Casual VS Hardcore MMO Players

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Are you a filthy CASUAL!
or a HARDCORE MMO PLAYER!
Or somewhere between?
Let's discuss the idea of casual vs hardcore, in relation to:
1 - time spent playing MMOs
2 - Knowledge of game mechanics
3 - Involvement in the MMO subculture
4 - Attitude toward other MMO players
Remember, being casual doesn't mean you're a bad player, and being a hardcore doesn't give you the right to be an elitist.
Thanks to the patreon supporters and twitch subs for keeping the channel going, you gorgeous people.

[@Jandau85]

The definition of hardcore/casual player is as follows: Anyone who plays less than you is a scrub casual. Anyone who plays more than you is a hardcore no-lifer. You and only you have achieved the perfect life-gaming balance and everyone should emulate and look up to you.

[@cattysplat]

We all perceive ourselves as the average even though it's more likely we all fit into very specific sub groups of people and personality.

[@Kravenrogue]

And I consider my self a Hardcore Casual Pkayer

[@GodOfPlague]

Lol I think thats perfect

[@hahaok9918]

This man gets it lmao

[@s.t.5993]

👏👏👏

[@ChrisFreeman_4Bit]

Josh: "My videos cater to a more hard core MMO audience" Me: "I haven't played an MMO in almost 10 years."

[@justinwhite2725]

Likewise. Until new genesis I wasn't playing an MMO at all. Now I play it a couple of hours a day.

[@SuperDropsX]

More or less same. I used to play WOW back in the day, but I haven't touched an MMO in a while. I do very much enjoy Josh's presentation tho, and his Dreamworld Series was what really pulled me in. I will soon-ish start FF14 tho, but mainly to have some fun with my fiance, who's very deep into it.

[@miserrsps]

Yeah little off the ball there

[@byronmorley2514]

I'm sat here thinking the same, I've only ever played eve online 10 years ago, i just like the soothing voice and gaming stories

[@TheZenytram]

Well when i used to play mmo 10 years ago, i was pretty much the hardcore of the hardcores. So much hardcore that the hardcoreness still remained for all this years without playing.

[@chrisholloway8958]

Josh always looks like he fell asleep at the office and woke up with an idea for a video.

[@zinc2zinc2]

So true! But we still love him

[@Naptosis]

If Josh's hair gets any more glorious, he's gonna start talking about "Aliens".

[@LegendaryDesu]

He looks and sounds like how I imagine Aslan from the books would be as a human.

[@rodoxx1888]

lmao

[@creativecorner2071]

“I’m not saying it’s aliens.... but it’s aliens.”

[@ahmadmalik3549]

Just make sure he never meets asmon

[@crimsonwizahd2358]

@@ahmadmalik3549 Their meeting would create a hairline singularity, resulting in a hairline black hole that no follicle could ever hope to escape...

[@WestCero]

I like to call myself "casually hardcore" I like looking into all the details, I like learning all I can about the game, all that good stuff, but I don't need to do all the hardest content or have a perfect rotation or play completely optimally.

[@HappyBeezerStudios]

Same here. Pretty much the same way.

[@JaimeEstrada89030]

I was going to write essentially the same comment and saw this. I like crafting and hate dungeons, I spend a LOT of time to do the more mundane things that the hardcore people skip over for endgame.

[@zinc2zinc2]

Same. Casually hardcore just describes it best

[@Nobody-md5kt]

This is the perfect description to my playstyle. Sure, I'd look up the meta, deep dive into the wiki, find the best equipment, try optimal strategies, spend days of grinding, min max the grind. But on a day to day basis, I play no more than an hour and am perfectly happy staying at mid-game.

[@TheRealFoop]

Softcore

[@skyblade7438]

Josh: "If you watching my channel, then you're likely on the hardcore side of the spectrum" Me, who hasn't played an MMO since Club Penguin shut down: "Yes, absolutely, 100%. What's a warcraft?"

[@697_]

TIL some people (or maybe just this person) think club penguin is an mmo.

[@auqustfire]

@@697_ I mean, "massive multiplayer online". It was online, with multiplayer and a lot of players. So, in the strictest sense, Club Penguin was an MMO, just like Animal Jam.

[@itzaleaf405]

Me: Spends more time watching youtube than actually playing MMOs (Not just one, total). Josh: "YOU! *YOU ARE A HARDCORE MMO PLAYER!"*

[@theultimm]

well yes but on minecraft for some reason

[@skryonix357]

Ah, WaW: the classic question

[@smokeytripod]

"If you play over 3 hours a day, you may consider yourself hardcore." Me who plays 6-7 hours of ESO a day and still considers himself casual: Interesting.

[@Spr7ritus]

See it like this. If you got a job, family, kids and a hobby, than dedicated 6-7h per day is actually a challenge. If you dont have some of these and you dedicate 1 third of your day to the game, you definietly can view yourself hardcore. Your playtime is almost the same time, like an 8 h full time job.

[@TakadoGaming]

Exactly the same for me right now lol

[@Lorettefromchaos]

@@Spr7ritus Spiri, it's not a challenge, it's literally impossible 😅

[@Tripskiii]

i think this phrase is appropriate now. "get gud nub" lol xD sorry i had to!

[@arthropodqueen]

same, ADHD will to that to you

[@PokeMaster22222]

7:47 That's funny, because I've never played a single MMO in my life; I just stumbled onto this channel a while back and stayed because your stuff is entertaining to watch.

[@waaurufu]

There's also this middle ground area that people call "Hardcore Casual" when you play a game in a casual way but for hardcore periods of time. Your roleplayers, your collectible farmers, people who maybe don't focus on end game high tier mechanical portions of the game, but are really deep into their specific niche.

[@GodOfPlague]

I think thats me. I like being a khajiit merchant in ESO and I like playing the game and getting advice/ giving advice when I can. However I cant be bothered doing math to play my favorite game and determining best in siot meta and all that.

[@cracmar03]

@@GodOfPlague Pretty much similar how I play ESO. I don't give rat's ass on 'meta' and doing all that dumb math to be 'hardcore', I play ESO because it's TES game not because it's MMO. However I will keep time schedules, know game enough to always help people and I am very serious in dedication to role play - to a point when I have even housing assigned to fullfill roles personalities. Also my main has like 100 days on his counter. And he was my 6th character after all.

[@HappyBeezerStudios]

If that is a "hardcore casual" am I a "casual hardcore?", not investing too much time, but learning mechanics beyond what the game simply tells you?

[@Miakutog]

yes, it's me, gold-farmy-McPet-collector

[@kuipert4195]

you could also refer to yourself as mediumcore instead (or i guess mediocore)

[@redxlaser1562]

Huh, by these definitions I guess I’d actually be more of a hardcore player in many of the games I play. I’ve never thought of myself like that.

[@Tall_Order]

Thats why i made the joke that I must be a hard core dancer in SWG Legends, because I spend over 3 hours a day just doing that. And its not even a challenge. You can AFK most of that time. lol

[@therranolleo468]

well most of these are just research numbers, they're done so the general can see what the other's are like in comparison to them, I still think being a casual or hardcore is labeled by yourself, you can spend hours playing a game just enjoying what's around you without in-depth knowledge of the combat, bugs, lore, etc

[@patrickpol6156]

they just lowered the bar on what it means to be hardcore, back in the days when gaming just got started you where only considered hardcore if you played games for over 16 hours a day, fuck sleep, you can do that when your dead. that was the mentallity we had back then but i guess now you only have to put 3 hours a day in to earn yourself the hardcore badge.

[@FluffyTailedPrince]

@@patrickpol6156 With world bosses that needed that much hours if not more to down, that was pretty understandable

[@Tall_Order]

@@patrickpol6156 I always used to think hardcore meant you spent most of that gaming time crunching numbers / min-maxing your character to have the best dps, best stats, best everything. At least this is how it was for me when i used to raid in EQ2.

[@sevendeadlysquids404]

I would be interested in you doing a community poll to see how many of your viewers actually actively play MMOs because I haven’t played an MMO in about 7 years.

[@HappyBeezerStudios]

Do Destiny and Planetside count? If not, I haven't played one since about 2011, when I transitioned away from my last MMORPG because I had basically done everything there.

[@Kenionatus]

@@HappyBeezerStudios I'd say Planetside is an MMO but not an MMORPG. Destiny, I'd put into the MMOlite category with Warframe.

[@rawmaw]

same

[@_kalia]

I feel like I'm something of a 'firmcore' player. I like to play a game a bunch, and research and learn about the mechanics under the hood, but it's to sate my curiosity and allow me to play casually yet competently. I'm not interested in playing at my peak, I just want to play with a comfortable degree of power and understanding that allows me enough freedom to experience the world and enjoy a quirky fun playstyle.

[@Crown.A]

I farm the sword of a thousand truths just to warm up in the morning.

[@MoxxyEvo]

Salzmen foretold he would return once again. The legend of of the Crown.

[@Nondyan]

Legend has it he's still farming to this day.....

[@IAmValefree]

The only way to kill that which has no life...

[@r3volt21]

I level a new char to 60 in classic wow by only killing boars for my warmup.

[@Prawnsacrifice]

It is the only way to save the world...... Of Warcraft

[@jonathanb8735]

Sigh, I was once a Hardcore player.. but then I took an arrow to the knee.

[@dwarvernbard9782]

Sorry about that I missed the target dummy...

[@katherineminor3402]

Congratulations on the marriage

[@CaptainJackedPickle]

Another mate lost to IRL..... Rip

[@Tall_Order]

@@katherineminor3402 Arrow in the knee is a perfect metaphor for marriage lol.

[@asdergold1]

@@Tall_Order It's where it came from, yeah.

[@OTGSoxxy]

I've never known where to place myself on the casual-hardcore scale, it feels like everybody has their own definitions for the terms. I've spent countless days grinding, but I never considered myself a particularly high level player in any of the MMOs I've played. Setting my own goals and just getting lost in the world have always been the main draws for me.

[@TheLivingRoomHero]

Thought I had left my hardcore days behind me 😂 I guess the lifestyle never really leaves you. I 100% agree with you on how you act and behave towards other players. I feel a sense of pride to be able to bring guidance to less experienced players.

[@Odisher7]

Laughs in being interested in a genre but not wanting to play it (just like fighting games)

[@raqyee]

Do try Strive. I was in the same shoes as you for a long time and I'm so glad I took a leap.

[@gagne6928]

I've never even played an MMO lol

[@BlueBeetle1939]

Always wanted to play city of heroes back in the day. Played champions online for a while but never got to max level

[@heatherharrison264]

I've never played an MMO and likely never will, but I am interested in observing the scene from the outside. I also enjoy watching a good train wreck, and the MMO scene provides an endless supply, including horrendous gamer toxicity, monetization scams, and a decent number of terrible games, as can be seen in the Worst MMO Ever? videos. I've enjoyed those, and I also enjoy gameplay videos featuring toxic idiots, but I don't want to deal with those idiots myself. When it comes to gaming, I'm a loner. I don't want other people in my games - just me and the computer. Sadly, single player games have their issues too, as there are plenty of poorly designed games, and some of the AAA games are about as bad as multiplayer games in their monetization scams.

[@LikaLaruku]

Reminds me of hearing that a large chunk of Legend of Zelda fans like the idea, characters, & lore of the games, but won't actually play the games because the mechanics are too alien from western RPG.

[@Piqipeg]

Personally I consider myself more casual nowadays. Used to be really hard-core, but it wasn't healthy for me so I cut down on playtime, now I at most play a few hours a week.

[@Shiroze]

Same :)

[@LikaLaruku]

I'm Midcoe, but I can play for 8 hours a day one week, then not touch the game again for nearly a year. But these days I hop between 2 or 4 MMOs for a few hours for about a month, then switch to another hobby for a month.

[@Tall_Order]

I like to think the older we become the more casual we become. Not just because we're slowing down from age and time is moving faster, but also because we have families to take care of now, and jobs.

[@arivana10]

Same. Although there are times when I play a game for several hours a day for like a week or 2. But then I don’t touch it for weeks/months. I play WoW. I use to play WoW all the then especially during WOTLK xpac.

[@Umbrella2906]

Uhh... I used to be a Hardcore Gamer like you but now i only play 8 hours a day... Also: I used to be an Adventurer like you, but then... That is how i read your comment in my mind xD

[@lumerarkenstone]

I'd generally consider myself more of a casual player. The fun I derive from MMO's is largely from the adventure of it. Exploring the world, doing quests, collecting transmogs and player house stuff, and especially Role-Playing my character. I also really like some good ole PvP, that's always fun. That's not to say I don't enjoy instances like dungeons and raids, I do, however that's just never been the whole game for me. I find playing the game primarily around just instanced content, and not much else just boring as hell. So while I do a fair amount of research, and I do try to play my characters to the best of my ability, I'm definitely not the kind of player who rerolls my main just for the sake of the meta. I care far more about my characters themselves and their stories in these virtual worlds they inhabit.

[@All4Tanuki]

derive deride means something very different

[@YuYuYuna_]

100% with ya man. I feel exactly the same. Variety is the spice of life as they say and in MMOs it's no different. I'm playing FFXIV right now and I feel the exact same as you do. The dungeons and raids are fun but a huge component of what Im loving about the game right now is the social aspect, the story and developing my character, collecting transmogs, mounts, minions, etc. and exploring the world and really taking in the scenery of each biome and region. I've always been about the story in games and the characters and world(s) within the story so that's a big component of what makes me care about a game. FFXIV is the first and only MMO I've been able to actually care and enjoy investing my time into and it's in part because of the Story but also the community and the various ways the game subtly encourages socializing and being helpful to other players.

[@Captain_Hapton]

"If you play over 3 hours a day, you may consider yourself hardcore." No, I just consider myself having no life, social or otherwise, outside my day job.

[@GodOfPlague]

ha ha ha I'm laughing while I'm crying. I feel that.

[@JC-zx5li]

Life gets in the way of my gaming

[@patrickpol6156]

you got a day job? and here im hard at work at hardly working every day.

[@Francorocco]

the funny thing is that if you say that you play 4-5 hours a day on path of exile they would call you a casual

[@Gameoneer]

1-2 hours - casual, 3-4 hours semi casual, 5-7 hours - semi hardcore, 8-11 hours - hardcore, 12 hours and more - no life.

[@Black_Ryze]

I mean... Mr. Strife-Hayes does look like he could star in awkward British rom-coms that make it to the US a year after premiere.

[@Otembe]

move over Hugh Grant, its Josh Strife-Hayes' time to shine!

[@NoCareLuke]

@@Otembe Could be a rom-com centred around a long-distance relationship linked together by an MMO. Josh playing the role of the 'Hardcore' MMO god and an American actress playing the 'Casual' new MMO player. I'm sorry, not sorry.

[@TheMemeCompany]

He is actually an actor

[@GodOfPlague]

@@NoCareLuke Id watch that. Soemthing different for a change.

[@Black_Ryze]

@@aggromemnon335 I'd watch it

[@melvanaltena83]

Before video: im a proud casual and i enjoy it that way. After video: damm turns out im a hardcore player never knew.

[@themurricane8711]

you and me both pal

[@jacksfields]

You're just very hardcore about being a casual! Relish in it

[@melvanaltena83]

@@jacksfields now that is if i may say so a genius way of looking at it and i will happily steal this gem of a thought!

[@Kravenrogue]

I consider my self being a Hardcore Casual Player lol

[@patrickpol6156]

or you can say your a hardcore casual and let people make of that what they will

[@DeanCalaway]

I was doing the Marionette earlier today and when one lane failed a good number of people started to leave. We still managed to finish the boss and win in the end, gotta love how the elitist hardcore players are always the first to quit when things get difficult.

[@ALittleMessi]

Is it more efficient to quit and do something else or try again? Because if it is then that honestly checks out. Why struggle because of mistakes

[@johnoutdoors87]

Vanilla world of warcraft was my best experience for this cross over. I wad a restro druid and in the raid group guild I was in, I learnt so much from this very good and very elite restro druid. The lady behind the character was invaluable and is probably the reason I played the game up Wrath.

[@jdevlin1910]

Never played an MMO. Just enjoy the videos. I'm a tourist. Cheers!

[@ancientwalker4041]

Same. I started playing after watching his videos n then even now, I'm just skimming over the game.

[@crystgrg4801]

Same here

[@onlysweaty436]

You should try world of warcraft classic. Look up online what sever and race for that sever you should pick you will have alot of fun if you have never played before was my first when I was about 12 best mom still to this day in my opinion

[@musikalniyfanboichik]

and better don't start. mmos are waste of time.

[@Penguinmanereikel]

Legit. I just enjoy videos about game design in general

[@cclem0n143]

I don't play mmo's but I like your videos.

[@hansgines3404]

Same I don't play MMOs, but your videos are awesome.

[@Aitherea]

I really appreciate the sentiment at the end about simply not being a dick just because youre good. I know too many people whos expectations of others in NORMAL MODE content (the stuff for everyone) are just way too high.

[@veckgames]

"A casual player will understand not to stand in red and will follow basic tactics." Clearly, Josh hasn't spent enough time in FF XIV and remains pure of heart.

[@kipoyedcl]

i thought he is talking about someone with the statement after that one...

[@andrewmoluf4299]

must not have played WoW much either, mages sitting and eating in the green stuff is what they do

[@HappyBeezerStudios]

Which means the average game journalist is less than a casual player...

[@Wyzai]

that's the hardcore people who came from WoW. "This just a dungeon. Not even Hard-Hard-Hard-Hard Mode. I can aggro these 7 groups easy. Wait I died?! This healer is AFK!"

[@Wyzai]

@@andrewmoluf4299 I only played classic WoW. I thought mages have a macro that clicks on "1" every 2 seconds. Unless they need AoE in which case they press 2 every 8 seconds.

[@Darudeen]

I'm not a hardcore player, cause I turn off BDO for the night...

[@kfirezer]

haha I can relate

[@SevereArtisan]

Same here

[@RazShape]

Same

[@mattakudesu]

I actually messed up my laptop fans because I left BDO running for two months straight doing AFK fishing

[@BlueBeetle1939]

This is hilarious because my roommate falls asleep playing bdo all the time now

[@MrPhyxsyus]

3h a day? I see ppl playing some games 15 hours a day.

[@justinwhite2725]

3h per day is the average.

[@katherineminor3402]

@@justinwhite2725 which then wouldn't make it hardcore.

[@kreenbopulusmichael7205]

@@katherineminor3402 there is no casuall MMO player, even those who cant play as much are still minmaxing, you cant minmax AND be casual

[@CaptainJackedPickle]

Think the study's conclusion was under 4 hours is a casual player.

[@Kravenrogue]

To me 3 hours is The minimum I play, If I can't play more than that, so I might not play at all

[@metallboy25]

"If you are watching this video at all. You are probably more toward the hardcore player spectrum." - Actually I played one MMO for a year 13 years ago. But Im watching every video because I enjoy listening to Josh Strife Hayes talk about his biggest passion.

[@Abigail_Snowbit]

Meanwhile I am sitting here, having never played an MMO and is just enjoying Josh's content.

[@OmniDan26]

gay

[@unamed1142]

I think a great deal of us are like that yeah

[@leobracken2316]

@@unamed1142 Indeed so.

[@DarkWarchieff]

If I mess with these runescape ticks too much, can I get lyme disease?

[@LikaLaruku]

You give me vacation time when it's too cold or hot to go hiking or to the beach, & I will play 5-8 hours a day... Then hit total burnout & not touch the game again for 6 months, & this is why I don't play subscription games.

[@LarsonPercussion]

Its a good thing that the critically acclaimed MMORPG Final Fantasy XIV has a free trial with unlimited playtime up to level sixty, which now includes the first DLC “Heaven’s Ward.” Thats basically two whole games for free!

[@jackwire6109]

Darrowshire Vanilla WoW is releasing 30th July with patch progression, updated pvp system with no honor decay, no world buffs in raids, zero tolerance for botting and much more. 4000+ discord members and rising.

[@tictac4949]

All of the hardcore attributes apply to me other than the time played per day. I love looking up and understanding mechanics even if I only get a few hours a week

[@Tonino_O]

Wow zezima is a name I haven't heard in decades..

[@CaptainJackedPickle]

Still plays Runescape 3

[@vyntarus9618]

There's also a type of casual player who rejects advice even when delivered constructively though, to the detriment of the group. A combination of those people and the elitist tryhard type can get pretty exhausting.

[@HappyBeezerStudios]

I always tend to say "everybody was a new player at some point and had no idea of the game. Those people can be taught. And they will enjoy being more successful with their in-game adventures. But some are learn-resistent, and those you can't help. Just try not to be a dick about it" And going by that really helps. It's a bit like the "no handholding" thing some people talk about. You can extend your hand, but the other person has to grab it. Don't try to pull them with you, especially if they have no idea of how to walk first.

[@evanhaukenfrers4765]

I was part of a guild like that initially in Classic WoW. I called them Casual Elitists. It honestly seemed like they considered any indication of how to improve as a personal insult. I ended up leaving the guild around the time BWL came out, because they were still failing at Molten Core and showed no interest in doing anything to get better results.

[@anteprs7908]

@@DelPlays a lol isnt really a mmo it a pvp game

[@richardh9133]

This video actually gave me some time to think where i belong too. I have to say that this depends on the game. i started eve online in 2012 and then quit. came back in 2014 and now have basically done 75% of the content it offers, been to player meetings, events, have merch at home with autographs of staff and photos with GMs and Devs. I can truly say that in regard to that game i am an HC player. But when it comes to other games i usually just stick with enjoying them on the surface. Like a good glass of rum. I dont need to know everything about rum to taste a good one and just simply enjoy the moment. thanks for the tons of videos. i have been browsing through 20+ the last week and i am glad you made them all .

[@shardinhand1243]

its a super rare treat to be able to help a fellow gamer, i wish i could more often but i suck at being social in games or out of them, and i only have experiance in gaming not the tech or programing modding side of it so i dont often get to help other players besides teaming up.

[@GhostNappa2k10]

Pah, coward, I've had three cups of tea today. I'm suffering in this North England heat, but I've still had three dammit!

Yes, I'd rather be sweating profusely than not have my coffee during the day. Weather is similar over here in Denmark 😀

[@10cody7]

iced tea solves that issue

[@GhostNappa2k10]

@@10cody7 I'm more of an iced coffee guy myself! Except I cannot currently get it as I'm self-isolating, and it sucks.

[@GhostNappa2k10]

@ Make sure to be drinking enough water alongside your coffee! Especially in this bloody weather, it sucks 😂

[@how2pick4name]

I've played more hours than most "hardcore" players yet I'm still a casual player. I have more fun using a free 58 ALI DK to camp Timmy, get a shitload of white kittens, get them through neutral AH with a friend and selling them for 25G on the horde AH. You may spend hours organising a raid, mostly waiting only to end up with a shitty drop if that's your idea of hardcore. =)

[@Kravenrogue]

I think like you, and I consider my self to be a hardcore casual player lol

[@HappyBeezerStudios]

The fact that you know the terms already and got that much knowledge of the market makes you already hardcore by the definitions shown.

[@spasticpanda8933]

In my time playing games for 20 odd years....people who are "hardcore" are almost always cocky and rude to "casual" players. It's hard to get into a community when the majority demands X amount of time played or X amount of items in inventory

[@frostdracohardstyle]

Then dont play with those people. You are joining their community expecting them to be like you. Thats is the wrong way to go about things. Find like minded individuals. Also having confidence isnt the same as having arrogance. I hope you arent saying cocky to mean being confident in their ability.

[@spasticpanda8933]

@@DelPlays there are certainly players like you out there I do agree. I find myself there by joining discords and helping new players out on the games I take seriously. Just wanted to point out that alot of people will see your level and instantly disregard you because of it.

[@Claude-Vanlalhruaia]

The type of hardcore players you mentioned are the end game pve players who min/max and wants to push their limit. It can come off as toxic demanding people to have certain requirements like gears, dps, knowledge of mechanics and over all skills. This is so that people waste as little time as possible while still pushing further, they have different group/guilds/discord and you probably won't interact with them much, they recruit people based on their requirements which is fair because they also have a right to play their own playstyle. Most of them aren't toxic nor rude, they can be demanding but you need to be able to handle such competitive environment in the first place, if not then it's probably not for you. The "hardcore" people you met are probably just general douche, some of them might be hardcore end game players but only some at the very best. Playing mmorgp it is often better to join like minded players to share the experience.

[@HappyBeezerStudios]

Every single one of the elitist hardcore endgame players started out as newbie with no knowledge at one point. It's only fair to share the gathered knowledge. Years ago I was part of a group that stayed around the new player area in an MMO. But it was never about showing off or ridiculing the small ones. It was just an area away from the towns without dangerous (to us) mobs. We had all kinds of people, from some that took the game as a 3D chatroom, to people participating in the weekly guildwars and endgame raids. And yes, we helped out the new players. A bit healing here, some buffing there, maybe some piece of knowledge, but without toxicity. It was a good time.

[@glitchederror1018]

That depends entirely on the game and it's community. I'm mostly playing warframe right now, and veterans are generally very helpful to new players and aren't normally elitist

[@jcp2731]

The part where he said those who watch these vids are probably hard core mmo fans, made me chuckle, I’m here having never played an mmo in my life but loving these vids!

[@Dumle95]

I'm a "no life tryhard" player but I love taking new(er) people bossing with me on OSRS and helping them out :)

[@CaptainJackedPickle]

Good on yah mate. Another Osrs player here :)

[@toelint5706]

i’m an osrs n00b, we all really appreciate people like you

[@baron3904]

I'm lvl 72 with full granite, d long, 44 prayer can I kill Barrows brothers? Guide is less than helpful

[@NavnikBHSilver]

I'm a hardcore gamer then, but only a casual mmo player.

[@tats_sacs]

The opposite can be true too. There are hardcore mmo players who are casuals in other games.

[@vstev3472]

I’m only hardcore in hours played but casual in actual gameplay

[@beveryofa2546]

Josh I believe that it's safe to say that your videos have become a very regular if not expected part of my weekly consumption, your videos are absolutely top notch, I predict that you will have a million subs within 2 years, you already make content that would be expected from a channel with over 10M subs, I don't know how anyone who watches your videos couldn't enjoy it, including the developers you sometimes criticize. Do not stop. :)

[@ClickToPreview]

Your hair is fast approaching Oblivion Adoring Fan levels Josh. I'm here for it :)

[@putinpunhere]

"My videos cater to a more hard core MMO audience" Nah, I just have a friend that likes them far more than me.

[@SeppelSquirrel]

Same. I watch JSH videos to get an understanding for what the heck my friend is talking about. I played Ragnarok Online and Mabinogi in the early 2000's because I was trying to hang out with my friends. Nowadays I do what I enjoy: text-based roleplaying. Think MUSHes and MUDs.

[@affroirl9854]

Hey Josh I just wanted to say I really like you addressing this. I've witnessed elitism in a couple games and it creates divisions in great communities, having negative effects for everyone. The best fun you can have in MMO's sometimes is helping out new players mentoring them and hearing the excitement in their voice as they discover something you did a long time ago. You calling this out I hope will maybe make someone rethink insta-kicking people from groups and generally harbouring ill intent towards the other players.

[@juri3745]

Why am I just finding your videos now??? I am gonna binge through all of them. Great vids bro 💜💜💜💜

[@Deidryk]

I consider you an authority on mmorpg and I hold a ton of respect for you, so thank you for alot of what you said towards the end, I really needed to hear it It would take too long to explain, just know that I've always felt guilty for being somewhere between hardcore and casual, and I've always felt like I had to pick the class that fits the meta and always ignored the classes I've always loved, thank you for freeing me

[@DragonAceSg7]

I guess by this I'm more hardcore. I sort of go back and forth as far as my MMOs are concerned but I overall spend a lot of time gaming overall and trying to 100% various things.

[@goldibollocks]

Damn, I was hardcore af back in my days. With approximately 6-10 hrs/day in Diablo 2, Lotro or WoW The real question is: Which one is more hardcore? The player playing 3-4 hours a day and going to all the conventions or the one that is socially so inadapt that he would never ever attend a convention (let alone, leave the house) and plays 12 hours a day?

[@benlev3375]

Both are hardcore. Casual would be logging on every few days for 2 hours.

[@kickitwithduck5027]

I would have to say the latter is more hardcore when it comes to gaming but the former is more of a hardcore fan I would say. They both love the game but show it differently. For me a casual gamer is just someone who plays a game because it appeals to them. Like say they don't care for stat builds or lore. They just play to have fun. Hardcore to me is generally any gamer that invest more than just time in the game, but like understanding the game mechanics better, class specs, etc. Casual gamers will know enough to play the game while Hardcore gamers study the game while they play. Both have fun but with different intentions. At least that's how I see it. The only thing that bothers me is the perception that ties with the labels of casual or hardcore. Like Josh says, that doesn't mean you suck as a casual and being a hardcore gamer doesn't mean you're an elite player. It's just how well you understand the game you're playing.

[@callanmaart]

Good Video Josh, great message, for more depth: See "Why PVP in MMOs is so hard to balance - Power vs Skill"

[@tatters8236]

I don't even play MMOs, your videos about them are just fascinating and entertaining. Keep it up, Josh!

[@gregorioustian2394]

Josh: "studies shows the average players plays 3 hours a day." Me: "3 hours a day? you gotta pump those numbers up, those are rookie numbers."

[@Mripoststupidstuff]

Thank you! I played Warcraft for 12 to 16 hours a day, every day. And that was just "Average Hardcore player" I wasn't even that great at it... Now I play GTA:V Online. and I'm just a filthy casual, only playing about 10 hours a day... WTF is up with these numbers??

[@Miha-ii3dy]

Ahh, the sweet age of 12. When we were bragging about how much someone plays in our carefree lives.

[@HappyBeezerStudios]

I understand that workdays mean less time (between 8 hrs work, 8 hrs sleep, transit time, house chores, cooking, eating, etc), but on a weekend It's easy to do more than those 21 hrs in just 2 days.

[@SnarkOne]

"Let's make it a community worth being in" Spoken like a true Casual

[@All4Tanuki]

Dont Fr*ck With Use Hard Core gamers WE shit up our community, make new players feel unwelcome and then cry when our game gets shut down due to its dying playerbase

[@plaguedoctorravennotscp0496]

I don't play MMORPG's much anymore but I still watch your channel

[@michaeljbuckley]

Watching this video means you're more of a hardcore player. Me listening as I like Josh's style of production and he has a great voice. I'm not really a gamer just like Josh 😂

[@Miranes]

So I'm a casual player with more average time than a hardcore, interesting

[@nick15684]

Definitely a casual player. I very rarely play MMOs in the first place, and when I do it's usually not for more than an hour or two at a time. I'm much more of a single-player game type of person. I don't particularly have anything against MMOs, the formula just really isn't to my liking most of the time. I can still find enjoyment in them, and they can be a nice change of pace, so I play them from time to time.

[@Claude-Vanlalhruaia]

Its along term investment genre that will eat up your other game gaming time the more you play. Its not for everybody.

[@HappyBeezerStudios]

Do you use the restoration exploit in Skyrim or savescum in games with a chance? Because those are actions of a hardcore player. Learning, understanding and exploiting mechanics

[@esprix1550]

"is it tea or coffee in my mug? its neither. It's boiling hot-" >proceeds to stick fingers in the mug me: WTF? "-in england, so I'm drinking ice" I was shocked LOL

[@HappyBeezerStudios]

I expected a hot batman inside

[@katmannsson]

>Cries for WoodenPotatoes not getting named as a relevant MMO Content Creator

[@AraliciaMoran]

Sorry, even multiple wooden potatoes cannot beat a tactical one.

[@JC-zx5li]

Think of myself as a gamer, by these metrics i would be on the hardcore side, average 6hrs a day, 3hrs a day on game stuff not in game... I think there might be an extra metric (or detail to a metric you missed) ... more casual read up on their own class, hardcore read up on other peoples classes too even if they dont (and wont) play them, knowing the interactions can make some very fun things possible and if you dont know the other persons class you might miss a potential fun or useful interaction.

[@rodrigogrm4266]

I have not played mmo for years. Just landed here and stayed. You deliver this universe with precision, method, rational passion and elegance. A real mmo Zarathustra!

[@samwisecannedcheese1892]

I actually like channels like the ones josh named, but not because I’m a hardcore MMO player, but because I don’t have time to play video games much now that I’m older and these you tubers videos are a nice way for me to enjoy gaming without gaming.

[@samasrcounts6079]

Non-META hardcore gamer here (is this why I feel like a noob in ESO)

[@cracmar03]

Non-meta stuff is fun, especially with mad science of ESO.

[@HappyBeezerStudios]

@@cracmar03 Totally agree. and not just in MMORPGs, but all kinds of games. Or as I like to say: "One is not a pro when he plays only with the best meta equipment. One is a pro when he can play with the worst stuff and still has a chance to win" Off-meta stuff can be fun and even catch other people off guard, because they never expect it. And some times you discover a completely stupid, but fun build, that will never be competitive in any way but makes you laugh and enjoy the game.

[@GBEWgw2]

i literally play guild wars 2 for like 30 hour periods. probably going to end up killing me lmao.

[@TheMichigami]

NCsoft will probably kill the game long before it kills you, its tradition for them

[@GBEWgw2]

@@TheMichigami Fake news. Guild wars 1 is still up and running true to how it was when guild wars 2 released even. NCsoft lets arenanet do what they want.

[@TheMichigami]

@@GBEWgw2 tell that to City of Heroes, Tabula Rasa, Wildstar, etc. they love to prune the tree the moment they need a scapegoat for poor numbers somewhere and they tend to pick whichever has the worst numbers in korea at the time, doesn't matter if its actually doing great globally, if its not hot specifically in their home market they'll kill it and blame all their problems on it. They do it less now than the old guard did, but they still do it, so it remains the running joke about the company.

[@GBEWgw2]

@@TheMichigami none of those mmos were anywhere near what guild wars 2 is and like I said before, ncsoft let's arenanet do what they want. If this games going to be ruined why hasn't the first iteration?

[@GBEWgw2]

@@TheMichigami It just seems like your another one of those nerds that lists a bunch of a facts about a game studio you don't like and declares it shit. Arenanet are run pretty independently from ncsoft, it always has been.

[@karenwang313]

I don't really play or even like MMOs, but I do enjoy watching your videos, your insights apply to more games than just MMOs. And by the looks of it, I guess I'm more hardcore about league than I thought I was lmao.

[@TheArchDandy]

Interesting. I don't comment a lot but this was fun and new to think about! I'm sort of between I guess, never thought of that- always thought I was considered casual. In FFXIV I've played enough to be a crafting mentor and have done just about all the content, I can help folks through the majority of dungeons and so on but I am not the sort who knows exact numbers, timing, exact stats, that sort of thing. I like to help people and point people in the right direction if its something I don't know. I direct my new FC recruits to the right places if they want to find a minimum ilv static OR if they just want to know a lazy way to make gil or do some gold saucer things or something when they don't have a lot of time. Nice breakdown of the perception of hardcore vs casual and decision-making. Your videos are always great- thank you!

[@mattjharrisyahoo]

For WoW Classic/TBC - "have they played on private servers?"

[@edwardkeirle4453]

Just hitting max level without a boost makes you pretty hardcore in classic 😂

[@jsthompson84]

What pushed me from being hard-core to casual was having a kid. When I was younger I never thought that you could be too tired to sit in front of a screen and press buttons. Well, time humbles us all.

[@madi_whinter]

the funny thing is I don't even play mmos but I watch your videos because I like listening to you talking and videogames are interesting

[@emanmodnar2]

"If your watching this video, you might be hardcore" -- Dang, I've been found out! Also me; Re-watching the video because I'm trying to figure out why the heck he's spamming shield lob in brayflox when he has full threat already. (Answer; Boss turned to spit on a player, had not approached tank yet, tank was confused, crap I'm hardcore if I know this.)

[@Tall_Order]

I spend over 3 hours a day dancing in a cantina in SWG Legends. I must be hard core... Exotic 4 is only for the most hard core entertainers. Are your hips up for it?

[@ragemeister9634]

Here for the roast of Mortal Online, we all know its gonna make an honorable mention in the hardcore topic.

[@DanjasLP]

Josh: Are you a hardcore or a casual MMO player? Me: Idk, I don't play MMOs, I just enjoy your videos

[@Insertein]

I feel more casual than hardcore... for an indefinite amount of time that can be shortened by implicit pressures such as having friends who like to do hard content or extended by the lack thereof. Playing MMOs all solo-like gives me time to appreciate what I will now theatrically refer to as "the frames between": which, put succinctly, is the stuff most people skip. Cutscenes, ambiance, witty dialogue, that sort of thing. A lot of gamers play at a metaphorical 60 FPS, but I like the metaphorical 120 FPS; to take my time and dedicate the resources and attention to having a much smoother, well-defined experience with many memorable moments.

[@anteprs7908]

To you be a casual player who must be this 3 things: 1 a player who does content casually, 2 a player who does ONLY casual conent so no hardcore raiding or m+. 3 a player who plays at their own limited time. A hardcore player is the polar opposite . BUT THERE IS MIX OF BOTH IT MIDCORE or known as semi casual or semi hardcore.

[@EckosamaGhostTsushima]

I usually play 33 hours a day, so I'm definitely a f i l t h y *casual* !

[@alexreilly6121]

GET OFF MY (INSERT MMO HERE)!! YOURE CLEARLY NOT SERIOUS ABOUT IT.

[@WinterHE]

I guess there are no hardcore FFXIV gamers because raiders play 2h a week.

[@WinterHE]

@Honudes Gai *Log in tuesday after weekly reset, do the 4 raids in less than 2h, log out until next tuesday.* Raiding in FF in a nutshell. I know because I used to raid until I got bored of It.

[@InarusLynx]

I play 3 hrs every weekday and all day on weekends when I don't have anything else to do.

[@WinterHE]

@@DelPlays well, when It comes to Savage, anyone can hop on Party Finder on patch week and clear the first three floors of the tier in a couple hours, last one takes quite more effort but there is really no preparation when you can just join a random party finder and clear with pugs day 1 of patch in a couple hours.

[@WinterHE]

@@InarusLynx I'm sorry for you.

[@InarusLynx]

@@WinterHE why? I'm happy and it helps me relax from my 58 hr work week.

[@john_michael97]

I mean, I’m not a hardcore MMO fan, just a general gamer, But you have a pleasant voice and present information well, so listening to you is enjoyable. 🤷‍♂️

[@Andoxico]

I was a hardcore FFXIV raider and I was the helpful mentor type. I'd join practice parties and show them strats and give tips and just generally help them clear, I even met my current gf in a raid that I helped in. But over time as I got better and noticed more and more things that people do wrong I just gave up trying to help. I can't even run normal content anymore because as a paladin I'll be doing more damage than DPSs and doing mechanics and not even get commendations. I've never felt more isolated from the community and it's killed my love for the game. Thanks for reading my blog post

[@mr.noname9416]

Lol, try playing Runescape for 3 hours a day you won't get anywhere. I remember playing 10h/day as a kid during summer vacation

[@adanzavala4801]

And that's the sole reason i'll never play that shit.

[@leroyjenkins2639]

@@adanzavala4801 in all fairness it’s more of a second screen game. If you’re playing another game or watching something it’s pretty fun to click over every minute or so and at the end of the show or whatever you’ve gained a whole lot of XP with virtually zero effort

[@livegains3441]

Pre-premiere: Neckbeard vs p2w boosters

[@Luciffrit]

I think you have some of this backwards. The people going to the meetups and cosplaying etc tend to be the casual players who play the game predominantly for the social aspect. I think the main difference between the two would be "My fun is derived from success" and "My fun is derived from participating". Elitism tends to stem from insecurity and narcism or someone tired of being disappointed by "randos" removing their ability to succeed. I wouldn't be caught dead in most of those social gatherings but I have spent endless hours theory crafting and exploring mechanics in all manner of videogames. I wouldn't say that I am the most uber hardcore gamer out there but I do strive to better myself at every possibility I get.

[@cracmar03]

Totally, I would like to attend to such meetings and I tend to like seeing cosplays. I don't think that's hardcore. Hardcores care for numbers and timings, not for looks.

[@3sgamestudio]

This channel is still very much underrated! requires a lot of more attention. Good quality materials like always :)

[@guyinreallife6035]

I play 16 hours a day on the weekend... I'm whatever that makes me. personally i HATE being called "casual" because I dont spend 40 hours a week doing mythic raids, I CAN play at that level, I just have a job and something called a 'life'.

[@TheJunp3i]

You're not hardcore, unless you live hardcore!

[@rogeriotrindade2852]

I, for example, don't have that much time to play MMORPGS anymore. However, I have a lot of admiration for the genre and I'm always seeing related information about how far new systems have gone. I'm not even a casual gamer, I'm an enthusiast of the genre.

[@pkj2148]

I don't even play MMORPGs, never been into them but for some reason, I enjoy watching these videos.

[@mister-x2]

Not everything needs to be a "community". Getting tired of the term tbh

[@SM-ev6if]

Community's form naturally over common interest, no matter what it is. Literally every hobby has a Community of like minded people who enjoy it.

[@HappyBeezerStudios]

@@SM-ev6if And the best thing, it doesn't force you into it. You can like playing a game, but don't invest deeper into it. Same with movies, books, and basically every other kind of hobby.

[@_Just_John]

I have around 200 hours in Stardew Valley on my phone. When I purchased RimWorld, I played it for 300 hours in the first month, which was possible because I was stuck home on home office "working"... But I played only 200 hours in the first month of Dark Souls 3, because I had to work. This is casual fun for me. I consider game to be "hardcore" if I don't play it longer than 2-3 hours straight, because I am super focused and it's too mentally exhausting, like in the case of Tarkov. So I am filthy casual, who like to play hardcore games 1/6 of my time.

[@_silience]

I never touched a MMO before and I'm def a single-player guy, but your videos are always so well-thought-out and presentable that I watch them anyway. Hope to see more videos soon :>

[@Gigawood]

Hell yeah! I played WoW for 8 years and have been playing Warframe for 7. I *love* being a mentor to others; I want people to be able to understand, appreciate, and enjoy the games I play as much as I do. Teaching and sharing is a super easy way to do this and it costs nothing.

[@kalandorno]

I appreciate this video. The attitude is on point.

[@iTheDarkKing69]

Glad i found your channel, also Mod Ash is a legend

[@chriseyebee]

11:06 A LOT of gamers in general would benefit from this kind of mentality. Great video, Josh. Thanks for the thoughtful content.

[@freecomkcf]

this is what i've been doing on my vice of choice, Dungeon Fighter Online. i know _enough_ about endgame raids that i can probably reasonably salvage them if shit goes south. what has that gotten me over the past seven years? well, the whales still hate me because i am wasting their time that could've been better spent apparently just shitting on DFO and not moving on to something else, and people who just hit level cap still hate me because i'm not strong enough to carry them.

[@cookiecreep9204]

I'd say i'm more casual but spend my time in the game basically religiously... So after a certain point i just hang around, listen to the world chat for any questions people might have and sometimes go exploring. Nothing better than showing a new player my favorite farming spot in warframe, or help them out with a quest in gw2.

[@Monsterinabox]

Love the video Josh! If u see me in GW2 say hi, names the Casual Hardcore...of coarse.