Changes to part l of the building regs, Seeing what changes affect plumbers and heating engineers.

Derek in this video takes a look at the purposed changes to part l of the building regulations England that will affect plumbers and heating engineers.

[@Lutonman2010]

Whilst I can see this being quite a headache for new builds & extensions etc. For retrospect installs I actually don’t think much is going to change because who’s going to enforce it? The building inspectors have no right of entry into peoples homes to check whether they’ve had all their rads changed on a boiler swap and I can’t see the gas safe inspectors wanting to police it either. Plus I see my inspector once every five year cycle, and I get to choose the jobs he visits. So going forward if I’ve got a pensioner on a fixed income, who’s boiler breaks Xmas week and I have to change it as an emergency. If they can’t afford new rads, new pipework, trvs, boiler plus, diamond encrusted unicorn etc etc then guess what job I won’t be taking the inspectors to see. All this will do is give lots more work to cowboy installers who simply will ignore the new regs. Those of us that will try to do it properly will get undercut and eventually unless we want our businesses to fold, we will have to work to the lower level as the cowboys or we simply won’t get any more work as we will get smashed on every quote we do. Because no one is gonna police it and force the cowboys to come up to our level. So instead of a race to the top it will become a race to the bottom.

[@tomkatgastraining]

I completely agree with you but at the end of the day your name will go on the building compliance certificate so if it does get policed ( but I doubt it ) then it will be you dragged to court because the customer won’t say they couldn’t afford it.

[@Lutonman2010]

@@tomkatgastraining Thats the problem. The good guys will do it right and lose out. I’ve lost count of the amount of jobs I go to where the benchmark wasn’t done on the install and the boiler isn’t registered. If someone can’t even be bothered to do that on an install, they sure as hell won’t be doing whole house heat loss calcs, upsizing rads, upsizing pipework, correct flushes etc. They are called ABC plumbing Ltd this week and XYZ plumbing next week. They won’t care. They will undercut us and walk away. Only the likes of us and all the really great installers that I know and work with will get hammered on this.

[@tomkatgastraining]

@@Lutonman2010 I wish I could say I disagree but I can’t. All we can do is hope that it gets policed or give us the tools to report the unregistered installs and if they see us reporting installs all the time then maybe they will make it mandatory to only be able to buy a boiler if you are gas safe registered and it is able to be tracked from purchasing to install.

[@effervescence5664]

@@tomkatgastraining They tried that at one point with other Gas related products, so you couldn't buy it over the counter in places like Screwfix etc. It fell through because it stopped customers supplying their own products and was shot down for being anti-consumer before it even made it off the table. Unfortunately they have made the industry very cowboy friendly with each "improvement" in legislation, generally because the people writing the regulations aren't the people doing work in the field. We have the same thing happen with EICR's in the electrical industry since the "mandated" reports for rented accommodation came in, 80 quid drive by EICR's compared to a competent inspection. As long as the box is checked no one follows up on it, ever.

[@tomkatgastraining]

@@effervescence5664 maybe then heat pumps is the way forward to stopping cowboys and customers

[@milkman100001]

many thanks derek for your input.your my go to updater at the moment.

[@dannyarcher]

I’ve given up on installs and now have a second source of income. Been doing the gas for 6yrs and frankly will probably leave in the next few as even in my short time frame I can’t believe how broken the system is. Not only will this probably not be policed, but then add on top the extra grief for self employed people competing with large national companies who get the boilers direct from manufacturers at crazily reduced prices. The industry needs a massive over haul.

[@rayc1503]

Excellent upload Derek thanks for keeping us abreast of what changes are ahead of us. It really does seem that they're trying to push a lot of gas engineers away and possibly towards renewables. As with driving they just make the tests more difficult. I'm seriously thinking of starting heat pump training. As I already do electrics I may be biting more then I can chew. let's see where the gas industries headed first. 👍

[@tlangdon12]

It's difficult to see that the gas heating industry is going to change much now, given the move to towards renewables. The only foreseeable change in gas appliances is the addition of hydrogen to the natural gas supply. I'd recommend getting your heat pump training as soon as you think you can spare the time. It will help with all the low temperature gas heating work you do.

[@bentzionroyde4786]

Thanks Derek great video Thanks for the update 👍

[@rickd6421]

I totally agree with you Derek about insulating flow pipes in floor voids between floors. What is the point when the radiant heat loss is used inside the fabric of the building. The extra cost incured for upgrading existing heating to comply with the new regs has to be passed onto the customer, so a 55 degree boiler flow temperature through an existng 10mm pipework and undersized radiators is going to cause a problems. Great video Derek and i look forward to your informative changes and updates

[@tlangdon12]

The purpose of insulating flow pipes between floor voids is to avoid wasting energy by having it leak out into rooms that don't need it. When a TRV has restricted the flow of water through a rad in a room, any warmth added to the room might take the room temperature above the set point of the TRV. The heat is better off being kept in the pipework to be fed either to the rooms that need it or back to the boiler so that it can modulate down to a lower level. You might say such losses are small, but waste is waste, and it adds up over the life of a building.

[@johnlesoudeur3653]

Having said that I have 10mm microbore and a Baxi 830 (original rads). I have turned the flow temperature to 55 degrees and everything is fine. House keeping warm and boiler condensing as it should. Maybe I am lucky with the oversizing of the installed radiators.

[@chrisillingworth7967]

Thanks for the info Fantastic video as always

[@marcrufus5814]

fantastically informative thanks!

[@scottnever8732]

eye opening video thanks Ashton

[@markcliff9923]

Very informative yet again Derek, I take it this will apply to oil, solid fuel and woodburners. People will just not be able to afford the implementations to the regs. Makes me realise what a dinosaur I must be, I may as well throw the old Mears calculator through the window then. I can't think of any other industry that's changed so much in the last 40 years, the heat loss calculations are not a new thing we had to do these in the old City and Guilds basic craft exams in the late 70s long hand no calculators. Bring on retirement 😄😄 Well done once again

[@tomkatgastraining]

Old guys like us mate have a head start as we know about pipe and rad sizing but I guess there will be an app for that 😜

[@markcliff9923]

@@tomkatgastraining Yeh it's called "Rule of Thumb" Thanks Derek 👍

[@garyhawkins9246]

Why don’t they legislate the boiler manufacturer’s to make all their Boilers Open Therm compatible and have a kit so the current Boilers with Weather compensation can be converted to run EMS or similar to Open Therm, then you could use Third Party Controls on any Boiler such as Nest and convert S-Plans to X-Plan or Diverter Valve Hot Water Priority, then we can reduce Flow Temperatures using Weather Compensation at minimal cost to the customer

[@tomkatgastraining]

Good point 👍🏻

[@petercarter5732]

Good update Derick thank you I totally agree all boilers should be open therm vaillant controls may work well but unfortunately they are to complicated and get left on manual For many years I have wanted to change the flow temp on a boiler so it runs at say 50 for underfloor heating and then boosts to 65 for hot water vaillant do make a module VR 33 ? But if you fit it to a uk boiler vaillant won’t warrant the boiler the board is available from Norway ? I think the government should make boiler companies offer less complicated user friendly controls. I used the HHIC Heat loss calculator it actually worked you could set your radiator design flow rate then they sold it to programmers who messed it up and charged a subscription for it which I refused to pay We need companies to come out with a electronic printable programme that gives accurate radiator sizing allowing for user defined MWT I am at the point of retirement although still gas safe registered am not currently working

[@simonmander4314]

Great vid Derek. Ideal Logic and Worcester Ri, 2 massive selling boilers - I don't think either of these have the ability to range rate down to match the property. Logic combis are all fixed for CH output I think. Wondering how this is going to work...

[@slug781]

The end of micro bore. Thank the lord for that. It’s shite.

[@richardholdway9335]

When I started you had 3 different boilers for each output OF. BF and fan flue for ,then everyone went to fan flue so boiler making just made 3 sizes,now with this new reg in June the output will be reduced further so basically smaller boilers will be required ,so will boiler maker only make one size of boiler ,so if so there cost have fallen dramatically over the last 20/30 years but the cost of a new gas boiler is nearly £1000 and rising ,just a thought

[@dugandav1]

Yes the tiny heat loss in underfloor pipes will in mostly go into the actual room above the floor so yes, technically there is little or no heat loss so WHY does it matter. Well, 2 reasons, partly, its actually much simpler to keep the regs the same - this limits the tradesperson from using their own judgement and forming their own opinion about where/when insulation should be used which could potentially limit the damage a poor/lazy trade just telling the customer that we do not need to insulate there or under hear and I am sure all you professional tradespeople can see where I am going with this. Secondly, what we are aiming for is just to heat the room up to the temperature set by the thermostat via the customer. The heat that does not pass out through holes/voids in the cavity, will eventually come up through the floor, underlay and the carpet. However, this heat could still be coming up even after the thermostatic rad/valve has been shut down. Thus, potentially over heating the room and wasted energy as its hotter than it actually needed to be. In some extreme cases, the customer could end up actually opening the window and letting the heat out! There are also some other advantages, pipes move and in some cases poorly installed pipes can ware on the bent nail/pipe fittings which can result in premature failure. Insulated pipes can reduce this occurrence as well as reduce noise levels which can particularly apparent when there is air in the system and/or when not enough support was provided to the pipe. On balance, I think this is a good regulation.

[@briantrueman3505]

Top lad Mark honest and down to earth 👍👍

[@sutt5828]

Many more jobs to not get for being to expensive ( doing your job! ) great vid 🤙🏻

[@themadhatter4761]

Another great video Derek thanks. Glad I’m retiring soon. Whats not taken into consideration is that no one will be able to afford to put he heating on soon 🤣

[@robertsmart7484]

Heating will be slightly more affordable with the more efficient low flow temperature boiler systems.

[@jimiangeles2784]

thanks for the info.

[@fjrxj1134]

Hello all, the new Part L came into force 15 June 2022, Derek explained this very well and a kind thank-you. I have a question: If an ongoing contract to replace obsolete Gas boilers started before the 15th June 2022; can this same contract continue to run under the old Part L indefinitely, or would the new Part L need to be followed after a certain date? Thanks in advance.

[@davidbanfield1321]

I think the customer should arrange to have the heat loss survey done by an independent accredited company and then this information can be given to installers to allow them to quote. Registering installs through gas safe can then only be permitted when accompanied with the heat loss calcs.

[@kevinwilliams1421]

Good idea mate…going to take full day to work a price out

[@tomkatgastraining]

Thought about this myself. If we were all changing £350 to do a Survey the customers will be forking out thousands by the time they find the cheapest quote they like.

[@dougbarlow]

I have a very dry house because it’s ventilated and leaks a bit of heat out, it costs a couple of hundred quid a year extra but at least there is no damp. On a flat I also own is so well insulated and sealed it constantly has condensation and damp problems.

[@claremulhall8130]

I'm a bit concerned about the install I started in January but won't be finished until late summer due to being part of a bigger project - I sized the radiators to run at delta t 50 rather than what the new regs will be delta T 35. I agree with what you say about heat loss into rooms from between floors. Insulation doesnt make sense (except on secondary circulation which will be run in summer on an unvented cylinder in which case insulate everything. I install ATAG boilers in general, For a current new install with unvented cylinder I have upsized radiators to run at 55 degrees, (Radiators are about 1.6 normal size) ATAG sell a priority hot 3 port valve which operates the boiler at full load for priority hot water cylinder heating but then 55 degree for heating load which will solve this problem (although not cheap) of Legionella in unvented cylinder.

[@tomkatgastraining]

You will be ok as the project started before the changes 👍🏻

[@richwaight]

Very interesting and informative video! Will these regs be strciter for landlords?

[@timhancock6626]

I'm going to spend a few quid getting my woolly jumper knitting ticket. Seriously though, my house is 1885, stone build with rubble cavity, so not exactly a model of insulation. We went fully pumped and condensing boiler with TRVs and roomstat/ cylinder stat in 1992...thats 30 years ago and eight years before I trained as a plumber/ heating engineer ( at a ripe age I should add). Since then I've swapped the rads for convectors, going from singles to doubles (2012) ( for lower flow temp) put a better insulated hw cylinder in (2005) swapped the boiler in 2016 for one that will modulate, added a very basic programmable stat ( Center Brand/Honeywell) and installed the weather compensation plug in kit. I also renewed all the TRVS, but that was a swap. We have further work to do on insulation, though we have done quite a lot. We are not in a good location for solar ( well I think it could work, the wife strongly disagrees and yes she is qualified too). A heat pump would be an expensive disaster. I'm not quite sure where we go from here to be honest ! ( psst......I've got a Mears calculator too 😂😂) I'm retired now, but do follow Derek and find his videos valuable. Yes I'm amazed how much has changed in the 18 months since I chucked it in. How much is progress is a different matter.

[@acelectricalsecurity]

My house is a similar age, and it's got a combi. I can see exactly what's going to happen here, just like it does with my trade (electrical), you are going to get plumbers going to a job telling people they have to comply with modern building regs then hitting them with a big bill, and this will be for two reasons, they haven't got a clue how to implement building regs, or they do know building regs are not retrospective and think sod it I am going to cane them. Because it would be impossible to implement those changes on an existing dwelling. And the guy should be saying this in his videos, but he gives the impression that this is what you will have to do when you go to any job, which isn't the case.

[@jamiehazell2866]

One thing to note if you install a gas boiler into a new home under these regs you MUST have solar panels sized 40% of the floor area, so not a ban that will be unlikely for alot of new builds.

[@tonygard1424]

I’ve fitted full Drayton Wiser trv controls to my 2018 new build and connected to the Ideal Logic via Opentherm. The boiler flow always runs at over 70°c regardless of demand and outside temperature. Does the 55°c rule render Opentherm controls obsolete?

[@handle1196]

Is the 55c flow so that its in condensing mode full time? Would a return temp under 55c not make it condense all the time anyway. If a boiler was ran at 80c with 60c return, mwt 70 minus 20 room temp, we are always in condensing mode anyway on the return at 50c?

[@BluesonichdUk]

and after all that stick a 30kw combi in and be done with it

[@L.C.Sweeney]

Back here whilst reading through the regs myself. Just thought I'd add that the problem with not insulating pipes in voids means that the heat radiated from the pipes actually ends up heating the floor as well as the surrounding rooms. A heated object will distribute heat throughout itself and surrounding objects and this in itself is a loss of heat as the kinetic heat energy is doing work to heat up the molecules in the surrounding building material.

[@christastic100]

Great vlog . You can have your boiler set for 55 deg and top up your tank temperature once every few days to kill bacteria with immersion heater . Just on the lagging pipes in between floor joists it’s as daft as putting lagged vent pipes . Lagged vent pipes are a oxymoron as the air they carry goes outside and also they condensate and fill with bacteria ridden yuk . Don’t you sometimes think that practical people don’t come up with some of these ideas. Almost Every time I see TRVs they are set on max or minimum by the customer.

[@bimble7240]

Surely that is because some customers don't understand what TRVs do. I alqways check to make sure they know how to set them.

[@milkman100001]

so does that mean that we now have to chop more out of the joists to get lagging on?

[@davegardner2258]

Thank God I had a new boiler fitted last year.

[@davidrobbins9401]

Great new video again

[@tomkatgastraining]

Thanks are kid 😜

[@phasedout6769]

For system boilers you still won't require a constant higher flow temperature. As with heat pumps a legionella cycle is sufficient. With the rest of the building regs it seems like they are priming housing stock for the uptake of heat pumps. With the pump cut off... does that now mean that bronze pumps feeding secondary returns have to be wired to movement sensors within rooms where outlets are present?. I love a good reg that is vague and completely unclear on its practical application. Clip board warrior certified no doubt.

[@tomkatgastraining]

Your cylinder will still have to take the water temperature over 65 oc once a week using an immersion heater if you have lower flow temperatures and the bronze pumps on secondary return need to be on a separate time clock. You are correct about being vague and they will be open to abuse because who will police them.

[@gregoliver240]

So am I right in thinking the only time you won’t need to size a boiler to the heat loss if it’s a combi?

[@mike-ology22]

The reason temperatures are being dropped is because of heat pumps running heating at 50°c so they want us to turn the boilers down. If you have a combi, this doesn't really matter but like you said, it will with a hot water cylinder that stores water. On a heat pump they have a legionella cycle once a week that raises the cylinder temperature to 60°c. What should happen is a major upgrade with programmers that you can control the boiler like an aircon system. Running the boiler once on a Friday at 60° and the rest of the week at 50°c. Thanks for sharing

[@mike-ology22]

Lagging pipes in the new systems will provide a more consistent delta-t. Heat pumps need a 5°dT on the return and the heat loss in the pipework has been pre calculated. If you have too much loss, the rooms won't heat up enough. Most of what you are talking about is mainly for heat pumps. They're getting rid of boilers in 2028 making it impossible to install them in new builds. We also don't want the hot and cold pipes running in the same floors, to heat up or cool down, so its better to insulate pipework everywhere. I thing we should be developing more environmentally friendly lagging though, if this is the case. We don't want endless extra toxic materials in our homes that would be impossible to recycle when it all needs to be replaced.

[@stuartwellington8827]

Would like to know if council will keep up with inhibitor and cleaning of system

[@milkman100001]

so are you saying that if we swap an old boiler we have to do rad calcs?

[@geetee50]

Back in 2005 i'sh i took an energy efficacy course and since then I've fitted TRV's to bedrooms as 'compulsory' and other rooms as advisory. I also do a boiler sizing form that we were taught that involves measuring every room and window type, U-Values for roof and floors and location factors, took me around 2-3 hours total from drive out to work it out, usually i would offer a price based on best to worst case then go ahead with finalising with the form after acceptance for the job. I cant believe many of these updates have taken so long to become compulsory. Also you kept saying 55*c flow to condense when its 55*c and below at return.

[@handle1196]

I didnt realise the 55c and below ideal temp for condensing was on the return. Whats the point in a 55 flow then? This would give a return of 35c. Is there a minimum return temp where it doesnt condesnse again

[@Umski]

@@handle1196 this is where some thought by specifiers (i.e. engineering and maths) is needed as to what's happening as the whole system warms up and settles - there is also a risk of unnecessary cycling of the boiler if the rads aren't getting rid of the heat quickly enough and hence the need for balancing. In theory having the flow rate set at 55+20 could be done but as the room temps/TRVs reach their set point less heat is lost to the rooms and the return temp increases again, potentially close to 75C (even with modulation as most boilers can't go down to near zero output without cycling) so actually the lower the return, the better with the caveat that is the rads are too small then the return won't drop and the boiler will simply switch off until that heat is lost and then efficiency drops due to the on/off of the burners. There is no minimum temp as such - the colder return allows the boiler to 'pull' latent heat from the flue gases and this just doesn't happen above 55C due to dew point of water, so I guess this legislation is there to ensure that the return will never, ever be above 55C - that won't stop plumbers or homeowners turning up the knob to 80C as their rads are undersized or it 'feels cold' - the only way might be to prevent boiler OEMs from allowing CH temps to go above 55C, whilst allowing DHW to go higher to prevent legionnaires etc - it's also why combi boilers supplying HW can't condense - there's no return! There is a sharp shock coming to a lot of gas folks in the next 10 years as much feet stamping as there is at the moment!

[@jezlucas3878]

yup we did that too

[@handle1196]

@@Umski thanks for that. So can a gas system boiler condense if used with an unvented cylinder, or is it just the same as the combi. I've been looking at system boilers and storage combis like viessmann for a self build project and sizing the radiators and UFH for max 50 or 55c flow. Id consider ashp but the prices are literally double. Will gas be here in 5 years? Will hydrogen be a thing? Ashp doesn't work for existing old pipework and heat emitters. I'm considering a change of career into energy assessments ie:sap but not sure if its a good time or a bad time for it.

[@geetee50]

@@handle1196 exactly my point as 15*c - 20*c should be the temp drop of a system , if your only sending 55*c at flow your rads last in line will not be reaching 50*c as sized . Aiming for a 50*c return is perfect for full/longer condensing mode . As stated below installing larger rads if possible will create more heat loss and a more controllable return temp. The perfect return temp after balancing as said would of course be 50*c allowing all rads to heat up as they should so a flow of 60 to 65 is optimum.

[@paulrossiter9567]

Nice vid Derek 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 I think the government need to tackle fuel poverty first without adding all these additional works. 👍🏻

[@milkman100001]

how do you run 10mm copper tube in lagging in a chase for a drop to a rad?

[@johnhewer0]

Basically your going to need a independent site survey and price to there recommendations. Otherwise installers are going to get sued for any short fall in compliance. The installer are going to be liable for the performance of a building which will come under scrutiny when selling so it going to be a potential head ache for years.

[@davideyres955]

My pipes run under the floor but the floor isn’t well insulted to the outside world (it’s a chalet) so the pipes will loose heat. I’m in the process of putting in monitoring on the pipe temperatures via esp32 micro controllers. Will be interesting to see if it has any effect or not.

[@razorlicks7929]

Good video but a missed opportunity to have the approved docs displaying behind Derek reading LMFAO ;)

[@craigwatson7692]

There's a house I pass on the way to the merchants every morning (busy main road) with an incorrectly installed flue, the flue is literally touching the window frame as it comes through the wall, been like it years. It hasn't been installed to part J of the building regs, and although it's clearly visible to everyone, nothing has been done to correct it. So how are we to expect these new regs are going to be policed when the work is hidden behind a closed door?

[@kevinwilliams1421]

I have one by mine like that and when we drive past my bird looks at my face and says why are you bothered….it just does

[@milkman100001]

what about the gledill thermal stores? they use gravity primary's to the green source

[@Blindpeoplecantdrive]

Very informative video, thanks 👍🏻 am I right in thinking from June 15th any boiler swap which has microbore incorporated into the CH system MUST be repiped with suitably sized pipework to run at the lower flow temperature, oh and then be lagged where visible

[@tomkatgastraining]

Correct

[@paulwhite5601]

Thought that for new install onto existing pipe work you would just do the best you can not rip out the 10mm and fit 15

[@Blindpeoplecantdrive]

@@tomkatgastraining I keep getting told this is incorrect. Is there any literature to show amendment to Part L to say that replacement boilers in a domestic property must be designed to work with a reduced flow temperature of 55*c? I can’t find anything that suggests this in the Conservation of fuel and power Doc L with regards to replacement boilers in an existing domestic property

[@tomkatgastraining]

@@Blindpeoplecantdrive replacement boilers is try and get them to run at 55 degrees that means resize the rads to see if they work if not try and get the customer to replace which won’t happen so replacement boilers will just be set at 70 degrees because no one cares

[@Blindpeoplecantdrive]

@@tomkatgastraining ahh I see 👍🏻 I was thinking it was a mandatory regulation written in stone, or blood haha. Thanks for the quick reply

[@viktorroswell1041]

All I can say Derek, thank god I have retired ! Saying that I will keep watching, keep going mate you ARE raising the standard!

[@tomkatgastraining]

Hope you are enjoying your retirement 👍🏻

[@ColinWatters]

Just a small correction: You don't have to finish a current project before June 2023. You only have to start workbenches then.. Quote: “The changes will not apply in relation to building work where a building notice or an initial notice has been given to, or full plans deposited with, a local authority before 15 June 2022 provided that the building work is started before 15 June 2023".

[@michaelwilliams3648]

You were meant to be designing and sizing the system for the house anyway! Just because the industry has just thrown a big boiler at a house out of laziness isn’t an excuse. You don’t get other trades just guessing and winging with parts. It might put up cost but you cant expect to wing it for ever.

[@Finglesham]

You are right. My pipes are in the wall. Microbore so little loss anyway but into the room. I have 10mm and 8mm pipes. I insulated all pipes 25 years ago like you show. I was well in advance of this crap. I have a new WB system( fitted last year but I already met most of this stuff) so I want my cylinder at 60C. This stuff must really wazz you gas people off. Think about the Chinese who are building new coal power stations. I change inhibitor every year. How else did I keep an Ideal E type CF 80,000 BTU going for 44 years? ( The thermostat packed up last year)

[@ecowarrior4355]

As you can't range rate an Ideal Logic does this mean they are not part L compliant?

[@brendanfisher2528]

Can you do a video on how to size everything to comply with these regs (radiators, boilers etc) or something we can download that we can have on site, or when we are quoting. Thanks

[@tomkatgastraining]

Coming soon

[@scottnever8732]

sorry am I right in thinking from what you have said that: Every time I have my boiler serviced the plumber has too clean my entire system regardless of when it was fitted? If that is right who is paying the extra cost? Could lead to people not getting serviced boilers

[@tomkatgastraining]

No the water quality has to be checked on every service installation or breakdown

[@acelectricalsecurity]

As I said on your previous video the building regulations are not retrospective, so it will only affect installs after that June date.

[@tomkatgastraining]

🙄

[@julianhawker7672]

I've been reading up on this and agree with all your coments Derrick. Question: I've not found an answer to. I have a number of boiler changes quoted and excepted to do this summer( On old rules) can I still carry on as planned, the years grace thing on extentions etc????? All my old mears calculators and sizing equipment is scrap now.................. Do you know of a decent sizing program or app? More new tricks for this old dog.....

[@tomkatgastraining]

I guess if you can prove you quoted the job before then you will be ok they have given to next year if the job is in progress or quoted so can’t imagine they would not do the same for boilers. They did it when we changed to condensing boilers.

[@sunthroughtheblinds]

Hytools IMI

[@stevenyates6732]

I'm confused, the gas engineer June issue 159 , says all new pipework to be insulated? Any new or fully replaced heating system to be 55c so if its old pipes or boiler replace then we do nothing?

[@markroper6188]

That’s what I don’t quite understand?

[@richardlock5839]

It’s gonna push the entire housing stock up in price which will knock on to rents which are already expensive - it will greatly affect the poor and price more and more people out of the market

[@jamesbulmer301]

If the void has insulation in or the floor structure has had mineral wool in will this cover the regulation

[@tomkatgastraining]

Nope because it says pipe work

[@b1h2u3p4]

Is balancing gate valve needs to be fitted on cyclinder flow and return or no. On indirect cyclinder

[@tomkatgastraining]

Depends on the cylinder coil size, boiler size and pipe size and finally if it’s been installed correctly so guess there is no yes or no to this question

[@adrianconway1061]

how does this affect high temp heat pumps ? are they basically a non starter now?

[@Lee-yt1de]

I'm literally just starting to go self employed, now I'm thinking what a mistake I've made. This industry is getting a joke now, imagine upgrading pipework under chipboard flooring through out the whole house

[@g7mks383]

So glad I've just retired.

[@fredjoyce4914]

Don't worry

[@cerealkiller4248]

My house has 10mm running in the dot/dab wall space. I’m currently thinking which way to go regarding my last 15 years in the industry. So much for Gas Safe streamlining works for engineers, they are creating headaches for us, not making it easier as they first stated.

[@liveloud9894]

This will only be complied with in new build situations where everything is inspected Installers who try to incorporate all this nonsense into their prices for boiler changes, upgrades and new systems in existing properties won’t get any work and to be honest who’d want it anyway I’m glad I don’t install anymore , it’s not worth doing

[@paulcopland6678]

Hi Derek understand all regs but does insulating pipes include every exposed pipe on an existing system such as pipes down walls and around skirting in a beautifully decorated living room etc !

[@tomkatgastraining]

It doesn’t include exposed pipes going to radiators

[@jockster5525]

My god ...here was me thinking we lived in a relatively modern country . ..massive price knock on effect.. job creation and more.. British government taking orders from the EU still

[@griffithsheating]

Bear in mind 55 degree flow temp translates to a 45 degree MWT which translates into a dt24 room delta which translates to a correction factor of 2.7 over normal dt50 radiator sizes. So your 1.5kw rad now only gives you 500 ish watts.

[@UrbanPlumbers]

it simply translates in rads bigger than most ASHP - but DT20 is not specified and there is nothing stopping you from running at DT10 (which most run at anyway) and desiging for MWT of 50C. I read all the regs and all the linked documents - DT20 is nowhere to be seen. Only 55 flow. So in theory you could even size for DT5 with 52.50 MWT and claim that is was sized for future heat pump. I do not think that poeople who wrote the legislation actually undestand the concept of MWT or intentioanlly left it vague?

[@griffithsheating]

@@UrbanPlumbers True. There's no need for DT20 if we are designing for low flow temp from the get go. In reality all these regs will mean to the boiler slingers is that the combi will probably eventually get a hard stop at 55 degrees in heating mode and come supplied out the box with either a weather sensor or load compensating timer and they gotta fit TRVs and suck it and see on the existing rad sizes 🤷‍♂️

[@davidbanfield1321]

@@UrbanPlumbers if installing pdhw to a cylinder by having a N/O zone valve on the heating with a max flow of 55 deg and dt of 5, what flow temp and dt do you recommend when in h/w demand?

[@UrbanPlumbers]

@@davidbanfield1321 It depends. Some boilers (Viessmann 100) do not allow you to adjust flow temp on DHW, Intergas allows you to adjust both: temp and kW, Ideal allows you nothing at all and just fires at max, so it is out of your hands. You need to set the flow to satisfy 60C at the cylinder, so depends on your piperuns, cyliner coild and size, etc. I really like Viessmann W200, as it allows for heating the cylinder to 50C only and does a legionella cycle at an interval you can programm, for example once a week. In most cases flow for DHW will be out of your hands unless you use intergas or Viessmann, With this new leglsaition all Y and S plans will no longer be possible, but I do not think that people who wrote the legisaltion realise it?

[@UrbanPlumbers]

@@griffithsheating haha - can't wait for all the numpties sticking 55flow on existing rads - although most customers will not notice for a long while, and then one day they will be thinking that their 40kW boiler is too small. This all will be sooo much fun.

[@TW-mp8zx]

I do agree that the pipework within the floors should be insulated because it is ensuring that this intended heat is delivered to the intended location for its intended design heat output.. it just makes sense..

[@2tommala]

Ditto, it will prevent people running hot water tap until they refill length of pipe with hot water to i.e. wash hands.. Also heating floor in the Summer would be a loss rather than gain.

[@Umski]

Also agree with this, although see the point he is making about the 'lost' heat going into the envelope of the building, which may be fine if it is just pipework to rads in the same room for example - for hot water every single section should be insulated so that as you say the heat is retained and delivered where it's meant to be. Gas installers (most have no engineering ability in my experience as a customer, so allowing some common sense wouldn't work) need to get their heads around this and if legislation is the only way then so be it (though most can hide their work if they choose to like shoddy builders!) - you would never see an uninsulated HVAC pipe run!

[@gasfitter78]

Very informative. One question what will be the consequence for the customer that doesn't want to comply cause it's to expensive?

[@tomkatgastraining]

Technically they don’t have a say in it because it comes under the building regs

[@gasfitter78]

@@tomkatgastraining it great that the government makes all these changes but it's down the heating engineer to educate the customer on all these changes. I called a customer about giving him a quote. All he wanted was the boiler a baxi 600 fitted thats it when I mentioned part L he said your talking to much and hung up! It could get worse for guy that want the to the right thing being under cut by the guys that only care about the money. Only my opinion.

[@tomkatgastraining]

@@gasfitter78 and a very correct opinion

[@micmac69]

So if we're back to software calculations and proof. Can anyone recommend one🤔 Years ago Barlo etc used to provide but not sure who does anymore. Also it'll only be for there radiators.

[@sunthroughtheblinds]

Hytools IMI

[@stevenyates6732]

Customers asking to change boiler, but rads are piped in both 8mm and 10mm, they don't want to change to 15mm, can it be done or not?

[@trojannunu]

Thank you . As for me I fitted my last boiler last week, not doing this no more. Last 20 years has been bad enough. Sick of this rubbish. The Government is making us their conduit for their pipe dreams.( no pun intended) None of this will translate into people (public)wanting this massive extra expense. Waste of time, money and effort. There are better ways than this. Good luck to all the good guys out there.

[@tomkatgastraining]

Good luck in what you are doing 👍🏻

[@luktrucking5057]

Hi! Is anywhere in regulations that 10mm radiator pipes have to be changed to min.15mm in old houses when you upgrade a boiler ?

[@tomkatgastraining]

No not for gas boiler replacement

[@luktrucking5057]

Thanks Derek

[@adrianoxenham362]

Can you see the customer of an existing property, wanting to add things such as TRV's or lagging etc, installed at further expense?

[@kevinw7419]

The industry would have been better served by making existing boilers of 'C' rating or lower illegal under building regulations in that we cannot repair them forcing customers into having a more efficient 'A' rated boiler thus reducing CO2 emissions that way. No proper consultation within our industry again to get the best solution to reduce CO2. Government failure again!!

[@wonderboy1459]

Why does the Goverment expect heating installers to do all the extra work for nothing.The customer won't want to pay and this will leave a legally qualified heating engineer unable to compete against an unqualified person fitting boilers.

[@clivewilliams3661]

Like any survey whether its 'free' to be able to price the job or whether its charged at the outset is a moot point as the customer pays in the long run. The survey for pricing purposes is no different in principle to that for tendering and no-one expects tenderers to charge to price a job where they have to do their own take-off, so I think that many will offer a 'free' no obligation survey to formulate a price. IMO pricing to do a survey simply won't happen, there are too many instances in the building industry where work has to be done to be able to price a job to give the quote to the client, why should plumbers/heating engineers be a special case? This scaremongering probably has the ulterior motive of getting the client to not seek competitive quotes, which in itself will push the price up.

[@stevenyates6732]

Why could the gov not get the manufactures to limit combi to 60c , some go to 80c. Rads could be changed slowley when customers cold.

[@martynlewis9020]

I want to see how BiG companies deal with this change, my next door neighbour had a boiler fitted by a very BiG company, the job was completed within 3hrs!

[@fivish]

All new homes to have BEV charging points installed! But with the escallating price of lithium and cobalt the battery car is doomed.

[@kevinw7419]

A heating flow temperature of 55c ain't going to be hot enough to heat rooms especially if the existing rads are undersized, customers are going to complain and say it was hot enough with the old boiler and I want it hot enough with my new boiler. So it will be adjusted higher by the customer or engineer to keep the customer happy! With improper policing its all rollocks!!

[@farukadam1696]

👍👌

[@suewarrington8155]

👍 Sue Warrington

[@leonbarnes1402]

didnt half of these items youve mentioned actually come into regulation back in 2005??

[@samdorken5639]

Has 10mm been specifically banned or is it just the case that the 10mm wouldn’t be able to achieve the flow required for the reduced flow temp.

[@tomkatgastraining]

It’s not been band it just can’t give you the flow rate like you said

[@samdorken5639]

@@tomkatgastraining thanks for the reply it’s greatly appreciate

[@spacefx1340]

Tescos here i come boys....

[@toughluck1966]

Hi all, I’m working on my gas portfolio atm, I was told this channel is a godsend for helping completing it but I’m struggling to see it? Any advice would be so appreciated, thanks 🙏 in advance

[@tomkatgastraining]

I guess you haven’t had a look at the channel then 🤔

[@toughluck1966]

@@tomkatgastraining wow the man himself! Hello there, not knocking your content, it’s great stuff, I just meant if there was any of your vids directly aimed at how to pass the portfolio stage or are you covering everything anyone has to know and that it’s up to us to use as we wish. Your knowledge is outstanding btw

[@tomkatgastraining]

@@toughluck1966 because every training centre dose the portfolio different you would have to sort it with your training centre. At tomkat we take pains in show our trainees what we require for portfolio and what we expect. Speak to your training centre they should give you what’s required

[@toughluck1966]

@@tomkatgastraining thanks again for the reply, I’ve watched your vids and will continue long after my portfolio. Ive done all the jobs, put my pics in, I’m struggling with writing up method statements, knowing how to or learning how to is one thing but putting words to i5 is another lol.

[@theplumber4934]

Hello... My recent gas safe inspection required me to prove that the central heating pipes in the ceiling of the lounge which is the bedroom floor are insulated! Otherwise I will receive a notice. So up come the carpets, and floorboards. Off I go in the diesel van to buy pipe insulation which is possibly from fossil fuel ( Polyethylene). All to save what? The bedroom heating up a small amount. I can't help thinking that the cost and eventual waste product will be more harmful than the heat generated under the floor, and what if the radiator in the bedroom is off? No heat in the insulated pipe. Also do pipes behind dot & dab now have to be insulated? Will they have to be 15mm to allow radiators to provide enough heat at 50 - 55 degrees flow temp? I believe this is only applicable in England ? I think the lunatics have escaped the asylum. Any good advice is welcome

[@SuperWayneyb]

🤘😎🤘

[@michaeltrimmer8899]

I thought we did away with pumped heating/gravity hot water 40 years ago

[@paulhill1665]

Customers will love the vastly increased costs, happy days for the cowboys.

[@jezlucas3878]

my concern

[@L.C.Sweeney]

There will be thousands of "plumbers" that will completely ignore these regs and still undercut those that don't.

[@James-P96]

I've not had a boiler inspection/service in all 5 year I've lived in my house, says on the front to be serviced every year but no info when I moved in so if there's ever any problem my cowboy hat comes out but the thing is there's never been any problem with it other than trying to figure out how to use it when first moving in 🤣, monoxide alarm sits in the same cupboard, since all the experts are here I get poor maintenance can cause issues but what are the issues to look for?

[@James-P96]

As from legislation point of view nothings ever happened been said and seems like no one cares about it 🤷‍♂️

[@7dayplumbingservices195]

Brillant video thanks . Does it mean B*+t online quotes are not vailable then ?? ....

[@pookievision]

So implementing regs so that installers show proof that they've done the job properly....😂 bout time I say, be some money boost to the industry!! Alot more changes to come, British Gas pushing to be the leading company for the contract to switch from gas to hydrogen!! Be like town gas switch but not as substabtial but still some job ey! 👍👏

[@douglas4487]

Oh no, no more 10mm how will I sleep at night?

[@accesszero4803]

Lads arnt goin to all this crap if its a combi swap. I agree with a lot of it ,but it wont happen because of company's under cutting each other and customers armt aware of the changes

[@markzawada5927]

Final nail in the coffin for me , it’s all become too much hassle , will stick to bathrooms only .

[@lord3296]

All this sounds wonderful. However who will police this. An installer puts a price in with the knowledge of this. Next install doesnt and is way cheaper.installer doing the right thing doesnt get the work. How long til the said installer is out of work or just doesnt do it.

[@Whats-a-Tekker]

Lots of up-skilling required!