Card Counting Scenes in TV Shows (Pros React)

Colin & Loudon Ofton two professional blackjack players are back to watch scenes from popular movies & TV shows about card counting. Watch as they give their professional commentary on how card counting is depicted in mainstream media.
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0:00 Intro
0:18 The Last Casino
4:32 The Simpsons
6:27 Malcom in the Middle
7:53 Numb3rs
9:34 The Mentalist
12:25 Learn More

[@KBlanca513]

I love that The Simpsons is the one that gets it right.

[@DwazeHoer]

I know this is an older comment but they do serious research on topics. The chess episode is extremely good with every game played being an actual historical game. Every board position they show is a realistic position or more likely a position from a famous game in the past.

[@itmthy9420]

@@DwazeHoer the Simpsons is such a great show

[@aarronwilson5647]

@@DwazeHoer They literally just copied the documentary.

[@punishedwhispers1218]

If only they got anything else right

[@yasharodin6076]

@@punishedwhispers1218 yikes

[@chrisfinch8637]

I laughed my head off, when Hal just gives back his $5,000 to that head security guard! Should’ve left that alone, and be forbidden to enter the casino again, bud!

[@scottleggejr]

Show me a head of security who would put a fingerprint on that bill though...

[@guibox3]

In all fairness to The Mentalist, I believe he was memorizing all the cards and not counting them because he is that kind of character, but i think he was there for a purpose to expose that dealer, not to play basic strategy.

[@0verDDoS]

Hey Colin, I just somewhat recently got very into blackjack and card counting and have been binging your entire channel+podcasts. It’s all so fascinating and entertaining I hope to see more. Love seeing Louden and Pink Chip as well. Keep up the good work Also, I’m a surveillance manager here at a WA casino and found barred slips of you and the boys from like, 2009. Hoping I can get good enough to increase my bankroll and join you guys in some of these binders

[@thedebatehitman]

10:00 For context, his statement was about hard 17s, which was the case in the depicted clip. Basic strategy, however, does insist that players hit on soft 17s against a shown 2.

[@michaelbraun6504]

Somehow it's not surprising that The Simpsons provide a more realistic portrayal than Hollywood ever has. Colin, I want to take a moment to thank you. To thank you for teaching me almost everything I know now. I've seen virtually all your public (non-membership) videos, and with their help, I have been doing quite well at my local casinos. I've even been backed off one of them (albeit a "soft backoff" -- they half-shoed me last time I was there.) But not before getting in a series of long sessions at least once a week almost every week for pretty close to a full year. I started with a bankroll of 5K, and have grinded it up to a little over 10K over about 200 hours of play. While that's not a significant amount for that time period, it is - in fact - quite a bit above my current EV, and honestly feels kind of amazing considering that I'm: 1) doing it as a side hustle from my full time day job, and infrequently get in more than one session per week. 2) hard-pressed to find casinos in my state that DON'T charge antes. 3) Fighting against post -Covid conditions that have seriously limited table availability at those few casinos who don't. Besides all that, though, I just want to keep my ROR really low ( I think alot of AP's willingly take on a higher risk when first starting out, until they build their BR up, and then lower it later on.) But I don't expect I'll ever be able to save up another if I lose THIS one. This is pretty much my one and only shot at this. Often I go back and re-watch videos of yours; not because I'm necessarily learning anything new from repeat viewings, but because you have a way of keeping me psychologically grounded in this whole endeavor, and that is more important to me than you might can imagine. There's a member of one of my card-counting social media groups who has referred to you as the "Mr. Miyogi" of blackjack. That may sound odd to you, but I think I know what he means. Your method of teaching is a useful guide in simply keeping one's mind in the proper zone at all times. Anyhow, once again-- thank you for your spiritual guidance. You're a fantastic teacher. You really are! And your book is a great read as well.

[@Lidz2193]

You and I are in very similar spots with our AP journey. I too am thankful to Colin and the guys at BJA for helping me to learn this skill. Not only has it been fun with all kinds of great stories, but I have watched my bankroll grow from day 1 and that brings a lot of satisfaction. Carry on man!!

[@DrummerDG]

That's awesome! I've never heard of antes for blackjack though; which state are you in?

[@tobias4823]

bro wrote a whole essay💀

[@jd0879]

TLDR

[@michaelbraun6504]

@@jd0879 54 seconds ago Yea reading is hard in MAGA country.

[@Savagemister]

Malcolm's dad should've went full Heisenburg on them in the backroom.

[@chrisfinch8637]

'You're still banned". 😕

[@JoeyDiazInASpeedo]

*Throws chip on ground*

[@udhenijjar6115]

I was looking forward to seeing their reactions to the Hangover card counting scene

[@donaldthe1801]

Never hit on 17 Unless your loudon. He has the story where the next card in shoe was flipped and it was a 4. So loudon doubled it..

[@foodiegalore]

To be technical, depends what variety of blackjack you’re playing. For example 17 vs an Ace is a hit (if can’t surrender) in Spanish 21.

[@robertjonez5]

What happens if during a round at a casino the next card in the shoe happens to be flipped? Aren't they allowed to shuffle at anytime?

[@bobbyd9319]

@@robertjonez5 usually if there is a flashed card, the casino will let you still play it. Casinos mistake.

[@ton4real474]

The last casino is what got me into card counting although a lot of fiction, I believe their back room scenes was much more realistic than 21 back room scenes of getting physical touched, at least for modern day. Although not completely realistic, it provides you a realistic view of how bad a team can go with one person leading and not being transparent. Most of the films can’t realistically depict card counting as it will take away this illusion from it that entertains so many people of being a math genius. But I can say the last casino was very influential in me learning how to look into actual card counting, which is why I’m still grateful to the film, even though it wasn’t completely real.

[@Cthulhus_Mum]

Had a friend who thinks she’s a card counter… (we fell out over other things, but I remember her claiming a 190IQ based off a Facebook quiz, so… yeah, very good at fooling herself. I got 200 on the same quiz, and I *know* I’m not that smart lmao) Anyway. I have another acquaintance who works at the local casino as a dealer. These two women don’t really know each other, but I mentioned the “card counter” in passing (before learning this other woman’s profession), and got an immediate physical description + description of her service dog. I was like “uhhh… Yeah? You know her?” “Yeah. She counts, but she’s no good at it. The casino is quite happy for her to have her +$5k days, and for her to conveniently forget her -$15k days.” Bad card counters are *great* for casinos.

[@limyarplane1991]

ya lmao its actully one of the reason they keep game's that are good for card counter's cause they want people who are terrible at it to try it and fail or so i have heard.

[@limyarplane1991]

never walked into a casino in my life so take that with a grain of salt but i remember reading somewhere its a common tactic.

[@ianandersen265]

That casino featured in the Simpsons is loosely based off of a real Caesars owned casino, that no longer offers table games. In the 2000's that had table games, and KC of Inside The Edge told Gambling With An Edge that they illegally backroomed him against their will, and KC chose not to sue because he couldn't get the whole thing recorded.

[@christophergargaro959]

I’ve only seen this once, but a casino I used to count at in the Midwest had an interesting strategy for counters. Very small place that was tribal run and didn’t have many high rollers. Max BJ game was $50 to $1K spread. If you played high (for them) it was very rare they’d back you off. Noticed this then asked a dealer friend who confirmed what their CM at the time would do is if they suspected counting, they’d tap in off cycle an anti counting dealer. When I asked what that was, was told it would be their fastest dealer who would be told to deal at warp speed and strike up as much conversation as you can with the players and counter using numbers as much as possible in convo. The goal was to make the counter lose the count or make them so annoyed they’d go somewhere else or to a smaller stakes table. I was told that CM saw counters as a byproduct of spreading the game so if they stuck to a low stakes table, the casino was sufficiently protected against risk or if they stayed in high stakes and were sufficiently distracted to make an error. If that didn’t work, then floor would step in and flat bet the player if they wanted to continue to play high. Complete banning from BJ was only reserved for the people who did really dumb stuff like threatened dealers, actually cheated, etc. This casino has since moved to a different CM and rules that mirror Vegas, etc but it was interesting to see a new dealer tap into my table and all of a sudden start rapid fire talking to me using numbers a lot in sentences 😂

[@bruce4139]

Yes! We need more videos Edit: I love these

[@zNovaGadbwuah]

Hey Colin great video and loved the last podcast. Im getting ready to buy a membership but just being shy. I remember a month or two ago in BTF Newsletter you said membership pricing is going up. I was curious if you were able to shed any light when that could happen? My birthday is coming up and I was going to get it as a gift for myself

[@Savagemister]

I got your book the other day and was done the next day. Good stuff, man. If I ever make it to a boot camp, I'll bring my book for you to sign.

[@Shawnybravo42]

Thanks for the videos. So helpful! I have a question. How does one find their ev for specific game rules. Given the rules, how does one determine the point in which you see positive e.v? What can you expect to obtain for ev with true counts of 1,2,3, etc? My local game is 6 decks h17, penetration of 4.5 decks, double any first 2 cards, double after split, split up to 4 times, cannot resplit aces (get 1 card) and No surrender. First off how do I find the negative e.v. which would be given if one played strictly basic strategy? And then how do I determine e.v. given counting, and at which point of the count the game becomes breakeven or shows positive ev. Would I only be able to make money if I strictly wonged in? How do I determine if I am able to make money if I can't Wong in and have to play table minimum until count is good? If anyone could help answer this question for me, I would greatly appreciate it.

[@ryanwest8898]

The thing that makes the first clip from the last casino even worse is they deal out the hand fully before the he hits the blackjack. In what casino blackjack game are you not given 2 cards first before hitting or standing?

[@bruce4139]

Hey colin here is maybe a video idea, why should we bet more spots when we have the advantage and less spots when we dont have the advantage? Dont we want to get to the long run faster meaning we should bet more spots when we have a lower count? Or how does that all work?

[@theweb7176]

just watched another film of interest last night , Rounders ,give it a watch

[@markhuber8345]

They might as well double down on the 17 v 2 … lol🤦🏻🤣

[@yakubabi7389]

Hi Colin, I was wondering what your stance on european casinos are. Are the profitalbe for card counters?

[@garyjandereski9253]

First time I tried counting I bought in and 4 hands later decided I better practice a little more 😂

[@Cardsandstoagies]

I had a situation where the dealer mishit the player to my tight who had 21, it was something like a 16 against a 5 for me, the mishit card was a 5, pit boss said offer it to the next guy, I doubled down. Love that place.

[@teuflischgutmobilemobaandm3490]

I have a very specific question about a bet spread cause atm i can't afford a softweare jet. But I whant to try out my skills can I start by backcounting and woonging in at a tru 2 with perfect cointing strats and deviations and earn some money?

[@Stiggandr1]

6:22 Oh my god. You look like Kosmic, a Mario speedrunner. hahah.

[@AyayronBalakay]

0:45 they dealt the last hands second card after the previous hand was fully completed lol

[@911eVoX]

Good content

[@justinthomas27]

Literally the first time I ever played blackjack (it was my 21st bday weekend) in Reno at circus circus I played single deck and watched a guy profit over $10,000 he was max betting $500 and they came up to him and told him “we know what you’re doing and we don’t want to play with you anymore” 😂 and from that day on I’ve been a gambler

[@jackjack8390]

Colin: "You ever been in a back room?" David: "I learned to not." buahahahahahahah!

[@blyatimusmaximus6936]

Colin can you make a video on side counts?

[@Blackjackapprenticeship]

Can you be more specific? Do you mean like an Ace side count for insurance purposes? Or side bet counts?

[@blyatimusmaximus6936]

Ace side count but both if possible

[@MondoLeStraka]

Colin, what do you say when the dealer says "So which card counting system card counting system are you using?"

[@masulantheoriginal8965]

Heyho! I'm just curious if you know any german card counters? I Think shuffling machines and continous shuffeling is common there.

[@LJLMETAL]

Every so often, I would do something out of the ordinary like double down on a 14. That way, it looks like I'm not counting cards.

[@jonnyjai1314]

hey colin question ''is there any difference if its European blackjack? '' dealer only gets dealt 1 card

[@GoldnShadow]

how about a system's review on K-O Knockout, i just read the first edition and it mentions it has effectiveness on par with HI-LO although i see HI-LO pushing for the top 1%, for casual players K-O sounds like the way to go

[@luicefn3250]

Hey Colin quick question. I have been backed off 4 casinos this weekend after playing for 2 hours at each casino. The worst part of it was I was told my “game is too good” even after I told them I was down 800$ on the session. Is a 1-16 bet spread too aggressive? Should I use a 1-8 bet spread to be able to last longer in a casino?

[@Blackjackapprenticeship]

It's hard for me to say. 1-16 on a shoe game isn't too big. On a double deck, that will definitely stand out. Maybe your act isn't very good. Or maybe it's just really sweaty casinos.

[@guibox3]

Even though my bet spread isn't huge, I think the amount of chips you stack there can garner attention. If I use two $5 chips and then all of a sudden stack 12 $5 chips, that stands out hugely. I have my $25 chips with some $5 chips on top to disguise the amount. These are ready to go for bet increases when the time is appropriate. The dealer would see the difference, but the eye in the sky would have to be paying good attention to see it enough to get attention from it..

[@drachenkonig5577]

For the mentalist we shoud say that he remembered the whole deck before .... he didn't just counted

[@jeffbrehove2614]

This is one my favorite episodes of the Mentalist. Jane mentions that each card is given a metaphor that's vivid enough to remember. Plus it's a one deck table scenario. Surely different counting/paying standards apply than a shoe

[@bugbry3112]

I think the only problem with simpons one is they walk in all at once

[@hammondr191887]

Seems like a huge compliment for a typical blackjack player to be backed off for “counting”

[@Cowtymsmiesznego]

I'm pretty sure that you should hit on hard 17 if all cards left in the shoe are lower than a 5

[@Sez56]

Yesssss

[@roberttohill5317]

Hi, What has been your biggest single bet on a blackjack hand?

[@caricatura389]

Saludos desde Colombia, ell blackjac online y el de casino son iguales. O hay alguna diferencia al contar cartas?

[@Blackjackapprenticeship]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/l4Kno62Ae51loZI

[@bruce4139]

Hey colin heres a question, do you think I could play for longer before being backed off from a casino if I acted super superstitious? Or is that a bad idea? What are your thoughts?

[@fakerererererer]

From my experience, I just play like the back off is inevitable. There’s no way to know if the casino even is on your tail so trying to act a certain way to throw them off when they probably aren’t even suspecting you is likely a waste of time/resources. If you wanna try to throw them off by doing something that doesn’t cost a lot of money/resources then I’d say go ahead, but I wouldn’t put too much effort into it. I once thought the same and tried to play slots at 2 casinos I go a lot just for the hopes the camera will see me and they’ll think “he’s just a gambler and getting lucky, not a counter” but I was eventually backed off both casinos and I lost some money to slots so it was a lose-lose

[@bruce4139]

@@fakerererererer I was more thinking like having a lucky chip, doing really cap that kinda stuff Edit: stuff like oh I'm not feeling lucky I'm going to stand or I'm feeling lucky here let's double etc.

[@KALEB32154]

@@bruce4139 Read the book Burning the Tables in Las Vegas for insight into camouflaging play with how you act and superstitions. Also it's just a crazy good book in general for CC. Don't use his advice on playing improperly to hide CC though, not worth it.

[@bruce4139]

@@KALEB32154 alright thanks for the insight, I'll check that out as well as a couple. I want to read the 21st century card counter by colin himself and repeat until rich but I'll add that to my bucket list also

[@belchicola]

@@bruce4139 I seem to recall Colin saying a couple times that playing improperly for cover is not worth it. Certain behavior can give you some cover but eventually you will get found out. On the topic of superstition though, I remember them having an asian lady AP on one of the BJA podcasts who really played into the superstitious "Degenerate Asian Gambling Addict" stereotype and she said she got a lot of mileage out of that.

[@carasmussen27]

Drawing attention to yourself right off who the hell hits on a freaking 19.? LOL love the Simpsons. Often they will not allow people to join a game mid shoe. You didn't include "21" :-) great video

[@wateryxwatermelon7802]

Went up big on a cruise and had a manager accuse me of counting cards. Didn’t even know what that meant at the time (I was 18), he kept telling me to stop playing dumb lol.

[@jonathannagela2130]

I wrote a yelp review on hollywood aurora casino after a couple were colluding against me in poker. The manager Hemal Patel saw the review and when I showed up for a tourney that I had won free entry into he banned me. But- he wouldnt allow me to leave. he would body block me from exiting? Eventually after over 20 minutes I walked through him and when I got to the exit rotating door they put their foot in it and locked me in the rotating door while people watched thinking I mustve done something bad. Security finally came they said im trespassed and let me out of their prison

[@101411726]

What episode of the simpsons was this??

[@ernie5229]

"Based on what he listed, what was the count?" If you knew every single card that has been played, wouldn't that give you way more information than just the count? Would you still need to convert that to a count? What, exactly, would you do with the information if you knew every card that has been played?

[@nehemyahberdugo2305]

Hey can you explain to me how bad players don't effect the game? If the count is high then the odds say the next card will be a bust card so if someone hits (let's say a 16) then they will likely take a 10 meaning there are less 10s left for the dealer. If you are playing with 4 others that means they can bring down the count by a running 4? Doesn't that mean you can lose your edge from bad players?

[@michaelbraun6504]

Other players skill level has no bearing whatsoever on your edge. Too MANY players, however (in other words a full/crowded table) DOES hurt your edge. Because you get fewer rounds per hour played, and by the time everyone's cards are dealt to them and it's finally your turn to act, your bet might no longer be accurate (in terms of the count.)

[@nehemyahberdugo2305]

@@michaelbraun6504 wouldn't that mean though that there skill does matter since even if your playing with one other he may hit when the count is high and therefore bring down the count or as a gambler would say " take the dealers 10"

[@michaelbraun6504]

@@nehemyahberdugo2305 No. Gamblers thinking like that is precisely why they are called gamblers. That person who plays wrong and hits could just as easily draw a deuce and INCREASE the count. Besides, most playing decision ( and basically ALL betting decisions) are based on the True Count, (AKA "per-deck count,) not the running count. One high card being drawn out before your action won't change much anything. The way other people play has no effect on your long-term results. I can tell you from both common sense math, and from personal experience playing and winning. I have played with numerous bad players

[@Blackjackapprenticeship]

Check out our video we have on this topic: 3 Ways Bad Blackjack Players REALLY Affect You kzbin.info/www/bejne/jXvZZ2VrhKyshs0

[@David-po7ej]

Can you comment on the Austin Powers scene, that would be epic.

[@lowserver2]

i was expecting that one XD

[@Sphyxx]

It's funny to see people using their blue yetis in the wrong position

[@traviselectricalservices4532]

When you start counting a new shoe and the first 35 cards are 90% high cards, but that makes it n30 running count. Why would you not play that? Why wait until you go through all the low cards and find your self at end of shoe before count is positive again?

[@Herbeon420]

You turn tricks and you cheat at cards hahahaha that's golden

[@VezeTech]

0:35 hitting on 19 is just as bad as hitting on 20, only ace and 2 helps and arguably it’s better save the ace for the next hand if we believe the dealer already has a winning hand

[@sunnyozuna530]

Colin, I just emailed you about a casino in Arizona holding my chips because I didn't want to show my ID when cashing out. They sent me home with a receipt and said to come back with my ID and they will give me my money. I told them it was illegal to hold my chips, but they didn't care. Please respond I want to know what steps I need to take. Thank you!

[@kw7749]

How much were you cashing out. I know in some areas they do need your ID above a certain amount for tax reasons

[@V.Vaughan]

banned from the casino unless you wear a very good and convincing disguise.

[@AntonSlavik]

The Mentalist is the most ridiculous TV show ever made. I love it. Hitting on a 17 is absurd, but I've done it before when the dealer had a face and I actually survived. But that wasn't in real life, so there may have been a function in the code to give me a certain amount of "luck"

[@niakwabolic7844]

I tought I would see Las Vegas 21 scene

[@Boo-vm2th]

I'm the most! nervous 😅

[@michaeltrollan]

Analogy for the grocery store: they might not like it if you are using multiple coupons that stack to crazy good discounts, but it's not cheating.

[@ricky5369]

a card counter who doesn't know how to manage their bankroll is still a threat to a casino it doesn't matter if they go broke

[@Boo-vm2th]

Me too

[@nickybeingnicky]

I'm more scared of slight of hand by a dealer than I am of card counting.

[@xenaguy01]

If casinos were _REALLY_ smart, they'd publish pamphlets *TEACHING* card counting.

[@Fede_uyz]

Malls: - No Shoe - No Shirt NO SERVICE! Casino: - Use brains - Use Friends No service

[@lsuspector722]

Actually the simpsons takes place in the coos bay casino in oregon

[@DJ.LakeSea]

Are there actually any casino's in the world that play with decks that aren't fed into a card-shuffle machine?

[@Boo-vm2th]

I do

[@alanrice7410]

It would make sense to hit 17 against a 2 when the true count is -27.

[@annorax104]

It would also make sense to have left the table long before that point, preferably to take a piss that takes... until the shuffle.

[@maximusfrank2835]

17 against a 2, will what if he was shuffle tracking ? 😅

[@Boo-vm2th]

Plus 6

[@ComebackRunner]

i was upset because i kept loosing. I started hitting 20s and got an A on one hand and a 2 on a 19 later. on ...lol

[@Boo-vm2th]

This dude's 😎

[@zacharywong5632]

The last casino is almost as realistic you can get in card counting.

[@wildcatterry17]

Malcom. :)

[@marcuscook3852]

It always astounds that casinos would be concerned about card counters. There are significantly more gamblers that don't have a clue, quite willing to hand over hundreds of dollars every time they play to the casino.

[@D1G1TALFOX]

R e a l N 1 c e . . . 😎🌌🚀

[@viniciusmeneses9161]

Jane was memorizing the cards, you 've cutted the part when he says that.

[@misterchubbikins]

There are circumstances where casino security can detain someone even if they are walking away. If the person has been barred from the casino and returns (usually the deadline is within a year) they can detain for trespaasing, regardless of the persons willingness to leave at that moment.

[@zalix512]

Where’s Dusty?

[@Lindsey_Lockwood]

spoiler... a tap on the shoulder 999 times out of 1000 is you getting the boot not a comp. Maybe back in the 90s. You can tell the guy on the right has caught some legit beat downs before

[@Cardsandstoagies]

Hit 17 against a 2 if you know the next card is a 4 or lower lmao

[@keith8561]

Saving all my penny's to get $500. I can FLY under the radar, make a killin', AND meet great people to break bread with.

[@christophercarlone9945]

Not that easy, trust me. Don't fall for the marketing.

[@keith8561]

@@christophercarlone9945 I don't want it to be easy. If it was easy everybody would do it. it's the HARD that makes it great.

[@keith8561]

@@christophercarlone9945 I'm paying for the marketing after I learn the basic strategy and the high low system on my own under 30 seconds. That what the professionals says on videos.

[@christophercarlone9945]

@@keith8561 I wish you luck. Maybe you will find success with it but the swings can be brutal. I've had sessions where I've cleared anywhere from 1 to 5 grand, only to lose three or four the next time I've went. It can be a lot of stress. Good luck to you. Hope you are a success story for Colin and the gang.

[@keith8561]

@@christophercarlone9945 plus there's another lockdown in the Bay Area, with nothing to do, still need to create a bank roll. Finding jobs all summer long.

[@Boo-vm2th]

Card guy

[@markadams8041]

I do love the Hank Azaria accent saying, "Use caution," you should use the same accent on your show when you give the instructions to use caution. I hope that some Asian people agree with me, jokes might be offensive, but dang, jokes are funny!

[@Boo-vm2th]

Lol 😹

[@oscarmccurdy7788]

I didn’t know people have brains in amarica

[@Boo-vm2th]

This dures xD

[@Boo-vm2th]

!!!!!

[@jeremyseaton3314]

Card counting is great, and I would be interested in learning the finer details of the pros. But when I think of card counting, I think of long road trips, and casino hopping, and I'm just not interested in that life. I've made Baccarat my game. This last week has been the best run of my career. I started with 4k, and turned it into 51k.

[@Phlegethon]

Nice Jeremy you will be a millionaire!

[@tyrelbass]

You can play live blackjack virtually too , I doubt they ban people from playing on there

[@jeremyseaton3314]

$106k in the last 2 months.

[@Boo-vm2th]

Matt

[@paulklemer]

Have you guys been grabbed by security?

[@Blackjackapprenticeship]

Nope

[@AGryphonTamer]

It's interesting how different groups view card counting. In my mind it is cheating. Importantly it's not illegal, that bit is very clear and well established. But 99% of the cheating in the world is not illegal. If you cheat on a Minecraft server the cops don't care, they're not gonna come, but you can be banned. Exact same thing with card counting. The rules are there, it's against the rules, it doesn't matter if the rules are fair or not. (They're quite biased in favor of the casino, who wrote them) It's against the rules. If it's against the rules, it's cheating. Illegal and Cheating are not the same words, it's very easy for something to be illegal and not cheating or cheating and not illegal. Let's say you stole a car. Obviously illegal, but no one would ever say you cheated to get the car, you stole it. This isn't an insult about skill, cheating can be very hard and I don't think I could ever do it successfully. You earn your money doing it.

[@markadams8041]

That has to be a serious accomplment. That the Simpsons ripped you off. No one can tell you that you have wasted your life when The Simpsons steal your material.

[@markadams8041]

Any idiot of blackjack knows that 19 is a winner as 18.7 is the average win in blackjack. You are actively drawing suspicion even if you have the number two X-ray spex and the rain man card counting ability.

[@Boo-vm2th]

C word

[@mattdale5091]

Are these guys married to each other. I can't figure this out.

[@Frankmccluskey]

Card counting is just a gateway to creating a meth empire