CAPPADOCIAN FATHERS BY MORWENNA LUDLOW

[@stevesmith7839]

Thank you for explaining this.

[@frankdsouza2425]

Gregoryt700, I would dearly love to read any treatise or paper that you have written, listen to any podcast you have presented, or watch and video you have uploaded. If you have not yet done any of these things, please urgently consider doing so. Thank you.

[@tonyforeman9502]

How annoying. It stops not only in the middle, but mid-sentence.

[@benc6537]

From what was said there it doesn't sound like Eunomius' anomoios argument that the son is begotten was adequately dealt with.

[@gerryquinn5578]

This short clip says it all. The Cappadochian Fathers were instumantal in developing the doctrine of the Trinity as it is today, A doctrine unknown to the Jews and to Jesus and his disciples.

[@Joeonline26]

A silly remark.

[@gerryquinn5578]

@@Joeonline26 : What makes you say that ?

[@StefanTravis]

Very nicely explained. Though the irony of saying "God can't be defined, so we define him as _this_" could use amplification. I studied this stuff in seminary - it took a solid week, and by the end a lot of us were developing small crises of faith.

[@misha49ish]

what kinds OK crises?

[@StefanTravis]

The kind that come from trying to define the trinity, and discovering _all_ the comprehensible answers you can think of are heresies. Modalism, patripassionism, sabelianism, unitarianism...

[@Gregoryt700]

The 3 Hypostases in 1 Nature or Essence is still an apophatic statement -- NOT a definition by any means

[@Gregoryt700]

That is to say -- and here the underpinnings of apophatic theology or belief in the incomprehensibility of the Divine Nature or Essence (substance is a bad translation of ουσία ) is utterly crucial -- the Trinity in the final analysis remains a mystery. The terminology that IS used must be faithful to this mystery, the Three in Oneness that remains, in the final analysis, the One God of Scripture. Attempts that overly attempt to rationalize this are bound to fail; and, indeed, after nearly a century of reflection the Church ultimately decided that only the homoousios could faithfully portray the Oneness of the Trinity. Anything else -- even homoios -- does not present a true Trinity, but rather a sort of Neoplatonic hierarchy of Divine beings. Conversely, simply equating God with the Father is of course not a Trinity, either. But the language still remains paradoxical and apophatic, and thus the mystery is preserved.

[@StefanTravis]

Gregoryt700 _"the Trinity in the final analysis remains a mystery"_ You mean, the term is meaningless.

[@tomidomusic]

The idea that God's existence relies on any substance would make Him subject to or 'of that' substance. Hence we have a challenge to God's aseity which is heretical (the trinity).

[@fiazmultani]

O FOLLOWERS of the Gospel! Do not overstep the bounds [of truth] in your religious beliefs, [180] and do not say of God anything but the truth. The Christ Jesus, son of Mary, was but God's Apostle - [the fulfillment of] His promise which He had conveyed unto Mary - and a soul created by Him. [181] Believe, then, in God and His apostles, and do not say, "[God is] a trinity". Desist [from this assertion] for your own good. God is but One God; utterly remote is He, in His glory, from having a son: unto Him belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is on earth; and none is as worthy of trust as God. - ​ @1 (Asad)

[@andys3035]

"As long as you say Christ is the Word of God and Spirit, why do you accuse us of being associators? For the word and spirit is inseparable from that in which it naturally has it's existence. Therefore, if the Word of God is in God, then it is obvious he is God. If however, He is outside of God, then according to you, God is without word and without spirit. Consequently, by avoiding the introduction of an associate with God, you have mutilated Him. It would be far better to say that He has an associate than to mutilate Him, as if you were dealing with a stone or a piece of wood or some other inanimate object. Thus you speak untruly when you call us associators; we retort by calling you mutilators of God." St. John of Damascus