Theology Upside Down

Theologian Larry Chapp joins TCT’s Robert Royal to discuss how “theology from below” is leading to controversial steps like blessing same-sex couples, dialogue with Marxists, and listening first to people rather than God.

[@mikeross2577]

I left the church 22 years ago at age 43. I was a cradle Catholic, educated in Catholic school etc. I became a Southern Baptist after being impressed with their Sunday School programs for both adults and children. I knew very little of scripture or its meaning. As a Catholic, I was very disappointed with the lack of teaching and direction and weak homilies from increasingly effeminate Priests. I have recently become interested in reverting to Catholicism after listening to some very good Priests on KZbin. I have been going to Mass for 8 weeks. Still on the fence due to the many conflicts and scandals within the church. Pray for me please!

[@iamterico]

Welcome back Home Mike! Lots of resources today to help us stay on track during these difficult times with the human side of the Catholic Church. The Divine side is intact and waiting for us to say YES every day. EWTN for me was very educational . Listening to the Apologists shows like daily Open Line, and Called to Communion. Peace be with you!

[@carlkelly7068]

Mike, I think Francis's boldness actually is waking many Catholics up. They are are rediscovering the fullness and richness while the Pope sow confusion. Pope's job as final safeguard against heresy is becoming more apparent as Francis attempts to oppose his own mandate

[@mden2490]

@carlkelly7068-Not sure if you meant that Pope Francis has boldness? I am not sure many would agree with that statement. ​It seems as though Francis espouses something akin to liberation theology. He is for the blessing of same sex couples, but then rightly so comes out against surrogacy. The guest speaker correctly pointed out that people convert to Catholicism because of its rich tradition, having the fullness of truth etc.... since Vatican II the church primarily focused on social advocacy which we are called to do, but not at the risk of not properly forming upright thinking and acting people. St. Thomas Aquinas, rightly said that being good in of itself was/is not sufficient, one must move to that which is good, meaning Christ. So one's conscience is properly formed through what he calls "right reason."

[@ablarod948]

Yes the Catholic Church is getting worse again. If improved under JP2 and Benedict but has returned to it's nonsensical antichrist ways. Go orthodox.

[@mpasaa]

Don't let scandalous behavior by other sinful human beings cause you to abandon Christ....the Divine side of the church will remain....human side will always have problems but that's where faith is tested....see this as a test by Christ to test your faith and thus strengthen your trust in the One Truth who is Christ....good luck

[@marjoriehoglund8754]

Dear Robert ! Thank you for bringing Larry Chapp on your KZbin! He has CLARITY! Kindness is NOT A VIRTUE! People deep down want the TRUTH and the Catholic Church has the TRUTH! I will be forwarding this KZbin to many people and especially some Benedictine Monks who teach Theology! Theology from below …..it has to be Theology from ABOVE ! Thank you so much for this EXCELLENT KZbin ! Blessings from Michigan

[@brianwalsh7352]

Here's a truth: hell is real and eternal. Matthew 25:41 [41] Then he shall say to them also that shall be on his left hand: Depart from me, you cursed, into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels. [Matthew 25:41] Ask DR. Chapp if he believes Christ's words. Then get back to us about truth.

[@1965startrek]

Big help in understanding where Francis has gone extreme for one idea and ignore balance. All history has people becoming enamored of their OWN idea and neglect any balance .

[@zoraidaiglesias934]

Thank you for the clarity. We enjoyed your videos. God Bless you both

[@user-gl9jd3ih8h]

Thank God Larry is not a Cardinal! How long would he have a job? Commiserations to Cardinal Burke.

[@ericlauridsen5193]

Love the conversation...very enlightening.

[@IreneTanedo-md9ux]

Larry Chapp is one of the most incisive, insightful and brilliant theologian..He speaks with so much clarity and truthfulness. Thank you so much Robert for inviting him

[@richardgachassin610]

Wow ! What a great interview!!! We need this wide open to all Catholics!!! 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻for clarity in the church n Pope Francis. He needs to stay when does he stand. His change is not acceptable!

[@almahill481]

Deeply grateful for this!

[@mikebolognese7134]

Chapp is incisive, clear and extremely well spoken He is truly wonderful. His words are something not only to reflect on but to act upon. SO MEANINGFUL.

[@suzannespanier4492]

Our entire thing is about the writing…the Word…. Moving too far away from it these days…

[@carlkelly7068]

Excellent! Loved the analysis of Francis as a liberation theologian

[@brianemig729]

Good show; great insight!

[@Anna-mc3ll]

Thank you very much for sharing this insightful conversation!

[@donbrook3117]

Great interview! Very timely. A rebirth of “Christological holiness.” Yes!

[@Missinmaui5]

Thank you!

[@donald4054]

The best explanation of what underlies what goes on in Pope Francis's mind. Great insight and teaching...Thank you so much Dr. Chapp!

[@user-gj5gc8pq6u]

Thank you very informative..

[@user-fc1ld9ts8u]

I agree with this analysis. After a number of wrong conclusions, I also arrived at the this conclusion. Basically, Pope Francis practices relentless and extreme love while supressing anything more than quiet acknowledgement of sinful conduct. What make this so tricky to recognize is that this expression is applied to only certain sins and people while he striks out at others who see error and disagree openly. This is the well-known double standard being applied to certain offenses but not to others. Thus, homosexuals involved in a sinful arrangements but who, as a group, suffer some type of condemnation such as legal impediments, or criticism such as disdain, have already suffered and are not to be informed or instructed as to teachings of the Church or the bible, and are to be treated mildly, while those who criticize them and apply church teachings are thought to be applying pain-inflicting judgment and are then treated harshly, and, if vocal and subject to papal power, are removed from authoirity. It is likely also for this reason that Pope Francis does not clearify his thinking because he does not (? can not?) follow the historic teachings of the Church, while attempting to diminish the recognition of sinful conduct that already has, to his thinking, includes punishment and condemnation, do not need to be applied to these particular sins. Love is paramount and sin must be forgiven to the degree that it must not even be acknowledged except in the most esoteric way necessary to deal with known church teachings. In conducting his papacy this way, he removes condemnation, separation, and, what he sees as mistreatment from Church teachings for mere physical weakness for minor sins. Pope Francis, with his own brand of love, then replaces the bible, the teachings of Christ, and the traditional Church. Some Jesuits try to out-Jesus, Jesus Himself, but do not see it themselves, and this leads to confusion and departure from the law of God. In his application of "love" Pope Francis is actually cruel in being kind as he subjects souls to eternal punishment and confuses the faithful.

[@mikeparle1381]

It is straight forward. A 6 year old preparing fo first communion knows that sin cannot be blessed. The buck on all of this lies with the pope and the hierarchy. They must begin to lead the 1.4 Billion catholics in our world. But not to perdition.

[@user-fc1ld9ts8u]

@@mikeparle1381 I believe Pope Francis is in error. Beyond that, I try - with great difficulty - to not judge him. I also understand the great anger directed against him for so many errors. Father James Altman comes to mind, and I wonder if the Holy Spirit is working through him. But for myself, after all is said and done, and for the reason there is little we can do as individuals, I think the approach that Cardinal Burke and Bishop Athanasius Schneider have taken set is a good example of how to deal with this popes repeated unorthodox to actions. For example, Bishop Schneider has stated that Pope Francis is a cross that we must bear. I think it is worth repeating that to me that some Jesuits seem to try to out-Jesus, Jesus. There are a number of examples of this in addition to Pope Francis. Father James Martin is a good candidate. They seem to attempt to be more compassionate than our Lord towards sinners even if it means to not acknowledging and repenting sin. I can certainly understand and agree with the frustration that Pope Francis has caused without reason, and Pope Francis is not to be followed in these actions. We must hope we and our Church will not only out live him, but live to see our Church recover from his unfortunate papacy. Dominus vobiscum.

[@challengable]

Your last analysis is in total truth sir. We want the supernatural to redeem us. We want to bend down on our knees at the foot of the cross with Mary, St. John, Mary Magdalene. We wish to prepare for The Kingdom. We want His only Church on Earth to help us through tradition, faith, hierarchy, sacraments.

[@user-gq7xj4bc6k]

I worked alongside a lot of Catholics who agree completely with Pope Francis. He gave them what they want.

[@Pine_eagle_1985]

Yes it seems that’s what he does. He follows the utilitarian handbook then dresses it up in the false “christian” love put forward in situationism.

[@peternadeau9486]

Very helpful. Thank you.

[@orsinigl]

A similar “bottom up” theme associated with contemporary spirituality is identified by Fr. Paul Murray in “A JOURNEY WITH JONAH” i.e, with its hyper focus on introspection and finding God within the soul, it all but ignores the transcendence nature of God as made known to us through divine revelation and communicated by the Church.

[@AndrewLane-pm2ro]

Fiducia Supplicans raises what I think is an important theological question: Would a priest actually be committing a sin by blessing a same-sex couple?

[@femaleKCRoyalsFan]

Well if they are a SS "couple" they aren't living chastely! SSA that live chastely DON'T have a boyfriend if gay or a girlfriend if lesbian.

[@justthink8952]

Blessing same sex couple implied blessing their union. Jesus told the woman caught in adultery to go and sin no more. Jesus also said if we remember we have sinned against a brother, then leave our gifts at the altar and go, make peace with him and then come and offer the gifts. This means, for a gift to be acceptable to God, the cause of sin must be removed. Jesus did not work much miracles in his home town because they did not believe in him. Peter also rebuked a magician who tried to buy the gift of the holy spirit. John the Baptist also called out King Herod for marrying his brother's wife. Paul also warned that wilful sinners will be cut off. All these instances points towards one thing. That is, where there is sin, blessings don't occur. Sin blocks blessings. Pope Francis' was attempting to appropriate or rather say abuse the authority given to Peter by Jesus Christ

[@geoffreystephen6840]

heterosexuals never commit sexual sins do they-- God love them!@@justthink8952

[@mmont]

A blasphemy according tio Cardinal Mueller.

[@JudeThaddeus1]

Yes. Affirming another in their sin is a sin. All the more if you’re a priest.

[@Philipm592]

It seems to me that your guest was explaining a theology of the church with out the cross. The cross is what brings meaning and conversation to a person. Denial of one's self is what brings us closer to God. All the saints knew this and lived it practicing contemplation living in the present moment with God.

[@CatholicCristero]

GREAT VIDEO!

[@francismcglynn4169]

“Hegel uses the word positive to describe any religion that is grounded on authority, and Judaism and Christianity are usually represented as being positive religions. A positive religion, he says, is “a religion which is grounded in authority, and puts man’s worth not at all, or at least not wholly, in morals”. Hegel was at one with the Enlightenment in rejecting the positivity of the Christian religion, but he also thought the Enlightenment had misunderstood the importance of religion for the education of the human spirit. This has resulted in an impression that Hegel’s work is much more benevolent to Christianity than in fact it is.” [ The Mass and Modernity by Fr. Jonathan Robinson of the Oratory pg. 123 ]

[@eaglehawkpanther]

Before I ditched the local woke Novus Ordo (Hawera, New Zealand) to attend the truly pious SSPX, my local Priest used to spit out all of this nonsense. He never preached on sin. Women gave homilies. The commandments were negotiable. Mortal sins were treated as non-existant. The examination of conscience was a list of unobtainable ideals. Confessions were only available once a year. Our Priest even bragged that he wouldn't have past the theory requirements to become a Priest (middle-aged convert) without a huge dose of nepotism. They also formally supported same sex sin years before the woke Pope made it official.

[@femaleKCRoyalsFan]

Glad you found the TLM. I would have run sooner if that was my church....first to complain to the bishop

[@fulviocosta3308]

We are getting there, unfortunately

[@soniavadnjal7553]

What a.nightmare. Glad you got out of it.

[@tomthx5804]

No Catholic can routinely attend the SSPX masses. You got suckered in by a very common trick of the devil. He has people who seem pious, but then little by little, they get you to hate the church, and only cling to their fake, made up APE of a church. Get out while you still can. I know many crappy priests are out there, and many weak liturgies. But you are being misled.

[@bruh-dg5yw]

Most Novus Ordo parishes are not like this bruh. Sorry you had a bad experience, but that doesn’t constitute the order itself.

[@marilynmelzian7370]

I see hope in people like you.😊

[@muokwuestanley]

The Holy Spirit is Bubbling up like popcorn, balloons, bubbles from the individual experience of every person. This is theology from Hell.

[@billburtis8616]

If a homosexual turns away from same sex behaviors and becomes chaste, hasn’t that person achieved the ideal and become obedient to a commandment? I read articles written by homosexuals who have successfully accomplished this reality. So if it is possible for some, why is it not possible for all homosexuals? I believe it is and the Church should encourage that.

[@petraskisielius9353]

Thank you for such an excellent, insightful summary of Pope Francis‘s aberrant theology

[@mmont]

God's commandments are not ideals. They are possible through grace. "My grace is enough for you."

[@ichthus1890]

I might agree that the Hierarchy attains equivalence with the Bourgeoisie when it issues self-contradictory declarations such as Fiducia Supplicans and it becomes necessary for the Holy Spirit to act through the Proletariat/laity to redirect the Church.

[@anamariamonttemayorderamir4198]

Excelente

[@kathysiebers2058]

Opinion versus actual Church teachings. This pope teaches according to his opinion IMHO knowing if he says it deceptively enough, people will follow him. Again IMHO

[@dougmoore5252]

Has The changed the catechism about kill versus murder?

[@mmont]

Mercy vs Truth, a con game. 👍

[@user-gl9jd3ih8h]

Thank God, Larry isn't a Cardinal. Commiserations to Cardinal Burke.

[@Lcoch2482]

You're right it is a "theology from below" as it comes from the pit of hell. You've described Modernism the synthesis of all heresies with it's foundation of phenomenology.

[@aseeker2109]

The Catholic Thing website Subscribe Button doesn't work!!!!

[@matthewgaulke8094]

I'm in the process of coming back to The Church. I don't think I'd even be considering the questions that led me back to The Church without the Postmodernists...the Woke so to come back and see the Pope acting like a hippie is so cringe. I agree that people don't need a watered down hip inclusive Church. We get that message everywhere else. I want my religion to work rather than scoring me social credit.

[@danwalter1459]

Hello, can a heretical priest, Bishop, Cardinal, Pope legitimately excommunicated one of the faithful who does not go along with what they are teaching?

[@suzannespanier4492]

Maybe they’ll feel shame in the pew…that should send them running for sure…they think shame is a violence put on them by others, rather it rises from within themselves… from their creator. They will meet Him if they stay. You have to come humble. Ask Him to reveal Himself to you. Commandment one. ❤

[@francismcglynn4169]

“When Christ who is your life appears, then you also will appear with Him in glory.” (Colossians 3:4) The crux of the statement is that Christ has to be your life. If that is the case then all the things from your past which kept Christ from truly living in you will have been overcome by grace. By your fruits you will be known as a disciple of Christ.

[@francismcglynn4169]

St. John the Apostle, the last instrument of Revelation, the last person, according to Tradition, who taught elements of revelation taught in the book of Revelation about 95 A.D the following: “The book(i.e. Revelation) seeks to alert Christians to the grave dangers which threaten faith, while consoling and encouraging those who are suffering tribulation, particularly due to the fierce and long-drawn-out persecution mounted by Domitian. The very earliest heresies were already wreaking havoc among the Christian communities: the Nicolaitans were arguing in favour of some degree of compromise with idolatry and pagan lifestyles (cf. 2:7, 14) and there was evidence of a loss of early fervour (2:4) and a slackening of charity (3:2)” [The Revelation to John (The Apocalypse), The Navarre Bible (Dublin; New York: Four Courts Press; Scepter Publishers, 2005), 14.]

[@mmont]

Hold on to divine revelation. Don't trust your imagination or anybody else's fantadu regardin g salvation.

[@ericschilling9757]

I STUDIED CIVILIZATION AND RELIGION FOR 60 YEARS. In this century, people have been gradually getting more and more afraid of the future. I can understand why, but authoritarianism, whether it's political or RELIGIOUS, only makes matters worse. For 12,000 years civilizations have been collapsing, and usually one of the final stages is a drift to the far-right. Strickland and the Christian far-right are ACCELERATING collapse. Please don't be part of the problem. The unconditional love of Jesus was part of the solution. And all of this is obvious...if you aren't stuck in fear.

[@gabrielolearnik7220]

The Holy Mother of God was morally perfect.

[@lmgracie8227]

Strange how seemingly intelligent people can be so clueless

[@brianwalsh7352]

Theology upside down is denying Christ's sacrifice and His salvific misson by denying the reality that hell is eternal or that anybody goes there. Oh, right...Chapp says hell exists. Great, good, grand. But it's not eternal or nobody is there. Believing as he does, what is Chapp going on about? He's the caricature of the Christian scold who must truly just want to deny people their "fun" because if there's no consequence, why shouldn't people do as the please?

[@JudeThaddeus1]

We get a regular dose of this modernist garbage at my parish. Today was that the God of the Old Testament was mean and vengeful with His Commandments, but Jesus the God of the New Testament is forgiving and accepting and interested in accompaniment and encounter and He knows we were created imperfectly so he doesn’t expect us to be perfect. Yes, this was a priest spouting this heresy.

[@dodi7420]

Please don’t call it magic.