Cerastus Knight Castigator + Acheron - How Strong Are they In Game? Imperial and Chaos Knights Units

[@skullyairsoft80]

I have a resin Acheron I use despite the poor rules. Rule of cool > meta imo

[@neilkirkley1500]

All the this ∆ , I couldn't give a monkey's if it's rules aren't as good as any of the other knights, it's got a fucking massive flamer and a knight sized chainfist, and it looks rad as fuck, sold.

[@cousinzeke4888]

The correct way to play.

[@jerseyse410]

I'm pre-ordering both to add to my Chaos Knights and I don't care if the rules aren't all that great, I'm going to chaosify the crap out of it and enjoy it anyways

[@CruentusMessor]

Remember what GW did to the rest of the Horus Heresy range

[@tinkertoiler744]

Do tell

[@inescarroll2364]

Made legends immediately @@tinkertoiler744

[@BloodyArchangelus]

Betrayed.

[@jonnybarba119]

To be fair they specifically said that knights and custodies models were safe, which is understandable since they have around 5 models between them.

[@RSBurgener]

"Fool me once, shame on - shame on you. Fool me - you can't get fooled again." -George W. Bush

[@CustodialNinja]

The Knight range is perhaps the coolest out of any army in 40k... and the GW rules team is hell bent of keeping anyone from using most of it in play.

[@christopherrutterford5829]

Don't forget certain vocal members of the community determined to ban or remove them from the game. Cause wa wa I can't auto win against them. Or wa wa my cheap unit can't auto wipe them in melee anymore

[@nischal711]

​@@christopherrutterford5829who is this certain member

[@CustodialNinja]

The first month of 10th there was such a wave of fearmongering and complaints. And yeah, Knights did well... but were still only in the same zone as Custodes. The only change they really needed was the towering update for quality of play/fun considerations. In terms of competitive matchups Knights are beatable on points even if you can't bring down the big ones, a situation that fits the fantasy for most factions. One player gets stompy robots of incredible power, striding across the battlefield with bad intentions. The other gets to find victory through mission play or epic explosions, despite facing these behemoths of steel. What's really the problem here?

[@WilhelmScreamer]

It would be bad for the game if Knights were the strongest way to play. A full force of Knights cheats the game hard.

[@XAVR_]

​@@WilhelmScreamer"A full force of knights cheats the game hard" L take. Skill issue.

[@merengueatang4]

The castigator looks super cool, I kinda want one.

[@PeteOfDarkness]

Just be prepared for what 90% scale modelers complain - half of parts are make parts that you probably want to glue (in case of tanks it's treads, in Knights it's ammo belt/fuel pipe).

[@steweygrrr]

Getting that Castigator, I don't care how good it is. It shall become my 40k version of Guts.

[@BloodyArchangelus]

Seth?

[@steweygrrr]

@@BloodyArchangelus Seth is Space Jason Statham to me. The Castigator however has the sword and rapid fire gun arm and is designed to break a great many faces at once.

[@jeffreywelch9360]

I can’t wait to play it with my new Lancer.

[@dote9079]

I wish the castigator's sword was bigger, it looks way too small to me at the moment, especially as it cant touch the ground really

[@DamienJones77]

I guess it's more like a short sword, like a gladius, or even just a dagger. It'd be quite cool if it were reversible, as in, held the opposite way around and looks like a preying mantis' talon!

[@namewastaken360]

I think it's supposed to project an energy blade, that's why it has holes like the Lancer's shield.

[@IRCannonFodder]

Castigator feels more well rounded, and the Acheron more situational. I am still a casual, but feels like Acheron could be replaced with most any other of the bigger knights.

[@EvilBob907]

I’ll be pre-ordering the Castigator tomorrow

[@richarddixon1450]

Why didnt GW just change titanic overwatch to 2 CP ?! So stupid to walk out in front of a giant knight and knowing fine well youll be ok. So stupid. The threat should still be there.

[@BloodyArchangelus]

They want to sell YOU THE CODEX OF knights xD

[@jeffreywelch9360]

I think overwatch need to just go back to on the charge.

[@richarddixon1450]

@jeffreywelch9360 respectfully disagree. I little move agency in your opponents turn is great. One of 40ks biggest issues is the fact at an entire army can act before the other does. With impunity. Least one overwatch gives them something to think about. 10th edition has been good for having more interactions in your opponents turn. I dont like them removing some of it. Goes against what they intended when they designed this rule set.

[@feliorserapheel6539]

Amazing analysis. I would have missed some things and not know quite a few others. Thanks And also: Comments for the Comment God

[@Pers0n97]

2D6 attacks of D2 on a giant flamer that's meant to be the whole point of that knight... Wtf is GW thinking?!

[@timothyharnedy4495]

I'd be tempted by the Castigator regardless of the rules. A sword longer than a Rhino? Yes, please!

[@Mittens_Gaming]

The sword just looks so cool, as does the bolter!

[@equos5060]

I wanted to buy one of each. Then I remembered what they did to other Heresy models with 40k rules. Not this time.

[@jasonpeacock9735]

Have you noticed that Knights have HH and 40k kits already? At worst, you can expect them to rerelease this kit when the 40k codex comes out with 40k appropriate decals.

[@Mr_Waffle.]

Yep, far too risky when they're literally marketed and packaged as HH models, with HH transfer sheets inside that have no connection to 40k. The instructions are even the same black and white low quality that HH get instead of colourful 40k ones. Only a matter of time for them to hit Legends

[@bombastic1721]

Very informative video as always, will you be covering the Cerastus Knight Atrapos for 10th edition? I dont think it will be getting a plastic kit anytime soon

[@jasonpeacock9735]

It’s going to be interesting to see how long it takes them to release a resin conversion kit for the Atropos on the new plastic frames.

[@bombastic1721]

@@jasonpeacock9735 Honestly I wouldn't even complain, I like the mechanicum knights and I would be fine with just resin up grades combines with the plastic frame

[@khornebread4802]

Knights eatin' good this edition.

[@lynx-alpha2073]

in terms of rules we are being beaten into the ground

[@gkiyo]

Definitely a "fool me twice, shame on me" situation if you're buying one of these for 40k

[@merengueatang4]

Is it though? If they weren't being continued for long, they wouldn't have kept them in the game from the first purge. Likewise with the custodes models, which also prove that it's probably not to just drive sales, as fw custodes seem very unlikely to be updated to plastic anytime soon, and they would've been discontinued along with the rest if keeping knights around was just to move stock.

[@AlunDowdeswell]

surely the change to plastic, and THEN moving it to legends (like the leviathan, kratos, contemptor etc) proves sales is EXACTLY all they're interested in. If they did it in the last purge, they'll miss all the money people will spend on these plastic kits, only for that money to be wasted because they'll move it to legends & HH only. Despicable company honestly@@merengueatang4

[@facemite]

​@@merengueatang4multiple KZbinrs already did videos talking about how gw confirmed that the lancer is going into legends why wouldn't these knights as well

[@chrisyoung5499]

Can you link any of these KZbin channels? @@facemite

[@jasonpeacock9735]

@@facemitesince they already have separate HH and 40k boxes for the Questoris and Armiger kits, why would these be any different? We can likely expect a 40k rerelease for these when the new codex comes out.

[@leestride2285]

Element games have got throught their initial amount and are not expecting a restock until February which is madness.

[@hrvojegrgic-akovic5552]

Beware HH kits in 40k unless you play both. After what they did to legend the new HH range, and the stuff that will be legended, like relic terminators, I'd never buy a HH box no matter how good the rules, unless I was going into that system or wanted a painting project

[@jasonpeacock9735]

That’s going to be a bad omen for people since the Questoris and Armiger Knights have HH boxes. Those going to Legends too?

[@hrvojegrgic-akovic5552]

@@jasonpeacock9735 no idea, but im certainly not taking chances

[@Mr_Waffle.]

@@jasonpeacock9735 Those are Available to Order off the GW website, they are not normal commercial products like this one. They could be removed at any time from HH, plenty of available to order kits have been killed off in the past year.

[@Spycrab699]

​@jasonpeacock9735 the armiger models are exactly the same only difference is the transfer sheet and the questoris knight is the same I think just a different transfer sheet

[@jasonpeacock9735]

@@Spycrab699 that’s the point. When the next 40k Knights codex is released, we’re likely to see the Cerastus models released in 40k branded boxes with 40k relevant transfers.

[@Mittens_Gaming]

It seems like the flame cannon should be 3d6+3 or 4d6, not just 2d6. Or it should cost about 300 points. Its main gun kind of sucks.

[@ca11rl77]

2 separate models is too much for me right now. And there is the possibility "oh these are HH only now" still looming like the rest of the plastic HH

[@gregoryshinn9805]

Thanks for the video

[@WampaStompas]

I just built/painted a warden right before then announced this was coming to plastic. As much as I love the model I can’t justify two that have almost the same points costs and perform the same role of anti infantry 😢

[@RedCometNurse]

I won't be buying one until I see their rules inside the codex.

[@Saltism1]

I use the Castigator in my CK army with 6 brigands and 4 Karnivores

[@Saltism1]

Just played against GK and won 83-81. Castigator giving sustatined hits out is really good, and when taking up some brigands up the centre giving 3-4 Brigands sustained hits each turn until the big knight is dead is worth it. It can also do a fair bit of damage in melee.

[@pepegon-zals7606]

It’s such a shame. I love the look of the Acheron, it fits so well with Chaos Knights lore wise and would be a fun conversion but it’s just not good lol. But also who cares, it’s cool

[@theomen49]

I tried the chaos castigator for a few games, i think that the desecrator is a better pick overall. You can always use the sustained hits strats but you'll get re-roll 1's which i rate higher than sustained hits personally.

[@stupidlizard3467]

Or you could run both and have the strongest Brigands known to man

[@PeteOfDarkness]

Ok, is it me or Castigator Sword (and to lesser extent Lancer's shield) remind me of OG snow Bionicle (Kopaka)? Anyway I feel like Castigator may be best out of three, but we all wait for Atropos.

[@jumpstrart7]

Big gun go BRRR!

[@MrHoneuma]

Acheron feels doa frankly after the rules updates. It could've at least still been worth it for Chaos if you could use A Long Leash, but it specifies an Abhorrent Knight. It's overcosted, it's shooting was gutted by the changes, especially the Overwatch one, and other Knights are better at melee. The only thing it does really is the battle shock test, and that's frankly not good enough. I can't personally see a scenario where I'd take that over the Desecrator or the Lancer. -1 to hit in and enemy unit and sustained hits, or giving Brigands assault, free Tank Shock on the Lancer, and devastating melee hitting on 2s from the lancer as well.

[@BloodyArchangelus]

I want to buy proper armored core model and field it like small titan or a knight. Would be fun to watch. After ac 6 here are even warp weapons xd

[@milliman4]

Ok now I want one

[@asenaruu8361]

can these be used in new 40k or only in HH?

[@Wineblood]

It's a shame the Acheron seems to be framed as an anti infantry unit but the Castigator does a better job. Bumping the attacks to 3D6 sounds fair, but maybe giving it something like anti-infantry.

[@bigboybastard7162]

Either that, or give the chain fist anti vehicle. Im surprised he didnt mention that considering every other chainfist has it. Yeah, with strength 14 it doesnt need it really, but it would still be nice for something a little extra

[@AfroChef]

Ive used my Acheron since 9th ed and I have to say I miss the damage 3 in 10th, and losing overwatch really makes me feel like hes too points expensive.

[@AlunDowdeswell]

the true question is how long before they're both in legends......

[@jasonpeacock9735]

Why would they?

[@AlunDowdeswell]

good question, they did for the leviathan, decimator, contemptor, kratos, brass scorpion among others......they claim balance and bloat, but why do space marines have 3 different storm speeder variants? But decimators are too much to ask?@@jasonpeacock9735

[@mikepopay328]

From a 40k standpoint - is there much point in buying one of these with them likely to go to Legends by next ed at the latest? :(

[@jasonpeacock9735]

Why would you say that? The current 40k Questoris and Armiger kits have HH branded kits to. We are just likely to see this kit return in a 40k branded box when the new codex drops.

[@OwenLeBlanc-l7h]

The points per dollar for the Acheron is pretty woeful unfortunately. At 445 points you're only getting about 2.2 points per dollar if it is $200. For reference an Assault terminator squad box gives you 5 terminators for 190 points, which is around 3.3 points per dollar.

[@TheXasTube]

Pyrovore...

[@lachlankren4231]

These two vs the lancer?

[@icklemoo]

My concern with these knights is simply they are package boxed in Horus heresy artwork / branding. Much like the dreads / tanks I just don’t trust GW at not dropping these cerastus knights from 40K once the codex comes out. Plus the rules are utter shite on the flamer version / las cutter. Seriously 2d6 and -1 ap 😂. They are trolling players for fun clearly . Thing needs at least d6 + 6 and damage should be twinlinked at least give it some rerolls or give something like + 1 ap at half range . To think in 9th edition it was str 7 / -2 ap snd 3 damage 😂

[@jasonpeacock9735]

If you look at the Questoris and Armiger kits, they have separate HH and 40k branded boxes. The only difference is the decal sheet. You can probably expect 40k branded Cerastus kits when the next codex drops.

[@icklemoo]

@@jasonpeacock9735 fingers crossed they don’t pull a dirty move then

[@realli4021]

I would like to know which IK allied to Dark Angels is better?

[@danielbob2628]

Hey Auspex, is there any legal way to give Precision to a Titan?

[@henrycarpmael9298]

If they are characters you can target them with the epic challenge strat, though that is just melee

[@danielbob2628]

@@henrycarpmael9298 Wait, can't Titans fire their ranged weapons in melee? Does this count for that?

[@henrycarpmael9298]

No, just their melee weapons I believe

[@danielbob2628]

@@henrycarpmael9298 Ah darn. I liked the idea of a Titan exclusively outfitted for single-target damage firing exclusively at one character per turn.

[@Dave-ds3vo]

Thinking it's a lancer for me!

[@thelegendsmith3063]

Crazy thing is they got a point increase armigerd are went up to 150 big knigjts went up 10 points except canis who went down 30

[@Graavigala85]

Castigator, looks better, has better head, cooler shoulders and more kick ass weapons. Sure they might not be as good statwise but rule of cool trumps all

[@xxmatrixmasterxx9903]

Can someone explain to me why Chaos buffs are just worse than the imperial knight buffs? Like why does Chaos Castigator aura not give -1 AP? Why does chaos Archeron aura not give -1 to the battleshock test? Am I missing something here?

[@carloago8305]

Because chaos uses auras, so all war dogs gets the bonus. Imperials only applies their rules on a single armiger.

[@travisC6378]

Ill bet with the knights codex gets lock to horus heresy

[@jasonpeacock9735]

Yeah, no

[@travisC6378]

@@jasonpeacock9735 your right its not like gw hasn't done that with every other faction

[@jasonpeacock9735]

@@travisC6378the same GW that has HH and 40k branded boxes for the current Questoris and Armiger kits?

[@morgymomo8535]

believe it is 400nzd... thats 200 pounds... we play an extra 80 pound because of shipping in new Zealand...

[@violetsareblueFG42]

annoying thing is, even though theyre made for heresy, knights are basically useless in heresy as they get easily bodied by most dreadnoughts one on one despite being twice the size.

[@theofficialobama5434]

IDGAS if the Acheron is bad. There isn’t much cooler than a giant flame thrower and a huge double chain sword.

[@sephrus7784]

The acheron needs a rule change to be worthwhile but God damn it looks so bad a$$. I would like to see it get 1 free overwatch and then ignore the titanic rule for overwatch.

[@BECAUSEBAZ]

I dont think they come close to the lancer.

[@wa1ach]

Isn't the bondsman ability restriction only applies to Questoris models?

[@Dirt1061]

Did someone say bolter? Yes please! Oh it spins you say? Wait you slapped two of them together?!? They will be dead before you can use the pointy stick!

[@constrainedanacronysm1370]

Its very irritating and anti-consumer that all of the variants are available in a single kit like the normal Questoris Knight kit. But you can't have people have one they can just magnetize the loadouts of because they want more moneyyyy.

[@lindraeson]

I have no trust in heresy models

[@timzuber6682]

Big knight with a flamer that can’t overwatch…yeah nah At least GW changed that rule before people went and purchased one. Bet that they regret that!

[@marcarthur100]

two be onist i amsaprized tey are not both lock two hh only like alot of hh modals are now ]

[@jasonpeacock9735]

You might want to go get checked for a stroke.

[@matjov]

So unimaginative to give their melee weapons the same profile as the standard ones.

[@noneofyourbusiness4133]

This so why removing templates has sucked >:(

[@Tambor888]

Not getting either of them.. they'll probably remove them from 40k once they've sold enough, same thing they did with the contemptor and leviathan dreads (and everything else HH).

[@jasonpeacock9735]

Have they removed the Questoris and Armiger kits from 40k yet?

[@Tambor888]

Those don't come specifically branded for horus heresy. Look at the box@@jasonpeacock9735

[@jasonpeacock9735]

⁠@@Tambor888I did. The specifically HH branded boxes for both the Armiger and Questoris kits GW sells on their website. So, are they going to Legends too? Or, realistically, can we expect 40k branded Cerastus boxes when the next Knight codex drops?

[@Sorrowshard]

Looking at the 30k entries. There's no point taking either really. The Lancer is just better. (Why does the Archie cost more ? Why!? ) both of them seem to have had their ranged options pre-nerfed. The castigator gun is kinda lame , 3+ saves laugh at it. Tanks barely tickled. It's better than that useless flamer cannon though (still find it laughable the flamer templates only ever do a single hit on vehicles ... except when overwatching where they inexplicably work more realistically) the castigator spray and pray is going to give more hits more of the time than the flamer , it's going to kill more stuff more of the time in cc (the archie does edge it out vs vehicles with the armourbane) I don't see why you'd take either of these over the lancer basically ever. It's actually kinda baffling how poorly the three are balanced with each other. Seemingly everything that should be ap3 has recieved a preemptive nerf bat. Castigator should get less shots and rending, flamer = ap3 and the lancer shock needs dialling down and it's sheild improving (consistent with AT and LI) They need to revise these rules, no one is ever taking an Acheron. Mostly you're only going to fit one in and it's always going to be the lancer isn't it.

[@Damnedlegion40k]

Add a comment...

[@mikedelta5861]

To bad orks can’t use looted vehicles anymore…

[@ReadThisIfYourG3y]

Ap 3? Laughs in AP 5 daemon breath spear

[@11AleZZ]

Both are meehh compared to Wardogs or Helverins

[@facemite]

They already confirmed that they plan to put anything labled 30k into legends so anybody thinking of buying this for 40k think again most game stores don't even allow legends

[@jasonpeacock9735]

Have you notice that Questoris and Armigers kits have separate packaging for HH and 40k? This kit isn’t going to Legends. At worst, you can expect a rerelease of the kit with 40k appropriate decals later.

[@19Crusader91]

Its a real shame they cant be used in 40k.

[@Bluegender88]

They can be used in 40k.

[@petermccall1185]

​@@Bluegender88give it time

[@19Crusader91]

@@Bluegender88 Yea.. noticed. But its... weird. Because these were announced as HH models. But now they will be offically in the 40k codex as well?

[@Bluegender88]

@19Crusader91 Rules are currently in the forgeworld section but with plastic models coming we will most like see them in the new knights codex.

[@lassemelson5668]

I mean ure not wrong they r not viable yet

[@Mr_Waffle.]

People mistakenly think that GW have bad broken unbalanced rules to sell more models, which is proven false yet again by these giant expensive monsters that are totally not worth the money gameplay wise. GW management is chaotically evil greedy, not lawful evil greedy

[@BowlofColdSoup]

I love reading the amount of salty space marine players that keep saying "They will only be playable in 30k, not 40k" The reason the Contemptor and Leviathan got placed into Legends, even though they got a plastic model, wasn't because "GW wants to trick us into buying things they inevitably move into legends" No, not completely correct. They just dislike firstborns. And since those models were both firstborn dreadnoughts, they got removed. Like a lot of other firstborn space marine models and soon, others, judging by the new codex "captains" change.

[@ChrisPrice12]

They were almost the most bought recast/printed models from what I hear. GW just noticed there were far more contemptors showing up than they actually sold.

[@dudemcfurgusson7179]

It's not that they hate firstborn, it's that the entire space marines line is being held hostage by 30 year old kits, some of which haven't been in print for ages. You might be salty about losing your toys, but some space marine subfactions (space wolves) have more unique datasheets alone than some entire armies. The bloat must be checked.

[@l.l1024]

Printed Both for 17€ each, LOL