ChargeStop EV Fast Charger Reservation Not A Good Idea

[@sedawk]

I’m not a fan of apps at all. Let me connect and tap to pay. Easy and has been working flawless for gas pumps for ever.

[@LeftCoastEV]

This needs to be said over and over again. Give me RFID or let me use a credit card at the charger. Since this is a brand new site I am not sure why CC payments were not implemented. I know for a fact that Kempower has an awesome central payment terminal that they offer for all their customers. Why didn’t ChargeStop get one?

[@sedawk]

​@@LeftCoastEV Yup - fully agree. Two notes about this. One is that using the app is bad enough, but forcing me to purchase a balance and spend against that balance is mind blowing. I had to do this with FLO but what really blew me away is that Shell required me to do this in their app. Why does one of the largest companies in the world need a loan from me? Why must I give them $30, spend $21 to charge, and then have $9 sitting in their bank accounts! It is crazy. The second point is a credit to Ford to actually solving a lot of this problem for me. They have the Blue Oval Network that includes Tesla, Shell, ChargePoint, FLO, EVgo and more. I can activate any of the network's chargers from my Ford Pass App and my credit card (registered only with Ford), get billed for only what I used, and there is no surcharge or no need to carry a balance. In Canada, they also support plug-and-charge with Tesla - which is a very nice feature. I have use the Blue Oval Network at Shell stations multiple times - worked great and it's so nice not to loan Shell extra money. My last Shell charge - in Cochrane, AB - I didn't even use the phone, but rather the Public Charging app provided in the vehicle to start the charge. Super easy.

[@dougabbott8261]

I agree with you. Prepay $ amount with credit card and away you go. Forget all these apps and wallets. Unnecessary complexity.

[@LeftCoastEV]

I love what Ford is doing to make sure charging is as easy as possible. This is why people buy Teslas because all they need to do is plug and charge. Easy and simple. Anytime the companies make it complicated it drives me up the wall. I also agree that carrying a balance in all these apps is a very bad idea. Why not just charge for the session? Why do I need to top up a certain monetary amount? It all needs to be streamlined in the future or else adoption will be slow. Pumping gas is easy, charging should be just as easy.

[@dougabbott8261]

@@LeftCoastEV And you have to worry about giving out all your financial info to each app. Someone hacks it and you have new problems. At least Visa is going to have pretty good protection against hackers.

[@LeftCoastEV]

As you can see from the video, we are not fans of the ChargeStop EV charger booking system. What are your thoughts? Is this a good or bad idea? We still have so many questions on how it actually works and maybe one day (when the station is busy) we will be able to do a Part 3 and get those questions answered.

[@Defianthuman]

3:40 it could also be that people booked the times ahead so there are not available.

[@LeftCoastEV]

Could be. But when we arrived at the station just after booking there was only the Tesla charging. It would be nice to find out how their booking system works and if it is dynamic or not taking into account current and future (based on historical data) charger congestion.

[@UpcraftConsulting]

Thanks for doing it. Sorta proved the point, reservation is not the right model. It should be kept simple until the station is full then perhaps a virtual queue system if done well. But after you did the force quit @15:20 the screen maybe was telling you to use charger 100101 for the reservation if you freeze frame it. It shows that number on the phone before you got the confirm charge screen.

[@LeftCoastEV]

You are 100% correct! I did the freeze frame and it does show the connector where I plugged into. Since the whole station was empty, I guess the system just gave me charger number 1. I also agree with you that the reservation system is not the way to go, a virtual queue would make more sense in this case. Thanks for spotting this!

[@gusbarber00]

I like the idea of a virtual que system maybe with a deposit that you get back when you charge. Like you can enter the que 5-10 mins before you reach the station and if you charge you get your deposit back. Just to keep people from entering multiple ques and clogging up the system. Maybe I am overthinking it though lol

[@LeftCoastEV]

No. This idea is much better than a booking system. You are not overthinking and right on the money. Let’s see if any of the charging providers pick up these ideas. They should really listen to their clients more and don’t assume we require certain features.

[@westcoastbestcoast88]

The fact you were unable to start charging when you showed up with a reservation shows how broken their app is. You had to force close to start your charge. There being no live charger status showing current usage is also a huge miss. How should you know to book in advance if the current charger status is not shown in the app? So I agree the $2 charge is a money grab. They really need to work this out better. Like I can see from the other comment here that there is a lot of confusion about the booking system. I understand if the station is busy but it’s not. They should remove it until it is. Focus on core functions first. Thanks for this video. It’s rare to see honest videos like this.

[@LeftCoastEV]

I am very passionate about EVs and our electric mobility future, so I might be too harsh sometimes! However, I think that reliable and price competitive EV charging infrastructure is the foundation of that future. This is why I want to make sure that companies like ChargStop do right by their clients and offer what is promised and expected. Having said that, I agree with you that their app needs to be revamped. It needs to show current charger status for the booking system to make sense and for me to fork over $2 if I wish to use it. They also need to look at the bug I experienced when starting a charge. There should not be a need to force close the app just to make it function as it should. Thanks for your input!

[@westcoastbestcoast88]

@@LeftCoastEV Being a bit more harsh is good. They are offering a service so I think they should know from users where their shortcomings are. Plus they are wanting to sell franchises so this all needs to be streamlined before other locations pop up. Finally had a look at their PlugShare page and you are right…there is a picture there of the charger offering 300kW at 800v but in both of your videos the screens for 800v show a cap of 150kW. Not cool.

[@rosiekong5472]

I am not a fan of this booking a charger function at all. Maybe in wry busy location it will work but then I have more question about what happens when you show up to a full station with a booking. For now I will say it’s not the way it should be done.

[@LeftCoastEV]

Yeah I think we both agree that the system for booking needs to be improved. For now I just think it’s a calendar running in the background booking chargers. Could be wrong but this is what it feels like.

[@Lorwildrose]

We had planned to stop there but the reserve part, having to add $60 to an account I will never use and location caused a change to a Flo west of there.

[@LeftCoastEV]

Just to clarify you don’t need to book you can just show up. The booking part is an option that we don’t like. Also you are not putting $60 into the account it’s just an authorization hold on your credit card and then they will refund you any unused money once you are done charging. But good choice on the Flo it was probably cheaper than the $0.65 per kWh you would have paid here.

[@Lorwildrose]

I could see reserving if they were level 2 chargers and you wanted to spend a few hours shopping or walking around. Flo at the location I was at was .33$ per min. and it delivered as fast as it could 98kw fairly cheap.

[@tonymcflattie2450]

Good for when it’s busy and you NEED to grab a charge

[@tamjeff1751]

There is a new kempower one at UBC the kw is free but 6$ parking

[@LeftCoastEV]

That’s very good. Will need to go and check it out next time I am in Vancouver. Thanks for the info!

[@grahamkearnon6682]

The UK went through the silly dedicated app for a given charger system, now that's all gone, you just tap your card. Why is complication the go to for companies ?

[@LeftCoastEV]

No idea. Maybe they are looking to be a tech company too and want to boast about how many daily active users their app gets? By making it difficult they are alienating those consumers who are on the fence or negative about EVs even more (just look at some of the comments on this video). Makes no sense.

[@robertstillmaker5193]

Reservation systems are full of problems i.e. if I arrive at a station that looks open but I can't start my charge because someone who is on the way to the charger has it locked out until their reservation time runs out when I could have been charging for 30 minutes and be gone before the person with the reservation even arrives. As you pointed out "are they going to kick someone off the charger who is actively charging to make room for the reservation holder"?

[@LeftCoastEV]

Exactly. I totally agree with you. This leads to a very negative client experience for everyone involved. I would hate it if I had to stop charging abruptly since a reservation holder has booked the charger. Same thing the other way around, I would feel bad to kick someone off the charger when I arrive with my reservation. Thanks for your comments!

[@SteveBakerIsHere]

The bigger problem is if I show up to charge - and there's an empty charger - and now it won't let me use it because someone paid two bucks to skip the line and is 15 minutes late. That's going to piss people off. There's a reason I bought a Tesla and use only Tesla chargers.

[@LeftCoastEV]

Exactly. This would make a lot of their users angry and never want to go back if something like this happens. Tesla charging is still above everyone else and the Supercharger Network cannot be beaten. Thanks for your input!

[@iangardner2311]

Asking people to pay for a buggy app is bad PR. Forcing any reservation to be at least one hour in the future is also weak. If I am bombing down the highway variable road issues can cause variable arrival times. Lastly locking a busy station charger should cost more than $2. If the station is not busy then reservations are redundant.

[@LeftCoastEV]

Exactly this. You nailed our sentiment. Hope they see the video and listen to our suggestions and improve especially when they are trying to sell franchises.

[@robertstillmaker5193]

PlugShare was designed to be community sourced. So the station details like speed Etc are whatever the person who first entered details for the site entered. It's only been in recent years since around 2018 that PlugShare started moderating what is posted about a site. Not necessarily the company that opened the site. I.E. Electrify America or Electrify Canada listing 7 CCS plugs and 1 CHAdeMo plug when only 1 plug per station can be used at a time and there are only 4 stations or plugs that can be used. PlugShare moderates photos added to the site (maybe to protect from lewd pictures being posted). Anyway, if PlugShare is moderating site details then submit corrections or if they aren't moderating you can just enter the correct information i.e 150 kW if that is correct. Or like for ChargePoint where 2 plugs share 125 kW and you split the power if both plugs on the same station are in use. I thought the Kempower stations distribute power to the dispenser and may indeed be able to supply more than 150 kW to each dispenser plug.

[@LeftCoastEV]

If I were ChargeStop I would make sure that the listing for my business is correct. Plus their own app states speeds of 300kW for 800v EVs. There is even a picture on their listing page on ChargeStop that shows 400v and 800v max charging speeds. The Kempower chargers are certainly capable of providing 300kW.

[@simplygregsterev]

Id have been raging

[@LeftCoastEV]

I was almost there myself. This whole system they have is not ready for a consumer rollout.

[@simplygregsterev]

@@LeftCoastEV My ideal charging site is one that is simple to use and easy to pay. Iirc mercedes rolled out the reservation system on their network in USA not sure how that is. Personally cracking down on people charging over 80-85% should be a bigger focus

[@LeftCoastEV]

Totally agree. Idle fees should be standard on any EV charging network. Charging limits should also be implemented unless someone really needs to go beyond 80% they will need to pay double or triple per kWh to do so. Then you don’t need any booking system. Modern EVs for the most part charge pretty fast to 80. There is no need to make it all so complicated.

[@gingerboi8711]

That $2.15 reservation fee was roughly 3.3 Kwh of energy at their prices of $0.65 per kwh which assuming at least 3.5 mi/Kwh that's roughly 11.5 miles worth of energy so I agree unless it's busy and I really need to rock up to an available Plug... I would rather spend that money on energy going into my battery I average 4.3 mi/Kwh so for me its 15 miles worth of energy not worth the reserve fee to me

[@LeftCoastEV]

Agreed. I would also rather spend my money on the actual charge and not reservation fee. Thanks for your feedback!

[@jayhoughton558]

There is definitely some issues with this booking model. What happens if all the chargers are in use before the booking time? Doesn’t kick someone off to open it up? Or does it just hope the person ends charging before your charging time? (You mentioned this in the video. Would have to contact the company to find out). As for why it’s $2, it probably is to prevent people from needlessly reserving. Either those that don’t really want to, or those that just want to block the chargers and not even show up for charging. Imagine if some EV hater just reserved the chargers all the time just to cause issues and it was free. As far as you paying $2 for ‘nothing’, well it is really simply a $2 premium to ensure availability. Regardless of what is in use when you book, that changes. Certainly this is not very useful unless it’s a busy location however. I would much rather they do away with reservations. And simply enforce charge limits when the station is busy.

[@LeftCoastEV]

I didn’t think about the EV hater angle here. Good that you brought it up. Imagine this actually happened. That would be a nightmare especially if you just want to arrive and charge and all the chargers are booked up. I will send another email to the company to see if they would like to go on camera and answer all our questions. If they agree to an interview I will post it on the channel and if not then I will make a community post letting everyone know. If they are truly wanting to build a company with a focus on reliable charging experience they should address these issues. Thanks for your feedback, always appreciated!

[@jayhoughton558]

@@LeftCoastEV awesome. I’ll watch for follow ups!

[@JourneysADRIFT]

Why are the charger numbers 6 digits, when there's only a few charging stations? That's a bit annoying. if you reserve a charger at a busy station, does it just automatically tow the vehicle that will undoubtedly still be sat there. God forbid you just be able to tap your card and charge.

[@LeftCoastEV]

Not sure why the numbering system is the way it is...would have been nicer if it was shorter, max 2 to 3 digits. The station is never busy so I wasn't able to test out what happens when all stations are in use and you rock up with a reservation...would be good to know if the charger you booked just stops and the guy who was there needs to unplug and leave. It would make it really awkward if this is the case.

[@JourneysADRIFT]

@@LeftCoastEV I would assume the app notify the person, or it should lol. But humans tend to be human and a store full of snacks or a nearby restaurant, store, or long walk with a dog, not everyone just sits in their car and waits. I'd expect there to occasionally be people who aren't back quick enough. But who knows.

[@LeftCoastEV]

Hopefully I can test this out one day, I am interested to see how it works. And you are right about people being people and not everyone will sit there waiting for their car to charge.

[@Snerdles]

Not being able to stop on the unit seems reasonable because it's easy for anyone to walk by and hit all the stop buttons and ruins everyones day. The 2 bucks seems pretty reasonable too because if it's busy they block a charger making no money for at least 15 minutes even though they could be charging someone. It's tough because some dufus in a bolt can only get 50kw so has to charge over an hour so they can't alway gurantee a charger when you are in your way. I think rather than a reservation system it should just be a queue system that you say in the app you are on your way and it puts you 'in line' do if you show up on site and it's empty it just assigns you a charger but if it was busy you have already been in line waiting and it can assign chargers based on who has been waiting the longest. If they told you three stations were open so don't book and in thise 45 minutes cars showed up you'd also be upset too. This is why I think the system should just be queue based.

[@LeftCoastEV]

The queue system is the way to go. Much better solution than a reservation system. Thanks for your input!

[@aaron___6014]

Dealing with apps and technology has become such a hassle that I'm going out of my way to avoid anything that requires a new app and an account. An EV is going to be a big no. I see KZbinrs complaining about the apps and the charging station experiences. If the future is just more tech headaches then I'm voting against it. We need apps to bank, watch movies, order food, talk to friends and family, hell even to find a spouse. Enough.

[@WeeToddDidd]

I've driven an ICE vehicle for over 40 years, never seen a video explaining how to find a gas station or how to use one. Just saying...

[@LeftCoastEV]

Because 40 years ago there was no KZbin but I understand where you are coming from. I would venture to say that when the first Model T from Ford rolled out, people needed help in figuring it out and making it work (which included filling up). With electric cars, since they are new, people are looking to get answers and help just like those who purchased that Ford over a 100 years ago. Thanks for your input!

[@rainmannoodles]

@@LeftCoastEV Also 40 years ago it wasn’t possible for a charger company to extort their customers for reservations using a mandatory app. You just show up, first come first served, and pay like a normal person. The dystopian future is being forced on us step by step and EVs are right at the spearhead of it. I want no part of these buggy charging networks and mandatory app ecosystems.

[@vespaman101]

​@rainmannoodles then don't fight against EV's fight against shifty companies complicating charging. We will eventually have to abandoned gas powered vehicles. We will for environmental reasons and to lessen our reliance on the middle east for oil. Not to mention home charging is great. I've had an EV since last July and only used public charging stations twice. I've been to more gas stations for snacks and to fill my tires than charging stations. It's like charging my phone when I'm asleep. I wake up to 200 miles of range every day. Unless I drive 4 hours or so a day it's more than enough.

[@LeftCoastEV]

Exactly this. Most people myself included charge at home. And I agree with you: we have to fight against companies that make it more complicated to publicly charge an EV than it really should. This is the reason for this video. Maybe they will take notice, read the comments and decide to do better.

[@WeeToddDidd]

@@LeftCoastEV I should add that I've never been limited to filling up at a specific brand of gas station. Or needing an app to find one.

[@snaplash]

I won't be buying an EV until all public chargers work as easily as gas pumps. Scan credit card, or pay cash, plug in. No apps, no accounts needed. Yes, Tesla is much easier, but I won't be buying one of Musk's MagaMobiles.

[@LeftCoastEV]

We're getting there. Plug and charge is a thing now with many brands including Ford. But it is not as widespread as I would like. North America needs to learn from Europe where the European Union mandated that every charger (including Tesla Superchargers) have credit card readers installed. You do not need any apps there you just drive up, tap your CC and charge. Easy.

[@KelvinCheah69]

This is what happens when the people who write the software (app), do not drive an electric car, or understand how the whole system should work together. I have a strong suspicion that this app was outsourced to a foreign development team.

[@LeftCoastEV]

This is what I am thinking too. Zero polish and it seems like not all functionality was tested before going live. The omission of live charger status is the biggest issue for me. Every other app has this function, why not this one? Thanks for your input!

[@KelvinCheah69]

@@LeftCoastEV I am of the opinion that some of these companies exist only to be bought out by the larger competition. That's how they will make their money, not from charging your $2 for booking and $0.2 per kWh you charge. If the company does not offer a "carplay app", then it is really doing you a dis-service. Why force a driver to use a phone app while driving? All these little things are not thought through, so it really gives me the impression that they are a fly-by-night outfit.

[@LeftCoastEV]

In Canada these companies also receive a lot of grants from the government to start an EV charging business. I am also sure they receive some money for ongoing operations. Petro Canada a gas station operator in Canada got a lot of money to start their EV charging business and now they are shutting down the app in December and taking their infrastructure offline. They did zero maintenance and now all their chargers are in disarray. They promise to be back with a new app and a better experience, but I don’t think they will. It was just a way to get some free money from the government. There was probably a stipulation that they had to keep it “operational” for so many years and if they didn’t they had to pay back the grants. Now the time has expired so they are shutting things down. It’s a shame.

[@ColtonBlumhagen]

This place is expensive, offers a crappy convenience store, and has a broken app. No reason to go there when I could go literally anywhere else to somewhere with a better store, or a cafe, restaurant, etc. If they're going to break into this market they should be looking at what these types of "destination" charging stations are doing in Europe.

[@LeftCoastEV]

Agree. There is not unique selling point. When I see videos from Europe and the UK these “charging hubs” have way more to offer. I’m not really sure how they can justify selling franchises when there is really nothing to franchise. You can just contact Kempower, buy your own charging equipment and open a similar business to this quite easily. Thanks for your input!

[@DB25k]

Daft idea , it's like paying to park your car just to charge.

[@kophotography895]

WOW $$ to Reserve, WTF, do not pay this company. WOW just making $$ from you. Rude. Then the chargers are not available & No QR Code

[@blakespower]

yeah you think its not going to get worse? they have to make up for the lost Oil and Gas Taxes

[@picobyte]

The whole insanity of electric cars. My petrol car does 700km on 35l and never had i need to reserve a petrol station. Never had to charche for more than two minutes. An don't need another cellphone app for any petrol station. Usually I pay in state surveillance free good old cash. No Digital state currency for me! Gold backed currency is the only currency that currently holds.

[@LeftCoastEV]

Your car does 5L/100km? What kind of car do you drive?

[@picobyte]

@@LeftCoastEV An petrol powered toyota aygo.

[@picobyte]

You must hate that efficiency.

[@picobyte]

I'm running this car a while.

[@LeftCoastEV]

I don’t hate anything. I was just curious. Thanks for letting me know!