Changes Like Coltrane

[@olivierherment1188]

i understand 10% I feel 50% I like 100%

[@12tone]

^_^

[@Grohl85]

Olivier Herment yep, me too

[@paxwallacejazz]

Olivier Herment this stuff could be stated more simply but he's trying for a more comprehensive explination. Get a working jazz musician to watch it with you and have your questions prepared in advance. Ok on 2nd watching this is about as simple as you can make it. Just remember theory is sound. Theory is sound.

[@paxwallacejazz]

Olivier Herment let me say this in overview the function that advanced harmony serves is to enhance ambiguity in music enhanced ambiguity creates a more expressive music. If you keep pushing this ambiguity than you move form colorful expressivity to impressionistic mystery if you push it further then you begin to explore polytonality. If you go beyond that you reach free atonality. The step beyond that is serial 12 tone music. Hope this helps.

[@AmandaKaymusic]

This is sound sound theory. : )

[@phoboswhiplash]

Dude... this is whole 90 minutes of class in a music institune, I learnt a lot in five minutes, not only that but it made me connect some dots that I felt while listening to Coltrane's tunes. Thank you man, you are really awesome, for a person who loves music but has to be self-taught in the topic, this is the best.

[@MilkMuscles]

Now Giant Steps seem a bit easier to play on haha thanks man

[@je-pq3de]

If youre soloing try thinking like this: instead of playing the dominant scales on the dominants, play the corresponding dorian scales so that your tonal center moves down in whole steps (Gmaj-f dorian - Eb maj - c# dorian- B maj - a dorian repeat)

[@nickmonks9563]

Coltrane taught me how Jazz worked. It was an amazing revelation the day I was listening and heard what was REALLY happening under there. Powerful stuff.

[@12tone]

^_^

[@officialsamrankin]

Great stuff; beautiful progressions! I don't think I've ever commented on a KZbin video before, but I feel stirred out of my silence to say thank you. Your videos are wide-ranging, well-paced, entertaining, enlightening, and I will fight anybody who says otherwise. Keep it up!

[@12tone]

Thanks! I really appreciate that. Honestly, it means a lot.

[@asdfjklol]

1:58, a good way to remember these chords is to notice that each step is going up a 4th (5 half steps), which is equivalent to going counterclockwise on the circle of 5ths.

[@robertr.hasspacher7731]

bruh this is like some knowledge that I want to be privy to so bad it hurts. Thanks

[@12tone]

Thanks!

[@griffin8762]

man your videos are REALLY good. Like REALLY good.

[@12tone]

Thanks!

[@todoroki]

Ok, I just discovered these videos and I am BLOWN AWAY by such a unique mix of theory, humor and video editing skills. Its pretty difficult to keep up with your pace but it's a lot of fun trying to. Thanks alot!

[@12tone]

Aw, thanks!

[@CletoFrost]

are these drawings lil elephants?

[@brothekid1072]

Almost 4 years later, you get your answer. Yes.

[@OriginalKingRichTv]

@@brothekid1072 no it’s a donkey 🤡. It’s the assuming it’s genetic makeup for me

[@Professorelliot]

50s/60s jazz. Yet another topic I've been meaning to learn more about! Congrats on 100 videos!

[@12tone]

Geez, what is it with you and "learning", Elliot?

[@Professorelliot]

I don't know, but it's definitely coincidental to the name

[@12tone]

Psh. If you love learning so much, why don't you go MARRY IT?

[@Professorelliot]

12tone Fine then! I will!

[@segmentsAndCurves]

@@12tone Don't give me PTSD!

[@jeff7775]

Fantastic vid. You and Adam Neely are making my insomnia bearable these days. Mucho gracias! Subbed...

[@DucksUpDogsDownCatsSlide]

Coincidental story, I just turned on the tv to the jazz masters channel and lo and behold "Naima" by John Coltrane is playing.

[@12tone]

^_^

[@Jefferson-ly5qe]

Jebus Christ What a beautiful song. It really shows the other side of Coltrane's personality.

[@samuelbeltrami5647]

My favorite ballad ever

[@Grohl85]

for me to hear somebody talk about jazz is like heaven. thank you 😊

[@12tone]

^_^

[@timseeger9180]

Amazing how much information you're able to put in a 5 minute video it's insane! Thanks so much, you really sparked my interest in music theory! (I make notes of all the stuff you say and it's crazy how much can go over your head on a first watch)

[@AmandaKaymusic]

Love these changes changing. Thank you 12Tone. The forklift brought me a smile.

[@frank68x]

I heard Giant Steps as a kid...changed my life.

[@nrauschermusic]

Dig it! Some more details not discussed. The descending seconds ii-V progression shown before the major thirds V-I loops back on itself as well going descending in whole steps produces a whole tone scale. Things that distinguishes the traditional Coltrane progression more from the descending fifths/descending seconds progression include how quickly we cycle back to our initial tonic and how much farther away the keys are from one another when separated by four accidentals as opposed to 2. As well, chromatic mediant relationships have been explored since the romantic era by Beethoven, Chopin, and Liszt. There are even jazz standards that predate Coltrane such as "Have You Met Miss Jones" whose bridge can be anachronistically identified as "Coltrane changes". As with most theory, it's in the way we hear the chords, not the chords themselves, that define the concept and the way Trane used them.

[@YuvalS.8026]

Thank you! I love your videos and its the first time I understood the Coltrane changes. you explain very well, yet shortly and entertaining

[@farflebfarfle]

Awesome video! I play the saxophone and sometimes when I'm practicing, I stare at this poster I have of JC. His music is inspirational, to say the least.

[@12tone]

Thanks! Yeah, Coltrane was a genius. Very inspirational figure.

[@billyalarie929]

Same initials as Jesus Christ, coincidence? I mean, probably.

[@tommy2318]

Great video! For those saying it's difficult to understand, a big part of it is just playing through/over those changes, whatever your instrument. I've played Giant Steps a few times now in jam sessions and you start getting the hang of it just by feel... Then keep going back to the theory shown here and compare it with what you experience when you play through them. Takes time.

[@12tone]

Thanks! That's a good explanation: In the end, it all comes down to actually trying things out and seeing how they sound.

[@julswils890]

This was so enlightening! I've been behind in my theory game, and this has me very excited!

[@thomasbroadbent9518]

Holy cow, so I just realised why the twelve bar blues is so good. It’s because the online major 7 chords are on the Tonic and the Subdominant . This is because there so stable and turn into the keycentres of the solo the greatest tention in the piece is the dominant seventh which is why it feels so good

[@23hojojo]

this was the first video from you that I saw. i actually googled or should I say yootoubled on coltrane changes and this was the only one that really helped me.

[@12tone]

Glad we could help!

[@DemonSlide]

Thank you. Hadn't been able to fully understand this until I saw this video. Please explain more jazz theory. You do it in a great way. Cheers!

[@marcelofunicelli3471]

one of the coolest videos i've ever saw

[@rileyday1434]

You did my suggestion! I love it. Keep rockin!

[@12tone]

Thanks!

[@AmandaKaymusic]

Good suggestion, thanks.

[@ousiavazia]

lol 3:33 i love this... key

[@Torthrodhel]

I love mucking around with what parts of chords "shouldn't" be major or minor (including the steps between them). :D great fun

[@adamtaylor2142]

Incredible work. Thank you.

[@Doccraw]

That was explained very well. Thanks!

[@timbeaton5045]

Er. like wow. Have seen vids on this topic before, but this one stands out. Will have to watch this multiple times, at a keyboard, even though i'm not a keyboard player.

[@guillermoperonaguerrero9080]

Thank you so much. I was learning the chords of Giant Steps on this days and I was wondering if they had some kind of logic, now I can see that yes. Thank you.

[@12tone]

Thanks, glad we could help!

[@nyhyl]

Coltrane was such a genius!!

[@LarsFuxion]

thank you! your videos help to understand. greets from germany:)

[@12tone]

Thanks!

[@geoffstockton]

The example you referred to as beginning the progression wrong is actually the Coltrane substitution for the II-V-I. Dm7 G7 Cmaj7 becomes Dm7 Eb7 Abmaj7 B7 Emaj7 G7 Cmaj7. Obviously doubling the rate of changes. "Countdown" is actually the structure from Miles Davis' "Tune-Up" with that treatment of the II-V-Is contained within. 26-2 is the same treatment of another standard, I forget which.

[@12tone]

Yep! I didn't want to go into too much detail 'cause it wasn't super important to the point I was making, but yeah, that's pretty much what's going on. Thanks for elaborating!

[@geoffstockton]

12tone ...and thank YOU for putting out such a wealth of awesome videos!

[@CloroxBleach-wu4zg]

COLTRANE IS A GENUIS!!

[@RoelsWorldBlog]

Coltrane wasn't the first one using those changes. These changes can be found in the bridge "Have you met miss Jones", composed by Richard Rogers in 1937. Of course Coltrane took these changes a step further and with Giant Steps made a mark in Jazz history with it. Perhaps though the "Coltrane changes" should be referred to as "Rogers changes", if you want to credit the first who used it in Jazz with it. ;)

[@Flowmotion1000]

Roels World Interesting comment there. I wonder if anyone will actually take note of that though, or might it just be a little too inconvenient.

[@heavydevy-c5630]

I gotta admit when I was a saxophonist playing all kinds of Jazz, John Coltrane was my least favorite to play. I didn't really like his music, then when I got into different sounds of music, theme scoring and music theory, I'm absolutely fascinated by him. Now I think I understand. These chord changes are really not common lol. Coltrane is experimental, more than me. This guy really does do whatever the hell he wants lol.

[@oldemail2838]

Genius explanation

[@12tone]

Thanks!

[@jordonwiersema2807]

"Keep on rockin'" I think I'll groove, thank you. :)

[@alfonshomac]

You're my new favorite content creator.

[@12tone]

Thanks!

[@Envy_May]

4:39 *_ya_* *_su_* *_mi_* *_o_* *_ya_* *_su_* *_mi_*

[@noahaikens2862]

Can you please try and explain Coltrane's Ascension? It's one of the most trippy works of art ever.

[@TheHappyLeperBeaver]

Wow, I can't recall the last time I gave my sub so quickly, you are an extremely talented educator and your videos are never boring or giving headaches, you are the shit! Thanks a lot

[@12tone]

Aw, thanks!

[@frednow]

Well done analysis!

[@12tone]

Thanks!

[@frednow]

Btw, and I'm sure you already know this, but although the II chord does function as a subdominant in a II-V-I given that it's the relative minor substitution for the literal subdominant IV chord, the II chord is actually the supertonic.

[@12tone]

True! Although, to be perfectly honest, I tend to avoid the extended chord function names, 'cause I find they obfuscate more than they clarify. Grouping things under the three primary functions of Tonic, Dominant, and Subdominant gives you a framework for understanding the roles they're actually playing in a composition, whereas, as far as I can tell, names like "Supertonic" and "Mediant" just tell you where in the scale it's located. There's certainly times where they're helpful, but I mostly prefer to just use the roman numerals for that and leave the function names to describe what the chord's doing, if that makes sense. To each their own, though: If the extended names work better for how you think about things then I'm certainly not trying to say you're wrong to use them! They just don't really work for me.

[@paxwallacejazz]

I went through a period when I was inserting Coletrane Substitutions in many many standards.

[@johndevonshire8554]

I read years ago that Coltrane's album My Favorite Things was the biggest selling album of all time. I don't remember if that was limited to Jazz or all genres of music. My vote goes to the latter. I have NO understanding of the technology of music, I only know what I like.

[@jdrosborough]

Outstanding.

[@edsonlopes408]

Man you are a genius. I am a coltrane fan, and I ever try to understand that, so that's a big present you give me. Thank man. God bless you

[@12tone]

Thanks!

[@Yetipfote]

"Great?? Wonnnderfull!"

[@DrJoePeters]

Excellent!!

[@Adam_SE]

Thanks for all your great videos! Is the process of time remapping to sync your drawings with the script difficult?

[@12tone]

Thanks! It's not usually difficult, per se, but it's pretty time-consuming. By the time it gets to that stage all the creative decisions have already been made, so I'm just going through a mechanical process of cutting clips and speeding them up, but I'd say that, for every two minutes of final footage you see, I probably did about an hour of that editing. This one was a little longer 'cause I made a stupid mistake while filming that I had to work around, but that's usually a pretty good estimate.

[@kibavlood5826]

Hey love your videos and your stuff truly is a diamond in the rough, if I may make a suggestion. Could you slow down just a little, it was hard for me to grasp all your lucrative knowledge.

[@12tone]

Thanks for the feedback, I'll keep it in mind!

[@dejiadefuye2047]

@12tone I kid you not, I think you're my telepathic twin. My handwriting looks just like yours, I am also an avid music lover, and I'm left-handed myself, too!

[@12tone]

^_^

[@elwoodwarren-kuelgen8874]

I'm confused. The descending 2-5 chain makes since. If you go from d to g then from c to f you are going up from the 2 to the 5 and then doing the same thing a step lower. But in the example in the video of the Coltrane changes you start by going from a Ebma7 to F#7 which is not the same as a 2-5 progression. The distance between those two chords is a minor 3rd which you would normally never see in a 2-5 progression. Can someone please explain this to me?

[@CMM5300]

Yeah wowow I was working on improving over the key changes of giant steps.... felt like I was on a never ending augmented cycle ... interesting enough there is one note of the pentatonic that leads into the next key....

[@TravisMcInroy]

So basically, Coltrane changes are just essentially moving in Major Thirds via the II-V's of each key?

[@stilo2703]

Did Trane ever actually play with Parker? I don't think so but I'm not positive 0:18

[@wids]

Great video. keep it up man

[@12tone]

Thanks!

[@wenzhiquan]

I wish I understood half of what was said, but I’m eager to learn more jazz/jazz theory. Any suggestions on best place to start for noobies?

[@briankeegan8089]

Try 12tones "building blocks" series.

[@sugabebop]

We like the jazz

[@sergiilomako6131]

hey! i got request for you if it possible. Can you do a video how to substitute common types of turnarounds with coltrane changes cuz it gets tricky to figureout from wich point you should star that for example in / iii7 VI7 / ii7 V7 /. I think it happens cuz they move between the bar line. Any way thanks you are telling about a great stuff on this channel =)

[@francesoneill5495]

very good excellento!

[@rub800]

excellent videos, suscribed!

[@12tone]

Thanks!

[@magnificentelectromagnetic7417]

cool vid, thanks

[@12tone]

Thanks!

[@bengalidoom7626]

In which song did coltrane use minor third cycles?

[@daman7387]

At 0:11 is that how you pronounce Louis Armstrong? Have I been saying it wrong my whole life?

[@highway67theband]

Is there a slower version of this video lol

[@pabzum]

The “*infamous* song” Giant Steps?!?

[@ChopinDolphy]

Did you go to Berklee? You analyze harmony just like how they teach there

[@12tone]

Sort of. I did some summer programs there as a teenager, but my actual degree is from Musician's Institute. A lot of their best teachers are Berklee grads, though, so I still got that same approach.

[@KouameMatthieuNguessan]

Thank you for sharing! In the late 2016 I've been learning some Coltrane tunes as well. What can I say? All kwnoledge comes from GOD The Most High. The Creator!

[@swaroov9236]

I watched 2 times all i knew is coitraine did something extraordinary

[@enderstalker7278]

If you haven't already you should really do take five by Dave Brubeck

[@12tone]

Thanks for the suggestion! At this point, though, we receive so many song requests that we can really only focus on the ones from our Patreon patrons. We just don't have the time to look at every song that comes in, unfortunately. There's a link to our Patreon in the video description if you're interested, though!

[@AmandaKaymusic]

It can be fun to play with 4 against 5 adding a flavour.

[@alibobali4032]

Really nice. :)

[@iwanabana]

I think the minute from 4:15 to 5:15 could be expanded into a whole 10 minute video on its own..

[@Itboy1196]

Wow awesome

[@mrfudd13]

Two things: why don't you use ii (lower case) for the minor two chord? also check out Chan's Song, by H. Hancock, for chord changes. I'd like to hear what you think.

[@12tone]

I don't like the lower case approach because it doesn't extend well to more complex harmonies. In the system I use, you have a very clear mechanism: Take the chord symbol, replace the note name with a roman numeral representing its position in the scale. (Or one representing its position in a secondary scale if that's what you're doing.) With the lower case system, you have a slightly cleaner way of representing things if all you're doing is major and minor triads, but if it gets any more advanced than that, suddenly you have this system where you do _almost_ the thing I described above, except for one piece of information that gets represented differently. It's less simple and less clear, and the advantage gained even when working with just basic triads is, as far as I can tell, relatively minimal. I understand why people do it, but it just seems like a less effective system to me.

[@mrfudd13]

I can understand (now) how it works better in your world. I'm a singer, and my charts do get somewhat more complex than triads (13ths probably at the outer limit), I guess for pop/jazz charts, it's just the way I learned to do it. Thanks.

[@brownscorpio5245]

Whoo How To's on BEAST MODE

[@12tone]

^_^

[@noneyobusiness7331]

nothing on substituting the progression on top of 2-5's? Dm-G7-C = Dm-Eb7-Ab-B7-E-G7-C

[@RASTAxSKATE]

Don't forget Mr. Eric Dolphy, very innovative as well

[@12tone]

Very true! Coltrane was far from the only giant in the field!

[@julswils890]

Move that thing I'm happy with his statement on Chick Corea. Very fulfilling definition

[@noelbeltran2651]

The gummie bears at the end... 🤣

[@DomMinasi]

excellent

[@12tone]

Thanks!

[@planepantsgames1791]

Don't forget the sweet sculptural rhythms of Charles Mingus.

[@rca88]

First video I ever saw on youtube, and still one of the very best, Trane and Miles: kzbin.info/www/bejne/hKvch2uhl5eSaLs It's still outstanding, with it's long shots, and you get to see Miles hanging out with other musicians while the rest of the band carries on. Way cool. That video could not be made today, with all of today's awful rapid cutting style.

[@12tone]

Really cool, thanks for sharing!

[@Mappleconfusers]

I have got a request: Anything from snarky puppy!

[@llovebeats3749]

Very confusing video when it comes to theory, but good at explaining Coltrane.

[@12tone]

Thanks!

[@SoulVampireDarkGirl]

YOU'RE JUST SO COOL

[@12tone]

Aw, thanks!

[@OeyJamesmusic]

do u have online courses I could take for music theory and all the stuff u show in your videos?

[@12tone]

Nope, just the videos!

[@AmandaKaymusic]

Which are great and cover so many interesting topics.

[@ProjectPsyche]

Now I want to see a Debate between 12tone and Vox about 2-5 and 5-1

[@roanmccormick2297]

Very cool :)

[@12tone]

Thanks!

[@byronsigrano6849]

No mention of Slonimsky's book?

[@12tone]

I'm not all that familiar with Slonimsky, but I'll look him up! Could be a topic for a whole video on its own, thanks!

[@rajin95]

So 2 things. Coltrane never played with Bird although he was a big fan of his and Lazy Bird doesn't use Coltrane changes.

[@12tone]

My source on him playing with Parker: books.google.com/books?id=nNZQCgAAQBAJ&dq=john+coltrane&q=john+coltrane#v=snippet&q=john%20coltrane&f=false They never played in a long-term band together, to my knowledge, but my sources indicate that they shared the stage on occasion. On Lazy Bird, it doesn't have the full progression, but it has an allusion via variation. In bars 3-7 (And elsewhere) it goes Fmi7-Bb7-Ebma7-(Ami7-D7)-Gma7. If you treat the II-Vs as just their respective Vs, you have Bb7-Ebma7-D7-Gma7, which is the beginning of the Coltrane changes, with secondary dominants moving to major 7 chords a major third apart. He doesn't complete it, but it's clearly the same harmonic device at work and, as I mentioned at the end, Coltrane was relatively loose in his application of the Coltrane changes anyway so it seems entirely reasonable to view this as an allusion to the Coltrane changes and, in researching this video, I saw multiple people doing just that. You are correct that he never plays the full Coltrane Changes in their theoretically pure form in Lazy Bird, but then again he doesn't do that in Giant Steps either and people seem pretty willing to apply them to analyzing that song.

[@rajin95]

Interesting bit about Bird. I've read so much stuff on Trane before, but I've never seen that they interacted so much. Also to your point about lazy bird, I don't necessarily agree with your loose interpretation of what Coltrane Changes are, but based on how you frame it in your video I do understand why you consider it to use Coltrane Changes

[@magnustips]

Cool

[@ZipplyZane]

I just don't feel like much was explained here. We gave why the changes shouldn't work, but I didn't see any indication of why they do actually work. The initial progression seems to work by using shared chord tones followed by fifths motion. The mediant allows you to change keys, while the fifths give direction. The major 7ths destabilize the key enough that moving from one key to the next isn't problematic, and avoids allowing the common chord tones from creating a diminished chord. At least, that's my analysis of why it works. I've not actually ever checked out these chord changes before.

[@12tone]

That's fair! It's been a while since we did this one so I don't remember everything I said, but as I recall, my main focus was on how the structure allowed you to keep hopping from key to key in a way that didn't really give you a strong sense of position within the cycle. The basic reason the relative keys work, as you say, is basically the chromatic mediant relationship they share.

[@ZipplyZane]

I really appreciate that you take the time to reply. I'm amazed you have time with as many subscribers as you have. I wonder how many you'll have to get before that becomes really hard. :) BTW, are you always the same guy? You say "we" a lot, so I wonder if you have more than one person answering stuff.

[@12tone]

It's already getting really hard, to be honest, but I try my best and I've so far been able to manage it. Eventually I'm sure that'll stop, but I want to keep trying for as long as possible. And yes, I'm always the same person responding. I say "we" 'cause my brother also works on the project, but he does mostly behind-the-scenes stuff: I'm the animator, narrator, script-writer, and theorist.

[@erault00]

cool cool but like Coltrane wasn't focused on II-V progressions he created giant steps as a vehicle for multi tonic soloing. Jazz and especially Trane can't be summed up by one brand of chord progressions(the II-V-I).

[@alexbericheath]

I have never heard anyone refer to a II-V-I as a II-V before, I am very confused

[@12tone]

Interesting! That's usually how I see them, and it's the way I prefer 'cause sometimes you don't actually go back to the I chord but the structure's still there, but either way, it's the same idea!

[@alexbericheath]

II-V and II-V-I are different things, I would recommend referring to them more clearly. It would be interesting to hear you talk about Messiaen by the way, great channel.

[@frednow]

No, II-V and II-V-I aren't different things ... II-V is just an abbreviated way of referring to II-V-I. As Mr. 12tone rightly says, II-V doesn't always lead to I, but when it doesn't it's a departure from the expectation that it would have done so.

[@CristiNeagu]

I don't understand jazz not even when explained in great detail to me...

[@massimookissed1023]

Wait. Jazz has harmony ?!

[@miguelfernandezmillan2829]

hey, I dont get why he goes from a maj7 to a 7 chord if that 7 chord is out of the key, like, totally out. as much, i can get its the dominant of the next key, but then there is no conection between keys but just V I progresions at a distance of 3rds. unless its just a forced change of key to make things interesting

[@12tone]

Yeah, I think it's to keep it moving as much as possible. It lets him keep grabbing new notes to toss in so things don't get stale.

[@crono303]

Well, one answer to that is good voice leading smooths over the jumpiness of the progression. When 7th chords are involved, usually any chord tone is just a half or whole step away from the one you're currently playing.