Celestion or Warehouse? Who comes closest to the ORIGINAL GREENBACK?

[@FantasticF113]

A huge thanks to Johan. This video may only appeal to a tiny fraction of KZbin viewers. However, those people (including myself) really appreciate the time and effort it takes to put together something like this. Take care, my friend!

[@RecordingLounge]

Johan - I come from the future. I’m here to tell you that after years of doing speaker shootouts and getting disappointed, you finally decided to embark on a huge but immensely satisfying journey to have your own custom speakers manufactured that truly recreate, for the first time ever, that 1971 T1221 Greenback tone. The JS-25 speaker was born. People cheered. Babies smiled. Couples embraced. Doves flew. And it sounded really good. Also, it’s very hot in the future.

[@ranchmanager9126]

Jenson? JS-25 speaker?, I live under a rock apparently.

[@CharlesWillisBonsai]

@@ranchmanager9126 Johan Segeborn 25 ?

[@gae7081]

Johan Segebornstion 25

[@JBGoode-zx7pp]

Ah yes, the venerable Segeborn JS-25, released in 2031.

[@averyadrian1534]

No the Ice Age came… As they predicted in the 70s… And we’re all dead… frozen

[@jcoulter43]

All sound pretty good, with different tonal character, but the 1970 original is just "that sound". Great stuff again Johan. God Bless and Rock on!

[@JohanSegeborn]

Have a great weekend, J! Cheers

[@karst41]

At 1:43 the 70 makes its “presence” known. Sorry to be a year late to the party.

[@ThracianDataThief]

First I thought it was the guitar...then I found out it was actually mostly in the amp - and there are MANY amps...then I found out that a big part of it is the speakers...then there are different speaker sizes...now I find out that even the "good ones" don't compare to the old ones. Being a guitarist should be classified as a mental disorder.

[@blakespurlock5322]

This made me laugh out loud

[@localneo-graphic4647]

I feel this, I just got my pre-rola for dirt cheap recently, and it happened to come with a random Green Beret that was strapped together. I had no idea they were even supposed to sound similar until I saw this video, and the funniest part is that the speaker I swapped out with the pre-rola... was a modern Celestion Greenback. Yea, being a guitarist feels that way, but at least I have a good speaker now.

[@qua7771]

Everything is a mental disorder.

[@Timbiscuit12]

It’s like the 5 stages of grief. Takes a while to realize the truth: Speakers, speakers, speakers! When I figured out how important that was I felt like I was starting big boy school as far as gear knowledge.

[@Andy_Yates]

Really impressed by the WGS here! It might not be vintage greenback exactly, but to my ears, I liked it more than the modern greenback. Thank you for these! Speaker swaps can certainly be tedious

[@JohanSegeborn]

Yeah the WGS was my pick out of the 2 new ones too.

[@jasonbone5121]

Totally agree.

[@metalupyourass9]

It's also about half the price!

[@bb_lz9790]

@@metalupyourass9 Or they were until Johan does a video on them and WGS figures that they can raise the price again. :D

[@Meiji1868]

Derek M I think he is using the Chinese GB not the UK Heritage as it’s wattage rating is different

[@zundap100]

Love that greenback from 1970, but Green Beret pleasantly surprised me.

[@Beavyo]

I love that you don't push your own opinions, it's just a straight up comparison - awesome work! Keep rocking!

[@BradsGuitarGarage]

They're all awesome, but that top-end roll off of the 70's greenback is gorgeous!

[@stevenmgyori3826]

Man I couldn't pick! All are great and very useable! You pick for Me Johan! Thanks for sharing brother! Be Well and have a great weekend!

[@nodamnedyouthndy]

Cheers Johan ! The content never gets old ! :)

[@gregfitzpatrick9326]

I was blown away by that green beret!

[@mgalbu]

More proof than nothing can get close to the originals. Love this type of videos the most!

[@JohanSegeborn]

Thanks! Glad to hear that

[@K1ckFlip1]

Scumback’s almost sound dead nuts on IMHO

[@Chad11491]

i just installed a pair of RI greenbacks in my 2x12 because it was the speaker used on all my favorite recordings. This video confirmed i'm not crazy. I haven't liked them at all, they make me feel like i've rolled all the presence off my amp, or like i'm listening to it from a different room. The 70's speaker here had much more OOMPH and treble and bass than the new speakers. I've got about 5 hours on mine now and just not enjoying them at all, I feel like i've lost all the punch in my amp. Glad you posted this video, I hear the same thing here that I dislike in my cab.

[@highdb1]

Great comparison! I would give the nod to the original, but the Warehouse sounds much better for more metallic tones. Much more clarity and overall balance from the Warehouse speaker.

[@d.p.3114]

Genuinely surprised, neither sounded like the 1970 speaker but when side by side with the newer Greenback, the WGS had less fizzy highs. In some clips, when not looking I could definitely hear a difference between the 2 but on others I couldn’t until those high notes were hit. Great video.

[@ocassionaljunkieforyou]

Maybe if you play the shit outta those modern speakers for 10 years they would get that vintage sound?

[@JohanSegeborn]

I actually compare 10 year old celestion reissues to the original here kzbin.info/www/bejne/d5-oZKeXa5xkhrM

[@Starch1b2c3d4a]

Johan Segeborn 😅

[@phill2840]

hang it on your looper pedal and a shitty amp that you don;t need anymore and let it play in your basement for 10 years and we will see

[@johnnybrown9581]

Phil L lmao Ed did that to his EVH 5150 to test it out he let the guitar feed back in front of it for a week on volume 10😂

[@RaymondSolo]

8 hours on a sign-wave generator should do the trick.

[@timleonard5597]

All were very close in sound. I finally closed my eyes and listened and to be honest I couldn't really tell which was which. I would peek every once in a while when I thought I heard a difference to see which one it was and often times it was the same speaker as the last time I peeked. The change in the playing made me think it was different. I would probably go with the Green Beret due to cost.

[@nickbenjamin6527]

Still want to hear you put an alnico cream through its paces Johan!!

[@TheDownCats]

That amp looks just like my fave '87 2203! That 1970 sure has a vocal quality to it that is hard to duplicate. Thanks for another great comparison!

[@darkcide1959]

The 1970 sound is "The Sound"..The Green Beret is going to be close after a few hours playing in and i think the reissue will warm up as well with time. All of them sound awesome.

[@yobhsiFehT]

The original has the most character, but man, WGS makes speakers that really SPEAK, ya know!?

[@jakewilliams5796]

The two newer ones sound very similar to me,the 1970 has that " old " speaker sound that can not be duplicated, Thank you Johan for maken great videos.

[@dustinscott5628]

I was hoping you'd make this video!!! You're the best man!

[@danielakerman8241]

Both the modern speakers were closer to each other than they were to the original Celestion. They both lack the mids and smooth top end of the 1970 speaker.

[@error8418]

Exactly! The new ones both sound too brittle. Maybe that's just because the vintage one has been broken in a lot lot more over time.

[@danielakerman8241]

@@error8418 It's not an issue of breaking in. Johan has shown the differences in another video using a 10 year old re-issue Greenback which was well broken in, and the tonal differences were still very evident. The differences are due to different spec of the speakers -- specifically, it seems, the paper cones that were in use pre-Rola era, compared to everything that came after. Even Greenbacks from 1974 or 1975 sound quite different to the pre-Rola versions.

[@davidtexmex1616]

Agreed.

[@The2ndProtectsTheRest]

Daniel Akerman i agree. I think Celestion might be doing this on purpose to get people to explore their newer speakers, like the Neo Creambacks.

[@williamdavis7274]

I agree but I wonder how much of that is due to the 70s speaker being "played in" more. Speakers tend to mellow and get warmer over time..... if the modern equivalents had seen as much playing time as the vintage spkr.. they might be closer in sound? maybe... :)

[@davidmurphy4419]

Thanks for such informative videos! I'm putting together a 1x12 and this video helped me decide on the green beret as best bang-for-buck.

[@RobCabreraCh]

Great video Johan! I've been super interested in the Warehouse stuff for a while, seeing as how much cheaper it is to Celestions. To me, the Warehouse sounded pretty good, not original Greenback good, but pretty good nonetheless. And, as always, the newer Greenbacks seem to have a much more modern sound to them, I think I don't like them as much as some others. Wouldn't mind watching a comparison like this but of the G12H30, and their modern renditions. Cheers man!

[@ctld5266]

The main difference we hear between vintage speaks and modern, is the frequency peak around 5,5-6khz. In the present case, by attenuating @5,8Khz by 8db both the reissue and the warehouse, get you much closer to the 70s greenback

[@DANTHETUBEMAN]

We are lucky to be able to get new speakers that good. They all sound good enough for me.

[@ericbouza854]

I thought the Warehouse speaker sounded the closest to the original Greenback. But none sounded as good as the original.

[@irishRocker1]

I didnt. I thought original was best, the new G12M was similar but more high end than mid and the wgs was simiilar with more high end but without the mids. seemed harsher.

[@thefilmpoets]

Man, speakers make so much more of a difference than preamp tubes.

[@pppaulie73]

I liked the 1970 the best. They all sounded good though. Great video!

[@stevehughes1510]

Thanks Johan, a very good A/B. I like the fullness of tone of the '70, it covers all the bases very well. Followed my the reissue and then the WGS which sounds just a little too fizzy to me.

[@oakromulo]

by having played the 201x Greenback rather extensively (only one I had, only one I managed to afford by buying one in the US and delivering to the hotel at the time) now I can finally have peace that "that weird compression in a certain frequency range there" was not just in my head, no matter what amp I played through it and later on in the first amps I built as well!

[@PadraicPlaugher]

Yes! Thank you for doing this! I’ve been looking into the green beret

[@imannonymous7707]

Yer channels great man....keep the faith Long Live Rock n Roll!

[@51dru]

The one thing your KZbin channel has really done for me is really opened my eyes to the importance of a quality speaker cabinet. The one question I have for you though can you take one of these really nice speaker cabinets and hook it up to a piece of crap amp and still get a usable sound out of it because of the speakers alone.

[@Nghilifa]

They all sound great. The actual 70s Greenback sounds more "open", and less "compressed" than the two reissues. I´m guessing that´s got something to do with the magnet in the speaker, the age of the cone & magnet and so forth. I guess the best way to compare them would be to go back in time, and compare them when the 70s greenback was actually brand new. Sadly that´s not possible, haha. Great job Johan!

[@lifesglorydead]

God, that first riff into the 1970 speaker instantly put a smile on my face in a way the others just could not. it takes me back to hearing Band of Gypsys for the first time (even though it was probably G12Hs on that album?)

[@estebanpuna4001]

awsomee!!!! I have WGS Green Beret and is true this sounds is MORTAL!!

[@vincenzoerriquenz2356]

The original Greenback has a growl on the low/ mids that others don' t have, to the point it seems louder than the others; surprisingly the Warehouse Green Beret is the closest to it, but not quite nailing it; but i must admit, i like all three of them!

[@davidcaro8217]

Good demo JS! All sound different and good with the oldie being best tone of the three most definitely!

[@johnnybrown9581]

WGS! This is what I’ve been waiting for!

[@Soundchain1]

Thanks for this review! Presuming the newer speakers are broken in: - The ‘70 was gorgeous (body, focus and dynamics) - The Warehouse lacked life - The newer Greenback sounded horrid to my ears (shrill)

[@klepetar]

i have the wgs in my cab and i am blown away how good it is..and i am crazy picky on sound..

[@bruceanderson8720]

Thanks Johan, the 1970 speaker sure was smooth. I think the WGS would be the speaker I would buy over the reissue greenback.

[@JohanSegeborn]

Hi Bruce, that one would be my pick too out of the new ones

[@jussioman]

Guys. Remember that Warehouse speakers don't try to make straight copies from the original Celestions. They capture the spirit of the old Celestions but add their own twist there which I love. Every WGS speaker I've tried are better than the chinese Celestions. But still nothing beats the originals. :) I've changed all chinese Celestions to WGS on my cabs and I'm really a fan of their et65 speaker.

[@Gebbinator]

Great test! Would have loved to hear the WGS Invader too. It should be a high powered greenback. Others say, that they sound closer to the vintage greenbacks than the green beret. Cheers

[@ess2586]

I noticed that the vintage Greenback has no doping....unlike the other two - I bet the doping has an effect on the tone.... ....I have a WGS Green Beret from when they first came out and I was not in love with it....Tonight, I just removed the doping and I am going to send a 60hz sound wave through it for a few hours and give it another try.....Thanks for the video!

[@vintagesound8112]

Hi Johan, Nice comparison, the 1970 was best then the reissue which was surprisingly good, the WGS I didn’t think was that great.

[@siegfriedwashburn3484]

Hi, Johan! I think, the Warehouse can be used in the case of lack the 70-s Celestion. The 2018 is to much high - if the equaliser was similar to 3 speakers, the 1970 is the best, and Warehouse SURPRISINGLY nice too. The new one is kind of "punk-rock-dist" - not bad, but not the big one. Have a nice weekend! Really good video - I was looking for the speakers that week, but still not sure about the sound. C.U. Zigfrid

[@JohanSegeborn]

Thanks Zigfrid! Have a nice weekend you too!

[@alanst.4417]

The original just rules, it's so rich and full! WGS second for me. I'd like to hear the Celestion heritage against them, even though it's a reissue of a different speaker, as you pointed out in an earlier vid on this topic, Johan. Rock on!

[@williambock1821]

I’m going with the green beret because it’s only $119 AFTER shipping! They all sound great.

[@rybones1311]

I was scrolling down to read the comments and everytime the best sounding one to my ears was heard..i scrolled up and it was ALWAYS the 1970 celestion. The others are good, but tonally, that 1970 just has "IT"

[@not_here934]

They all sound great but the new celestion seemed to have more high end, just a bit. Thanks for the comparison and demonstration

[@juno980]

If the Warehouse had a little more mids it'd be perfect. It's so crystal clear in its sound.

[@gtar5191]

It would be cool a 50 year old almost. 1970 greenback 25watter. Vs NOS 1970 25watter still wrapping paper same as new unbroken in and a third NOS 50 years old 12 hours broken in say a drum machine tested alongside the other two aforementioned. Keep up the great videos.

[@danielforsberg4018]

Nothing beats the old Greenbacks. But the WGS speakers are great at a reasonable price.

[@nbl95]

The Warehouse speaker is a lot more aggressive sounding and hyped in the highs. That's cool if that's what you like. Man nothing beats that original greenback though.

[@gr500music6]

I liked them all - which is to say I like the way you play them. Kudos to both Celestion and Warehouse. At least from what I can hear by the time they're bit-streamed to headphones, I think that, if you blew the 1970 on a session, an engineer could, with only minor tweaks, comp together a track sufficiently seamless that nobody would guess a speaker had been swapped out during the song.

[@johnwozniak9279]

The Greenback from 1970 has 50+ years of being played through; and the benefit of being [very] broken in. The result is an Apples to Apple Pie comparison. The crispy immature sounding drivers and cones on the newer speakers will never stack up to the smooth old daddy from 1970 with its complex voice full of well-practiced overtones. I mean... yeah, old daddy's better! But so what?! I'd like to hear this comparison after those new speakers have been played hard and put away wet for a few years on the road. Can't really judge much otherwise. That said, it's a good illustration of new vs broken-in! Also really enjoyed the guitar playing. Love that Les Paul. ;) Kind regards, Woz

[@DavideChiarello]

For me the WGS wins over the Celestion reissue here...the original GB is just in an other league. The WGS Invader could be another interesting contender...great stuff as usual!

[@JohanSegeborn]

Thanks Davide!

[@mryerp]

Davide Chiarello I agree with what you said here, and also would like to hear the Invader. Mainly cause I named that speaker the Invader in a contest lol! But as they weren’t in production at the time, I got to pick a different one as a prize. Warehouse makes good stuff!

[@DavideChiarello]

@@mryerp so you're the one who named the Invader, very cool! WGS makes great speakers indeed.

[@slideguitarist]

Thanks, Johan, for another great installment in the encyclopedia of tone. Vintage GB is best here. The newer speakers would probaably improve with break-in. I find Celestions generally benefit more from break-in than WGS. I am not a brand loyalist. Both companies make several comparable models. I prefer WGS for some, Celestion for others.

[@JohanSegeborn]

Thanks

[@garywordsworth9302]

Would be interesting to see an Eminence GB12 if you can get hold of one against an original Green back i love that speaker know its higher wattage at 50 watts but man its one woody sound Great comparison as always !

[@thomascoulter6121]

I agree.

[@bluescreentricks]

hello, you could compare the original greenback with the heritage, and "made in uk" greenbacks

[@JohanSegeborn]

Hi, I compare them here actually kzbin.info/www/bejne/eYaWaGaGZ7Flg9E

[@localneo-graphic4647]

This is hilarious, I just bought a pre-rola greenback on a really good deal, bought a random green speaker that was attached to it (so ppl wouldn't touch cones) that turned out to be a Green Beret without the sticker, and replaced my 2012 Greenback with the pre-rola. None of them sound similar AT ALL, but it's pretty funny seeing a video with all 3 of them.

[@frantisca]

Hey Johan, I have recently acquired a GreenBack 8 Ohm 10" made in UK in 2013 (30W) that sounds very close to the '70s original Greenback. Came as a (good) surprise as I wasn't expecting a tone that close to the original. These series T5646BWD seem to be a very good reissue !

[@LEgoiste]

As for the speakers, I’d be pleased with all 3, but the 1970 just has it all. Can you imagine being Johan’s neighbours. I bet they must be digging those sounds.

[@joschelei262]

It would have been nice if the Eminence Legend 128GB was included. I liked the sound of the original, it sounds a bit more vibrant and unbridled but the WGS sounded very well balanced and defined. I would love to hear a shootout between the WGS and the Legend GB as I'm currently deciding between the two.

[@thorinbane]

Emi, but I would suggest trying out a few of the jensen jet series. Some real surprises there.

[@ankerguitar]

Imo nothing beats a greenback. Its just that 70’s honk. You cant beat it 👍🏻👍🏻🔥🎵

[@gryzew]

There are a few sellers out there who do "artificial break in" on speakers, different approaches -- running signal through them for a time, or softening the glues. I can't remember the name now but there were guys that resell Celestions with their break in process applied on a fresh factory Celestion speaker and just their sticker/name over the Celestion label (I'll add a name if I find/recall it). You could do a test in the future on how does artificial breaking in affect a speaker tone vs. a stock new one vs. one broken in by actual guitar playing.

[@cflowers69]

Maaaaaaan, that tone at 1:16.... heavenly!

[@vinnieirvine1365]

I love the WGS speakers

[@ac81017]

The original sounded spot on, the other two like everything else that's produced in this modern day and age is inaccurate/bright and fizzy. Great demo as usual :-) Cheers

[@holywell5649]

Hi, thanks for this great comparison video. I think they all sound good, but agree with all the posters that the 1970 original sounds better than the modern ones. My 2c: I think the age and hours spent playing that old speaker make as much difference as any difference in construction. I think it is the same with acoustic guitars. When they are new they are tight and they grow and bloom as they age. And it keeps going for years. My 12 year old guitar is starting to sound more like that old greenback, saturated tones, full and rich. Those new greenbacks sound good, but, is in a tight, constricted way , a lot like the sound of a new Martin D28.

[@rangerdoc1029]

Verdict: all 3 sound amazing.

[@lousekoya1803]

I'm a PreRola guy but the Beret is really surprising and I guess it will get better with age !......Tx Johan !

[@JohanSegeborn]

Thanks Lou!

[@lousekoya1803]

@@JohanSegeborn Welcome Johan ,..our International Treasure !!!.....Haha!

[@cliftongardner4367]

That original is just dripping with tone. But I suspect that if you took the WGS and 2018 Celestion and played them for 50 years, they'd probably sound very similar. Of the two newer ones, WGS for rhythms, Celestion for leads. Check out the Eminence Private Jack, Johan! I think you'd really dig that greenback clone. Got one in my Marshall - tone for days!

[@davelip6992]

Really great comparison video thank you! I'm replacing the speakers in my Peavey classic 4 x 10 combo with either of these reissues. Borh sound great but which of the 2 do you feel has more low end chunk. The Celestion 10" GB is 98 HZ and the 10" WGS is 117 HZ as a reference. Thx Johan!

[@dougb5028]

Johan, thanks for all your work. I keep wondering if a large part of the difference between new and old is the result of use. Have your tried some long term break in of the new speakers? I am thinking weeks of sound loops at medium high volume..

[@reasonablyskeptical]

70 is a winner, i wonder if either of the newer ones would sound significantly different after a lot of heavy usage, the warehouse sounds like it needs to be pushed a lot more or something, thanks for the vid

[@Evowar05]

Hey Johann, I love your channel for a long time now. I know this is weird, but I wish I were in that room to hear you play through the amps and feel all that depth from the speakers in the room. From personal experience, I just can't ever capture the real feel of an amp so I can only imagine as to how it sounds/feels in there when you turn all those amps up.

[@profile_01]

It would be interesting to see how the much newer speaker(s) sound when they age a few decades

[@HiHello-ku1fl]

@Johan Segeborn I would love to see you get a hold of some Scumback speakers and compare them with their direct celestion counterparts including the vintage G12m.

[@PelicanIslandLabs]

The 'original' for the WIN! It sounds FANTABULOUS! The other two speakers sounded a bit brighter/harsher. Were they fully "broken in" ??? I thought the WGS was just a tiny bit closer to the original.

[@davelip6992]

As far as the two reissues did everyone find that the Green Beret was a little chunkier and a bit more low-end sounding than the celestion?

[@silverstone3228]

Yes yes yessss close up and great sound Love the 1970

[@rveurope]

Not dull at all..the 70th for me... Awesome!👍 ( may be a G12 H 55 Greenback as a backup reference would had been cool)

[@PorchBass]

The new ones have a lot more high mid! Are they new? They might need breaking in. Also that mic position seemed to emphasise a different high end coming from the dust caps.... 50 years of dust and sweaty clubs will probably calm down that papery hiss. Thanks for your great vid

[@chrisschut4533]

Its funny how the 2018 Greenback reminds me a little of the Use Your Illusion guitar tone, which is of course impossible, but very interesting!! :)

[@lowqualityguitarvideos]

that 1970 speaker sure is creammmymyyy

[@TheToneLounge]

The 1970 had a more pleasing high end, and had more “punch” in the low mids. They all sounded great and useable, but the 1970 has my vote.

[@dyamariv3628]

Wow, didn't expect that much of a difference but the 70 just has that sound. Both modern Greenbacks sounded more fizzy and compressed to me. The 70 was more open and more midrange. Love the 70 personally, the others sounded good but just not what I expected.

[@noahzark7975]

1970 hands down!! That sound!!

[@charliegreer2317]

They all sounds amazing. Mount all 3 in a cab....

[@robertstan2349]

i have a set of celestion greenbacks from '04 that sound very close to the 70's example you have. they've really mellowed with age (or maybe my hearing has lol). i think these things just have to get really played in

[@joeytruelove]

One thing you cannot hear with the WGS is that it's a few dBs louder and with a higher anisotrophy is more focussed in the midrange, making the crunch stand out more. Coming to think about it I find that the 50W WGS Invader being fuller sounding does come closer to the '70 G12M here.

[@RodneyWallaceDynamoC]

Yeah, you can't beat the classic, still undefeated 👏

[@dominikpohli2381]

if you by a new one which woud you prefer the celesion reissue or the wgs green beret. i also had great speaker inspiration for you the wgs et65 it nails the g12-65 tones from the 80s

[@michaelpietzsch]

0:51 1970 Celestion G12M25 1:00 2018 Warehoues WGS GreenBeret 1:03 2018 Celestion G12M25

[@chadvitale1567]

The warehouse is almost identical to the 2018 Greenback, but has less bass than the 1970. Great speakers, all of them.