Really an "EPIC" update? Captain Epic Plugins Walkthrough

It's been 2 years since I last looked at Mixed In Key's Captain Plugins so have they come far since version 5 and is the new version really "Epic"? MIK sent me over a copy to try out and in this video I wanted to give you a full walkthrough of the new features, all the things I like about the plugins and some that I'm really not keen on!
00:00 - Introduction
01:14 - Captain Chords
02:08 - New Chord Progressions
03:20 - Chord Inversions
04:20 - Chord Complexity
04:57 - New Editing Notes
05:51 - New Rhythms
08:24 - WHERE IS THE SWING?!
09:26 - New Build-in Sounds
11:13 - Phase Plant Sounds
12:50 - VST Instrument Hosting
14:16 - Captain Chords Verdict
14:59 - Captain Deep
15:27 - Deep's Rhythms
15:57 - Editing Basslines Manually FINALLY!
17:44 - Chord Overlay
18:02 - Captain Deep Verdict
18:40 - Captain Beats... oh dear
22:29 - Beats Verdict
23:36 - Captain Melody
25:21 - Melody Layouts
26:18 - Shape Control
27:39 - Rhythm Controls
28:37 - Captain Melody Verdict
29:02 - TIP Importing Midi Files
32:00 - Captain Play
32:51 - Mapping The Keyboard
33:48 - My Verdict on Captain Epic
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[@DirtySecretz]

Bit of a long one this I know but it is 5 plugins in one so wanted to do it justice! Let me know what you're thinking to the new version below :)

[@BassamAbusamra]

This is the kind of video that actually help in making correct decision before buying a piece of gear. Thank you.

[@tobytodelafontena]

Absolutely.

[@scorpionleader1967]

It helped me save my money.

[@mhhollomon]

FYI - Phase Plant is the soft synth made by Kilohearts. The sounds marked as (PP) look like they are all factory presets that come with Phase Plant.

[@AutPen38]

I mostly watch videos of less than 10 minutes on here, but this one kept me engrossed for much longer. It was very helpful in explaining the various features of this suite of plugins and I like that there's no obvious bias in your review, as you explained the good and bad points in a way that seems honest and real. Nice one!

[@soniksaint3008]

I don’t think you need these plugins to be a sound module or even have any built in fx. You can just use one good piano for chords, good bass and and one or two drum kits and then transfer to whatever you like to use. You can add the swing afterwards. I think the price is super reasonable for all of these plugins and it’s an amazing tool for inspiration.

[@DirtySecretz]

They are a reasonable price but I think if you're going to offer progressions and rhythms in something like this then you have to account for the fact that not all music lacks swing. You can of course add it afterwards but it really seems like an oversight not to have that in there.

[@linzenmeyer]

@@DirtySecretz It would be nice if you dropped it on a track with midi that it would auto read and edit those notes....doesn't seem to be very useful as a VST...it's basically a stand-alone with minimal daw interaction.

[@gm0n3yz]

Well said. Their focus should be more on the midi and beat features than the actual sounds.

[@DirtySecretz]

I’ve always said it’s better to keep it simple and do it well than try and do everything. Producers will already have the sounds they want to use, just make it as easy as possible to route the midi into those.

[@gawni1612]

Subbed, videos that tear apart the UX of plugins are RARE. You are a GEM, sir!

[@alsoulmusic]

I've upgraded and I like the new features. That is mainly because of how I was using it before. For my workflow I've enjoyed Captain Chords for quickly building chord progressions. Everything else is gravy. It is much easier add notes and do inversions so that is even more up my alley. I really didn't use the rhythmic stuff before. I might end up using the other modules a bit more often now. Of course it is not everyone's cup of tea.

[@1964Marido]

Thank you for showing also the nice secrets, not only the dirty ones and I found your channel this way 🙃. The rewiew was really helpfull, I tried a view similar Midi-Chordcontroller before, but not everything is really intuitive, organized or working with every DAW….like my Logic Pro X, that sometimes requires some esoteric Midi-routing. I think it will be worth trying for me for a few really helpfull issues. Thanks for showing up this in a good video!

[@conorjake-rw1ct]

There is a swing knob ! Humanize . I like this pluginn !!!

[@linzenmeyer]

I was also going to say, I don't see that as a big deal if it didn't, because if you are using the groove pool in Ableton, you probably want to wait until you export the midi so you can apply an appropriate Groove to match the project.

[@e.d.8215]

Thank you for the informative video. In my opinion, Swing should be set in the DAW. The integrated sounds only serve as an example/preview, unless it has been routed to a VST plug-in. I don't find this so tragic. You are right about Captain Beats, of course they could simply ad midi files. But here it's more comfortable. The sounds are always assigned to the right notes in the preview and you don't have to search in any folders. As inspiration or due to a lack of knowledge, I find Captain Beats quite nice. Of course, there are much better programmes like Playbeat. But all in all, I have to say that it is very tiring to work with these or similar plug-ins. Especially the presets are mostly the usual standard chord sequences.

[@CornellPhillip]

I see Captain Plugins Epic as an idea pad. I don’t think it was made to rival any professional DAW or sound module. It was meant for chord, melody and bass ideas and it think it does it very well. After putting the idea together I most likely would edit the finer details to my liking. I like it for what it’s meant to do, help create ideas.

[@garycummingsjr.6896]

It gets interesting when you run scaler through caption chords. You can also drag in your own midi and pay with different keys and rhythms. Plus add different bass lines to midi you already have.

[@lukather1]

Drag and drop ?

[@cachelesssociety5187]

It stopped working for me. Captain deep won't even sync properly. So much wasted time.

[@desoconnor7445]

Brilliant tutorial of a great musical resource. I totally agree with in relation the need for a swing function👍🎵🎵

[@VentureNW]

Completely understand what you mean. I have Instacomposer and Blue Cat's Patchwerk to direct it in the places I need it in Ableton and I have never bothered to wrap my brain around it much, as I use Scaler all the time and sometimes I use Melody Sauce which is just down right easy to use. I would add though, I never use the sounds in any of these, as I just take the midi and drop it on my plugin instrument's track.

[@vcodev108]

I think they heard your voice, now captain plugin added swing to all their plugins, please do an updated review that would be awesome!!!

[@Amatteus]

Excelent review.. Will follow you. Thanks.

[@tendingtropic7778]

Thank you, great video! what in your opinion is the best plugin for coming up with ideas/chords/melodies? This? or scaler 2? or toontrack stuff? or something else? also: can you also export the midi sequences from the captain plugins to your daw? you didnt cover that in your video

[@DirtySecretz]

I don't think there is really a 'best' plugin for chords/melodies, I think it's just whichever you find you like using most really. For me I tend to use either Chordjam or Scaler 2 for chords and Riffer for melodies. I don't use them for every project, just occasionally if I get stuck or need inspiration. You can export midi from the Captain plugins, I'm pretty sure it's in their tutorial videos but I'm not really sure I've use the plugins since this video 😕

[@javierbza]

Best review ever!

[@devarni]

I agree with you. I actually only find Captain Chords interesting. With it, you can really quickly find suitable chord progressions and then build the rest based on that. Deep, Beat or Melody I found rather not so helpful and the results partly even very strange. Scaler2 I had tested once, but I found it too complicated. IMO Captain Chords Epic is better and easier to use.

[@daviHuggMonster]

I got it a few months before the epic upgrade and actually upgraded it (reduced price) it is a nice starting point but as you mentioned it the beat plugin is so old school.

[@RobbieStyles]

A totally honest review! I got Captain when it first came out. Saw the potential but as you mentioned it does feel limited, even with all the upgrades since. Now you have to pay for the latest upgrade, its a no from me.

[@DirtySecretz]

Yeah it’s tricky as to whether it’s worth the upgrade. There’s some great new features but then again some stuff missing so it’s hard to say at the moment!

[@gregorioportela]

I also missed the humanization and swing feature, waiting for an update to fix it, otherwise I'm happy with the captain

[@massimogurinidj7318]

Few friends and me made a drinking game with this video. Everytime you say however we drink. 3 people died.

[@DirtySecretz]

🤣🤣🤣

[@haro82]

For the swing issue you can always just move the midi to your daw and apply the swing there.

[@BFHPET]

how is the deep compared to bassdragon?

[@99985cc]

So is your recommendation scaler 2?

[@Tekmatic]

I've not checked for updates recently, but I agree with you about the general experience with the Captain plugs suite. It looked promising, but after purchasing and playing around with it, I'm underwhelmed.

[@DirtySecretz]

Parts of me want to really love it and if I just use it for that it's great but there's a few places where I hit a wall with it and then have to export midi or whatever to fix it. It's frustrating because I know it can be great, just simple things stopping it from being it for me

[@Swiftopher755]

Agreed

[@ralphnelson-tucker8186]

Am I right in that swing is now available but only in the Mac version?

[@DirtySecretz]

I’ve not tried the new version yet but that’s great news if it has!

[@ralphnelson-tucker8186]

@@DirtySecretz Unless you're on Windows! Andy from Mixedinkey says the Windows and Mac versions have "different development paths". For me, this is bad project management, as I bought the product based on the advertising which said it had the Humanise / Swing facility, which the Windows version doesn't. Ho hum: export and swing instead I guess. Overall however I am enjoying the apps. That said, I agree with your comment that Beats is a bit useless, as most of us have a better drum synth. Rock on!

[@GodAtum]

will you make an updated review? for example, they've added swing back in kzbin.info/www/bejne/i3rKaaOsq8qUjq8si=2VfSPJoWpmPE_u8k&t=590

[@eri7-11]

The new version can now add swing right?

[@hettovennik2887]

Did they (re)implement swing? cheers

[@lelloscavone]

Sorry but I believe that especially in captain beats the fundamental function is missing, that is to be able to create chorus, pre-chorus, verse etc…. in the first version there was, where is it here?

[@DirtySecretz]

Yeah, it seems like another feature that wasn't brought over into the new version. It's possible they asked their users what features were most used and perhaps that was one that wasn't but it could well be another one they haven't implemented yet.

[@treyhudson73]

They are bringing it back, I believe, but it was a user input decision. Maybe it will be a option you can toggle.

[@Spineloro]

Swing cursor is an Epic oversight indeed😂 but can be easily corrected in daw, but I like how this plugin is limited as it gives me some ideas like sketching if I feel lazy or in lack of creativity and it boosts me enough to go back to Logic as I have a good Music Theory knowledge but my brain & hands are not always following my ears on my midi keyboard for e.g. inversions and scales🤪 if it was too good I would feel useless ! 😮

[@lukather1]

So how do you think it compares to scaler ?

[@DirtySecretz]

For me Scaler is more about performing chords whereas Captain Chords is more about arranging those chords (although there is Captain Play for doing similar). It''s down to personal taste which one is better for you though, you'll only know by trying them both out. The new update has made me warm to the Captain plugins more but my go-to is still Scaler or Chordjam.

[@djbonne1]

Hello budy, how are you? Do they all come in one package?

[@DirtySecretz]

Yes all in one suite

[@sonsofmedusa]

How the hell do you run this plugin in Pro Tools?

[@nieuweabnormaal5869]

I bought the upgrade. Now it is bugging me i cannot use the old Captain plugin, must update. So that is not nice.

[@DirtySecretz]

That sounds weird, I’d contact their support because surely you should be able to use both versions if installed.

[@Blakar]

They are separate VSTs (at least on Windows), I can load both old and new without issue, if you haven't gotten this fixed yet definitely try again

[@K.KILLORAN]

I have the last version and the best part was the ability to toggle sections as you built chords, like prechorus, verse, etc…. Then when you opened one of the other plugins like captain deep or melody, they would communicate with each other so that the same song sections were there in tabs as well. If that’s not included then I wouldn’t use it and it seems like the dumbest omission I can imagine.

[@DirtySecretz]

From what I've heard it was one of the least used features when they surveyed users however they are supposedly adding some of these features back in down the road - no idea when though

[@cachelesssociety5187]

The plugin is still frustrating to try to use. I was hoping the kinks would be worked out. They seem to go "more complex" without solving basic usability issues, like the issue you mentioned Either changing the rhythm or a chord throws a single octave way out of range of the progression - one would think that the plugin would, like scaler 2 does, have a basic comprehension of "voice leading no nos", and not use them as its first attempt at an import. This makes quickly auditioning chords and rhythms dysfunctional.

[@ritchxmusic]

Swing is essential, can't believe they left it out

[@cachelesssociety5187]

Absolutely!

[@Rehbet]

The Epic upgrade might be good, but I'm not giving them any more money. This might be worth it now, but personally, I've purchased a few "upgrades" for this plugin before and feel burned. If anything, get Mixed In Key Studio edition and leave it at that, AND NEVER UPGRADE.

[@EndreOttem]

Great video. Everything that came out of the Captain plugins sounded really, really, really bad. I doubt the developers have a deep knowledge of music theory, and I got the same impression from looking at other reviews. Instead of adding features, they should focus on making the software musical.

[@DirtySecretz]

I honestly haven't found a midi generator plugin that is perfect, I tend to dip in and out of Scaler, Chordjam, Riffer and Captain Chords but most often finishing ideas off manually. I think if you can accept that non are perfect and that they're good for sparking ideas then they can be useful - just not a one-stop shop.

[@EndreOttem]

@@DirtySecretz I have managed to get a some good chords and progressions to get my creativity going from Scaler when I’ve been all out of ideas. It’s the only «chord generator plugin» I have tried though. For some reason, I keep going back to watching reviews of the Captain plugins. I think it’s because I want them to be something they’re not. Also, the plugins look really nice. They’ve done a great job on the GUI (the design, I can’t comment on the functionality). I believe they have some really good ideas for making a suite of creativity plugins, but the musical output seems a bit off to me. I really appreciate your honest review. It revealed some shortcomings in the plugins that I weren’t aware of. 😊

[@tobrsun]

I don't get why they charge you $49.50 extra to upgrade to epic as a previous user when new users don't have to pay that upgrade price at all, I feel like they only get away with it because their plugins are catered to beginners who aren't used to buying plugins.

[@wildnwoolley3113]

Looks like ultraloop.

[@PavanMS87]

I guess Orb plugins are better than Captain plugins. Personal opinion

[@Kieran_Vigrass]

I bought this yesterday, I wish I had seen this post first ☹ It is the most disappointing plug I have ever bought, just hope I can get a refund. 🤔

[@conorjake-rw1ct]

I think its a good one for ideas .

[@AFRoSHEENT3ARCMICHAEL69]

I mean they never said it was an Epic update. Think they just now call it Epic. Need to stop swinging and straighten out. Seems to me ike they know what's up. Swinging adds depth which is curved and the curve is the curse. Naw mean? Probably not. Do you understand these words we use for music and it's connection to other words pertaining to reality? Like inverting the polarity when literally Everything is polar? How do you think birds are able to find the North Pole? Cause everything is polar. What happens when you stop swinging and let it straighten? Gamma.

[@vroteg]

“Phaseplant I guess some kind of instrument maker” are you just came back from mars or had amnesia? Phaseplant some kind of instrument maker… if you don’t know what is Phaseplant or in fact Kilohearts who is maker of instrument called Phaseplant you shouldn’t even touch music. On the other hand you are user of crapelton and you all users of crapelton in denial anyway…

[@DirtySecretz]

Not sure where that resentment comes from but I don't think that because I haven't heard of one VST that I "shouldn't even touch music". It's comments like that that put beginner producers off and creators from not wanting to put something out in the world. You have your opinion, you're welcome to it and I'm thick skinned enough to not let it worry me but putting this negativity out into the world doesn't exactly make you look great. You don't need to put other people down to make yourself feel better.

[@EndreOttem]

I’ve been a musician, a gear slut and a VST hoarder for decades. I’ve never heard of Phaseplant either. I don’t know why you’re hyping it up, or why you are being so rude about it. Oh, and it’s named «Phase Plant» not «Phaseplant». I don’t think it matters, but thought I should mention it because I guess you probably shouldn’t touch music without knowing that.

[@lukather1]

He’s just one of those spouty dicks who fuckin pops up unwanted to make a shit comment. ! Forget him ! ❤

[@InfrdMusic]

wtf is this comment lol