CARTA Presents The Origins of Today's Humans - John Hawks, How Homo Naledi Matters to Our Origins

(01:38 - Main Presentation)
Where did we humans come from? When did we become the dominant species on the planet?
Experts take you on an exploration of the last half-decade of new evidence from ancient DNA, fossils, archaeology and population studies that has updated our knowledge about The Origins of Today's Humans. Recorded on 02/21/2020. [Show ID: 35719]
More from: CARTA: Exploring the Origins of Today's Humans
(www.uctv.tv/ca...)
UCTV is the broadcast and online media platform of the University of California, featuring programming from its ten campuses, three national labs and affiliated research institutions. UCTV explores a broad spectrum of subjects for a general audience, including science, health and medicine, public affairs, humanities, arts and music, business, education, and agriculture. Launched in January 2000, UCTV embraces the core missions of the University of California -- teaching, research, and public service - by providing quality, in-depth television far beyond the campus borders to inquisitive viewers around the world.
(www.uctv.tv)

[@KevinRMoore]

Just blows my mind that Naledi kept going back into the cave over and over finding their way back to the same chamber,,,, in complete darkness. Big thanks to all who are involved in these discoveries and to all those who are making these videos public, Awesomeness!

[@LM-lv6fv]

Really love CARTA 💖 Such an exciting time!!... studying deep history to best face our future... so wonderful👍

[@deeliciousplum]

Thank you to UCTV and to CARTA for making this enlightening talk accessible. What John Hawks is sharing of is breathtaking. 🌸

[@briangarrow448]

I ALWAYS appreciate these posts, especially when the entire country is staying home. The story of the discovery of the Rising Star cave system is one story that will be remembered.

[@peggygross7409]

You can actually watch them as they are excavating. The skype with classrooms all over the world.

[@HighlyCompelling]

Phylogenic analysis is really fascinating. Puts human evolution in a whole new light.

[@AshleeKnowsNot]

Couldn't have come out at a better time. :)

[@BigfootAnthropologist]

This excellent presentation by John Hawkes on Homo Naledi and the bones recovered by archaeologists from the Rising Star Cave system was fascinating! The knowledge of the cave system and the mortuary behavior of these Homimins is amazing to ponder. It is the opposite of popular culture's presentation of "cave men" (how I despise that term!). I was impressed by John Hawkes' command of the subject matter and how it relates to other research being presented at the conference. I'm looking forward to following the progress on these and other excavations mentioned in the talk. One other point that I'd like to make is that as an archaeologist who worked on numerous excavations during my forty year career, I am in awe at the talent and the bravery of the archaeologists who conducted the survey of the cave system and the excavations of the burials. I am a big brawny male who braved many elements and difficulties in the field throughout my career, but the only way that I would be able to get out of the cave system once I was in it would be for this team of archaeologists to recover my body or for a future team of archaeologists to recover my bones. Kudos to John Hawkes and all of the members of the team!

[@marcverhaegen7943]

No "mortuary" behaviour of course! The bones bones simply got there when the caves formed underneath the swamp forests were Australopithecus naledi lived, google "not Homo but Australopithecus naledi? verhaegen".

[@marcverhaegen7943]

No "mortuary" behaviour of course! The bones bones simply got there when the caves formed underneath the swamp forests were Australopithecus naledi lived, google "not Homo but Australopithecus naledi? verhaegen".

[@RileyRampant]

@@marcverhaegen7943 what you just posted (twice) is complete nonsense.

[@caseyjude5472]

I really loved this talk. I have enjoyed following the careers of Dr. Elliott & Dr. Peixotto, and I am excited to learn about the others. From the moment I watched an old live stream in late 2015 (I missed it when it was happening live) to now, I continue to be absolutely fascinated with these discoveries. I especially love the openness of this discovery- that the world didn’t have to wait a decade to learn of Naledi. It’s one of my favorite things to share with people- “Do you know about the Rising Star cave in South Africa? No? Lemme tell you a story!”

[@mwj5368]

Great presentation and have loved Dr. Hawks's exciting presentations in the past! Experiencing interviews and presentations on Naledi and the cave findings... I haven't seen anything being discovered of their material culture. I suppose their concept of death and disposing of bodies must not have involved anything of their material artifacts. Have such artifacts been found yet? Thanks UCTV for making this possible!

[@drbigmdftnu]

From everything I've read - no - no artifacts, tools or other evidence of material culture has been found. If anyone heard different, please comment.

[@mwj5368]

@@drbigmdftnu Hi Michael! Thanks for taking the time for your input!

[@RA-do6et]

I have watched this more than a dozen times and it is still fascinating to watch. I'd love to (try to) communicate with such ancient species. Most likely the cave was habitable or explorable but gave in unexpectedly and they were unable to get out of it.

[@novabigstar1509]

How did they navigate these caves I wonder. I assume they had fire/torches ? I've been in caves and its impossible to move around with no light efficiently.

[@lcmiracle]

Well, since I watched another video about how the cave was explored, it sounded to me quite unlikely the cave was shaped the way the are today, due to how difficult it was for the team to reach the final chamber where they found those fossilized bones. The women had to be some petite that I don't think the H. Naledi would have chosen those caves for either burial or waste disposal. This reminds me of another video from KARTA lectures where they found some hominidae fossils in caves in a cliff by the sea, but they think the fossils fell into those crevices over time. I think the H. Naledi group who lived at the site chose those caves for a reason, but not for the difficulties involved in navigating it.

[@potaxe8048]

Still I think H. Naledi who lived at the site chose those caves, precisely, for the difficulties involved in navigating it. I believe these H. Naledi know the dead people do not move (or believe the dead people move clumsy, with difficulties or “walking dead style”) … still they fear the death people comeback. If not all, most burial traditions since the beginning of burial traditions are trying to make practically impossible for the deceased to come back. In an environment where there are not a lot of big and heavy stone to put over the deceased, a heavy difficult access cave is a good solution to stop his/her comeback. Look at the known and ancient taboo of no to pronounce the deceased name at his/her funeral. We fear the death, and the death is the dead person.

[@loquat44-40]

Some of the of final resting places were certainly out of the way, most likely far removed from sunlight and I agree also, how did they find their way. So the question does remain, how did they find their way. The chute that they used might have been intended to keep things like hyenas and such out. Parts of the system must have smelled very badly in the summer from the decomposition of the bodies if they were tossed in intact. Rodents and snakes is one thing that comes to mind. Rodent after the carrion and snakes feed off the rodents. Africa has some most unpleasant serpents. It is strange that so far no rodents or reptiles bones have been recovered. I would expect at least some insect structures to have been found.

[@bigDbigDbigD]

Questions: Has it been determined if Naladi used fire?

[@sre1995]

@@bigDbigDbigD no tools and no ise of fire have been found till now

[@eymoor]

Great presentation. I have been following paleoanthropolgical research for decades. It is funny how the picture get more and more blurred as new findings come in. Fascinating

[@gusto7762]

Dr Hawks outstanding presentation! Wish I could study under you!

[@lottesrensen8004]

My deepest respect for those people doing this work climbing into the earth under these impossible conditions...I dont identify as claustrophobic but still......I really wouldn't like going in there and staying for any amount of time. I applause you and thank you for this interesting discoveries

[@larryparis925]

The section beginning at 17:19, and the graph shown shortly after that, is key. Great information.

[@OspreyFlyer]

👍

[@scottjustscott3730]

I don't think the world understands how earth shattering this material is! Not my part of the world anyway. This hominin shouldn't exist but here it is. Mind blown.

[@ronkirk5099]

Man, what a great find of so many individuals and relatively complete skeletons.Tough excavating conditions, but worth the effort to add another piece to the puzzle of our origins.

[@mathewdallaway]

The best talk on this topic I have seen. Terrific.

[@MarcusBrandel]

Will you be able to post a recording of you "Outliers" Paleo Talk from Dec 12 2020?

[@alexc.c.4025]

Very interesting. So much time, effort, energy, dedication etc put into all this work. Still, evidence shows clearly that we have not evolved from all those previous creatures, but are rather modified and created at some point in history.

[@garyhewitt489]

In Gibbons (oh the irony) "Decline and fall of the Roman Empire", which I read years ago I remember a section on the games, where various species were hunted to extinction for entertainment at the games . One of the species mentioned was described as a "primative humanlike ape creature ", and I always wondered if these were the last of our long lost hominid relatives enslaved carted off to be slaughtered for the entertainment of the masses as late as two thousand years ago. It was such a horrific image to me, exterminating species for entertainment. Gory bloody sacrifice for the thrill of it. The Romans were unmoved by the spectacle, although the wailing anguish of the Elephants being slaughtered did upset them a bit . But to think a hominid species was so close to making it into modern times is tantalising, perhaps somewhere in N Africa perhaps there's some primative remains that when carbon dated are only two thousand years old !

[@krisinsaigon]

Wow good spot, I have read that book but that line passed me by Maybe I’ll reread Gibbon now I have time on my hands

[@garyhewitt489]

@@krisinsaigon Alas I no longer have my copy, It was a constant companion, completed cover to cover in my youth and dipped into for many a year, old worn, stained and dog eared as any good book should be. The "primative human like apes were given a name but I cannot remember what they were called.

[@legalvampire8136]

The question would be what Ancient writing was the source of Gibbon's information and exactly what it says. Could it be a reference to a known modern ape species?

[@garyhewitt489]

@@legalvampire8136 You are right of course. It is far more likely to have been great apes captured and traded to the Romans. Classicists love.ancient Rome and tend to lets say "gloss over" the bits that show Rome in a bad light. The original source or at least some copy of it may have survived somewhere. I was quite young when I read the book, I was aware of the extent of the Roman empire but it hadn't even crossed my mind the extent of the trading links. I am now aware of items sourced in Afghanistan, Indonesia India China and most likely sub Saharan, Africa being available to Romans.

[@krisinsaigon]

@@legalvampire8136 my guesss would be it would be an ape. there were trading links going down the atlantic coast of africa for ivory and gold and there could have been a chimp or gorilla exchanged then As memory recalls, Gibbon gives pretty detailed citations of all his sources throughout so if you found the page it would be in there

[@valeriejeanfirst3234]

One part of the explanation of this cave, I can’t understand. I know these past people were small but the people going in there now, I don’t see how it is physically possible to fit through a space 7.5 inches. I have heard that dimension in every talk and wonder about it. It’s not an important factor except it is part of most reports on this find. Maybe, in earlier times, that may or may not have been the dimension and could influence the thoughts but if modern humans can fit down a 7.5 inch space.......Is that really a correct present dimension?

[@BenCipolliniSD]

Great talk!

[@aclearlight]

A wonderful talk!

[@americalost5100]

Was this speaker part of the original investigation?

[@StephiSensei26]

Great! And, great work.

[@shawncarroll5255]

If we can have a Great Flood tradition across much of the Middle East (exaggerated but that's almost the essence of storytelling) from an event 10,000 years ago give or take a couple of thousand, how long could a tradition of "little people" have survived? I am sadly nearly totally ignorant of traditions of that sort in Sub-Saharan Africa, but if any enothgraphers (fancy way of studying someone else's storytellers) or just people who still have access to traditional stories from that region can comment it would be interesting. Maybe H. naledi used caves to stay concealed from their larger cousins, and lived in small, isolated extended family groups in niche environments like the Bushmen of the Kalahari. The Bushmen managed to force a truce on lions with fire hardened arrows and nasty poisons (smart lions discovered hunting Bushmen was a suicide pact - cats eventually can be taught) which is something that would be almost invisible in the fossil record. They are now being displaced, but last I read (over a decade ago so ancient history) their truce may have lasted nearly 50,000 years.

[@aloha1286]

love this. Thanks for the information.

[@Robot_Overlord]

Great lecture

[@howardstewart2549]

terrific lecture. I first learned of this video by watching UCTV program on cable tv on 12/13/23. The newly discovered Naledi hominid species has been found to have coexisted, but not necessarily having been a causal association with homosapiens. Michael Cremo, a mainstream archaeologist, some 25 years ago, or so, stuck his neck out & publicly admitted to subscribing to the unconventional & professionally hated theory of “interventionism” or what is today called “ Ancient Astronaut Theory” as can be pushed on the History Channel. Research & science has been corrupted by funding/grant problems. Vested interests have rooted this shameful disinformation, lying, & dishonest campaign. An alien, NWO agenda, needs to be publicly discussed, extraterrestrial disclosure will have to occur, Someone in the establishment scientific community is needed to courageously support the truth & confront the elephant in the room!

[@steveshoemaker6347]

WOW a lot of questions....Thanks very much....!

[@francissantos7448]

Thanks uctv. Maybe these guys are nocturnal?

[@Reziac]

I want to see Naledi's DNA analysis (as best can be scraped together) .... and whether this more human-like species is the unknown admixture found only in modern Africans.

[@tolbaszy8067]

The likely scenario for the Rising Sun Cave is it was a hibernaculum or sleep chamber where Naledi could spend time safely in restorative sleep. In the Cradle of Humanity, Rising Sun Cave is the Cradle of Dreams. There are no artifacts included with the "burials" to support the deliberate funeral hypothesis. The bone depositions are due to natural attrition of individuals during their sleep cycles. Psychological evolution may not manifest in fossils. The deposition of H. naledi bones in a limited access space is due to a behavior, not a random incident, so that inorganic and non-mineralized action is preserved in a "pattern" of fossilized bone.

[@cartoonraccoon2078]

Did Rick Hunter eventually end up with Skull #1?

[@garymacmillan]

The two spelunkers were sent into the cave by Lee Berger and it was he and his team that developed the site. He had assigned the cavers a large number of sites to initially explore.

[@ottarvendel]

This video reveals no news. What has happend the last years?

[@americalost5100]

16:50...... How is it that large and small apes and monkeys co-exist on same continents today? Is this really that difficult of a problem to understand?

[@comradecid]

has its dna been sequenced yet?

[@TAYLORYOURLIFE]

What if... We combine multiregional evolution with intermittent intercession punctuated by population bottlenecks that leave isolated species obsolete and eventually go extinct... Example: Multiple regional groups who developed many different traits within their group would occasionally be intergressed with other groups creating many variations of basically the same species regionally but allowing a flow of genes that can lead to a superior body plan over time that isn't represented in any one group. This would lead from the many forms of australopithicus to Homo erectus... This would mean that homo erectus is a result of multiple previous ancestral species that all contributed to the groundbreaking conglomerate of traits that is homo erectus. This would allow ancestral populations continue to fill their regional niches until homo erectus was established and began to establish its range. As homo erectus expanded its range it outcompeted ancestral populations and infrequently intermixed adding genes as its range spread replacing some ancestral groups through outcompeting them with a superior body plan and others by admixture. This would leave some ancient species behind that homo erectus did not expand into their territory such as homo naledi or homo florensis but also allow for erectus to continue to adapt and expand as it acquired genes from ancestral populations and environmental pressures as it expanded its range. As homo expanded its range across the globe (except the americas) the process started over. Pockets of homo erectus separated geographically and genetically adapted and regionalized with intermittent introgression giving rise to neanderthal, sapiens, (ghost African lineage), and denisovans. Sapiens then repeated what erectus had already done having accumulated a lottery of traits from multiple ancestral groups until they hit they jackpot... Through a climate change or other bottleneck they opportunistically expanded their range interbreeding with ancestral populations and outcompeted them from their superior body plan or population size replacing populations as their territory expanded obtaining traits and for the first time culture and technology. This is how they could live contemperaneously with other homo groups and still be "different"....

[@hans_von_twitchy1014]

Question for John Hawks: Has anyone excavated the entrance into the Rising Star Cave System looking for Naledi cultural artifacts?

[@PaulHigginbothamSr]

My guess is that as interested as Naledi was with this cave we will someday find a twin to this cave in the local area. Since it's cranium has 1/3 or less volume we might find a cave less than 7.5 inches entry.

[@faybrianhernandez2416]

Who matters to Naledi's origins and who to their origin and the origins of those before them? Who is LUCA (last universal common ancestor) ? if you wanna go talking about ancestors.

[@Bit-while_going]

How did the Naledi get so deep in the cave? Well they just Naledied their way in.

[@marcverhaegen7943]

:-) IMO the bones got there when the caves formed underneath the swamp forests where Australopithecus naledi lived, google "not Homo but Australopithecus naledi? verhaegen".

[@marcverhaegen7943]

:-) IMO the bones got there when the caves formed underneath the swamp forests where Australopithecus naledi lived, google "not Homo but Australopithecus naledi? verhaegen".

[@Bit-while_going]

@@marcverhaegen7943 The skull of Homo Naledi isn't shaped much like other ancient hominids. It's much rounder. Based on that alone it would not have such a close relation to homo Erectus or any of the others. I think it's specialized for the caves and maybe also for using rocks to make tools. Of course further studies of fossils all over the world will clarify things even further.

[@Ozgipsy]

Everyday we seem closer and closer to finally accepting we are a world of hybrid human species. That’s actually what modern Homo Sapien is.

[@sharonhearne5014]

One thing which occurred to me was to wonder if other hominem groups were cannibalizing naledi which was driving them to hide individuals in these cave systems?

[@TherealRTZ973]

It's kind of amazing how they just forget about all of north and south america.

[@chuckkimber2773]

Implied in their use of these dark depths of the cave system is an ability to harness fire to get there?

[@simonxag]

There's problems with fire in such a confined space.

[@chuckkimber2773]

@@simonxag There certainly is. I wonder if it's more problem than being in such a dark confined space without it?

[@simonxag]

@@chuckkimber2773 Given the struggles of the archeologists you've got to be impressed by the efforts of the Naledis. Unless they were dragged there as cat's dinners :-)

[@chuckkimber2773]

@Simon I'm indeed very impressed by the archaeologists Prof Hawks gave no indications they appeared to be prey deposits or debatage. He did indicate that Naledi was "very familiar" with the cave, so I've gone along with him. I would be equally impressed, and frightened, with any predator that lived that deep in a cave and was dragging prey that far into it.

[@dmybeloved]

interesting

[@stuartcalow737]

How about night sanctuary,like some baboons in caves?

[@donna4843]

Maybe you discovered a Naledi day care center for their children?

[@ugmusiqtv6846]

They are proving the sumerian text right.

[@spatrk6634]

what sumerian text? if you are reffering to zachariah hitchin, that dude is selfthought and either an complete idiot or he intentionaly wrongly translates the text and wrongly interprets the culture because he is a fraud

[@shelleysolomon2228]

Were they caves a million years ago???

[@spatrk6634]

millions years ago? probably not but bones are not that old so it was a cave when they were alive. what i think is that they disposed of their dead in deep cave while living somewhere nearby like at mouth of the cave anyway its mystery because its pitch black in there and no evidence that they used any torches

[@michaelmallal9101]

I love the Middle Stone Age.

[@briandenley]

Did they consider that such a large number of fossils might be due to some predator of hominids that may have had no problem negotiating the cave system? This seems more likely than a burial ritual.

[@garywalker447]

Given the very difficult path for getting into the areas of the cave that contained the bodies, it is doubtful that a predator would drag the bodies in that far and there have not been any signs of bite marks on the bones.

[@istvansipos9940]

but did they live in those caves? that would explain a lot. outcompeted, but surviving somehow because they found shelter down there and homo sapiens didn't care enough to chase them. then, of course, they were not always lucky / fast enough, and their genetic diversity bacame worse and worse with ever increasing inbreeding. maybe then we can have this period of coexistence? a long loooong extincion process?

[@legalvampire8136]

But they would have had to go out on the surface to find food

[@istvansipos9940]

​@@legalvampire8136 obviously. so they did. their underground shelter was still a good choice, a huge plus for all the time they did spend searching for food. the little fellas were not a huge problem, so our ancestors did not organize all-tribal hunts down into those unknown caves. but they took the chance to eliminate some cave fellas whenever they ran into them on the surface. Just a thought

[@legalvampire8136]

@@istvansipos9940 may be so. I hope our ancestors did not eat them

[@richardwalton6993]

Paleo-anthro Mumbo Jumbo at its finest: On several accounts the available evidence actually leaves Mr Hawk’s conclusions painted into a corner - where the entire thesis of the lost world of Middle Stone Age hominids presents an emphatic (though ambivalently assembled) non sequitur. The genus is incorrect.

[@IIrandhandleII]

How so?

[@richardwalton6993]

adfasd If the fossils were dumped down the chute into the Dinaledi chamber as claimed, you would expect the largest percentage of fossils to be concentrated near the base of the chute. But the remains indicate a more or less even distribution across the floor of the chamber. It’s also been claimed that carnivores didn't access the chamber, on the rationale that none of their remains have been found in the chamber. This, of course, only further decreases the believability of the leading hypothesis, especially since the chamber has only been partially excavated. Thirdly, the remains are fragmentary, however, if they were placed down the chute in a type of ritual -supposedly reinforcing an awareness of their “separation from nature" - why are there no cut marks on the remains? Fourthly, even though Mr Berger has the hasty genus designation ("Homo") practically written into stone, these unsupportable taphonomic assumptions are largely relied on to support the genus designation. Finally, the assigned time signature for the Dinaledi fossils is claimed to be between 336,000 and 414,000 years ago. But this date was apparently arrived at requiring geological evidence from an entirely separate chamber (the "Lesedi chamber") in the cave system. Furthermore, this is a date determined by flowstone samples, although at the same time (appearing almost like a disclaimer) the caves are said to be no older than 3 million years. Flowstone forms only where there is precipitated water, and this means that fossils in the region could sit on a cave floor for huge lengths of time virtually unaffected by such precipitation. For readers unfamiliar with paleoanthropological history and some of its vital details, the time signature given to these fossils runs vividly against the morphological evidence shown in this assemblage, as the Dinaledi morphology clearly relates to well known fossils from the same region of the Transvaal - fossils known to be close to 3 million years old. Certainly, their are some differences in the Dinaledi morphology, but these differences don’t really warrant the genus title, especially where it could easily be shown that equal or greater differences can be observed amongst later fossils of various species assigned to Homo, for instance.

[@lnbjr7]

Obviously these beings had harnessed fire so that they could exist in the cave... surprised nothing was mentioned of that.

[@usis5032]

The caves have shifted since then to my understanding

[@petergregory8864]

How cruel Evolution. Co-existing with the early Modern Humans, they were superceded and did not know it. Out competed into extinction. It's a cruel world.

[@NoName-oj5pl]

lol "they are doing fine" don't you mean "they did fine while they lasted"

[@raulcavazos7780]

Ended up being a burial site

[@thaddsreal]

Aim for some black faces next time. It's their Continent and their honors you are helping yourselves to... All those research dollars and where is your African campus?

[@EdT.-xt6yv]

10:00

[@laszlonemet4425]

2:45..and putthemback!

[@Ck-zk3we]

It’s a hybrid

[@ericvulgate]

braided stream.

[@joseluisrangel3669]

jose luis Rangel BC5537

[@thomasjane4167]

Storytelling at its finest.

[@garywalker447]

Are you saying John Hawks is lying? Misrepresenting the facts?

[@thomasjane4167]

@@garywalker447 Without any true evidence, yes. Cherry picking data for the sake of advancing ones agenda is not science and "peer review" in this case is junk. Sorry.

[@garywalker447]

@@thomasjane4167 Sorry but as they have the fossils and you have denial, I will accept their assessment.

[@thomasjane4167]

@@garywalker447 Yeah, disarticulated bone fragments scattered over hillsides I'm sure would qualify as evidence for the unsuspecting idiot.

[@garywalker447]

@@thomasjane4167 Again you show off your ignorance.

[@vsstdtbs3705]

It could have been good, but after a minute of crap at the beginning, I couldn't watch it anymore.

[@lilypowell1123]

SO WERE DID THE GIANTS COME FROM ???AND WHAT ABOUT BIG FOOT ?? NOT POSSIBLE TO BE THAT OLD ..THERE WOULD BE NOTHING LEFT !! YOU LIE !! HEHEHE HAHAHA !!