Challenger 2 is FINALLY Good. Challeger 2 LEP

[@RedEffectChannel]

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[@pyeitme508]

Cool

[@harryasoue3599]

So you returned to WT

[@CK-il8wy]

When you notice the video name is Challeger 2

[@Tokerskyzabijak]

Please consider making video on T72M4CZ I wonder how it is compared to T72b3

[@woodonfire7406]

Can you do a video on the Taiwanese M41D?

[@loftbi8931]

last time I was this early a rifled gun wasn't entirely obsolete

[@teatanks6481]

Rifled guns aren't obsolete at all, Britain still uses Rifled guns for their doctrine of accurate long range hits to eliminate targets and support other ground forces.

[@lengisen9637]

@@teatanks6481 they're very prone to damage

[@loftbi8931]

it said in the video that unless you use the insanely obsolete HESH then a rifled gun isn't any more accurate that a smoothbore

[@matthiuskoenig3378]

@@lengisen9637 and? obsolete means they 1)are no longer produced or used. 2) outdated, which itself means no longer valid or relevant. if a gun can do its job (kill enemies) at similar accuracy, range and rof then similar weapons, it is still valid.

[@phub9489]

@@teatanks6481 smoothbore is just as accurate as rifled. It’s all about FCS and gunner skill.

[@SyedIrtiza1]

Arjun watching all this from distance.

[@koinodiscoqueen]

Can you explain the arjun meme?

[@BFF-xn9dx]

😭😭😂😂

[@mns4]

@@koinodiscoqueen watch the old video of red effect you would knew kzbin.info/www/bejne/l5y3op2PrJ2dmLs

[@boejiden7093]

Mentioning the Arjun as a tank is an insult to the word tank

[@shashanksekuri7231]

@@boejiden7093 how dare u !??, arjun tank firepower Super!!!, can destroy whole City!!!!😤

[@exseque21]

HOW DARE YOU INSULT 🅱️ESH!!!

[@anubis3935]

ahahahahaahahaha

[@TheCat48488]

Badger be proud of you man

[@invadegreece9281]

*YEETS A 183 🅱️ESH ROUND AT ALL WHO CHALLENGE THE ALL HOLY 🅱️ESH*

[@mafiosomemer3730]

Meybe Rheinmetall could experiment HESH for the smoothbore

[@spamuraigranatabru1149]

@@mafiosomemer3730 I think they did that in the Challenger 2 CLIP, they made HESH-FS

[@proger1960]

That's one nice ass tracked tea making machine

[@mephistophelescountcaglios1489]

It has a toilet too

[@trevorhart545]

They are modern so have instant coffee!

[@matthewsmall8009]

Not one but 2 boiling vessels, thats how important the tea is!

[@Cravendale98]

Challenger 2 is and always has been a good tank, it has just fallen behind in recant years due to lack of upgrades but hopefully they give it what it deserves, a merger of the 2 ideas would be nice. Im pretty sure I heard somewhere before that there is going to be a seperate program to upgrade the mobility. Also to say that the lack of lower hull protection hasn't been addressed is incorrect because no Challenger 2 would deploy without add on armour such as the Dorchester block found on TES.

[@Cravendale98]

@Saint Jerry Yeah I agree mate, Challenger 2 is in need of some love and needs to be brought into the 21st century, but it deserves more respect.

[@valiantchord419]

Damn i love the look of that 130mm Prototype, but overall I honestly think the MoD should choose to go with the Reinmetal Upgrade for the new gun and if the design changes to fit some of Black Nights stuff even better

[@pepperedash4424]

I bet the 130 mm gun would have entered NATO service if the t-14 Armata begun mass production. There's no need to upsize until then I suppose.

[@kaneworsnop1007]

Under EU competition law (which currently we still abide) the two different proposals cannot be combined to take the best parts from each, which was suggested by soldiers in the early design stages. Unless things have changed in the last few years the decision to keep a rifled barrel or go smoothbore hasn't been made, but the Army was slanted towards rifled due to the desire to keep the HESH round; reinmettal is trying to push the smoothbore and so is including it in all of their concept designs until a gun is decided upon. The turret is being completely built from scratch for both designs and will not be made from a cast turret with composite armour welded on top, but a completely composite armour welded turret, providing better protection and slightly more space. The current Ammunition is actually 3 piece, not two piece as mentioned. The third piece is a vent tube which is loaded into a magazine which actually ignites the bag charge. The new gun once decided, will use one piece Ammunition. The sighting systems for both the gunner and commander are also being upgraded to use cameras rather than the current mirrors, lenses and whatever else is in them. This will save a lot of space inside the turret and combined with the new fire control systems improve accuracy, especially over long range due to higher magnification. This upgrade programme is purely for the turret, there was a sepperate uplift programme running simultaneously for the Hull (as far as I'm aware it hasn't been cut due to funding), this is a smaller scale uplift and will be using the existing Hull, at the time it hadn't started the design process and the requirements were still being decided. The track tensioning is going to be made automatic, so it will constantly be monitored and automatically adjusted, rather than the crew having to stop and do it manually. A reveraing camera is going to be added and improved night vision for the driver (I can't remember if this was going to be incorporated into a new periscope or a sepperate camera). You are correct in saying that the power pack is not being upgraded, however on the REME and engineers vehicles based off of the Challenger Hull the power pack will be standardised to the more powerful of the two they currently use to make maintenance easier and to reduce costs.

[@zopEnglandzip]

@@kaneworsnop1007 good, that cv12 is definitely the best sounding engine ever

[@nickbrough8335]

@@pepperedash4424 The Bae team merged with the Rhein-Mattel team to form a joint venture (mostly for the Ajax build) in late 2019. I think they have/are combining the best of both elements of the upgrade proposals.

[@pepperedash4424]

@@nickbrough8335 That includes the 130mm gun?

[@jojobeas947]

Finally British is getting an upgrade for the challenger

[@titytitmk2738]

The challenger 2 has been upgraded over the last 20 years, however not to the extent of other tanks. It had a 300+mm composite armour block added to the LFP. Its computer, digital and optic systems have constantly been upgraded. And its had a remote weapons station, anti-mine and anti-IED equipment and a thick (6 inch at least) anti-mine/IED armour plate added to it as well.

[@titytitmk2738]

@Vlad Tepes Drones can be easily countered and arent proving to be the game changers people thought. Even vehicles which were designed to have the option to be remotely controlled arent being remotely controlled as its so easy to jam the wireless signals. Extreme range artillery also isnt an issue if you are moving about, because shell or missile travel time is a thing and has to be taken into account. And AT missiles used HEAT predominantly, and modern composite armour has made HEAT attacks directly at the tank pretty much obsolete as they cant get enough penetration to beat the effective thickness of the composite. The only really effective AT missiles these days at top-down attacks, and they can be defeated through armour advancements, APS systems and changes to tank design. Tanks fill an extremely important direct support role. And whilst there arent as many Challengers as there are other tanks, the British tank doctrine since the 50's has always been to have a very heavily armoured 'sniper style' tank which can be used to support the far more numerous American and German tanks.

[@jojobeas947]

@callum monopoli I Know saw the news yesterday

[@Future183]

@@jojobeas947 i heard the challanger will be replaced with the leopard 2. And i heard the british government is workin with the france government and the german army and government on a new Leopard 3 so maybe the challanger gets replaced with the leopard 3 ik 2030.

[@thebigone6969]

It’s not a RedEffect video without a word from War Thunder

[@nomercynodragonforyou9688]

Yup

[@insert_username77]

Ah yes, the Challenger the tank that simply needs a bit of love from its own government.

[@danr6716]

We actually are getting rid of em soon an putting more funding into the navy and RAF

[@Yayaloy9]

@@danr6716 Aren't they advancing towards the Challenger 3 though?

[@beijing_duck6861]

The BAE always wins.

[@mafiosomemer3730]

Everyone gangsta with a rifled gun until a tank says "ARMATA"

[@Future183]

Nope because the challanger2 is wayyy to slow and way to heavy and expensive , the leo has the better weaponsystem, the better maingun, thats why the british government wants to replace the Challanger 2 with the Leopard 2. The challanger only placed onve and as 6th at the natotank competitions in 2018, the leo was always first, once in 2016 3 leos took the first 3 places, even the old leo 2a4 outperformed the abrams at the natotankcompetitions. And please do me a favorite and dont start talkin about the rekord of the challanger2 with the longest tankkill in history (4km), every tank can do this today u just have to find a tank thats 4 km away and u have to be lucky to find a place thats 4 km flat without any hills. And dont start talkin about the destroyed leopards in syrie cause these were old first generation leopards without any protectionsystem against incomin missles and incomin rounds and those leopards stayed on an wide open hill without any support and they were used as artillery with bad traned crews.

[@Future183]

@@mafiosomemer3730 there is also a new leopard with 130mm canon, autoloader, better weaponsystem, new turretdesign, new engin, new armor, new aps, hardkillsystem from israel and much much more, all in one designed to destroy the t 14 armata.

[@jasoncp3257]

@@Future183 actually the leopard 2 isn't being bought at all, Challenger 3 is on its way has been anaounced for a while

[@Future183]

@@jasoncp3257 still nothing against the newest versions of the leo :)) and the new challanger is designed from an german Organisation so nah bro dont be that proud of it, u guys always think u r the best in everything but u still needed help from germany also btw the new mgcs is replacing the leopard leclerc and the challanger.

[@communismbad6236]

*angry Matsimus noises*

[@petermallia558]

If we're gonna change the main gun then we may as well go all in and go for the Joint Rheinmetall/BAE Systems 130mm Smoothbore gun and autoloading turret system, but it must incorporate either Dorchester Chobham or an even more new and improved 3rd Gen Chobham, and Non Explosive, Reactive Armour (NERA),(Extremely Dense Rubber Blocks), and if course areas of Spaced Armour too for use against tandems shaped charged warheads and Tungsten or as in Russias' case as with our own penetrator rods stopping Depleted Uranium rids from passing straight through the tanks armoured shell as well as some add-on armour packages, luckily the Challenger 2 as is,(as well as CH-1), has never been lost in combat not a single Challenger 2 MBT to enemy fire, one took 24grs of continuous small arms fire and around 30 Russian Made RPG-7s, and an anti-tank rocket too, recovered all crew intact, Challenger was fixed and back out on job within around 6hrs, sights replaced, tracks replaced, ammunition stocked, off they went, and when asked by an interviewing Documentary Maker was asking the crew questions, tye said all they could remember is hearing tiny pings, the odd thud and one small boom, which WAS the small arms fire the RPGs and the small boom was actually the anti-tank rocket. In my opinion until we decide on a new tank altogether, I'd go for the Joint Rheinmetall BAE systems proposal with new Turret and 130mm main gun, everyone catch us up again like they did when Chieftain first appeared, that day everyone sat up and took notice, seeing the best and Armored, tge most powerful new 120mm gun,(instead of the British 105mm), up-gunned, outgunning any other tank in the World, because mist Western tanks,(Yes, even the US), used them British 105mm cannon, which was mass produced for a tank armament Anyway, a bit like Rheinmetall 120mm gun today or versions of it manufactured within some of the users respective Country,((countries)).

[@toucan221]

Nice additional info thanks 😀😀⭐⭐⭐⭐

[@marinusslabbertslav3822]

Just to let you know. Rheinmetall was selected as the upgrade partner for the Challenger on the 29 March 2021.

[@nothingspecial6925]

"it still uses HESH, c'mon" Whilst being useless against modern tanks, HESH has a range advantage over HEAT and APFSDS making it great for smacking light skinned targets at safer distances. HESH is very much loved for a reason. Just saying.

[@ikill-98]

It *MAYBE* better than HEAT but it's noting compare to AMP rounds also HEAT Use Fin stabilizer so it's more accurate PELE and HE cost half of the price than HESH so yeah Do you know HESH if its shooting at a target that more than 1km away need 2 chargers

[@nothingspecial6925]

@@ikill-98 AMP rounds are new. They werent a thing 20-30 years ago. My point was people scoff at HESH without taking consideration of how its used in the field. HEAT is not favourable over HESH for certain uses. Whilst HESh has big limitations its not as niche and was agreat choice for multiple purposes.

[@nothingspecial6925]

@Saint Jerry HESH has double the effective range than APFSDS fired from the same weapon. APFSDS is effective to around 3000m before its capability drops drastically. HESH is good for at absolute most 9000m but your looking at 7000m being a decent max range. That's not to say APFSDS can't reach the same ranges but it's ability to beat thick armour becomes hugely difficult as well increasing the chance it will break upon impact by quite alot. Today no, there us no benefit to sticking with rifled. 30 years ago when Cr2 passed for production it was just as good as the smoothbore at the time with the exception the l30 was not future proof in anyway.

[@andygass9096]

Exactly right

[@Leon-ix6xy]

@@ikill-98 where has this info come from, HESH does not need an extra bag charge for engaging plus 1k.

[@titytitmk2738]

The Challenger 2 was always good. It just didnt get the love and attention other tanks got. Also, correction needed in the video: The drivers section of the front hull is not a weakspot. The idea that it is, is a myth. Directly behind the drivers head when turned out is a 600mm composite armour block. The bit in front of the drivers head when turned out has equal protection to the rest of the UFP. Also, the LFP wasnt a weakness and most certainly is not one since the early 2000's. Having had the privilege of examining a Chaallanger 2 in person and being able to discuss the tank with a serving tank crew, the LFP has a 250MM block of composite behind it. It is not just bare steel like a Challenger 1. Also, since 2003, if I am remembering correctly, theatre specifications has dictated that the Challenger 2's have a 300+mm thick composite armour block added to the LFP to bring protection up to the level of the UFP. In short, from the front the Challenger 2 has excellent armour on its hull. Do not believe Gaijins interpretation of the Challenger 2's armour scheme, as it is wrong and British tankers have actually contacted Gaijin to tell them they are wrong (and even offered to advise on the armour scheme so that it can be changed to be realistic). The War Thunder Challenger 1 armour scheme is also completely wrong as well. The side armour wasnt lacking either, at least for the forward two thirds of the hull. That was improved later on with 250mm composite armour side skirts (and then even further with ERA blocks to protect the more expensive composite armour underneath).

[@goodsoup6085]

FR people getting there info from warthunder and steel beasts they never mention the extra dorchester on the lfp sides of the turret and the rpg plates on the side because they dont always add them and they are not in warthunder 🤣 just because is shares the same basic layout as the chally one hull dosnt mean its the same inside, also they make out like the mobility is horrible, it goes just as fast as the abrams off road, she might need an upgrade but she aint no slouch either.

[@lurkingturkey7882]

Rheinmetall: Maybe just buy some A7's instead?

[@mic-ho1wt]

@@arvedludwig3584 lets ignore the fact that cost is the issue shall we, and that 2a4s were more expensive at the time, and to get new tanks now even when upgrades can be applied is even more impractical

[@Schnittertm1]

@@mic-ho1wt Or, you know, they could just build entirely new tanks in country with locally produced parts, like Sweden, Switzerland, Greece and Spain did when they adopted their Leopard 2 variants. No one said, they'd have to buy 2A4's and upgrade them.

[@Wanys123]

Ah yes, British MoD, that literally turns every coin around thrice, will buy the single most expensive tank in the world right now.

[@gotanon8958]

If buying the most expensive tank that would be the french.

[@HJDore]

@@arvedludwig3584 because it would involve replacing all the recovery, bridge laying and armored engineering vehicles in the Fleet as well, which is more cost. One further point is that the only facility left that could manufacture and repair main battle tanks (RBSL Telford) belongs to, as the name suggests RBSL and even RBSL’s parent company rheinmetall doesn’t have rights to the 2a7 and its technology meaning that KMW would have to set up their own facilities in the UK which would reflect on the product and drive the price per unit up.

[@benefitbryan4227]

The reason the UK stays with the rifled is that they want to continue to use HESH rounds which is a major part of what they want from a design.

[@ahmadariqdarwish2042]

Lmao sounds like WOTB references

[@billhanna2148]

And don't forget the entire inventory would be obsolete if they changed guns and that would be expensive plus the upgrades

[@ahmadariqdarwish2042]

But HESH will be usless in modern time

[@madkillerz007]

@@ahmadariqdarwish2042 against other MBTs sure but lighter vehicles, walls, bunkers, buildings etc - HESH is an absolute monster.

[@ahmadariqdarwish2042]

@@madkillerz007 yah, lmao

[@Solidboat123]

1. Despite "only" having 1200hp the CR2 is still fast cross-country thanks to the hydrogas suspension and the gearing of the final drives. 2. The bag charges are protected - in armoured stowage bins with in-built water jackets to prevent charge detonation in the event of a hit. 3. CR2's actually deployed to places where they might get shot at are fitted with additional armour, which includes a big block of Dorchester armour over the lower front plate. So in reality this isn't a weak spot. 4. You don't know exactly how good the CR2's armour is, or how weak the "weakspots" actually are. The information is highly classified, and the handful of people who do actually know aren't sharing it on the internet. 5. HESH is a very effective general purpose HE round for use against light vehicles, buildings and infantry, and it can be lobbed quite a bit further than fin-stabilized ammunition. Tanks don't exist solely to fight other tanks...

[@ahmadibrahim4490]

Hi, Just wanted to tell you that Indian Army is placing order of 118 Arjun Mk1A this mid February. 😂

[@LOL-zu1zr]

F

[@officerbucket7986]

What about that order they put in for all those t-90s?

[@Tankliker]

Are you for real?

[@8000jk]

They are better off ordering more T-90's. Too much time and money has been wasted on the Arjun.

[@MY-zj8pb]

Who cares about India

[@vermillion.__-_.]

Challenger 2 had roof armour proof against 155mm arty shells. Apparently

[@rickmoreno6858]

It's the youngest of the 3/4th gen mbts, it didnt come online tell 1997. Idk why their is worried about its upgrades. Yes update lower front plate but this tank is pretty good already. I believe it is the safest tank in the world.

[@freedisappointment815]

The ammo rack design is the same as Chieftain which is completely a mess. With the 76.2mm steel for lower front plate, any modern projectile penetrate it will destroy whole tank surly. Dangerous as Russia tank but didn't get the same level protection of the hull can capable stop modern projectile and much slower. This is a worst combination for NATO tank. It far from to call it "safe".

[@mad_villain8580]

They are not worried. Like he said the government still has no interest in any presented concepts (and have none on their own) which most likely stick until the military start complaining about major lack in areas (If I have to guess optics for Command, active Protective systems and Engine). Wasn't that the case with the British Jeep that had no counter to IED threats nor could it protect from any firearm? This tank is good until someone pulls out a RB-26. Then you wish you have something stopping that baby flying towards you and that better not be your turret or hull.

[@jamesmandahl444]

Birmingham armor mechanic here. Can confirm it is made from consecutive layers of the same premium steel used to make huusk knives. These layers are then encased in a container made of a unique CCM (tungsten/depleted uranium cermit with muon nanotube fibres interspersed throughout). The new 140mm rifled barrel has an advanced apfsds round with an increased rod length of 200mm (full apfsds length now 350mm). This is the longest apfsds round ever used by the british commonwealth. The new hesh round uses octocubane and a special blender to increase brisance of the overall charge

[@CheeseSlayer294]

A good challenger variant that can be added to War Thunder? BrItAiN sUfFeRs No MoRe

[@lunaokittens9574]

Now, you KNOW gaijin will find SOME way to fk it up...

[@Solidboat123]

The Challengers already in game would be fine if modelled correctly...

[@scaled_titan188]

Idk why everyone thinks the Challenger is bad when it has gotten upgrades in game and the Type.90 exists.

[@scaled_titan188]

@@spencermadsen8752 very true, every time I see a challenger I know I'm gonna die. They're usually REALLY good players.

[@jungletroll3844]

@@scaled_titan188 yea its coz you suffer all the way up so you have to get gud

[@omiotod]

just so you know. and yes im an actual tanker. our abrams smooth bore gun, can fire more than 1,500 rounds before it needs to be replaced. its just a number some dude higher up threw up to have the gun replaced. the gun can go more than 1,500 rounds.

[@nebelwerfer199]

The Elton John LEP package removes main gun and paints tank pink.

[@Wanys123]

It also turns the tank in a Noise Marine from WH40k.

[@christianpethukov8155]

Then plays "Goodbye Yellow Brick Road."

[@qasimmir7117]

Christian Pethukov Surely it would play ‘I’m Still Standing.’

[@christianpethukov8155]

@@qasimmir7117 Yes, that would probably be a superior song choice!!

[@toucan221]

Paint it Pink good idea!!

[@mrbeast85]

Nothing wrong with HESH. What you have to remember is that tanks probably spend most of their time engaging targets other than enemy MBTs. HESH is a good all purpose round against lighter vehicles and infantry targets. While HEAT does have some effectiveness when used as an HE round its not as effective as HESH in this role. In fact the Americans found that during anti-insurgency operations in Iraq, they lacked an effective HE or anti personnel round, hence their dalliance with various canister rounds. So against contemporary MBTs, yes HESH has limited effectiveness but it has more uses than tank to tank combat. Also the British Army claims that although the L30 has no accuracy advantage over smoothbore guns, it is more precise.

[@ExcellentEngineering1966]

Street fighter had no side armour as until they are in theatre they don't apply it as it wears out the drive quicker.

[@bobyouruncle4708]

as it was just meant to be a small upgrade not a this upgrade with make it be in service for at least 20 more years, it was just a in house upgrade to help, he dosnt seem to understand that

[@dannyturkian9083]

I have a solution, if the UK increases its military budget so that they can put laser warning receivers and APS on the Rhinemetal version. And like you said there might be more upgrades to the tank so maybe they will upgrade the armor later.

[@jaroslav7790]

Hey Red! I have a questions for you. Will you make a interview with russian tanker? And what about tank arena series? Then you should start to compare IFVs too. And i have tips for new video. Czechoslovack T-72M2 modrna or MBT/KPZ-70. Thanks!

[@DBZ483]

Challenger 3 babyy

[@phub9489]

How’s iron fist APS not the best APS currently on the market? It counters both kinetic and chemical threats,has 360 degree coverage and is operational currently,the systems core has been proven in combat already in the form of trophy APS.

[@ikill-98]

The APS Is it use chargers or fragments ?

[@phub9489]

@@ikill-98 it uses charges the explode next to the projectile,that’s how it counters both kinetic and chemical munitions.

[@gavripay9601]

There's some very stiff competition between it the TROPHY system, and I actually herd that TRPOHY is the most likely APS system to be installed on challanger tanks... Althogh Red's assertion that iron fist "isn't the best" is an awkawrd statement, especially when you take into account the large amount of users that are actually installing\considering it.

[@gavripay9601]

heard* sorry typing from phone

[@phub9489]

@@gavripay9601 exactly,it’s being installed on most western MBTs or they are considering installing it shortly. Trophy excels more in chemical threats as it can’t defeat kinetic ones,it’s now being remedied since the two companies who developed iron fist and trophy combined the best aspects from the two systems and incorporated it under the new generation of the trophy system so now it counters both chemical and kinetic munitions.

[@henryhamilton4087]

so... BAE : Passive and active protection systems, upgraded optics Rheinmetall : Firepower and optics. For the Chally 2, I think she desperately needs the Smoothbore gun...but of course, that is a taller order than the BAE upgrade.

[@Gjldo]

whats up with the hesh hate? last time i've checked western Mbt's haven't faced a same generation tank since the iraq-iran war, and hesh seems to be the best ammunition for blowing up landcruisers and houses anyway (wich is what tanks are actually used for)

[@tankdriver65861]

HESH is a high trajectory round, to hit a moving target at anymore that 1200m is a hard task, it can be done, but an M830 HEAT round or german equivalent has a lower trajectory increasing the first round hit chance. Also on CR2 the loader has to piss about with the bag charge propellents, anything below 1000m, they put one charge in, any longer range its 2. theres none of that crap with single piece ammo.

[@Johnny641]

@@tankdriver65861 You dont have to put in 2 bags for any Hesh engagement. The other advantage while you may think loading times would be increased they are actually reduced as manipulating the ammo is easier. As for moving targets, you are correct it's not commonly used for that.

[@nobleman-swerve]

Because the advantages of hesh aren't worth the additional costs of a rifled barrel and reduced apfsds performance from the lower max chamber pressure, especially now that programmable smoothbore heat rounds are readily accessible. Having the option for airburst for infantry in the open, or a delayed fuse when engaging structures gives the tc a lot more to work with than a traditional hesh round. Sure squash head messes up concrete, but having a 120mm heat round detonate inside a structure is going to do a pretty damn good job of ruining it as well.

[@Johnny641]

Hesh has a wide variety of uses that still make it applicable on the battlefield especially in one of the main roles of British MBT's which is mechanized infantry support. The reason the rifled gun is looking to be replaced with a smooth bore is simple, it is because currently the UK has no Ammo commonality with other Nato forces and this is now becoming a problem. It is nothing to with barrel wear or the other reasons mentioned in the vid. This is also why the 130mm smoothbore will probably not be an option as it leaves the tank in the same situation unless other Nato forces upgrade to it of course.

[@shirazzmataz]

As far as I was aware, HESH is not full charge on L30, L27 is a full charge and not overcharge. There is also a separate program for the engine upgrade.

[@alonbrook9740]

@RedEffect At the start of the video you said that the iron fist aps isnt that great, and I wonder why. I mean it seems to have it all. A radar+electro optical sensors to destect launches, and test footage shows effectiveness against kinetic projectiles as well as just about any ATGM out there. Would love to get an answer. Keep up the great content.

[@Apex_FFAK]

Agreed, would love to get an answer aswell

[@gotanon8958]

The T-14 doesn't have the best KE projectile in the world take any claim they said that it clould penetrate this amount of armor with a fuckton of salt which was probably tested against rolled homogenous armor of unknown quality and for the T-14 to use its ATGM it has to stand still which is certain death in the battlefield even then the challenger has more than enough layers of protection ex:Its IR smoke and if the missile still hits the chally the tank has more than enough armor to stop the atgm since most modern tanks are frontally immune to direct hit Chemical energy munition.

[@gotanon8958]

Should the british pick the L55 to arm the chally they will modify them for the much newer DU ammunition that the brits would develope.

[@Wanys123]

I do believe Rheinmetal claims that the turret armour is similar or same on the new turret(in terms of effectiveness, not layout). And I was convinced that Rheinmetal also planned replace powerpack(engine+transmission) with EuroPowerPack - giving it same driving power as Leo2A6 and LeClerc. Also I could see two changes in the future: Combination of Black Night+Rheinmetal proposals, or some compromise between the two. And potentially using the "130mm turret" with120mm L/55A1, with possible quick rearming to the 130mm L/51 down the line.

[@HJDore]

Currently the mod are working with the British army and caterpillar to assess the Perkins CV12 powerpack and David brown transmission under the heavy armor automotive improvement program and if anyone is likely to receive a contract to upgrade challenger 2’s powerpack it’ll likely be caterpillar defense however The mod do not believe the cv12 (1200hp) is insufficient and when sent to a theatre of combat can be uprated to 1500hp. It’s likely we will see aspects of black night work there way onto a future operational entry standard rheinmetall challenger 2 as because Rheinmetall now own and operate BAE’s UK division they have access to their past projects and systems.

[@ukoctane3337]

Pre upgrade Chally 2 is basically just ultimate infantry and IFV bully machine right up until the point that a modern MBT shows up at which point the tank will likely become a very large kettle.

[@BurningSovereign]

Is this modern MBT somehow allergic to FIN ammunition?

[@fin4204]

preface, I'm not an expert by any means: The rifled gun makes a bit more sense when you consider the type of engagements the challenger would have been facing (mostly light vehicles from trucks, IFVs, APCs and 1950s-1960s era soviet tanks in the middle east) which is where HESH comes into play which, if I'm not mistaken, is more accurate when shot out of a rifled barrel.

[@Anderson21G]

Finally good... Chally 2 has always been good

[@BatteredWalrus]

Not really, if you look at the development within Alvis Vicker's (later BAE) internal documentation from the time (especially regarding the gun) the tank was already obsolete due to the technology in the design being from nearly a decade prior to it's acceptance into service, Germany and the US eclipsed it within 5 years (Leo 2A5 and M1A2). The only reason the CR2 was chosen over it's competitors was down to politics and saving around 7,000 jobs that were pretty much gone by the time the tank was in service.

[@danko8983]

not really, it has had many issues since it introduction, in first place, the gun is rifled, and no, rifled guns dont increase accuracy in modern combat, because the ammunition has fins to stabilize it, in fact, it produces more drag to the round because the fins spinning have more air resistance than a non rotating round, also, the maximum lenght of APFSDS has already been achieved a while ago because of the use of 2 piece ammunition, making it impossible to be as long as US and Germany APFSDS that are about 900mm in lenght, the LFP is a big weakspot, even tho it recieved some strap on composite for better performance against chemical rounds, against APFSDS even 100mm soviet APFSDS could go trough it with a minimal effort, unlike M1 and Leo 2, that are inmune even to some early 125mm soviet APFSDS, in the mobility department, mobility is a big downside, the M1A2 SEPv3 has already problems with it's weight of 68 metric tons with a engine that produces 1500 HP, not gonna even mention the Challenger 2 weighting 75 tons with a 1200 HP engine, the Chally is ''good enough'' to modern standards, but is outclassed by it's NATO counterparts, such as the M1 and Leo 2

[@hammer1349]

As British person, there is more than just combat effectiveness etc at stake here. Much like the harrier I love the challengers and I am proud of them for being British built. Having a British company do the upgrades keeps up that pride, although not that "made in Britain" means much these days but I digress. Most of the challenger problems come from doctrine and ideology. When it ces to ammunition I would take HESH over HEAT. HEAT has arguably more potential pen against tanks but I believe HESH has better performance against lighter vehicles/emplacements due to the way the explosive head works. Much of the problems won't be solved by upgrades. The drive train would need complete replacement which may mean redesigning the hull and so on. Then again tanks in this day and age aren't exactly our foremost military concern, I mean we just built 2 massive aircraft carriers and are working on the Tempest II 6th gen jet aircraft as well as the AJAX family of AFVs. With the political and thus potential conflict landscape constantly in flux as Russia seems less of a concern and the middle east kinda starting to simmer down rather than constantly boil from interested 3rd parties the low amount of tanks doesn't seem that much of a problem as well as their somewhat reduced performance. As an island nation, land warfare isn't exactly high on our priority list.

[@ducklingroma1130]

umm did anyone notice the specila lol did u mean to write that at the intro

[@Schnittertm1]

The UK still monkeying around with upgrade programs for the Challenger 2. CLIP, CLEP, now LEP. I wonder if they will actually upgrade the tank or if it is another progam that will cost the UK millions, but doesn't go anywhere.

[@TheDrTopo]

Excelent video! Can you make a video about the argentinian TAM? I think that you would find that interesting

[@100DesertRoses]

Rheinmetall proposal was dead in the water way back in 2006, as there was no solution to the ammunition stowage inside the turret and hull (Outside of an entirely new turret and redesign of the hull), This is because the Challenger uses two piece ammunition in separate bins for warhead and charge. The proposal could not load more than a dozen rounds into the entire tank as the majority of the stowage bins are not designed for single piece ammunition. nor are the ergonomics of the turret suitable for the much longer 120mm rounds.

[@HJDore]

This is a completely new design of turret that makes up Rheinmetall’s challenger life extension program (CLEP) proposal, it’s designed from the ground up with the l55 smoothbore and one piece ammunition storage in mind and as such is completely different from the modifications to a standard British army challenger 2 turret BAE and the MOD designed for the challenger lethality improvement program (CLIP) back in 2006.

[@hanzup4117]

"Finally good"!? Don't you mean even better!*

[@M0oseTacular]

I have heard people say that the challenger 2 is surprisingly fast over rough terrain. Also the UK seems to have speed lower on its list of priorities given British vehicles from previous generations. I wouldn't expect to see a new powerplant for the challenger 2 any time soon.

[@teatanks6481]

Challenger 2 was always good for the British Doctrine, long distance fire support and survivability) This is just making a good tank better.

[@meki___6881]

Wouldn't it be best to get the 130mm tank in that case

[@blumpfreyfranks8863]

Challenger 2, comparatively, isn't as good as other tanks, in fact its worse. Leopard 2A6, M1A2, K2 Black Panther, Type 10, all of those can do the Challenger 2's job better than it can. I'd be willing to bet some Russian model tanks can even outclass the Challenger in its current state, I mean, just look at the T-90M and T-80BVM.

[@zhufortheimpaler4041]

@Pommy Pie yeah but it uses 25 year old composite arrays, that are optimised against heat warheads and have reduced protection vs apfsds. challenger 2 may have thick armor in comparison, but that thick armor does not provide the same level of protection of modern leo2 and m1 composite arrays (about 400mm less vs apfsds)

[@teatanks6481]

@@blumpfreyfranks8863 Yes but those tanks have been constantly updated with larger funding to fight each other, built to their nations' respective doctrine. The Challenger hasn't been updated because there wasn't a need for it. The UK is a defensive nation in NATO focusing primarily on air and naval power, the Challenger 2 was built to take hits and hit back harder at a distance and as such has been far better engineered for that task.

[@teatanks6481]

@@zhufortheimpaler4041 Not entirely, the Dorchester ERA was updated in the early 2000s to be better suited against larger HEAT or Tandem HEAT warheads, later being put on Abrams packages, plus they were issued more Reactive armour in Afghanistan to counter T-HEAT.

[@thanakornkhumon7365]

Rheinmetall planned to install the projection device which allow this tank to disguise into tree. And eventually turns into the stealth tank lol. Nice Video.

[@peterwait641]

How do they keep the display screens clean and undamaged on the tank lol

[@mackster85]

We need a European MBT: - British Armor - German gun and engine - French Autoloader and Optics - Italian cupholders

[@agt155]

Barrel wear has never been an issue with the L30A1. Rifled v smoothbore boils down to HESH vs HEAT.

[@mrhotrod629]

Not sure where you got your info but we use 3 piece ammo on challenger , vent tube,bag charge, and round.

[@jancz357]

still the sexiest looking tank on the battlefield :D

[@MyScotty7]

Its getting a smooth bore 120mm gun now

[@corgykermit9181]

Congrats on 70.7K subscribers

[@matthewsmall8009]

Pretty sure hesh is not fired full charge as the casing of the round won't stand up to the forces involved. By design the casing needs to be malleable enough to deform on impact. Half bag charges for hesh.

[@memelord6201]

what do you think about the 130mm modification

[@socialus5689]

It would make more sense for them to use smoothbore, since you can use what is probably the most easily accessible 120mm ammunition.

[@HJDore]

This video is full of inaccuracies. 1) “Whichever design is chosen BAE wins either way” This is false because in 2019 rheinmetall bought a 51% stake in BAE’s British operations, enough to effectively buy the company (the UK section that is) out and then proceeded to launch a joint venture called rheinmetall BAE systems land (RBSL). In this rheinmetall acquired BAE’s British operations, everything from projects (like the black knight program) to their Telford factory. So in short BAE cannot win because rheinmetall are running BAE’s British operations now under a joint venture. 2) BAE systems land challenger life extension program bid: because of rheinmetall buying out BAE’s British operations discussed in my previous point there is no BAE systems life extension program bid, rheinmetall acquired the black night program and shut it down. It would have made no sense for Rheinmetall to run two separate projects for the challenger life extension program when their design is far better than the company’s that they just bought out. 3) The picture of a challenger main gun, breach and Mantlet in a static mount you showed when discussing the l30 rifled main gun is not the l30. This picture is of the l55 smoothbore from the 2006 challenger lethality improvement program when the mod worked with BAE to test the feasibility of fitting a smoothbore to a challenger. 4) the cut away image you’ve used when discussing the ammunition stowage is of a challenger 2e not a standard British army challenger, same basic principle yes but two separate vehicles. 5) the rheinmetall proposal lacks laser warning receivers of the BAE proposal The Rheinmetall proposal keeps the same engine This is most likely rheinmetall understanding their customer, the British mod. The British mod are known for being cheap when it comes to upgrading military equipment and a whole new welded turret for 227 main battle tanks is already an expensive upgrade, plus APS systems weren’t in the requirements for CLEP. When bidding for a military contract You can always add more to your proposal if your customer wants it but once you’ve scared off a government defense procurement office it’s a ballache trying to get them back. 6) the British are downsizing from 227 to 148 challenger main battle tanks This was just pure bullshit spread by the newspapers last year after some leaks/rumors started, it was a scary thought to middle aged and the elderly nationalists and would sell newspapers and so the press took these rumors and ran with them. It was confirmed by the chief of the army that it was a lie and the British tank fleet will stay at 227 vehicles. Red effect you need to stop reading the sun and Daily mail. 7) street fighter and later street fighter 2 are/were not upgrades it was at best a team building exercise between personnel from the royal tank regiment and the mod to find out what the troops wanted. What the troops were given failed to reflect what the vehicles would be like when deployed as the troops were given a stock challenger 2 and a small budget for minor modifications opposed to a full spec operational entry standard challenger 2 complete with signal jamming system and add on armor package which would have proved many of the troops modifications (steps bolted to the bazooka plates) Impractica . For street fighter to have worked properly with what the troops were given a much larger budget and far larger scope and the ability for the troops to look outside the box and beyond would have been needed.

[@markschoning5581]

Thank you, I am tired of correcting people about things like that. That Mr. Redeffect is trying to suggest that there is an option between the these two programs is ridiculous! There will be either the Challenger LEP Programm or no substantial modernization program at all. The other options on the table are/were mothballing all Challengers or buying Leopard II A7+/V MBTs.

[@HJDore]

@@markschoning5581 the mod have decided upgrading challenger 2 is the way to go. Buying leopard 2 or other export options is not a viable choice.

[@markschoning5581]

@@HJDore Yes, but as far as I know, no detailed decision/plan has been outlined so far! Only a principal decision, or do you have more detailed information about the timeline/scope of the CLEP-upgrade?

[@HJDore]

@@markschoning5581 i have heard from a reputable defense news source that the decision is due to be made in 2021. A mere comment was made recently on a challenger tank forum that I’ve seen stating that within a month a decision will be announced, however I wouldn’t hold this as it’s the first I’ve seen. Outside of this RBSL have been showing their lep turreted vehicle to the armor trials and development unit (ATDU) at bovington camp which I hear went well with many of the team down there impressed with what it had to offer. And from an economic perspective it makes sense to choose the RBSL proposal as not only is it a massive upgrade for challenger 2 and the British army RBSL are in possession of the only facility (RBSL Telford) in the uk that can undertake a project like outfitting 227 main battle tanks with new turrets that themselves are built in house. RBSL boast that should they be awarded it will see hundreds of new jobs created in the uk and a £20 million investment into RBSL Telford on top of already having their suppliers chosen and this will keep the UK in the heavy armor design game for any future involvement in joint multi national armored design projects which without the capability RBSL will provide will relegate the UK to being a mere customer.

[@andygass9096]

Sorry buy Boris Johnson IS a liar and the British Army IS going to go down to 148 Tanks (as well as troop strength dropping from 82K to 72K) as reviled as announced in the Defence Review.

[@mitchfromtheinternet297]

The CV12 engine can be upgraded to 1500bhp with common rail diesel injection just FYI, and I think that’s likely, as it will be cost effective, and still within the limits of the transmission.

[@qasimmir7117]

Interesting to know. I hope they keep that engine, it sounds fantastic.

[@mitchfromtheinternet297]

@@qasimmir7117 I hope they keep it because it’s cheaper than replacing the whole power pack and running gear stubs to accept a different engine, this talk of changing to the Leopard’s 1500bhp Euro power pack engine is ridiculous, it may be slightly more compact, but it’s equally as old and will cost a fortune.

[@The-Hound]

I was going to go on a large conversation on all the things that make this tank proud to be used under the British Army which this guy pretty much said the tank is shit but ya know what, the soldiers that fight in her feel safe and proud and the fact shes never been destroyed in battle but once when she was getting repaired only proves that she is never obsolete that this guy makes out. Im proud of having a Challenger 2 as our MBT, even if some people take this piss.

[@The-Hound]

@@EmperorLionflame cheers, ill take a look. Glad im not alone in the same thought.

[@lucarmyfool4800]

You forgot one thing about the gun, the most imported and main thing WHY the army has chosen the rifled gun...The ammo has a projectile and a propellant bag, witch are safely stored in the tank and while other systems (non-rifled) will have a cook off when hit, the challenger is protected against a cook off. It's all about surviving on the battlefield, and after 400 rounds you just put a new barrel in it...just like the tracks. Also the fact that they have 1000's of rounds in stock around the country makes part of a decision to keep a certain article on the shelf. + it is the safest for handling on the battlefield for the loader i think.

[@qasimmir7117]

Yes but the penetrative and destructive power of CHARM3 APFSDS round is lacking.

[@deathdragon2283]

The challenger has no more protection against cook offs when compared to the most basic measures taken by NATO tanks. The only features it possesses is lack of ammo in the turret crew compartment (even russian T-72s do this) and basic ammo rack protection. A penetrating hit to the hull has a very good chance of setting off the ammunition. This is especially true because of how spread out the ammunition is in the challengers hull. It would be hard not to hit ammunition upon hitting the hull. The armored racks prevent small fragments from setting off the ammo, but due to the entire hull being a giant ammo rack, the penetrator or HEAT jet will almost certainly bunch through an ammo rack and ignite the ammo. Compare this to the abrams, which stores all of its ammunition in a compartment separated from the crew, with an automatic blast door and blow out panels. If the abrams ammunition catches fire, the crew is perfectly fine. No ammunition is stored in the crew compartment. The leopard 2 stores a portion of its ammo in a armored bustle much like the abrams, but stores most in the hull. The leopards hull ammo storage is all placed in one spot to minimize the cross section, and reduce the likelihood of it being hit.

[@BurningSovereign]

To say the challenger 2 is only finally good now is somewhat disingenuous on your part. The chally 2 has been good for a long time but It's fleet is aging, tired and has largly been neglected from the funding it has required even having it pulled in the past. Its very apparent that these upgrades are necessary and the LEP has been in the pipeline for years.

[@pepperedash4424]

I'm guessing "finally good" roles off the tongue better than "finally up to date", and might attract more viewers. Not to mention it takes up less title space since its only two words.

[@BurningSovereign]

@@pepperedash4424 What about finally good again?

[@pepperedash4424]

@@BurningSovereign The title, it's easy to fit because it's just two words and rolls off the tongue quite well. I agree with you that it's not the most suitable words to use in the title.

[@solreaver83]

Funny how everyone is so quick to dismiss hesh but you speak to any British tanker and I bet money they will praise it. They love that round and they use it.

[@tankie2ndrtr]

For once I am incredibly happy about the level of misinformation in an Armchair General's KZbin video. It protects the operational capability of the British Army. Everyone should watch and believe this video.

[@HJDore]

I know right. This video is just full of bs.

[@WeWillAlwaysHaveVALIS]

Then correct us oh wise sage

[@tankie2ndrtr]

@@WeWillAlwaysHaveVALIS That's the point. Disinformation at this scale is useful.

[@WeWillAlwaysHaveVALIS]

@@tankie2ndrtr No the point is that you have claimed that the information contained in the video is faulty/disinformation but have provided nothing to refute it and as such the casual observer is not going to have any reason to believe your position over the OP.

[@tankie2ndrtr]

@@WeWillAlwaysHaveVALIS I absolutely do not want to, nor anyone to provide information to refute it. OPSEC isn't a dirty word. Please do believe this video. X

[@homijbhabha8860]

I think next gen tanks will have a deployable drone, which the commander or a drone operator can fly and look through, I saw this at aero India 2021

[@armata2298]

Pls keep showing the Sources also tank arina serie ??

[@NesconProductions]

With BAE & Rheinmetall joining forces best British tankers could hope for would the best components from both companies mods. The active defense system from BAE and gun & turret from Rheinmetall. Everyone wins, except the adversary.

[@thomasw695]

Not gonna lie iv been waiting for this for months

[@alexanderswarbrick4105]

Same

[@thomasw695]

@@alexanderswarbrick4105 I hope the rhinmetal one is chosen with a few changes like the engine

[@mr.mellow6638]

4:00 but they are also chromed, increasing the life of the gun The tank museum has a vid on the challanger and Challanger 2 and i count that as my source

[@Notmyname1593]

Pretty sure that is the modern standard for any tank gun.

[@pepperedash4424]

How many rounds can a chromed, rifled gun fire until replacement?

[@Notmyname1593]

@@pepperedash4424 As he said, nearly 4 times less than smotth.

[@sigspearthumb9574]

Doesn’t the lower plate get up armoured for deployment though ? So it isn’t as thin

[@Melanth89]

Yes. Even tanks deployed to Kosovo when they were new were up-armoured in that region with REMORA-A ERA tiles. More modern upgrade packages introduced for Iraq put a composite block there.

[@sigspearthumb9574]

@@Melanth89 do you know roughly how much that increases the armour thickness ?

[@Melanth89]

@@sigspearthumb9574 No idea. The details of Dorchester are still classified. The LOS thickness of the added composite is comparable to the thickness of the turret side modules, but as to the actual values is anyone's guess.

[@BIOSHOCKFOXX]

UK: Propose us some life expanding features so that we can keep Challenger 2's. BAE: Here's our few barely improving things. Rh+BAE: Here is our proposal, but just as well barely improving, except in different parts. Rh: As well as here is our new turret with new spaced armor protection similar to Leo, as well as 130mm gun which could be the world's first MBT utilizing 130mm and could dominate. UK: No, thanks...we don't want real life changing upgrades, we're fine with bare minimum upgrades. Me: But what else do you want? Make up your mind or stop asking for proposals, better make a plan, a list with things you want to improve and extend yourself and find someone who is willing to offer to do it...

[@Zosterias]

Honestly, they should just make the new challenger 2 a 3-man crew with an auto loader. With 1 lesser crew, they’ll have ample room for more ammunition.

[@MrEddieLomax]

The 130mm was autoloader

[@ethanedwards422]

That's a funny way to spell next generation tea facilities

[@Zosterias]

@@ethanedwards422 Tea? I want some London fish and chips cooking facilities onboard.

[@jpracing893]

Since this video we now know C3 will get trophy APS, has 3rd Gen Chobam armour called Farnham and EPSOM Armour, no doubt now being even tougher than Dorchester which is a feat in itself, and weak spots up armoured on the lower glacis.

[@PreetiSingh-yj2dj]

To all my tanks experts tank with Smoothbore gun - anti tank role Tank with refiled gun - ground support role These idiots didn't understand single concept that every military have different doctrine and role for their tank

[@vaibhavsingh346]

They are tank expert in WOT Not for real tank For them tank is not built for ground support role Side effect of playing too much WOT

[@PreetiSingh-yj2dj]

@Saint Jerry kid I have lots of other useful work to do in my life than playing war thunder

[@tankdriver65861]

I think RBSL's upgrade will be a massive boost to the capability of challenger 2, regardless of whether the main armament can hit a target at 4-5Km's away, trying to engage in thermals for a CHARM round is bad enough, let alone HESH. The new FCS and integration of the day/night sight into the GPS housing instead of the gun mantlet combined with 3rd generation thermals, like M1A2, would be a massive boost for the crew, and the crew's ability to engage long range targets. The main reason for this, is that the thermal sight is not stabilised vertically or horizontally, making it hard to engage moving vehicles at ranges of 2.5K+. While I have know doubt that our well trained expert crewmen could easily make the Challenger 2 work in any conflict or war, these upgrades reduce their chances of error, and allows them to better utilize the vehicle. Like Challenger 1 to challenger 2, everything was improved, I think we will see this with Challenger 2 to Challenger LEP, everything has/ will improve.

[@extraordinarytv5451]

SO EARLY REDEFFECT

[@stephencrompton4352]

7:18 I thought the Challenger didn't need blast door protection _because_ it uses two piece ammunition.

[@thewomble1509]

@@komradearti9935 Which war did this happen in? I mean areal war, not a game..............

[@paulmatthews2175]

@@komradearti9935 like when ?

[@gendumthegreat805]

The MOD is really slow with this shit so I won’t be surprised if they do nothing

[@kaneworsnop1007]

This project all depends on government funding, the 'guaranteed' funding has already been reduced which is why less tanks are now being upgraded. Even the origional funding didn't cover the mothballed tanks, it was stated that as funds were available they would also be upgraded. Either the upgrade has to happen, or they need to order more main armament barrels as they now have less barrels than tanks which are still usable.

[@Schnittertm1]

@@kaneworsnop1007 Yes, all depends on government funding, but the UK is proposing to upgrade the Challenger for what feels like decades for now. Meanwhile Germany and other countries using the Leopard 2 haven't had troubles upgrading their tanks to deal with newer threats and implement newer technology (e.g. 2A4 -> 2A5 -> 2A6 -> 2A6M -> 2A7 -> 2A7V). Same with the US and the M1 (M1 -> M1 HAP -> M1A1 -> M1A2 -> M1A2 Sep programs). Even the French upgraded their Leclercs significantly.

[@kaneworsnop1007]

@@Schnittertm1 I agree that it's well over due an upgrade, unfortunately there just hasn't been the funding for it. Iraq and Afghan decimate the Army as the government didn't pay the full cost of the war which they are meant to, so the Army had to use its budget meaning everything non war essential was forgotten about. After the war the government then said, oh now the wars over you don't need the money you were spending on it so we're taking it away, when in reality the decimated Army needed a massive cash injection to get itself back on track. Some easily doable upgrades which should have happened atleast a decade ago would have been upgrading the thermal and giving the commander thermal, in my mind this is something essential especially considering the thermal is worse than the Chally 1 thermal due to money shortages at the time of the last uplift.

[@XEyedN00b]

Ahhh it would be so nice to have CITV and L55 smoothbore on Chally 2 in War Thunder. Even if it would "only" fire DM53 (which is actually the best round currently in War Thunder) Also proper TES armor modelling would do this tank a huge favor in the game.

[@vandansonkar7819]

Gaijin will add as a premium undertier it and then nerf and uptier it and the cycle repeats

[@ii_dynasty]

@@vandansonkar7819 Damn your comment aged extremely poorly.

[@vandansonkar7819]

@@ii_dynasty how ? (I haven't played wt last 4 months)

[@ii_dynasty]

@@vandansonkar7819They added it as its own tank in the tech-tree.

[@danielschindler707]

Classic Britain everything’s always shit, always a compromise and always never as good as the competition but still costs a fortune

[@theoonyoutube]

not really i mean look at the harrier

[@matthewfindlay2242]

Do you work for the m.o.d? The challenger 2 is a proven combat effective weapons system,all armoured vehicles have a compromise somewhere between firepower, mobility and protection

[@jdlamb3829]

I am going to install war thunder now, it looks like a fun game

[@karenrompis6989]

But can it beat the Bob Semple?

[@evilestwheat8266]

The question is can anything beat the bob semple

[@pislarustefan5009]

Nothing ever will

[@dannyturkian9083]

I think that since BAE and Rhinemetal work together now they can just fit a smoothbore gun on the BAE version.

[@HJDore]

The l55 can (and has) be fitted to a standard (VDS) challenger 2 turret, however reworking the turret to fit a protected turret bustle ammunition storage limits the amount of rounds stored in the bustle to 6 rounds.

[@m1a1abrams3]

wut about meeee

[@magnagermania9311]

Ur gonna be replaced soon

[@evilestwheat8266]

Am sorry freebrums

[@teatanks6481]

Outdated tank, even when it was first introduced the Soviets had them beat in all fields.

[@evilestwheat8266]

@@teatanks6481 no fobt say that to him he is the freebrums respect his work

[@sergarlantyrell7847]

I wish they would cut their losses and start from the ground up with a new design, like Russia did with the T-14. Build it around an autoloading 130mm gun (or at least the intention to fit it should NATO agree that should be the new standard) and both hard and soft-kill APS. The crew in the hull, as in T-14 seems like a good idea, especially since NATO tanks would typically fight from hull down, so the crew would be almost completely safe then.

[@kieferkarpfen6897]

Russia does not have any t14s

[@jaymelyncardoza5371]

Why is this channel always streeses the weakness of tanks?,lets not forget all tanks has its achilles heals either M1 Abrams,T-14 Armata,Leopard 2,Challenger 2,Leclerc or even Chinese tanks. Is the Arjun the best tank in the World?😆😆😆😅😅😅.

[@drakenfire2189]

From what i read, the engine, while not getting an upgrade directly will get some love, with improved fuel injection and upgrades to transmission and cooling. How much change for engine performance will that be I dont know, probably not alot. However as long as the weight doesnt go up by much it should be enough....

[@tamar4067]

Are you disabled ‘finally good’ One of the best tanks over the last 50 years Best effective armour from any tank EVER Never been destroyed in combat Can still keep up with the rest of the MBTs from Russia, US, Germany and the rest of Europe Do some research mate

[@cattledog901]

Its been a known fact for a long time that the Challenger is the weakest and most outdated tank in NATOs arsenal. It lacks basic modern features that are considered standard today like a commanders thermal sight and a smoothbore gun. It uses 2 piece ammunition which worsens its survivability if it. It has the worst mobility of any NATO tank has still has displays and fire control systems from the 1990s. I'm not saying its a horrible tank and its turret is well protected but the nationalism in your comment is way over the top. The Challenger is simply behind the times compared to its peers and thats just a fact. Even the MoD admits that and is principle reason behind wanting to cut their tank forces instead of upgrade them.

[@tamar4067]

@@cattledog901 hahahahahahhah the challenger is known for the thickest effective armour in the world, we stopped using 2 piece ammunition in the 80's, it has thermal sights and the gun can be amed manual by the gunner is systems brake so the gun can still function ( unlike the Abrams and Leopard) yes it still uses a smooth bore (which isnt bad) but is being upgraded, it doesnt have the worst mobility of an mbt in nato since is has a top speed of around 40mph (similar to the abrams) whilst only having a 1500 bhp turbo diesel engine, displays and fire systems have been ugraded twice and are now only a few years behind, the Challenger is completely capable of fighting alongside its peers (lets not forget that one in 2001 survived being hit by 70+ RPGS). But the MoD cutting tank forces is a fucking mistake, which is still unsure (looks as if we are keeping them now we are getting the life extension for the Challenger)

[@cattledog901]

@@tamar4067 Incorrect. Challenger 2 uses 2 piece ammo still. You guys still issue separate charges and warheads and its seen as a major weakness. This is a reason why challenger can't have proper blowout ammo panels like Abrams. It also limits the size of APFSDS penetrators you can use. This is a known weakness of the challenger by even the British Army. Get your facts correct. 2nd the COMMANDER has no thermal sight. No one said anything about the gunner.. since the commander has no thermal it has no hunter killer capability which is a standard capability on modern tanks. 3rd top speed doesn't matter, acceleration does and the challenger is severely underpowered and overweight. The engine has horrible reliability as well. It was called the best tank in the world if it broke down in a good position by British troops themselves. And BTW the Abrams has a speed limiter installed, its top speed much faster. No one said it didn't have good armor but you seriously need to go back to school and get some basic shit correct instead of blindly thinking because it's British it is the best.

[@tamar4067]

@@cattledog901 A) they dont teach this in school B) it des have blow out panels on the top of the turret behind the commander hatch C) sorry i miss read that you said commanders sight, thought you said gunner D) the Challenger 2 is 62 tons compared to the fat weight of M1A2 ( i think around 71 tons) E) the unreliable engine has been fixed by adding better exhaust manifold and intakes (since the engine was breaking because it was re-breathing its exhaust) F) as of 2006 the challenger has the newer German gun, which uses 120mm AFSDS 1 piece ammunition (2 piece is no where near bad compared to an autoloader) G) the Challenger can ick out multiple targets at one and the firing system can fire at say 3 targets one after the other if they are picked up by the targeting system with out the gunner having to aim (making it a tank with hunter killer capabilities

[@HJDore]

@@cattledog901 firstly, technically challenger 2 (and even challenger and chieftain before it (chieftain was said to be the earliest MBT to utilize the hunter-killer tactic) does posses the hunter-killer ability this is because the commander does have his own 360 degree panoramic sight. What challenger 2 lacks is 24hr hunter-killer because the commander only has access to a thermal sight and not an integrated thermal viewer in the 360 degree panoramic sight. Secondly the “it’s a good tank if it breaks down in a good position” was said about challengers predecessor chieftain which used the l60 multi fuel powerpack that was notoriously bad for failures the cv12 that challenger 2 uses is far better than the l60 after the mod learnt their mistakes. And lastly as for your comment on the lack of blowout panels being a weakness this is also, to a degree, incorrect. Challenger 2’s ammunition is stored in the rear of the turret whilst the charges are stored in separate wet bins that remove the chance of them catching light and exploding if a penetrative hit is sustained.

[@Lykas_mitts]

Here's a thought, if they really needed the Hesh... would it not be ok to design a hesh round that spun itself using fins?

[@matthiuskoenig3378]

they could also go back to oval bore or polygonal bore guns, all the benefits of smooth bore, all the benefits of rifled. its a slightly oval barrel that twists, inflicting spin on the rounds like regular fileing. but due to being smooth, the barrel has less ware and is cheaper to make. Russian arms maker Molo has started making modern hunting rifles with this style of bore, to get past russian gun control laws. while H&K has adopted the later. the negative compaired to fin-spun HESH would be no compatability for APFSDS/etc with other countries smooth bore. the advantage would be cheaper HESH munitions (compaired to fin-spun)

[@denysmkhize2379]

Still my fav tank of the modern-day era! Love ya, Challenger 2!

[@Scasne]

Ok I intially interpretted wrong, when he was saying that street fighter wasnt enough for urban tank rather than it was an urban tank was a stupid idea, but I believe that is the correct way to go, active safety measures and improved communication between infantry and crew, because, if going against NATO who normally have air superiority, and decent artillery you either need insane numbers or another measure to balance out otherwise its plain suicide, therefore urban fighting, if infantry support is lacking it could be possible to fire an anti tank missile either onto the engine panel or blow out panels on the abrams or leopard, challenger 2 only has one of those, pressumably due to its design to withstand artillery barrage rather than outrun it. Urban fighting stops the long range shots so mixed use shows advantage of current rifled gun, missiles could aid non-los firing and again infantry support although this could possibly be served better by another vehicle nearer supplies. I would say if replacing the turret to allow a rheimetal gun it would be a false economy not to get ahead of the adoption game rather than spending money to "play catch up".

[@kingsofserbiangameplay1623]

Challender 2 LEP. Luckly Ending Pain

[@chrisroberts313]

The delay in upgrading from challenger2 might be a wise move to have more of a budget to put towards it plus a longer think about if a main battle tank is needed or at least a crewed one?

[@agt155]

Same video gamer myths. CR2 armour has been upgraded more than any other MBT, and it's armour that matters today not 'top speed' or 'muzzle velocity.' Also TOGS2 has been replaced with 3rd gen TI, and a BFMs was introduced about 10 years ago.

[@rafaelnishizumi6330]

The logical course of action, in my opinion, is combine the best of the Black Knight and RH Challenger. Both share the same problem in Hull armor and it would probably increase weight even more but the another problem would appear, that would be price.

[@FrostySire]

The army got a extra £4b increase for the next 4 years so hopefully the upgrades will happen.

[@Pincer88]

@ RedEffect Just out of curiosity: suppose both upgrades were combined and better protection to the front lower plate was improved (a lot), would that make Challenger II one of the best tanks in the world in your view? Or would it become too expensive (and anyone buying could only afford a few of them as a result)? If the latter would be the case: would a completely new design be more economical? (Which may be the case for more upgrades to existing tanks). Really love to hear your take on that, as you make excellent videos that make a lot of sense in my humbold opinion. Thanks in advance.

[@sigspearthumb9574]

Don’t know if anyone has said this. But street fighter was made by the crews who were given a very small budget to go put what they wanted on a tank. They choose to primarily focus on urban combat idk why.

[@thewomble1509]

Does the name STREETFIGHTER not give you a clue?

[@sigspearthumb9574]

@@thewomble1509 it’s only called street fighter because the tank crews involved in the program decided to focus on urban combat in a tank

[@nemisous83]

Honestly it's more likely MOD would just phase out challenger 2 for AJAX

[@olit-j9432]

yeah I can't find much at all on it and its an interesting vehicle