Judo is completely HELPLESS against wrestling?

This video discusses The classical Judo stance against techniques of wrestling.
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[@Chadi]

The Shohei Ono video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/aYanlWmcqdxlgKMsi=LJ2Vfisi_g5FLjc1

[@MrYou-n4f]

So exactly how is wrestling superior to judo?You never really explained it to me

[@sakissakis7992]

Jigoro Kano was teaching the upright fighting stance because when someone uses the bent over wrestling stance, is susceptible to atemi waza, at any moment.We must remember that the Judo in the old days was more towards self defense having in mind that in a street scenario, atemi waza is a part of a fight. Thank you.

[@KingOfSwords720]

Many people aren't aware of this because they're too one dimensional. The way grappling is taught today, no one is ready to get hit. At such a close distance, knees and elbows are devastating.

[@jaredmackey4511]

I agree with you that one should be mindful of strikes when thinking about their stance. But wouldn’t that be the same as saying an upright stance opens one up to lower body attacks? In my opinion, the reason judokas can use the upright stance is because of control from the gi. Changing levels becomes a lot more challenging if you’re having to grip and hand fight. Edit: Just saw where Chadi mentioned this towards the end of the video.

[@mrboy9658]

But you can see that freestyle wrestling still works in mma or street as well

[@marcosgarcia8544]

What is atemi waza?

[@AdventureThroughLife]

@@marcosgarcia8544 Striking techniques.

[@Coyoteinthedesert]

Cross trained in Judo and Wrestling Judo helped massively in Wrestling. I started Judo because I noticed all the best wrestlers in highschool were also very good Judokas the two Judokas in my highschool were 3rd in wrestling In the state wrestling tournament and the female was first and they were siblings

[@mrboy9658]

Sports sambo too very good to crosstrain with wrestling , because technically sports sambo is almost the same stuff that judo was before reforms . Vlad Koulikov proves that

[@lamesurfer1015]

Overrated might be the wrong word. I'd say "Hyper-popular" in the global sports community since it is the most practiced style of grappling/wrestling, followed by Freestyle.

[@francismurage895]

Khabib Nurmagomagodev(ufc) once said that judo was more superior to wrestling; we can trust him on that since he started as a wrestler

[@copicmarker1021]

@@francismurage895 He said that regarding the 'merit' of the gold medal for judo vs. wrestling

[@lancegoulet8100]

I trained wrestling to help my judo. One of my teammates was a junior (under 20 years old) national champion in judo and collegiate national champion in wrestling in the same year. A lot fo my judo teammates were great high school wrestlers and many of them wrestled in college.

[@SwordFighterPKN]

Do people not know that wrestlers do more than just shoot double legs? I wrestled mostly upper body, doing an occasional firemans or single leg, never did double legs but I could stop doubles. I worked out with Judo guys and it was even matches since we both did throws that were different.

[@kaizenproductions00]

Not to mention Greco Roman wrestling is ONLY upper body attacks

[@neowneow13]

Any tips on implimenting more upperbody attacks I seem to struggle with them more compared to your usual single or double legs How do you set them up from hand fighting?

[@SwordFighterPKN]

@@neowneow13 - I find the big key to upperbody is moving forward. You don't play paddy cake with hands, you close in. If you are used to shooting you like that distance and getting close is going to make you uncomfortable. I have found there are three types of people with take downs. Those that throw, those that shoot and those that sweep/trip. Everyone gets good at one, some are good at two; I've never meet someone that is good at all three.

[@pelejahosoba4032]

​@@SwordFighterPKNyou are exactly right brother,I suck at shooting but am a king at throws and quite good at sweeping,I'm a judoka so anything shooting I am not always to confident

[@rustyshackleford735]

@@neowneow13 I can tell you I use a lot of arm drags and Russian arm ties which leads to a lot of upper body, under hooks, wizzers, body locks goose-neck clinches, etc...come off of arm attacks.

[@3Mus-cat-tears]

Thanks Chadi. You actually remind me my randori with a Black Belt two weeks ago. I'm 36 a green belt and he is at his 20s and a Black belt. He was trying to throw me several times but everytime I use my hip defense to nullify his attack. It bought me some time to counter.

[@Chadi]

That’s awesome

[@BURGAWMMA]

The upright posture of Judo is absolutely genius... that coupled with the rice Bale throw makes wrestling a different game. The upright posture also converts to mixed martial arts much better than the bent over stance of other Combat Sports. I taught my high school wrestlers to stand up more straight and when someone tried to shoot for their legs hit them with a rice Bale throw or use your increased drop momentum to sprawl them flat. If you drop from a deeply squatted stance you don't have that much drop pressure but if you drop from nearly standing your weight hits much harder smashing their leg attack with a heavier Force!

[@marquisejoubert6129]

I’m someone who wrestled through highschool to D3 in college from the 189 LBS through Heavyweight. It’s funny because my coaches had the top 3 weight classes focus on upper body techniques for example my bread and butter was a headlock takedown into a reverse headlock takedown. I will say the Tawara Gaeshi Chadi showed is a move I’ve naturally come to use as a shoot defense except I try to turn all the way through and through in the legs

[@BURGAWMMA]

@@marquisejoubert6129 yes I couldn't agree more here's my version kzbin.info/www/bejne/eZ2ufn2sbNt9i5osi=RWkwxo9Fzj7k_h71

[@janosch7210]

hmm i'm not sure if i'm getting your take on that correctly. Let me sum it up. So, you're saying you learn your guys in wrestling the upright stance, since it transists better into mma and from there you can use your body weight and gravitation better to both defending incomming moves with like a full body weight sprawl or countering a incomming move with stuff like a rice bale throw, right? Then my question would be, how much utility does a rice bale throw bing to the table especially considering the setting of mma, since you will both be landing flat and noone of both fighters will have a dominant position for follow ups like GroundNPound or submissions? (considering you're not doing the single leg counter where you fully roll with your partner into mount, because they you'd have this advantageous position im talking about)...Care to elaborate?

[@BURGAWMMA]

@@janosch7210 as usual the "forms" style is practically worthless kzbin.info/www/bejne/eZ2ufn2sbNt9i5osi=biPl0hpZCgx4X4o0

[@ayam1maya]

@@janosch7210 I think the greatest utility comes from the original move pile-driving the head into the ground which obviously wouldn't be legal in sport which is another example of how sportification ruins martial arts.

[@mrboy9658]

"judo is not a wrestling" No dude , judo is actually a Japanese wrestling

[@k9m42]

It’s better than that!

[@kaizenproductions00]

Judo is a form of Jacket Wrestling (like Shuai Jiao, Irish Collar and Elbow, etc) and is in fact the most popular jacket wrestling style

[@mrboy9658]

@@k9m42 no .just another overrated style of jacket wrestling. All wrestling styles is VERY similiar , even gi and noGi

[@Rokudan-nn7ky]

Can’t see a wrestler wanting to break your arms or strangle you out judo is more technical because of the amount of throws and counters available because of the use of a gi

[@znail4675]

Not standing upright in wrestling is not only about protecting the legs as it's also done in greco roman wrestling. This is because if one is upright and the other is slightly crouched, then all that is needed is to grab the upright one and straighten up to remove contact from the ground making throwing pretty easy. The jacket does change that, but that is also why wrestling have an advantage when there is no jacket.

[@darthpunk3510]

As someone who has done both for over 15 years, I consider judo one of a very few styles that can rival it when it comes to takedowns, I also consider it an awesome art to cross train wrestling with, and if you do Greco Roman wrestling you will love and excel at judo.

[@ghostttriddder]

IMO, Judo always has the advantage in modern mma since the meta now is always going for the clinch.

[@1massboy]

Well I would say that if you only train either folkstyle or freestyle there could be an advantage for judo. But Greco Roman wrestling definitely is at least equal to if not slightly superior to judo for MMA.

[@SoldierDrew]

@@1massboy French wrestling (Greco-Roman) doesn't have ashi waza , hadaka jime nor submissions.

[@marquisejoubert6129]

@@1massboy i personally think the grapplers from folk style are better

[@badart3204]

@@1massboyI mean the Folkstyle guys do really well though. They are actually good at holding guys down unlike freestyle and Greco guys. Furthermore, if they are taken down they actually train getting back to the feet which is a massive blind spot in Judo

[@kaizenproductions00]

​@@badart3204Folkstyle control and pressure is good. I'm able to use some of mine in BJJ class

[@davidtice4972]

A friend of mine I trained with was a 3 times national Jr. wrestling champion and a high school state wrestling champion. He wrestled standing straight up.

[@thomasowen5785]

what? i need to see it to believe it. you're talking folkstyle?

[@fredazcarate4818]

Chadi you answered the questions perfectly.

[@Pifagorass]

Yes, no-Gi judo practitioner vs freestyle wrestler with similar experience - judo would lose dominance. The only problem with wrestling is no training on submitting an opponent. Wrestling + BJJ is the golden combo for no striking fighting ❤

[@tichtran664]

No submission in wrestling except for catch wrestling.

[@guillermomaguire5394]

From experience, Judo and wrestling are extremely complimentary. From gi to no gi, shots to throws, blocks to leg sweeps, they are good for each other.

[@k9m42]

With cloths on or a GI, shooting on legs is much more difficult. It is a lot easy to control a person and defend leg shots when grabbing their jacket or shirt. That’s why Judo practice is better for self defense than wretched. Especially with chokes and arm bars.

[@MrCmon113]

People typically run around in pyjamas?

[@MatthewNguyen-zx3de]

@@MrCmon113 Peopld don't typically run around in skin tight rash guards, mankinis or swimming trunks either. We usually wear shirts. You can grab a shirt and throw with it.

[@RitzCaraldo]

In My first wrestling tournament a coach from.another team (that i had never met) came to me at half and asked if i did judo. I was puzzled and said yes. He replied with STOP DOING JUDO. He then gave me a quick recap on the wrestling stance and i went back at it. Once i got into wrestling a bit more i did pretty good with some big throws. Did well with ashiwaza as well. Love both sports.

[@marlondjuma1]

Wrestler are explosieve, and they have stamina and power.. judokas are strong too

[@YesitisDex]

Unfortunately unless the wrestler has a Gi top on, we MAY have a “hard time” to grab them. Yes, the clench but then it’s no gi and (IMO) no gi is “wrestling” Fk I love this sport 🤩

[@doolbedolc]

Depends because there are many hybrid styles of judo mixed with wrestling and bjj. In fact, david Camarillo teaches a variation of it.

[@MrCmon113]

That's irrelevant to the sports themselves. It's irrelevant to your decision, as an adult, of what you should learm.

[@YesitisDex]

LOL@@MrCmon113

[@AmericanMadeMud]

As someone who practiced both Judo and wrestling I assure you neither is better than the other.

[@silkplayer9]

Check out GSP vs Karo fight.

[@martinlaser7819]

The wrestling throw on the right picture was also a favourite grip of Anton Geesink, who was also a tall but in his prime not very heavy, (super) heavy weight.

[@PicaPauDiablo1]

Excellent as always

[@christpower5402]

Chadi,, let’s do more in regards to these types of things please.

[@thomasowen5785]

Wrestlers don't just lean over because of a lack of grips (though that may be part of it), it's because an important part of shooting in on a takedown is the "level change" where you drop down to breach the opponent's defense. If your defense is based low, the opponent's level change will have to be more exaggerated, and if you decide to shoot, you're already half way there

[@mizutxko]

Wrestlers are extremely explosive, and Judoka's are freak chimp strong

[@JUDOKA_JACK]

I’ve done both. Wrestling has helped me at 1.5 years doing judo beat 3rd and 5th Dan judokas

[@Crixxtachi868]

Good explanations. And as usual, screw the ijf.

[@danielperna467]

When I did judo leg grabbing was part of it, I think it's absurd not to have it anymore and was done for wrong reasons.

[@alextop1850]

Judo Wrestling and Combat Jui Jitsu should be formed into 1 art

[@AW-gg3yw]

William Fairbairn, a British policeman in Shanghai who trained WW2 soldiers in hand to hand combat, was originally a wrestler and then became obsessed with judo as it was far more practical for his job. I thought this was odd as you constantly hear wrestling is superior, but if people are fully clothed, usually wearing jackets in most countries then judo would be far more effective when out in public.

[@themightykabool]

Keyvwords: If And Fully clothed. Family Guy and deaf naked guy comes to mind. Hahha

[@dannielsoto7410]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't having a base in Greco roman Wrestling be more beneficial when transferring into Judo, than it would be having a freestyle/folkstyle base?

[@thomaslutz2815]

You can have a look on Shuai Jiao matches. Leg grapping is allowed, still a very upright position is usually maintained.

[@guy5140]

When judo allowed leg grabbing techniques the stance was more bent over, hips back, like wrestlers. You can look up the old videos.

[@davidtarantino152]

If knees and kicks to the face were allowed would wrestlers and BJJ guys bend over? I think Judo and Greco stances lend themselves to MMA and all the elements of wrestling and BJJ follow after at least some contact is made.

[@MrCmon113]

You level change the moment you start wrestling anyways. But yeah I guess if you can't do any mma training, it's probably good to wrestle from upright position a but as well.

[@lancegoulet8100]

Yes, judoka would still adopt an upright posture. Leg grabs used to be allowed - there is throw called morote gari in the shimesho no waza. As for pushing your hips forward, that is something we practiced a lot in judo. Utsuri goshi is a technique that when done as a counter uses that hip defense. You use a similar motion when you sprawl in wrestling to defend a shot. You do not pull your hips back, you push your hips forward and throw your legs back and drop your center of gravity to the floor. Just as you mention a sprawl is really just the hop defense you learn in judo. Also, the bent over stance wrestlers take is not very practicle in a self-defense situation. You very rarely see mma fighters adopt that stance because you are open to knee strikes to your face or elbow strikes to the top and back of your head and your back. It is also not a very good stance to throw strikes from. The judo posture is a better self defense posture.

[@razz9431]

thats kind of like saying "the tradiotional wrestling stance is bad against muay thai because you could just knee him to the face" OBVIOUSLY if different rules exist the stance changes

[@boogboog8097]

The traditional upright stance in judo is because the grappling and throwing of old KoRyu JuJutsu was developed for combat use where you would end up in a clinch because you crashed into each other while fighting with swords, look at Kendo and how often they end up in close quarters.

[@krisswegemer1163]

How many finishing moves do wrestlers know?

[@armanmartikian]

Looking at physics percpective, you’re able to maintain better balance fighting upright. Even when leg grabs were allowed in judo, japanese athletes always had ghe straight posture and dominated the world as they still do :) 🇯🇵

[@gamingdragon1356]

Judokas almost always beat wrestlers. Judo is the most practical unarmed self defense martial art in existense because you can beat a physically stronger opponent.

[@reinsein518]

You did not answer the question! If we have two identical clones, 1 Wrestler 1 Judoka, with no Gi the Wrestler wins 10/10 times, with Gi the Judoka wins 10/10 times

[@gabreshaa8234]

3:01 I did as you said and put my hand on my cats stomach. Now it is purring and jumped onto my lap. Does that happen in judo as well?

[@henrikg1388]

I couldn't agree more. The upright posture is so essential from a martial perspective, that Kano was right in separating the Kosen rules from mainstream Kodokan. While I do not agree with all the late silly rule changes, and even leglocks in some form should've always been allowed, Kosen/BJJ is just a fit for a 1v1 rule fight. Not for a true encounter.

[@Chadi]

🙇🏻‍♂️

[@yanwain9454]

mma is the sport where different disciplines compete under minimal rules. you can't just take another sport and say "yeah but what if wrestlers were allowed to shoot a single leg takedown? HA!" .......like obviously Novak Djokovic would have a really hard time winning in tennis if Jon Jones was allowed to poke him in the eye, but that's not what he's training for. if that was part of tennis, then he would train differently to deal with it.

[@bruceparker6142]

Look at the sport sambo posture.

[@bruceparker6142]

@@Reflectionmaterial Strikes allowed in combat sambo.

[@jestfullgremblim8002]

​@@bruceparker6142i mean, Judo (just like Aikido) was meant to be used against strikes. Just look at videos of Judo throws being used against strikers, they always look so clean! It's because that's how they were always supposed to be used

[@bruceparker6142]

@jestfullgremblim8002 Fair enough, but judo tournaments are strictly grappling and IJF rules do not allow leg grabs. Rules affect the way games a played.

[@jestfullgremblim8002]

@@bruceparker6142 indeed, that's one of the bad things about these sports. But at least they allow the practitioners to use their techniques against good opponents in a safe enviroment

[@bruceparker6142]

@Reflectionmaterial As I understand it, the topic of the video was about modern-day judo vs. wrestling and, in particular, the lack of leg grabs in IJF judo. A question was put on whether the upright judo stance would change if leg grabs were reintroduced. I referenced sport sambo because it's "Russian judo" with leg grabs. When you look at sport sambo, you see they tend to be more bent over than IJF judokas.

[@jackofalltrades8099]

I want to start wrestling or judo. Im almost 30. Which one is easier on the body? Where am I going to get less likely Injured?

[@ruggeddrelouris3597]

But I have a special request, maybe with neil adams helping you lol, could you do a video of the top 5 or 10 judokas in each Europe countries of all time ? ....

[@Igor-my6ml]

Judo is awesome but everything is helpless against wrestling

[@hannorasmusholtiegel6044]

Oh man, if only judo brought back the leg grabs and some other banned throws. It's so sad to see judo become a sport and less of a martial art fight for a fight. Same thing happened to Taekwondo and karate. Judo needs to return to it's roots.

[@marco10832]

There’s no one in the world who will not progress and absolutely love cross training bjj, judo and wrestling. Ask 3 of those experts how to hip toss and get ready for three answers that are awesome and accurate. Apply the one you can do well to your rules and enjoy.

[@pabloasecas2687]

Cuando yo hacía judo se podían agarrar las piernas y era algo que yo aprovechaba bastante. En mi opinión este cambio de reglas aleja aún más al judo de la lucha real y me parece un error

[@ВасяПупкин-ц9е4ы]

Thank you 👍👏

[@GrinningNimbus]

If striking isn't allowed judo is no match. I find wrestlers tend to be way more athletic also. But if striking is allowed and you learn to sprawl judo is still best in my opinion. I learned some muay thai and I just bully people in mma. The biggest weakness I've found for judo is giving up your back and reflexivly turtling.

[@GrinningNimbus]

@@Reflectionmaterial it doesn't take much adjusting to get used to no gi grips. Yes it is different but some throws are easier to land no gi. For example I can't land harai goshi in judo but I can spam it in no gi settings. My basis for wrestlers being more athletic is when I went to a wrestling gym for 1 day I was sore for 2 weeks after and whenever a wrestler comes to my judo club they seem to never break a sweat and they're always tough to deal with especially in ne waza. Wrestling gyms are like boot camps from what I've seen and heard. Pretty much non stop action with no breaks and a 100% effort until victory mentality which a lot of other martial artists lack because they're hobbiests and not competitors. Even mma guys tend to be more relaxed in training from my experience.

[@acquiesce100]

Just watched the catch wrestler defeat Ryron Gracie on KZbin.

[@kidbrag7188]

in street fight shirt will get ripped unless its a coat. Winter time judo is very effective. Summertime wrestling maybe . Bend over to pick up , stand & slam. Both are very effective though .

[@Peter-wl3tm]

In summer time a judoka just going to switch to overhooks underkooks and head locks

[@josedanielherrera7115]

Aleksandr Karelin would like a word

[@ronin2167]

Single or double leg take downs are easily defended. I recall a stupid incident between me and my friend who was my next door neighbor. He wrestled in high school and I had been doing Judo for about 8 months. He tried a double leg on me and I just flat palmed him in the back of the neck as he shot in. He face planted into the dirt (we were outside). I took off running after that. LOL I actually picked up this move from a comic book martial arts course I bought. ROFLMAO

[@jameslyons6655]

What are you training for? If you are training for self defense I would argue that judo is the better choice. Yes, a skilled wrestler would be formidable but wrestling has a similar problem to bjj for self defense in that many of their takedowns are intended for the initiator to end up on the ground with the other person. This is not ideal for self defense. Very frequently when you are in a street altercation there are other interested parties around and purposefully putting yourself there on the ground makes you extremely vulnerable. There are a great number of judo throws that leave the other party on the ground while the initiator remains standing. Judo allows you to follow to the ground and finish if you must but you can also reassess and/or depart if that is the better course of action. The strength of wrestling is that the superior wrestler dictates where the fight takes place. If the wrestler wants to keep it standing his takedown defense keeps it there, if he wants it on the ground that’s where it is going. In either case make sure you have some boxing or Muay Thai to round yourself out. And avoid altercations whenever you can. Train safe.

[@ruggeddrelouris3597]

Chadi even though I kinda disagree with you this video I still love all your videos...

[@christianrodriguez7749]

Los judokas son fáciles de vencer una vez te enfrentas a uno los digo como alguien que ha enfrentado a esos tipos en varias ocasiones, aunque irónicamente terminaron moldeando mi estilo de lucha pues pase de hacer uso total de lucha grecorromana a una especie de híbrido entre lucha libre y greco, pues lucho en greco y defiendo al modo de los librista, pues me acostumbré a tratar de evitar los barridos que suelen hacer los judokas, pero diré que encontré similitudes entre ambos deportes, pues el Judo es como lucha grecorromana pero centrado en sujetar la ropa siendo la diferencia que en licha derribado y en judo arrojas osea en licha como que lo redirija al suelo, pero en judo veo que literal es como si te arrancarán del suelo.

[@flyingmonkey3822]

Hips pushing = sprawl

[@ruggeddrelouris3597]

Like France top 10 in order, England, Russia, Poland and etc, countries with a small judo pool would get a 1-5 list lol

[@ruggeddrelouris3597]

Greco was there before freestyle and judo, Greco Roman wrestling has a upright posture with no LEG GRABS, oh yeah by the way it was the first kind of wrestling right ?

[@dhimankalita1690]

No it's was not first kind of wrestling. The origin of wrestling is not from a single country. Many ancient civilization had wrestling

[@MatthewNguyen-zx3de]

Greco roman was invented by top hat wearing frenchmen. They named it that for marketability.

[@maxb5957]

Max was here

[@jimmyu-nh3pg]

i have a question, i saw old videos of judokas tournaments and they still had upright posture but back then leg grabs were still in can u explain why is that? thank you chadi.

[@souhildouida9846]

He already explained that .because if you didn't stand upright you will give your opponent especially if he is a good judoka more chance to throw you and bring your head done while rotating because you are bent over

[@gladiumcaeli]

The gi, gripping makes it easier to defend leg grabs

[@MatthewNguyen-zx3de]

Because people make a giant stink of leg grabs without understanding the basics of jacket wrestling. Leg attacks are easy to do in No-gi specifically because everything is so slippery. Where the lapel and sleeve control is something you can hold for an entire Judo match, overhooks and collar ties are extremely transient. If your gi is grabbed, its super hard to get down for a takedown- hell you can see this in Sambo too, they don't have much leg grabbing despite the rules allowing it. Leg grabs are almost like a no-gi unique fighting style lol.

[@SoldierDrew]

Collegiate Folk Wrestlers claim their Wrestling is superior to Judo until they actually attempt to knee drag across pavement or asphalt while shooting for a leg . I've seen a wrestler during the 90s bust his knee while attempting that on asphalt in a street altercation.

[@movietribe2048]

Ce n'est pas la méthode qui fait l'efficacité mais le pratiquant

[@jonathanmunozespinoza]

En lo personal, el judo es mejor que la lucha en casi todo. Entre las escasas desventajas que encuentro en general del Judo ante la Lucha Libre es el tiempo que toma aprender las técnicas, en ése sentido la lucha es más simple y rápida de aprender, otra sería el enfoque mismo de la practica, me refiero a las reglas de competencia. Quiero aclarar que en dojo donde practico Judo se enfatiza menos en lo deportivo como sí en lo puramente combativo. Por lo demás y la experiencia que tengo haciendo ambos deportes, el Judo me ha resultado de mucha utilidad en mi practica de lucha pero no así usando lucha en Judo, incluso entre los compañeros de lucha que saben que hago Judo y el instructor, me han pedido enseñarles a caer, en pocas academias de lucha se enseña a caer y cuando se enseña es porque directamente fue tomado del Judo.

[@osmondportifoy6332]

Wrestling against a skilled Judo player reveals ALL of the limitations found in wrestling, just like Jiu Jitsu reveals all the limitations in Judo and how Muay Thai reveals all the limitation in Tae Kwon Do.

[@SpodyOdy]

The low hunch stance in wrestling to me is less about grips and more about head positioning and having to react less to be in position for defense. The Gi changes everything it’s easier to stop a shot’s momentum with Gi grips etc. to me Gi is closer to self defense unless your at the beach shirtless etc. 🤔😎👍

[@emZee1994]

One thing that is neglected in the gi or no-gi for self defence discussion is climate. If I lived in Russia I would train exclusively in the gi, because everyone is going to be wearing jackets most of the year. But where I live (Australia) I almost never even wear a long sleeve shirt let alone a jacket. The only time I have a jumper is very early in the morning during winter because I get up early for work. Even at night if I'm dressing up I will wear a long sleeve collared shirt but modern clothing isn't baggy and loose like a gi. So I think grabbing it would not be that easy actually, and it might just rip So for the climate I live in, training gi for self defence is not a good idea. I'd most likely never have the chance to use those techniques Besides, learning how to break a grip is something you can learn in about a hour. It's not complicated. Not to mention that anyone who grabs you is not protecting their face, which you are now free to punch Lastly I want to mention something, no-gi techniques work in the gi. But gi techniques don't work in no-gi. So imo, unless you live in a very cold environment, no-gi will be more useful

[@jahvauntaecolbert4422]

I don't think so

[@f1r3hunt3rz5]

This is a somewhat clickbaity title. Throughout my life, I've seen judokas and wrestlers go toe to toe and they're pretty even. Traditional judo, that is.

[@aldocesar3599]

No noEn El JUDO Hay un concepto de AYUDA Recíproca Es Ceder y El RANDORI ES SOLO un instante y la CAMARADERIA ES HASTA LOS 103 AÑOS *(ES.DECIR que es un sistema de.vida)Mientras que en la LUCHA LIBRE se trata de ganar todas la luchas*El judo Olimpico no es JUDO!!!!

[@محمدحمو-ك7ظ]

شادي أنت عربي!؟

[@andrewblack7852]

Nature has no defense and offense. It’s just one. If your sport has the split, it’s not natural.

[@АлександрОстроверхий-с5я]

Это не корректно звучит. Дзю-до это тоже борьба с хорошими бросками и болевыми...

[@markdaniels4178]

Judo does shoot for legs but not i judo ternimamemts

[@pepperpeterpiperpickled9805]

I'd love to know how many dislikes tihs got from judo-bros lol

[@martinlaser7819]

Kimura and Yamashita 1982 The relative young Yamashita has great respect for the old star So: Kimura: ... It couldn't have been easy to become such a strong man. Yamashita: Well I guess so [Yamashita answers affirmatively but hesitantly, as though he hadn't really thought too much about it before]. Me, after all, when I was a middle-school student I learned judo from a teacher named Shiraishi-sensei (白石先生). Would you happen to be familiar with him at all? Note. Kimura and Yamashita were both from Kumamoto). Shiraishi-sensei was Shiraishi Reisuke (白石礼介), who was the second of Yamashita's three judo teachers, according to Yamashita's 1991 book 山下闘魂の柔道: 必勝の技と心, p. 18. His first teacher in Kumamoto was Fujitsubō Hiyonobu (藤壺清喜), and his teacher in Tokyo at Tokai Daigaku (東海大学) was Satō Nobuyuki　佐藤宣践). Fujitsubō sensei's first name is uncertain but probably was pronounced Hiyonobu. Kimura: I know him. He was a skinny man. Yamashita: Yes. He was small. The first thing Shiraishi-sensei) told me, you know, the first thing he said was, "you, now you're big, but in the future when you are representing Japan in the world, you won't be big." I was already big in middle-school. By my first year I weighed almost 100 kg. Even if you are big there are judo techniques that can be applied by grabbing from above and rolling. A small person who is running away is the easiest to grab (取りやすい). That's what I did. I was told it wouldn't work against a big opponent. Instead you can (or should) grab from underneath, and change the grips (組み手). Note. Yamashita recounted in his 1991 book 山下泰裕闘魂の柔道　(p. 19) that he was 78 kg when he entered middle-school and weighed 120 kg during his third year. Kimura: Yeah. Yamashita: That is said to be an effective technique even against a big opponent. Harai-goshi, you know. If your timing is good, it's possible to throw a big man. But if he's a considerably big man, it's difficult. Kimura: That's true. Yamashita: That means it's good for a big man to use harai-goshi to throw a smaller man, but the opposite isn't true. Shiraishi-sensei told me never to try to throw a big man with harai-goshi. Kimura: That's a good teacher. From a middle-school and high-school coach's point of view, you should use your favorable physical attributes to win matches. That's quite a good thing. Yamashita: In my case, I think it always worked well for me. Kimura: There's no need to be concerned about having your harai-goshi countered. You can feel secure. It's ok to go that way. Your teacher was a good teacher for correcting what you were doing. Also you made a big effort. It wasn't easy. To throw big guys with harai-goshi. Yamashita: It was tough for me in middle-school. In primary school in Kumamoto-ken, (?) was first-ranked. In Kumamoto City there was a teacher, Shiraishi sensei. All of the older student/judokas in the judo club were strong. In my primary school in the countryside. I won the championship. I was even successful against middle school students there.. Kimura: Probably. Yamashita: That middle school was the best of the best. So, whenever I tried to throw someone, they threw me instead. 笑 Well, I suppose that's natural, right? Anyway it was a shock for me the first time it happened. Kimura: Yes. Yamashita: The, at that time, one of my school-friends [or judo club teammates] had a copy of the book written by Kimura sensei. The friend treated it as a valuable possession. I had never heard about you because I lived in the countryside. He showed me the book. Then lent me the book and I read it. You wrote about ōsoto-gari and various things. For sure, I read about punching a pillar (or post, 柱) and a tree, with the sound of "gan gan, gan gan". Gosh, I was naive in middle-school. When I went home, the pillar/post of my house, it was rectangular. The edges were sharp and painful. I wrapped it with a bath towel. 笑 I was living apart from my parents, with my grand-dad. My grand-dad went to bed early and got up at 4:00 a.m. After going to bed I exercised my arm without thinking about anything. For sure sensei [Kimura] withered a tree [by punching it to train his arms]. Note. Yamashita mentions that his 同級生 dōkyūsei, had Kimura's book and treated it as a precious possession. Dōkyūsei means classmate but under these circumstances he was probably a judo club team-mate. Yamashita respectfully addresses and refers to Kimura throughout the taidan as sensei, or Kimura sensei. Kimura: Well, even a little at a time, it all adds up. I did it today. Yamashita: when you were active, how much did you weigh? How many kilos? Kimura: 85 [kg]. One time, I weighed 87. More than that, I'm, too heavy, I can't move quickly. At my height, 85 kg is exactly right. But I once threw a guy who weighed 201 kg. Yamashita: 201 kg!? Was that your biggest opponent? Kimura: Yes. That was at a pro wrestling venue in São Paulo . The guy was both huge and covered with muscles. I heard he was strong so I trained one time with him, for the chance to experience such an enormous powerful man. I threw him with seoi-nage several times. The next morning, I couldn't move, my back. During the training I heard strange sounds. I thought my back was broken. That's how heavy he was. Yamashita: You lifted 201 kg completely onto your shoulders. Kimura: After that I hoped I wouldn't have to do it again. 笑 By the way, one of your teachers was Satō Nobuyuki 佐藤宣践 if I'm not mistaken. He was a great man. Yamashita: Yes. Note. When Yamashita was a student at the Sagami High School attached to Tokai University [東海大付属相模高校], he trained at the Tokai University Judo club, which was supervised by Satō Nobuyuki. Kimura: Don't be arrogant. He told you not to be arrogant, if I'm not mistaken. Yamashita: That's right. That was the first thing I was told when I transferred schools. Kimura: Yeah. Yamashita: When I transferred to the new school, everyone had only positive things to say to me. About the same as now. Like you, but not to the same degree. I was taught that many athletes before me had been strong, but they didn't stay strong. There were two reasons for that. One was being arrogant. There was a commotion around. The person takes the acclaim too seriously and skimps on training and gets a long nose. I was safe because anytime I became arrogant my teacher broke my nose. That teacher didn't flatter me. Another thing was injuries. No matter your attributes, or how strong you are, you can't defeat injuries. Therefore, do not neglect the warm-up exercises. And be careful to avoid injuries in daily life. These are the two bits of advice that are given to promising athletes who are being fussed over by adoring fans. Even today, I always keep these words in mind. Note. Having a long nose, or being a goblin [tengu, 天狗] in Japan means being arrogant. Kimura: Right. When you are feeling good, and relaxed, and not training seriously [half-playing training, 遊び半分稽古]. When you finish training, you go somewhere and play, your mind wanders that's when an injury happens. I know what you mean. That sucks. That reminds me, when I was a student-------[goes off on a tangent]---Obina Den, the actor. He was a friend of mine. We were talking a stroll in Ginza . Then, you know, like, we were just mobbed by fans. People lined up. They wanted autographs. I was more popular than Obina Den. Like you are, now. Judo was extremely popular. Anywhere I went, people offered to buy me drinks and meals. I didn't need money. I started to believe the hype about me. I became a bit arrogant. If you get arrogant, your skills level will drop. If you are a 5-dan, you'll be a 4-dan. If you are a 4-dan, you'll be a 3-dan. When you go to Kodokan, you won't be able to execute even the basic techniques. It isn't just a temporary "slump." You're real ability is actually declining. That's what happens when you're overconfident. Note. Obina Den 大日向伝, 1907-1980. Lived in Brazil and Hawaii . Yamashita: Yes.

[@martinlaser7819]

Yamashita meets Kimura 1982 I am not Japanese. I believe that they have also humour. But I don't want to comment (Bluming once characterized the Japanese stories. - Herrigel also.) ... Yamashita: I understand. By the way, as I thought, when you were active in competition, your posture was probably upright. Kimura: Yup. It was upright. But the same as you, like this [demonstrates]. Leaning back [のけぞりはしなかった]. To some extent leaning to the side. I grabbed from above.　I grabbed the opponents neck [頚椎] with my right hand.　Then I pulled the opponent's neck forward. The opponent will try to resist in the opposite direction. Because the normal human psychological reaction is to resist in the opposite direction. He will end up coming closer. Yamashita: Aa, I see. Kimura: Then the opponent is afraid of ōuchi-gari or some other technique, he senses danger both coming in and going away in a direct line. So he moves to the side. What I want to say is, gripping from above, it's a battle for neck control. Yamashita: Yes. Kimura: To do that, I practice karate on a tree, as we talked about. I did training to toughen myself up. Like this. Then when I grab from above the opponent I will never be pulled up from below. I piled muscles onto my bones [he rubs his arm]. Yamashita: If someone holds from the bottom and can't even lift it up, he has no chance of winning.. Kimura: Right, right. So I said "yoosh," grabbed a carving knife, went to his house, and barged in without being invited or knocking. Then I snapped to my senses. What the f*ck am I doing!? I thought to myself. If I kill him here his parents will certainly be unhappy. So instead I decided to try to develop a new technique. Note. Higo [肥後] is the old name for Kumamoto where both Kimura and Yamashita came from. Yamashita: That must have been frustrating. Kimura: I did it to make my ashi-koshi stronger because I hate to lose. Note. Ashi-koshi: Lower body, legs and waist, 足腰. For Kimura the key to winning was having strong legs and waist. Previously, above, he stressed that he also trained his arms. Although he didn't mention chest and shoulder development in the taidan, his book Oni no Judo 鬼の柔道, p. 97 included pictures of him doing bench presses with heavy weights

[@ruggeddrelouris3597]

Judo is both jiu-jitsu & wrestling,

[@kevionrogers2605]

​@@optimusmaximus9646taught only in Kata.

[@ruggeddrelouris3597]

@@optimusmaximus9646 elements of both jarbroni lol

[@shamilakhmedov3571]

Дзюдо прекрасно работает против соперника использующего сетку для упора спиной против атакующего соперника. Вольная, борьба в этом случае не работает. А с помощью дзюдо атакующий прекрасно может сбить с ног подсечками, зацепами ног, бросками с обвивом опорной ноги соперника стоящего спиной к сетке октагона. Вольный борец в такой ситуации оказывается в патовой ситуации, и может выйти из нее лишь с большой потерей сил.

[@shamilakhmedov3571]

Самый умеый вид борьбы. Требует высокого iq

[@dextersdad6920]

Real judo SMASHES wrestling

[@tichtran664]

Not against the catch wrestlers. Ad Santel DEFEATED the judokas. Even at Quintet one the catch wrestlers defeated the judokas.

[@dextersdad6920]

@@tichtran664 on average judo smashes wrestling. Anecdotal shit doesn‘t matter nor count. Judokas come into the sport of wrestling and smashe them never seen wrestlers on average do the same

[@MrCmon113]

"Real" Judo, lol. You only have so many local Judo and Wrestling clubs.

[@thiccbutterballs9001]

Wrestling vs judo. It just depends if you wear a gi or not. With gi judo has the advantage No gi wrestler has the advantage

[@bless_you_361]

As a wrestler, the judo stance is absolutely brilliant on hard surfaces, also for efficiency and counter throws

[@1_Bad_Z]

It's good, once you clinch since a double and single would be awkward or lost of opportunity when the distance has been closed. Ive seen Judo black belts that had Wrestled in high school/ College; dominate other Judo black belts.

[@beingmediocre]

I'm a judo player... because wrestling wasn't a thing in my area when I was younger. Love coming up against wrestlers because I don't know what I'm gonna get. So much to learn from each, it's just all grappling

[@InspiredObservance67]

@@beingmediocre the picture when you click the video makes me laugh

[@BURGAWMMA]

Judo does not "shoot" for legs, What Judo does is called a "snatch" in wrestling terminology "shooting" is when you put your knee down and commit to the step through!

[@jestfullgremblim8002]

True that!

[@SoldierDrew]

Correct.

[@slothmaster101]

Wrestling teaches you how to knee walk. Judo doesn't. However, Aikido teaches knee walking. Weird right?

[@BURGAWMMA]

@@slothmaster101 WOAH 🤔💥

[@jestfullgremblim8002]

@@slothmaster101 exactly lol

[@markogregorin9423]

Last week I watched the European Championship, and most Judokas fight bent over, using techniques like Pasatka (variant of Kata-guruma). The point is simple, bring back the old Judo, just stick to proper judging, "passive attack is punishment", we all know what negative Judo is, and that's it.

[@retroghidora6767]

I think an interesting follow up video to this would be one exploring the stances used in various jacket/clothing styles of European wrestling, especially any that allow leg grabs.

[@marlondjuma1]

I think if you combine, wrestling with judo than you become a ultimate grappler. Listen wrestling = strength and explosion and stamina . While judo = strength and endurance but wrestling too.

[@jestfullgremblim8002]

Yes indeed! But that's if you practice Judo as a full art! Because many schools barely do any Ne Waza which is very important

[@MrCmon113]

If you just want strength and endurance, save your money and just exercise by yourself.

[@NoRockinMansLand]

Judo is very explosive as well

[@JudoHighlights2015]

One of the greatest quotes I heard was from Satoshi Ishii. I think it was in a Donmai video. He said the rule change to remove leg grabs was absolutely BS because wrestlers had all the opportunities in the world up until that point to win plenty of world judo titles and Olympic medals. But you know what happened? The judokas won most of the time.

[@Chadi]

100%

[@NoRockinMansLand]

For some reason people still think wrestlers easily beat judokas

[@1massboy]

OK I don’t know whether the headline on this video is Just some kind of Clickbait. But watching the video I do very much agree with everything that you said. Being able to check someone with your hips and your legs can be huge both in judo and in wrestling. Wrestling does take it one step further with sprawling because more often than not unless you’re doing Greco-Roman wrestling someone is going to shoot on you. But going back to the headline is judo defenseless against wrestling? Absolutely not. You just have to be able to modify your training in order to be prepared for those situation’s. Learning how to sprawl should be essential learning for most grappling martial arts whether you use it all the time or not. It’s a great way To train your body to throw those hips forward.

[@tichtran664]

Except judo keep losing to, at least, the catch wrestlers. From the days of Ad Santel to the first Quintet

[@MatthewNguyen-zx3de]

@@tichtran664 Submission grappling is a different beast.

[@MatthewNguyen-zx3de]

@@tichtran664 Submission grappling is a different beast. Regular wrestlers lose there too. Its a BJJ/Catch Wrestling/Submission Wrestling fest. You never see Sambo amount to much in it either, yet they don't get shit. Takedown focused arts are just not good in submission rules.

[@mizukarate]

The sprawl is a great defense with leg takedowns(single and double). The wrestling stance of bending over is only done in transition in street fights. For example when in a fight you clinch you may go into this stance briefly.

[@martinlaser7819]

Concerning Bodybuilding, Yamashita had a similar problem as the weightlifting Olympic champion Matthias Steiner or even the Shot putter Ralf Reichenbach who lost their upper body size when they sized down even when they made bodybuilding. That's because they took their force from the whole body which was connected to their body weight, from the core of the body, which is much stronger than strong arms. If you compare the competitors of the first Strongman contests you will see the different kinds of raw strength and power. The Bodybuilders won the bar bend, the Throwers could not show their explosivity developed just through their body acceleration and the most massive guys were the strongest in pulling a carriage ... There is often the question who is stronger: Eddie or Lasha ? In the past they would have said: Lasha, now they say: Eddie. The Americans are professionals, the Sowjets were (Olympic amateurs who have to keep the rules, like Alexejev). A human is the "animal" with the most upright posture - for a reason. The equilibrium is achieved by lots of side muscles that stabilise the posture. On the ground these muscles are relieved. This is also the difference between Olympic weightlifting (even the former Clean and Press) and the Benchpress. Alexeyev explained that the Sowjets overcame the Americans by far in strength. After the break down of the Sowjets the American style could be sold better. However, now we have a lot of 3rd world nations in the international sports community who bring their own style into the game. (Fichi islands in Rugby is a good example, Jamaica in Sprint ... Hawaii in Sumo).

[@chrisbera7952]

Be interesting to see the comparison with Greco Roman wrestling. Probably way more similar to judo defenses.

[@MatthewNguyen-zx3de]

GR and Judo do not have much in common. You got a lot more you can do with Judo, so a Judoka wins more than not.

[@galacticforge77]

So, leg grabs were removed from Olympic judo, because when the 2012 Olympic games in London were approaching, there was a real threat that judo was going to be removed from the Olympics, because the question was asked "What's the difference between judo and wrestling, and why do we need both?" so the International Judo Federation (IJF) changed judo's rules, to try and differentiate it from wrestling, so that judo could stay in the Olympics. One of those rules was that leg grabs were removed, and as such, techniques involving leg grabs, such as Sakui Nage (Scooping Throw), Morote Gari (Two Hand Reap) and the traditional Kata Guruma (Shoulder Wheel) could no longer be used. I wouldn't say judo is "helpless" against wrestling, I think it depends on the context. For example, if a wrestler enters a judo competition and uses only their wrestling, they may not do very well... likewise, if a judoka (judo practitioner) enters a wrestling competition and attempts to only use their judo, the judoka will probably not do very well, either. On a personal level, in 2010 when I was a green belt in judo, I entered a competition interstate for judo, competing in the senior men's -100kg division. As there weren't enough competitors in my weight class, we were shifted up to the +100kg open division. One of our opponents was a yellow belt in judo, brand new to judo, but he was a national champion at Greco Roman wrestling. When he and I competed against one another, I won the match, but he won "the fight" - he was not only heavier and stronger than me, but I had never competed against a wrestler before, so it was a rough-as-guts experience for me... in fairness, if this person had more experience in judo, as well as a better understanding of judo's rules, I believe he would have beat me in the match, as well.

[@iamshredder3587]

Why do people talk about inanimate things like judo and wrestling as if theyre living beings that can fight and defeat one another?🤪😄

[@ezsmith3765]

I’ve seen some high level Wrestlers get straight up THROWN by Judokas in MMA so 🤷🏼‍♂️ Karo Parisyan from back around the TUF1 era .... that guy was damn good. That’s one example of many. Look at the throws he did to Josh Burkman. Josh wasn’t like a Kurt Angle, John Smith level Wrestler, but he was probably in the top 8%-10% in the US at that time. And Karo straight up RAGDOLLED Burkman up one side and down the other. Im that thinking Burkmans Teebus probably shrunk a couple of inches during that ordeal he was forced to endure.

[@JapaneseAmericanaJiuJitsu]

Jigoro Kano's original system was great, Judo is wonderful when the art is practiced fully, newaza and all the throws (none of that BS from IFJ or the Olympics). I dare say it was one of the most complete martial arts, then all these stupid rules neutered the art and now wrestling and jiu jitsu filled in the niche..

[@Alexsnakedoc]

In my opinion leg grabs should be allowed but with the rule that you should not knee drop to go for it. Makes it also applicable to self defense/combat when there is hard surface, what do you think @chadi?

[@josephbreza-grappling9459]

I like the idea!

[@KevinGeaslin]

Wrestler advantage standing, but when they hit the ground, it's all Judoka.

[@marquisejoubert6129]

I gotta disagree

[@tacticalcombatfighter2787]

Catch Wrestler are good in ground. Even many judokas and BJJ practitioner have difficult time when play Ground game against catch wrestler.

[@MrCmon113]

You're gonna be completely lost on the ground unless you do sambo, bjj or something else that focuses on submissions anyways. If anything I see wrestlers fight more on the ground.

[@victorhuynh7264]

The major difference is that the control of the gi is really difficult for someone to shoot for the legs.