Cat vs. Mono debate! What side are you on?

The heated debate… Catamaran vs. Monohull… the cards are on the table. 5 sailors including @oceancruisers and @elenaundben battle it out between Cat and Mono hull sailing yachts for life on the water, cruising, anchoring, heavy weather… it’s all in there.
Guests: 🎖
Andy Heskeith~
‪@OceanCruisers‬
oceancruiserspo...
Elena Und Ben~
‪@ElenaundBen‬
elenaundben?igs...
Ed~ Edward Bearsall Marine engineer
@edwardbeardsall
edwardbeardsall...
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#podcast #saillife #sailing
#cat #catamaran #mono #monohull #yacht #boat #sail #sailing #ocean #cruiser #bluewater #debate #review #anchoring #lifestyle #boatlife #sailhub

[@byoceanandearth]

Great chat guys, really enjoyed this!

[@SailHub]

Cheers, it was a load of fun and more to come! Any debate ideas for them throw them over on comments here or the community chat 👍🏼

[@lucyblue2082]

We love our cat. So I am a bit partial. I just wanna add something: Flipping a cat would need a lot of sailing mistakes. Not reefing early enough for a start. And it would need a lot of wind. Plus it does not happen often. If you do see this happening it is mainly the very light performance cats. Also, if a catamaran flips, it does not sink. Thus you can stay with your boat in case of emergency. A Monohull however, if it starts sinking, thats it. Also, a cat usually has 2 engines which is a plus for safety. Great work by the way. Loving your channel.

[@SailHub]

Thanks for the extra points!! All very valid and for people to understand and consider 👊🏼

[@chippyjohn1]

A monohull can be design with watertight compartments, as many as you like. A well designed mono will self right, very hard to do that in a cat. Mono hull is stronger also, and the argument of less room is really down to the design of the boats. If one boat has a wider beam but is the same length, of course it will most likely have more room. you can have multiple engine in a mono also.

[@SailHub]

All very true

[@rafaelmalhado7585]

Another amazing new section on this channel... the debate space, keep them coming !!!

[@SailHub]

Cheers Rafa, really good fun these✌️

[@reklov827]

More performance on a monohull? Catamarans are normally faster particularly on downwinds. It very much comes up to the planning and construction quality for both, monohulls and multihulls. There are so many bad catamarans on the market, people looking for 5-star hotel room lookalike 'bedrooms' instead of slim and performant hulls, the whole charter industry amplifies that even more. At boat shows and in sales cabin plans and apartment like interior is more important than safety and sailing quality. This is true for both types of boats, but I feel it is even more the case with catamarans, as many people choose them just for their livability.

[@SailHub]

Hi, yes, I think you are right regarding the charter market, floating homes are definitely par for the course! In our conversation we found that the average boat these days is generally built as a production boat and therefore basically a floating home. These large floating home mono’s are generally wide and flat to create space, they are also light to save cost. Due to this design they pretty much do out perform the average cat, which is of course built like a caravan with small sail arena and very heavy (for a cat) and also poor hull shape for performance. A good example of this would be a 38’ Jenneau downwind ant 8.2 knots against a lagoon 380 (I believe the fastest lagoon) managing 1/2 a knot less. This was a situation I came across earlier last year. Don’t get me wrong, this was a loaded up cruiser. An empty 380 would be faster but that’s not why people buy these boats. Of course if you bump the quality of boats up a notch or two everything changes, and you are most definitely right! A mono can’t compete with a fast cat. At all. 👍⛵️

[@ianedmonds9191]

From a dinghy perspective when it gets super windy the fast monohulls run away with the race because they can use the wind and plane whereas the cats are massively dumping sail so the don't nosedive and pitchpole. I've sailed both and having pitchpoled while on the wire I'd prefer my high wind experiences in a planing monohull. Luv and Peace.

[@SailHub]

Cheers Ian, yeah.. when it comes to heavy weather I’m defo a mono guy!

[@26N80W]

I saw a video recently of a tornado that ripped through a mooring field and the monohull just healed over and the cat next to it lost its right.

[@SailHub]

Yeah, there’s a lot of windage on a cat at anchor, they tend to “sail” on their anchor too which is a nightmare for chafe.

[@chippyjohn1]

There is a lot of debate between the two, but I would choose mono for rough seas especially. The wider a cat becomes the more stress it must withstand, hence cats are usually made lighter and smaller. The only time a cat is better is in moderate to light weather where waves are high frequency but low amplitude. Even in these conditions we have an array of self righting or damping devices to make the boat more stable.

[@SailHub]

Sure is a lot of debate here! Wherever there is personal preference there is debate 👍 thanks for the input!

[@edwardhaigh4249]

I think this discussion was about heavy production boats that dont sail well anyway,performance multihulls are a different story.

[@SailHub]

Sure, the discussion was based around “average” boats. Performance monos are of course a different story too.

[@edwardhaigh4249]

Yes i agree.

[@SailHub]

Such a yes chide for us… I would absolutely love a performance cat and a super lightweight one off racer was right at the top of our list however we choose mono for the next boat, basically because we want to go to the arctic at some point.

[@jonnydotnet]

Lots of different types of catamaran. Our 34' cat can sail comfortably at 40 degrees to the wind without dagger boards and she actually heels so you know when you're pushing too hard. She has the equivalent living space of a 45' mono. Good discussion points guys!

[@SailHub]

Cheers! Sounds like an cool cat you’ve got there, reminds me of a cat I really fancied.. 36’ carbon beast that cruises at over 15 knots… Not enough space in that one though! Your sounds like a great boat. Tricky debate… so many option these days!! 👍⛵️

[@26N80W]

When your primary cruising grounds are the Bahamas, cat is really the way to go.

[@SailHub]

That sounds sensible

[@user-gg6om8vp4f]

Haul out cost slip fees maintenance double everything and other issues. There are pros and cons on both .

[@SailHub]

Yup, couldn’t agree more!

[@user-gg6om8vp4f]

@SailHub I'm making plans to retire on a 51.4 Beneteau. I'm from Canada, and you can sail the three great lakes you can sail anything.

[@SailHub]

@user-gg6om8vp4f that’s a really amazing part of the world! We have plans to get there! Just gotta build a boat to make it happen first!

[@user-gg6om8vp4f]

@SailHub Be careful in Lake Superior. It can be deadly.

[@SailHub]

@user-gg6om8vp4f cheers👍

[@craigosborne3260]

Cats can run from a storm as it moves faster with a wind

[@SailHub]

Really? You’ve done that… most cruising cats don’t have speed like that as they are loaded up with weight and under canvassed to protect the rig. A 50’ mono would still exceed 10kn, especially when the wind is piling up to outrun a storm. On that note, the problem these days appears to be the un forecast surprises we have too, more people are getting caught out without any sign of a storm and they are hit by it .

[@vanessabryan786]

The rig of a cat can break away from the norms .. wing sails and biplane rigs .. see Wharram wingsails ..ketch rig cats like the Wharrams and DeVilliers Elsie are more solo heavy weather friendly. The other boat to look up is the bi wing cat Cool Change. Cats can get into shallow waters and very seldom sink unless holed . Composite cores cats .. can be completely flooded and still be permanently buoyant. The Broadblue Rapido 550 has a internal mast station with a French system called Up side up. As for Cat hulls Aluminium is good but Basalt and natural grown fibres may well be the answer . It’s ballistically superior and mechanically and temperature independent. Basalt should in all real terms be cheaper than even ordinary Glass GRP to produce and it’s way way greener. I have an idea how a hi latitude Explorer cat would shape up … using basalt and other green materials Clive Stainless steel Womble

[@SailHub]

Hey up Clive, Cheers for that, yeah.. more than aware of the Wharram’s and many a wild and crazy rig design too. The cat vs mono is such a personal debate - I think many thing as are transferable, including non sinking designs etc. As for basalt and natural fibres, you may know we are a big fan. - however cost to crest basaltex is insane due to the massive heat required. Still, if we could channel that heat… to say a heat power station as pioneered in Scandinavia it would be aweseome. Hi latitude basalt boats, interesting prospect. I think it could well work however why not stick with metal? What would the advantage be?

[@vanessabryan786]

@@SailHub Basalt is a very good insulator and doesn’t become brittle like metals can at very low temperatures it’s also only about 1/3 the mass of steel and probably about 2/5 of Al which will bleed heat away from the interior or your skin at a horrific rate if you touch it in protected. The same insulation goes in terms of heat protection and it has a very low coefficient of expansion compared to metals especially Aluminium. The other point is Al and Steel are both relatively finite resources that have other better uses. Especially Al as it’s grade one material for producing engines and motors as well as probably the ultimate battery cells . .. along with sulphur . Basalts actually been squeezed out of the earths crust in huge amounts all the time and as such it’s main use to date has been to make stone blocks or be crushed up and used as road hard core. … what a waste. Thankfully it makes brilliant rebar and re inforcement for concrete . Back in the boating world it’s also a electrical insulator very chemical resistant doesn’t scratch or gouge easy and even if it does it won’t wick water like glass and is safer to build with and work. It’s a bit like everyone using the same rig .. it’s popular because that’s what everyone’s done before and no body’s actually worked out that the other options might actually be better now. Like electric hydrofoils or even flying racing sail boats. ‘Who’da thought it. Read the NZ article going into the history and design features of Cool Change. And remember the designer was one of the first composite construction builders of Cats and trimarans Derick Kellsall who also sadly died about the same time as James Wharram but in his adopted home of NZ.

[@SailHub]

@vanessabryan786 hmmmm, plenty to think about there 😉 Thanks for that!

[@vanessabryan786]

@@SailHub kzbin.info/www/bejne/sGjXp5uibtd1hKcsi=ItQZZFb18txQ3-c6 I’m trying to navigate on an I phone and it’s pants 🙄

[@ke2delight]

It goes like this. If you don’t like being comfortable go with mono. If you don’t have money go with mono. If you like tiny spaces go with mono. Ta ta now.

[@SailHub]

Way to simplify it 👊🏼 although I’m sure there’s another cats out there that are affordable just as mono hulls hve cheaper options if you wanted, like the Wharrams etc.

[@ke2delight]

@@SailHubso a $300K used Wharram is considered affordable? I thought you’d say Gemini or something of that sort. I prefer to be connected to the real world.

[@SailHub]

300k is a hefty price for a Wharram. Any how, there’s tones of cheap cats out there, same as monos. We’re lucky these days, loads of options. I think it the main deciding factor is where you want to go. We will be starting a build for the arctic soon. I don’t fancy a cat, if I were going to the Med, I would buy a cat.

[@ke2delight]

@@SailHub sounds great but I wasn’t talking about your or my feelings about what we fancy or not, I am referring to facts. Cats are safer than monos, more space and comfort, and most of the time much faster. The only personal preference is how much you like to be shaken by the sea, everything else is an old news.

[@SailHub]

How bizarre