Captain Plugins "Epic" versus "Scaler 2" | Who are they for?

Continuing my series on helper apps, these are 2 of the most popular tools for chord progressions and midi generation. Whether to inspire new ideas of provide music theory without having to learn theory, these apps have a useful purpose for producers and musicians. In this video, I’ll highlight the strengths and weaknesses of each product and demo their capabilities. I include a useful comparison chart and summarize my findings at the end.
#CaptainChords #Scaler2 #chordprogressions
Music Helper Apps | Are they AI? • Music Helper Apps | Ar...
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📖 Chapters
00:00 Intro - are they AI?
00:53 Captain Plugins Epic has 5 apps as a suite
02:01 Comparison Chart - First Cut
02:19 Captain Chords - Quick Demo
07:51 Captain Beat - adding a drum beat
08:42 Captain Deep - adding a bass line
09:51 Captain Melody - adding a random melody
11:19 Comparison Chart - 2nd Cut
11:32 Scaler 2 by comparison
13:07 Scaler 2 - Detect Mode
14:12 Scaler 2 - Instrument Sounds & Guitar View - Songs & Artists
18:00 Scaler 2 - Suggest Mode
18:53 Comparison Chart - 3rd Cut
19:09 Scaler 2 - performance options
20:20 Comparison Chart - Final
20:46 Summary of comparison
23:23 Support the channel and subscribe!
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[@lahatski]

Thank you so much for this super useful review!

[@ZeekBurse]

Dude!!! This was so thorough! Thanks for taking the time to do this!!! 🔥🔥🔥🔥

[@_BassX]

This is the PERFECT video I was looking for! I'll be getting Scaler, thank you so much!

[@MrTwentytwin]

I also have both. I prefer scaler because I actually learn using scaler. Epic, makes me lazy, but I get the job done. I’ve been using scaler since it dropped. Thanks for the video!

[@tstrepp]

Thank you SOOO much! Great review! I love your gentle, intelligent, slower paced style. You absolutely helped me make my decision (Scaler 2 for my use case). I subscribed to your channel and look forward to learning more from you

[@Halcyon111]

Great review, very informative and fair. I have both. I like Captain plugins beat machine and melody idea generator, but I like Scaler 2 more for chords and progressions, and detection of chords in songs. They are both great tools.

[@ScottFichterrRandom]

I'm sold on Scaler 2. I question why the developers of these programs focus on adding all the synth sounds. If chords are the primary delivery who cares about synth patches.

[@KevKlopper]

Some chords work better on some instruments and worse on others. It is there to give you a quick idea if your vision works.

[@lukather1]

Definitely don’t need the synth sounds should stick to functionality ease of use and additional content

[@Jellybeantiger]

Have both. Scaler confusing and Captain Chords has a latency that is unusable in Cubase. Looking for something better.

[@BenCaesar]

I like the on board sounds. It helps idea generation for me. But I hear your point

[@Vercoquin64]

Thanks. You've sold me on buying scalar on 3 arguments: guitar, AI and helping to learn music theory. 🙏🏼

[@adr7657]

Really nice video Jeffy ! 🙌🏻🔥

[@anselmmartyn5256]

I found it very good. I have a music backgroung and own both the above products but have commenced only recently to explore Captain plugins and have not yet started with Scaler 2. Your video was very informative. thanks Anselm

[@K.P.R.13]

Excellent job! Thank you. I have Scaler 2 - extensively functional, but I feel a bit of a challenge to master. I was looking at other chord generating options that would be easier to use. I was considering Captain Chords Epic and Audiomodern's CHORDJAM. Thanks to your video, I'm choosing Scaler 2 over Captain Chords Epic, hands down. I'm an old-school classic-rock singer-songwriter with no music theory training nor a particular ability to play any instrument well, but I write my songs (music and lyrics), clearly hearing the arrangements in my head - the drums and bass parts, the melody, and all sorts of other instruments, what I need is to find what key/scale my songs are in, then find interesting, fitting, chords to use. Looks like Scaler 2 is the best plugin for my needs.

[@CryptoDefender]

Excellent review! Sub'ed. Thank you so much.

[@lukather1]

You can go to midi settings on the project and check the chase midi button to make Logic play all midi notes ! ❤️

[@SergioBlackDolphin]

Thank you. You really made me think Scaler 2 is the best choice for me too. A bit more complicated, Scaler 2, and I don't want to learn theory, but I like the "AI like suggestions" that I think I really need. Now it is about deciding which add on offered on promotion!

[@WezTuppeny]

Great reviews Jeffy, definitely deserved a sub after watching this. I was looking at Epic myself as I make Trance music and when that dreaded writers block hits I thought it could help along a load of new creative ways but then making them my own changing things in my style. So brilliant review plus a big bonus you use logic which I have recently moved over to from Ableton and 2 years of Pro Tools in University and noticed not many people teach Logic on here except 2 I do watch so now your the 3rd. Keep them coming!!

[@JeffyG]

Lots of DAW experience.

[@itskurious]

Thank you for taking the time to make a thorough review on these products! Both look great, but Scaler 2 takes the cake for me. I've relied long enough on my ears so I'm looking for a tool that will further my understanding of music theory while simultaneously help me pump out more music.

[@JeffyG]

It’s good for that!

[@rosewurkz]

Thanks, this is very helpful ☺️🙏

[@2granular853]

Hi Jef! Thank you for your nice reviews.I don't have any musical background despite my devotion to electronic music and sound design... In fact I have both product cause of my addiction to music gadgets. But thank to your video I can what exactly does each of them and thank to your professional input I know where to go better. Thank you, Merry Xmas

[@desoconnor7445]

Great review ..I use both epic and Scaler as composition aids..they have similar and differing attributes.👍

[@ThatsJustMyBabyDaddy]

This was epic. ❤

[@johnnytequila5646]

Great video, thank you

[@hansai89]

great channel and videos!

[@JeffyG]

Thank you!

[@P_BLZ]

Great video and very helpful, thanks for that. Also, you mention that theres an issue that may be unique to Logic that the cycle seems to always start on bar 2 when using Epic but I also, get the same issue when using Ableton Live 11 on my Mac Studio running Monterey. I just thought it maybe beneficial for you to know :)

[@aj4u22]

Thank you for that review. I decided to subscribe just because of the review.

[@JeffyG]

Thanks for the sub!

[@agentcalm]

Great vid my friend. I got scaler a few months ago and haven't really used it due to the fact that it's not all that intuitive. It looks a great tool but it's by no means a piece of cake to figure out on your own. The good news is that the makers of Scaler have brought out a beginners course covering all the basics and its only around 15 US. I got the course and for sure it's a great help. It's key detection is superb. Not only does it tell what key your melody is in but it also offers other keys which will also work. And it gives you the chords of all of those keys. You can also assign chords to be played by pressing a sing key on the keyboard. Great if like me you're not a piano player. So I can see scaler being very useful to my song writing.

[@JeffyG]

Scaler 2 has a learning curve. I signed up for the $15 course as well - I need the refresher!

[@AllOneKind]

@@JeffyG can I use Scaler as midi thru if I want it to send the midi to other better synths or even mute the instrument in Scaler? I'm using Reaper and I'm worried about the setup with Scaler in this Daw as well, not much info yet in youtube how Scaler works in Reaper...?

[@jeffagoddard]

@@AllOneKind in Logic - there is a midi FX slot on every channel strip, so yes, Scaler w generates the midi but you can use any VSTi to accept the midi. Even in the scaler demos you often see them using NI Komplete synths, sample instruments, etc. Any virtual instrument will work. Not exactly sure where you plug-in a midi instrument in Reaper.

[@Jellybeantiger]

Yea,Scaler 2 is horrible to use. Might get the Captain Chords epic. Nothing but frustration with Scaler 2.

[@nukenoly8751]

All good helper tools. Even the Pilot plugins have a place in my productions 😊

[@jimbrightman6672]

I got both, and im happy with it. Sometimes use the more "quick" features of Captain, e.g. finding a base line, or beat. Thats awesome ! Scaler is a bit more complex and needs more learning to get used to it, where the functions are, and what they do. Big hint : Captain NEEDS an internet-connection to work !! If that is a problem for you (for me not) then you should avoid...

[@JeffyG]

I have both too!

[@daytekblue]

Great presentation...I favour scaler myself...

[@luvitluvitbaby]

I have both lol! I’m going to reintroduce myself to the Captain suite. I left alone in favor of Scaler 2

[@JD-lb8nl]

Thanks

[@jeffreykasbohm7685]

Thanks much for your overview! Very helpful. I own both. Have found Scaler very frustrating. Very classical music oriented, has many, produces many unexpected changes and results, key changes absolutely out of no where...very frustrating - can be hard to undo, even harder to figuer out where the H they came from....Captain - for me, for more modern production, modern genres is 10 x more useful. Neo soul and jazz potential in Scaler is powerful but I have to have the time to dive in. Both have their place. THanks again brothe!r!

[@jeanchindeko5477]

5:37 this is Logic default setting, you can fix it in your project midi configuration

[@JeffyG]

Thanks -

[@johnkemp3592]

Really helpful review thank you. Recently I almost bought Chordjam, but luckily I tried the demo version and was pretty disappointed. The epic suite seems a bit to paint-by-numbers compared to what I want - That's maybe a harsh comment but hopefully you get my gist. Scaler 2 seems to be exactly what I am looking for plus a lot lot more than I expected.

[@JeffyG]

There are a bunch - ChordJam, Chordify, Hookery, etc. I'm sticking with Scaler 2.

[@MIxstarsOnline]

I use them both together

[@nickert0n]

This video is fucking awesome, exactly what I was looking for Thank you

[@MrRon33]

Jeff, thank you for your review. Can I use my 3r party plugins with Scaler? Thanks for your help, Ron

[@JeffyG]

Yes! You’re not limited to the instruments/sounds in Scaler. It has a midi device to generate midi for any VST. What DAW are you using?

[@MrRon33]

@@JeffyG, Logic Pro X

[@GodAtum]

the big question ... which generator sounds better out of the box? scaler 2 makes nice pattersn, not sure about captain

[@LeeRaldar]

I have only used Scaler, you don't need to use the built in instruments as playback can be routed to a virtual instrument track.

[@danilzao]

thank you. definitely leaning to scaler. though, do you know of any drum generators? i think that's where i lack exp and want a helper app. next on my watch list are demos of XO by xln audio

[@JeffyG]

I have XO, Atlas, Playbeat 3 and a few other drum apps that all come with pre-delivered patterns, but my go to is Logic Drum Machine Designer. Beats and patterns are often available as midi (some free, some in packs) that you can just drag into your DAW.

[@danilzao]

@@JeffyG thank you for your reply! love the content

[@lukather1]

You can also go into settings and change to follow midi in logic

[@JeffyG]

Yep. That addresses the midi lag.

[@imusiccollection]

Please discuss "the instrument" the bassline and chords generator, by Phil Speiser! Guys?

[@michail_777]

Whether Captain is an AI or not can be answered by the producers themselves. You just have to know how to ask the right questions. Ask them: if it is generating MIDI files, what model do they use? And is there any way to see information about this model?

[@johnisrael5183]

I like Scaler better...seems to be more straight to point

[@adrianlara5045]

fl studio does the same with Addictive XO(skipping bar one beat 1)

[@JeffyG]

Interesting. I have an open ticket with Epic. They first denied the issue, until I sent them a video of it happening.

[@joshveldman9046]

@@JeffyG Did they resolve it?

[@jeffagoddard]

@@joshveldman9046 No. They suggested some setting changes in Logic, without any other ideas. I could tell the support person did not know Logic and did not really understand the problem. If you quantize in Logic, the chords fall on bar 1, beat 1, tik 1, {1 1 1 1} and don't play. If you nudge the first midi notes to 1 1 2 1 they execute correctly. That nudge is so minor, it doesn't affect the timing of your song. I've seen this with other plugins too but can't determine if the issue is in Logic or not. Any midi generated from Logic's delivered tools and m,any, many other 3rd party plugins doesn't seem to have the problem.

[@joshveldman9046]

@@jeffagoddard It's probably a midi to DAW clock thing as you suspect. And probably no one is motivated to resolve it.

[@tranquilitybase6417]

No captain epic on iPadOS

[@Mixtapemusix1]

Captain epic needs the internet it’s not so epic

[@elvennet9972]

Indeed!

[@yaoguangtang1759]

Thanks,I already have scaler2 , now I don't need to buy Epic.

[@JeffyG]

Take a look at my latest video on Ripchord! Free, easy, fun 🤩

[@yaoguangtang1759]

I just finished watching your video introduction about Rapichord. Thank you.

[@BenCaesar]

The only thing with Scaler is the performance names are all Italian 😂

[@JeffyG]

Ha ha ha. True!

[@ArthurKlisiewicz]

I got both of them. Scaler GUI really sucks. To dark and unreadable. Because of that I rarely use it. It was waste of money.

[@JeffyG]

Captain Epic has a more friendly UI but I have no problem with Scaler and use it both on my MacBook and my iPad.

[@ArthurKlisiewicz]

@@JeffyG I like Scaler concept but not the Interface, which on 4k screen sucks. Most developers do not have skills to build usable interface, despite they know programing.

[@Michael_Lak]

This is the first plugin ever that doesnt work in reaper. No explanation given.

[@JeffyG]

Wow! Thanks for sharing that important insight.

[@AllOneKind]

Which one doesnt work in reaper Scaler or Captain chords?

[@lib747]

Unfortunately, I found out that Captain Epic is an internet based service, and not a plugin that runs on my computer. This rather huge requirement is not clearly stated anywhere, and that says a lot about the integrity of this developer. I haven't opened it since, and will not give another penny to them. On the other hand, Scaler rocks!

[@Michael_Lak]

Even people in 3rd world countries have constant internet access, you must be doing it tough.

[@lib747]

@@Michael_Lak I'll take your word for it :) ...my issue isn't the internet connection though. I have a problem sending my data to the cloud, as it's my data, and "Captain" has no business with it. As a software developer, I feel qualified to say that there's absolutely nothing "epic" that these plugins do that requires an internet connection or the "Cloud", so why does "captain" want our data?

[@martjay]

Your head is beating like crazy

[@JeffyG]

Nah… I’ll show you crazy in another video.

[@UnchartedWorlds]

​@@JeffyG hahah great comment 😂👏👏👏

[@eyeque7]

I have both of these plugins and honestly can’t stand either of them. It’s all shit

[@유로댄스]

Scaler 2

[@NUEVAVIDA24]

I PURCHASE CAPTAIN CORD THE MAIN PROBLEM I HAD WAS RANNING SLOW THAT WAS THE REASON I STOP USIN THE PROGRAM 6 MONTH AGO I TRY AGAIN NOW EVEN WORTH NO IMAGE SHOW NEVER BEEN UPDATE ASKING ME TO UPGRADE I TRY SCALER NO PROBLEM.