthur laffer bragging hes the one constantly on CNN, NBC etc and having a bigger influence.

[@peteferguson518]

Arthur Laffer and the moderator won't let Dr. Wolff speak.

[@fannyalbi9040]

he is a vietnamese suffering severe stockholm syndrome. that’s why

[@arthurzetes]

They did until Wolff was lying.

[@zarategabe]

@@arthurzetes What lies?

[@arthurzetes]

the part in the video where laffer calls out wolffs lies @@zarategabe

[@Bentleyyoyo]

wow great retort, "justify your assertion" "uh the part where my assertion was justified"@@arthurzetes

[@moviathan]

Kick ass David! Great seeing a debate!

[@katz8541]

Great debate! Now I want to see the data that says that if the rich get richer, we do too, LOL. Thank you David!

[@GeoffreyPicketts]

It usually just leads to homelessness and high costs; the money gets smuggled at the top, the costs rise for the rest. Just look at all the problems where the tech booms occurred.

[@Revocdeb]

Supply-side economics, AKA trickle-down economics, AKA horse and sparrow economics . . . because the horse eats the grain and the sparrow picks food out of the horse's shit. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trickle-down_economics

[@ExPwner]

@@GeoffreyPickettsno it doesn’t

[@ExPwner]

OP that data is at Our World In Data

[@Revocdeb]

​@@ExPwneryeah. It's so easy to find. I knew that data point prior to this debate and I must believe Laffer did as well. Wages haven't moved for 6 or so decades, adjusted for inflation.

[@johnnewton3592]

I love how Professor Wolff knows capitalism better than Mr. Laffer does who is a major supporter of it. I find that this is a very common when talking to anyone how is a large supporter of free markets and capitalism as it stands. Rather funny if you think about it.

[@Diabolical05]

How did you come to that conclusion? Richard Wolff couldn't even define capitalism or give a direct definition for it while debating destiny.. Nor can he give a direct definition of socialism... I am curious though, how did you come to the conclusion that Wolff "knows" capitalism more then Laffer?? I suspect you came to that conclusion because his though on it aligns with yours..?

[@themoonrider351]

Absolute nonsense, its clear Mr. Wolff never worked in the economy and instead used his sheltered being as an academic to pump his brain full of abstract macro economics like Marx. He doesnt understand the policies hes fighting for are bogus and completely unrealistic. Its like someone who thinks they know how to fight cause they watched Rocky. If you want me to go into Detail let me know..

[@ALL_CAPS__]

​​@@Diabolical05Professor Wolfe is also a historian. He would know more about the historical context of capitalism. He always gives historical context when speaking. It doesn't matter how many statistical figures you wanna throw out, it doesn't mean you're right in your analysis or your presentation of them. Which is all Laffer did. Aside from agreeing with most of Dr Wollf's arguments. If I remember correctly, the professor gave Destiny a historical lesson. He didn't want to hear it, understand it or acknowledge it. Much like most do when you challenge their views.

[@ExPwner]

Wolff does NOT know capitalism better as shown by him lying right out of the gate and being corrected by Laffer

[@AlanDavidDoane]

Well, it's impossible to support capitalism if you actually understand it.

[@Br.ajjoujjenberry]

Laffer would just not let Wolff speak at the end

[@timc1604]

Well, he was frustrated. He was defeated intellectually, not knowing and understanding the points that Wolff was making. All he had left is to talk over and pout.

[@ExPwner]

@@timc1604he refuted Wolff’s bullshit. Wolff lied. Grow up. Wolff was the one getting owned here

[@harryholiday5356]

The very best economic discussion I have ever seen. Wish those who make the rules could have such a discussion. Thanks so much,

[@mE-zx7pt]

They can but they'd rather talk to their donors.

[@user-ib9bk7nq6s]

Seemed like they were talking past each other and focusing on their expertise. Wolff was talking about the organisation of the workplace and Laffer was responding by alluding to economic growth after tax cuts in particular administrations. It was actually a very pointless discussion lmao

[@guapochico69]

Laffer is a demon he only wants to cut taxes for the rich and cut social programs for the poor that's literally his entire economic platform and kansas tried it and it failed miserably

[@ExPwner]

@@guapochico69 Kansas did not put into place his ideas. Quit lying

[@guapochico69]

@ExPwner so you literally had no idea kansas did this? All you have to do is look it up its on the southern poverty law centers website and the kansas economic forums website. Every kansas economist learns about arthur laffurs ridiculous policy failure. The fact you have never even heard of this explains how you could possibly support this dumb$hit

[@petiger6646]

I've really enjoyed this debate. I think both Arthur and Richard want the same thing, they just don't agree on how to do it. My personal view is that since 1972 and especially 2008 the central banks have used quantitive easing to increase the value of assets, making the financial markets and corporations more wealthy, whilst fiat currencies have been debased, causing inflation that has hit the working classes especially hard. This excessive printing lead to the revolution in France and Germany going to war. Elites elsewhere in Europe made sure they didn't make the same mistakes, and so the game continues!

[@Xthis1s4youX]

Unfortunately I would say they do not want the same thing at all. Perhaps due to his long standing career as a defender of the current economic and political system, Prof. Laffer is, as Prof. Wolff pointed out, naturalizing the capitalist system. He implies that the employer/employee dichotomy we've grown used to over the last 300 years is inherent to humanity, and that we have somehow reached the end of history, with no way to progress as a society. So what he proposes is a bunch of tweaks here and there to the same system, hoping that it may somehow change anything at all. There are two completely different conversations going on during this debate: - Prof. Wolff is analyzing the history and evolution of economic systems, through the lens of the dominant workplace relationships (master/slave defining slavery, lord/serf defining feudalism, employer/employee defining capitalism), and then proposing what relationship is to be the next dominating one in society; - On the other hand we have Prof. Laffer, who is discarding this analysis completely as "I don't think it will work but i'd love for it to", while in the meantime actively working to undermine the efforts of anyone trying to achieve said society or said workplace relationship. And I mean this quite literally as he has taken part of a few administrations that intervened, both militarily and through the CIA, in the internal affairs of other countries, predominantly in Central America. He contributes to the efforts to remove any socialist or communist platform anywhere as part of the legacy of the Red Scare. He definitely does not want the same thing as Prof. Wolff. When he says "we want the same thing, we just don't agree on how to do it" he is either completely delusional, or does it as a desperate attempt to shut down the conversation as if it's just a petty difference rather than deep baseline divergences. You can see it on Prof. Wolff's face just how absurd he knows this phrase to be But then again the net worth of Prof. Laffer is estimated to be around $8 Million (stockholder and one of the directors of his company), he is one of the primary beneficiaries of the current economic system and therefore most of what he does is part of an effort of self-preservation. It is very difficult to make someone understand something when their career and livelihood is dependent on not understanding it.

[@Trip4man]

My God... What a wonderful debate! Should be on TV and everywhere! I'm in awe really. This is what politicians should be doing... Sit in front of the public, present the numbers and figures, go through the decades and see what's right and wrong. I must congratulate EVERYONE who were part of this! Arthur, Richard and David... Just... UNREAL. This was amazing!!! Thank you all

[@thomassisson3386]

I absolutely enjoyed this debate, very good topic and great guests. Thank you David

[@SamWhitlock]

I don't think I've possibly clicked faster on a youtube notification in my life! 😄

[@erikavarga7060]

Fantastic discussion. Great job David. Part 2 after they read each others books please.

[@itsbaxter2]

Great job, David! This was an amazing debate.

[@cosmicdancer]

I have been following this channel for a few months but only subscribed after seeing this wonderful dialog. Keep up the good work.

[@teragaga]

Absolutely wonderful. Two great thinkers, David sets the tone. It turns out awesome. 💯💯👏👏❤❤

[@huwhitecavebeast1972]

I wouldn't call Wolff a great thinker, a good BS artist maybe.

[@ExPwner]

@@huwhitecavebeast1972 exactly

[@stevencats7137]

@@huwhitecavebeast1972wow great analysis

[@ericmacrae6871]

​@@huwhitecavebeast1972ah yes trickle-down economic as work so well and we see how one of the framer of trickle-down economic refuse to take responsibility for the mess that he has created

[@ExPwner]

@@ericmacrae6871 there was no such mess created. You are again spouting bullshit with no evidence

[@ChrisGenXer]

By far and away, this has been THE best show you’ve done and it was incredible!!! Mainstream media doesn’t do this and you have two titans debating. It was such an awesome show!!! Loved it! Well done David!

[@Brooksie1312]

The look on Prof. Wolff's face when Laffer started talking about Chile and the Chicago Boys.

[@criticalthinker9829]

Dr. Wolf is brilliant

[@midnightrider5797]

One of your best! Really enjoyed these guys! Get them back on soon.

[@rv3022]

Fantastic show!! Thank you, David!!

[@rubenramones3648]

Wonderful interview sir David. Keep them coming.❤

[@walterdamico4592]

A democratic workspace is not an exclusion of a (free) market-systeem

[@Lexman00]

OMG! David you are the MAN for making this debate happen! God bless you brother.

[@envermasud2160]

We've been "hoodwinked by the CEOs who run the corporatocracy - those few corporations that control the vast amounts of capital, land, and resources around the globe - and the politicians they manipulate."

[@tedwong7037]

And arthur is suggesting we should lower their tax and make them richer, so we can follow them and be richer ourselves. LOL

[@AstroTommy66]

That's awesome content David! Love to see two great minds with opposing views debate loudly like that yelling at each other and over each other's voice to get their point across! 😂 More of that kind of debate please, we love it 😊

[@susanlippy1009]

This was a fun debate. It was well worth the listen. This is why I listen to random KZbin videos that pop up. Every now and then you stumble on a gem.

[@pxkii]

My gosh this is the best, an explosion of knowledge. I save it for tonight entertainment.

[@markarbanasin4]

I know there was the fire work exchange here but I really appreciate that the discussion was actually so cordial, both sides brought really solid talking points and obviously have tremendous scholarship behind their sides, and you did an awesome job preparing with strong questions and context to help drive the discussion. Really great content here.

[@arthurzetes]

I just saw Wolff and laffers individual talks and I couldn’t wait for this. So excited to watch!

[@michaelstephens6775]

Very good interview. The bottom line is a capitalist system and well as a Democratic Republic require a moral society. The founders of the United States new that the citizenry had to be moral. It is even more important that our leaders be moral (government or company). I would think most people would say we are lest moral today than just 20 years ago.

[@jd218]

Haft to ask which of the gazillion gender should are moral leaders be? And who chooses decides them? Pretty clear we no longer have elections we have selections

[@robbiecotner3666]

The greatest generation upheld values because their friends died for them. It seems as that generation waned, so did our values.

[@sawsaw7]

I agree with that, but it is ironic since liberal capitalism is (as I see it) one of the main driving forces of the corrosion of moral and values we now see today.

[@andreawhitcher-johnstone3570]

This was NEVER a moral country and never will be until the empire rulers are rubbed out and the descendants of enslaved African people and Indigenous people receive restoration. This empire was founded on slavery and genocide, there’s nothing moral about that.

[@ousamaabdu794]

Commentors... Who do you think won the debate. It was close but I would give the W to Richard Wolff.

[@bcadams75]

Both made sound points. One ideology has never been tried, while the other has been rinsed & repeated but still doesn't work. Removing my personal bias, Wolff was patient & concise, while Art's cognitive dissonance made him keep repeating capitalism's broken record ideology.

[@keithfoster6042]

Nothing close about it.

[@ExPwner]

Nah Laffer wins this one hands down just on the opening clip and Wolff lying

[@TXLionHeart]

Great discussions like this used to be the norm in America; we need to bring that back. Thanks for hosting this fantastic debate! Also, the fact that both men are older than our president, yet 1,000X more intelligent, shows that mental acuity is far more important than age.

[@ericd9827]

And they are 100,000X more intelligent than Trump.

[@robgor482]

Great conversation, thank you gentlemen.

[@markf4968]

Love the debate format David!

[@gurt8161]

Great debate Jeremy ! We need more of this in the senate and house. Straight up debate

[@Kefir1973]

Greetings from Germany! This was a really great debate. Great work!👍

[@josorto9505]

Love this debate. We need more brilliant minds like these two more often.

[@SK-vg3mw]

Thank you for your work Sir! This channel was outstanding already, but you just brought it to the next level! 🔥🔥🔥

[@TheDavidLinReport]

Glad you enjoy it!

[@chrisls6125]

David what a fantastic and eloquent debate, really loved the respect between these two gentlemen. I think the current politicians could take a large leaf from this whichever leaning they derive, especially with the current toxic political climate. Thanks!

[@phoenixmetazoa]

More debates like this please. It would also be interesting to see discussions on nationalism vs globalism, the future of the dollar and other currencies (ie crypto, gold, alternative reserves), and blue state vs red state economics

[@beng4647]

Nationalism vs globalism is just code for Nazi vs Jews. It has just become inappropriate for Nazis to talk about killing Jews in public so they use said words.

[@beng4647]

All countries are nationalist and globalist.

[@listenisrespect1776]

Wow…..wow…wow, what a great debate, thanks so much for bringing this kind of content, this is priceless

[@eminalopatyuk6812]

Debate of debates! Thank you, David.

[@NataliaRoush]

This is one of the most productive discussions I heard. Honest conversations like that would propel humanity in the right direction! This is exactly what we needed to have in the USA. Excellent job David thank you so much!

[@LongDefiant]

Laffer kept mischaracterizing Wolff's position. He kept calling him Chairman Xi while also praising China for it's growth?? Quite embarrassing, TBH.

[@drstreetrunner3438]

Wow, what a fantastic debate. The respect, insight and passion of Richard and Arthur was energizing to me. David was masterful in his moderation. Fantastic conversation.

[@michaelyu6048]

Great balanced discussion by two very knowledgeable professionals

[@fatdoggolovespizza]

And as of this recording you've proven yourself to be a phenomenal and fair moderator as well!

[@frankdefranco9436]

Amazing content! So informative and mind blowing.

[@jamiehou4189]

This debate is exactly what the world needs. Great job.

[@meehanasap]

Love to hear the review of both books

[@jkptsang5803]

Great show, David!

[@ryanbeech6917]

The irony of an intellectual believing he knows how to run the economy better than the individuals themselves is one of life's true ironies

[@karstedt9987]

Liked before I have even watched it... which I pretty much never do. Surprised you actually got these two together, it was a great idea when you were talking to them individually, but somehow I didn't think it would actually happen.

[@andrewgraeme8429]

Superb achievement to get these two giants of economic thinking debating fundamental principles! Nothing out there in the mainstream is as good for quality interviews about finance and economics! Thanks, David!

[@mohammediqbal123]

David absolutely brilliant programme. Two intellectual giants ❤❤❤

[@Charlot1914]

I'm a follower of your channel since day 1. I never commented but this time I felt obligated to. This subject and orators were the best!

[@stella3265]

. If you want to see a great debate watch Ricks debate with Glenn Loury. How civil Rick and Glenn were with each other. Mr Laffer had to defend neoliberal capitalism and its inability dealing with inequality. This discussion would have never have happened 20-30 years ago. The fact that this discussion is happening, and it needs to happen more often, reflects a system that does not work. The Mondrugon corp in Spain is an example of a very successful worker co-op. 7th largest in Spain. Employs 130,000 workers in numerous industries and products since the mid 1950s. The ratio between the highest paid workers to the average worker is roughly 12-1(Mondrugon) In The USA the average(per corporation) 350-400 to 1. That’s just an average.

[@Ouphfta]

Thanks David, great show! It did feel like they both want the same outcome/euphoria. Laffer seems to think the current system can be fixed, and maybe it can short term (micro). However, as Jeff Booth says: "A system problem cannot be solved from the system creating the problem." - Wolff seems to have more of the "macro" mindset.

[@themoonrider351]

The exact opposite is the case. The socialist wants to fix the problems caused by socialists policies with more socialist policies, aka micro manage. The capitalist wants to fix the problems caused by socialist policies by abolishing these policies. Democratizing companies sounds nice until you realize all the bureaucracy that comes along with democratic decision making. Companies need to be nimble and adaptive, but I dont blame the socialist prof for not knowing that. Studying Marx and other abstract literature about macro economics seldom leads to realistic and practical policies.

[@Raelspark]

Wolff may not necessarily be for scraping the whole capitalist system. In many of his talks the big thing he cares about the most is the relationship between the Employer and the Employee. He really believes it's unfair. If that problem can be fixed and made more Fair, I doubt Wolff want to kill and cook the goose that lays the golden eggs --- which can be taxed for social programs.

[@Sandcrackattack]

​@@themoonrider351 it seems you didn't understand what socialism is ... there aren't socialist policies. Any "socialist" policies were implemented by capitalists and their political actor puppets to prevent the volatility and instability of any capitalist system. If economic power, actual power of land, resources, people... were democratic, our political system would become more democratic. We aren't talking about more or less policy and regulation. We are talking about a change in the actual economic system. Capitalist apologists also never acknowledge that ALL capitalist wealth is built on theft exploitation and state violence. Nation states historically developed because of the oppressive needs of royalty and then capitalists. Countries exist because of violence and dominance. I believe most humans, if they experienced a worker coop, would choose to have a say in their well being and how their company ethically operates in their community and beyond. Statistically and historically, whether ya wanna believe it or not, has higher productivity, higher worker-owner morale, safer work spaces. But some peeps rather believe in "dreams" than understand the material realities of systems and how humans relate to one another. It is literally the American dream... to everyone being an owner of the work they do. At the end of the day, capitalist apologists MUST be honest that they are antidemocratic and more champions of dictatorships... boards of dictators (oh sorry it was euphemized as directors). That they believe the majority of humans are beneath or less than a minority of the wealthy, predominantly white straight men. Hey peeps should support what they support. Just when you take pride in a system which relies on violence, theft and exploitation through economic dictatorship, there will be consequences.

[@themoonrider351]

​@@Sandcrackattack Literally checked all the boxes for cultural marxist buzz word bingo when reading your comment. There are in fact socialist policies, just because they have been implemented in a capitalist system by capitalist, doesnt change the nature of the policy. The chinese government has implemented a bunch of capitalistic policies despite being a communist regime on paper. Besides the fact that nobody seems to be able to give a comprehensive descritption about how your anarcho communistic or anarcho syndicalistic system is supposed function in real life, the attempts I have read have about as much to do with democracy as the democratic peoples republic of north korea. But feel free to prove me wrong, descripe your utopian system to me and answer me these three questions: 1. How do you ensure that your ideal system remains socialist / anarcho communist? 2. Will your citizens enjoy human rights and if so, how are you planning to protect those? 3. If you democratize your companies, will employees (in this case also the owners) have to cover for finanical losses the company might suffer?

[@ericmacrae6871]

​@@Sandcrackattackand when you point those things how capitalism is a neo-slavery system they think that you are nuts

[@princeannor7518]

Well done dude, for bringing these two great minds together. Ofcourse very educative and insightful. You said it and you made it happen. Cheers!

[@Eminat-qt2he]

David.. this is so good.. thank you. 🙏

[@jacobogutierrezsanchez]

Thank you for the opportunity to watch this interesting debate!

[@yeuemxuatdoi]

If I have to score this debate, I must give it to professor Wolff on the ground of equality of wealth distribution. The rich CAN NEVER be rich without the poor. Jeff beso became the richest man, because some of his delivery drivers had to pee in bottles to get merchandise to customers on time...

[@EMan-cu5zo]

Large corporations have gotten way to powerful. They need to be brought back to the reality of the rest of the population. They control the government.

[@wasdwasdedsf]

"The rich CAN NEVER be rich without the poor." whats that supposed to mean? and in an opposit of a capitalistic society, the rich can never be richg because the state stole everything from everyone and owns everything "Jeff beso became the richest man, because some of his delivery drivers had to pee in bottles to get merchandise to customers on time..." and in a socialistic society, innovators dont exist and society grinds to a standstill and drives around boxcars like the lada for decades on end furthermore, this current US is in no way capitalistic with an installed marxist vegetable destroying the country at rediculous pace

[@Revocdeb]

@@wasdwasdedsf Horse shit. "the rich can never be rich" is such a silly tautology - might as well ask what came first, the chicken or the egg?

[@frenchonion4595]

The poor of a capitalistic free trade society are FAR better offer than any wealth distribution socialistic society. History shows you this. The wealth distribution of Mao, Pol Pot, Stalin were nightmarish

[@Porelcaminitoyotellevare]

@@wasdwasdedsf All what society have is a product of the collective, not just a business man who randomly is the owner of the corporation and the wealth excedent.

[@fubarbrandon1345]

Props to both of your great guest. Also, to you David for creating such a great channel and providing all the meaningful content that you do. Thank you.

[@TheDavidLinReport]

Thank you for being here!

[@jacobwaddell6075]

Fantastic stuff. Incredibly intelligent men with excellent discourse.

[@doogcat]

Great discussion one of the best ty DL well appreciated.

[@pojack9979]

Respectful discourse. Two gentlemen. We need many more like them.

[@daveh6424]

However, we need less socialists.

[@Legionare]

Richard Wolff is an Educated Idiot ! Please stop indoctrinating kids.

[@samuelcorriveau3216]

Great content, as always !❤

[@luckyfox5627]

Great converstion! Thanks for organising this!

[@bad8brains8]

great discussion! Lovely.

[@micksingh6711]

These guy's are both right and both wrong at the same time. This is absolutely beautiful and brilliant. Thank you all. 👊🏽👍🏽🙏🏽🇮🇳🇬🇧

[@scottmccutcheon9828]

I tend to agree with your comment. Laffer and Wolff didn't even discuss many other essential topics. My question is, why? True capitalism hasn't existed for decades. And neither gentleman acknowledge that fact. And that's only one item they didn't discuss.

[@micksingh6711]

@@scottmccutcheon9828 So well said. When the big bank's f*uk up who bails them out? Socialism is the little people. But otherwise it's Capitalism. Crazy shit.

[@gmw3083]

​@@scottmccutcheon9828 True capitalism has never existed and never will. Big government systems are always morphing to serve chosen groups. Particularly those at the top in maintaining their status. Those at the the bottom currently get to maintain theirs, while more join their ranks. At the end of every epoch, the serpent eats its tail and civilizations crumble.

[@Legionare]

Richard Wolff is an Educated Idiot ! Please stop indoctrinating kids.

[@Stafus]

capitalism is a pyramid scheme that requires infinite population growth on a finite planet.

[@Robyn-Hood]

David what an amazing show🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉

[@aubergineaura9441]

Would LOVE to see you have these 2 debate specific issues, health care, housing, education, transportation, etc., ie, 1 debate for each issue so there's ample time to discuss the issue IN DEPTH.

[@user-mu5hn7yo8q]

Mr. Lin, when I first started watching the video, I considered not watching any more, as I thought it was going to be a shouting match. The video, though, was spectacular. Both gentlemen were incredibly on point, pyrotechnic, and articulate. So, thanks for hosting the debate and posting this video, bit I did want to let you know the opening could be a little misleading for some people who tire of shouting matches. The video isn't anywhere close to that and is extremely civil.

[@NoHomo1776]

END THE FED

[@HobosAteMyLunch99]

You're always going to income inequalities when people are continuing getting pushed along in society while simultaneously having people who are chasing success.

[@jodawgsup]

wow, amazing moderator, just because of that I subbed, what a fruitful and interesting conversation!

[@reaniegane]

David, I don’t know if you realize this, but with this kind of awesome content, you are directly competing with Netflix and prime. I would actually watch this video in a movie theater for a date night with popcorn!

[@TheDavidLinReport]

Best date idea

[@Trip4man]

@@TheDavidLinReport Dude... You should be proud of yourself! It was AMAZING. And yo... You got two Champions of their ideology to level the game. It was great! This is what politicians should be doing you know.... Not that circus we see on tv's

[@reasonerenlightened2456]

@@TheDavidLinReport Arthur Laffer makes me laugh. Having a phone may still make me poor among the living humans but when he compares me to the dead people from long ago, I am richer than all the dead Kings, because none of them had a phone. Comparing the wealth of a living being to a dead being is very useful for the Wealthy.

[@lvincents]

A great debate! A big thanks to all. Arthur is a very pleasant individual. Even so, he is either being intentionally obtuse or he just is obtuse, because he avoided almost all of Dr. Wolff's key points. Instead, Arthur sounded like nothing so much as a politician, always pivoting away from the question they are asked, to their stock "talking points.' In particular, Dr. Wolff never claimed that socialism, as he is describing it, would eliminate markets; quite the contrary, there would still be markets. The only thing that changes is the structure of the workplace. Second, Dr. Wolff also never said that the workplace, once restructured, would lack any hierarchies. Of course there will still be hierarchies. You can have real democracy with hierarchies--namely, the hierarchies that workers DEMOCRATICALLY choose to implement or allow. Third, Dr. Wolff never claimed that his approach would require raising taxes on the rich. Very much the opposite, the goal is to create a system that is fair, or at least fairer, from the very beginning, such that increased taxes for one group are never needed! To Mr. or Dr. Laffer, we are not ignorant; we can see that you are simply spouting talking points. You cannot win a debate, let alone secure any future for capitalism, through talking points. All you will ever do is continue preaching to the already converted devotees of capitalism, who are, as Dr. Wolff points out, a rapidly dying class. The times, they are indeed a changing! We want a fair and equitable society, which means: we no longer want capitalism.

[@bcadams75]

I concur 💯

[@FreeSpeech4All]

We haven't had capitalism for a VERY long time. What Socialists almost always decry as the evils of "capitalism" are actually the evils of cronyism/fascism... namely (and where I agree with Dr. Wolff) where SOME greedy businesspersons co-opt the government (force) to rig the playing field in their favor. Usually this is done through regulatory burdens/licensing/etc. that make it harder for smaller competitors to grow and compete... while the established large businesses have sufficient economies of scale to be able to bear those burdens. The best (albeit not perfect) solution, as the Founders understood, was to decentralize power as much as possible ("to the states and to the people.") It is far easier (and cheaper) to buy off 550 or so politicos in DC than it is to buy off the tens of thousands of state and local politicians. When power is most decentralized, it becomes more profitable to invest in building a better product that consumers will choose voluntarily... than to pay off politicians to create barriers so that consumers will have to choose your inferior product via force/lack of alternatives. Bitcoiners have learned the need for decentralization and that, ultimately, may be it's greatest benefit to society... if people see that what applies to money applies equally to governance.

[@villhelm]

We don’t have capitalism. We have a central bank. Under free market capitalism you can’t have an entity printing money, allocating it arbitrarily and then destroying price discovery. Central banks are a pillar of socialism and they underpin the entire structure of our current system. Our system is closer to fascism or socialism than it is to free market capitalism where true price discovery, hard money and the freedom to choose the medium of exchange would exist.

[@ExPwner]

He directly refuted multiple lies from Wolff

[@bcadams75]

@@ExPwner : "he lied, trust me bro"

[@GA-gd3wi]

Hey David just a suggestion after around 1:10:00 when the conversation became heated there could have been some more intervention from you as a moderator to organize speaking times. It felt like you had disappeared here. Otherwise great job with this presentation!

[@amywalton4201]

Great debate thankyou!

[@XellossBoi]

So interesting! Thank you for this!

[@btccoins5514]

By the way, Ronald Regan made a legal for stock buy backs, before Regan it was illegal