Shipping Wars in Cartoons (And Why They Suck)

[@Cartoonshi]

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[@krewstudios3467]

Based

[@kaiyote7924]

as far as your korra relationships analysis i just want to say thank you. (want to preface that im gay) i never got into this show and i kind of hate the lgbtq rep because of how awful the interpersonal character relationships are. because i couldn't even IMAGINE a 4 person friend group not completely dissolving after what korra did. korra dated bolin, cheated right in front of him with a taken man as bolin is holding a bouquet, caused mako and asami to break up and then ended with asami? im sorry but if that happened in real life bolin would forever have a grudge toward his brother mako for being a dick and not respecting his relationship, asami would hate korra for ruining what was a good relationship for her (basically shes a homewrecker) and asami would never want to see mako again for being a cheating douchebag. if this were REAL LIFE melodrama korra would be exiled and forced to find a new friend group. if they really wanted to have this be realistic korra would have been shunned by asami, shunned by mako & bolin (mako & bolin would be ok because they're brothers but bolin would hold it over makos head forever), and asami would not want to see mako or korra again unless she had to. the show if it were realistic and these 4 were forced to interact after the drama would be awkwardly formal and cordial with a deep underlying dislike forc eachother, so much so that every character besides the brothers interactions would look like "being forced to do a group project with your ex who cheated on you and made your life shitty at that time". (it would feel like pushing two opposing magnets together as they desperately push away from eachother- but like in people)

[@simple-commentator-not-rea7345]

MLP tried shipping once, and it backfired SO badly, they never tried it again, and so every time the love interest character has to show up, you can just tell they have no bloody idea what to do with him

[@StevenJones851]

This is something

[@reallycoolman9942]

What is a liberal

[@PaperThinnGlennHall]

the way Marco confessed his crush to Jackie was pretty cool actually. he mentions how he doesn't know If he likes her for her looks or personality. but what he knows that she deserves someone who wants to get to know her and wants to be that guy. that hit home with me. it's too bad the show shat the bed so hard

[@A88mph]

The first half of Star Vs. was good. It all at least felt like it was flowing fairly naturally. But after the Battle for Mewnii movie, it all went off the rails. I can't help but think something happened mid development that might cause such a drastic shift.

[@AnimatedIdiotGuide]

@@A88mph The way they tried to hype up the Blood Moon into being something epic and having it turn out to be a total nothingburger fucked everything up. I won't waste too much time here but they tried to make it where Marco had been in love with Star from Day 1 when anyone with half a brain cell knew that wasn't the case. And frankly, Marco's character arc only works IF HE DOESN'T FALL FOR HER AT FIRST. HIs relationship with Jackie helped him grow and realize what we really wants, but if they did that they'd they have the "OMG THE BLOOD MOON REALLY IS FORCING THE RELATIONSHIP" crap. Lesson here: the Blood Moon was a mistake

[@ntfoperative9432]

@@AnimatedIdiotGuide yeah no, they never should have done that, it ruined every chance of Starco developing organically

[@henrydantignac4266]

​@@A88mph they changed like half of the writers, and the show went from a show wide arc to a seasonal arc, which didn't give the "villains" enough time to develop

[@SupremeMarioGamer]

I don't know why the 2010's were OBSESSED with love triangles & romantic subplots but it's absolutely killed the investment I had for a lot of cartoons in the decade. Fun Fact: the finales of Game of Thrones & Star VS aired the same day, so both adults AND kids got to be deprived of satisfying endings in 2019.

[@user-jl4gs7xi5u]

Weren’t they released on the same day? (then again I could be wrong) Edit: I was correct both finales released on the same day! (May 19th is the day for horrible series finales)

[@staringcorgi6475]

I remember when total drama did this in it’s third season it was poorly written

[@ArendAlphaEagle]

I don't recall love triangles in Milo Murphy's Law or DuckTales 2017. Those are from the 2010s too.

[@notaraven]

This is a common trope in every generation, sometimes only relegated in romcoms but it's always there. Most cartoons never had it as a main focus but you can see some hints of it.

[@instntpot]

@@ArendAlphaEagle he wasn't saying every show from the 2010s had love triangles, he said there were a lot that had them

[@handhelder823]

In my eyes, shipping isn’t cringe as long as it is done in moderation. It has the potential of hooking someone to a show and to absolutely ruin it. Sadly, the latter happens far too often.

[@julianmartinez4719]

When regular show and adventure time ended up ignoring shipping, the over all quality got better.

[@JeroenDoes]

Shipping should happen naturally as a side product of character interaction. The moment the creators made shipping an objective in of itself it has already failed.

[@handhelder823]

@@ThisIsAshley41 but isn’t romance directly playing into shipping?

[@kermitgotthesickkicks4265]

@@julianmartinez4719 indeed

[@imani7979]

@@ThisIsAshley41 yes thank you, implying that shipping = romantic storyline is simply in correct, i’d say the vast majority of ships in fandom have little to no genuine romantic storyline in relation to the actual show, story, book, etc. it’s really up to the fans imagination. that’s not to say that all ships have no romantic storyline to them, canon relationships do tend to be quite popular ships in fandom, it’s just that shipping a non-canon ship is more about what could’ve been. or maybe it’s just about seeing what it would be like if two characters got together (even if they only had like 2 seconds of scene time together). i personally don’t really go out of my way to consume fancontent about canon relationships in any of the series i’m interested in, the exception probably being asheiji (depending on who you ask anyway).

[@bxmluv]

I remember shipping starco in 3rd and hated Jackie with a burning passion but watching the show again, her and Marco would’ve been way better together and so would Tomstar. The two ships could’ve been great if the writers actually cared. And if Starco was gonna happen why did they keep dragging the ship to the very end it was a waste of everyone’s time. Edit: And don’t even get me started on Kellco

[@ArendAlphaEagle]

I was always more into Jarco than Starco. It was the first ship truly shown in Star vs, and that, alongside Star's crush on Oskar, made me realize it's a breath of fresh air that the main characters were NOT being paired together at all... until Blood Moon Ball ruined that idea, that is. Turns out that breath of fresh air was in Milo Murphy's Law instead, in which Milo actually gets to start a romance with his crush Amanda, and NOT his best friend Melissa, and I LOVE IT. But I digress. Regardless of Blood Moon Ball, Jackie Lynn Thomas still remained one of the coolest characters, and her relationship with Marco actually WORKS. Really, it's baffling that the show writers didn't _just_ break up Marco and Jackie in Season 3, but went the extra mile and just _wrote her out of the show almost entirely,_ with the exception of two Season 4 episodes, in which she is now with this Chloe girl who appeared absolutely out of NOWHERE. Really, even if they HAD to break up, I think writing Jackie out of the show was uncalled for. Why not let her travel to Mewni from time to time too? Janna does it, why not Jackie? ...then again, with how poor the writing went in the later seasons, Jackie may have dodged a bullet... although, Tom became one of the best characters since Season 3, so uh...

[@bretginn1419]

@@ArendAlphaEagle Honestly, I was amazed with Tom's turn around. I only watched Star vs after it ended, so I heard a lot of praise for Tom. But my exposure to him in the first two seasons weren't great, and made me wonder why he was so popular. Then Season 3 came along and he actually showed growth, amd stayed likable till the end. Heck, I think he's the only character I ended up feeling entirely positive towards once I reached the end.

[@rodrigofigueiredo8597]

Nah TomStar sucks because Star is an actual god damn terrible girlfriend. She outoxiced the character trope of toxic ex, thats how bad their season 3 relationship was

[@partygamingz3332]

@@rodrigofigueiredo8597 true, if she had developed rather than being an asshole whole chooses when she wants to be responsible or not and be a hypocrite (aka not suffer the writing of the later seasons) that ship could have worked. But as it is despite seeing it as a better option for them to be together compared to starco cuz the writing issues, star did a 180 and became the toxic one in the relationship rather than Tom who tried his damn hardest to change for himself and her. also pissed me off more that after Tom broke up with star and gave Marco the heads up, i honestly started to feel bad, like he knew he can't save a relationship with star obviously liking Marco and how she acts. And wouldn't cha know it, a day or 2 later when she was SUPPOSE to save her injured citizens, she goes out to kiss and confess with Marco while completely forgetting about leaving Tom in the magic dimension The more I look into it the more she seems like a selfish psychopath rather than a teen that does dumb things

[@trixxart777]

Like they should have just gotten together in season 3 or had Star and Marco get together in season 2 and maybe have Marco relise that Jackie wasn't as good as he thought soo. Or even just keep Jackie and Marco and Tom and Star because they where actually pretty good relationships. Even Kelly and Marco could have been interesting as they support each other throughout there feelings.

[@dumbsville]

Shipping wars? CRINGE!!! 🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮 War crimes? Real shit 🔥🔥💯💯💯

[@InsanityContainmentz]

Shhh don’t talk about war crimes, I’m already being investigated for enough shit.

[@marcossandrosilva6979]

This is a certified serbian momment

[@flamestoyershadowkill]

Nuclear Holocaust: Best shit

[@shenpieee]

fr

[@aisushitai2680]

this was the comment I clicked on the video for.

[@genericartist3553]

Viewer : Wow this show is really neat! Forced romance, ship pandering and love triangles : Allow us to introduce ourselves

[@flamestoyershadowkill]

If not that Power scalers, retarded edge, plot armor, and forced deaths: I am inevitable.

[@KanameKuransnumberonefan]

The sad thing is that love triangles(and most concepts like it) can be and have been done really well. But it's usually done so poorly that the "drama" you're supposed to be interested and invested in is just an chore that becomes a boring, infuriating mess that isn't fun to navigate.

[@julianmartinez4719]

@@KanameKuransnumberonefan danny phantom is the best example of how not to do it. It was worse since the show never developt as to why sam fell for danny and Danny for sam. While seeing the show, i never liked their romance, now that i'm older and developt as a person i came to learn to despise it with passion, and i'm unable to understand why is so popular.

[@DDarkestKnight]

@@KanameKuransnumberonefan What is your version of a love triangle done well? They're dramatic by nature

[@genericartist3553]

@@KanameKuransnumberonefan That’s true, Ninjago’s an example (Jya and Coya an example of an annoying love triangle)

[@dominothealphaandomega5512]

Imagine if Aang started the series dating Katara, and in season 2 started dating Toph out of no where, and in the Final Minute of Sozins Comet decided to Kiss Sokka, and every Avatar comic afterwards was focused on explaining why them Dating is a good thing That’s the Best I could explain The romance in Korra

[@MegaDarkness5000]

Oh boi Korra was a crap storm when it comes to romance.

[@PancakemonsterFO4]

Nah, Suko. And then they take down Osai with the power of love

[@dominothealphaandomega5512]

@@PancakemonsterFO4 Now that would be Star VS level of Bad

[@BuggingonBeeroids]

Korra is hugely overrated, I like the artstyle but the world building is whack and Korra is a horrible, entitled and frankly unlikeable character. Her being bi just seems like quite literal fanservice

[@imani7979]

@@BuggingonBeeroids i mean she DOES get much better in seasons 3 & 4, unfortunately season 2 was so god awfully written most people still have that image of season 1 & 2 korra and can’t see how much she developed in the later seasons (also the villains in s3&4 are sooo much better).

[@Raph___A]

I actually never knew what it meant to ship characters until Starco became a thing and don't get me wrong, I really wanted them to become a thing and while I always knew they would end up together, the ending of SvsE was hands down one of the worst I have ever had the displeasure of seeing in my entire life. Doesn't ruin my overall love for the show, but I see no excuse as to why it couldn't have been handled better.

[@aayy9540]

They would've been better off as friends like partners in crime

[@rylanpilled]

@@aayy9540 true tho starco felt forced

[@catscanhavelittleasalami]

Starco as close friends would have worked so much better.

[@Kat-zh4ly]

Me and my sister were just talking about this the other day, I believe iirc they were being cancelled after their last season so they had to rush the whole plot yet somehow managed to put in so much filer because of trying to fit in romance and other story lines. If they had been given at least one more season they *might* have been able to flesh out the transition to Starco better AND focus on the whole Earth/Mewni thing plus some. Personally overall many ships are good or had the potential to be good in the show, but the ending definitely feels cheap and unexplained. 😕

[@sokunthyvong4695]

Well as their friendship was developed I also think they're ship suddenly was there 🤨

[@squill9446]

You hit the nail right on the head with Frost and Fire. Having Finn screw up his relationship with Flame Princess is a good idea in theory and it sets up some great development for him later down the line but they took it way too extreme. Also didn’t help that Finn and FP’s relationship was so underdeveloped. A lot of it happens off screen so when Finn messes it up it feels like it ended too quickly

[@ArendAlphaEagle]

I think Frost and Fire was among the last couple episodes before I stopped watching Adventure Time. I kind of gradually lost interest when it turned out this season was _double the length_ of previous seasons and was only at the halfway point

[@squill9446]

@@ArendAlphaEagle I highly recommend you keep watching. Seasons 5 and 6 are rocky but have some good stuff in them, and 7-10 are genuinely great and possibly better than the first 4 seasons

[@amberrichards2778]

@@ArendAlphaEagle I encourage you to pick it back up, Adventure Time is a masterpiece

[@aclaymushroomwithaberet7084]

agreed

[@mrdoggo3569]

@@squill9446 its not difficult to be better than the first two or even 3 seasons considering they re not really very well regarded.

[@cecethebbc]

Mordecai always didn't know what he wanted. As a kid I thought he was like 16 but now I searched it and realised he's 23.

[@DDarkestKnight]

Man he made 23 look good

[@MechanizedAngelz]

​@TheGlassesPro, I remember viewing Rigby as immature, and Mordecai as the cooler & more mature one but, as the show went on the two completely swapped, and it really shocked me.

[@Saltedroastedcaramel]

He said he and Rigby were 23 from the first episode

[@captaincommando5072]

​@@DDarkestKnight I'm not gonna judge

[@jissmol8738]

no WAY he's a grown adult he always acts like he's 15

[@SNK_LRD]

The last thing you want in a relationship is for the reception to go from “They deserve each other 🥰” to “They deserve each other 😒”

[@error-try-again-later]

This was basically my reaction when Ben 10 started dating Kai lmao 💀

[@BioMega96]

@@error-try-again-later ugh don't remind me of that, hated that aspect of the later seasons of OV, that and the whole spanner thing. not helping is the whole petty arguments between them and the writers try pass it as "they like each other" hate that trope (if it even is one)

[@dylanrivera2244]

Shipping isn’t a bad thing but it’s incredible how out of control things can get.

[@mr.foxasmg]

Remember to steer it carefully or else it might sink or crash

[@blackdrag0nfish]

It's scary how people can take shipping so seriously, the 'My Hero Acadamia' fandom is an absolute nightmare because of shipping

[@Hekskskdkdkskbjsjh]

@@blackdrag0nfish fr I’m not in the fandom I’m a enjoyer of the plot not a fan I can’t be a fan I’m not entering that hell scape

[@nickthepick8043]

Tell that to RoosterTeeth.

[@Twinklethefox9022]

This is why I don't like fan driven ships since they basically ruin it.

[@metal6948]

"Had turned into a mushy teen melodrama consisting of the writers smashing their toys together until the debris created something resembling a story hook" is such a perfect line

[@NekoBoyOfficial]

I'm surprised you didn't mention Voltron: Legendary Defenders. That fandom was a nightmare.

[@YanoLBP]

Dear God that fanbase was a godforsaken trainwreck from Hell.

[@deen7530]

I once heard it said that everything that fanbase touched turned to ash.

[@seachelle2316]

that problem would have been too easy tho lol, almost low- hanging fruit at that point

[@smcphee8499]

He about shipping in show not the fandom itself

[@KariIzumi1]

While VLD was a Category 7 nuclear disaster of a fandom, the ships within the canon itself took up very little real estate. If anything, Allura/Lance was not set up nearly as much for anyone to really root for it, even if one wasn’t a delusional Klance fan who believed the sun revolved around that ship. The less said about Shiro, the better but suffice it to say everyone on the show’s staff was way too terminally online with this fan base. No one deserved death threats but the constant interaction w this horrid fandom made things a lot worse.

[@ChocolateLoveKitten]

The thing that will forever tick me off when Asami confronted Mako about the kiss was that she only got mad at him for it. That type of heat was never once directed at Korra. Since she was the one who started it by kissing him first. Mako was in the wrong for kissing back and/or not pulling away the moment Korra kissed him. And Korra being in the wrong for initiating the kiss in the first place. Knowing full well he was already with Asami. Realistically, Asami should've been upset on both sides. But the writers made it out to seem that it was only Mako's fault for that happening.

[@Dave102693]

The writes hated Mako, and so does the fans. Lol

[@DeathKitta]

That's just so typical for some reason. The partner 'cheats' and all the anger goes at them even if they were not initiating anything and the other person knew about their relatioship.

[@muddashucka9743]

Mako was (or may have been) too surprised by the kiss to (actively) resist it at the time. Don't put the blame on him. Blame Korra.

[@ryancarson6962]

Honestly I don't think it's truly fair to blame Mako for not pulling back. Some people are more passive than others and might not be able to immediately assert themselves in situations like this. Plus I think that blaming him in this specific instance is problematic since contextually, Korra *forced herself onto him,* saying that "its their fault for not moving away" when the person in question never consented to that encounter feels like victim blaming to me.

[@Dookieman1975]

I get they wanted the teen romance to be volition (at least that’s what I heard) but they could’ve handled the confrontation and improving personality in terms of dating parts better. But then again Nickelodeon was fckin with the team working on the LoK

[@whyh6876]

Rule of thumb, if ya reverse the genders and you think it's super creepy... dont, dont do it. Lol Imagine a male Korra saying "When youre with him youre thinking about me" to a female Mako on top of that dating her sister lol

[@marlom7882]

Sweet shit when you actually explain that scene in its entirety it really sounds fucked up goddamn…

[@georgethompson1460]

Ah a fello E;R enjoyer, I salute thee my brother.

[@3HorsemenOfMovingPictures]

@@georgethompson1460 same here!🙋🏽‍♀️

[@atanaZion]

actually doesn't that bad either

[@georgeprchal3924]

Imagine if Legally Blonde had a male protagonist who moved across the country to his ex's new school to try and win her back from her fiance?

[@Rosemont104]

Romance? What romance? It's always two angsty parties passive-aggressively deciding not to date until they do at the very end of a show.

[@cagedcreature439]

Exactly. You just summed up the main problem with the “romance” in some of these shows.

[@myeeeeeh]

And if they do date in in the middle of the show, they'll break up at some point over something that could have been solved in 5 minutes if they just talked to each other.

[@MrAuthor3DS]

@@myeeeeeh Looking at you, SAGE.

[@Cosmicfallsr]

I always hated the way Starco was handled and just the ship in general. Trying to have the two main characters have romantic drama ends up being the most awkward thing ever. I remember being told to end myself because I didnt ship Starco 💀 the Star vs fanbase was probably the most toxic and disgusting fandom Ive ever taken part in.

[@hirahiro2331]

It was full of young girls/boys who didn’t really understand that if they actually got up and made an effort to find a partner instead of inserting themselves as said character, they’d be pretty good. But alas, they were too obsess and lonely.

[@rennn6698]

Fr. They should have stayed friends

[@ChocolateLoveKitten]

@@rennn6698 I was HOPING for them to stay friends after the first several episodes of Season 1. But nope! Couldn't even have that.

[@catscanhavelittleasalami]

I loved the first season because it was fun and refreshing to see two main characters of opposite gender being close without any romantic feelings in the way. One reason why so many people don't believe in man/woman platonic friendship is that you rarely find that kind of chemistry in media, especially stuff aimed at children.

[@MechanizedAngelz]

I shipped it a bit but, gradually started to really ship it... in the end, I walked out disgusted by it, and wanting to smite Star & Marco for treating all their other partners like dirt. _Watching Kelly deal with her issues of bad relationships only for Marco to immediately break up with her, Tom breaking things up himself because he could tell he was just a "placeholder" for Marco, Tom not believing that Marco kissed Star until Marco says that he really did which is sad because he came back to defend Marco & still did after the confirmation, etc._ it was honestly pretty heartbreaking. The closer the end drew the more I feared they would be confirmed, and the more I knew it'd be true but, that didn't stop me from feeling the embarrassment, and cringe throughout the whole thing, goodness there's no way I'll ever forget the cereal conversation, the live performance singing about how much Star loves Marco, the photo booth, and many more, I wish I could.

[@gmaskdrawz]

Honestly, even as an 8 year old I always get second hand cringe simply from watching Mordecai's relationship status go so high for one moment and then crash and burn litterally the next episode.

[@B3N_Youtube]

Fucking same man.

[@Cosmologyelle]

Honestly ..

[@captainamedeus7047]

That’s the only major thing I didn’t like about Regular Show

[@gmaskdrawz]

@@Cosmologyelle Yeah because that was the only thing I hated about Reguoar Show.

[@protostnl6369]

Yeah, I remember getting genuinely annoyed at that crap.

[@PrezNev]

It hurts my soul that a show like Star Vs went down the way it did. Especially when it had a great villan like Toffee and the solid character development that Ludo and even Tom had to a degree. It sucks that the writters ended up slacking off the last two seasons instead of actually giving a damn to finish what could have been a great show.

[@n0ttomuch65]

Later seasons were only worth watching for Eclipsa's development

[@Mario87456]

It also doesn’t help that the creator of the show rudely dismissed any criticism of the finale in a Reddit AMA by saying that she was HAPPY with the ending and those who hated the ending for feeling it was rushed were merely “unhappy” that it was ending which just shows how she cannot take any criticism whatsoever.

[@mr.iiconic]

I don't hate S3 and S4. I'm of the belief that even at its worst the show would still watchable, but it was never too amazing in the first place

[@jessoliveiro8975]

And Disney getting flack for "SvtfoE was suppose to have an extra season but got cancelled!" rumours going around, like regardless if Disney cut Star short or not, what was the show's excuse for having SO MUCH filter going on? I hate that Disney went out and cut TOH short (for not "fitting the brand", like WHAT), but Star, if the rumours were true, DID NOT deserve another season, they'd just add more mind-numbing nonsense (did we REALLY need a whole episode of Janna and Tom goofing around with A BOOT?) instead of using the time to really dive into depth with the lore and characters, a waste to a show that had so much potential.

[@LeremyNewtron]

“The subtlety of screaming bomb in a public space” easily my new favourite quote.

[@PhoebeTheFairy56]

As an aromantic person, the obsession with romance and treating it like a superior form or relationship that happens in media and sometimes fandoms is annoying and exhausting. Some stories just do not need romance, and can even be made worse by forcing it

[@marlom7882]

Aromantic person? Well aren’t you lucky

[@catscanhavelittleasalami]

I agree

[@ratatoing4800]

im not aromantic myself but i strongly agree with what you said- some movies also add unnecessary romance- it completely ruins the whole story for me

[@mysteryhatter]

X2 I'm not aro but I 100% agree with you, romance is so overused and some stories shouldn't or don't need to have it

[@Theoss-sl1fk]

I like romance the most if it serves as a sub-plot. Giving the characters enough moments and I will accept it. But literally forcing it (let it ruin the storyline and create confusions) and writing it like a first-sight love Disney romance is a no for me.

[@redpanda7914]

They had so many ways to make starco official without ruining it

[@multifandomfangirl9664]

Agreed

[@roo1014]

Jarco was always the show's best ship

[@multifandomfangirl9664]

@Shatho Ntabeni I prefer Jarco more but I feel Starco could have worked if the writers weren't so focused on their bias and actually built up the relationship Kellco ngl was robbed though

[@arielruh7773]

@@roo1014 to be honest, youre right

[@ArendAlphaEagle]

@@roo1014 omg same

[@grizzakaful]

Shipping isn't honestly a bad thing, if done right and not just because fans want it. I only find it irksome if the connection to characters is often based off one small thing and not because they built up the relationship through the series. Overall, I don't mind if ships happens, but the writers do need to learn how to do it in a more natural and engaging way.

[@WubbaizyShipper1]

Wubbzy x Daizy for life.

[@definitelynotapervert5602]

Alfur x Adeline rep

[@WubbaizyShipper1]

@@definitelynotapervert5602 I didn't know Hilda ships even existed.... But they definitely fit together tho. Does David x Frida exist?

[@lonelyfanboy4833]

What you describe Finn’s character makes a lot sense. Even if I agree what he did is sadistic, doesn’t automatically mean I’m completely against his character since it was out of character for him to do.

[@typicalghost6930]

I think it’s a good lesson on how not to be toxic

[@felixdaniels37]

@@typicalghost6930 But why not build up a new character that was ALREADY toxic to teach that?

[@baboin1851]

@@felixdaniels37 mmm. Finn hasn't learned that lesson, Finn is a kid, a kid who doesn't always have the best moral paragon, he's still a kid.

[@felixdaniels37]

@@baboin1851 But that's not a lesson Finn even needs to learn, because it's not even believable that he'd DO something like that to begin with. It's not about being moral, it's about consistency.

[@CreationsFlare]

@@felixdaniels37 To be fair, that kind of happened? Jake's wise but he constantly gets gassed up with affirmation, Tiffany's a rare sight but would be what Finn could have been at his worse, and his first crush of the show Bubblegum had ALOT under the hood. Finn has that toxicity all around him, and it's what led him with his spiral down with Flame Princess. It's just, it never went to Tier 15-

[@nestorcsamacho6328]

That 8 seconds of intro are the most accurate representation of what I feel whenever the ending of Svtfoe comes up.

[@duckysguidetoshipping8930]

Honestly I am a huge starco shipper but the way they handled it in the show was absolutely horrible wish they could’ve done it much better like Lumity has

[@arielruh7773]

I stopped watching because of it

[@Watersiteplay]

I'm not really a huge Starco shipper and think they should've staid friends BUT I can see how it could've worked really well yet they handled it abysmal

[@Barakon]

Your pfp reminds me of my time in the shipping wars & I find it funny.

[@the_impossible_gamer]

It was bad only because it was forced for the 4 season limit rule, and they forced them two to declare their love too early... And i really hate this... There had to be a season 5 and we deserve a season 5! They have to do it. I will never forgive Disney for what they have done...

[@ArendAlphaEagle]

@@the_impossible_gamer ...Didn't Daron Nefcy say that she _knew_ beforehand that they were gonna get no more than four seasons?

[@melbiamil5144]

Horror as a genre doesn't fucking compare to how scary it is to write romance. A good romance subplot can make something average feel great and wholesome, while a mediocre romance can make any great show unbearable.

[@maas1208]

Some things don't need shipping at all, like FNAF. Why would you have shipping in a series that includes dead kids, broken adults, and Animatronics that are powered by souls or agony, and Honestly to me the only instances where shipping make sense is with William Afton and his wife [also something like Evan and Cassidy, I only really see them as friends and to me Evan x Cassidy would only really work properly is if it's in an AU where both of them never died (and if there's no NSFW of them) and same can be applied to the other kids, y'know?] or His Son, Mike [the nightguard from FNAF 1-6] and Mary [the Nightguard from a FNAF fan game called Five Nights at Candy's (FNAC)]. Other than those examples I don't really see a need for ships in FNAF

[@rurihime4965]

There is romance that is so bad it becomes a psychological thriller

[@kingbash6466]

As much as I joke about them, I don't hate ships in of themselves. Lord knows I've shipped a few characters myself. However, when you're a fan of series like Sonic, RWBY, and Genshin, you tend to get annoyed and sometimes scared with how seriously people take their ships.

[@richardgonzalez4633]

Yep

[@dylansmith5206]

Unless you're someone like me. Who has only two ships they like- Katara X Aang From Avatar And Izuku Midoriya From Boku No Hero Academia X Yang Xiao Long From RWBY Since for me. Both ships make sense. Are super adorable/wholesome. And are fun to watch. And really doesn't care about shipping at all. But hey. What do I know?

[@sonloto]

Virgin obsessive shipper vs Chad Average Plot/Character Development Enjoyer

[@georgethompson1460]

@@dylansmith5206 When I was a kid I thought Katara was too old for Aang, must have been the height difference or something. Always thought she was more sisterly.

[@castform7]

Ah, the "good" ol' days of Sonamy. The time where I learned that yes, people can be super engrossed in a fictional romance between anthro rodents. Thankfully, I feel like things have toned down even in the actual series to where Amy's less "Sonic crazed fangirl who can track him like a bloodhound" and more "Sonic's loyal friend who has a massive crush she can subdue (especially in IDW)". Then again, I haven't really kept tabs on Sonamy so maybe they still feel personally attacked by a teenage chipmunk.

[@happycamperds9917]

If you think about it, a ship is basically just a fan theory. And just like fan theories , they aren't inherently bad, but can become a problem if the creator has to appeal to them too much.

[@ThanosDestroyeryearsago]

Not has to. They decide to appeal to them. No one is forcing them.

[@maas1208]

​​​​​​@@theautumnwind8437 Some things don't need shipping at all, like FNAF. Why would you have shipping in a series that includes dead kids, broken adults, and Animatronics that are powered by souls or agony, and Honestly to me the only instances where shipping make sense is with William Afton and his wife [also something like Evan and Cassidy, I only really see them as friends and to me Evan x Cassidy would only really work properly is if it's in an AU where both of them never died (and if there's no NSFW of them) and same can be applied to the other kids, y'know?] or His Son, Mike [the nightguard from FNAF 1-3] and Mary [the Nightguard from a FNAF fan game called Five Nights at Candy's (FNAC)]. Other than those examples I don't really see a need for ships in FNAF. Also People need to respect each other's headcanons as long those headcanons don't Include disgusting things (Like R@pe, P3DOPHILIA, Z00PHILIA, etc...)

[@maas1208]

But Hey that's just a theory... A GAME THEORY

[@AlexDayz]

I’ve never watched Ladybug but the love square seems like it’s insanely convoluted. How have neither of them figured out Marionette is Ladybug and Adrian is Cat Noir especially with how much they interact? Even in Invincible (great show, definitely recommend) William figured out pretty easily that it was Mark behind the mask and so does Amber (though that comes with it own set of problems).

[@ArendAlphaEagle]

The crazy part, if I remember this correctly, is that Marinette's best friend (Ayla) and Adrien's best friend (Nino) not only BOTH know each other's secret identity (Rena Rouge and Carapace, respectively), but have _also_ been dating each other. _Marinette and Adrien could've been that as well!_

[@eatatjoe]

The crazy part is that the show is more famous for the Olympic love whatchamacallit and how completely stupid Hawk/Shadow/Moth is as a villain/the pushover Adrian is/the serial killer Marinette is - all barely constrained by what can only be described as a Saturday Morning cartoon framing device. I hope to reach that level of infamy when I write.

[@cartoonfangirl_1136]

The whole love triangle is basically the main reason to why the show is still going the plot and the story are a complete medd at this point i just watch people's thoughts on the show instead

[@maas1208]

​​​@@ArendAlphaEagle Some things don't need shipping at all, like FNAF. Why would you have shipping in a series that includes dead kids, broken adults, and Animatronics that are powered by souls or agony, and Honestly to me the only instances where shipping make sense is with William Afton and his wife [also something like Evan and Cassidy, I only really see them as friends and to me Evan x Cassidy would only really work properly is if it's in an AU where both of them never died (and if there's no NSFW of them) and same can be applied to the other kids, y'know?] or His Son, Mike [the nightguard from FNAF 1-3] and Mary [the Nightguard from a FNAF fan game called Five Nights at Candy's (FNAC)]. Other than those examples I don't really see a need for ships in FNAF

[@maas1208]

​@@eatatjoe Bro William Afton [FNAF] feels like a better villian than Hawkmoth at times

[@9-VoltGaming]

Rigby and Eileen is one of the best couples I've seen in modern cartoons and I hate so much how little episodes Regular Show dedicates for these two and how many many many it dedicates to Mordecai shipping stuff, why is the best couple the background couple???? They are insanely cute I just wanted to see more of them! I never saw a single person that thinks Rigby and Eileen are bad, most regular show fans love these two together, it may not have much drama or commedy but man... they are too cute man I just can't stop loving whenever they do something cute on screen

[@ksmart1235]

Me too and I agree

[@myeeeeeh]

Muscle Man and Starla were good too. They genuinely loved and cared about each other.

[@error-try-again-later]

​@@myeeeeeh Muscle Man and Starla are one of those couples that just work.

[@adventuresteamstudios242]

Honestly relationships/romance in the western media should just do the Fire Emblem type approach of character relationship building. C Rank: First Interaction B Rank: Getting to know each other A Rank: The bonds of the two characters have gotten stronger S Rank: They fall in love and gets married

[@A88mph]

Fair enough. If you can't do romantic drama well, but still want lovers in your story, then you can at least build up to them tying the knot in a timely manner and NOT drag it out... at all!

[@mr.iiconic]

If by Fire Emblem approach, you just mean real life

[@subjectverbargument9871]

My brother in Christ FE forces almost every possible couple into a shotgun marriage after only three conversations with each other (or if you're Chrom, one is enough)

[@soyjoyy]

Aka the most boring thing ever. There needs to be conflict, something to hook the viewer, otherwise the romance is as bland as a piece of white bread dipped in water.

[@l.n.3372]

Except that some C-A conversations are superficial in some games lol. Makes it hard to understand why they can S rank

[@BugVlogs]

The difference between how badly Starco was handled versus how excellently Lumity was handled is so vast that it’s honestly kinda funny

[@ArendAlphaEagle]

Please, _Milanda_ fucking TROUNCES Starco as well. Milo and Amanda's relationship may not have gotten as much focus as Luz and Amity's, but it's still MILES AND MILES better than Star and Marco's. Heck, _JARCO_ trounces Starco when you think about it. Marco should've stayed with Jackie, IMO.

[@Commenter839]

​@@ArendAlphaEagle It's funny, I can pick just about any ship on Disney Channel (minus Miraculous Ladybug) and it probably will have been done better than Starco. Freaking Kellco and Tomstar were done better than Starco. Tomco was even done better and they were never even canon.

[@flarflecakes]

@@Commenter839 if tomco was canon that would've singlehandedly been the best lgbtq rep at the time

[@andiman44]

@@ThisIsAshley41 I feel you on this . Lumity is pretty good but the development could’ve been better.

[@PancakemonsterFO4]

@@flarflecakes more like Troll repressentation amiright?

[@Sammytheflaaffyfan]

Dude, your section on Regular Show was so accurate to how I also felt about it. Legit, when me and my sister binged the entire series back to back, we would skip every episode that had to do with that stupid love triangle because of those exact points you said. And having to watch that one scene at Muscle Man's wedding was just... Ugh.... I'm so glad we weren't the only ones that felt that way...

[@acceptable1609]

Me and my brother are rewatching Regular Show currently and we feel the same way about the love triangle. My brother told me he gets second hand embarrassment watching that scene from the wedding episode and I don’t blame him.

[@hwtvi3466]

You explained *exactly* why I don’t like the ship Korrasami. I’m so tired of people being called homophobic whenever they call out a gay ship for being poorly written. I have absolutely no problem with a gay ship, as long as it’s written well. For example, Luz and Amity. Sure, it was pretty rushed at the start, but it found its footing, and is much better now. Korra and Asami, on the other hand, felt forced and kinda just came out of nowhere, not to mention the other problems you mentioned. And I’m sorry, but representation doesn’t mean much when the relationship itself isn’t good. Problematic is still problematic. As much as I might piss some people off by saying this, I’ll take a straight ship that’s healthy over a gay ship that’s toxic any day.

[@DakotaofRaptors]

Coming from second-hand experience, lesbian relationships can get hella toxic: the equivalent of a drunkard pounding away at his dead-inside and Stockholm Syndrome wife kinda toxic.

[@Twinklethefox9022]

First, I am so glad I wasn't the only one who thought it came out of nowhere. Like I was like "when where they a couple" but yet, it's another fan driven ship and those have a bad reputation for not being good or handled well. 2: if you think korrasami is bad, don't forget about catdora. That's way worse and more toxic.

[@Inky_doodledoo]

Me with catdora

[@goufr3540]

What is really sad for Ladybug is that her ship is basically the same as the one from Sailor Moon and its main characters. Yet, Ladybug took the idea of an already existing ship and toss it down an endless flight of stairs. Not much more to add there, as its probably the most glorious train wreck of a ship ever made and made from one of the absolute easiest shipping possibilities.

[@YujiUedaFan]

At least Sailor Moon characters got development and their powers got upgraded. The only huge downside Sailor Moon has is Chibi Moon because she is just the worst.

[@ArendAlphaEagle]

See, this is why ships like Milanda and Lumity just waltz over _these_ kinda ships: no love triangles, no stupid misunderstandings, NO SHIPPING DRAMA. Just pure character development and cute moments. By the by, I was always more of a Jarco shipper, it was the first ship really hinted at and that, combined with Star's crush on Oskar at the time, made me think Star vs would step away from the overdone "main character x main character" ships, which made me realize it's a breath of fresh air. How wrong I was about that (turns out Milo Murphy's Law had this breath of fresh air instead), but Jackie always remained based no matter what, so at least I got that win 😎

[@WDB2005]

What’s Milanda? I’m trying to remember is that Milo and Amanda from Milo Murphy’s law?

[@ArendAlphaEagle]

@@WDB2005 Yes. Yes it is.

[@brytilaar]

What about Pennashi? That works too.

[@maas1208]

​​@@ArendAlphaEagle Some things don't need shipping at all, like FNAF. Why would you have shipping in a series that includes dead kids, broken adults, and Animatronics that are powered by souls or agony, and Honestly to me the only instances where shipping make sense is with William Afton and his wife [also something like Evan and Cassidy, I only really see them as friends and to me Evan x Cassidy would only really work properly is if it's in an AU where both of them never died (and if there's no NSFW of them) and same can be applied to the other kids, y'know?] or His Son, Mike [the nightguard from FNAF 1-6] and Mary [the Nightguard from a FNAF fan game called Five Nights at Candy's (FNAC)]. Other than those examples I don't really see a need for ships in FNAF

[@maas1208]

​@@ArendAlphaEagle Kinda Unrelated but what do you think of Shipping in FNAF? You know the Hit Horror Game Series that has Animatronics possessed by the Souls of Dead Kids, A Purple man that killed said kids who also refuses to die, and has convoluted lore that made MatPat go insane?

[@vxxiii4160]

I've been on the internet since 2008 and the amount of fandoms that have gone down in flames because of shipping drama is concerning. These are fictional characters, never take shipping seriously or as the absolute most important thing a story can give (that absolutely goes for writers as well). Also NEVER ship real people, it's cringe.

[@ntfoperative9432]

Not to mention creepy. Remember the Septiplier craze. It almost destroyed Sean and Marks friendship

[@maas1208]

Honestly I'm glad that I left the shipping community since 1. It was toxic AF. 2. Some of the ships don't make any sense. 3. The Fanfics and Fanart are pretty bad especially the R34 ones💀. 4. Its basically a F**king warzone. 5. They treat Criticism of their pathetic ship like it's a F**king warcrime. Honestly I could write a F**king essay of how bad the shipping community is and Thank God I left that community. I'm never going back there ever again. And Some things don't need shipping at all, like FNAF. Why would you have shipping in a series that includes dead kids, broken adults, and Animatronics that are powered by souls or agony, and Honestly to me the only instances where shipping make sense is with William Afton and his wife [also something like Evan and Cassidy, I only really see them as friends and to me Evan x Cassidy would only really work properly is if it's in an AU where both of them never died (and if there's no NSFW of them), y'know?] or His Son, Mike [the nightguard from FNAF 1-3] and Mary [the Nightguard from a FNAF fan game called Five Nights at Candy's (FNAC)]. Other than those examples I don't really see a need for ships in FNAF

[@jimskywaker4345]

@@ntfoperative9432 excuse me the WHAT!?

[@ntfoperative9432]

@@jimskywaker4345 about a decade or so ago, someone I guess jokingly shipped Jacksepticeye and Markiplier. Then people started taking it way to seriously, to the point that both Sean and Mark were getting sent fan art. It got so bad that when Sean and Mark got the opportunity to meet up, they actually felt uncomfortable next to each other, and it almost destroyed their friendship, but luckily before that happened Septiplier left the public conscious

[@DakotaofRaptors]

It's the Lateralus guy

[@cordyceps7531]

I’m still bitter that Marco and Jackie didn’t stick. It felt more genuine.

[@0Magicallywild0]

Or Tomstar

[@ok.4720]

@@0Magicallywild0 Nah tom deserves better star was a terrible girlfriend

[@Robin280497]

@@ok.4720 He deserves Janna. No joke.

[@SukiNoKoe]

It really didn't. It was like Timmy and Trixie from Fairly Oddparents; awkward boy simping over cool girl is super dumb every time.

[@cordyceps7531]

@@SukiNoKoe Except Jackie wasn't a snobby bitch like Trixie and even when they weren't dating they're still able to casually hang out as friends, unlike Timmy and Trixie.

[@murmurcub]

I'm surprised you didn't talk about Total Drama. The romance there can get interesting and sometimes good, but then, you get to the elephant in the room, the trashiest and most exhausting character/relationship assassination because the network said so.

[@YujiUedaFan]

I'm surprised he didn't bring up the worst mlm ships ever: Shiro and his off-screen relationships.

[@franst3909]

Rip Trent. Cool based music dude that don't care about nothing turned to insecure cringe soy. 😔🙏

[@captaincommando5072]

​@Franst he went German (Get it? Nine? Nein? OK I'll see myself out

[@SpartanJoe193]

​@@YujiUedaFanMLM?

[@YujiUedaFan]

@@SpartanJoe193 Gay relationship basically.

[@cadis4257]

The episode that broke up Finn and Flame Princess will always hold a place of pure hate in my heart. I dropped the show after that.

[@YujiUedaFan]

It took until like season 7 for Finn to apologise too.

[@Numbuh900]

At least Finn managed to be on better terms with Flame Princess at the end, Mordecai and CJ's relationship is broken beyond repair

[@kingofcards9]

I never have or will understand why people are more obsessed over a potential fictional relationship than their own real life relationships.

[@matthewclark5612]

It's called living vicariously

[@sla_2023]

because real life relationships hurts more...

[@theoriginalman9426]

Probably because they have no actual interest in doing it themselves, but find it cute to see two pairings that they find to be fitting be on screen

[@yonderalt2662]

Because they don't have a real relationship, they want to fantasize themselves in a ship or see the ship they want in reality

[@sla_2023]

@@yonderalt2662 i prefer don't have a real relationship, it's so bad...

[@officerwalter8877]

Wait a minute this isn’t a video about naval conflict portrayed in animation

[@erikbihari3625]

So basically the 2000's rule? Yup, it's especially good when romance is in the picture!

[@BioMega96]

2000's rule? Elab on that?

[@zenithstudio6819]

We all know what happens to ships, *they get sunk by cannons*

[@maas1208]

LMFAO

[@ahmedaliyu1495]

Yep Pirates are Notorious

[@maas1208]

​@@ahmedaliyu1495 True

[@unofficial_computer]

I remember watching Adventure Time and Regular Show when I was a youngin and I can indeed confirm that the shipping was the most irritating for my child brain. I just wanted to see two-dimensional people on my tv screen blow shit up, not get into 47 separate love triangles.

[@Just_Cheffin31]

I agree. I am a rat for cartoons but I genuinely don’t like it when a plot is screwed over in favor of what fans want.

[@unofficial_computer]

@@Just_Cheffin31 Not even the fans wanted to tbh.

[@Hekskskdkdkskbjsjh]

@@Just_Cheffin31 fr I don’t mind romance when it makes sense dosent happen in the first 5 episodes of the series (if we take examples like owl house where we didn’t see the characters past or they had crushes before the series started it can happen ) and isn’t Brocken up immediately or at all

[@CDsCartoons]

Regular Show fan here. You're literally speaking my thoughts. The shipping was just super annoying and boring. It also made me dislike Mordecai too - all he did was "pull a Mordecai" by not being honest and just being a crappy person overall.

[@unofficial_computer]

@@CDsCartoons It started a whole shipping war.

[@dillongeorge5866]

Shout outs to the Owl House, the only recent cartoon that I can think of, to just completely nail a romantic relationship perfectly, and also Regular Show for doing it really well with the boi Rigby. As a writer myself, a relationship really has to mean something, and you have to really plan it out in advance. It can’t be something lazily thrown in, or written just to satisfy viewers. Writing a relationship has to be, as Luz from The Owl House said, “emotional and real”.

[@ArendAlphaEagle]

I thought that Milo Murphy's Law did romantic relationships pretty well too (or at least, much better than Star vs did with Starco)

[@maas1208]

​​​​​​@@ArendAlphaEagle Some things don't need shipping at all, like FNAF. Why would you have shipping in a series that includes dead kids, broken adults, and Animatronics that are powered by souls or agony, and Honestly to me the only instances where shipping make sense is with William Afton and his wife [also something like Evan and Cassidy, I only really see them as friends and to me Evan x Cassidy would only really work properly is if it's in an AU where both of them never died (and if there's no NSFW of them) and same can be applied to the other kids, y'know?] or His Son, Mike [the nightguard from FNAF 1-6] and Mary [the Nightguard from a FNAF fan game called Five Nights at Candy's (FNAC)]. Other than those examples I don't really see a need for ships in FNAF

[@maas1208]

​@@ArendAlphaEagle Kinda Unrelated but what do you think of Shipping in FNAF? You know the Hit Horror Game Series that has Animatronics possessed by the Souls of Dead Kids, A Purple man that killed said kids who also refuses to die, and has convoluted lore that made MatPat go insane?

[@bvick0035]

18:58 Wow, that Miraculous Ladybug Love Hexagon actually made me respect the straightforwardness of harems in anime

[@maas1208]

Not even MatPat would understand that love hexagon

[@josiahtheawkward6008]

Bro 15 year old me was a HUGE Starco fan and even I hated how they handled it, it’s like the universe just forced these two together, figuratively and literally

[@kadan2889]

Me and my brother tried to watch Miraculous but holy crap, Marionette was so creepy to me that I couldn't watch past like, I think ten episodes. Chat Noir was also cringe, and also felt like a character assassination to me but for some reason Marionette seemed kinda worse since even her friend was creeped out... And I don't think she got better, either?

[@ashleyyoung796]

*Marinette. Not Marionette.

[@BootyCrusader]

Nope, she got worse, actually. There's even a few sexual assaults in her records, now :)

[@ashleyyoung796]

@@BootyCrusader That makes me think back then that Marinette is a total hypocrite when it comes to the other stuff that she said and done.🤔

[@kadan2889]

@@BootyCrusader Oh god - h o w f u n

[@cosmicspacething3474]

As for Ladybug and Cat noir, I feel like the pixies or whatever they’re called that give them powers should affect their personality, instead of making them become entirely new characters. Cause that way the cast won’t be too big

[@quantum4589]

THANK YOU. I genuinely never understood why the writers decided to fuck up CJ's character after 1000th Chopper Flight Party (and Sad Sax to an extent). Outside of those two episodes, CJ never did anything that wasn't driven by how aggravating Margaret and especially Mordecai could both be.

[@YujiUedaFan]

What makes CJ worse is that the writers try and force people watching into thinking she's cool, even down to Rigby saying CJ's cooler than Margaret. Yeah... no way is CJ cooler than anyone after the helicopter thing!

[@BlazingKhioneus]

I am amazed we created a love square with literally 2 people in it.

[@calamaria9221]

I really hate when a show puts focus on the shipping because of the fanbase. Especially when they ruin the characters by making them be out of character or mistreating them in some way. Flame Princess and Finn broke my heart as well. I love Flame Princess and her and Finn were so cute together and had great chemistry. And then there's Star Vs comes in and just ruins every character lol. With Miraculous Ladybug, I can't watch it because of Marionette. She is literally a crazy stalker that is being told she's not doing anything creepy or bad. And then Chat Noir's "M'lady" line sends me into the cringe realm every time lol.

[@ntfoperative9432]

Why does Cat noir sound like a neck beard?

[@isaiahlacoste1209]

great video, it honestly feels great to have someone call out the dumb romances in shows because they can really be a great part of a show if done well

[@fdgod1931]

Had a feeling this video would come one day

[@amazingborys1125]

Me too

[@lovetrain2455]

The virgin 'spend an entire show teasing a ship only to make it happen at the end and have them break up off-screen' Nefcy vs The Chad 'have characters hook up early in the season and develop them on-screen' Dana

[@johannesseyfried7933]

@@ThisIsAshley41 I sounds more like they are talking about Star and Marco....but those two didn't break up. 🤔

[@ArendAlphaEagle]

@@johannesseyfried7933 What if they broke up AFTER the series finale??? 😱

[@johannesseyfried7933]

@@ArendAlphaEagle Well, this would make me even more angry. I already fell out of love with Starco, but if these two Idiots broke up after *finally* getting together......then this ship was the biggest waste of time in history!

[@YujiUedaFan]

Freaking Lars x Sadie vs. Luz x Amity (ok, not that early on)

[@lovetrain2455]

@@ArendAlphaEagle IIRC Nefcy said in an AMA after the finale that Star and Marco might break up in the future because that's how teenagers are or some shit, so Star murdered countless magical beings and fused Earth with Mewni for a fling.

[@atlas6690]

I just wanted to say that i've really loved all the videos you've put out recently. you manage to have that dry wit and those clever insults that i find hilarious without veering into being needlessly mean spirited, and because of that i'm always really excited whenever i see you have made a new one! Can't wait for the next one you make cause i'm sure it will be great (also side note i think your 2d avatar is exceptionally cute, it adds profound joy to my day.)

[@toadlord8594]

I’m an Amphibia shipper (obviously just look at my profile photo) but THANK GOD that Matt dodged the bullet on making any of the Calamity ships canon and allow us, the fans to interpret things however we like cause it would get much more obnoxious to stomach on KZbin, Reddit and Twitter if said ship was made canon while the other wasn’t. It’d be a total NIGHTMARE for the majority people who don’t care about shipping just want to watch their funny frog show without being confronted about which girl hooks up with who. The Marcanne shippers, Sashanne and even Sashannarcy shippers were at each other’s throats throughout this whole series especially during season 2 and 3.

[@starburst98]

And it is clear Matt understands shipping because the gravity falls homage episode has a coded message that says "dipcifica 4 lyfe".

[@tomkatt8274]

@TheGlassesPro no calamity ship because canon because anne already has a boyfriend and is straight.

[@starburst98]

@@tomkatt8274 I only remember hop-pop asking if she has a boyfriend in quarreler's pass. To which Anne kicked him for asking.

[@tomkatt8274]

@@starburst98 and we never found out why.

[@syugi7774]

@@tomkatt8274 yeah, it's almost like teenagers typically hate this kind of question or something

[@The_Chosen_Heretic]

Something else that grinds my gears about Korra is the fact that the narrative and the characters just decide to blame all of the relationship issues on Mako? Which is insane given that Korra (if you ask me) was worse than him? Now granted, he still was pretty bad at several points, but to be fair a lot of it was him trying his best to react to situations Korra inadvertently put him into with her shitty behavior? So the plot siding with her is just bizarre?

[@YujiUedaFan]

Also Korra dragged Mako down, only to backstab him later! How is Mako the root problem here? Mako was the fall guy, hence why his personality is meant to be "love to hate". Yeah, no... he and his brother should have just got with other people off screen and stayed far away from Korra's delusional drama.

[@knightshade2654]

What angers me most about the Korra love triangle is that is Mako's greatest reason for existence; his character mostly hinges on providing shipping conflict with Korra and Asami. This was almost directly stated during the recap episode, where Mako solely reminisced on his dates with Korra and Asami.

[@YujiUedaFan]

And then he became a cop later. I like Mako and I don't like how Korra dragged him to her level, only to backstab him too. Mako should have got with someone else and stayed away from the drama.

[@Mario87456]

It also doesn’t helped that he was named in tribute to Mako Iwamatsu like wow what a pathetic and terrible way to “honor” someone like that.

[@AnastaciaZhuk]

Great analysis, as always! I think it's okay in most cases to consider an unusual character ship as long as no ethical lines are crossed. However, love triangles/squares/*add the required number of angles* are quite dumb.

[@amelonnamedkate1400]

The worst thing about Miraculous is that it has all the components to be a GREAT show. And it even has its moments of being a great show. Like you said, it’s a dumpster fire you can’t turn away from and it’s honestly a shame the poor writing takes away from the potential of this show

[@ButterFlyGardenBlossom]

Oh my god, I agree! If it were given to a good creator that knew what they were doing, I think Miraculous could have been a really cool show! I’ve heard there’s a official manga adaptation of the first season and it’s actually better than the original…

[@maas1208]

​@@ButterFlyGardenBlossom Also the Creator of this show is like Alex Mahan aka YandereDev

[@massiveemz4913]

I’ve been waiting for a video like this for quite a while now. Every point you made was entirely accurate. Thank you!

[@ultima1033]

*Reads title* Hoo boy, can already tell this is gonna be good.

[@maas1208]

Yes

[@-inFinity05-]

Thank goodness I’m not the only Starco fan who likes Tom. I try not to think of the INFINITE ways they could have ended this SO much better by dropping the fourth season and about half of the drama and enjoy the fun stuff.

[@sansbazinga9821]

Can we give props to a show that handled romance great? That being Kim Possible. Kim and Ron was naturally developed and was pulled off well with a great payoff. More shows should be like Kim Possible.

[@Zoxiry]

babe new cartoonshi video dropped that aside love your channel man ❤

[@maddiemaccheese8170]

I started watching Star Vs. *specifically because* they had such a good friend dynamic. It was so rare to have a show based on a boy and a girl where they weren't romantic!! Then... Starco. And I stopped watching after that 🙁

[@eatatjoe]

I started watching it for the plot and the friend-slow-buildup of their relationship. Then season 3 happened and literally the blood moon took over the show.

[@ArendAlphaEagle]

Wow, same, kinda. With Marco having a crush on Jackie, and Star having a crush on Oskar, it would mean that Star and Marco would be best friends of opposite genders that AREN'T dating each other, which would've been _such_ a breath of fresh air when it seems like every pair of main characters would eventually end up dating each other JUST because they're the main characters. _Such_ an overdone cliché, and kind of makes the whole thing an expected norm among fellow shippers, which this dynamic absolutely should NOT be. Of course, that whole thing gets thrown out of the window with Blood Moon Ball, sadly. Turns out it's _Milo Murphy's Law_ that has the best friends dynamic between main characters Milo and Melissa WITHOUT making them a romantic couple EVER.

[@avivastudios2311]

True. I hate how kids shows feel the need to shove romance into everything when most kids aren't interested in that. Not saying you shouldn't do it, I just think it's weird that romance is in any show for kids aged 8+

[@catscanhavelittleasalami]

Same. Loved season one BECAUSE their relationship was platonic. As soon as the show hinted at romance I bailed tf out.

[@maas1208]

​​@@ArendAlphaEagle Honestly I'm glad that I left the shipping community since 1. It was toxic AF. 2. Some of the ships don't make any sense. 3. The Fanfics and Fanart are pretty bad especially the R34 ones💀. 4. Its basically a F**king warzone. 5. They treat Criticism of their pathetic ship like it's a F**king warcrime. Honestly I could write a F**king essay of how bad the shipping community is and Thank God I left that community. I'm never going back there ever again. And Some things don't need shipping at all, like FNAF. Why would you have shipping in a series that includes dead kids, broken adults, and Animatronics that are powered by souls or agony, and Honestly to me the only instances where shipping make sense is with William Afton and his wife [also something like Evan and Cassidy, I only really see them as friends and to me Evan x Cassidy would only really work properly is if it's in an AU where both of them never died (and if there's no NSFW of them) and same can be applied to the other kids, y'know?] or His Son, Mike [the nightguard from FNAF 1-3] and Mary [the Nightguard from a FNAF fan game called Five Nights at Candy's (FNAC)]. Other than those examples I don't really see a need for ships in FNAF

[@XC11301991]

Jesus thanks for talking about this. I hated how bad shipping has gotten in some shows and people believe in the ship as making the show good, and sacrificing good story telling. You could also probably add RWBY as well, no triangle but just bad relationship building in general.

[@YujiUedaFan]

Also Voltron for Shiro's non-existent forced mlm relationships.

[@bryanrodasmontoya3864]

bad examples steven universal,regular show,star vs the forces of evil,miraculous ladybug,amphibia,shera and the princess of the lgbt,adventure time,the owl house,infinity train,helluva boss,hazbin hotel,rick and morty,total drama and others this sucks to day for that

[@maas1208]

​​@@bryanrodasmontoya3864 Anything you don't like is "Trash and Woke", maybe try respecting other people's opinions on show you don't like

[@itscosmicnerd]

When I was watching Star Vs, I wasn't rooting for or against Starco until I realized it was ruining the show. It was probably the best example of shipping infecting the quality of an otherwise amazing show!

[@quangnguyenphu8831]

This is why we have to remove the shippers and shippings from our planet earth

[@andiman44]

Sarcastic Chorus makes REALLy good videos on the shipping and cartoon relationships. His channel was the first time I really thought about the shipping in cartoons. I’d definitely recommend his channel.

[@khaliyahjefferson832]

I also recommend Cyrus the great his channel has every miraculous ladybug he goes on detailing on how the show sucks you should watch him he's spitting

[@bryanrodasmontoya3864]

sarcastic chorus is a hypocrite he only make things worst that the reasons shows like helluva boss,star,shera,steven unvierse are cringe

[@maas1208]

​@@bryanrodasmontoya3864 You should at least respect other people's opinions at least

[@thebigidea9659]

I'm surprised the Netflix She-ra show wasn't mentioned but you probably haven't seen it. The show's main character Adora ends up with another character Catra who spent a majority of the time verbally and physically abusing her. The two end up together as the show concludes despite Catra being an abusive and manipulative jerk resulting in a disturbing relationship dynamic. The worst part about these poorly written cartoon relationships is that kids are watching this. I'm sure not all of them will copy this but some younger viewers might be influenced in a negative fashion as a result of shoddy writing and shipping obsession.

[@icejuice4212]

I haven’t even watched She-ra (Netflix’s version, obviously) and I have seen videos about all the times catra abuses adora. It fucking disgusts me! Like holy shit, it’s abusive and not cute in any way shape or form.

[@Ewiwwi]

Even weirder is that the creator said the ship was based off her and her wife ☠️☠️☠️

[@purplvurpl0295]

If Catra redeemed herself and actively tried to better herself I think the ship could’ve worked, but even at the end she still emotionally and physically abused Adora since Adora is a doormat and thinks abuse is love. Such a dogshit relationship, Spinnetossa was a way better wlw couple than them

[@JLacay]

What is upsetting is people were okay with Catradora becoming canon, despite the many crimes Catra had caused and the abuse and manipulation she has done to Adora.

[@redballoon9007]

Which is why I’m more for fanon Catradora than canon. Granted Catra did try to redeem herself in S5 but by then, the damage had already been done. I could say that in the future they do grow as people and have a more stable relationship, which is probably the case. I just wish Catra went on her redemption arc a LOT sooner. That would have helped things a lot.

[@cagedcreature439]

Honestly this has been my personal gripe when comes to romantic subplots (at least in most Western media I’ve seen), it feels like most writers think that the only way to introduce romance to the story is by constantly teasing the audience with things like: will they won’t they, or love triangles, or misunderstandings, etc. When writers constantly tease the audience with these shippings it gets irritating, because now the story decides to take a turn for angsty melodrama with characters that have very little chemistry with each other. Which begs the two questions, why not just have two people fall in love and have a healthy relationship, or why bother have it to begin with if your going to make it unhealthy and obnoxious.

[@YujiUedaFan]

I blame Rumiko Takahashi for introducing this level of drama into cartoons.

[@afloatcashew6828]

I used to love star vs when it was first airing, granted I was pretty young so I didn't have taste in what I watched as I was only in 5th grades when it started airing on Disney XD but I think the shipping was actually a big part of why I loved it, I liked the relationship stuff up to where I was watching and found it entertaining. I eventually stopped watching like halfway through season 3, I had simply lost interest but season 1 and 2 will always be one of those first shows I watched that I'll always remember fondly.

[@Just_Cheffin31]

I agree 100%

[@christopherauzenne5023]

3:23 on that topic, it seriously amazes me that a show switching from being animated in flash to being hand drawn animated leads to it and the action looking worse.

[@zemox2534]

It is not just western cartoons. There are loads of anime that have stupid love triangles and dragging out romances. Now there is nothing wrong with "shipping" but it can become a problem when the story wastes time catering to fans of a specific ship. Star and Marco is a good example. Instead of lettting them be platonic friends thr writers decided to force them together at the expense of the bloody plot. Shipping is fine among fans (as long as it doesn't turn toxic) but it needs to be kept outside the story.

[@YujiUedaFan]

What I really hate is when the start of a show cements a specific ship (even down to them getting engaged), only to ruin it over and over again by introducing characters that only exist to cause conflict for said ship.

[@01NeilHD]

@@YujiUedaFan Sword Art Online did this very thing seemingly once every arc, and it became one of the reasons I dropped the show after Yuuki Konno's death. I was hooked by the high stakes of a death game and the growth of a healthy romance, and neither was worth my investment in the end

[@bryanrodasmontoya3864]

still cringe

[@bryanrodasmontoya3864]

still cringe

[@theultimateshipperf.l.1186]

I would like to see a show with the two main leads a boy and a girl either getting together early and staying with normal issues for the rest of the series or just never getting together with no romantic hints whatsoever Media REALLY needs to start normalizing platonic relationships between a guy and a girl without them being related. So far the only show that has that is the Inside Job. I haven’t watched all of it but from what I have seen it’s has that. I just hope it stays that way 😅

[@hello_ree]

wander over yonder has an extremely strong friendship between the two main characters (wander and sylvia) and it isnt romantic at all. great show super funny too

[@icecreamhero2375]

When l write relationships, I always try to portray happy functional relationships like Gomez and Morticia. Relationship drama can be interesting but I would rather keep it light-hearted. In some shows, I grew up watching the characters would pretend to hate each other then fall in love. I avoid that.

[@JLacay]

I would not write romance in a story at all. It just ruins the dynamic between characters that they'll only care about their love interest more than others, even their own family.

[@icecreamhero2375]

@@JLacay" They care about their love interest more than their family." Only if you write them that way.

[@goon_ass1675]

@@JLacay thats the beauty of writing--relationships and characters in relationships can be whatever you make them out to be

[@p40v1der13]

Same

[@maas1208]

​​​@@icecreamhero2375 You know when I write relationships, I don't really do romance drama.

[@AdrianArmbruster]

I have a rule re: love triangles that would help Star Vs. out a great deal: With regards to romantic false leads, you get one per character. Star gets Tom, Marco gets Jackie. They date these false leads, they determine it's just not working out, they break up, then they date each other. Boom, they're canon by season 3. But instead Marco dates every. Single. Female. Character. that ISN'T Star despite that being the obvious endgame. Every possible non StarCo scenario (who, again, is Destined by Fate to happen as of halfway through S1) is cycled through to no purpose. TL;DR: Just get on with it. Or be more like Lumity, which is a ship that Just Gets On With It.

[@ArendAlphaEagle]

I will always appreciate Milo Murphy's Law for just... NOT doing these love triangles? Milo stays with Amanda, booyah. Zack stays with Melissa, boom. Any other relationships with Milo or Zack that were being hinted at are either regarded as a joke or are pretty much over before the episode ends. No one takes Milo x Joni seriously, it's only to emphasize that Amanda's in love with Milo and jealous when other girls threaten that relationship. Zack loses his crush on Jackie (not Lynn Thomas) near the end and realizes she's crazy.

[@SukiNoKoe]

Marco did not "date" every female character though. It was just Jackie and Kelly.🤨

[@YujiUedaFan]

@@SukiNoKoe Ben 10 from Omniverse does, before settling for the worst one.

[@SukiNoKoe]

@@YujiUedaFan I haven't seen that show xD

[@maas1208]

​​@@ArendAlphaEagle Some things don't need shipping at all, like FNAF. Why would you have shipping in a series that includes dead kids, broken adults, and Animatronics that are powered by souls or agony, and Honestly to me the only instances where shipping make sense is with William Afton and his wife [also something like Evan and Cassidy, I only really see them as friends and to me Evan x Cassidy would only really work properly is if it's in an AU where both of them never died (and if there's no NSFW of them) and same can be applied to the other kids, y'know?] or His Son, Mike [the nightguard from FNAF 1-6] and Mary [the Nightguard from a FNAF fan game called Five Nights at Candy's (FNAC)]. Other than those examples I don't really see a need for ships in FNAF

[@ryanleatigaga7596]

Starco sounds like some fictional company from a comic book

[@ArendAlphaEagle]

Aaaaaaand now it (and Jarco) sound like Grizzco from Splatoon. Thanks.

[@maas1208]

​@@ArendAlphaEagle Some things don't need shipping at all, like FNAF. Why would you have shipping in a series that includes dead kids, broken adults, and Animatronics that are powered by souls or agony, and the only instances where shipping make sense is with William Afton and his wife or His Son, Mike Schmidt [the nightguard from FNAF 1-3] and Mary Schmidt [the Nightguard from a FNAF fan game called Five Nights at Candy's (FNAC)]. Other than those examples I don't really see a need for ships in FNAF

[@Targetstrike]

Meanwhile: The Owl House: lack of love triangles, good ships Amphibia: only one confirmed canon ship in a subplot

[@WDB2005]

And to add on to Amphibia they let the fans interpret other ships and avoid wars

[@bryanrodasmontoya3864]

both shows are trash woke like ok ko and craigh of the creek

[@maas1208]

​​@@bryanrodasmontoya3864 Bro Unironically used the word "Woke" 💀

[@bryanrodasmontoya3864]

@@maas1208 imagine used the Word woke and make it the must thing hated in everything.

[@greatbiglummox8431]

I can’t believe cartoonshi became not just berable to watch but incredibly well-spoken, good job homeboy!

[@brosephthejoe9433]

12:11 To be fair as a kid I thought it would be cool for characters literally called the Ice King and Flame Princess to fight. Also, the U.S. hyped the episode like it would be a big special as well, and not basically what you described it as.

[@carlS523]

I had a feeling this video would talk about how shipping in cartoons cause a war on DeviantArt or Twitter!

[@maas1208]

Fr

[@bryanrodasmontoya3864]

and tumblr

[@privernd]

I don't think Marco and Kelly came out of nowhere. I would argue the characters' relationship had at least a season's worth of buildup which went absolutely nowhere. It's the fact they even had that buildup only to do nothing with it and have an off-screen breakup that makes it so laughable to me.

[@sharmelfattakhov5041]

Honestly, with all this Starco drama it was lovely to see Marco somewhat move on, and while he and Kelly didn't get too much of a screen time together all their intreactions seemed supportive. At this point both of them were careful with their relationship so it's development was healthiest in this whole damn show. I understand it's silly to cheer for underdog ship, but how they handled it was downright disrespectfull

[@privernd]

@@sharmelfattakhov5041 Yeah, I actually really liked markelly. I think the implication was that both of them were a rebound for each other so they were never really down bad for each other. I agree though, it was a pretty healthy relationship. I'd choose it over Starco any day.

[@isla3263]

self- out with a bang as the outro song hmmm much respect to you cartoonshi

[@burrito2981]

Okay, but it takes talent to make a love quadrangle with two people-

[@dividedtime8529]

15:57 Wait there is a show with even more worst romance than these?! "Miraculous Ladybug" ahh yes...of course, how could i forget

[@kiroshow]

Okay but can we all agree Candy and Dipper coming out of nowhere is also so stupid

[@ArendAlphaEagle]

I heard Roadside Attraction was written like that JUST because Alex Hirsch was so confused about Candip shippers from Season 1.

[@greensonickid3304]

@@ArendAlphaEagle I fully believe he did that

[@SukiNoKoe]

well yeah, clearly Pacifica is the right one for him xD

[@ntfoperative9432]

@@SukiNoKoe I fully believe that was supposed to be the canon ship, because they had so much chemistry together

[@SukiNoKoe]

@@ntfoperative9432 They did! And he had a good influence on her too!

[@Miimeemoop]

“Bae wake up, cartoonshi posted another video”

[@FishyAltFishy]

Whenever something serious happens in miracules they just use some time travel stuff to reset everything

[@ghosted43]

Cartoonshi is quite expereniced for this. he brings tons of good points up

[@Hedgee_]

I’ll be honest. I’ve never understood the interest of shipping. But the flame wars that people will go to to prove that their ship is better, that’s way more entertaining that writing that type of stuff.

[@henriquecarballoaranha9100]

I think its peak comedy that pretty much every other ship in Miraculous Ladybug is a healthier relationship than the one the show is pushing the most Nino REALLY dodged a fucking comet when he switched from trying to get with Marinette to getting with Alya. Hell even Rosie and Juleka, who the show barely focus on as a couple, have a better relationship than whatever the ungodly hell the main love square is trying to be

[@Loveslaufey]

i love shipping wars seeing people actually fight and get mad over ships is hilarious

[@ImposterTheory]

Yeah people could post something so simple like fanart and people in the comments would be flamed up because they don’t like the ship 💀

[@supreme-ss777]

Look, I haven't seen all the Phineas and Ferb episodes, but I think it's safe to say Phinabella (Phineas + Isabella) was kind of the "one person doesn't notice person crushing them", but taken to a (laughable) extreme. Phineas doesn't already know Isabella has a crush on him. He literally DOESN'T. (Until Act Your Age came around and made the ship canon). While it does seem clichéd, it's also played around with quite a bit. It's not just "lovey-dovey" and awkward fanfiction stuff (no offense) because that's not relatable. That's not real life. Setting the tone and going slow in a relationship is just as important in media as it is in the real world.

[@YujiUedaFan]

I hate how Milo Murphy's Law also undoes the Phineas and Isabella ship by having them be kids forever.

[@supreme-ss777]

@@YujiUedaFan I mean, it hasn't been 10 years later yet, as Act Your Age was set 10 years into the (canonical) future. Their future was already written for them (literally!), so don't worry.

[@YujiUedaFan]

@@supreme-ss777 MML SHOULD take place 10 years later though because the technology is different to the start of P&F. Additionally, when Phineas, Milo and Ferb make that de-unlickifier robot thing, Linda is RIGHT THERE! She doesn't care and Candace isn't saying a thing! Only way this would have made sense if it TOOK PLACE 10 years later! Don't get me started on the Doof's character downgrade. What, he couldn't last more than 2 months in a school? In the future he hasn't committed a crime for 10 years, yet according to MML, he just... keeps on being a criminal. Once again, only making sense (kinda?) if it took place 10 years later.

[@christosdoesthings]

@@YujiUedaFan it should, but it doesn't. The show canonically takes place in the fall after phineas and ferbs summer

[@YujiUedaFan]

@@christosdoesthings I know, but it makes less sense that way.

[@JJKane01]

Say it before and I'll say it again, Jackie Lynn Thomas exited the show the same she entered, as Best Girl