Chaos in Meereen: The Harpy’s Plot & the False Ghiscari Legacy | ASOIAF Analysis

[@j.m.2245]

Mereen is not a problem to be solved, it is the heart and soul of the series, no less compelling than Arya in the Riverlands, Tyrion in King's Landing, or Jon on the Wall. Violence flows downhill and inevitably has consequences for the most vulnerable in society, no matter how high-minded its origins may seem. Whether it is the "game of thrones" or "planting trees" to make a false peace with slavers, the violence flows. I can't wait to see Volantis in Winds, the Widow on the Waterfront needs her due.

[@CompanyOfTheCat]

"I can't wait to see Volantis in Winds, the Widow on the Waterfront needs her due." I am SO ready for both Volantis and the Battle of Fire in the next book!

[@ktk44man]

I totally agree, as cool as it would be for daenarys to go west, what happens in the east is just as valuable narratively as westeros. Hate it when people don't like essos, so much of it is so cool

[@CompanyOfTheCat]

@@ktk44man I am a firm believer that Daenerys after the whole Others debacle not only will, survive, but she will actually return to Essos and leave Westeros behind.

[@notdeadjustyet8136]

The longer I think of the alien world of Slavers Bay the more I see it as a mental challenge for both the characters & the readers. It speaks of the lasting ancient prejudices & the (western) xenophobia, so deeply buried in our subconscious, even when we rationally don't want it, just like Dany & Selmy in Dance.

[@CompanyOfTheCat]

" It speaks of the lasting ancient prejudices & the (western) xenophobia, so deeply buried in our subconscious, even when we rationally don't want it, just like Dany & Selmy in Dance." This is not exactly accurate though, neither in our world nor in this case in the book. I think people not liking the storyline is rooted partially in a modern Western-centric mindset (we care about Westeros more, who cares about the East, f*ck these chapters), and Barristan, and occasionally Dany, think of the Ghiscari as having weird customs, but so do other Essosi who are not Ghiscari. For centuries (up until the fall of the Byzantine Empire in 1453) the East was often considered far more advanced and wealthy than the West. Considering that George R.R. Martin has mentioned how the region and lifestyle are inspired by the Old World, particularly the Eastern Mediterranean and Middle Eastern cultures, it’s not accurate to say "It speaks of the lasting ancient prejudices & the (western) xenophobia". This is reflected in the novels as well. Essos is far richer than Westeros, far more politically advanced, and considered more culturally sophisticated, Essosi themselves throw digs at Westerosi. Historically, Westeros has been repeatedly conquered by invasions from Essos, and never the other way around. To say that 'the West = civilized and the East = Savages' doesn't hold up here. With the Dothraki could be argued that it is the case, but here not as much. Also, Daenerys is not truly Westerosi. She is of Valyrian descent, like many people from the Free Cities and Slaver’s Bay. She grew up in Essos and, at fourteen, assimilated into an even more Eastern culture than the Ghiscari, eventually coming to appreciate it. What we actually have is a woman of Essosi heritage, raised in Essos, conquering other Essosi with the support of a majority of non-Westerosi followers.

[@marblubb7289]

The most interesting thing about the Ghiscari, to me at least, will always be how they resisted the Valyrians seemingly without any magic of their own. There is of course the chance that the early "bronze age", for lack of a better word, dragons of the Valyrians were smaller than the later ones. In the same way that chariot horses were smaller than later cavalry ones. But this does not take away from the fact that the Ghiscari fought several wars against flying flamethrowers while being normal humans with pre-iron weapons.

[@CompanyOfTheCat]

Key Word: Seemingly. I’m thinking of a bonus video about the Ghiscari because there are some hints that they might have been dabbling in magic as well.

[@Sunspear7]

Marwyn cites Gorghan of Ghis regarding prophecy and I took that to mean the Ghiscari are very familiar with that magic. There seems to be a link between red hair and precognition, as far as I recall only the First Men and Ghiscari have red hair. The Ghiscari might have set up Gorgai and Zamettar to get their hands on wyverns to make their own dragons, which would imply they're familiar with blood magic.

[@marblubb7289]

@@Sunspear7 Divination seems to be the most widely practiced form of magic. The Old Gods have greendreams, R'hllor has looking into the flames, Valyrians had their dragon dreams or glass candles, and i think even the FotS had dreams attributed to the Crone. So Ghiscari having some form of divination makes a lot of sense. As for blood magic, i feel like plain of colonies or trading outposts make more sense for Gorgai and Zamettar. The Ghiscari eat everything except humans or dragons, though they probably would eat those too if they could get their hands on a dragon or eat humans without risk of prions disease. So having outposts on Sothoryos to hunt for exotic meat and ship it back home sounds like something they woul do. Furthermore, if there was even rumours that the Ghiscari used to practice blood magic then we surely would have heard of it by now. It's the perfect way to further smear those "disgusting slavers", and yet the World book didn't mention it.

[@marblubb7289]

@@CompanyOfTheCat On a somewhat related note. Have you ever looked into the idea that necromancy might be a purely human magic? All necromancers that we hear of have been human. And the CotF had to create the Others in order to get their wight army. Surely a race of powerful magic users that could sink landmasses would have just raised the dead by themselves if they were able to.

[@Sunspear7]

@@marblubb7289 They are disgusting slavers

[@OfAshesPhoenix]

It's true that this storyline is mad underappreciated. We have everything! Schemes, plots, words behind words, and so much at stake... Every time people say that the Meereenese are one dimensional cartoon villains I'm sighting real hard. Hizdahr and Galazza both are such layered villains. Hizdahr for example representing the violence of the status quo that is nicely concealed beneath the facade of respect to authority and tradition... And if Galazza indeed is the Harpy - which I believe there is a 99% chance to be the case - the confrontation between her and Dany will be delicious. Especially because this is the second older woman in her life that had betrayed her. And I hope that there's more at stake for Skahaz and that he is genuinely devoted to ending slavery as opposed to just being a self-serving douche. And Steven mentioned 🙏 I wasn't going to drink today but man I'm missing him like a mf

[@CompanyOfTheCat]

She has to be the Harpy. It fits too well thematically, in terms of writing, and for the characters involved. It would be a lost opportunity and a poor red herring if the explanation doesn't work. As for why many readers don't like it, I think it's a mix of things. Some people don't enjoy Dany's storyline or her character. The story is also filled with events, and a lot of key information often gets overlooked in discussions. I rarely hear more than 2-3 people even mention the Qartheen blockade. Also, many readers struggle with remembering names. I’ve noticed this issue mostly in English-speaking communities, as the names aren’t necessarily difficult or similar for everyone. The story itself can often read like a history book, very grey, complicated, and not as shiny or glamorous as people might expect from a book of this nature. These are exactly the reasons why you and I love this part of the story, and why many others enjoy it as well, but many might find politics of this depth boring (even when people say they like the politics of ASOIAF, they mostly focus on court politics). Steven was incredible, and I often miss his insights, especially when reading his essays. He did excellent work here, and I believe he deserved to be mentioned.

[@OfAshesPhoenix]

@@CompanyOfTheCat This arc also serves its purpose - showing that ruling is HARD BUSINESS. Which is why it exhaust me to constantly see how bad of a ruler Dany is - no, she is a ruler who faces realistic and, in this particular context, extremely difficult obstacles. We talk about uprooting a thousand years old exploitative institution on which the economy of the entire continent rests; we speak of a domestic t3rr0r1st organization slaughtering people; we speak of a plague and war and so many other things. Of course she struggles! She's never even had a maester and is fifteen years old. If she was living in Westeros, she would still be ruled by regents. But if you point this out you're accused of 'excusing her' 🤡

[@CompanyOfTheCat]

@@OfAshesPhoenix That being said, I did excuse her for punishing the slavers. The punishment was consistent with the justice system of that era and region. But honestly, what even is a 'wrong slaver'? Even if the theory about punishing the 'wrong slavers' were true (which it isn't, as several ADWD quotes confirm they were the heads of the most prominent houses), what does a 'wrong slaver' even mean? They may not have agreed with the crucifixions, but they were fine with everything else, so does that make them 'wrong'? The only true innocents here are the children, and again and again, she has gone out of her way to protect them.

[@OfAshesPhoenix]

​@@CompanyOfTheCat If they were truly opposed, they would have made that opposition clear enough for the others to not proceed with this act. Burning and harvesting everything would've been a warning enough, but they needed to additionally taunt her and her people. None of them are innocent and they should be glad she didn't go harder on them.

[@sinthoras1917]

@@CompanyOfTheCat Dany went way too soft. She should have completely expropriated them and used their wealth to help get Meereen off its starting problems, that also would have removed basically all resources the harpy had at its disposal.

[@trisarathops]

"...just because something is part of a culture doesn't mean it deserves protection. Respecting a culture doesn't mean accepting every brutal and oppressive practice within it." If people would understand that we could get rid of so many harmful "traditions" that are "part of our culture". If a culture is made up entirely of oppressive, dehumanising practices, maybe it should reconsider it's values and those they presume to hold others to.

[@nont18411]

A very same message can be seen from the movie Godzilla Minus One

[@escapefromdubai187]

At the end of the day, slaver's bay and Westeros literally have almost the same culture. Slaves/surfs, masters/lords, overseerers/stewards, fighting pits/tourneys and jousts. Even Tyrion, someone disillusioned with both his own culture and slaver's bay, makes this observation when he's enslaved. Dany's ultimate goal is to change management in Westeros not "free" anyone. She doesn't have an alternative, she just reacts out of cultural discomfort.

[@Billpro25]

That's why cultures with such oppressive, dehumanizing practices resort to poetry and some sort of 'universal truth' rhetoric about the inherent cruelty of nature to excuse themselves - till they themselves become victimised of course (rare, but can happen), then the plead for the mercy they would've never given their own victims begins, often falling to deaf ears. Funny how that works.

[@eric2500]

@@nont18411 or most Godzilla movies. "History shows again and again how Nature points out the folly of Men....Godzilla!" Blue Oyster Cult...

[@ninacaracol]

I love your analysis i want to go back and reread dany's chapters in adwd but i remember liking them a lot

[@niofalpha]

Amazing video. The Meereen arc is one of the most underrated in ADWD and the discourse around it reflects how low the reading comprehension is in the wider community. The damage that “Meereeneese Knot” and bro’s other “essays” have done to the fandom can not be stated enough.

[@CompanyOfTheCat]

I am gonna piggyback of Steven again like I did in the video, but this is the best thing anyone could say: "So in sum, here is my argument: Dany's crusade in Slaver's Bay is not an Iraq metaphor or a white colonialist suppression of a native and authentic Ghiscari culture. *Indeed, the fact that A Storm of Swords was written in the late 1990s, well in advance of the Iraq War, would seem to disqualify that particular analogy.* Rather, the correct historical parallel is the American Civil War (especially Grant's Mississippi River Valley campaign and Sherman's March to the sea) and Reconstruction. And this change in historical parallels has a powerful influence on the political lessons we should draw from Dany's tenure as Breaker of Chains and Queen of Meereen." - A Laboratory of Politics Part VI By StevenAttewell

[@fayperce]

The Knot guy, along with the Order of the Green Hand are the real villains of asoiaf.

[@DreamWalker-113]

facts only

[@mishasa2751]

​@@faypercewho's that? Just curious

[@fayperce]

Adam Feldman. He wrote the Meereen essays back in 2013.

[@EmaAgafitei]

Very insightful video, as always, you became my favourite ASOIAF channel.I was always fascinated by the Merinese knot and the culture of the pre-Valyrian Ghys, reminds me a bit of Sumerians, Akkadians and Assyrians. The zigurate like pyramids give away George's inspiration. Had I been a better talker I'd proceed to write a series about ASOIAF Culture and Anthropology. The Fall of Ghys sounds like the Bronze Age colapse to me. Valyrians are the see people, I like to believe Valurians were firstly see farers and herders, or some migrating peacefull people. Only after some kind of disaster they got their first possesion, undertook some fiery religion and came back and ruined Ghys, Andalus and other civilisations. Once a people gets the taste of power it forgets they were once in the position of those they opressed. Hizdahr seems like a mildly annoying and mildly dangerous birocrat, ya, he has benefits of the Harpy's terror. The thing is Hizdar is not such a smooth operator, we all figured him out. The Green Grace for the other matter, she is a side to behold, gives off Morgaine Le Fey vibes.

[@JsHolgersson]

Always a sweet Saturday Treat when you post your fantastic videos Cat! 😊 Keep up the good work! Much love 💙🔥🐈‍⬛

[@CompanyOfTheCat]

Thank you so much!! And have a great weekend💞

[@gerrys374]

I have said it before I will say it again, I Love your analysis videos so much! Excellent work as always, especially for a subject not only controversial in the fandom but also complicated by nature.

[@TheDragonqueenistheslaye-zz5dp]

One aspect I want to comment is the name of the slavers and its meaning. The masters in Astapor are "Good". And well, they are the complete opposite of "good". They are iteraly the worst monsters in the series. Then we have the Wise masters om Yunkai. And somethong tells me that they are again the opposite of their name. They are unwise. So finaly we have the Great masters in Meereen. And here we have the actual ipinion of the author not just for the Meereen but for the slavery in the books. The Great masters are the exactly opposite of great. They are not nesseseraly evil like the good masters and they are not nesseseraly dumb but still they are absolutely pathetic. As slavery itself. And this is beyond the morality. It is about their way of life. You can replase virtualy the slaves with robots so you don't have problems with morality anymore. But the masters still will be pathetic. It is not a coincidence that when Dany took the city and gathered the masters she thought that they look miserable, kind of deformed while the children look normal. That's because their pathetic way of life is literaly deforming their bodies. Like an ilness. This is also one of the reasons I think why many people have troubles to enjoy very much this plotline. Because the masters are by default pathetic so the only reason to look forward that plotline is Daenerys. In comparison Baelish is antagonist but I wouldn't call him pathetic and that's why he himself is able to produce interest to himself. You can even find people which will tell you that he is their favourite chracter. Something that will never happen to any of the masters.

[@CompanyOfTheCat]

Yeah, I do agree that the slavers are crafted that way on purpose, that being said, this applies to them as a whole. Individual characters like Galazza and even Hizdahr are actually great characters for the plot they are in and not as one-dimensional as many people claim the slavers are. The bad guys in the North, like Ramsay, are not any less 'cartoonish' than the slavers. As I mentioned in another comment, I think people's dislike for this subplot comes from a mix of things. Some people don't enjoy Dany's storyline as a whole or her character. The story is also filled with events, and a lot of key information often gets overlooked in discussions. Additionally, many readers struggle with remembering the Ghiscari names and the areas. I've noticed this issue mainly in English-speaking communities, as the names aren't necessarily difficult or similar for everyone. The story itself is more grounded and not as shiny or glamorous as people might expect from a book of this nature. I love this part of the story, and many others enjoy it as well, but some might find politics of this nature boring. More often than not, when people say they like the politics of ASOIAF, they mostly focus on court politics and hyperfocus on the events in the capital. I partly blame the TV show for this, as fans tend to care only about the storylines the series focused on and the way they were portrayed.

[@Ilargizuri]

Great Video as always. I do wonder, Daenerys saves the Dwarves in the Pit from the Lion ... is that a smart foreshadowing for Tyrion when he comes back to Westeros? Westeros is the Pit, the Dwarves are Tyrion and Penny (quite Literally as the REader knows) and the Lions are stand-ins for the Lannisters. The question would be, if this Scenario is about Tyrion and his return to Westeros under Daenerys' Protection (I mean the Pits are under Daenerys literally in this Scene) how could we read this Chasing of a Dog? Truth be told, I think it is about the unresolved Problems between the Stark and the Lannisters. Penny is probably a Stand-In in this Foreshadowing for Sansa Stark, who like Penny has a Brother who died because of his Family, the Lannisters. Sansa doesn't want to be married to Tyrion, and Tyrion does want Sansa for her Claim to Winterfell, so Tyrion may fight for his Marriage to be acknowledged to give Daenerys the North and the North and his Wolves will most likely chase him away. As far as I remember the Lions are not mentioned anymore, but I think they died when Drogon landed in the Pit. Tyrion will also be in a Shave Pate Position when he returns to Westeros because some People will want to question him about the Death of his Father and Shae and that could end poorly for him.

[@CompanyOfTheCat]

Ooooh, that's great foreshadowing for Tyrion! I need to think about it and get back to you!

[@Pentagathusosaurus]

I think the reason people don't like the Mereneese plotline is just because we have so many POVs in this series, and since most of them are in Westeros it feels like that's where the story revolves (and tbf I'm pretty sure it is meant to be the centre of the story). Personally I found Dany's chapters in GoT to be very dull but that's because she had little agency of her own and the Dothraki are frankly just boring. The Merenese chapters I did enjoy, and I'm looking forward to the battle of fire for sure, but I was still more invested in the chapters set in Westeros.

[@CompanyOfTheCat]

This along with the sheer amount of people and events turns people off, but I also feel that literary-wise the surrounding politics are way more interesting than court politics (that right now involve only side characters). I know all three plotlines get slunder, but the truth is Dorne, Meereen, and Iron Islands, are much more interesting and important than many readers give them and they are carrying the story. Personally, somewhere in the middle of ASOS, I got bored with KL and the court. Even in the Riverlands Brienne is carrying the story on her back, even though many people call her chapters side quests.

[@Pentagathusosaurus]

@@CompanyOfTheCat Brianne's chapters are easily my favourite chapters of the whole story so far. I don't even care if they don't serve the main plot much, I just like em.

[@Sunspear7]

I think Dany's conquest of Mereen is supposed to parallel the Targaryens' conquest of Westeros. The graces are the Faith, Hizdhar is like a Hightower. The Green Grace can either egg on or discourage attacks from the Sons, who might be a coalition of groups instead of a top down organization like the ones who rebelled against Aenys and Maegor.

[@three-eyedmonkey7344]

Thanks for the great content. Good analysis, you have a good eye for the story, and a very cool accent.

[@CompanyOfTheCat]

Thank, glad you liked it and the accent!!

[@mihaiionita5648]

The accent gives the whole video a feeling of listening to a story told to you in a nice Greek taverna on a cliff overlooking the Aegean Sea. I half expect to hear a plate of food shattering at the end.

[@KaiHung-wv3ul]

I've always believed the Green Grace to be the Harpy, either that or that there just isn't one, as Dany's suspects.

[@iamkrohn]

Danreys should have John Browned Mereen

[@iamkrohn]

I just realized you may not get that reference en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Brown_(abolitionist)

[@Ilargizuri]

@@iamkrohn Wasn't Brown sentenced to death? He organized and lead the Slave revolt during 1859 and in the End was captured and ... shot? Or was he Hanged? I have to read your Link to refresh my Memory.

[@sinthoras1917]

​@@Ilargizurihe was hanged, yes. Though his soul kept marching on with the end of slavery just a few years later

[@Ilargizuri]

@@sinthoras1917 Yes I read the Wikipedia article you linked. It was so long ago that I heard of John Brown I needed a reminder. I hope you don't mind that I would prefer Daenerys would not die in her attempt (she isn't successful yet, so atm it is an Attempt) to abolish Slavery and leave Essos for Westeros. Because that's how I understood your Comment, I mean as a non-native-Speaker there is always a possibility that I don't get a Comment in English in the Right Way, because I don't have the background to understand it right. In my School, I learned about John Brown during a Lesson in History when we learned about Historical People who fought for what was right against the Majority or a bigger Force and died for this Cause. John Brown was mentioned there together with Sophie Scholl a Member of the White Rose who fought against the Nazis.

[@KaiHung-wv3ul]

His soul is marching on!

[@laurelsilberman5705]

My cat was very confused by the bird sounds coming out of my phone when you read direct quotes. 😂❤ Another incredible video essay! You really know how to break it down. I seriously love your content. It’s extremely high-quality analysis and production-and you talk fast, a personal preference, but a preference nonetheless. 😊keep it up! Can’t wait to see what you come up with next!! ✨👌👍✨

[@CompanyOfTheCat]

Hahahaha cute baby😂 Glad you like the content, and thank you so much for watching💞

[@taco4242]

Great vid. It's always fun to untie the Meereenese Knot.

[@mlgesus8362]

You're my favourite KZbin Channel thank you for new content

[@CompanyOfTheCat]

Thanks, glad you like the content ⸜(｡˃ ᵕ ˂ )⸝♡

[@fitz7231]

This is an excellent video. Really glad I discovered you this week!

[@anthonywarren9885]

It's symbolism. The Ghiscari don't exist anymore culturally and ethnically. It's just a way of displaying their disdain of Danaerys.

[@LlamaDePerusalem]

Man, i thought that the similarities in accent between greek and peninsular castillian were just a myth, nice video.

[@CompanyOfTheCat]

Yyyup, the flow is quite similar, at least in English idk about in other languages. If you talk about greek greek, also have pretty similar tonality and sounds. Glad you liked the video!

[@alorescott]

We need to dig in that Galazza More. Sneaky sneaky

[@panosbaratheon6385]

Nice breakdown of the knot. You did work a lot. Όταν πετάς ελληνικά στο βίντεο με κερδίζεις . 😂😂

[@aegorbittersteel2154]

Im late but woooooo new video!!!!!!!

[@sectoralheterochromia]

Glad to see this !

[@TheStoneTargaryen]

Loved this video! :)

[@billberndtson]

Good morning! :D Delighted to see you in my subs!

[@anitareasontobelieve378]

Is it just me or does the Harpy statues look like the Valeryan sphinx pair outside the citidel?. They kinda do...

[@joseysomemore]

❤

[@michaelsilver253]

Love your analysis and the video in general but you should consider getting a better mic. The distortion of the mic exacerbates your accent and makes it hard to understand the audio at times (either one alone wouldn't be a problem) and the visual stuff isn't compelling enough to "turn on CCs" and keep your eyes on the video. Which is fine, there are a million great KZbin channels that don't focus on the visuals, but in that case the audio really shouldn't require the audience to strain to understand the narration. Seriously though 1000% kept it up! Your videos are dope!!

[@CompanyOfTheCat]

You are lucky, because I have ordered a new mic huhu

[@mrloadinggame]

I love this video and I love how the mereenese names roll out of your mouth.

[@LolcowAdmirer]

Your voice needs slowing around 10-15%. Love your content

[@DukeDukeGo]

Did your Discord get hacked? It was posting phishing links in the INC server a few days ago

[@CompanyOfTheCat]

Yeah, dammit, in the end I just deleted it, I will make another one at some point.

[@sinthoras1917]

It seems like my comments get deleted by KZbin

[@sinthoras1917]

I guess I used scary words like rëvölütïön or something

[@CompanyOfTheCat]

Hahahahaha probably, because yes, this is your first comment I see here.

[@sinthoras1917]

@@CompanyOfTheCat I hate KZbin. I typed a long message, just to have it deleted

[@sinthoras1917]

​@@CompanyOfTheCatoh, and great video, clear sighted analysis. That was the start of my deleted comments

[@CompanyOfTheCat]

Aw, thanks! And I'm sorry about your comment. It's the worst when that happens, and I truly don’t understand why they don’t at least let me see it to decide if it's appropriate.

[@AWildWightAppeared]

awesome!

[@eric2500]

DARIO? never Dario. He's a fighter and a lover, but not a schemer. He is as the expression goes, balls to the wall!

[@NexLuTho]

Is it just me or is the accent thicker than usual?? 😅 its my 1st time needing subtitles on Campany of the cat Vid

[@CompanyOfTheCat]

Maybe? Idk😂

[@THETRILOBITE]

I love me some shavepate

[@alex52043]

The nobles of Meereen did not see justice. She asked them to name the perpetrators. Why would they name the real perpetrators, rather than any moderates who would be willing to work with her? She almost certainly executed every Meereenese noble who was against crucifying children.

[@CompanyOfTheCat]

That is contradicted by ADWD. The Meereenese themselves described the current slaving Elite as being houses of old women and we saw children seeking council because Daenerys crucified or exiled the male heads of houses. Except if we accept that only women and children were pro-crucifixions for some reason, and all the heads of the most prominent *slaver* families who were men were against it, this is just false info that is circulating around a lot without proof. Also, I am sorry, but there is no "correct" slaver in the case. There is no way for some reason the majority of the richest and powerful were against it and the others were not, but for some reason, they went with it. "You have no lack of enemies, Your Grace. You can see their pyramids from your terrace. Zhak, Hazkar, Ghazeen, Merreq, Loraq, all the old slaving families. Pahl. Pahl, most of all. A house of women now. Bitter old women with a taste for blood. Women do not forget. Women do not forgive."

[@alex52043]

@@CompanyOfTheCat She conducted no investigation. She asked the very people responsible, people who she had just conquered to put forward sacrifices for her to punish. There is no world in which what she did was just or wise, she killed who the Meereenese told her to kill.

[@CompanyOfTheCat]

@@alex52043 And now all the men and heads of houses vanished, all of them, without anyone mentioning anything, and they also continue to be mad, because only old women and kids are left? This sounds flimsy because it's contradicted by the next book. The Meereenese all of them were scared sorry for the word shitless when Dany arrived with dragons and we have to believe that they had this whole elaborate plan in place but no others that could help them. Plus, and they themselves in Tyrion's chapters don't say any to support this when they say how straight up lie about Dany about the whole smearing campaign. The whole of Dance contradicts this "theory".

[@alex52043]

@@CompanyOfTheCat If only old women and kids are left then where did the sons of the harpy come from? And why would they brag about their success when it would lead to her looking for the actual crucifiers? You aren't forming conclusions based on the evidence, you're looking for evidence to support Dany. She really just screwed up here.

[@CompanyOfTheCat]

​@@alex52043 The real screw-up was that she didn't execute all of them, or at least take their entire wealth. I am sorry but "good slave masters" or some were innocent is not a thing, they were slave owners and sellers, point blank. If the people in multiple POVs say that the heads now mostly consisted of old women, we understand that the heads of houses, meaning older men, were executed as they should. We see mostly younger boys and girls, some second sons that are not as old, like Hizdahr, and women or family members that were not heads. The sons of the harpy are probably younger men and boys considering they corner and kill even unsullied. "Enough, Belwas," Dany called. "Release him." To the boy she said, "Treasure that tokar, for it saved your life. You are only a boy, so we will forget what happened here. You should do the same." But as he left the boy looked back over his shoulder, and when she saw his eyes Dany thought, The Harpy has another Son. Most likely the sons are younger men if not boys similar ages to the unsullied that are teens (14-20) the majority of them. Daenerys executed the older men and heads of houses and some of them were exiled, we are told that in Tyrion's POVs. Also, we have seen how the slave masters operate do we really believe that all the sons are highborn and they don't hire others to do their dirty jobs? Doubt, hard doubt.

[@tarvoc746]

The Slavers' Bay cities having five slaves for every free man is one of the sillier aspects of GRRM's writing imo. For comparison: Only about 30% of the inhabitants of the Roman Empire were slaves, and even a good bit less in the US South - where the slavers had guns, mind you. No slavers' society I'm aware of ever had more than 30% slaves, because anything more would likely make the situation uncontrollable for the slavers.

[@KaiHung-wv3ul]

Sparta, but they had a very...unique situation. Edit: Also, it's noteworthy that the Romans, the American South, and Sparta(as well as others like the Boers) were all warrior societies, in large part, I suspect, due to needing to keep their enslaved populations subjugated.

[@tarvoc746]

@@KaiHung-wv3ul Yeah, and afaik none of them employed slaves in their armies. At the very least not as the backbone of their armies.

[@KaiHung-wv3ul]

@@tarvoc746 Yeah, the closest to Slavers' Bay is probably the Medieval Islamic World, which did have such customs, but 1) the slave soldiers were treated much better than regular slaves, 2) the percentage of slaves were also lower.

[@tarvoc746]

@@KaiHung-wv3ul Oh yeah, I believe slave soldiers were a thing in the Ottoman Empire, right? Unfree warriors "owned" by their liege lord were also a thing in Europe during the migration period and early middle ages. They weren't chattle slaves though, they were only few and highly trained, they normally led their lord's armies as generals, and they were often wealthier than most free men. In fact, they were the class that later became knights and barons - hence the etymological connection between "knight" and the German word "Knecht", serf.

[@KaiHung-wv3ul]

@@tarvoc746 Yep, the Janissaries, but it was also present in other Medieval Islamic Empires, but there they were called Mamluks, and sometimes they even became rulers themselves, as in Egypt and India.

[@LordCamelNut]

Slow it down. With your accent it sounds way to fast. For normal English

[@alisonfecteau2315]

Why the need to talk soooooo friggin fast?? It's either impossible to understand or just annoying to try. Sucks, because it sounds interesting. 😕

[@LolcowAdmirer]

Click the cog for settings on the video and change the speed down