CGC GET OFF MY LAWN Rant PART 2

[@NaNa-qb8ld]

I visited your shop 3 times so far. If you were closer than two hours, I would probably be there every month. Emmet is not the comic shop owner from the simpsons or even the old man yelling about his lawn. First time I went there, a young kid about 7 came into the shop asking questions about everything. He was real patient, answered all the questions and treated him with respect. Emmet is one of the good guys. I recommend visiting his shop at least once. It brings back memories of walking from the original Forbidden Planet to St Marks and then Washington Square looking for comics.

[@HavenForHeroes]

Oh thank you for the kind of word sir. It's very humbling we tried man we try.

[@ScarecrOmega]

When someone would rather have an 8.0 CGC book than a 9.0 CBCS, PGX, etc of the same book it shows they don't care about the grade OR the book they only care about potential profit. It sucks that people are using comics only as currency because that was the last thing I thought about when I first collected comics. Loved the point you made about Book of Kells.

[@HavenForHeroes]

That's what I was thinking. Just sort of feels that way

[@shorts26]

If the economy wasn't so bad thanks to the democrats people wouldn't have to resort to this to make some kind of money

[@rickhubble7498]

A word to the wise. I sent them a book in the early stages of their business. Still waiting to get it back. It took the better part of 6 months to get them to admit it was missing. Then the lying and the crying started. (CGC) We have to look for it. We think it's missing. Then, when I threatened to call their local police. Then it was, oh, one of our employees seems to have taken it. So, can you get me a replacement that is a fair reimbursement. (CGC) No, here's a check. And that ladies and gentleman was, according to them, the end of the matter. Never replaced my book. Never refunded my money for the service. Later, they admitted that they had received money from their insurance company and lowballed me because they didn't get full value. Real upstanding company.

[@HavenForHeroes]

Man I'm so sorry to hear that. They definitely should have refunded for the services since they weren't performed. Thanks for sharing.

[@carlossoto7836]

I haven't had any of my comics graded. This has certainly been something to think about after seeing this video. I love comics, sometimes it's the stories but a lot for me is the artwork! Comic book art is amazing and it seems overlooked and last on the list of value

[@HavenForHeroes]

Thank you for sharing your comic journey. Welcome to the conversation and the channel

[@tensixtythreecomics]

Only issue that I have is I’m getting older. My 15 000 comic collection is nothing more than a burden for my family when I’m gone. Graded books provide less of a burden for them.

[@HavenForHeroes]

I get it everybody because he's really got to do what's best for them and I understand. Like I said, at the end of the video the need to grade some books

[@pamvarner8044]

Getting older too. But my books aren’t for my family or money. They’re for me to enjoy collecting reading and loving the art. Love your books while you have them. You are not their owner, merely the custodian until they find their next home.

[@kahnlives]

@@pamvarner8044✋👏👏👏

[@tensixtythreecomics]

@@pamvarner8044agreed! I enjoy them and remember buying almost every one especially the early ones. So much fun reading and talking comics with a friend. That is present but the finding of their next home is also present.

[@sassysteveartist]

@@pamvarner8044 Amen!

[@thegamergirl0007]

I just discovered your channel and I can't stop admiring your wisdom. I live in Spain, if I didn't, I'd visit your shop at least once at month. My humble comic collection doesn't include graded comics and I was feeling bad, like a "low quality" collection. You made me remember that I'm a READER! I collect by passion, not by value. I'll be watching more videos to support your channel and learn more, and improving my english! Thanks, sir.

[@HavenForHeroes]

Thank you so much for the glaring review. It's humbling. Stick around. More to come. Welcome to the community.

[@dahger7]

CGC Probably would have caught them earlier if all the “investors” influencers and fanboys wouldn’t have been flooding their offices with new comics looking for a 9.8. They brought the youth need for peacocking to the comic collecting market and effed it up.

[@HavenForHeroes]

I can see what you mean but ultimately the company is responsible.

[@1971thedoctor]

It’s raw comics for me. I’m a collector and long time reader so my enjoyment is seeing the inside artwork and writing. I had around 60 CGC Jack Kirby comics from the 1970s, it was just decoration in my room and felt it was a waste for me, so I got rid of them.

[@HavenForHeroes]

Yeah they just seem like trophies on the wall posters can do the same thing or get you some original art

[@LandMisfitComics]

LOVE this :-) Plastic garbage coffins for our historical documents that are meant to be read and enjoy!! Hyper faux spec pricing from market manipulators IMHO!! FMV is more triple dipping $$$$. Follow the monies!!

[@HavenForHeroes]

Well said!

[@gringles]

I just stumbled on this channel about an hour ago. It never ceases to amaze me how many content creators KZbin has somehow hidden from me for a decade. I will be checking out those older videos.

[@HavenForHeroes]

Thanks so much! Welcome to the community.

[@COMICSSOLDIER]

Mr. Emmett, I would love to visit your shop, but i live in Iowa...too far for a day drive. Would love to talk veteran stuff. Thanks for your service by the way!

[@HavenForHeroes]

Thanks so much brother. We'll be here. Maybe someday you'll get to visit. We do have a Shopify store attached and will be adding more and more books. Welcome to the community!

[@cincinnatuscincinnatus8541]

I have never sent in one of my comics to be graded and after all these scams that happened at CGC. I will probably never send in my books to be graded. I believe we need to go back to raw books with nice cases where we can take our books out and enjoy them to read.

[@HavenForHeroes]

Agreed

[@teetoo3790]

9 years ago? I only found out about your videos today. The KZbin algorithm just started recommending your videos to me today. Lol

[@HavenForHeroes]

Yeah it only takes one video but when it takes 9 years to get that video it's sometimes it's disheartening but I'm having fun doing it. Thanks for watching. More to come and dig back to the old stuff. Some good stuff back there

[@fredystheawesomeshow8301]

I was planning to have 2 rare Comic Book graded but thankfully i have this guy change my mind. I thank you for the advice.

[@HavenForHeroes]

Thanks there are several other ways to protect your books. We'll be doing a review of some of them. Welcome to our community

[@mikeallabaughrealtor5371]

Thanks for bringing up Sgt Rock and Easy co. Awesome stories and Joe Kubert awesomeness! One of my personal favorites!

[@HavenForHeroes]

Call yes sir I'm a huge Kubert fan and of the many early graduates of his school.

[@teetoo3790]

The older I get, I am finding Sgt.Rock war and Jonah Hex western comics far more interesting.

[@PDHBricks]

Grading has taken the market down a path coins has been living, cards is entering and comic books is just starting. It’s the death of collecting them.

[@HavenForHeroes]

readers will still collect but the boom is over.

[@PDHBricks]

@@HavenForHeroes I believe as in sports cards and coins what slowly happens is prices rise on raw items because grading take over pricing instead of the other way around. Buy the item not the plastic.

[@teetoo3790]

​@@PDHBricks Totally agree with this.

[@Bomber848480015]

Watched your other video on CGC. Thank you a fan of the channel subscribed now! Keep up the good work. From one old man to another we are on the same wave legnth.

[@HavenForHeroes]

Thanks for the words of encouragement and the subscribe. It's a conversation. Will go on for some time. Welcome aboard

[@Getbaddudes]

Yeah, I just stumbled on it and am described now. Lots of great videos!

[@Valeriazane]

thank you so much for you input about CGC. I have been setting up my Ebay shop for my own collection, and I was concerned about whether or not I was going to have to do this. I'm sure glad i don't! what a scam.

[@HavenForHeroes]

Thanks for watching. Leaving a comment walking aboard. Best of luck with your eBay store.

[@psychedeliccomics]

Forgive me sir, I forgot to comment on your last video and I agree: I am not a fan of graded comic books, however I had a lot of my "slab-worthy" comics graded to sell. I quit comics back in 89 and lugged them with me all these years and glad I did. I am still stunned that graded comic books are crazy expensive just cause you have them in those plastic-coffins. Just discovering that comic books are slabbed back in 2020 just makes me more disappointed in the hobby as I was in the one-dollar cover price-plus back in 1989 that was one of the reasons why I quit. Keep those videos coming. p.s. the cost of slabbing all those slab-worthy books were greater than my entire collection costs. Nuts.....

[@HavenForHeroes]

I love the PS. Isn't it funny they made more money than marvel and DC from you buying the books.

[@theohoekstra1244]

Excellent point on the source of the FMV. Yes, they should be transparent on the source. To the point of FMV raw or slabbed - the answer is raw. Payment is due upfront prior to grading and prior to pressing. Payment clears upon receipt of the books and prior to any work being done. They will also refund money for things they can't do. For example I have had books that couldn't be pressed because of embossed covers - it would damage the book, so they refunded the pressing fee for that book. They have also updated the book information I submitted. An example, I missed that a couple were newsstand editions, they made the change.

[@HavenForHeroes]

It's a lot of great information. I wish I could have got off their website. Thank you. I'm part of the conversation

[@jamesortiz3425]

I believe that there should be a basic rate for encasing anything no matter if it's expensive or not, And there should be a basic rate of grading a book, and not for its worth!! Other than that, they become corrupt! I could say more, But I believe U get the gesture of my comment!!!

[@HavenForHeroes]

Thanks for joining the conversation. Welcome aboard. Hope you enjoy the channel

[@jameswilliamson1733]

I grade mine because I like to display them and love the way it looks. I don't care about the value. If I like the cover of a book it's worth the $20 to me. That is like buying a picture and not a frame to display it.

[@HavenForHeroes]

Just make sure they don't get any direct sunlight since they're not UV protected. They will fade inside the case. You should collect the way you like to collect. Just want everybody to be informed.

[@duanesoper9677]

Nice - I'm a huge Sgt Rock (Our Army at War) fan from my childhood. I'm lucky and have collected every copy.

[@HavenForHeroes]

Congrats! Sadly, I did have the entire run from a customer who's to come by and talk comics but being a store I have to sell it. So I only have bits and pieces of it left but I had almost everything with the exception of his first appearance

[@phretbored]

When comic books started getting slabbed I remember having a distaste for it because books are made to be opened and read and enjoyed. My really active collecting years were before CGC slabbed books and before the internet and it was fun to hunt down specific books and haggle and work out a deal or not. That being said I have landed on the side that having a independent 3rd party to grade rare books or key issue books is not a bad thing. I think preserving the rare books and key issues is worthwhile via getting them slabbed . You can find a lower quality raw copy or a reprint or even find the book readable online so a graded book doesn't restrict the book from being fully enjoyed. But the grading companies as they exist or not a clean independent process they have all kinds of problems and conflicts of interest. If comic grading is going to exist then there should be many companies and the books graded by the most trusted grading company will get a higher market value that is just market forces at work. If you are going to be a participant in the comic grading game you have to accept the risk of that grading company trust being damaged or broken like we are seeing now with CGC. You also have to accept the risk that if a system has a way to exploit it someone will figure that out and work that exploit. There are many reasons I like the idea of collecting raw books and haggling on the condition and value and also many reasons I liked slabbed books. There is room and reason for both raw and slabbed books to exist.

[@HavenForHeroes]

I agree with you. There is room I can decide not to braid. My books Tell people not the grade theirs, but they should be educated on what it means. Thank you for being part of the discussion

[@best9642]

Thanks for a great show and giving us all something to think about.

[@HavenForHeroes]

Our pleasure!

[@dennisrockbottomskelly7948]

Really nice presentation. You've renewed my interest in Comics after many years. Just subscribed. Thanks!

[@HavenForHeroes]

Well thank you very much sir. That is exactly what I'm trying to do is bring back the joy comics cuz I love them dearly

[@aquila3168]

Great video! Will not send a book to be graded. FMV needs to be justified otherwise it is a pure money grab.

[@HavenForHeroes]

Thanks for joining conversation. Welcome to the community

[@teetoo3790]

Sad Sack remember that. My late grandfather worked on a Navy Ship. Gave me some he found on the Navy ships. Most of them had half a cover. Read them, than he brought me home a bunch of Marvels and fell in love with this hobby. I wouldn't mind reading a Sad Sack Harvey collection. Sad Sack and Sarge. Ha ha

[@HavenForHeroes]

They were great right? Yeah man. See how people connect over comics. We don't talk about them like that anymore. Everything's about oh what's how much is that and what grades you get and all that.

[@jasonpinkney1150]

I agree about CGC's business practices - I think they are too much like organized crime, always trying to get a piece of the action. Soon they'll be offering a service to grade the cases themselves! Now, about Newton's Rings: it is a particular type of thin film interference pattern that happens when an optical flat (a lens with a flat side) is in contact with a convex lens. Circular, concentric rings centered at the point of contact will result. This is NOT exactly what is happening in CGC slabs, so it was a misapplied term that everyone continues misappying in the comic world. A better term is "thin film interference". This can happen when rays of light bounce between two surfaces (which can be the top and bottom of a film of oil on water, or two nearly flat sheets of plastic up against one another). Light behaves as a wave and two rays of light will interfere with each other either constructively (a bright fringe) or destructively (a dark fringe) depending on whether the waves are in phase or out of phase, respectively. This, in turn, depends on the wavelength (color) of the light, and the path length difference between two rays which, by the way, originate at the same source. Bright fringes of green will occur in a slightly different position than bright fringes of blue or red. You can also see thin film interference in a new mylar bag before you insert a comic. The pattern will change with the slightest pressure because you only have to change the gap size by a fraction of a micron (the wavelength of visible light). Sorry this reaches you 6 months after your video!

[@HavenForHeroes]

Thank you for such a detailed explanation and it makes more sense. I'm going to definitely be passing this on. Thank you for joining the conversation. Welcome to the community

[@Homemadegameguru]

The grading market is nuts. I collect and publish comic books, cards, and vintage action figures. When it comes to action figures, I was going to sell some through Comics Link, but they wanted graded toys. I saw the prices of the different companies and I was floored. Unlike comics, the prices for sealed 80s toys are all over the place. Plus blister condition is a huge factor and my rarest toys are not mint in any sense - but are still sealed and rare. I couldn't justify paying $40+ to grade each toy. It seems there is a grading company for every single type of collectible.

[@HavenForHeroes]

I hear you. I feel the same way. Thanks for being part of the conversation

[@alee1374]

Hi! Could you send links or info to the aforementioned folks that do comic book pressings (Red Hood, Big Leg, etc.) ? Thanks for opening up my eyes...was thinking of grading some older books. Now I don't know...should I keep them in my old Fortresses holders? 🤔

[@HavenForHeroes]

@redhoodcomic and @bigglegg on Instagram just message them and tell them Emmet from Haven for Heroes sent you.

[@MHamel]

I hate the 4% charge, I always thought that gave them incentive to over grade. I understand charging more for bigger books for liability reasons, but it should be a flat fee. Good videos, shop looks cool

[@HavenForHeroes]

Thank you! Stay tuned. I got a lot more stuff to complain about lol

[@cowyeow]

I spend a lot of time overseas and keep a small collection at my brother’s home. I prefer graded books because they’re safer when out of my hands, plus easier for my family to sell if I suddenly pass.

[@HavenForHeroes]

Very understandable with your situation

[@theohoekstra1244]

Newton rings occur when the bag makes contact with the plastic of the slab. Like a prism, it refracts light - think of the album cover of Darkside of the Moon by Pink Floyd. It's not defective in anyway. Just the physics of light. Some collectors hate it but I don't have a problem with it.

[@HavenForHeroes]

Thank you for explaining that. Much appreciated. Great to have you as part of discussion

[@dmt02459]

PLEASE READ: Newton Rings occur in CGC slabs where the inner case, which is soft plastic, is in contact with the outer case, which is hard plastic. Unfortunately, this contact most often occurs at the center of the front of the case, which is usually the focal point of the front cover artwork, and this absolutely ruins the presentation. Some buyers/collector say they don't mind this cosmetic issue, but the problem is that if the inner case is, indeed in contact with the outer case, it may very well be due to the fact that the inner case is warping, which, at best, can make the book appear warped, and at worst, actually warps the book. I have between 30 and 50 books (the majority are 9.6 or 9.8) of CGC graded books that were also CCS pressed, which do not appear to be laying completely flat in the inner case. Some of the books not only appear unpressed but they appear warped by the inner case. It is on this point that the plot thickens: It appears that the soft plastic inner case (what they call at CGC "the inner well") is temperature sensitive within a temperature range that is exceeded in the transportation process. This may temperature sensitivity may not matter at the bottom end, but it definitely appears to matter on the top end. The problem is that CGC cannot guarantee climate control when the item is in the custody of the various shipping companies during the transportation process. I know this because I've received cases of books during the summer months where the whole batch had either Newton Rings and/or the books looked unpressed, if not also warped. Almost all of these already laid flat before I sent them in for pressing. I just had them pressed to get them to their best presentation condition. However, some of these books not only book unpressed, they literally look warped like they had been stored askew. If it is the case that the temperature sensitivity of the inner well (what I am calling the soft plastic "inner case") is temperature sensitive to the detriment of the presentation of the book, if not also the preservation of the book in optimal condition, under the inevitable temperature-extreme conditions of summer heat especially where intensified within the transportation trucks, then CGC is actually negligent in pretending that Newton Rings indicator merely a cosmetic issue. On the contrary, it appears that CGC encasement may actually be detrimental, even damaging, under certain conditions, to the preservation of the optimal condition of the books. Although, in most cases, CGC has been willing to complementarily reholder the books, the amount of time and stress involved in visually and graphically documenting the defects, especially those of the inner cases, which can be quite difficult to photograph, drains most if not all of the added value of having the books third-party pressed, graded, and "preserved". Lastly, nowhere on any of the CGC submission forms or shipping invoices, or any other documentation, does CGC inform the dealers or collectors using their services that their "inner wells" (and/or the encasements as a whole) are temperature sensitive. My argument is that if they published this information, they would have to figure out a way to guarantee climate-controlled shipping from their facility to the delivery points or pick up points of their customers, which they most certainly cannot. It appears to me, then, that the CGC business model carries a huge liability regarding the problem of not being able to secure and maintain the necessary archival conditions to ensure the encased book is not only properly preserved but also not detrimentally exposed, particularly in the transportation process. Rather than being adversarial, I've done my best to try to work with CGC. I've even communicated with CGC President Matt Nelson through a CGC liason. Of the most recent mechanical errors reholdering submission I made consisting of 32 books with this condition, about half were re-pressed and arrived re-holdered in optimal condition. The other half were re-holdered without re-pressing, so the books appear warped in the cases. Of the three booksthat I had resubmitted for mislabeling, all three books were apparently reholdered, but still mislabeled. If anyone is interested, I have hundreds of photos, copious documentation, and many actual examples in hand.

[@phretbored]

Your shop looks like a great place to visit. And your commentary is interesting and on point. I will be checking out your videos.

[@HavenForHeroes]

Much appreciated!

[@pamvarner8044]

I got to see the Book of Kells once. Beautiful.

[@HavenForHeroes]

Hey, it's on my bucket list. I've looked at it online but I'd love to see it in person

[@theohoekstra1244]

SGT Rock - the best. "The Man behind the Rock" is my favorite issue. "Angels with Black Wings" a fantastic story too. You reminded me of how much I enjoyed them when I was a kid. I don't have any issues now... that's going to change, I promise you that!

[@HavenForHeroes]

Thanks for sharing your common journey very similar to mine.

[@Wiser1FOREVER]

Another point against any grading company charging you tier pricing is that they are already charging you for a service that's intended to artificially raise the value of the books sent in! **That's the whole point of the existence of these grading companies!** For them to suddenly want to grab up some of the value by charging an additional percentage for the service they're providing is absurd! They are then double-dipping because you then will be paying far more than what the service is worth!

[@HavenForHeroes]

Yeah, I don't believe any of the other companies do that. CGC is doing it because they feel that and for good reason they're label increases the value of the book more than what the book value

[@Wiser1FOREVER]

That's what makes it a form of extortion. The whole point of what I'm saying as I stated above is that you sumbit books to them to create a higher value on the books to get more profit from selling them! It's also redundant for them to use that as an excuse! As you've stated before(I think you did in one of your other videos) the propective buyer(s) set the values based on what they're willing to pay! Much of the FMVs out there is influenced by people who have money to burn, but is not realistic for the average collector!

[@CHRISMED2]

One of the first comics I ever owned was a free Aim Spiderman comic from the 70s. Unfortunately I wore it out because I read it so many times. I just bought it on eBay as a raw book, and It's honestly in great shape, I can read it and relive my childhood. This is the value of raw books and have no need to grade it

[@HavenForHeroes]

Thank you for sharing your comic story with me. That's fantastic that you're able to find it again, thanks for being part of the conversation

[@dmt02459]

Thanks for your public service announcement! Newton Rings occur in CGC slabs where the inner case, which is soft plastic, is in contact with the outer case, which is hard plastic. Unfortunately, this contact most often occurs at the center of the front of the case, which is usually the focal point of the front cover artwork, and this absolutely ruins the presentation. Some buyers/collector say they don't mind this cosmetic issue, but the problem is that if the inner case is, indeed in contact with the outer case, it may very well be due to the fact that the inner case is warping, which, at best, can make the book appear warped, and at worst, actually warps the book. I have between 30 and 50 books (the majority are 9.6 or 9.8) of CGC graded books that were also CCS pressed, which do not appear to be laying completely flat in the inner case. Some of the books not only appear unpressed but they appear warped by the inner case. It is on this point that the plot thickens: It appears that the soft plastic inner case (what they call at CGC "the inner well") is temperature sensitive within a temperature range that is exceeded in the transportation process. This may temperature sensitivity may not matter at the bottom end, but it definitely appears to matter on the top end. The problem is that CGC cannot guarantee climate control when the item is in the custody of the various shipping companies during the transportation process. I know this because I've received cases of books during the summer months where the whole batch had either Newton Rings and/or the books looked unpressed, if not also warped. Almost all of these already laid flat before I sent them in for pressing. I just had them pressed to get them to their best presentation condition. However, some of these books not only book unpressed, they literally look warped like they had been stored askew. If it is the case that the temperature sensitivity of the inner well (what I am calling the soft plastic "inner case") is temperature sensitive to the detriment of the presentation of the book, if not also the preservation of the book in optimal condition, under the inevitable temperature-extreme conditions of summer heat especially where intensified within the transportation trucks, then CGC is actually negligent in pretending that Newton Rings indicator merely a cosmetic issue. On the contrary, it appears that CGC encasement may actually be detrimental, even damaging, under certain conditions, to the preservation of the optimal condition of the books. Although, in most cases, CGC has been willing to complementarily reholder the books, the amount of time and stress involved in visually and graphically documenting the defects, especially those of the inner cases, which can be quite difficult to photograph, drains most if not all of the added value of having the books third-party pressed, graded, and "preserved". Lastly, nowhere on any of the CGC submission forms or shipping invoices, or any other documentation, does CGC inform the dealers or collectors using their services that their "inner wells" (and/or the encasements as a whole) are temperature sensitive. My argument is that if they published this information, they would have to figure out a way to guarantee climate-controlled shipping from their facility to the delivery points or pick up points of their customers, which they most certainly cannot. It appears to me, then, that the CGC business model carries a huge liability regarding the problem of not being able to secure and maintain the necessary archival conditions to ensure the encased book is not only properly preserved but also not detrimentally exposed, particularly in the transportation process. Rather than being adversarial, I've done my best to try to work with CGC. I've even communicated with CGC President Matt Nelson through a CGC liason. Of the most recent mechanical errors reholdering submission I made consisting of 32 books with this condition, about half were re-pressed and arrived re-holdered in optimal condition. The other half were re-holdered without re-pressing, so the books appear warped in the cases. Of the three booksthat I had resubmitted for mislabeling, all three books were apparently reholdered, but still mislabeled. If anyone is interested, I have hundreds of photos, copious documentation, and many actual examples in hand.

[@HavenForHeroes]

Oh brother I am so very interested. I email is [e-mail] don't mind. I'd love to tell your story. It's something that the public needs to know at least the comic. Thank you so much for being part of the conversation. This is what I had suspected.

[@dmt02459]

Hey Emmet, I did send you an email, just now, so you can see a sample of the issues that I'm talking about! Dave

[@HavenForHeroes]

@@dmt02459 I got you email thank very much it will be a big part of an upcoming video. I will leave out/redact other people in the content you provided. The community has to hear about this.

[@dmt02459]

@@HavenForHeroes Again, I appreciate your interest! And I appreciate your approach to decolonizing comic books from the grips of corporate imperialism. SGT Rock would be proud!

[@BrianRidgway-u5g]

It's laughable to think of the money being spent to grade and slab books that aren't even worth placing in a polymer bag.

[@HavenForHeroes]

Right? It's unfathomable to me

[@derektitov6667]

There seems to be a big lack of trust in most grading companies aside from CGC and CBCS. In my experience CBCS actually grades harsher than CGC so a 9.8 from CBCS is, without a doubt, a 9.8 in my mind. Yet CBCS graded issues don't command the same price as the CGC equivalent. There have even been instances of 9.8 CBCS slabs getting sent into CGC for a re-grade and getting bumped down one or two grades which immediately makes me suspicious of the CGC staff and the rivalry between the two companies. I don't trust CGC but I do use them to grade my raw books in great condition that I want to sell to make some money. For my personal "intend to keep forever" collection, a CBCS 9.8 slab is just as good, or better, than the CGC equivalent. (no newton rings either, and you're right; petroleum based plastics interacting with one another. CBCS doesn't have this problem with their holders.) Sorry for the long comment!

[@HavenForHeroes]

I had the same feeling. It seems like the market is driving rather than the quality driving the leader

[@derektitov6667]

Exactly, and much more succinctly put than my ramble. Haha. @@HavenForHeroes

[@theohoekstra1244]

A Question to the room; Am I the only one who, while listening, is checking the books to see if you have any of them? I have the Sensational She-Hulk and the Savage She-Hulk, but I think that's it.

[@HavenForHeroes]

Keep watching. Hopefully you'll see them change.

[@twindiezel1965]

I loved your first stream. I watched it once it dropped and this follow up video shows a different side to you. Keep dropping awesome content!!

[@HavenForHeroes]

Thank you! Will do!

[@johnedwards2051]

i compleatly agree with you nothing smells as good as a famous funnies 214 after you have cracked it out of its slab/coffin

[@HavenForHeroes]

Thank you very much. I couldn't agree more about the smell

[@Deephouse_Gent66]

Hello again! Just subscribed to your channel! It is always a pleasure to listen to comic readers who truly have a heartfelt love for the medium and for the content. As I've stated in earlier posts, I don't hate on those into comics for the grading & slabbing, but grading & slabbing doesn't serve MY personal interest in comics, which is to enjoy the interior content. I am also a long-time reader who picked up my first comic in 1974, so I can totally empathize with your love of the stories and the art. One of my all-time faves as a kid was THE HULK, but not the Roy Thomas/Herb Trimpe stuff... I loved the stories throughout the entire Sal Buscema art run, which carried readers from Len Wein to Roger Stern then to Bill Mantilo. And MANTILO was, in my opinion, one of the most underrated writers ever. But the humanity that he infused the Hulk's stories with remains top-notch, IMO, with Peter David's run a close second. I know I'm in the minority on that opinion, but just wanted to share one of the comic runs that defined my enjoyment of them growing up. I also agree that in terms of grading, there definitely needs to be more transparency or at least some definitive staple by which to define terms in regard to "market values" "market ratios" and such. Such terms are vague and open to different sellers' interpretations.

[@HavenForHeroes]

Thank you so much for sharing your comic journey. We share a similar story. Herb Trimpe taught highschool art next town over.

[@Turtlepower1982]

Funny enough i have a TMNT 1 second print out for grading with these goofs...makes me wonder if they will grade it higher than what it actually is to get a little more money out of that % of FMV BS. Im all for an extra charge on higher value books, but taking a percentage of the fair market value is criminal.

[@HavenForHeroes]

Just leaves room for all kinds of nefarious actions or just the appearance thereof.

[@Turtlepower1982]

@@HavenForHeroes that's the thing...we will never know. When the difference from say an 8.5 to 9.2 can be hundreds (possibly thousands) of dollars, there's nothing stopping CGC from giving the higher grade and making the extra profit. Once the book is slabbed; interior defects are non detectable which could affect the grade. Just to be transparent I am not against grading books. I'm 41, my kid is 2; my collection will be his one day and I don't know if he will embrace the hobby or cash out...so having higher value books graded will ease the sale process when I'm gone. The thousands of raw books won't be so easy. I also firmly believe that graders notes should be available for every single book CGC grades. I personally have mid grade books with notes of what's holding them back from perfect, but I have a couple 9.6s with ZERO notes available so "it's almost perfect. Why? We don't know?". The only books I personally will send out for grading are major character first appearances, silver age keys/lesser keys and rare books (not incentive "rare", more so low print run important books). A decade ago I was mostly against grading anything, but now knowing these books will eventually change hands I see it's place. I just wish there was less shady business practice in the business and that all grades assigned were subjectively accurate...the difference from a 9.6 to a 9.8 (and the new soup de jour 9.9) are so minor that a grader who hasn't finished his morning coffee can swing in the wrong direction and possibly cost the owner of said book a lot of money when they re sell.

[@Wiser1FOREVER]

They're charging you for their service which should be a across the board number! It's bad enough they don't guarantee their work to begin with! The tier pricing is a form of extortion from my perspective! That's a add-on charge which is ludicrous!

[@HavenForHeroes]

Absolutely, it should not matter what the book is. Every service should get the same . They never say that you get anything extra for the higher price other than the value of the book will be more. They don't say the handling any different. It doesn't get any special attention just as cuz it's expensive. You have to pay more. Because they believe they're adding value to your book which is not untrue in the short term. But maybe with all the problems they've been having, maybe true in the long term

[@Wiser1FOREVER]

Part of what you pay is insurance. I don't know if it's only intended for the shipping, but it should also be for possible damage by them! From what I understand they have a disclaimer of responsibility that you accept with your submission form(if that hasn't since been changed) that frees them from responsibility from possible damage caused by their own handling of the book(s).

[@babsthewreckingcrew4294]

😆 I almost panicked then I noticed wait a minute that book has no business being slabbed anyway 😅

[@HavenForHeroes]

LOL yeah you got the joke

[@babsthewreckingcrew4294]

@@HavenForHeroes 😂

[@theohoekstra1244]

I wish you were in OKC, your store looks amazing.

[@HavenForHeroes]

Thanks so much! Appreciate the kind words. If you're ever in New York, you're more than welcome

[@aftacomics5865]

Great program here! Yeah, I started reading in 1968 and started collecting in '70. I never stopped either. The whole CGC thing was talked about back in the 80's among fandom, but it was decided that it would not work. I think it's really expensive, it takes too long to get things back and it's inconsistent. I love a high grade, but I also collect low grades just to get the book in my collection. I'm a completest, which was common 50 years ago among my friends, even among golden age collectors 50 years ago. I held on to my collection, but it's so hard for me to comprehend how much money is paid out for books these days? Anyway, glad I found your channel! It's great!!!!

[@HavenForHeroes]

You're my kind of guy. I feel my job is to help support the reader/collector in obtain those completest goals. Thanks for watching.

[@dennish553]

Funny how CGC was established until the year 2000. So how was CGC talked about in the 80's?

[@HavenForHeroes]

he didn't say it was established he said it was talked about. He meant grading not CGC specifically. @@dennish553

[@songofgaruda]

Alright, a few thoughts: the whole joy of comic books (for most of us) is being able to read them and enjoy the stories and the artwork. Entombing a comic in a slab removes this joy and we can no longer feel the comic, read the comic, smell the comic, instead we have a piece of plastic in our hands which is much less fun. Secondly the majority of real comic collectors can ballpark the grade of a book if not scientifically grade it and judge its condition. The idea that CGC grades are somehow more official is preposterous. The majority of folks who send their books into CGC and other slabbing companies are doing it to increase the apparent market value of the book, and these people are just trying to make a profit. To be clear, this category of cretin does not love comic books, they like the other kind of paper which in America is colored green. There are also some collectors for whom a graded and slabbed comic is like a treasure or an idol. Maybe it’s a key issue with a cool cover, but they have it encased in hard plastic and displayed prominently in their comic book room. But again and here’s the thing: if you can’t read the book where is the joy in that? Anyhow if any of y’all agree or disagree with me I welcome your thoughts. Cheers!

[@HavenForHeroes]

Thank you for sharing some valuable points that I happen to agree with strongly. This is kind of My philosophy in a nutshell. Welcome to the conversation and the community.

[@enzomagtibay1014]

I'm a huge reader. I read comics online or via trade paperbacks or omnibuses. I dont have a slabbed and incased comic book yet, but maybe I will someday because I treat my vintage comics like antique. I want them protected. I keep them in bags, boards and top loaders but maybe I'll slab them. Cgc, Cbcs or maybe I'll buy one of those slab-it-yourself kits. I dont care about the grade. For Silver-Golden age comics I buy them at a low grade because higher grades are expensive and I also like signs of aging in an old comic. My grandpa is an antique collector and i get that from him. Pickers and antique collectors loves old things that have an aged looked into them.

[@HavenForHeroes]

Different ways people collect. It's great to find out about thank you for being part of the conversation

[@TemT8]

I have always been a raw book guy. I have said the same things you are for years to my friends. It is what it is, my wolverine in near mint condition is worth about $70 raw, my buds is worth about $200 at a 9.8. Its all relative to the consumer that gets it, like you. Thank for the vid! Give me a raw book anytime.

[@HavenForHeroes]

Thanks for being part of the conversation brother. Much appreciated

[@enzomagtibay1014]

If I want to read comics, I'll buy a Trade paperback or Omnibus. Individual comics are too fragile.

[@HavenForHeroes]

Trades are great for marvel and DC, but for independent creators it makes it difficult to continue producing a book without selling the floppies

[@theohoekstra1244]

The fee I think, is about the insurance. If an accident happens, they are on the hook for the damages. Let's say I submitted a 100K book. During the grading it gets dropped, or the grader sneezes - whatever and this results in a flaw of a point, or even half-point in grade, - that can mean thousands of dollars dwarfing the $4K cost of grading and putting the grading deep in the red for that book. It's about risk. In some respects, it's like auto insurance. With all other variables being the same, the more expensive the car, the higher the rate. It's a deal, in a way. A book worth $400 (the max for a book before going "High Value") is 6.25% ($25 base fee), and it rises as the FMV goes down. High value is up to $1000, its 8.5% at $1000 ($85 base fee) but, again, rises as the FMV drops - This level is by far the most expensive by ratio. Finally, there is unlimited at 4% ($100 minimum, so higher than 4% if your book is worth less than $4000, but more than $1000). At the end of the day - books over $4000 get the best rates.

[@HavenForHeroes]

This is one of the best explanations I have seen. Thank you very much

[@Supertomscustoms]

This is true but if nothing happens to the book, it’s pure profit for CGC. It’s not like they have to pay the insurance companies as the books come in. They likely have full coverage of their warehouse and everything in it. They probably have more value in modern books sitting in their warehouse waiting to be graded than the value of an AF 15 that gets expedited through the service in under a week. It’s just an excuse to get their piece of the pie on the inevitable sale.

[@acesontilt77]

I absolutely love your channel I just found it. I agree with your points on grading and mentioned so in your first video. 2 things I would add here. The newton rings are a reaction of heat pressure and the case materials. I have dealt with those devils for many years and its CGCs fault those exist! CBCS cases do not have that same issue because they use better materials. Lastly I would like to see you make a video on the BIG scandal that just dropped about CGCs husband and wife team. They were stealing books and making their own labels and so forth. Just type into youtube CGC lawsuit. I ejoy your videos alot. Thanks again for being a great figure for the community!

[@loki2stunt]

What about the latest scam?

[@HavenForHeroes]

Sadly, I recorded this before the information dropped course. I'll have something on that by the end of next week and that may not be the last scam yet

[@acballer1831]

I love to read my books I may one day grade books if i have doubles or want to sell….thats my outlook…glad to hear you views on this subject… keep on talking…

[@HavenForHeroes]

Thank you very much

[@williambaldridge1203]

The things you're talking about are the reasons why I haven't had many books graded. Because I don't think it should cost anymore to have a $10000, book graded than it cost to have a $10 book graded. Otherwise there's just too much incentive to cheat. I was a plasterer and I charged a certain price per sq.yard. Can you imagine if I got to charge someone who had?A more expensive house 4% extra because their house was more valuable.In other word.I want a piece of your house. That would be evidence of greed right off the bat. So if i'm demonstrating that i'm greedy, how can I be trusted ? If there was a greater degree of difficulty in the more expensive house I could charge more based on that. But I don't see how it could cost that much more to grade a more valuable book than a less valuable book. that just doesn't make sense to me. Maybe it would cost a little bit more to grade a Golden Age book. Because they're larger and have more pages than a modern book. But that's that should probably be based on the amount of pages. so much per page would be the way you would charge for it, not because of how valuable the book was gonna be that just leads to corruption. This is just my opinion. There's nothing I can do about any of it that I know of.

[@HavenForHeroes]

My sentiments exactly. I appreciate you sharing your opinion being part of the conversation. Welcome aboard

[@Stickygoose]

congrats on 1k subs

[@HavenForHeroes]

Thanks brother. Strangely enough, I just found your channel from you reacting I don't know why it's never been recommended to me since I'm all about comics. KZbin algorithm, huh?

[@bigghoww]

They charge you when you send them in. So grading then adding another charge wouldn't work.

[@HavenForHeroes]

Have you ever sent in a book that's more than $1,000 and declared it as unlimited?

[@bigghoww]

Nah. I've only submitted twice. Once at a Jim Lee signing. The other a signature series. I'm not a fan of slabs anymore. These scandals have opened my eyes

[@ryantyson2008]

lol 😂 I love the intro

[@HavenForHeroes]

Thank you. My film crew is really good and they work hard. Come up with funny intros

[@ComicsWithJose]

I will never grade my books. I only buy free rein books :)

[@HavenForHeroes]

Thanks for commenting and sharing. Welcome to our community.

[@antr7493]

[@HavenForHeroes]

Thanks

[@Sudar2424]

I've seen a lot of sport card collectors not want cards because of cgc graded cards. They would rather have psa. That said though cgc is super popular for non sports cards though

[@HavenForHeroes]

Hey, Thanks for being part of the conversation

[@bigcease2274]

Nah, I don't need a store where I need to pay rent to sell comics and cards. I'm making a pretty penny selling wherever I want to sell and how I want to sell it. People can grade a comic and have it sealed as a 9.8 and buy a crappy one from a store like yours and read it as much as they want. At the end of the day comics and cards or any other collectible will allways have a market to make money.

[@HavenForHeroes]

I don't know how long you've been in this business, but there's not always a market, especially for graded books. Good luck!

[@bigcease2274]

@@HavenForHeroes been doing it since 1990 when I was ten! Started collecting everything I liked from spawn#1, wildcats, spiderman, death of superman, xmen and so on. It payed off big time when the boom happened during the pandemic with comics and cards. I bought a new house, new cars, and still going strong! I still have a collection that I love and making deals till this day and it won't stop anytime soon! Good day sir!

[@KozysGhost]

I check 3 sources. I get a pretty good idea what a book is worth (to me). I don’t care about 4% of graded versus raw and blah, blah, blah. It’s not that complicated. Santa hates graded books which is great. I DO TOO. Let’s do our homework and we can get away from this nonsense.

[@HavenForHeroes]

Thanks for being part of the conversation. All of this has helped me to learn a lot

[@lashondaquirianderson]

I collected both raw and cgc

[@HavenForHeroes]

Thanks for be part of the conversation. People should collect how they feel. My opinions not the end all and be all

[@MarcoMasseria]

I really like your stuff. YOU GOTTA GET RID O' THAT MUSIC! Please.

[@HavenForHeroes]

Thank you so much! Sorry about the music. It's added to cover background noise from fans or refrigerators. We have tried to remove them from later videos.

[@MarcoMasseria]

@@HavenForHeroes Sorry because I know I came on strong. You're a voice we need to hear more from and I wanted to help you reach others. We got some [young] clowns out here in the space and being an 80s and 90s collector, to me YOU are the real deal. Stay strong man, this guy loves your work.

[@weaslepopper]

Everyone needs to remember one big fact,CGC is owned by BlackRock. The thing about grading comics is that it's a complicated subject. On one hand,it's grown the community,for good and bad. On the other hand,grading has,as you more or less said in the last video,led to a bunch of fuckery. As I see it,the biggest problem with all of the grading companies is that they will grade just about any book. Can't say that I blame them,because they are running a business,but not a single person give a shit about something like Darkhawk #8,Booster Gold #12,Shaman's Tears #3,or any other random ass modern book. So what we the community needs to do is collectively look in the mirror and realize that we brought most of this on ourselves and we need to stop sending shit books in to be graded. Grading has a place,but with "influencers" and speculators trying to take advantage of the uninitiated and ignorant,us wiser individuals need to be more vocal about the negatives and not let the noobies fall into the traps that those that are just in it for the money are laying out for them. Thanks for the videos.

[@HavenForHeroes]

Thank you so much for your input. This is really well thought out and makes a lot of great points. It's great to have you in the discussion

[@jthomascruz4890]

Sir, I am really glad I found your channel. I am enjoying how you are engaging the community in a dialog instead of just taking an adversarial point of view and basically calling everyone that disagrees with you names or shaming them for submitting their books for grading. We honestly need more people like you in the community. With open and honest dialog that isn't adversarial we invite more people into the hobby and can actually come up with real solutions that propel the hobby forward. Although I am still pro grading comics I have to admit I have been taking a step back from it as I think it can be worthwhile depending on what you are submitting. Submitting variants that just came out last week seems like a complete waste of time and money to me however, a key golden, silver, or bronze age book I think could be worth it.

[@HavenForHeroes]

Thank you so much. I'm really humbled by the reaction of the community. I really just love comics so much and want to create readers so that this hobby can last till the end of time

[@jonqu7041]

You seemed to have a big issue with the price of slabbing going up for expensive items. Simply put, one of the things you are “supposed” to get is a guarantee of correctness. It is supposed to protect future buyers from fakes or overgrading. In the coin world that is a very effective guarantee because coin prices tend to be more stable with many more documented transactions on similar items (the government might release 20 different coins per year, comics are hundreds of books a month). “Fair Market Value” is part of the CGC guarantee… and THAT is really the problem here, the “insurance” you are paying for is based on ephemeral numbers that are in no way an industry standard, and looking at the cgc policy, aligned solely with the interests of the company with no real Independant verification. If I bought a slabbed coin for $10,000 at auction, then I have established a fair market for it. The cgc policy seems to be “its value will be whatever we decide, and if that value seems too low, we will just throw another copy of the book into a slab and send you that”. For cheaper comics, that last part seems a great remedy, but for expensive books might be impossible, so you get their low ball price, not what you paid for the “fake”. All in all, it is kinda a scam, but only because fair market value is in their total control.

[@HavenForHeroes]

Tomorrow you make an incredibly important point which I missed. Thank you for bringing that to my attention. They kind of remind me of that Chris Farley movie. He talks about crapping in a box and slapping a guarantee on it. Welcome to the conversation and hence the community.

[@fabbrunette]

Nice video!

[@HavenForHeroes]

Thanks!

[@GreenvilleGo]

I am happy to pay well for a book i can check the grade on myself.. I just hate that plastic barrier.

[@HavenForHeroes]

It's exactly how I feel. Thanks for being part of the discussion

[@scottfarren7942]

Stop slabbing! Enjoy comics!!!!! Investors not lovers screwing up the hobby!

[@HavenForHeroes]

Hell yeah thanks for commenting and welcome aboard

[@JediFarce]

Dumb.

[@HavenForHeroes]

Okay