Carrier Economizer W/ Siemens Climatix Control First Bad Impressions

This was a carrier economizer installation gone wrong, nothing fit, instructions weren't properly provided for the correct controller. The Siemens controller is way harder to program than the Jade control. What a epic failure.
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#hvacrsurvival #Carrier, #economizer

[@HVACRSurvival]

All right before I start hearing about it. I know I was bitching nonstop, but I'm tired of all this equipment being total dog shit.. you really should've heard the unedited version. You would've really gotten a kick out of that if you think this one's extreme, what do you guys think about a unedited members only page, would you pay two or three dollars a month?

[@Neto-1984]

Maybe if you strap on a blood pressure monitor, I might consider it .

[@Josh.SPublishingTeams2024L]

Hm i imagine😅

[@knoxe1]

Definitely

[@xtrekadventure8225]

I've gotten to the point where, if I do a start up, I practically touch every bolt with a paint pen as I go around doing checks. I tighten fan hubs, set screws, contactor terminals, compressor terminals, VFD terminal blocks. The other day we had a reheat coil just loosen up one side of the coil bracket and fall, also the head pressure switch for the condenser fan cycle was so loose it came off by hand. I've told my boss my job would be easier if they just sent disassembled units to me and let me build it on site.

[@HVACRSurvival]

Cheaper labor and no value system is how we got here.

[@rick43pen]

Seamens climax control? Great name branding.

[@topher8634]

No joke.

[@zack9912000]

It was no accident

[@HughesManHVAC]

might as well add orgasmattron to that name

[@philjafo2]

The usb stick is basically a WiFi antenna, it’s highly recommended. When they first came out micrometle put on a webinar about them and flat out said the screen was a last minute addition. It was designed to do everything with the app.

[@subcoolHVAC]

If only the Bypass Plug was left with every install… the humidity here in FL is guaranteed corrosion on the controller connections .. Thanks for the video!

[@HVACRSurvival]

I hear Economizers don’t get used much in Florida

[@subcoolHVAC]

@@HVACRSurvival only for OA during occupied mode in the South

[@Josh.SPublishingTeams2024L]

Hi Rick, its me Josh, i really dislike thesr Simens controls! 1- they are hard to programme 2- you need to buy a usb stick to get the app 3- most people dislike them! Great videos man! But i dont know why Carrier stopped using the Honeywell Jade controls! I really like the Honeywell controls better! These controls are a waste of time & money! But thats crazy a semi truck destroyed the A/C & the other two refrigerator condensers! But what I saw from watching HVACR Videos is that sometimes the dip switch has been factory setted wrong.

[@HVACRSurvival]

Thanks for sharing! I got a call from Cris today telling me about what you’re saying. 🤣👍👍

[@billlaporte8255]

LOVE to watch your vids man. Thanks for doing them. They are great!

[@HVACRSurvival]

I appreciate that! Thank you!

[@jaymartin5095]

Thank you for all your effort to help us learn. Super stuff.

[@HVACRSurvival]

My pleasure!

[@harlemjonez4853]

Lennox has that white siemens gizmo on a few as well

[@HVACRSurvival]

I seen their advertisement for it when I was making the title for this video. At least they send a video out showing you how to set it up.

[@helmsajr]

Great job Rick economizer are always fun fun to work on.

[@HVACRSurvival]

You got that right!

[@Luzgar]

You can either build it square or leave some tolerances, but you have to pick one of the two.

[@johnwalker890]

Great job Rick.........

[@oscalerup1129]

That’s crazy Rick. We do so little new equipment on our light commercial that I think we’ve installed 4 economizers. Most of them were Trane and those suck. They also suck to work on but I’m sure that’s just because I don’t understand them. The best one was a Ruud. Literally tool like 5 minutes slide the damper in screw it in wiring was all there. Same thing in the other side for the JADE controller. That’s about the only Honeywell product I like 😜

[@EyesofIllusion]

Your lucky that the carrier you were working had the economizer harness. My was a nightmare. 8 new carriers 20 tons all of them I had to fix all the wirings and match them because they decided the connection from the Siemen actuator is female molex plug and the carrier unit molex plug that goes to the econo to carrier board is also a female connection and the wiring did not match. I had to do one at a time with each wire to cut, splice and add male and female spade connection. In the end I got them all working. Now with the Lennoxs there easier because Lennox actually has the start up sheet with the parameters to set up on the Siemen controller. I used micromelt website and got the schematic for the Siemen controller wire set up. So when I used it on the carriers I was going by the schematic for the Siemen controller and the carrier schematic they both did not match up didn't match up with each other. Plus I couldn't get the economizer harness conversation because they weren't in stock.

[@HVACRSurvival]

I’m glad I’m not just crazy

[@princesswalt4010]

If you don’t bleed, you done not do it right! Those dampers really should have had rubber seals on the ends to allow that wiggle room. Cheap-o stuff! Good vid as usual, mate!

[@ayoutubewatcher7009]

how do you always get to work on equipment you can pull up too?

[@HVACRSurvival]

It’s to make up for shit like this. 😂

[@HughesManHVAC]

True!

[@CameronKettner]

The jade controller can only do two speed fan, the Siemens one can do 3 speeds for cooling. A lot of the new units are coming with 3 step cooling and this controller. Lennox especially is doing 2 stage compressor on circuit 1 and then single stage compressor on circuit 2, which allows for the unit to have 3 different airflows and 3 different levels of cooling. If you get the wifi stick for the Siemens controller the app makes it really easy.

[@HVACRSurvival]

That makes sense 👍👍

[@nonamesplease8228]

Makes you miss the old Honeywell A,B,C,D economizer control

[@HVACRSurvival]

yep

[@Jamie-po9zk]

You can still get those

[@lavina58]

Awesome video 🙌🙌🙌👌😊👍🙏🍀

[@sterlingarcher46]

And the sad part is that whoever is gonna work on that unit after you is never gonna know what you've done to make it work and he's just gonna take it for granted . He might even give you grief for some stupid sh*t or give the classic : " a whole day for that ? Huh I used to start 4 of those up a day " 😂

[@zekenzy6486]

Great video. Thank you for sharing. What is type of blower motor ?

[@HVACRSurvival]

Basically, it's a direct drive ECM motor. That will be our next set of problems.

[@BrickTop900]

Ziehl abegg?

[@HughesManHVAC]

First time someone leans on that outside air hood, bypass plug!

[@MrSilence99]

At my work I ended up ripping all the economizers out. Now i just open the vents manually when we need more fresh air lol. Junk

[@sterlingarcher46]

Reminds me of some of the bullsh*t I gotta deal with when doing commissioning. Most of the time the bigger part of the blame is on the installer but the QC on the equipment itself is getting worse and worse its just becoming ridiculous at this point .

[@HVACRSurvival]

Thanks Sterling!

[@Pippy626]

I don’t see why they wouldn’t have a 1/4 in nylon washer to gap top and bottom and a 1/4 gasket along all 4 sides

[@HVACRSurvival]

You and me both ....I guess we're just common sense kind of people in a uncommon world.

[@daveg8918]

Did they give you crap about how long it took?

[@HVACRSurvival]

Since the installer was supposed to install this when he installed the unit, they've already lost money so I guess maybe with me there all day to make sure it worked wasn't too big a deal but I did tell them what was going on.

[@RSBot2jar]

I'm surprised that you could actually change things in that siemens controller. A lot of controllers I work with from siemens all require proprietary software to program them. Mafia practices.

[@HVACRSurvival]

Sounds about right 👍👍

[@acrservicesmathewr7565]

Maybe a metal shim on the bottom can lift just enough but I’m guessing the point is to not bypass any air. Why it’s vertical and not horizontal. There was nothing wrong with the old ones

[@harbosonius]

It's just unavoidable these days. There's not a single piece of equipment that is made nowadays that doesn't reek of unreliability, cheap corner cutting and overzealous engineers in one way or another. If that's not bad enough, it's also like the quality control depts at some of these manufacturers are non existent anymore. It's really sad.

[@jrsmyth9761]

The new no leak standards are responsible for the lack of "slop" built into the economizers now. Thank the government. The USB stick with the app makes these a breeze to set up. You can save multiple "programs" and then just upload them as you want for that location. It is quite shitty of them to make you buy the USB stick rather than provide one. As others have stated, something about the Jade is not compliant with some new government requirement. Remember, neither Carrier nor Micrometl give a shit if the thing works!!! I wonder how it would be to have the units set up from the factory with the economizer installed. Would it be any better?

[@HVACRSurvival]

Did you see the Mexican engineering in my start up from hell video?. That should answer your question. That was a total cluster …

[@jrsmyth9761]

@@HVACRSurvival Carrier equipment has gone downhill quite rapidly lately. Back to cheap, fast, good - you only get 2.

[@tonylaw196]

I would be replace the Siemens Controller to Johnson Controls Metasys controller.

[@gordonborsboom7460]

Your frustration is giving me Economiser anxiety again. Why are the universally a pain in the ass? Maybe aftermarket economizers should revert to factory built units.

[@HVACRSurvival]

The problem is there's only one or two companies making the economizer, that was micro Metal that made this one. I think they make economizers for everybody.

[@LokiBoi_UwU]

Is that eco blower

[@HVACRSurvival]

Yep

[@LokiBoi_UwU]

@@HVACRSurvival ugh hate then things

[@commenter5469]

That’s a lot of monkeying around!

[@henningquast8456]

Good god, those package units are junk. Thankfully, we don’t have junk like this in Germany. At least all the manufacturers here get their equipment half way square and level.

[@jasonjohnsonHVAC]

Im a fan of the Belimo Zip....watching this....made me more of a fan of the Belimo Zip. 😂😂😂😂😂. What a pain, impossible...no....but still a pain

[@Eddy63]

Just about everything is junk now a days Nice job , you make us proud ... Thx

[@zack9912000]

bet the truck driver is looking for work

[@HVACRSurvival]

🤣👍👍

[@angrybeavers1175]

Carrier sucks, aaon aucks, york/johnson double sucks good times.

[@tschuuuls486]

There is still Daikin and a few others to try :D

[@angrybeavers1175]

@tschuuuls486 worked on 2 300 ton daikin chillers 2 years ago, chillers were 1 year old and all four circuits were leaking like crazy from the same flange. Also had other leaks throughout. Changed the cores and they were the worst ones I've seen from something untouched and brand new from factory. Had flakes and copper shavings all through them.

[@rugged1987]

These Siemens economizers are absolute trash out of the box and your lucky if you even get everything with it!

[@HVACRSurvival]

They told me that they couldn't get enough Jade controllers so they switched to it. That's probably why they got that blemo too. I don't mind their actuators, but I don't know if I really wanna deal with the limo blemo.

[@akshonclip]

Standing damper vanes on their side is a bad idea. The pivot sockets fill up with dirt and subsequent corrosion in short order. Bad design on the manufacturer part. These younger millennial designers have no ability to think outside of the box and it’s getting worse.

[@Freezier134a]

More carrier garbage.

[@rogerghiardi7723]

Carrier sucks

[@HVACRSurvival]

Looking that way huh 🤔