Character Analysis: Janeway - Courageous Hero or Neurotic Survivor?

Let's discuss Captain Janeway..
Join my Patreon: / lorereloaded
Videos Mentioned:
Janeway Defeats Fear: • Scene Analysis: The Da...
Janeway Kills Tuvok: • Lore Debate : When Jan...
Year of Hell - • Voyager Lore : Year of...
================================================
Want to see something live? Check out..
P.O. Box: #343
2441-Q Old Fort Pkwy. #343
Murfreesboro, TN 37128-4162
================================================
Want More Lore?!
Star Trek Lore: goo.gl/McF2i5
Star Wars Lore: goo.gl/Hzyrk2
Battle Star Galactica Lore: goo.gl/jpPPUY
Star Trek Dominion War: goo.gl/fmwtPf
================================================
Twitter: / lorereloaded
Facebook: / lorereloaded
Twitch: / lorereloaded
Patreon: / lorereloaded
================================================
Come Hang out while I play..
Twitch: goo.gl/kiVw8w
===============================================
The music in this video is licensed Royalty Free.
Songs:
Music by:
© 2017 Epidemic Sound

[@oddish4352]

I have to wonder if ANY captain, regardless of his or her skill and potential, would be ready for what happened to Voyager...

[@sid2112]

Jellies would've broken the Kazon and had the crew back by lunch. Also, he would've had a four shift rotation dammit!

[@oddish4352]

@@sid2112 Probably had the Maquis in chains as well, right?

[@sid2112]

@@oddish4352 well recall that Jell-O isn't exactly a Cardy lover. He might have something of a soft spot for them. Know what I mean? Like Maxwell on the Phoenix.

[@christophervanoster]

Sisko would’ve just plowed through every hostile faction he met, ‘regulations be DAMNED!’

[@oddish4352]

@@sid2112 Good point. Still, Janeway did pretty well with them, especially if you compare her to other captains... Picard sent a deep cover operative into the Maquis... she promptly turned traitor and joined them for real. And look at the trouble Sisko had with dealing with one problem Maquis member. Janeway had 30+ of them eating out of her hand in a year.

[@trekjudas]

I love Janeway because unlike a certain captain we have now Janeway was fallible. She made mistakes, she wasn't perfect. She wasn't the bestest person evah! And I like that!

[@robertagu5533]

Thats why her character was good

[@monsterx3055]

@@robertagu5533 her character flaws were far too great for me seeing her in the initial roll of captain

[@stankovicmatija6275]

Also, her character didn't cry every freakin' episode... At least not on screen

[@R0ssMM]

Michael Burnham regularly makes mistakes; it's how we're introduced to her, in fact, and she continues it in series 3. Picard is the most faultless of the main characters in that regard.

[@trekjudas]

@@R0ssMM She's a lot like Rey. They're just trying way too hard to make them the greatest character ever. They need just chill with her a little. maybe do one episode where she's not in it.

[@trekjudas]

Janeway once executed a man and it was left up to the audience to decide if what she did was right or wrong. I think it's awesome that they let us make up our own minds and didn't force a point of view on us.

[@Gevaudan1471]

We need more of that in media.

[@oddish4352]

True. And as a regular person on the Trek MB, I can tell you lots of people revile her as a murderer.

[@literatiglee]

@@oddish4352 That's too bad (about Tuvix). I remember someone asking how a character went "bad" on BSG. Someone replied to the question saying, "the character didn't go bad, the point of the story was how good collided with good.

[@spiralinglight]

Pepperidge farm remembers

[@ragnarokgalaxy9510]

"The darker aspects of our heroes have something to teach us too" Well said.

[@razgriz501]

If I recall, Kate Mulgrew herself described Janeway as broken and weighed down by her guilt

[@pinzig]

I feel like her performance as an actress was absolutely amazing, regardless of how wayward the character became.

[@razgriz501]

@@pinzig Agreed. Mulgrew always delivered a stellar performance

[@SSingh-nr8qz]

This is a very accurate way to describe Janeway. The problem was in the early seasons of the show, it didn't come across well. It wasn't until we got some back story that everything made sense. I loved how her back stories fllled in the blanks and how she sees herself around people she commands and works with. 7 of 9's introduction really allowed Janeway's character to capitalize story. Remember Janeway always regretted not having kids. By the end, I would say her strongest character evolution was her becoming the mother figure of this entire crew. You got that protective mamma bear vibe from Janeway that goes beyond crew and captain. For me I saw her character go from -> Annoying and wound up way too tight -> broken on the inside but doing her best -> Ultimate Matriarch that she would do anything for. That is character development and how to save a character. I'm saying this as a person who HATED Janeway at the beginning of the series, then the writers listened t the fans, molded the characters, and by the end I love Janeway.

[@thegloriousryius]

I think Kate Mulgrew definitely the best person they could have found to play her.

[@madmojo-im6jz]

Most great leaders in history are driven by a need to compensate for something

[@MartinGarcia-ok5hb]

I've always like Voyager. I do believe that Janeway definitely made questionable choices and could be overly emotional but I always respected the fact that she loved her crew and was willing to do almost anything to keep them safe and get them home.

[@kobayashibrynhild9622]

Yeah, Voyager was a good series, despite its flaws.

[@MartinGarcia-ok5hb]

@@kobayashibrynhild9622 never understood the hate for it or Enterprise. I really enjoyed both series

[@kobayashibrynhild9622]

@@MartinGarcia-ok5hb yeah, I didn't either.

[@spiritofthewolf1880]

@@MartinGarcia-ok5hb Same! Voyager was my first Star Trek and it will always hold a special place in my heart.

[@pimpinaintdeadho]

@@MartinGarcia-ok5hb I agree although I didn't watch Enterprise when it was on the air like all the others. I watched it long after all the others on Prime and really enjoyed the show.

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

i think your PTSD theory makes a lot of sense and she's hardly the only Starfleet captain to carry that burden Picard certainly suffered truma from his Assimilation by the borg, and probably further Truma from Gul Madred's torture (and yet was not medically discharged) Sisko and Archer would both make choices that probably cost them sleep. one might theorize that it is impossible to be a captain in starfleet without being somehow broken.

[@eviebr83]

There's a good argument in there. Likely, if you are the type of leader that make these life and death decisions about people's lives without it breaking you(overly logical and without compassion), you wouldn't be a good captain in the first place.

[@windhelmguard5295]

sisko also had to watch helplessly as the federation fleet, along with his family, got wiped out by the borg.

[@DJRonnieG]

It's a FAAAAKE!

[@robertagu5533]

If one is put into such capacity an makes it long enough... If their of any importance or talent an last long enough in the role its probably, in time, impossible to make it as a Captain or higher without having to make difficult choices. An live with them. A lot of training episodes an parts of it hinted as much

[@Bitchslapper316]

The difference is that with Picard and Sisko there were several in depth episodes examining their past trauma. I wish Voyager would have done something like that.

[@wastedxlll1192]

Janeway, sisko and archer are my favourite captains because they aren’t perfect hell it could be argued that all of them committed war crimes at some point but that’s what makes them great characters their flaws

[@SSingh-nr8qz]

That is what command is. It's navigating and doing your best for your people. This can lead to uncharted situations and you are trying to do your best. You will make mistakes and even REALLY bad ones. It's easy for people to argue things in hindsight, but the question really boils down to intent and reasoning with the information you have at hand.

[@spartacusthebringerofrain3007]

Sisko was a military commander that not only suited the post he was in but was a talent heavily used during the war. Picard existed on diplomacy during peace during the show and was not suited for TOS and DS9. The movie Picard was but not the TV version. Survival isn't a war crime when a genocidal enemy is trying to destroy and enslave you.

[@Bitchslapper316]

Picard was the best written Captain imo. He had to endure setbacks, defeats and real loss quite frequently. Janeway is like Burnham in that she never really had to answer for her mistakes or deal with the consequences of her actions. Sisko was similar but to a lesser extent. Tl:dr Janeway, Sisko and Burnham all have plot armor. Picard not so much.

[@koschei4716]

@@Bitchslapper316 i think the fact that janeway didnt have to answer for her mistakes makes her very interesting because multiple times we can see that it weighs on her. like, imagine if there were no consequences for anything you did and so you constantly have to check yourself because you hold so much power? add that in on top of trauma and depression and it doesn't go well.

[@Bitchslapper316]

@@koschei4716 Yeah that much is true. I think It also came down to her not listening to subordinates as well. I can recall multiple times where Picard has his decisions influenced by Riker or Data. Some goes for Sisko with Kira and Dax. When it came to Janeway it was always her way, she even had Chokotay relieved of duty at least twice for disagreeing with her.

[@dawnsrayz]

I think the fact that Q wanted her to be the mother of his child speaks for how awesome she is. 😙

[@jeremiahgalindo6454]

@@HarleyQuinn-ol8ex chill out bro it's a TV show

[@oddish4352]

And the fact that she blew him off like he was a random amorous drunk in a bar...

[@SamBryans128]

If they made Picard with Janeway instead, season 2 would've been over in 3 episodes tops.

[@friendofjesus1680]

When Ransom asked Janeway if she had ever broken the prime directive and she responded, "bent, but not broken" my response: AHHAAHAHAHAHA

[@NineWorldsFromDrew]

I’ve just made a comment above, to argue that “bent, but not broken” is precisely the way to describe it. The Federation has never explicitly described the Prime Directive as brittle, or inflexible.

[@NitpickingNerd]

he's lucky he didn't ask her about the temporal prime directive

[@NineWorldsFromDrew]

@@NitpickingNerd Again, duress.... well.... mostly!

[@hellacoorinna9995]

The Novel of "Equinox" does actually go into Janeway hating Captain Ransom _because_ he reminds her of herself.

[@DJRonnieG]

@@hellacoorinna9995 the whole "how dare you all, you're all demoted" conclusion for the remaining crew was some moral high-horse bullshittery. I would love to see how Janeway would've handled things if she were in Ransom's shoes.

[@Mysticmegster1]

Janeway in The Year of Hell episodes was a real inspiration. She suffered greatly but kept it together despite everything

[@ZoeyZoco]

She’s still my *favorite* *captain!* Mulgrew made a mesmerizing performance throughout the series! She really embodies the character and for some people even makes you love to hate her! ❤️

[@WiglyWorm]

OMG yes. I'm introducing trek to my partner and we're watching around DS:9 (cuz it's the best), and while we absolutely HATE some of the decisions she makes, she's a fantastic character. Sisko will forever be my favorite for his amazing portrayals of fatherhood, no one can out Janeway Janeway when it comes to sheer grit and determination. And, yeah, she was *clearly* tortured by her decision to destroy the array. For all her faults, it's clear she swore she would get her crew home by any means necessary after that incident.

[@ZoeyZoco]

@@WiglyWorm oh I agree!! Even though Voyager & Janeway is my favorite... there’s no denying DS9 is THE BEST trek series! Sisko was such a bada$$! The writing was almost perfection! Consistent and captivating story too throughout the series!

[@WiglyWorm]

@@ZoeyZoco And let's be real. Picard wouldn't have lasted 20 minutes in the Delta Quadrant.

[@BlueBoxRevan]

I can definitely respect that.

[@oddish4352]

@@WiglyWorm Don't be so pessimistic. He'd have lasted at least 21 minutes...

[@supamat4]

did you just causally slip in some Janeway-Boothby fan fiction, lol

[@LoreReloaded]

Dude that’s from the shows.. don’t believe for a second home boi brought roses EVERY MORNING and not hitting that

[@emizerri]

@@LoreReloaded lmao so yes

[@pimpinaintdeadho]

@@LoreReloaded LMFAO

[@Zahgurym]

total spit-take when he said that bit. lmao

[@BlueBoxRevan]

@@LoreReloaded *sips earl grey*

[@hunterpdx7061]

Janeway is the Star Trek captain I tend to be the most conflicted about, but, at the same time, also appreciate as the most fallible and interesting. At one point early in the series she talks with Tuvok about wishing they had a ship's counselor on board, but the nature of their mission into the Badlands did not require one. That probably would have helped. Out of all of the Star Trek captains I think she had one of the hardest situations to navigate. It's a shame that, too often, the series seemed to take poor advantage of it's own story elements and situation. Voyager could have been a great series with unique and compelling moments and character drama. Instead we're left with a very hit-and-miss affair and a Captain who definitely appears compromised at times by the enormity of her plight. Don't get me wrong, I like Voyager overall. I just think it had a great many missed opportunities.

[@oddish4352]

The closest thing they had to a counselor was Neelix.

[@amandaforrester7636]

@@oddish4352 no wonder everyone on that ship was a mess.

[@oddish4352]

@@amandaforrester7636 Too bad Cavit didn't survive. They could have made Chakotay ship's counselor.

[@JROD082384]

The Tuvix situation boils down to the fact that the needs of the overall crew, not to mention the rights of Tuvok and Neelix as individual beings outweighed the needs and rights of the one newly created being.

[@marvelboy74]

This exactly. Tuvok and Neelix had no say in being merged. I know some people would say two wrongs don't make a right, but Tuvok and Neelix both had their rights to life violated by a transporter accident.

[@Gevaudan1471]

Tuvix was capable of all the tasks Neelix and Tuvok were assigned. Janeway just wanted her friend back.

[@BeastLingo42]

Tuvok and Neelix also had families they needed to get back to, on opposite sides of the galaxy.

[@LanMandragon1720]

Anything that brings back the abomination that is Neelix. Is objectively evil and deeply immoral...

[@deaks25]

I think the Season 5 opener "Night" is an underrated episode, especially when it comes to Janeway's character. She spends a good chunk of the episode wrestling her guilt at destroying the Caretaker array and stranding the crew, in order to do the morally right thing and when faced with a similar situation is prepared to essentially forefite her life to do the right thing and help her crew, backing up a lot of what LR talks about. It's a sorely missed opportunity because it could have been the start of an arc for Janeway coming to terms with the past, that she did the right thing, her crew support that kind of action and basically that she is being a (generally) good leader.

[@kaitlyn__L]

I would’ve so loved for more episodes to be like that. Especially how they’re getting short with each other and trying to find stuff to occupy their time. They must be going through a lot of that in between event episodes.

[@waynebrewer1901]

At the end of the day, she got shit done. In some situations, that's what matters.

[@kademcarthur5362]

I think Janeway is definitely a flawed character in my eyes. She definitely had every reason to just go straight home without stopping at any planet and shorten their journey through the Delta Quadrant, but instead, just like every other Starfleet Captain before her, she continued to explore strange new worlds, seeked out new life and new civilizations and boldly went where no one has gone before.

[@ZoeyZoco]

Well Lore did explains this in the video! There was no guarantee the crew and the ship would survive HOURS to figure out how to use the array to send them home! So she made the “logical” and “starfleet” decision to destroy it instead!

[@fadingjedi]

It's worth noting that Janeway was the captain that starfleet tasked with catching the maquis. Shes not a diplomate although she's has starfleet diplomatic training. And she not the captain of flagship of the fleet. She's a loyal soldier doing the job she was given. And then suddenly she's thrown into situation that she wasn't prepared for. She ain't the kind of captain that starfleet would have chosen to explore to the gama quadrant and back. In some ways she has a lot in common with Sisko. Neither captain is the best of the best. But both respond in the best way they know how to extraordinary circumstances that no one foresaw when assignments were handed out.

[@LoreReloaded]

She wasn't a solider, she was a science officer - I don't think she really had the soldier thing down :P

[@fadingjedi]

@@LoreReloaded she was soldier in the sense that she took orders and gave them. Starfleet said be a scientist so she was a scientist. They said hunt the maquis so she did that. If not for her adventures in the delta (I cited the wrong one in my previous) quadrant she would have been unremarkable. Just typical captain following orders.

[@NimhLabs]

I'll need to remember that the concept of fear itself is scared of Janeway. Damn, that Captain is a baddass!

[@DevilPogoStick]

Reminds me of Captain Pike in the pilot episode of Star Trek where he tells Boyce the doctor of his guilt of losing men in an ambush he felt he could've prevented and just how tired he was being responsible of the lives on the ship that it made him consider resigning from Starfleet. ...Yeah, Janeway probably felt several times as worse by the time she's done.

[@johnnafunkhouser5999]

This is a seriously great channel. In my top ten.

[@harrisonlawson9913]

Amen 🙏

[@MrBlazinerday]

Mulgrew was one of the best captains and should show up in Picard. In every series we have seen the captain struggle with the weight of command and making life or death decisions. Janeway was portrayed in a very human and believable way.

[@Qaianna]

Another thing about Admiral Janeway in the finale ... she had spent sixteen more years out there. Twenty-three years out there for a rookie captain, no matter how good they are ... Starfleet Medical may have dropped the ball on making sure she'd come out of that OK. Don't forget that back in Kirk's era the legendary missions were FIVE years. Quadrupling that tour of duty is not in anyone's best interest.

[@gmajor1273]

Janeway was a heroine and a great Captain.

[@trekjudas]

GASP!!!! DID JANEWAY CREATE THE DISCOVERY UNIVERSE???? She definitely created the dark future Picard is living in!!

[@studinthemaking]

That for sure.

[@cropathfinder]

no thats Psycho Janeway

[@oddish4352]

Janeway is the Chuck Norris of Star Trek. Creating alternate universes is no big deal for her.

[@lonnyyoung4285]

I always thought that First Contact did and Enterprise was the first show to take place in that timeline.

[@trekjudas]

@@lonnyyoung4285 It did! That event created at least three different universes!

[@christianjackson9298]

Lovely piece of writing Lore. Really enjoyed that vid. Thank you 😉

[@cdowns81]

Awesome discussion my man. Never thought of janeway in this way. Mind blown

[@nodar08]

Excellent summary to a complex characters and solidifies nicely why she in fact is my favorite captain. Thank you for this!

[@Lee883]

Boothby and Janeway? I always thought of him as a surrogate grandfather figure and you just made that feel reaaaaalllllllll dirty.

[@WiglyWorm]

Irregardless isn't a word. I'll donate to your patreon if you promise never to use it again. The word you mean is simply "regardless". Love your channel!

[@sid2112]

I like his work irregardless of his verbage.

[@WiglyWorm]

@@sid2112 as do i. I'm just offering him an easy pay day. XD

[@anhedonianepiphany5588]

This conflation of 'regardless' and 'irrespective' has become so common that some dictionaries now include it, sadly.

[@sid2112]

@@anhedonianepiphany5588 do they really now? Holy crap! Jesus guys I'm sorry. We just thought it would be funny to get the executives using buzzwords instead of actually knowing what we engineers were doing. It made out job easier because they were walking around with irregardless and synergy on the brains. We coined think outside of the box because the box is what we called our server lab, and it's a term for vaginas. But that's another story. *que Neverending Story fade out*

[@skatemetrix]

Irregardless is in the Cambridge Dictionary, the bible of English dictionaries, thus if irregardless was not a valid word in years before it is now!

[@Chiscringle]

Voyager is the first time we see the captain of a science ship, or indeed any ship that wasn't the flagship. Janeway's skill set was in commanding a crew that performs surveys and analysis, often on objects and locations where ships like the Enterprise had already been and neutralized any threat. It was also a technological proving ground for several upgrades that weren't fully tested and approved for general use. With that as her background, her behavior overall makes sense. She isn't a diplomat like Picard or a warrior-explorer like Kirk. Trained for situations like theirs, of course, but not expecting to handle them as a matter of routine, and always within a few days of a crew that could take over if she ended up in a situation that warranted it. All that on a ship in its first shakedown cruise with crew only, rather than something like the Enterprise D with an integrated crew and all families present. Her character works for me in that context.

[@BlueSideUp77]

This was one I have been looking forward to!

[@pedroarjona6996]

A surprisingly in depth analysis of a character that until now find of very little interest. I am amazed

[@MackerelCat]

What a thoughtful video. Thanks.

[@davidgiles4681]

I see Command as both a hero and Neurotic Survivor: Hero - in that a Commander (of a unit) must be - Counselor, Leader, Appeaser (to internal problems), problem solver, Mommy or Daddy to subordinate Officers (mentoring the Jr. Officers as an example of proper and moral Command), etc... A commander is a hero to the crew. He/she is the center of ultimate authority. That authority is what keeps the unit cohesive. A very good Commander will have their crew going to hell and back (just on the Commander's word). Neurotic Survivor - Janeway is put in a position very few Captains are. She is shoved 75k light yrs (into another quadrant) and left to go home (as best she can). She must survive. If she survives, the crew survives. Add to this the fact that you have Marquis (space terrorists = former SF) part of the crew, and you have an internal problem. She must be a survivor. She must survive and lead her crew to home. That can develop into a neurotic event (that would shape future decisions. People are counting upon Janeway to get them home. That would make anyone neurotic. This means "bending the rules" - "just a bit" to survive.

[@archades115]

I never considered that Janeway was fast-tracked into command. Leaving her very much unprepared for the situation in which she and Voyager found herself. That it did affect her on such a deep level. Voyager was perhaps the least of the original five series. But it was still great.

[@diamondsky3787]

the original five are what? TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY and ENT?

[@archades115]

@@diamondsky3787 Yes. STD and STP are trash. I haven't gotten around to watching Below Deck, so I cannot attest to the quality of that show.

[@diamondsky3787]

@@archades115 ye, I haven't watched STP nor Bellow Decks, but I have seen Discovery, it's not that it's bad, it's just feels that isn't trek but more like Star Wars.

[@kaitlyn__L]

Lower Decks feels very TNG-ish. If you can dig the comedy 25 minute format you’ll probably like it. Early Voyager said Janeway had another command prior to Voyager, but later Voyager said that Voyager was her first command. So that’s a bit of a retcon/mistake, and you can basically choose whether she was experienced or green.

[@Lokityus]

Oh man! This is so good! Perfect! 10/10

[@jonmason1955]

Great breakdown giving me a different perspective of the good and bad of Janeway's decisions.....and a bit of her back story!

[@novacaesar9303]

Good job dude. ❤️

[@phantom6knight]

I grew up watching Voyager and Deep Space Nine, and thus Janeway and Sisko are the embodiment of what it meant to be Starfleet officers. Only recently, I watched Enterprise, and now TNG for the first time (the full series), am I able to get a better scope of the "Prime Directive." I believe we all act based on the sum of our experiences. A older, battle-worn Janeway that steps through time, does so with the full weight of having lived through all those years and experiences, that created the reason why she made that choice. In hindsight (as as an audience) we can see the full scope of these actions in ways the character cannot; her actions had value, because they preserved the lives of those closest to her, and she had an obligation to get them home. I'm voting "Courageous Hero" on this!

[@Dancestar1981]

Definitely courageous hero

[@SnarkNSass]

Thanx for the breakdown of the First decision. The background info on her was nice. I didn't know most of it. The Tuvix question is where I am now. It's the worst decision... Worst choice... To have to make. You rock!🖖🏼

[@DioBrandoWRYYYYYY]

I don't like Janeway, but I also think that Voyager was a show with a fantastic premise that kept self-sabotaging itself because the people in charge had no idea what they had.

[@thesisko3715]

It could’ve been as good as DS9 if Berman wasn’t so conservative and rigid in holding to Gene’s “vision.”

[@DioBrandoWRYYYYYY]

@@thesisko3715 Well it's easy to blame everything on Berman but I think it's also the problem that the premise in of itself wasn't suited for the old type of episodic TV that still ruled the airwaves back then. It's not just Berman but also the networks that wanted something like Baywatch where they could churn out as many episodes as they could as a reliable slot filler rather than make Voyager a grim 12 episode miniseries where a bunch of smug space liberals get put through the meatgrinder and get reminded that the wild is brutal and unforgiving.

[@LucianLacroix]

Exceptional video.

[@marlls1989]

Again, regarding Tuvix, the only bad thing about disassembling them was getting Neelix back. If they could get only Tuvok back, it would be perfect

[@aperson22222]

Add to “Repressed” the fact that in “Shattered,” when the version of Janeway who was about to enter the Badlands learned all that would happen, she was horrified, determined to avoid it at all costs.

[@Oxideist]

Wasn't that after she had only seen the bad parts of their journey, though?

[@aperson22222]

@@Oxideist She'd seen a pretty fair representation.

[@taiwansivispacemparabellum9546]

11:12 eh maybe not, existence of Tuvix might be accidental in origin, but for Tuvix’s continual existence would mean the murder of Tuvak and Neelix. I can see the relationship Janeway weights more in benefit of the whole crew.

[@majornikku]

Lore Reloaded Rocks.

[@Sly88Frye]

It's quite possible after watching this that Janeway might just have been the most human Captain in all of Star Trek. She was much more fallible.

[@SSingh-nr8qz]

I HATED Janeway when I first saw the series. She was a bit of a Mary Sue. Later I found out her back story, and what drives her for "perfect" outcomes. She is deeply haunted and flawed but it was in that moment of being an actual human being and not just an ideal the writers were trying to push on the audience, that I loved Janeway. I would say her need to mentor to be better, and protective mother figure, was incredibly awesome and relatable. When 7 of 9 entered the story, and that relationship was awesome. It's funny, and I'm not sure if anyone has picked up on it, but the Borg Queen picked up on it. Janeway is very much like Borg Queen. She cares fiercely for her "collective". The difference is Janeway will take things personally and take things to the limit even into self destructive levels to do anything her "family" needs.

[@derkatzenstreu7099]

I never really thought about that parallelism between Janeway and the borg queen. But I think you could argue that the borg queen did as well take things personally when it comes to janeway. Everytime Janeway is presented to her, she enters a state of anger towards her, which makes her in Unimatrix zero almost destroy the collective just to undo what Janeway has done.

[@SSingh-nr8qz]

@@derkatzenstreu7099 This is not uncommon in the real world. Two powerful Queens opposing each other will act like this. I know people will call me sexist for saying this but it is a form of toxic female behaviour. It happens in dating and the workplace. There is a difference with men and women though. Men will attack and fight more on the physical end, while women will try to destroy you on a personal and relationship level. In the interactions between Janeway and The Borg Queen, that's what made the scenes feels so damn good and realistic. It's why female character who are written as females (rather than male or gender neutral in a female body) are so awesome. Every man knows and feels in their DNA, while men can be very destructive, when a woman loses it or hellbent on doing harm, a woman will scorch the entire Earth searching for your soul and everything you love to be turned to ashes. When done right. this kind of writing is amazing.

[@darktear099]

Christ man! “irregardless” isn’t a word!!!

[@LoreReloaded]

It is according to dictionaries

[@darktear099]

@@LoreReloaded it isn’t...the dictionaries you’re reading aren’t worth the paper they are printed on....try the oxford unabridged dictionary. Or, if that’s too difficult there’s a nice little episode of Family Guy or American Dad that explains it succinctly

[@sid2112]

@@darktear099 Webster or I quit, man.

[@Alexander-tu3iv]

@@darktear099 The oxford unabridged dictionary is biased in favour of British dialects and irregardless has its origins in Indiana and South Carolina. Language changes, if it's used enough by english speakers to be recognised by several dictionaries, it's a legitimate word to use. Stop being a snob.

[@xarniia6937]

I like your (made) ads as much as the videos.

[@Hailthecloudslayer]

Interesting video! I think its important to emphasize that you talked about rush or not mature enough to command. Which we can easily see in any place we work. Folks promoted quickly that may or may not be up to the task of their station. Also, that not every command is treated equal as well. Command of a starship on a 5 yr exploration tour or flagship of the federation vs a light cruiser on a short science survey. Voyager’s command is pretty low threat in the grand scheme of things until, its not and then becomes THE ultimate comparison of “my command was harder than yours”.

[@cookeatliverepeat8815]

"To survive war you have to become war" John Rambo. Therefore she is more a neurotic survivor to me. She and her crew faced death and pain since day one.

[@ThatBlasianStormtrooper]

Tuvix's death isn't even a death. Why is his life more important than the two he supplanted? The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or one. Also if it were me in that mix you bet your Scottie Pippin butt I want you to bring me back. What of my rights? What about my family? That one man is irrelevant compared to the greater number.

[@LoreReloaded]

Unfortunately that stupidly, ridiculous idiom works against your argument. What is best for the crew.. The needs of the many.. that outweigh the few.. is for tuvix to stay the way he is. Not only would tuvix require less space, require less food, require less energy - but according to JANEWAY he did the job of both neelix and tuvok better. So if we go with the needs of the many, out weighing the needs of the few.. we keep tuvix the way he is. We also should probably harvest the organs of any species we come upon that wont survive..

[@sid2112]

@@LoreReloaded All true, but a genetic freak accident of a teleporter needs to be fixed or killed before the writers make us want him gone.

[@LoreReloaded]

Hah fair.. sorry if that came off angry. I just don’t like that idiom.. it can be used for some horrible stuff. That said, you can make the argument that Tuvix didn’t have the right to live at the expense of Neelix and tuvok.. I’ve discussed that in the other video

[@ThatBlasianStormtrooper]

@@LoreReloaded man I am not upset. I'm biased. If I were in that situation that's what my feelings are. I would think it would be unfair for me to make someone suffer what I myself wouldn't want to. I don't think you were rude in anyway. I've watched your videos ik how you are and you're alright by my standards. Lol

[@naomikenzia-davis4148]

I agree with you and am surprised at how many people seem to think it was wrong. It's a bodily autonomy issue akin to abortion, but those whose bodies are being used are unable to give or refuse consent. As the only one aboard with any right to speak on their behalf, she chose to respect their autonomy. It was the right choice imo, though I could understand if she had chosen otherwise, I wouldn't have agreed with it.

[@Slavir_Nabru]

I don't feel bad for the people who never existed because of Endgame, I never considered the creation of another timeline where she just up and left, brutal.

[@brandonlink6568]

I kinda feel bad for the thousands, possibly billions, who would have been saved by miss goody two shoes interfering in matters on her way home

[@mightymulatto3000]

@@brandonlink6568 Lol she took away Harry's promotion. The best part!

[@Knuddelmon]

I don't think Admiral Janeway in Endgame destroyed her own timeline, she left it and created a new one, where Voyager returned home after 7 years instead of 23 years. While we don't know much about what happened to Voyager's crew afterwards (I think we'll see more in Prodigy Season 2), we know Janeway became Vice-Admiral and Chakotay Captain. I think it's safe to guess most of the others got their promotions, too, including Harry Kim (who btw. clearly destroyed HIS alternate timeline in Timeless!).

[@notoriouswhitemoth]

Judging by Journey's End, the Maquis came out of people who renounced their Federation citizenship and formed their own sovereign polities along the Cardassian border rather than be forcibly relocated - in which case they were no longer Federation citizens

[@LoreReloaded]

I’ve discussed this before. regardless of what they said , starfleet always considered them citizens

[@Corbomite_Meatballs]

No one ever leaves paradise, do they?

[@Meoknet]

This is why I think I love Janeway more than any other captain. The fact that she isn't perfect makes her so much more relatable. I can identify with many of the decisions she makes, even the reckless ones and the wrong ones. As a leader myself, I'm not perfect, no one is, but it's not your ability to always do the right thing that makes you a great leader... it's your perseverance to try. Captain Ransom stopped trying, but Janeway looked at her mistakes and persevered to move forward and do the right thing. You see it in "Night", where she refuses the strand the crew in the void because of her guilt about "Caretaker". We see it in "Endgame" as well, where she acknowledges that she didn't take her crew into consideration 7 years ago but she won't make that same mistake twice. I can personally relate to that.

[@sid2112]

Dammit why am I not getting notifications for your channel? This is like the third time.

[@thedarkdragon1437]

KZbin shadowban

[@2bituser569]

Janeway will later be known in the Delta quadrant as, “The Destroyer of Worlds” for her Borg collaboration.

[@ianrotten4453]

Voyager will always be my favorite. Even my Normie wife who always said "Star Track" loved that show. Ahhh, how I miss good Track!

[@seancollett6]

I always liked Janeway for the very reason that she does have flaws and like so many of us, she has a past filled with wrong turns. This is why the dynamic between her and Chakotay was so well done. Star Trek had seen the main characters pull through and make the best decisions so many times that when Janeway came along she kept us fans rooted in the reality of regret.

[@roberthenryscott8176]

Guilt and Fear has been Janeway’s constant companion. Awesome video as always!! I respectfully disagree with Janeway helping the Borg made things worse for the galaxy. Species 8472 said, “Your galaxy will be purged.” They intended to destroy everything. No survivors, Borg or non-Borg. They didn’t care who their target was because they felt everyone had to pay for the sins of the Borg. They were not, willing to talk things out with other species not involved in the war. With that in mind, face destruction at the hands of the Borg or Species 8472. If I was in Janeway’s place, I’ll probably sided with the Borg to even if it meant survival was less likely at the hands of the Borg.

[@129das]

Your completely wrong the Borg attacked Species 8472 invading their space leading to the massive war. They had not interest to invade before then. I am surprised he did not bring this up in the video.

[@alexinfinite7142]

Janeway openly refers to the ship Voyager as "home" and the crew her "family". She had to straddle a bad situation and the best way for her to handle it was to make sure everyone stayed tightly loyal and protective of each other. Not perfect but man she did a great job for someone in WAYYYYY over their head. Being taken out to the Delta Quadrant was a disaster for Voyager and it's crew in every single sense of the word. They shouldn't have even made it back home lol. The odds were staggered against her so badly it's kind of unthinkable. "Courageous Hero or Neurotic Survivor?" She's definitely both

[@neilbodwell9172]

Nobody believable is ready for what happened to Voyager. Species 8472 was a way worse threat than the Borg, however maybe she should have just tried to duck through there undetected and let them have it out. Realistically once they got home the folks who were gonna have families would have. Like Tom and B'elana were already married and expecting a child.

[@matthewwhite4564]

"My crew is my family, Kirk. Is there anything you would not do for your family?" Janeway is a flawed character, she makes mistakes, but always in the name of protecting her family. and why shouldn't she? Any good leader would prioritize their crew, their family's wellbeing, over anything or anyone else. and i think that is her most admirable trait, her care for her crew. Does this make her perfect? no. Were her decisions with regard to the Equinox, or the Hirogen questionable? yes. Does this make her a bad person? no. it makes her human. nobody is perfect. Maybe Janeway's biggest flaw is that she cares to much...but i'd rather have a captain that cares too much about my safety, than one that doesn't care about my safety at all.

[@Sirstas79]

Well said my friend

[@soldierski1669]

Janeway Was smart and resourceful, the "ark" of her attitude is one of a someone who is command in battle. New, Innocent at first, but hardened from responsibly. US ARMY SAPPER (RET)

[@acethesupervillain348]

You know, I think ultimately the beauty of Janeway is that she's so much more real and human than other captains. She goes through hell, she rises to the occasion, but she is also damaged by it. Even the most seasoned of captains and crews would not have gotten out of the Delta Quadrant unscathed, there's no amount of training or experience that would prepare anyone for it.

[@812amack]

Lets not forget that 8472 was going to purge our galaxy in the name of genetic purity, and Janeway knew this.

[@LoreReloaded]

We don’t know that for sure . I argue it in the video listed it may not be the case. They connect with one member of the species and assume everything, who was that alien? Was it a random soldier? A senator? Their version of the klan? No attempt at peaceful negotiation was made

[@Dumb-Comment]

Lol a sponsor section turned into your patreon ad, nice work XD

[@rextrek]

219th..! Janeway is One of my fave Captains....I liked how her character "Felt" things....especially with TUVIX and the last scene when she walks out in the hall ......same with the Last scene she has with SESKA....they Really -weigh- on her / character and emotions...I like that it shows.

[@everettjohnson9374]

One day I hope to be as evil as Janeway

[@brokeneyes6615]

You gotta kill a man, then they’ll send you to a slam where they say you’ll never see the light of day again and you pay a doctor 20 menthol kools to do a surgical shine jo- oh wait wrong anti-hero franchise. 😅

[@JaelaOrdo]

Same

[@jodieg6318]

It’s probably a bit of both and (given Treks history of episode ends, things are back to normal) I think it was by accident that Voyager had this one consistent thread running through it of the insane trauma bond the whole crew had and Janeway especially.

[@durkin9664]

Janeway wasn’t in a bad position like Ransom. Her ship was a good all rounder and fast, the Maquis crewmen she integrated were battle hardened and used to thinking out of the box plus their leader her first officer was an advanced Starfleet tactical instructor before resigning. Tuvok was also a senior instructor. Poor Ransom had a short range science vessel crewed by nerds and over 50% got wiped out in the first week. The fact he lasted so long is miraculous. Switch Captains around and Janeway would be squeezing the life forms with her bare hands for fuel.

[@hellacoorinna9995]

The Novel of "Equinox" does actually go into Janeway hating Captain Ransom _because_ he reminds her of herself.

[@robertagu5533]

The start if the video.. She WAS right. Working together is what saw them all way home. An the Maquis roots WAS Starfleet anyways. Since they left an/or resigned SF. She became the legend from all she went through in the series. Most everything she did was for her crews own good an to proven parties she'd act regularly to aid friends too. An on 8472. There was ABSOLUTELY NO WAY to know what their war against the Borg woulda done. THIS was addressed in STO. When 8472 RESURFACED.... WAY worse almost WORSE and decidedly conquerer and DESTROYER oriented. Thay woulda made Janeways video accuser nastalgic for the Borg.. He called kettle black unable to see past his own fantasies.

[@richardm3023]

Voyager is Gilligan's Island in space, Janeway is Gilligan.

[@clwho4652]

Destroying the Array was the right idea. The Kazon would have beaten Voyager off and taken control of the array, gotten ahold of of it's technology. The Kazon would have become a threat to the whole galaxy with that technology. She protected the Federation by destroying the Array.

[@Herowebcomics]

Man! She was doing some crazy stuff! ...But she also did some awesome stuff!

[@nobleactual7616]

Im glad I'm not the only person who has coined the term insaneway

[@busywl69]

janeway was just awesome! My fav Capt!

[@mikehendon7327]

Janeway's Warcrimes Count: "YES" Yet, at the same time, had literally any other Captain been put through the same ringer, with the same ship and conditions, it's probable that at best they would be dead, and at worst would have become Ransom...or worse. The example of "walking war crime" I tend to give being Yazan Gable, from Gundam. If the choices are Janeway, trying to hold true to her principles and her stated goal, stumbling with the best of intentions on the way... ...death, at the cost of a principle, including the deaths of (arguably) innocent Maquis who literally didn't ask for the war(s) they were dragged into... ...or Yazan Gable, getting home at the cost of her soul and destroying everything she ever cared for... ...Janeway chose what she felt was the closest thing to a proper Starfleet course of action...albeit one from the 23rd Century. This was someone who spoke fondly of the era of Kirk, even though "all of those people would have been in prison" in her era. She shifted gears to a time when the Prime Directive was viewed more pragmatically, along with numerous other rules and regulations. As Quark said, when survival is on the line, when there's no sonic showers or holodecks or replicators? When "Coffee. Black. Hot." only gets you a puzzled Talaxian? What's extraneous goes out the window and we're reminded of what every Captain truly is, in this series: A human goddamned being.

[@ryussjgod7148]

I have thought. I think the command of captain took its toll on Janeway is seen in the final episodes of Voyager (Endgame) in the first part Admiral Janeway hatches a plan to go back in time to save and bring Voyager back earlier. She through the Temporal Prime Directive out the window and changed the whole timeline of the Federation and also the Borg as a whole. I think that older Janeway was broken by the command of being captain and in some way this also took a toll on younger Janeway as well. Well this is my thoughts on this discussion. Whats yours? Peace!!

[@christenorio9555]

If I wrote an jjverse of Uss Voyager, Janeway & tuvok just set up Uss Voyager to be an prison reeducation ship with her admiral friend is a member of section 31 with Tom paris is an section 31 agent in training like Malcolm reed!

[@kaitlyn__L]

I was just rewatching _Endgame_ and you put how I felt so beautifully. She hurt everyone she left behind in the future. I used to believe that future continued on because we saw Tuvok and The Doctor reacting to her disappearance, but with this rewatch I notice that all stopped once she convinced Kim to let her go back. So the narrative structure suggests the timeline stops - it’s not as if it’s based on her personal knowledge of what goes on, or else we wouldn’t have had the scene with The Doctor and Barclay. I’ve also thought, compared to what we see in _Picard,_ that the Federation was in a stronger position in the _Endgame_ future - both technologically and socially. (Plus they had better-looking uniforms.) They had that anti-Borg armour, those torpedoes, there was no mention of a major Solar shipyard being destroyed, etc. So Janeway kinda screwed it up for.. basically everyone except Seven of Nine. But the episode presents it as if it were the right decision! Or maybe it just leaves it ambiguous? They have that tension between the Janeways, but that ultimately just leads to a fakeout that they were cooperating all along. It’s almost as if getting home 16 years early and finishing the show is, itself, an inherent good, or at least a necessity. And of course from the writers’ perspective it was. But there’s this unease that just hangs over _Endgame,_ the stuff in the future is bittersweet because it “didn’t really happen”, and then it’s all over before the episode had a chance to show anyone reacting to the fact that they’re finally home.

[@LegacyArkGames]

Re: Faulting Janeway for Siding against 8472: Need I remind that once they were done with the Borg, 8472 had announced its intent to destroy ALL life in the galaxy? This was a species which could quickly field a method of blowing up an entire planet. They were plenty capable of honoring that promise. They *were* a greater threat than the Borg, further exhibited in a later episode when they're revealed as having the ability to seamlessly shapeshift into and impersonate persons at Starfleet Academy. Nevermind the Borg were also a good choice because it was either fly through their space with help, or fly around their space and add a ton of time to their voyage. Command was too much weight for her? I'm sure she spent many nights crying in her quarters -- just like the rest of the crew of Voyager, stranded a lifetime from home with little hope of return. Just like those officers, she kept going. These videos seem to really, really reach to demonize Janeway for some reason. You sprinkle in a little complimentary commentary but ultimately describe her as corrupt, ignorant, unprepared, weak, so on. She was someone with a scientific background, not tactical or survivalist, reliant upon her wits and with no Starfleet to support her. I'd say she did pretty damn well against things no Starfleet officer had ever encountered prior. Yes, she was a firebrand and sometimes defied the rules to achieve what she thought were the best ends. That made her interesting.

[@LoreReloaded]

Just because the writing shows Jane way in a poor light, do not blame me. I have, doubtlessly, addressed the words used. In a follow up episode we saw they were bluffing because they were scared and trying to scare away voyager

[@osa236harca6]

theres also a little something about the array, using it meant either giving it to the kazon or delaying its destruction which would risk it not being destroyed at all so solution for the voyager same problem for the region

[@jamest8829]

Lore Reloaded interesting thought with the final episode. If the future Starfleet had time travel and could also detect events changing in the timeline, why did they not try to stop her? One she created a fixed point were she now has to travel back in time to get the crew home and her past self will repeat the process or stopping the change would have lead to something worse in their opinion🤔

[@JustgamingFl890]

I think another part we are missing out on is what happened before Voyager got to the alpha in the episode end game. If Admiral Janeway didnt go back and help the crew get home faster and would have sted the course, all of those encounters she would have had, people saved or lost. When Admiral jumped them home all of those lives changed as well. What Janeway would have done wasn't done anymore. I feel that those stories need to be explored more. But thats just my thoughts

[@phydeux]

"Irregardless" is NOT a word. Just say "regardless".

[@Hazardteam]

A question. *Why* i never saw Voyager to use quantum torpedos, and why i saw they used tricobalt device only once?

[@michaelfields3951]

5:39 I laughed so hard when you said that

[@claudemckenzie2398]

The best part I got a flodgers coffee commercial leading in 😂

[@theboredguy2107]

In my opinion chakotai was always the better captain, as he had been leading the maqui in battle for ages already. Able to hold the maqui and voyager crew together, and often opposed janeway’s crazy decisions on a regular basis.

[@monsterx3055]

yeah too bad he was the equivalent of osama bin laden

[@theboredguy2107]

@@monsterx3055 im pretty sure he didnt lead a religious war. Like all the Maquis he was walking the line between terrorist to freedom fighter because lets admit it, the cardassian union were genocidal A-holes who were actively terrorizing innocents in an attempt to simply capture more land. Not even valuable land it was simply land around them. I do think the maquis were misguided and foolish most of the time but before i ramble anymore, Chakotai wasnt straight up insane 99% of the time. (Insane aa the rest of the crew i mean) like he only went crazy twice.

[@Claudanne2]

I need to rewatch Voyager. It's been so long and I've seen so many videos bashing the show that I've developed negative feelings towards it; even though I remember enjoying it while I was watching it years ago. Time to go through it again with fresh eyes.

[@nagash303]

My 2 favourite Voyager episodes are the 37's and demon, where They land on a planet. Do you have a review for them? thanks in advance.

[@DionsTravels]

now that was UPN'ing (ooopin) 9, WWOR-TV

[@warrenreid6109]

Temporal mechanics gives me a headache. Wouldn't it had been the other way around? Rather than the future janeway timeline ending, it would have been present janeway's timeline being fulfilled. The divergence was created in the present and would not have affected the future janeways timeline with the exception of her nolonger being a part of it. The best example of this theory is in avengers endgame.

[@timomarkson]

The episode hope and fear proves my point about the Borg that the writers did not do them correctly when they invaded the alpha quadrant sending only one cube to take over the Federation Planes, that they don’t use these tactics they actually send hundreds of cubes to do tasks like this but if the borg sent onto to cubes they will be no Federation

[@mightymulatto3000]

Take the ship into that radioactive nebula without scanning it!