Change in Karate: Good, Bad and Ugly

[@620ronin]

I have been training in traditional martial arts for over forty five years. It is refreshing to listen to an articulate voice of reason. Keep up the great work you share .

[@Docinaplane]

I've been in the martial arts for a very long time. I continually try to evolve what I do. I am amazed by how rigid some systems can be. For example I've seen systems that will not learn leg kicks and others where the hook punch is not allowed.

[@Korroth]

We ditched uniforms years ago and added shoes. No rank system anymore. Also thanks to the pandemic we’ve been training outdoors, distanced, so in winter weather we’re wearing outdoor cold gear.

[@vonclap]

Uechi ryu and Goju ryu are chalk and cheese when compared with their southern Chinese progenitors, massive changes were made by teachers who only had a few years experience...many westerners have many decades of experience, and possibly wider experience than most earlier karateka...not change for the sake of change, but considered improvement, through practise

[@maialinellospazio]

I 100% agree with you, Iain, of course. However, after 40 years of Wado practice, I would like to give my two cents: in order to change something, it is imperative to know what you are changing inside out. I witnessed some people making changes just because they did not understand what they were doing. I personally don't consider myself good enough to make or propose changes, because I am not particularly talented or skilled, and I am still learning. As you pointed out in another video, on the "Su Ha Ri" process, I am still between the Su and the Ha. However, I have no issues whatsoever in following what smart, talented and dedicated people like you propose to improve our art. BTW, I witnessed your skills first hand, having attended your seminars :)

[@loki200]

You are speaking out of my mind, thats are some of the questions going on in my head for a long time now. Thanks for your work!

[@warrickdawes7900]

Thanks Iain, a wonderful discussion on change. I have had discussions with my teacher about certain points in kata for example, where I do something different from the official club version due to the way I interpret the bunkai. He is both wise enough and open to alternatives that he can discuss it with me, and accept it so that he doesn't "correct me" when I do it in class. We only grow when we are open to change.

[@andrewkwait8658]

spot on! I am a shotokan karateka for 37 yrs. in massachusetts- you nailed it totally- many thx

[@aidanmurray8283]

Your conclusion and comparison to parenting; the collection of information being passed on so one doesn’t have to reinvent everything from the begging, I think you’ve done that superbly! You have been my giant (standing on the shoulders of giants) during this past year of lockdown. Thanks for all your insight and provocative opinions. (Also, I attended the live class yesterday - what a blast that was. Thanks for the high energy)

[@ascaniosobrero]

As usual this is precious as thought-provoking. The critical point I see here is how to really recognize a progress, an improvement, and not just a change for the sake of it. Often changes are proposed only to appear as an innovator, a new master, but without any real value. Some are scared of this, and prefer not to change anything.

[@brianwilliams8033]

I have been in the martial arts for over 35 years. Toyama Sensei said Shudokan died with him, and future generations should make it their own. He said there are no styles just different interpretations of Okinawan Karate. Most of us are continually evolving making it better for future generations. Keep up the good work, your words make perfect sense!

[@knutriedel8601]

Just a little addition: Following German translator, historian and Karate-Ka Henning Wittwer, the statement "All Karate is one" suddenly appeared in the english translation of Funakoshi's autobiographie, but is rather an incorrect translation from the original chapter title meaning nothing more than "The currents and branches of Karate". Funakoshi himself did not give that statements of "all is one" in any other of his writings. Online Wittwer's text is only available in German, but everybody can simply dump it into Google Translator (especially chapter 6). An English version is available in Wittwer's book "Karate History. Collected Essays". www.gibukai.de/2017/02/15/%C3%BCbersetzungsprobleme-in-funakoshis-biografie/

[@rachelhayden2586]

I really like the philosophical approach in these videos. By that I mean careful presentation of concepts and arguments, clear language, and reasoning and argumentation which is spelled out logically. It allows for increased understanding, as well as transparency if there are flaws in the arguments. In this way the whole field can move forward. It is so refreshing to see this!

[@Mossy-G]

Hi Iain. What you are saying is a ‘breath of fresh air’. I walked away from karate 28 years ago after 20 years study. I was awarded my 1st and 2nd degree black belt from Enoeda Sensei (whilst with the KUGB) and 3rd dan via Kase Sensei. Somewhat disillusioned with Karate, I joined a mixed combat club (prior to MMA)

[@Emcron]

as an Ashihara practitioner, I can understand why our kancho was derided for replacing all of the old katas with new ones. as a full-contact school, it only makes sense that our kata are done from a full-contact kumite mindset.

[@jean4j_]

Yes totally. The objectives of original kata are the self defense applications, not competitive fighting. If the final goal is competitive fighting, the kata should train the practicioners to it. Otherwise you have stuff like Shotokan or Kyokushin practitioners who never get to use in Kumite their techniques learned in Kata (given they manage to get interesting meaning out of kata practice in the first place lol 😂)

[@bunkaiman1440]

This video is a breath of fresh air!

[@carlharrison4062]

Great video as always, Insightful and logical. Keep up the great videos!

[@Martysama11]

Wise words Mr. Abernethiy, wise words.

[@karatekid3233]

What a timing dude, just had a discussion with some people at my Dojo yesterday about training more functional instead of doing Standard shotokan kihon and kinda superficial bunkai/drills. And now you come along and I feek I might not have been as wrong as I thougt I was. Also, have you read the dao te ching?

[@loki200]

Hey, we are talking about the same topics, maybe thats something comming up through every martial arts at the moment. With the great spreading of information in the internet we see more and more of things others do, understand what they do and realize what we can do better for our own martial art. I think thats a great movement thats going on, and I believe that all old masters would be jallous of us seeing all martial arts from all the world.

[@sway71]

You're definitely on the right track. Something you see a lot in history is kind of an "oversteering" effect due to information not being as readily accessible. Someone notices that things aren't as practical and starts testing themselves and their techniques to refine the art. Then someone else notices that training too hard in this way can be brutal (especially if you're getting preventable injuries during training) and modifies the methods of training. Then people think, "hmm... I don't really like getting hit. Maybe we can just train this solo..." And of course, masters and instructors with years of experience don't have a problem making drills and solo training effective, because they've applied it with real opponents for decades. Nowadays, that cycle has become much shorter.

[@pezoya]

A classic discussion in a normal Shotokan dojo. Im from Spain and have the same 'problem'. My solution was search another style. Goju-ryu from Okinawa was my answer...im very happy now with a karate oriented to an honest bunkai katas, tegumi, drills... I win with that. I take things from Shotokan and goju-ryu. Sorry for my bad english.

[@karatekid3233]

@@pezoya I really think it depends in the teacher tho, not in the style necessarily

[@pezoya]

@@karatekid3233 Sure, but usually are oriented to competition.

[@ThePNWRiderWA]

Very true. Take any style or method and decompose it and look at what they changed and try to understand why. It helps a great deal in understanding. Many years ago when I trained of the teacher saw you were a hard worker with some talent would have you tweak things just a bit. Most of the time it was those personal understanding that they were sharing. I wanted to learn the kata as quickly as possible to improve. After many decades I understood every thing is really in one kata. Master 1 and you understand them all. Now that I am old o only practice 1 kata. But I know and understand it.

[@grilledcuttlefish9837]

I totally agree. Would you mind sharing which kata you’ve chosen to keep training?

[@ThePNWRiderWA]

@@grilledcuttlefish9837 the Goju Naihanchi. It’s a close quarters kata and is deep when you understand the applications. Since I am old it suits me since I I cats kick as higher than waist effectively. There is no magic in martial arts. Remember when you first start training and watch a good advanced practitioner do a kata and it seemed as if you could never do that? Then years later you could ..

[@grilledcuttlefish9837]

@@ThePNWRiderWA that’s awesome. I’m still in my early twenties and I also like Naihanchi because it is a no-nonsense kata and easy to practice with limited space.

[@ThePNWRiderWA]

@@grilledcuttlefish9837 best thing I can tell you is train often and hard. It’s a skill that’s will you your whole life and things you learn may well save your life or from injury in surprising ways. In my 50s I slipped on ice. Because I had learned how to fall properly I was bruised but nothing broken. I suspect I would have had a concussion and a fractured hip otherwise.

[@eamonob84]

I started martial arts 24 years ago with karate. I trained full contact karate/kickboxing and now I have been training BJJ for about 12 years. One thing that kind of opened up my understanding was the idea in BJJ of our “game”. Not every technique works well for everyone and some techniques are better for us than others. So we develop our own ways of doing them more efficiently for ourselves and work out our own unique set ups, etc. Why should karate be any different?

[@jkrnewengland]

This is excellent - thank you for sharing!

[@TheMartialWay]

Awesome video Sensei! Really builds on our discussion... sharing for sure!

[@emotionalsanta]

Really good stuff, thanks. This is really encouraging. I'm not a karateka, but I do kung fu. The same questions about change and evolution exist there too.

[@CorkDave1]

An excellent reflection and a great motivator

[@goodbuy7556]

You are the MAN!

[@rsouthwick]

I think the “Do Ethos”, as you have called it, happened in Japan before Judo...

[@knutriedel8601]

Thanks for sharing this with the broad public. Simply great.

[@juhaandersson6975]

An excellent video once again! I really like your analogies.

[@Shorikid]

I'm glad you are out there speaking for the heretics in the karate world. I've struggled for a long time with the 'frozen in amber' styles I grew up with and faught the desire to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Keep making sense Iain and using your...posh accent!

[@practicalkatabunkai]

Only accent I have ;-)

[@Shorikid]

@@practicalkatabunkai I remember the translate from Cumbrian(?) challenge several years back.

[@1966Birger]

@@practicalkatabunkai And how did that get posh? Beats me :-)

[@joeblogs-vx4ep]

Ian is also a karate Ka philosopher. That is the true way of karate not just physical but also mental ...

[@gdiaz8827]

This guy is a karate guiness great videos keep them coming

[@YoukaiSlayer12]

Great video & point. Also great shout out to Jesse Enkamp.

[@billc.4584]

Great talk. Major props to you, sir. Thank you.

[@billc.4584]

Iain, my admiration and respect for your approach to karate, not to mention your obvious skill, grows with each viewing of your presentations but this particular clip was amazing as it crystallized the most common sense approach to karate I have heard in many years. Thanks again.

[@kyussbrooker1774]

"7:00" I think we need to make a decision between understanding why they did something. Instead of removing or replacing due to ignorance. It is changing because of ignorance that i personally have a problem. Not the change that deepens and cleans the pool of knowledge. All martial arts are one art, I think it is is better to think it is perfect and work out how it is. Then the opposite believing that it is not. As the latter looses the chance to to see the art. Now my point is confusing but it really comes down to this. (What is your game plan? ) How do you what to fight? Anko Itosu, and his teacher Matsumura Sōkon. Would hold to the plan of ending a fight as soon as possible. Enter, close finish. If we hold to this plan we can stay on track to be good at karate, if we change our plan so do we change our art.

[@bassoskat]

Wow, very scholarly analysis. Very informative.

[@markwalker4142]

Absolutely spot on . The biggest stifling attitude comes from revenue protection and status protection by associations . Preserving a structure and refusing to innovate and Change . I’ve seen so much crap sold as ‘ The Way’ and a lot by Japanese and british Sensei protecting their revenue source . Only ones I’ve seen willing to adapt and search new ideas are accused of being Ronin and not Samurai to the liege lord at HQ !! A travesty of the truth because the level of infighting in Japanese Shotokan associations has been clear . I’ve trained with them all .!! They all go their way and explore their interpretation or experiment . Yahara , Asai , Kase etc....

[@lesbubka]

Great clip as always, thanks Iain.

[@sramdeojohn4428]

Keep up the good work... 👏🙌👏

[@blockmasterscott]

As an instructor I would like to point out a bad change. People just don’t like the physical contact and physical conditioning like when I started training in the 80s. I get so many cases where people don’t want any input on how to improve their techniques and they don’t feel comfortable pressure testing what they learn. It was not like that in the 80s.

[@darrensamuels1511]

Well said Ian Sensei

[@MarshOakDojoTimPruitt]

thanks Iain

[@raynerben3843]

Greetings & Good Blessings, Standardization had made Karate stagnant for the sake of "identity" instead of "Efficiency"/ Practicality. In my current situation, I'm forced to "conform" / "be within the frame" / "becareful with authority" so that I can "keep my job/ allowed to continue teaching" Karate. Otherwise prepare for the Consequences. Deep Down, I do feel that sticking to traditional methods alone will be a Disadvantage especially when it comes to modern fighters that are focusing more towards effecient strategy, Tactics, Techniques to Achieve their goals. MMA is a good example of this approach. In conclusion, I will always believe in. "Shu Ha Ri". I might be seen stubborn but my intuition tells me otherwise.

[@stefanocentritto86]

Wonderful as always!

[@captainbeaver_man903]

I was invited to a black belt workout by some friends that run a TSD school. They do 3 step sparring and when I was working with them I always countered on the first punch. One of their students told me I was doing it wrong and I had to let him punch 3 times. I told him if someone punches at me I am definitely not gonna let them do it a second or third time if I can help it. You could see a lightbulb go off in his head.

[@blockmasterscott]

I use the three step three punch drill without a counter to hone the muscle memory. I like having my students practice moving back as well as forward. The three step is useful if used correctly

[@captainbeaver_man903]

@@blockmasterscott moving back that many times doesnt make sense to me. At that point you are being chased and the person chasing you can go faster forward than you can backward. One step back, sure, but after that you should be cutting angles and moving laterally so you dont get run down.

[@blockmasterscott]

@@captainbeaver_man903 For advanced students yeah, but brand new people trip over their own feet, they have to take baby steps. They don't know how to move in different directions, they don't know how to block, how to counter and so on. It's a great drill for a brand new person that doesn't know anything. 3 step is not a fighting drill, it's a muscle memory drill involving 2 people interaction.

[@spirgtudsrubec7776]

Change for good reason, not necessarily always for practical reasons can be good. It also needs to be changed by somebody who has practiced diligently for long enough to have transcended a basic understanding of their art. Change for change sake doesn't make sense. Change is not good, if it is done just because change should happen. Having said all that, when a person is at a right level in their training, they should not fear the illusion that they are not qualified to make those changes. If you learn your art well and have reached that level, then you are qualified enough to make a change if you feel it necessary.

[@enderbykarate]

this is the main reason that ive gone down the road that i have with teaching. Sport Karate has its merits and traditionalism also has merit, so its basically boiling down to how it is taught. Karate masters that originated their schools didnt even believe in styles all they focused on was effectiveness and training. western mindset has "bastardized" the entire mysticism around the arts and made systems separate and "different" . evolution is essential for the survival of all karate. Just as culture and society, honouring the past is important, but more important is to evolve or die.

[@3Pillers]

Karate, as it is transmitted, changes every few years. This is a common phenomenon. It happens because a teacher must continue to learn and adds his personality to the teachings. There is an old Okinawan martial arts saying that states that Karate is much like a pond. In order for the pond to live, it must have infusions. It must have streams that feed the pond and replenish it. If this is not done then the pond becomes stagnant and dies. If the martial arts teacher does not receive infusion of new ideas and/or methods, then he, too, dies. He stagnates and, through boredom, dies of unnatural causes. Chosin Chibana

[@okironin8180]

Sounds like Shu Ha Ri

[@jean4j_]

Very good video. I know what I'm gonna ask sounds to be against of what you said about styles (how karatekas care too much about them) lol Since you're that much interested in practical bunkai, why do you practice a style (Wado-Ryu) that has so little focus on practical bunkai compared to any of the Okinawan styles ? Thanks in advance, I'd really appreciate to get an answer about this, that'd be helpful

[@practicalkatabunkai]

I started in Wado as a child because the best instructor in my area came from that lineage. He, and his Japanese instructor, were not afraid to deviate from what came before if they felt it better though. My original instructor therefore referred to what he taught as “Wado based”. Due to training with other instructors and my own innovations, I don’t think the “Wado” label accurately reflects my karate these days. I therefore refer to it simply as “karate”. The kata pre-date Wado so we don’t really have “Wado Kata”, but “Kata as done in Wado”. I take a more traditional approach to the kata than many modern Wadoka … indeed, more than many karateka of all styles.

[@jean4j_]

@@practicalkatabunkai Thanks for your reply! It means a lot. I'm actually struggling about changing styles. I'm shodan in Wado-Ryu as well. I explored new martial arts like Wing Chun, Jeet Kune Do, Kyokushin Karate. I want to get back to Karate, but I don't think I want to do the "Japanese" approach anymore. I'd rather do Goju-Ryu, Uechi-Ryu or Kyokushin. I like the fights in Kyokushin, but I'm not a fan of their kata either. Besides they seem to have no interest in them either lol. Uechi-Ryu is very legit, but somehow not a big fan of open hand strikes either. Kind of look weird I may go with Goju-Ryu. I know I just need to try some classes, but with the pandemic the only thing I have is imagination 😂 Any thoughts? I do realize it sounds like I pay too much attention to style as you mention in the video, but I do believe that in most school the style plays a role and an focus orientation.

[@practicalkatabunkai]

@@jean4j_ You're welcome! Personally, I’d never judge any training by the style alone. I’ve seen good and bad instructors of almost all styles, and I’ve seen practical and impractical approaches within almost all styles too. When the pandemic permits, I’d go along to the groups in question, watch the training, and ask questions. Go with the one that best fits your training objectives.

[@jean4j_]

@@practicalkatabunkai Thank you very much. I appreciate you take time to answer your followers the way you do. To me, you're on your way to become an influential figure of Karate. Thanks again

[@berndlurk5548]

Do you have examples for changes that are going on? The only change I see is constant tweaking on minor movements in kata for competition reasons and I reject them all because makeing such a change does not make sense (to me). So now we have the Nakayama faction, the Kanazawa faction and the national trainer faction. Some people say: we do it like this because the national trainer does it this way and he literally said: some changes are just for looking good on competition. And what I see is that after 30 years of changes, they restart from the original. So I keep doing it like 60 years ago ^^

[@practicalkatabunkai]

It probably depends on the karate groups and practitioners you interact with. I personally see clever innovations on an almost daily basis. Lots of people sharing new drills and training methods. The “practical karate movement” has lots of great contributions.

[@berndlurk5548]

@@practicalkatabunkai Thanks for the clarification. In my book this is just training, not change :-) But I understand what you mean now. After thinking about other videos of yours I found a good example for change: I would consider replacing eastern etiquette with western etiquette to be a change. A major one too.

[@makenjikarate]

I absolutely love karate, but it does need innovations and pragmatic changes to suit us. If we keep doing the same thing it won't evolve and improve and might end up being left in the past and karateka will basically become historical preservation societies and LARPers.

[@kostaskakaris4092]

in.my humble view the first drastic change in karate was the decision to.bring it to the Japanese education system and thus hide or abolish its true nature which is self defense...with it true bunkai was hidden , techniques were altered and it is not surprising that some modern masters ( even.japanese) interpret bunkai in a non practicable or very theoretical way.. especially for Japanese karate how traditional can be an art of 100 years old ?

[@revariox189]

I believe in some way that unfortunately most were "sold" Karate wrong. Many of previous generations as well and they simply recreate what they have been taught and never coming to the point of innovation. Karate needs to go back to it's root. As much as people claim change is needed, a return to the source is needed. Changed occured when people decided to copy paste movements without understanding. Not to be mean but this whole decyphering of Bunkai shouldn't even be a thing period. Kata are to be learned and understood as they are being learned not simply a series of movement and breathing with loud screams at certain specific point. It's unfortunate that the true essence and meaning of Karate has been lost to commercialisation of the art itself.... But then again, one would argue that whatever art it is, when money becomes involved the art loses. Many rap artist claim rap died in '89 when it started to hit radio and billboards and now it was about making money and competing to make money, not just lyricism and life in their neighbourhood or what have you. In Martial Arts it seems the selling went into how to amass the most students and keep them for as long as possible. Which I can understand as I too would like to live off my practice of Martial Arts. But in doing so, you adapt, you waterdown, you lose focus and Bunkai of Kata, you become a belt factory taking in "little ninjas or little tigers", essentialy a daycare with some punches and kicks. Adult classes look like the kid's version but with less games.... I am exgagerating, depending of where the location is not that much.

[@eisbombenterror]

Karateka have to realize one simple fact: What they are doing now is not the original martial art that was practiced before 1900. In fact, it's not even a martial art anymore! Not in the sense of a fighting art. Around 1900 karate was changed into a workout practice, losing much of it's fighting abilities. Many of the so-called "karate principles" were in fact taken from gekiken/kendo and do not apply to old-style karate. They were taken to transform the martial art into a shinbudo art and a kick-and-punch combat sport in the following decades. This was done intentionally and is quite well documented. So it would be completely fine if karateka would stick to this and not claiming to practice a martial art. Instead they claim to practice a fighting art, because they were told that karate was a fighting art. And it goes on because there is ego involved. There is power involved. And finally, let's be honest: There quite a bit of money involved! In monthly fees, in yearly fees, in seminar fees, in exam fees, in books, videos, etc. It will be all gone if the gullible and ignorant wake up and realize that thing's are not as they were told. Waking up would also mean that somebody has to admit that he actually knows nothing at all and the rank has actually no real value. So it is easier to keep it all as it is known in an act of self-deception instead of adventuring into unknown territories - just to explore, learn and discover. This created some kind of cult mentality in the karate community. This goes so far that you can actually prove a point with hard facts - and it is completely ignored nonetheless. Karate - or better - japanese karate has become a cult. To save karate for the future you have to leave the cult mentality behind, step out and change karate again to fit the new purposes you want. This means leaving a lot of ballast behind. And keep in mind: 出る杭は打たれる. This tiny detail of japanese culture prevents changes...

[@DK-iy6zy]

Unless I am really miss reading things it sounds like you are throwing the baby out with the bath water, and by that I mean you are getting hung up on how karate has been practiced versus what it is and can be. When one looks at the variations in kata between different schools of karate, one readily see’s that most these differences are superficial at best, and therefore do not change the functionality of karate, nor its applicability in combat situations. How karate has been practiced as 3k - kata, kihon, and kumite, and never shall the three meet, is what has created the karate you see today. So the issue is how you train, not what you train. This is the debate that has been growing thanks to Iain and other proponents as to look beyond just the 3k style of karate that has been practiced, and go back to more effective training methods, and keep karate the effective combat/self defence system it is.

[@jean4j_]

Little reaction about the racism part of your video. What an interesting and tricky aspect of the debate :) Well I'm not a big fan of the whole American Karate or American Kempo (to be honest I never quite understood what it is) To me, karate changes can be done by anybody. That being said to me, Karate need to remain Japanese or Okinawan, the name of the techniques should stay in japanese, katas should be practiced. I've seen in the comments some people want to replace the Asian mindset by a western one. Well there's a point where karate can stop being karate if too much things are taken from it. Karate has its own identity, some changes can Indeed being great especially in the ways of training. But karate is not MMA, at least my opinion. There's a philosophy, culture and mindset attached to it. Everybody have their own definition of what karate is i suppose, so it's cool.

[@practicalkatabunkai]

I’m OK with karate adapting to the culture in which it is practised; just as it did when it reached the shores of Japan, and just as the Okinawan’s took the Chinese methods and made them their own. These videos may be of interest. Traditional things I do ( kzbin.info/www/bejne/a3athaehp9t2qKs ) and don’t do ( kzbin.info/www/bejne/foTcp4aueNSWgbs ).