Case Steam Engine Governor Rebuild - Tear Down and Disassembly

Case Steam Engine Governor Rebuild - Tear Down and Disassembly
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[@JoeSausen]

THANKS for this segment! I've loved governors since I was a kid watching the traction motor running the thrashing rig on my grandpa's farm. Years later I was in a coma for two weeks. When I woke up, the doctor was doing a psychological test with me. When he asked me who was the governor, I told him the it controlled the speed of an engine. He must have been a 'city kid' because he had no idea what I was talking about. I drew him a rough picture about how it worked and he seemed that he was quite interested in it. However, I had NO idea that there was a 'person' called a governor. Considering that I was a math teacher, I was also dismayed and somewhat amused that I couldn't add 2 plus 3 without counting on my fingers. Happily all those abilities came back by the time I was out of the hospital later that summer. YES, I now have a special place in my heart for fly-ball governors! Well, as far as that goes, you, Keith are fairly high up on that list too. Best wishes for good health and more great segments!

[@peterhobson3262]

I've always liked the ingenuity of components like this governor, doing a relatively complex job with simple pieces.

[@anthonyelam2257]

Our forefathers were really smart people building things that could last along time .... that is why we should respect and listen to our elders .... ❤❤❤🎉🎉🎉😊😊😊 ....

[@mariusj8542]

One thing with these old machines have going for them is that they are very serviceable. If this governor was to be built today it would be stamped out of aluminum and glued shut with epoxy, so the only thing you could do is to order a new machine.

[@jamesmoe9188]

I dunno, I think aluminum and epoxy might be a bit ambitious, I would guess ABS and low grade pipe cement, but even that might be ambitious.

[@TomokosEnterprize]

Hello Keith. I hope you are having a beauty of a day my friend. My grand dad was a steam engineer/mechanic that would take me on Saturdays. He would spend a lot of time tinkering these govenors. Everything had to flow with such sweet, smooth movements. He would talk to it as it was a child of his. On the way home he would ask me all about everything what I saw and understand what I saw and what I understood of his kids out in the prarie harvesting feilds that day. I am pretty sure I can do a basic feild service ot take the unit to the shop for bigger servicing. I am 70 now and Tinker with our steam locomotive at our museum once in a while. Best dirty hands I get these days.

[@bchdsailor]

Every workshop should have a ginger apprentice - clearly taking in the information as a good mechanic trainee should 😉

[@petert3355]

Apprentice..... Bite your tongue..... Ginger is the shop boss mate.....

[@jimc4731]

Look at the bore that the steam valve runs in for wear , out of round and grooving. Keep up the good work! JIM 🎉

[@bobtorrence3461]

Keith, double check the bore that the spool goes into. I believe you might find it egg shaped. I don’t think taking all the slop out of the shaft will solve the problem, and some slop is probably needed to allow spool to float in its bore otherwise the spool will be dragging on the bore causing future wear.

[@BrianEltherington]

Was wondering if that was the reason for the pinned end stop button. After thinking some more, the retaining bushing that holds the stop button into the spool looked like it was a rather close fit to the shaft and would not allow much float between the shaft and the spool. If by design there is enough axial clearance in that bushing to give some float, then the pin design needs to be kept. The bore in the new shaft would need to be tapered on both ends to allow the pin to rock as well as swivel in the shaft. The small contact area between the pin and shaft would make this connection a regular maintenance item and account for the excessive end play when worn beyond limits. Unfortunately, the reassembly video is probably already in the can.

[@jd944t]

Keith, I believe the small collar pinned on the bottom of the brass control rod is a universal joint. If the pin is at 90 deg tp the upper pin, then it allows for brass rod misalignment and prevents the sliding valve from binding. It should have some rocking, just not the up and down slop. Watching from Oz, love the channel!

[@alandaters8547]

That's what I think too (but you got there first)!

[@davidrichards5594]

@@alandaters8547 right, it's a flex joint to prevent the valve from binding

[@stevenslater2669]

Now that’s the way to start a project properly: A CAT SCAN!

[@anthonyelam2257]

It is so nice to work on parts that are not frozen rusted together .... makes it so much h easier .... ❤❤❤🎉🎉🎉😊😊😊 ....😊

[@troyboyd3100]

Invented by James Watt of Scotland. Also the guy the unit of power (Watt) is named after.

[@Hoaxer51]

A Scottish man who made the world a better place!

[@PeterSelby-b3t]

No Watt did not invent the flyball governor and never claimed to have. The idea was used in corn grinding wind mills long before Watts time.

[@walterplummer3808]

Good morning Keith! It's always interesting to see these old mechanisms. Have a great weekend!

[@captcory]

Balls to the wall !

[@johnarrington6292]

I also thought this was where this expression came from but I just looked it up and the phrase actually comes from aviation when you push the ball-shaped knobs on the throttles as far a they'll go toward the firewall for max power. If you look on Google ngram you can see the term only started to be used in the 1960s.

[@derbyshirebirdwatcher6054]

Love the way you pull a complex piece of machinery apart with complete confidence. Most of us would be worying about how to get it back together again.

[@BrianEltherington]

Pictures make reassembly much easier. You would most likely be able to put this back together if he sent you all the parts and you watched this video for reference as you went back together.

[@johncloar1692]

Thanks Keith for the video Interesting project. Look like a good one to follow. But they all are!

[@brucetuckey7909]

David Richards would be a good source of information for rebuilding the governor, His channel has many videos on the subjects.

[@musiqtee]

Agree. I’d guess the separate (loose) part of the valve stem is a function, not a bug. I.e. for taking out vibrations so the valve itself and its seat won’t have to bear them?

[@Hoaxer51]

@@musiqtee, Maybe it’s some kind of self centering valve.

[@musiqtee]

@@Hoaxer51 Yes, it gets pressure differential in two directions, as not to need to “press” against the steam itself. I just thought that the rotation above, and the gearing, create vibration or bending forces perpendicular to the valve stem axis. A “semi-loose” mount could take that out - but I’m entirely out of my field here… Richards is the way better source. 😅

[@boe4448]

Keith, Always loved watching the governor mechanism on steam traction engines. Where the term balls out came from. Keep this kind of content coming. Thanks, Boe

[@PorchPotatoMike]

Balls out!

[@butter262]

Good morning

[@MrRogsmart]

All those years volunteering at the Georgia Museum of Ag. are really paying off here. Sometimes in working on old equipment it really helps to know how they put machines together back then. Thanks Keith.

[@johnarrington6292]

Those spinning governor balls are the first thing that catch your eye when you first see a steam engine as a child. Nice to see you take one apart for some TLC. This piece was well behaved and didn't fight you at all, for a change. Interesting project!

[@Failure_Is_An_Option]

Never had a kid mention them once. Not even point at them. They notice the fly wheel, and maybe a bit of the crankshaft/rod/piston. Always the flywheel.

[@alandaters8547]

The steam flow (and power) increases when the valve opens, so a poor valve seat seal would NOT reduce power. The valve is opened by the large spring removed at the end of the video. If this spring has become weak, that would cause the balls to be able to overcome the spring more easily and close the valve at a lower RPM, thus reducing power. The original setting of the adjustment control would give a clue if they had to tighten the spring as much as they could. If no specifications are available for the spring rate, trial and error could be used. Either shim the spring with washers or try replacement springs until it works properly. (Testing would require a steam source or a really big compressed air supply that could maintain the flow through that valve at engine operating pressure!) Note: this arrangement has a failsafe action, if the spring were to break, engine power would be greatly reduced.

[@chuckinwyoming8526]

Thanks Keith, I rebuilt the governor on the local antique tractor club's 1913 Case 50 steam traction engine. After over 100 years of use it was in similarly overall good condition. The only part that needed replacing was the brass stem connecting the flyball section to the valve body. It was so badly warn the packing couldn't seal the stem.

[@TishaHayes]

Very satisfying to watch a gunky, greasy teardown and inspection. It has always been my most favorite task when working on something mechanical.

[@greeceuranusputin]

It's HIGHLY likely that that piece on the end of the rod is supposed to wiggle around that way so that the rod can slide through the seal without any lateral forces. Is there any way to find out what the specs are for that larger spring? Springs don't last forever and do relax when being under load for a century.

[@DTBaker-gq4fd]

I really like using that cheaper grade of offshore plywood as a working surface. It is somewhat absorbent, and saves my bench, and the object being worked on. Excellent video, very interesting.

[@edsmachine93]

Keith I am totally amazed at the condition of the parts in the governor assembly. How old it is. People back in the day were incredibly talented with their inventions and machines. I am also amazed at your knowledge of old equipment and the functions. Thanks for sharing. Have a great weekend. 👍

[@oldtugs]

Steam leaking past the valve will make the engine run faster, not slower or with less power. Heavy loads require more steam. It is more likely they have worn piston rings or excessive wear on the slide valve, or the governor is so far out of adjustment that there is insufficient lift. Those are the only places "bypassing steam" will lead to power loss. Bypassing the governor will have the opposite effect. Watching further it more and more appears that years of neglect and lack of maintenance has gummed up the thing so much at it will not operate as it is designed to. That valve is a balanced valve that uses pressure on each side to reduce the load on the speeder spring, it is loose on the shaft so that is can rotate and wriggle a bit in order to seat better. Please don't redesign it, you will seriously damage it. Just clean it thoroughly so it operates freely without the drag from years of burnt sludge gumming things up. It is a piece of precision control equipment and deserves better care than it has seen.

[@MillersPlanet79]

This is good advice. Valve disks are always loosely attached to the stem in steam valves to enhance seating and prevent steam cutting.

[@oldtugs]

@@MillersPlanet79 Thank you. Should also note that it should be lapped. Leaving any defects will lead to cutting and leaking. If the input shaft is sloppy and he absolutely cannot resist doing something other than cleaning, rebuild the shaft to original spec and ream the bore for a babbitt liner. That would be a low risk video worthy project.

[@frankely6378]

I mostly agree with you. I can see rebuilding that stem to remove the vertical slop, but it does need to retain the "wobble". Like you said, it allows stuff to line up correctly. The vertical play, though, could contribute to the lag in the power. And like you said, clean the heck out of the upper mechanism. If that is gummy or sloppy, it may not react quickly enough or far enough to do it's thing.

[@anntrautwein1430]

Other item to look at is the speeder spring it may need to be shimmed or replaced.

[@oldtugs]

@@frankely6378 I was talking about the input shaft, the one with the pulley that spins the balls. He said there was an excessive amount of wear on the shaft and housing. There is no need to "rebuild" the spindle.

[@StevenEverett7]

Yes! Another interesting project. Thank you, Kieth,.

[@justinfisher2627]

What even is this?! Every bolt simply unscrewed as you wanted it to. Every pin came out at the first tap. Every component slid apart by hand, no tools even necessary. How is this real? When did reality shift into this strange alternative timeline? The machinery gods were smiling on you for this one ;)

[@ssboot5663]

Id bet that lower valve pin that was loose was supposed to be a tight tapered fit pin in that hole to take up the slop and got a straight pin put in it.. Just like the first pin.

[@williamdavis7094]

always something Interesting

[@markholby5652]

I think the valve must be able to center itself on the valve seats given that the gland above may not be concentric with the valve seats. That is the reason for the looseness at the bottom of the stem. How loose it needs to be is another issue.

[@dan-o9746]

Enjoyed this project. I'll be waiting for the next video...same bat channel

[@dessilverson161]

Seems a damm good clean would solve most things.

[@jimstone2669]

I loved this video i have work on governors of all kinds back be for i retired i liked seeing you take this one apart you gave the size of the big wrench would please tell us the small size all so.

[@markneedham752]

@ <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="808">13:28</a> Yes, re-engineering stuff, can be dangerous😮. I have fallen for the trap. I mean what would those old buggers know.😅 A bloody sight more than I have given them credit for. They were very clever, astute engineers.😊

[@oldtractors]

Don't change the design of the valve stem. Just fix it so there is no axial movement, but there is some movement to let the valve self align and not bind up.

[@scottvolage1752]

Once again Ginger the Shop foreman saves the day. Keep up the good work Keith and shops Kittys.

[@shadetreemechanicracing22]

Running balls out.

[@elsdp-4560]

Thank you for sharing.👍

[@frankerceg4349]

Thank you Keith!

[@russellbertrand3242]

I believe it's called a lock washer.

[@atvheads]

I am happy for your weight loss Keith, and i love old school. I have 40 years in the profession, but mostly cnc the last 27 years, but 13 years only with convectional lathes and milling machines.

[@ddblairco]

thank you

[@fransdriesen1311]

Nice construction and engineering..

[@floridaflywheelersantiquee7578]

Thanks for sharing

[@clydecessna737]

Sir, it would be great if you had a spotlight on the work in question.

[@SciPunk215]

This will be a fun little project! And useful too.

[@tomswindler64]

Nice 😎😎😎👍👍👍

[@lineshaftrestorations7903]

Governors I've rebuilt nearly all had valve stem wear around the stem packing nut. No doubt in attempting to minimize leaks the packing nut was overtightened which will make the governor performance sluggish.

[@kevinwayne7546]

Maybe ln place the valve seats? couldn't hurt as long as they don't drop too low.

[@davidhudson5452]

Ginger approved

[@geoffs7232]

What happened to Mary Anne?

[@MrPossumeyes]

Always interesting, Keith.

[@melshea2276]

Happy Friday Georgia!😊

[@LifeBy10000Cuts]

Why not a constant dia. shaft, and ream out the pully and gear as well as the journal?

[@johnplump3760]

I and watching Leo from the beginning rebuilding Taliho. You did a great job with the capstin. I am enjoying watching your videos. You are an excelent machanic with much knowledge in many areas. Please keep postng your videos. Many years ago I worked on analog computers with gears and all sorts of parts. Yor work reminds me of this.

[@philipheinhold5340]

Hi Keith, thank you for posting another great video, so interesting 🙏 Greetings from the south coast of Ireland 😃

[@MadMotorDoc]

Brings back memories of the steam stoker box, has that been written off ?

[@davidc6510]

Keith it must be a good omen to have a part tear down go smooth for a change. A great start to the project. I look forward to the future videos. Thanks for sharing.

[@timf6916]

Good job

[@jasonlacey5979]

Excellent...

[@Randiego]

Ken, wouldn't the engineers have that small "ring" at the bottom of the shaft removable so that they can replace it when it is worn as it is now? That seems to be why it was a single piece that was pined in place for replacement when it is worn vs. replacing the whole shaft.

[@filepz629]

❤️‍🔥

[@BillySugger1965]

I can’t see that the slop in the valve stem would obstruct operation at all. It might reduce valve travel by a few tens of thou, but that’s insignificant to the whole valve travel range. Instead, I wonder if the slop was deliberate to allow the valve spool to float in the bore, so that the alignment with the stem didn’t need to be precisely guaranteed. I wonder if making it a one-piece stem will reveal otherwise perfectly acceptable minor misalignment between the stem and bore.

[@Katchi_]

Keith is well versed in tolerances for these machines. Not his first dealings with them.

[@Hoaxer51]

After taking everything apart on that governor, I’d soak every part in the parts washer for a couple days and clean that thing up, it’s filthy. Lol

[@travisashbrook7250]

Hey Keith love your channel and content did you know the term "Balls out" came from steam governors like the one you have there

[@jamesmoe9188]

Sweet! First in!

[@TomokosEnterprize]

I would go ahead with that bit of engineering as long as there is a blue print given to the owners and ? is involved with this beauty. As with every change you made. I am really pleased your taking this on. There are getting to be fewer and fewer of us with some knowlage of these systems. See you next post my friend. Onward eh.

[@charliebryson1285]

Lets get it on, a lot of people don't know that the saying Balls to Wall came from, well here is the reason.

[@johnarrington6292]

Actually comes from aviation throttle knobs pushed to the firewall for max power. People only started using "balls to the wall" in the 1960s.

[@Katchi_]

@@johnarrington6292 Correct. The OP doesn't seem to know the phrase balls out.

[@geraldharkness8830]

something different keith!

[@paulputnam2305]

I just love the way you just jump right in and get after it. Not only that…Meowwwwrrrrr meow meeeooowrrr purrrrr purrrr PURRRRR!

[@jacquespoirier9071]

just clean it and reassemble it will solve at least 90 % of the problem For sure that removing all the slop will take care of the rest excellent project excellent video.

[@michaelwade9348]

Is there a corresponding valve seat that the spool piece rides in? Maybe that has wear and can be replaced.

[@frenchcreekvalley]

My big concern would be how to test it before sending it back.

[@WreckDiver99]

was that bottom piece a wear item? Designed to be replaced if needed while not needing an entirely new shaft assembly? OR was this a repair at one time way back, and instead of making an entirely new shaft (as you are considering)? Neat piece of equipment.

[@mikepoore1653]

I would expect a loose connection on the valve stem to cause surging.

[@robertoswalt319]

It looks like all of the steam oil worked in your favor with the disassembly. It looks like the governor is in good hands

[@ChickNetzle]

lots of parts

[@singerap]

Always wanted to know how those things work. Thanks. When you get it put back together perhaps you can do a quick demo on how to adjust the speed of the engine with it.

[@DAKOTANSHELBY]

Yes, appears there has been much neglect in the maintenance of that govenor. All gummed up over the years. Looking forward to seeing it all back together, cleaned up and with tighter tolerences once you machine a couple of replacement shafts. Please remind your viewership of where the phrase "Balls to the wall" originated and it's meaning. Thanks for what you do.

[@johnbuffinton7324]

Where the term... "balls out" comes from

[@311Bob]

Something completely off topic, what happened to the metal planer? Id really like to see it in action

[@michaelcaprio5269]

Do all the centrifugal weights need to be equal? Would changes in their weights affect operation?

[@Katchi_]

No need to be identical. Weight affects the rate, as do springs, and pre-tension.

[@Digital-Dan]

Amongst your vast library, would there by any documentation for this part?

[@mattomon1045]

Hi Ginger

[@anthonyelam2257]

The key word is gunk .... probably from using oil lubricants over the years to keep it from rusting that burned on during usage .... the secret to stopping this is a oil that is resistant to this like a non sludge type 2 cycle oil in motorcycles and periodically steam cleaning part for any build up ..... ❤❤❤🎉🎉🎉😊😊😊 .... this is called proper maintenance ....

[@royreynolds108]

The "gunk" is probably mostly steam cylinder oil as it would be used a lot around the governor besides for the valves and pistons.

[@kindablue1959]

I wonder what happened to Mary Ann. I hope he's OK and living with the grand kids.

[@DS75921]

How could something that covered with oil and grease ever rust up?

[@brucet9799]

The problem is maintaining RPM under heavy load, not closing the valve, but rather opening it! This problem could be caused by the engine being unable to the deliver the power the valve demands. Maybe the engine is the problem not the valve. Unless the valve is unable to fully open, or out of calibration.

[@alandaters8547]

Good point. It would have been nice if they had manually trial to control that valve. that would have helped determine where the issue was-top part or valve itself.

[@josephmagedanz4070]

Wouldn't it be nice if all disassembly went as smoothly as that...nothing stuck fast with rust, no immovable taper pins, no stripped threads, etc., etc. Looking forward to the repairs and reassembly!

[@number1trucker]

Kieth, is that hammer made of lead?

[@charlesmiles9115]

😛😛😛😛😛😛❤❤❤❤👍👍👍👍👍👍👍

[@allenahale1]

I have to be honest - this is the first video of yours that you did not give me full confidence that you knew what you were doing. My biggest issue was you are seriously considering remaking the valve stem with an integral disk machined at the bottom of the stem rather than the original removable disk without knowing or understanding the function of the removable disk to begin with. Why or how can you "improve" a design that has functioned for over 100 years without understanding and knowing the function of each component to begin with? I see that some of the viewers have identified knowledgeable resources for Steam Engine Governor Rebuilds. It might be a good idea to use them to fully understand purpose, function, and tolerances of the components before proceeding with your "rebuild".

[@robertlevine2152]

While I agree with the basis of your comments, I believe that your comment is a bit harsh. I am sure Keith has rebuilt his fair share of governors. I am surprised that Keith did not try to obtain drawings of or a manual for the governor. Consulting with those with more experience is always a good idea.

[@oldtugs]

You are absolutely correct. As a licensed chief steam engineer with experience on reciprocating and turbine engines, I cringed more than a few times while watching and listening to this video.

[@Hoaxer51]

A quick call to Dave Richards would be a good idea or I’m sure there are others who are equally qualified. It might answer a couple questions that seem to be popping up.

[@garybrenner6236]

If this is the first video you lost confidence in this guy you either have not watched many of his videos or you know nothing about machining! The only reason a real machinist watches this guy is for laughes! Go watch Mattys workshop or Cutting Edge Engineering and I hope you will see the difference!

[@oldtugs]

@@garybrenner6236 That's a bit harsh, the guy is an agricultural scientist with a home machine shop that needs no apology. He is an accomplished hobbyist who occasionally steps into water above his head ... who doesn't?

[@jmptaz]

It just amazes me how something that old can come apart so easily if it was newer you would be beating heating and cussing at it lol

[@alanmitchell7322]

Whats the inside valve seats like do they need laping in

[@tellyfaulkner3466]

I wondered that myself or if it would help.

[@bigun447]

I understand that the old steam men would say they were "running balls out" which meant the flyballs on the governor were way out and controlling the engine speed. In aircraft when they say "balls to the wall" they mean the throttles, which usually had ball knobs, were against the instrument panel or the firewall, depending on various birds, and the engine/s were at full throttle. I am sure there are a million uses for the term "balls" and it most likely has a million meanings.

[@guypehaim1080]

I think the "slop" in the end of the valve stem may be intentional to allow the valve discs to seat without binding. The discs need to find their own center as they seat.

[@user-rc8oy1nm1d]

When they were working hard is the origin of ''balls out'' or ''balls to the wall''.