Cardinal Fernandez’s Sexual Fixations

Philosopher Michael Pakaluk joins TCT’s Robert Royal in a conversation about the controversial sexually lurid book by Cardinal Fernandez, the head of the Dicastery of the Doctrine of the Faith, which has been rediscovered in recent days. Professor Pakaluk has also uncovered other essays by the Argentinian along similar lines, which he says indicate a kind of sexual idee fixe.

[@zuzuspetals8323]

Fernandez should resign. St. Joseph, Terror of Demons, pray for us.

[@ablarod948]

Now that this has come to light, why hasn't this guy been dismissed from his position? Why aren't the bishops demanding Francis to remove him? No outrage?

[@aaabbb-py5xd]

Lol, but why, he was just being catholic

[@zzc8505]

Because there’s an agenda and ppl who can promote the amends are put in places of influence

[@zzc8505]

Because there’s an agenda and ppl who will promote the agenda are put in places of influence

[@joseangelalvarez74]

Why hasn’t James Martin been dismissed, or Cupich, or Tobin? Because they were appointed by Francis to liberalize the church. Who is going to receiver letters for their dismissal? Francis and his henchmen.

[@Kitiwake]

Or Burke or Strickland?​@@joseangelalvarez74

[@user-gl9jd3ih8h]

The whole affair is terribly, terribly sad. Is this the best that the Catholic Church can do regarding these types of appointments? Great work Robert Royal and Michael Pakaluk. Thank you very much. Warm greetings from Australia 🦘

[@maryfox7440]

Beautiful sunny Australia....

[@WilberWiley]

Its not sad it is a demonic attack on the church. Everything is on a supernatural level in the catholic church. It is a church of the supernatural. That is what separates the catholic church from all other religions.

[@markorton-8175]

It makes us a laughing stock and removes the ability to criticize the Anglican Church for its liberal attitudes because we are walking the same path and no one is acting against Francis to stop him. Prelates gurn and grin at him. It's disgusting fawning. It's an existential crisis and people will desert in droves the longer this wretched papacy is allowed to run. He should be physically deposes and placed under the equivalent of house arrest while a new conclave is convened to replace him and then he should be exiled to Argentina but none of that will happen because there aren't anywhere near enough prelates with a functional spine.

[@theien5929]

We have depraved prelates telling us what the doctrine of the faith is

[@mickbillane4683]

The cops should be investigating Fernández, re: his dialogue with a sixteen year old girl.

[@lilyw.719]

THIS! I have been saying from the very beginning, from as soon as the story about the kissing book came out, that this man is a sexual predator and groomer, and he has victims who need to be found and brought forward. He wrote that erotic kissing book in collaboration with young people - that is the textbook definition of grooming. Fernandez is a freak, his victims need to be found, and he needs to be extradited back to Argentina to face charges if possible. The new Argentinian president is a gift from God to the world. Perhaps we can appeal to him to intervene and liberate us from this monster..

[@garylerose8377]

Bottom line is good and Holy Priests and Bishop’s are being removed from their flocks and people like Fernandez and Rupnic who are friends of the Pope get advanced. It is getting harder and harder to stay outwardly proud and evangelistic to our Holy Catholic Church. Time for a change at the top!

[@sandie157]

Don't let these devils' slaves drag you from the Church. Hold tighter to the Faith and to Our Lord. Remember that Our Lady warned so often that people had to repent and turn away from sin. Eventually if they don't God's justice must act and He leaves people at the mercy of their own evil. Remember your task is to stay true to the perennial Magisterium of the Church and so to save your soul. Eventually unless these men repent they will be dragged down to hell.... don't let them drag you with them .. by causing you to despair or give up. Practices that help are to read the works of the great saints. Especially Liguori, the great mystics, to assist at Latin mass ...even if only online. Get some books to help you in learning about TLM and listen to good traditional sermons.

[@andy41417]

Reminds me of Fr. Andrew Greeley S.J. who also had an interest in matters alien to celebates.

[@marykotalik7161]

He came to my mind too. Never read any of his "novels" and never understood what business a priest had in writing this filth.

[@Di-Pi]

I love how you worded that… with integrity.

[@maryspencer4274]

This brings me back to the destructive and horrible time with the scandels of the Priest abuse cases, yet quite identical

[@vickyvilleneuve8829]

Very interesting conversation. 👍

[@anamariamonttemayorderamir4198]

Does the fact that Pope Francis has not removed this Cardenal Fernandez say simething about the Popes position?

[@andy41417]

Yes. PF has made him bishop and cardinal. Also F has written for PF including AL and FS.

[@janetalexander4476]

It is also obvious PF position on gay blessings when you see the photo of James Martin blessing same sex couple holding hands … he has made publicly endorsement of him ….While finding an argument he can use to cancel holy priests …

[@pattytada9117]

They are the same

[@virginiabattiste2210]

Thanks, as always, for unpacking this so well. How scary to have Fernandez in charge of the DDF! Lord have mercy on us all...for we are all sinners.

[@matthewschmidt5069]

Do you know who helped write Pastor Aeternus?

[@thomasmc7752]

Decastery for the destruction of the Faith.

[@matthewschmidt5069]

@@thomasmc7752 On what authority can you make that statement?

[@thomasmc7752]

@matthewschmidt5069 Just plain commonsense, Matthew, just plain commonsense. I would go further, this Pope has been a disaster for the true Catholic faith.

[@matthewschmidt5069]

@@thomasmc7752 Seems to me you're bought into a false narrative. "Therefore in the faith of Peter there is nothing wanting, nothing obscure, nothing imperfect, nothing against which evil doctrines and pernicious views can prevail, after the manner of the gates of hell. And where is the faith of Peter, but in the See of Peter?" - Caritas Studium 3, Leo XIII

[@andy41417]

ISBN number was wiped for the book.

[@Godschild-ft4nr]

Lord save the Church from self-implosion by Fernandez

[@eagleseyes3]

This is my first time listening to this podcast, which I thoroughly enjoyed and subscribed. Unfortunately, when Robert asked several questions at the same time, there was a which was not answered amongst the multi-questioned statement and was asking Michael his view on the current controversy of blessing same sex marriage which was nicely tied into this podcast. Wondered if there could be a follow-up? Michael did a great job answering most of what was asked, but I didn’t hear an answer to that part.

[@user-fc1ld9ts8u]

I recognize that the use of the term Holy Father is used in referring to Pope Francis because it has become the identification of the office of the papacy. But this troubles me. I suggest that the term Holy Father should not be used, in particular, where there are such serious questions concerning disturbing actions of Pope Francis. This is not to be confused with negatively judging Pope Francis. However, because the term "Holy Father" is so definitive, and while we are obligated to simultaneously recognize serious problems in this papacy, no lofty recognition should be used in describing this, or any individual, and certainly not this Pope. This is not to be construed as a final judgement of Pope Francis. I think any judgement of holiness is best reserved to the almighty, and the mistaken application used is misleading to some of the faithful and the world, as to endorsement of certain unacceptable conduct. I have never liked the term and believe it should not be used although we can always hope it is true concerning all popes.

[@Peter-uj8ye]

clergy are supposed to be celibate!

[@51RJB]

Deacons are clergy. They can be ordained after marriage. I am a married Byzantine Catholic deacon. I am clergy. There are some 23 Catholic Eastern Churches in communion with Rome. Only one of them, to my knowledge, requires celibacy of priests. It is , otherwise, only the Latin Church which requires celibacy of its priests.

[@51RJB]

The word "celibate" means unmarried. I think the word "chaste" is what you are looking for.

[@user-gl9jd3ih8h]

​@@51RJBthank you for the explanations. Very good! Warm greetings from Australia 🦘

[@marypilcher-cook1623]

The "subscribe" button on the Catholic Thing website doesn't appear to work.

[@user-gl9jd3ih8h]

I wonder if Cardinal Fernandez borrowed some of his "theology" for his books from the writings on tantric sex?

[@gaspersignorelli3724]

Yes and the psychoanalyst Wilhelm Reich.

[@user-gl9jd3ih8h]

@@gaspersignorelli3724 thank you gasper. I will have a look at Wilhelm Reich. Enjoy your day and greetings from Australia 🦘

[@user-gl9jd3ih8h]

@@gaspersignorelli3724 right ...just had a look on the bio of Wilhelm Reich. Married 4 times, worked with Freud (I think he did coke with Freud), wrote "The Function of the Orgasm" (1927); "The Mass Psychology of Fascism (1933), probably in reference to Hitler and the Nazi party; and "The Sexual Revolution" (1936) and the latter popularised during the 1960s. Reich tried to reconcile psychoanalysis with Marxism (!!!!) and went to prison in the USA for fraud where he died of a heart attack. Colourful character, not like the Cardinal himself. Also shows that there's really nothing new under the sun regarding thoughts and ideas. Just recycled and tweaked.

[@gaspersignorelli3724]

Yes, I became aware of Reich in the late 60s early 70s. My sister was ahead of me in school and she had some of his books assigned: the mass psychology of fascism was one of them, which I read, and later a little book called listen little man. But the main writer who pointed me in his direction was Paul Goodman. Norman Mailer was another follower. He was very influential back then and people thought sex would set them free - but it didn't. I also read a bio: Fury on Earth by Myron Sharaf.

[@JosephJoelCruzReyes]

The home is the natural environment for initiating a human being into solidarity and communal responsibilities. Parents should teach children to avoid the compromising and degrading influences which threaten human societies.-CCC 2224

[@gerardmateer8826]

This pope has a lot to answer for

[@jennydavies7048]

AMEN

[@Kitiwake]

You cant talk publicly about the pope like that. Unless you're not Catholic that is. And then you have an even bigger problem.

[@jwatson142]

It seems that Francis is protecting and promoting these men when they should be removed from ministry and investigated. Why? Why is Francis fixating on these disordered personalities? I can’t listen to anymore about anything.

[@user-eu8ub9cm5t]

Could this Cain Cardinal be described as Saint Cardinal Alfredo Ottaviani successor in Rome Fearless Champion of Tradition at Vatican II?

[@piita1971]

Please read number 149 of Amoris Laetita. He is the ghost writer that talks about a sexual expansion of the conscience based on "Oriental teachers"

[@patrickobrien8060]

How close is this to the sacred prostitution practiced by ancient pagan religions?

[@jwatson142]

Francis isn’t being hoodwinked nor is he ignorant. He is compliant.

[@thomasmc7752]

No way is Pope Francis hoodwinked by Fernández.

[@rowanaforrest9792]

Bergoglio and Fernandez have been good friends for many, many years, so there is no possibility that Bergoglio doesn't know what Fernandez has written. He knows all about it, yet he still elevated Fernandez to Cardinal and has placed him in one of the very highest positions in the Church anyway, which says zero good about Bergoglio and what he values.

[@andreahimelinski5163]

Unbelievable! and this guy is in charge ???!!!

[@crazyedswonderfulworldofso9370]

The two treatises differ in their approach to the topic of human sexuality. While Pope John Paul II’s “Theology of the Body” provides an in-depth biblical explanation of the mystery of marriage and human sexuality, Cardinal Victor Manuel Fernández’s “Mystical Passion: Spirituality and Sensuality” has been the subject of controversy due to its sexually explicit content. The book includes graphic descriptions of human sexual relations and discussion of what the Argentinian theologian describes as “mystical orgasm”. The book also depicts in detail an imaginary erotic encounter with Jesus Christ on the shores of Galilee, which Fernández said was based on a spiritual experience disclosed to him by a 16-year-old girl. Cardinal Fernandez’s book was viewed as pornographic while Pope John Paul’s treatise was not; my point being, that both men had the same message but only one, had a little more finesse, sophistication and maturity than the other.

[@user-gl9jd3ih8h]

Thanks but you missed one critical bit about the Virgin Mary and the "sex scenes" I won't go into the details here but it is truly disturbing and terribly sacrilegious. As far as I am concerned, both writers are not "SOULy" distinguished or differentiated by writing styles. Pope John Paul II was holy and a true disciple of God.

[@user-gl9jd3ih8h]

Please see my response "crazy" but I don't agree with your assessment. Thank you

[@crazyedswonderfulworldofso9370]

@@user-gl9jd3ih8h I did say Fernandez's book was pornographic. I see your point about sacrilegious. I do agree he went too far. I think most of the flak is coming from his association with this papacy. You are either for or against. The sides are being drawn.

[@user-gl9jd3ih8h]

@@crazyedswonderfulworldofso9370 thanks for responding. I think there would be flak regardless of his association with the Papacy, given that, first and foremost, the Cardinal (regardless) of his role is presenting himself as a man of God. That's the major problem.

[@user-gl9jd3ih8h]

@@crazyedswonderfulworldofso9370 actually you didn't explicitly say that you thought the book was pornographic. You have quoted others. In terms of taking "sides" on the issue, I'm on the side of St Paul and not the Corinthians! You might need to do some research regarding the meaning of that statement but I regard my body as a (holy) "temple".

[@RodolfoPetronio]

Great!!!

[@joannehecht3974]

I'm sorry!! Francis & the rest are only human... I believe some of the hierarchy is truly, truly possessed.

[@zakkonieczka6811]

😂 when you are so pure that you need to censor the Bible. Couldn't make this stuff up, keep up the great satire guys 👍

[@mikeyangel1067]

Sad calumny here, very interesting view. Who is the audience here?

[@popesplainer]

Robert Robert Robert you destroy now

[@donnaharding7702]

I don’t care what the heck he thinks. He’s right I wouldn’t read anything he would have to say at this point

[@nathanm6024]

This is a weird distortion of "sublimation" which is not uncommon in Catholic thought. Many in the priesthood struggle with the sacrifice of their reproductive faculties, desire and natural inclination. Many take solace or rely on sublimation as a tool through which to attain true piety. However I think the concept is misunderstood, and for purposes of concupiscence it is gratuitously distorted and used to justify a sinful mentality... which then rots the soul.

[@aaabbb-py5xd]

Lol whatever the fuck is sublimation in your religion? I know what sublimation usually means, but I take it you gave it a sexual meaning

[@Kitiwake]

A sinful mentality rots the soul.

[@butterflybeatles]

Can anybody tell me where the fascination for beards originated? When I grew up, in the sixties, nobody wore a beard.

[@ethosokorie635]

Be serious

[@butterflybeatles]

Given the popularity of beards today you have to wonder -- how did it happen? In the fifties and sixties nobody wore a beard. You don't have to be rude about it.@@ethosokorie635

[@michaelpakaluk3056]

It originates for me with my wife, who said that she likes the fashion.

[@EpoRose1]

@@michaelpakaluk3056That’s why my husband has his!

[@RodolfoPetronio]

What?

[@tommore3263]

I think the recent teaching on the blessing of people or couples is spelled out well and clearly and while, like everything else it will be abused by some, I think it was a good and thorough response to the German church which has wondered off from the church. I think it probably had to have "couples" in it given the post synodal confusions. It is clear and orthodox and shows the church's love for all of us sinners while affirming the sheer sanity of her teaching. I have only read reports of Cardinal Fernandez' works from nearly thirty years ago and I don't want to rush out and buy them, but neither do I want to sit in judgment over the writings of a man who gave up all to follow Christ, including the beauty and wonder of our identities as men and women in the wonder of life and its creation. I think a little appreciation of God's creative gift is pretty much in order. I haven't seen anything that I can identify as in any way opposed to Catholic doctrine and mission in his writings including the acknowledgment that sometimes the conditions of marriage are thought to have been met but later prove not to have been met, nullifying what was thought to be a marriage. That this is done by a priest instead of an expensive and dare I say cumbersome tribunal does not cause me any sleep issues. Does not the priest interview couples to see if they indeed can be married in a Catholic rite? Why on earth could he not , with new information later reexamine the situation and with his bishop's authority , take appropriate action to relieve the suffering. I also believe as a Catholic that I have a moral duty to approach magisterial documents and teachings in a manner consistent with my Catholic faith and I have no problem doing this at all with what pope Francis is doing. I believe the Pachamama hysteria was exactly that and as Prof. Fastiggi has argued, it was the claimed scandal that was slanderous and scandalous, not the event itself. I am fully prepared to approach Cardinal Fernandez and his contributions with an open heart and mind and hope that if he knew me, he wouldn't judge me by what I thought and wrote thirty years ago. May God bless and guide us all in His wonderful church.

[@darmat6288]

Pope Francis does nothing about these matters. Therefore his failure to act makes him complicit.

[@Kitiwake]

Apparently saint Hildegard of Bingen and saint Pope John Paul 2 wrote similar content. I note Michael is willing to give the presumption of marriage to Song of Psalms but not to Cardinal Fernandez The Cardinal!s book was examined by the DDF before he was a bishop and cleared by them.

[@baseballmomof8]

How can this man be in charge of determining the validity of abuse cases? He could be a problem cleric himself.

[@davislongsworth7150]

I just don't understand this mess and pope francis. God have mercy.

[@donnaharding7702]

Where are the real fathers of the church?

[@wazzuu08]

Another version of Kamasutra....lol

[@WilberWiley]

Why not just say what the book is? Evil! That is why parents wouldnt have fernandez teaching their kids.

[@nickashton3584]

tantra

[@donnaharding7702]

This is totally diabolical. Can they see it?

[@vchasthos2176]

What in God's Name is the purpose of this segment? To aid the listener's growth in holiness? ...or, to commit the sin of detraction?

[@elvialopez8426]

Fernandez es un cochino😢

[@jmjrosary4697]

Like Lansing a boil !?!? That is offensive to our Lord who designed this part of the Marital act. Sorry Lord Father God ❤who is our dear Father in Heaven who makes all things GOOD ! That rather vile description should never be repeated again in Jesus name. UTTERLY DISRESPECTFUL

[@elieenm4391]

Cardinal Fernandez needs to resign. There is no defending these thoughts or opinions of him that he wrote. Why isn't the Pope taking him out of office if he doesn't resign. The Catholic Church is in trouble we need to pray and the Cardinals and Bishops need to speak up against the corruption in the Church like the African Bishops. This saddens me as a Catholic all my life and went to Catholic school for 12 years. If the Pope new about it and keeping Fernandez's in office is a moral sin and evil. 😢He shouldn't be writing any more church teaching and we as Catholics should not read or listen to anything Fernandez's writing's

[@matthewschmidt5069]

Repent of sowing the seeds of dissent. You should be ashamed of calling yourself Catholic and attacking the Holy See constantly

[@ksanto9797]

Maybe you should repent of your idolatry of the Pope? We've had bad Pope's before. That's not sewing dissent that's just the truth. Respect the office yes but the truth is the truth. You could call it fraternal correction hmm?

[@MM-gu8tk]

Its saddened me that the pope has not condemned this blasphemous ideas about St Teresa in this book

[@matthewschmidt5069]

@@ksanto9797 Friend, the first see is judged by no one according to Canon Law and Pope St. Nicholas as well as others. Resisting the teachings of the Pope is Protestantism.

[@ksanto9797]

​@@matthewschmidt5069we are not obligated to follow recommendations from the Pope that is contrary to scripture and tradition. Sorry, friend.

[@matthewschmidt5069]

@@ksanto9797 On whose authority do you make that call? Who is the defender of the faith? You, me, Robert Royal? It's never been licit in Church history to oppose the teachings of the Pope. "As we read in another place, the person who abandons the teaching of the Roman pontiff cannot be within the church" -Lateran V