Chapter 1: Two pastors react to Tim Alberta's book "The Kingdom, the Power, and the Glory"

[@don66hotrod94]

I am so fortunate. I have no idea where my Pastor stands politically. And that is how it should be.

[@jgriggs4118]

Not necessarily a great thing….justice should always be the compass and guide

[@ella5319]

I am reading Tim Alberta's book, and it's so true and depressing too. I go back thirty years ago sitting in my car dating my lunch listening to Christian Talk Radio, because Clinton had just been elected the commentator was what we call here in the South having a " hissy fit", saying churches will be closed, pastor's arrested for preaching the Gospel, and Bibles banned. I nearly spit my Dr. Pepper out of my mouth, and at that moment I knew right then the church, and possibly the country was headed in the wrong direction.

[@marklar2012]

All I see is the same kind of religion that would crucify Jesus as did jewish nationalistic religion over Barabas. The true church of God was always minority.

[@martin9410]

As a retired pastor myself, I really have enjoyed all these episodes. But sticking to the heart of the Biblical text, I might just take exception to the "Give me Barabbas," example. Where the analogy breaks down is that the ancient Jews on that fateful day weren't looking for a man to lead them, rather, they were resisting the Messiah's Sonship, rejecting Jesus. Most that day would have had nothing more to do with Barabbas after his release. It's just their hatred for Jesus was so real and so convicting during that moment (as probably even more so energized by their religious leaders), they would have chosen anyone other than Jesus. Aside from that analogy, over all it was another excellent episode. The bottomline is that the church has separated from Christ and married Trump. Their desire to nationalize this nation into their own image, has caused them to lessen their hold on the purity of God's kingdom and His country. Now they can only see God's kingdom in their review mirror while rushing forward to praise their new Lord and extoll all of his demeaning practices. They never gave one thought to how this might affect the gospel message to a dying world. They never considered or perhaps even wondered as to why Jesus and His disciples didn't get vocal about secular politics when Caesar Tiberius was in power. They never were curious as to why the Apostle Peter said to "honor the king" during the reign of Nero...a king who launched a vicious attack against Christians. But Biden a far less serious threat to their personal safety, they publicly roast on a grill. I think as many Christians have pursued their evil political spouse, they have become corrupted. Instead of practicing mercy, kindness and grace toward their supposed enemy, they now (in the likeness of their new spouse), spew out hate and division, chalking up previous virtues to a misguided past. Now, at least in this part of the world, Christians are not persecuted for the Gospel or for exhibiting the image of Christ, but rather, for emulating the image of their new amoral spouse. Christians in the United States are seen as hypocritical, unloving, uncaring and devoid of commonsense. And sadly, this view, for the most part, is accurate. We have lost our way, our spiritual discernment and our love for Jesus! The old days of WWJD (What Would Jesus Do) are behind us. We no longer care to entertain those thoughts. Our new spouse wouldn't approve.

[@hal7ter]

''The bottomline is that the church has separated from Christ and married Trump.'' Not any church I've been going to!

[@laklinlee]

I’ve enjoyed these episodes. I haven’t finished Tim’s book but I’ve listened to as many interviews with him that I can find. You brought up Robert Jeffress. I have lots to say about him. You gave him way too much grace. I was Southern Baptist from the cradle up as is my family. Now there is Trump and I do not have a family. Robert Jeffress played a huge roll. He doesn’t just preach on Sunday. He has a radio show and was or maybe still is a Fox News commentator. Through his radio show, he preached the MAGA message. My mother and brother were devoted listeners. You’re either for Trump or you are the devil. I’ve never supported Trump. My mother told me that I was never saved and I was evil. She is 80 years. I don’t think I’ll speak to her again before she dies. How do Christians get to this point? Politics over your own child.

[@pattilunsford492]

You should listen to Frank Schaefer. And how his father and him back, then penetrated governments around the world for power and money. It’s very interesting. As a child, he was in the White House of.

[@robertrowland5813]

Despite your mother's assertion about you, may I recommend and encourage you to rethink your statement never to speak with her again. Once she dies, it's too late to make amends; to tell her that you love her despite how she may feel, etc. My 55 year old daughter died on October 31, 2023 suddenly. My beloved wife died back in 2007 at the age of 60. Life is short. Don't make a decision to do something that you may regret for the rest of your life. God be with you. Take care.

[@laklinlee]

My condolences on your losses. You’re right that life is short. Love is all that truly matters. Please don’t assume I refuse to speak to my mother. Whether I speak to my mother again is up to her. She has banished me in the way that MAGA will do to any family member not part of the cult. She pronounced me evil and never saved and refuses all contact. My brother has said to fall in line if I want to be reconciled. Be MAGA or be alone. How do I fight against irrationality? I’ve spent four years trying to truly understand what has happened to my family. There are many answers yet no real answer.

[@robertrowland5813]

@@laklinlee Appreciate and thank you for your reply and condolences. May the peace which passes all understanding bless your heart and mind through the Lord and Savior.

[@shesh4896]

⁠@@laklinleeI’m so sorry for what you have gone through. I hope that families can see that family should transcend politics. But Trump demands absolute loyalty and he is an expert at dividing to obtain what he wants. Many Christians have chosen the power of evil over the teachings of Jesus. They are blind.

[@debsnyder8437]

Great podcast. Your analogy of Barrabas has really got the cogs in my brain turning. This was a very profound and thought provoking message. It’s spurred me on to study my Bible more on the verses you used. Thank-you.

[@theshaw925]

You guys make too much sense for people in this country. Most people want to be told what to do. They cannot think for themselves. Keep up the good work.

[@manuelruiz9189]

That is what Roger Ailes, the creator of Fox News, expressed when he declared that: "Americans are lazy, they want to be told what to think."

[@RobHarrison-g9b]

Thank you for this! Very insightful! We have seen analogous issues in our small town church in the past. It helps explain what we have gone through! Plus for these times, we have often looked on from here in Canada, and wondered what was going on south of the border? Great thoughts, wisdom and insights!

[@rckinvesting1862]

This series is fantastic! Thanks Pat 😊

[@polly_sigh]

I really appreciate these conversations about Tim's excellent book from two pastors who certainly exemplify being God's servants. I just finished reading the book, and the discussion you are having really helps to embed all the information in the book and contextualize it in a way that may be helpful when interacting with a friend, relative or fellow church member who has unfortunately succumbed to the worship of political and cultural power and attempting to exert that power in the form of Christian Nationalism. I grew up in a Missouri Synod Lutheran church, the most conservative sect in the Lutheran church, but it has been shocking to see how much has changed since my childhood (I'm 66). I lived in Beaufort, SC years ago and went for the first time to an Evangelical Lutheran church because that was the ONLY Lutheran church in that island town at the time. What was interesting was while my church, under a young minister, had pretty much jettisoned all the liturgy and liturgical music in order to attract people who weren't necessarily Christians who went to the mainstream Protestant churches, the one in Beaufort, while probably being accused of more "liberal" bias, was very faithful to and respectful of the church liturgy. I was very disappointed when I returned to my NC hometown church to find that completely gone. (Under pressure from older members, he finally put in a liturgical service once a month). And I think that matters. I think the ritual of church liturgy is to reinforce the tenets of Christianity and to remind and refresh for church members key biblical passages that, when repeated or sung, offer a real foundation of understanding that is collectively shared by the congregation. But in my hometown church currently, while my pastor certainly in his sermons stays away from politics and emphasizes studying and learning from the Bible, as a reserve chaplain for the US Air Force, he will wear his uniform on certain Sundays such as Memorial Day or Veterans Day. Many of the congregants have also been heard to say from time to time, they assume everyone in our church is a Republican, as if how could you not be if you're a Christian? But I am hoping Tim's book hits a real nerve and maybe there are Republicans out there who will read his book, even if they have to do it surreptitiously. But looking forward to all your coming discussions. You are both doing a great service to highlight and discuss this book.

[@widsomseries]

I would not call the 4th of July a Holy Day. It's the birthday celebration of this nation. This is why we must have separation of church and state. In combining them, it makes people think they are on the same level and can be co-mingled. There is no equal to God in this world. None.

[@esme011]

Very powerful. Enjoying this series

[@shanecagney7451]

Amazing 30 minutes!

[@AdamJohnSwenson]

Yes!

[@bethanydee1920]

I just happened onto your channel and am enjoying watching what you have to say. I wonder if Dave's comment at about minute 26:26 that he wouldn't know what to say to people who see nothing wrong with chanting USA at the end of a service intended to worship God could be addressed by explaining to folks that it's actually idolatry, which is so awful a sin we should actually flee from it. The definition of idolatry which was given to me quite clearly by the Holy Spirit after I'd specifically asked God for it, is when you replace God with ANYTHING. So everything in a corporate worship service should point to God. Just a thought.

[@plumucci]

I know that the nationalist would argue the separation of church and state with Isaiah 9:6, “ the government will be on his shoulders…“ How would you respond? Thank you.

[@jamesklein1278]

A tale of Two Barnabas. Trump and Biden. One has the power of liberal non Christians the other Make America Great agian conservatives... which to choose from.. wash your hand of both. Dr. James Linday on the woke left worshiping the God of this world. The truth on the culture war that Biden and Trump represent. Love what is good and hate what is evil. If you think Biden is good go to down town BIG city. Homelessness,crime, prostitution,illegals and to top it all off. You owe $101,000 to the national debt. Maybe Kennedy Jr is the answer. Not Biden or Trump.

[@christopherpierre816]

This was great

Very interesting analysis and helpful! Thank you!

[@ddd9322]

I'm not sure what to say. We've been lied to and it's upsetting. Thank you!

[@abclib32]

This is such a good podcast. Thanks for posting.

[@waynenelson7106]

Love to find you, here, brother. I will be posting your conversations for my friends and family. More power to you!

[@culturefaithandpolitics]

Thanks! Great to hear from you, Wayne!

[@lindaperry9950]

I wish I had found you sooner!

[@markdouglas8073]

Never Trump pastor here. Brothers, we need to speak up.

[@maxmontauk7281]

As a former lay preacher it seems clear that the approach to preaching in these times needs to be about the absolute fundamental basics of Christianity - because it is obvious that christian nationalism has distorted and changed the basics - sometimes in extreme, sometimes subtle ways... In short the flock is being misled - and I se that term advisedly.

[@d_cole_writerboy66]

Loved every minute of this and went to share it, then boom, profanity right at the end. Keep up the good biblical breakdown and try to keep it child friendly, you know, like the kingdom ;-) God bless.

[@chuckabean1]

"Give us Barrabas" = "Give us Trump"

[@fernandoalarcon8534]

So, are you saying that evangelicals would choose Trump over Jesus?

[@melissawilliamson8871]

I just discovered your channel today. I subscribed and I hope your channel will grow quickly because your message is extremely important. As I said in a comment on one of your other videos, I'm not a Christian, but I know enough about Jesus to know that he would never support an amoral bully like Trump. It looks to me like there are a lot of what I refer to as "fake Christians" supporting Trump.

[@deedeewilliams7692]

Nothing new under the sun!!💯

[@jodyjm13]

I have long felt, and sometimes said, that the MAGA and Christian Nationalist movement(s) have traded Jesus' methods of love and peace and service for the world's methods of fear and power and strength. That "Give us Barabbas" metaphor is a great way of making that point from the gospel accounts; I'll need to remember that for later discussions. Something else that struck me while reading chapter one was Winans's decision to follow the governor's edict to keep the church closed at the start of the COVID-19 pandemic. He notes that it wasn't a "sinful or immoral or unholy" edict, and so felt it fell under Paul's admonition to obey earthly authorities to the extent that our walk with Jesus will allow -- a feeling that was obviously rejected by much of his congregation. And yet now we see evangelical leaders using Paul's words about submitting to authority to justify the need to submit to Trump, and are doing so even without Trump actually being in power and while they're frequently engaged in opposing Biden's policies. At times I feel the creed of modern evangelicals has morphed into "There is no God but YHWH, and Trump is His prophet." One more quick note: Alberta mentions that most evangelicals avoid using the term "new Israel" even as they work on building up the USA as just that. Maybe it's a difference between southern evangelicals and those in the rest of the country, but I've been hearing the USA described as the "new Israel" for at least a decade before Trump started his run for the Republican nomination.

[@hal7ter]

I fear Zionism and the policies of Joe Biden WAY more than Trump - - - I fear nothing about Trump, actually, except how far he will go with his Zionism.

[@emilymoore8131]

Jesus refused to become an political leader, e.g. Luke 4:5-8, John 6:15, but said that his kingdom was not of this world, John 18:36. Jesus also rejected the use of force in his defense. (Matt 26:52). When Pilate (likely with sarcasm) offers to release "the king of the Jews," they demand Barabbas, a murderous insurrectionist (Mark 15:7). By this time it was likely apparent that Jesus was not going to be a Messiah who would lead a violent insurrection against Rome.

[@chrisrogers4052]

Did he say “BS”? The actual words?

[@BettyMensch]

You must be the first yelling Barababbs

[@brucee8332]

Christian Nationalism, like "Episcopal Bible Scholar," is an oxymoron (see Occidental College).

[@susanstein6604]

The crowd in Jerusalem didn’t know who Jesus was. Jesus was from the Kingdom of Israel and spoke Aramaic. The Hebrew speaking Jerusalemites wouldn’t have understood him. The “New” Testament was written decades after Jesus’s and in a different country. It is extremely likely the Gospels are wrong. David Johnson said Jews chose the way of Barrabas which is the way of power over Jesus who represents the way of peace. Well, all the Jews did except for Jesus the one decent Jew. That presents an ugly and inaccurate view on Jews and Judaism, so much for anti-Trump Christians.

[@mikeellis2025]

So all this ranting you are doing is all about money and your own self serving