The Babylonian Captivity

Рет қаралды 41,771

Ай бұрын

The fall of Jerusalem and the destruction of Solomon’s Temple in 587 BCE ended the First Temple Period of ancient Israelite religion. The prophet Jeremiah and remnants of the army fled to Egypt, while the royal family and members of the nobility were taken captive in Babylon. That enforced exile continued until the Persian Empire conquered the Babylonians in 539 BCE and allowed the exiles to return to rebuild Jerusalem (under Persian rule). John Hamer of Toronto Centre Place will explore this period, which saw the beginnings of diaspora Judaism and its many lasting legacies including its impact on the development of the Bible.
Join the livestream to participate in the discussion and to ask questions to our lecturer during the Q&A.
Other topics covered in this lecture include:
Second Temple Judaism
Neo-Babylonian Empire
Nebuchadnezzar II
Diaspora Judaism
Elephantine Jewish Community
Babylonian Exile
Deportation in the ancient world
People of the land
Lost Tribes
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Пікірлер: 108

@constancetorseth6648 Ай бұрын

I love listening to John's lectures. It's like having a Mr. Rogers for grown-ups.

@cpamacjd Ай бұрын

Good one.

@notstayinsdowns Ай бұрын

That's sad because he repeats the nonsense of atheists.

@sambigg4620 Ай бұрын

No Doubt John is becoming one of my favorite KZbinrs

@lborge1411 14 күн бұрын

Bell hooks

@sambigg4620 Ай бұрын

Love your non-biased approach to Judaism and Christianity❤👍

@GodwardPodcast Ай бұрын

John is the best teacher on the internet now.

@cpamacjd Ай бұрын

Best lectures on youtube, by far, thank you

@sambigg4620 Ай бұрын

Keep them coming John love all your content

@garymensurati1631 Ай бұрын

Glad you're back John ! Blessings to all ❤

@johannesrosenbaum Ай бұрын

Thanks for your detailed presentation of the topics.

@denaisaacthiswasgreat.thum7598 Ай бұрын

I am so glad I found you.❤

@laurentv.6631 Ай бұрын

Thanks for this lecture :) Looking forward to the next one on the Samaritans ! :)

@ubertrashcat 17 күн бұрын

My two favorite teachers on KZbin are John Hamer and John Vervaeke, both from Toronto!

@ready1fire1aim1 Ай бұрын

How distinguishing between the pre-Babylonian captivity definitions of El (God) and Elohim (sons/beings of El) versus the post-captivity syncretized definitions could resolve contradictions and cast the Yahweh figure of Genesis 2-3 in a very different light from the transcendent Elohim portrayed in Genesis 1. Pre-Captivity Definitions: In this framework, the supreme creator deity is simply referred to as El - the Most High God. The Elohim are understood as a pantheon or "sons of El" - lesser divine beings subordinate to El. This aligns with ancient Canaanite and older Israelite religious conceptions. Under these definitions, the Genesis 1 account would refer to the transcendent El as the prime creator, with the Elohim (plural) potentially being celestial forces/angels enacting aspects of the creation. The Ruach Elohim (Spirit/Breath of the divine beings) hovering over the primordial waters connects to surviving traces of this polytheistic worldview. Crucially, this allows one to separate the Elohim of Genesis 1 from the distinct Yahweh Elohim first appearing in Genesis 2 to form man from the dust. Based on references like Deuteronomy 32:8-9, the pre-captivity perspective viewed Yahweh as one of the sons of El (an Elohim) rather than conflating him with El itself. This de-syncretization casts Yahweh as a separate, lesser, more anthropomorphic deity associated with the ancient Israelites - perhaps retained from their Canaanite heritage. His behavior and commandments in Genesis 2-3 and elsewhere in the Torah would then represent the teachings of this tribal desert deity, not the supreme metaphysical creator El. The Garden Scenario Reframed From this vantage point, the events of Genesis 2-3 can be interpreted not as ordained by the most high El creator, but rather as humanity's initial tragic entrapment by the lesser devolved being Yahweh within his constructed realm of mortality, suffering, and cosmic privation. Yahweh's wrathful conduct, his placing of humans under a yoke of commandments, his expulsion from Eden's paradisiacal environment, and the subsequent violent legacy of his covenants and laws all derive from the subjugating delusions and stunted, anthropocentric conception of this finite Elohim - not the infinite plenitude of the supreme El. Contradictions Resolved Separating El from Yahweh along the pre-captivity definitional lines could resolve contradictions in several important ways: 1) It distinguishes the transcendent, metaphysically profound cosmic creator portrayed in Genesis 1 from the all-too-human tribal deity of the remaining Torah material. 2) It allows for a reframing of the Torah's teachings around blood sacrifice, ethnic conflicts, law codes, etc. as the cultural mythological traditions of ancient Israelite history rather than attributed to the most high El itself. 3) It creates space for the Christ figure of the New Testament to represent a re-emergence of the supreme El's sovereignty and universal spiritual path - overriding the outdated covenants, ethnic segregations, and violent subjugations prescribed by the lesser Yahweh consciousness. 4) Humanity's existential struggling, our proclivity towards violence/evil, and our fundamental state of cosmic imprisonment can be metaphysically associated with the fallout of our ancient reunion from Yahweh's corrupted influence rather than the designs of the supreme El consciousness. 5) Competing depictions of the divine across different books (wrathful/peaceful, loving/cruel, spiritual/legalistic) can be added to different nodes of the El vs. Yahweh consciousness schisms. While still requiring some nuanced interpretation, this delineation allows for a coherent reintegration of Old and New Testament perspectives under a broader metaphysical framework. It preserves the universal spiritual integrity of the highest Creator from the cultural mythological contexts surrounding the more finite tribal deity Yahweh. By embracing the pre-syncretized definitions and recognizing the conflation of El and Yahweh as a later imposition, one can reconnect with deep streams of ancient Hebrew theological diversity. This presents an intellectually robust path for understanding the unified trajectory of the biblical texts as exploring a single universetheological consciousness's reassertion over more contingent, anthropomorphized deviations and exiles.

@harveywabbit9541 Ай бұрын

El aka God is Jupiter (IU Piter) and Elohim is the period when the Ram (Aries) is in conjunction with the sun. Generally this is seven months which begin at the spring equinox. The signs are Aries thru Libra (Arc of the covenant) and are favored over the winter season of Scorpio thru Pisces. See Rev. 9.5., where this terrible five is led by the scorpion (Scorpio constellation). Scorpio, is called Satan, Father of Lies and he leads Sagittarius thru Pisces.

@evelynstarshine8561 Ай бұрын

give the influence on Juadism of the captivity, how it comes up in almost any subject of OT scholarship it always surprises me how short it was

@harveywabbit9541 Ай бұрын

Israel is a compound of Isra (phallus) and el (god). We could say that the 12 tribes are 12 phalluses or stones. Remember the upright stone (phallus) that Jacob (mythical character) anointed with oil (semen) and wine (passion)? See Isaiah 9.14, where Israel (summer) is described as having the head of the noble/royal lion (Leo) and tail of the liar (Scorpio). The palm frond is Virgo and the Reed (water plant) is Libra. The four signs in Isaiah 9.14, are the four "sons" of Ham. They are also the first four labors of Hercules.

@bothewolf3466 Ай бұрын

Ah yes, John, that is called the Chart-Maker, i know his lessons well.

@while_coyote Ай бұрын

I think it's so crazy they automatically believed this guy found an ancient book of totally brand new laws they'd never heard of without once considering that maybe he just made them up himself.

@denaisaacthiswasgreat.thum7598 Ай бұрын

Didn't Joseph Smith find something like that?

@Exjewatlarge Ай бұрын

Who says anyone actually believed it at the time? Archaeology shows no evidence of widespread Torah observance prior to 200 BCE (Yonatan Adler, “The Origins of Judaism”)

@while_coyote Ай бұрын

@@Exjewatlarge Even if it's just a story with no basis in reality, I still find pretty strange to not show the people in the story being skeptical and then god doing some miracle or something to somehow "prove" the documents are authentic.

@jasonbishop5345 Ай бұрын

@@Exjewatlargethank you for sharing this. I hadn't heard this before

@Exjewatlarge Ай бұрын

@@jasonbishop5345 it’s very recently published

@cmk1964 Ай бұрын

Little did the psalmist know that he was writing lyrics for Boney M.

@2lefThumbs Ай бұрын

Beat me to it!

@cecileroy557 15 күн бұрын

I am enjoying this so much!! I'm so happy I found you! Subbed - of course!!

@johnobtrains Ай бұрын

So excited.

@DianaStevens42 Ай бұрын

I’m glad he’s reading slower. He used to read with an affect like he thought he needed to read fast because everybody already knows what he’s reading.

@peterhendriks4736 Ай бұрын

Exile/diaspora seems a recurring theme in the Jewish tradition: Egypt, Babylon and the Roman diaspora. New York is like the new Babylon. The divine right to reclaim the old land is still affecting the world. How bizarre.

@notsocrates9529 Ай бұрын

Bizarre how multiple cultures spanning over a couple millenniums all have similar tales about their behavior.

@harveywabbit9541 Ай бұрын

@@notsocrates9529 The myths get passed around. The Babylon and Egyptian captivities are annual events and is simply the winter season of five months. See Rev. 9.5, where these five months of winter are led by the scorpion (Scorpio constellation). Babel is two words of bab (gate) and el (god). Babylon or Babylon = gate of the sun god. By the time that Judaism and Christianity were invented, el had become Jupiter (properly IU Piter or IU Pater.) Solomon is simply sun-sun-sun. The building of the temple of Solomon is an annual event and should not be considered as "historical." Regarding the "historical Israel".... Israel is a compound of Isra (Phallus) and el (god). We could say phallus of Jupiter. The bible is hugely Phallic and this should be explained to all students..

@thinking7667 Ай бұрын

Because God promised the Israelites the land, but the promise was conditional. And when they didn't hold up their end of the bargain, they were exiled or scattered among the Nations. There are Orthodox Jews who believe they should still be living among the Nations now because they are supposed to be scattered instead of an official state

@peterhendriks4736 Ай бұрын

@@thinking7667 Fair enough

@robertcain3426 15 күн бұрын

@@harveywabbit9541What were the phalluses of Egypt? That were the obelisks topped with the Ben Ben (seed - semen) stone.

@craigfairweather3401 Ай бұрын

Another inspiration for Revelation to speak of Har Megidddo is that after 70 CE the Romans may have built a legionnaire camp not far the tell there. Beginning around the time Revelation may have appeared, in the 90s CE. Later it was certainly called Legio. It became a major city after the Bar Kochba rebellion 60 years later. The army there could easily strike both Galilee and the plain of Caesarea Maritima as needed.

@andrewstehlik3917 Ай бұрын

Finding of the scroll of the Law in the Temple is most likely a literary fiction, a back projection from the Persian times.

@andrewsuryali8540 Ай бұрын

Nah. This is a channel belonging to a Mormon church. The people running it are literally modern-day evidence that this sort of thing happens all the time. ☺ Hilkiah was just his era's Joseph Smith.

@nosuchthing8 21 күн бұрын

This gives more texture to the scene where the hobbits were asked to sing when faramir was sent out to die.

@andrewsmith9528 Ай бұрын

Tried a couple of times to “like” this video (i.e., thumbs up), but KZbin posted an error: “Resource has been exhausted (e.g. check quota).” and blocked my “like”.

@markhgoodman Ай бұрын

Same here.

@RealDevastatia Ай бұрын

It worked for me. I got here after the livestream ended though.

@austinhertell5634 Ай бұрын

Heck yea brother

@JordanHiensberg Ай бұрын

Egypt was under Kushitic Kings from 744-656 B.C.E. In 720 BCE the Kushites went to Jerusalem to kick out the Assyrians.

@harveywabbit9541 Ай бұрын

Which Jerusalem are you speaking of. The two Jerusalems are the solstices. The winter solstice = the handmaid and the summer solstice = the free woman. Like in Ishmael and Isaac who are allegorical. Gal. 4.

@longcastle4863 16 күн бұрын

The centralization of all Yahweh worship to Jerusalem seems terribly unpractical. Why was it done?

@jamiegallier2106 Ай бұрын

❤

@johnobtrains Ай бұрын

Thanks!

@centre-place Ай бұрын

Thank you for supporting the channel!

@dervinnaidoo9810 Ай бұрын

Is the Old Testament about Jews or Hebrews??

@ronjohnson4566 Ай бұрын

i found the overall talk very difficult to follow. I kept saying to myself when? or date please? at particular times during the talk. But, what I'm really interested in is if the conquering Babylonians took the elites, rulers, and literate back to Babylon, destroyed the temple, (and I presume all the scrolls, and left only the herders and vine trimmers (I understand you must prune the vines to make them produce grapes and goats need to be cared for). That would destroy any history/bible/scholarship the hebrews would have had. I can't imagine their captors would allow the hebrews to sliept the OT back to Babylon. So, if they did destroy everything the hebrews had nothing but memories after 80 years as subjects to the Babylonians. And, the levant in general was a backwater with no water. First the Egyptians conquered the levant then the Hititites, then the Egyptians again (who knows how many times), then the Assyrians, other Mesopotamian groups, then Greeks, the Romans, the Ottomans, etc. would have conquered and razed the temples, libraries and schools to the ground. This would have obliterated any OT or any other book the hebrews may have had. How in anyone's world could anyone call the bible, "the word of god?"

@pebystroll Ай бұрын

Hey man great questions! I have thought many of these myself, some of modern biblical scholarship tries to find this out. There is a fantastic series on the Stanford KZbin page by Christine Hayes called " Introduction to the old testament" which I totally recommend. There is another academic called Dan McClellan ( also on youtube)who also has depths of knowledge about the O.T, and then a slightly more Niche channel called Esoterica (most of it is about different types of esotericism, but has great videos covering Old Testament history.

@pebystroll Ай бұрын

And in regards to your last sentence, I suppose that's why humans have been trying to find out and interact with for 100s of years now

@thinking7667 Ай бұрын

Do you know this for a fact or are you just assuming that each culture obliterated any and all texts?

@langreeves6419 Ай бұрын

Rarely does everything get obliterated. And... The people at the time believed each land area had its own god. There is a story preserved about the people left in the land being attacked by wild animals. This was probably cause of the exodus of the local government, but the people took it to be divine retribution for not worshipping the local god. So they got some priests to show them how to make the local god happy. Like a lot of ancient stories, not sure of historical accuracy.

@ronjohnson4566 Ай бұрын

@@thinking7667 No, but all the ones that were obliterated, we know for sure, they were completely destroyed. Trust me the cat in the box is really dead now.

@mikeettinger7132 Ай бұрын

Aren't some saying that the so-called fake Moses script might have been the book Josiah found?

@HumanBeanbag 9 күн бұрын

Sublime does a song about this

@jccklh 8 күн бұрын

And Bob Marley. Can’t stop hearing it.

@Stadtpark90 Ай бұрын

27:46 Whenever I encounter „sacrifice of the firstborn“, I think this relates to the lost civilization and the cataclysm. It would be magical thinking to make a deal with fate: to avoid another catastrophe by „freely“ sacrificing. But it also serves as a reminder of the civilization shattering event and the population bottleneck that likely accompanied it. Same with the commandment to be fruitful and repopulate the world: sounds like a good idea post-cataclysm to ensure the survival of humanity. I even think that Christianity as a whole in symbolically celebrating (and re-enacting in Passion plays) something akin to the „last human sacrifice“ (Christ), and the celebration of Resurrection unknowingly does the same: baptism (symbolically drowning the old Adam = Luther = re-enacting the flood on a personal level), painting the Ashen cross on your forehead on Ash Wednesday… - to me it’s all the same: pointing to the cataclysm and burning and ruin of the world and loss of civilization, and then subsequently our thankfulness for the resurrection of civilization, the survival of man. What else could religion be: upholding the deal by all our little sacrifices to work together and continually (re-)construct civilization and our faith in it with every new generation: I think form follows function. There’s echoes of the same pattern everywhere (e.g. the symbol for the Earth in astronomy became the circle with the cross; Earth was literally in the cosmic crosshairs so to speak; the cross marks the spot (as Randall Carlson says)), because it happened at the birth of our current age, of recorded and reconstructed „history“ of civilization.

@meditativehypnosen-dr.ho-oq7zq Ай бұрын

Sounding true to you does not make it true.

@ansfridaeyowulfsdottir8095 Ай бұрын

No one ever sings the last verse of that _"Reebahs of Babylon"_ song. {:o:O:}

@thli8472 Ай бұрын

Moore Cross than whom?

@dallaskenn Ай бұрын

38:00 Talk about tacky apologetics.

@BPTacticalSovereignty Ай бұрын

For a Mormon he's good.

@FU2H8R Ай бұрын

Because of this captivity. The captured Jewish priests had access to Babylonian texts. They inserted into the Bible. People in general have no idea the actual picture. Christianity was formed in Antioch not Jerusalem. The Jewish placed themselves in the Bible as the chosen ones. This was not the case originally. The actual Israelites are not the Jewish people.

@harveywabbit9541 Ай бұрын

@thinking7667 Ай бұрын

How did they place themselves in the Bible?

@FU2H8R Ай бұрын

@@thinking7667 simple. Placed themselves as the chosen ones. But never were though.

@FU2H8R Ай бұрын

@@thinking7667 they are not the Israelites. We are however the Amerites of in America. “Atlantis”

@Exjewatlarge Ай бұрын

Ok, say it with me: “Jehoahaz” is “ye-HO-a-CHAZ” (with a guttural “ch” sound). As a Hebrew speaker, these Romanizations of Hebrew names can be grating. 😬

@user-ze7kj2ux6j Ай бұрын

Kushites Egypt and Ruah river fiji Tanganyika Islands pacific fiji

@sebolddaniel Ай бұрын

I love that funky song about Babylon which was maybe done by an African group of maybe black folk. Or maybe they were Caribbeans.

@2lefThumbs Ай бұрын

Boney M? German, essentially, but the mime people were mainly Caribbean I think (they were a precursor to Milli Vanilli, with the same music maker using them as a front)

@dbarker7794 Ай бұрын

A few reggae musicians have recorded that song. I think Jimmy Cliff does a version of it. Toots and the Maytals too. Great song.

@jounik8980 Ай бұрын

Boney m song

@user-ze7kj2ux6j Ай бұрын

1st century cushites from Ethiopia settle in Tanganyika 10th century AD about this time the fable of fijian from Tanganyika ( Chronological History man in Tanganyika ) It fable that about this the powerful chief Lutunasobasoba and his people followed the trade cross the Indian Ocean travelling south east Asia settled Fiji

@user-ze7kj2ux6j Ай бұрын

ISAIAH 11 : 11

@user-ze7kj2ux6j Ай бұрын

Grandfather ancient history brought circumcision culture tradition custom, fiji Islands pacific

@longcastle4863 16 күн бұрын

Honestly, Yahweh sounds like an abusive parent the children keep making excuses for. Yes, he allowed us to be destroyed as a Nation, but that is because this one king made him mad a long long time ago.. Who can really blame the Israelites for seeking other Gods?

@MrAustrokiwi Ай бұрын

An oft repeated assumption is made in this lecture; that the elite, only, were literate. Were they really , or were the scribes slaves, who wrote (and corrected/improved) what was dictated to them. IMO its an important question as it means that the "words" were shaped by people who are largely invisible to us today.

@andrewsuryali8540 Ай бұрын

While slavery of a scribal class was indeed very common, all the evidence we have from ancient history show it to have been the result of conquest. That is, the scribes ended up as slaves because they were elites from a group defeated and subordinated by the ruling empire. Basically, in the ancient world before Hellenism slave-scribes usually started out as someone else's elites. In the case of Judah, they were pretty low down the ladder in the conquest hierarchy, so it wasn't likely for them to have had slave-scribes of their own. However, the entrance of Mesopotamian ideas into their belief system may have been the result of their elite scribes serving as the Babylonians' slaves.