How To Become A Leader That People Respect

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Why The Starks Will Always Get Betrayed
The Stark men have a grim history of betrayal. Ned Stark by Petyr Baelish (Littlefinger). Robb Stark by Roose Bolton and Walder Frey. And Jon Snow by his Nightswatch brothers. Jon Snow got lucky with the resurrection, but his leadership abilities are still dismal.
This isn’t by accident. In fact, I blame Ned because all of the Stark men (including Jon Snow) share some of his flaws which make them doomed as leaders. They try to be good men, to do what’s right, but in the end they fail - this video will cover exactly how and what we can learn from them.
1. Ask: What do you know about the people around you, and what does that tell you about their motives?
2. Ignore what people say. You must look to their past actions to determine what they’ll do in the future.
3. To motivate people, align their interests with your own
4. Make sure the people on your team know the strategy, not just the tactics
5. A good leader repeats the mission and makes sure that people understand why things have to be done
6. Paint a vivid picture of what they stand to gain AND what they stand to lose
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[@taranjeetkaur5339]

"The problem with the Starks is not that they are honourable and just, but that they expect others to be honourable and just like them "

[@SharukhSaifi]

This is problem with most of us.

[@jimbowlaster3659]

Exactly, not everyone follows the same code of rules/ethics and they may not have the luxury to all the time, Ask Jaime Lannister, it irritates me that half the viewers don't understand that he can't go full hero instead of Anti-hero considering how much he has to lose in the show.

[@6ixlxrd]

@@SharukhSaifi Glad it isn't a problem with me. "Power is only given to those who are willing to lower themselves to pick it up." -Ragnar Lothbrok.

[@lukesavior3166]

Truee

[@brothaantone8286]

Sharukh Saifi Agreed

[@coconutsciencegirl9232]

“My fathers dead...” “What killed him?” “Loyalty “

[@baltulielkungsgunarsmiezis9714]

Lack of it.

[@augutusiroh3836]

It was stupidity

[@2wimpies556]

The lack of apostrophe in his words is making me uncomfortable

[@randomnamesoicanfindmyself3123]

@@baltulielkungsgunarsmiezis9714 ?

[@baltulielkungsgunarsmiezis9714]

@@randomnamesoicanfindmyself3123 It was the lack of loyalty in the south that killed him. Or it was his lack of loyalty to the north, to the point of being disloyal to the south.

[@chloem6609]

Biggest problem of the Stark men: predictability. Their honor and loyalty is admirable, but it also makes them predictable because they will always try to do exactly what they say they'll do.

[@continuousself-improvement1879]

Except when Robb promised to marry Frey's daughter but then did not.

[@josefferda460]

@TrapLordHodorThere is no problem with it, its Westeros thats flawed

[@hearmeroar6691]

@@josefferda460 However for survival we need to adjust according to our surroundings. I admire them though, not my favourite characters but stubborn and do not compromise their values.

[@MattGarcyaDC]

Straightforward too

[@mncedisikhupe1475]

@@josefferda460 The world is flawed too...good depiction

[@tofjip]

"Sometimes when I try to understand a person's motives, I play a little game. I assume the worst. "

[@AngelA-zz8ph]

Sansa: Lesson learned, lord Baelish.

[@yungwells6549]

The reason the Starks held the North for hundreds of years is because they took care and support their bannermen, so in return they had their ultimate loyalty. Yes you may call them fools, but that is just because they were dealing with totally different people with little to no *honor* than to which they knew.

[@freedomtruthis6498]

Well your making the video's point. You cannot assume others share your values. That was the point. It is in fact naive and stupid.

[@myugenjin]

City folk vs country folk

[@locomastero]

To be fair the Lannisters are in the same path right now. With the exception of Tyrrion.

[@elapin1998]

"The lone wolf dies, but the pack survives". Pretty much Ned's advice to Arya

[@vibovitold]

based on what we see in GoT, it's so easy to take a house down that one has to wonder how any house ever managed to physically survive for longer than two generations, not to mention to maintain any influence...

[@BabyKrogan]

If I were Ned I would have gone to straight to Robert rather than Cersei.

[@cocodakilla]

take robert in front of the people and tell everyone !!!

[@mitchgriffin2611]

what if he were wrong, he would be sentencing innocent people to death

[@Antonioperrota]

That time Robert was on a hunt...

[@chazbono3721]

he did it so cersei could save her family and it cost him his life

[@BabyKrogan]

Chaz Bono I know why he did it, I wouldn't have done the same. There's no way she could be trusted even slightly. I also think Ned could possibly have convinced Robert not to kill the kids (rather just disinherit and maybe exile them). He did eventually change his mind about killing Danerys.

[@TheCandymusiclover]

Another reason I appreciate Sansa's story is that she learns quickly that everyone is not her friend. She sees firsthand how people who were supposed to be on her side work for their self-interest instead; her own aunt turning on her made that clear. She keeps that in mind moving forward.

[@warbler1984]

Given what happened with the Lannisters, Littlefinger and the Boltons he learned quite slowly. The only reason she didn't die is because her enemies wanted her alive

[@ForteExpresso]

She learned that lesson quickly becoz of Joffery. She liked him But soon bcoz of him Lady and Ned had to die

[@janellejulianajoy]

@@warbler1984 As she said, "I'm a slow learner, it's true. But, I learn". By the time season, eight comes in; she had wisened up. If you are in an isolated cabin at the top of a hill with a million snakes making their way to your door, do you go out and handpick the poisonous ones, all the while getting bitten. Or, do you hold them at arm's length until you can adequately identify those that could potentially kill you? Winterfell is that hill, and outsiders are the snakes.

[@seth_fitzgerald]

Ofc she learns no one is faulting her for that, but no one would continue to give her props if her actions are against her family or the values.

[@chavamara]

I will point out, Sansa is learning to get around these problems!

[@karinaiwabuchi8212]

chavamara she definitely is!

[@chonkywater6129]

She still is to this day

[@TheV8Pumpkin]

@@karinaiwabuchi8212 she was kind of raised in her mature ages at the capital lol

[@ashaadarin3934]

Slowly, I wish it focused more on that than everything with Ramsay. I used to love Sansa, and I loved her relationship with littlefinger and how she was slowly learning. But she was ruined for me after all that and she kinda turned into a know it all.

[@unknownchannel3141]

Queen of the North for a reason

[@w-james9277]

The Starks. Good people, but not the brightest.

[@briansouthparkstudio1357]

lucky for them that most of the stark bannerman are loyal to the starks and the starks alone ( outright confirmed in the books basically every house in the north is planning to kill the frey's and bolton's to the last and plan a stark back in command of the north)

[@grimaldus1523]

They are loyal because the starks are good people.

[@josephpasquarella878]

Quick tempers, slow minds..

[@akubudakboy9218]

DJ fade he is half stark, half targaryen and he is loyal to house stark.

[@Annuska1995]

DJ fade He grew up among starks

[@zabaoth]

The moment I saw Ned was Sean Bean, I knew he was fucked. But the curse also extended to his family, servants, and even pets.

[@mteresavaldes2251]

Adrian Jutronich wish pets would have been left alone

[@OMMCOMHD]

Adrian Jutronich Even his home😂

[@D__Cain]

Adrian Jutronich lmao, I was so happy he was still acting but Bruh. He died after one season. Shit is too funny

[@sailor7537]

"All men must die, who are in anyway close to Sean Bean." - Screen Junkies

[@hatthomas555]

There's a compilation video of all his on-screen deaths...and it is *extensive* ! XD

[@strikerfrost7222]

Jesus how perfect was the casting for this show? Not only do the actors for Jon and Robb play their roles gloriously but they also look like f'ing brothers

[@lewakar]

Tyrion like Nordic and Hebrew families Starks are like Asian especially Chinese and Japanese families

[@babyboynoluv66]

Unfortunately they’re only cousins in the show

[@damiandusk9187]

@@babyboynoluv66 I share more qualities to my female cousin than I do to my 6 brothers. They can still look alike.

[@babyboynoluv66]

@@damiandusk9187 I understand that but in the show they’re cousins not brothers

[@nonameselected7250]

@@lewakar In what way are Starks anything like Asian/Chinese families lol. Y’all some of the most toxic families in the world

[@07Rasengan07]

"Never tell anybody outside the family what you're thinking" - Vito Corleone (The Godfather)

[@JamesRDavenport]

Salud!

[@mr.mccainsmonologue1456]

Amen

[@Somitten]

It's not that Ned Stark is stupid. It's because he is from the North. They operate under a different set of ethics, honour and code. It's a different culture up there. Also, House Stark is honour bound because that is how they uphold respect. They play by the rules whereas people in the South don't have to.

[@BOSIE321]

They've also held onto power for 1000 years haven't they? (well until recently anyway). Must be doing something right (well, again, until recently).

[@acutefailure1]

No one is saying he's stupid, just ignorant of reality in the south

[@Aussiex77x]

But it is not wise to assume that other houses will carry themselves with the same values and ethics.

[@terrencefrederick7795]

Well said I agree

[@terrencefrederick7795]

Right it's not the starks fault at all.

[@omergavriel7205]

Roose Bolton did everything he said. He ended up poisoned by his enemies.

[@iliketotrolololololo]

Hahaha, yeah "poisoned by his enemies"

[@nvRanger]

Food taster? He stabbed him...

[@DanielSilva-qf6nf]

+TuphSteel What do you mean? it is clear he was poisoned by his enemies Ramsay himself confirms that and he should know he was there

[@Kinos141]

right. poisoned.

[@NewWorldOrderFAIL]

I found roose telling Ramsay about his new son as very dumb. he knew what was going to happen. would've been better off making sure they went back to the freys and kept it low low or even kill Ramsay himself

[@TsarofScars]

I mean, Ned died because he was too honorable and thought the best in everyone. Robb and Jon weren't even 20 when they were betrayed and killed, I'm 19 myself and I think I would make the exact same mistakes

[@TheInfamousWolf]

You know nothing.

[@Argos-xb8ek]

@Zen Master Says you

[@t-bone6636]

@Zen Master its a fantasy story.

[@adriaciuroaltes2270]

In the books they are 16

[@9822703]

Ned din't die due to his honor, he died giving it up for bimbo sansa. he nearly won the game and gave cercie a chance to run, unbeknown ti him Robert was already dying.

[@mineisanonymity1410]

The Starks were betrayed not because they want to do the right thing, but because they trust the wrong ppl.

[@janellejulianajoy]

Your last sentence speaks volumes. Why does no one else get this?

[@1607Adi_Manz]

@@janellejulianajoy because we live in such corrupt world

[@aliakapoor]

Exactly, I love the Starks but must they trust everyone always even when those people are little finger and lysa or walder Frey? Arya Stark is my favourite stark child because she knows when a person is to be trusted and when to not trust that person, she sees people for who they are even as a kid. She knows joffery is a shithead, she knows they would not spare nymeria and I love that she does her best to avenge her family. Lyanna Mormont was an honorable girl and so was her whole house and even tho she was a child she knew better than to trust everyone, she spoke to the Starks with respect but she didn't swoon but she would never betray them. So, you're right they wasted no time trusting some of the scummiest people too fast. And trust should always be earned not thrown around like confetti.

[@AntiCitizenX]

In all fairness, Tyrion gets betrayed all the time as well.

[@breasticle6653]

But he's still alive.

[@kuroodo_]

That's because he is a half man and is/was playing the game of thrones

[@anglozombie2485]

he has plot armor

[@samismx]

That's only really because he's an imp. If he was as tall as jamie he would probably have a similar amount of respect.

[@mismismism]

The difference being, Tyrion usually sees it coming and understands people will betray him so he's prepared, thus, still alive, the Stark men have no awareness of others so they all get blind sided and killed even when there were obvious solutions.

[@oltsyo3442]

I think that the reason why Ned put his trust in Littlefinger is EXACTLY because he was in love with Catelyn. Catelyn once told Ned that Littlefinger is like a little brother to him and would never betray her. I think Ned knew that he couldnt trust Littlefinger, but he thought that he could trust that Littlefinger would do whats right for Catelyn, as he was in love with her. I agree that the Starks greatest weakeness is their honor though. Ned acknowledged that King's Landing is a dangerous place, as he mentioned a few times, he was just too innocent to survive all the power hungry snakes. "Ahh.. the Starks, quick tempers, slow minds" - Littlefinger.

[@oltsyo3442]

Also Ned wasnt exactly a stupid person, he figured out about Ser Arryn being poisoned and that Joffrey is a bastard as soon as he got to King's Landing. He also found Robert's bastard son (Gendry).. I mean the guy was pretty sharp tbh.

[@derektetteh1608]

olts yo I agree with you about Ned not being completely stupid but I don't agree that he was sharp either. Ned and Jon Arryn were only able to figure out Gendry was Roberts bastard because they already knew what Robert looked like when he was young and Gendry had much of his likeness. Additionally if Edward was sharp he would have never trusted little finger at all.

[@gordankarlic7188]

Well ned is dump if he thinks somebody in love with your wife will help you, last person littlefinger would want to help is guy banging woman he loves.

[@samiraclex]

Catelyn was a fool, simple as. It's been what...18 years since the last time she saw him, where he fought for her hand and got sliced open for it.

[@charlie172011]

smart as a detective but not at getting people

[@kevinjohnanand]

But the thing you're forgetting is that Ned's honor was what made him so beloved in the North. That honor was what created so much loyalty to his name. Tywin is a great contrast to this. He was certainly very smart. But after he died, his whole family collapsed. Because nobody cares about the Lannister name when Tywin isn't there.

[@Albert25012501]

Littlefinger : “ Oh, Starks.....quick tempered, slow mind”.

[@akshayKumar-xw1cy]

Tell that to sansa🙂

[@reynaldof.mapajr.9795]

@@akshayKumar-xw1cy Sansa Lannister

[@qwertyuiopasdfghjklzxcvbnm....]

@@akshayKumar-xw1cy Sansa Bolton

[@dzh1239]

The problem with the the Starks is they are too honorable. They are so honorable that they think others are honorable as well. They think that everyone around them is telling the truth when they really aren't making them easy ro deceive

[@dzh1239]

+Faceless Man those things are also factors. However I think ultimately honor is the Starks greatest strength and greatest weakness

[@KetwunsGamingPad]

The female Starks have learned at least.

[@mashek331]

That's because they've lost their men/brothers and been lucky enough to not fall under a blade (Catelyn withholding)... If they haven't learned by now to be snakes themselves then we have problems.

[@MrWheelchairstud]

+Ketorulz I was about to say that. the young stark women have learned the game.

[@justinrice5405]

There's a great Trope for this: Honor Before Reason.

[@strutter0505]

How dare you call my honorable lord ned a moron? The north will never forget this.

[@danlorett2184]

He is a moron though. He's also probably the most honorable person in GoT (or close to it) but your honor and $1 will get you a cup of coffee. That's the ugly truth of the real world and especially of Westeros. Ned just assumed everyone else was as honorable as he was even though he KNEW they were not. He lost his chance to save the kingdom from the Lannisters, the war of five kings, and his family because he refused to deal with the way the world IS, rather than the way he WANTED it to be. Ned could have taken Renly's offer to put enough men under his command to take control of the Lannisters in King's Landing. It might not have ended up with Stannis (the actual rightful king) on the throne, but it would have ended better than the Starks being slaughtered and the war of five kings being fought.

[@Shakor77]

He is naive, not a moron. He is the one who figures out that Joffrey is a bastard. A moron would not be able to do that. And your comment about honor is wrong aswell. Honorable people will get special kind of loyalty from their followers and Ned Stark's followers were just that. And there is no certainty that Ned's support for Renly would have ended well. It would have given Stannis more justification to fight Renly and Lannisters could come in and pick up the pieces from the battle between Renly and Stannis and thus leading to an all out war.

[@DracarysFyre]

+Shak he really didn't tho. JOn Arryn was pretty blunt about it and Ned still took forever. Plus EVERYONE knows. Even gutter filth before Ser Strong dashed his brains

[@crackshack2]

HANG THEM ALL XD

[@strutter0505]

+DracarysFyre and how do you think that gutter filth knows about the incest in the first place? Because ned sent a letter to stannis about the true heritage of robert's kids and told him that he is the rightful heir. And then, stannis sent ravens to every lord of the westeros about that matter. The rest is history.

[@MarcusLeonard307]

I would say of all the Starks, Jon is the biggest moron. The only reason he's still alive is because of the story.

[@bjornk9638]

He shouldn't have been resurrected.

[@willcruikshank7972]

Jon in the books is much, much more pragmatic, doesn't have a problem being ruthless, and is definitely not an honorable fool like Ned/Robb. He is only killed in the books because he was looking too far forward in attempts to combat the Others and didn't see the pathetic discontent of some Night's Watch members. Out of all the Starks in the books, Jon displays the most cunning and potential.

[@willcruikshank7972]

John Smith what? Jon will be back in his normal body otherwise Martin butchered his character and left it very unfulfilled for him to stay in a direwolf. I think it’s possible his consciousness stays in Ghost until his body is resurrected.

[@localman9063]

What do you expect from someone who knows nothing...

[@nguyenvuminhkhoi8179]

George said that in the story, people must endure suffer to have magical power, so i think jon can do that, sort of. He can be like werewolf of somthing =))

[@cecejk]

So the Starks get killed for being honorable, merciful and caring, while the rest die for being greedy, untrustworthy and deceitful. Guess in GoT you're damned if you do and damned if you don't.

[@arraikcruor6407]

No. The Starks have been in power of the North for over a 1000 years. The problem is when they were dealing with the south they didn't adapt their understanding of southern people.

[@thabisoshale9168]

That's life. There is not set of rules. Anything can take you up or down. Game of thrones shows the importance of decision making, especially taking into consideration different dynamics. One terrible decision and it's your head. Basically that was the problem with season 7 & 8. A lot of characters(particularly the Starks) made terrible decisions with little or no consequences.

[@blayzestarlight1886]

@@arraikcruor6407 8,000 years actually

[@mayasl1339]

No, it seems you have missed the point. Their flaw is not being honorable, merciful and caring. Their flaw is assuming that others are honorable, loyal, merciful and/or caring, as they are, and not paying attention to other people histories, preferences, and tendencies of behaviour. You can be loyal knowing that other people are not and behave according to that information.

[@Serryy]

"Starks will always get betrayed". Well, they ruled uncontested in the north for thousands of years.

[@MFCepicTV]

Uhh, the Kings of Winter had plenty of rivals. The Dustins aka Barrow Kings, the Reeds aka Marsh Kings, The Boltons aka Red Kings etc. It took them thousands of years to subdue them and it was only shortly before Aegon's Conquest that the Boltons finally bent the knee to the Starks.

[@denisl2760]

the times have changed, there is no more honor in westoros

[@Serryy]

Catalin Marin Yes of course they had. But after these rivals were striked down, they had no real problems.

[@BigBad-Wolf]

Yeah, shortly, like five thousand years before during the Andal Invasion.

[@zackgeorgly5099]

It's just about 300 years after Aegon's conquest, so the North has only been part of the seven kingdoms for less than three centuries and therefore been outside most of the southern influences. Maybe things have been slowly changing all that time. Furthermore, it's less than two decades from Robert's Rebellion, which also stirred a lot of things up. Starks still hadn't fully recuperated from losing the lord and heir of their house so they were in somewhat difficult position to start with.

[@Lucy-ng7cw]

The problem with Jon and robb is that they are based off 14-16 year olds. In the books their actions make sense coming from immature teenagers. But in the show they are grown men with the actors almost 10 years older. It makes them seem like morons. So instead of seeming like intelligent for their age they seem stupid and short sited

[@VeganCossack]

Yeah. that clarifies quite something...

[@sapereaude1483]

The only morons are the people who betray them. All Starks allways do the most correct thing and this video has no sense.

[@Lucy-ng7cw]

To put this in perspective in the books they were the same age at the start as the actor who played Rickon. Imagine how different Robb would have been viewed by the fandom if thats what he looked like.

[@sapereaude1483]

MultiAREE: Of course take power from your enemies is not wrong, I do not know what are you smoking but I recommed you to stop.

[@sapereaude1483]

of course not because in that show there are too many morons killing the people who does the correct thing.

[@marcopico7074]

Soldiers know honor and duty, Varys told Tyrion " Jon Arrin and Ned Stark were good honorable men, but they dispised the game and those who play it".

[@Lite727]

Nope not with Sansa around. She’s learned the most

[@LittleHenry90]

@Notorious1503 Arya learned and transformed the most from all the starks. From innocent little girl to dangerous Assassin. No one can deny that 😁

[@urdaddy8801]

@Notorious1503Lmao are we watching the same show

[@urdaddy8801]

@@LittleHenry90 nah, arya has always had it in her. Shes always been headstrong. I mean look at the first ep where she held the sword over joffrey. Shes obviously developed skills in fighting but i think its obvious that sansa has had the most character development.

[@himaniarora4069]

@Ram-C she became smart after the things that happened to her. How can somebody be this shallow?

[@neutronalchemist3241]

Arya learned the most. She survived because she was fresh from the lessons of Syrio Forel. He taught her the two most important lessons. To see the things as they are, not as you expect, or hope, them to be, and to adapt to the situation (that's MUCH more evident in the books). Not by chance she's the only Stark that survives thanks to her own strenght (Sansa survives only because she's valuable).

[@cedericdrachenreign7637]

With Ned's trust of Baelish you're missing an important part. Ned put his faith in Cat's trust for Baelish, not Baelish himself. It's their combined naivety that get Ned killed, not his honor alone.

[@aliakapoor]

It always irked me how impulsive was Cat to capture Tyrion, even if she did believe he pushed her son, she should have atleast tried to find good proof, a dagger isn't solid proof and her trusting little finger, the man's body language could tell you that he is pathetic and will go to any extent to serve himself.

[@derektetteh1608]

I think Rob the worst Stark when it came to making decisions. He should have kept Richard Karstark alive since he controls a massive portion of Robbs army; keeping them loyal was essential. The most laughable thing Robb did was marrying Talisa(betraying the Frey's) and then expecting the Frey's help. I think even Ned and Jon would be like brruuhh! 😑😤

[@tywinlannister-videoeditor5057]

Rob was probably a bigger mess then even John Snow, if you ask me.

[@ojogbaneamedu2501]

Derek Tetteh Rob was my favourite character but your completely right.

[@ColArana]

Agreed. Marrying Talisa was idiotic. At least it was understandable why he married Jeyne in the books.

[@yudebeats1076]

You're right. Also If robb didn't execute richard karstark then rickon would probably be still alive as well

[@ColArana]

Let's be fair here. Catelyn ruined Robb's efforts first by releasing Jaime. She's also the one who started the entire war on a kneejerk reaction that anyone could have figured out was a frame-up. Tyrion blatantly points out how obvious it was that he was being framed (Slightly paraphrased but I believe it was to the effect of "What kind of idiot arms an assassin with his own dagger?") If Catelyn had not released Jaime without Robb's consent, Robb would not have lost the Kastarks. Robb honestly, wasn't wrong to ignore her counsel, she gave as much poor counsel as she did useful. Really, Brynden Tully was the only advisor Robb needed.

[@berserker2.0]

"Ah the Starks quick tempers slow minds" -Littlefinger.

[@jac1111]

This is also a flaw of all of the noble families in GoT - they all underestimate Little Finger because of their culture. Little Finger is from a lowly, recently landed noble family. He’s like a servant to them.

[@GhostNameless]

Why the starks will always get betrayed? George R. R. Martin.

[@akapam57]

thanks you! that is all. lol

[@eatass1332]

cuz they cant keep pets

[@SangNguyen-ql3qm]

+RandomFox With sunglasses yeah. G RR Martin say:" No dogs allowed in this game" . The starks didnt listen.

[@eatass1332]

Sang Nguyen XD bad starks

[@LiVeLiKeURdying2]

Throw them a bone, will ya? ;)

[@ShadowShroud7]

1) Ned didn't initially trust or like Littlefinger, he only worked with him because Catelyn vouched for Baelish. I'd also point out that Baelish was the one manipulating Starks and Lannisters to fight each other from the moment he poisoned Jon Arryn and told Lysa to blame the Lannisters for it. 2) Ned wasn't underestimating Cersei, he rightly deduced that she had no true power on her own. With the information that he had, there was no way of predicting that Robert would get killed by a boar. The fact that Cersei's plan worked is sheer luck as boars aren't naturally aggressive creatures and would've been more likely to flee Robert than attack him unless provoked or cornered. That said, it honestly only worked because the plot needed Robert to die. 3) Ned has empathy (see his treatment of his servants, wife, children and most people in general), the problem is that it's near-impossible to step into the shoes of a selfish and sociopath. Especially if said sociopath is a master at hiding their intentions and true nature. 4) Martin's confirmed that even if Robb hadn't broken his word, the Freys would've betrayed him anyway. 5) Becoming King in the North was the will of Robb's people, how is that not aligning himself with his people's wants? 6) Karstark never would've settled for waiting till after the war. Also, giving someone what they want should never come at losing what you want as well. The Kingslayer was a vital hostage and letting Karstark kill him would do more harm than good. What Cat did was stupid, but Karstark crossed the line when he killed Stark/Tully guards and murdered the Lannister boys. If Robb hadn't executed Karstark, he would've lost more than just the Karstarks and would've lost a lot of respect from his men. 7) No, Edmure's fault is his own. He was given a direct order and he disobeyed it, that's Edmure's responsibility. Edmure's lucky that he wasn't punished more severely for insubordination. In the books, it's made clear that Edmure's actions are based on rashness and a desire to uphold his pride after his losses earlier in the war. But Edmure fails to understand that attacking Tywin keeps Tywin's armies in the Riverlands where they'll continue to harm and terrorize Edmure's people. Even without knowing the whole plan, Edmure should've been willing to let Tywin go west and only fight if attacked as Riverrun would be able to withstand a siege. Robb delegated Edmure the task of protecting the Riverlands and Edmure failed by stopping Tywin from leaving the Riverlands. 8) Bullshit. Jon and others have known about the Walkers since Season 1 when a wight tried to murder Lord-Commander Mormont. Some of the Night's Watch know that Craster is sacrificing his baby boys to the Walkers; Many were slaughtered at the Fist of the First Men; and after capturing several wildlings and interrogating them, the Watch should know exactly why Mance was trying to get past the Wall. Which is confirmed by the Hardhome massacre. If the traitors in the Watch didn't understand the threat, then that's their fault. A Watchman is only at fault when he fails to warn the people of the coming danger. But if the Watchman has given multiple warnings and pointed to many signs of the danger and the people still ignore him, the destruction of that town is their fault. They've seen some of the signs themselves and Jon has reminded them of the truth, but they're too caught in their own stubborn hatred to fully realize what all of this means. There's only so much that Jon could've done with such stiff-necked idiots. Vague threat? Jon was short and to the point with Olly. Jon fought against wildlings too and lost several best friends during the Battle for Castle Black. Jon's honor and life was put on the line because of the wildlings. Jon understands his brother's hatred of the Wildlings, but he's wise enough to think beyond himself and to know that the Night's Watch is meant to protect the realms of men against Winter. That includes the wildlings whether you like them or not. He also knows that the Watch will need allies against the Walkers or they will all die, just like the brothers who died at the Fist of the First Men. Also, it's nice how you omit the fact that Jon did get through to the Wildlings with the techniques you describe and persuaded them to start leaving Hardhome. Most of them did die anyway, but the fact that Jon persuaded the usually stubborn and free-spirited free folk to leave and managed to save some of them should not be overlooked. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. Also, being a leader means doing things that people won't like or want. But those things are necessary for the cause and people will recognize that in the future. If you give everyone what they want all of the time, they never grow and sometimes, it causes long-term harm. This is a method of leadership that historically holds up and that's why the show's dumbing down of the Starks is so annoying. The books give a more balanced and fair perspective on the leadership capabilities of the Stark Men. Their only flaw is that they're not backstabbing schemers which puts them at a disadvantage against backstabbing schemers. But if the Starks were just as bad as their enemies then they would lose the admirable qualities that we love about them. (looking at you Sansa)

[@devinmccourty1500]

This comment deserves more likes

[@IdaSantti]

Devin McCourty way more

[@Pushitdummyinc]

Devin McCourty and then some

[@DanBrown96]

But Catelyn is also a notoriously poor judge of character and Ned knows that about her. Of course Littlefinger is pulling strings, that's always been his modus operandi. The point is that Ned should have known that. The fact that Baelish loves his wife is exactly WHY Ned shouldn't trust him, regardless of what Catelyn or Baelish say. Sansa, on the other hand NEVER trusted Baelish and watched and waited until he showed his hand.

[@MichelleSchollian]

ShadowShroud7 .. I just love how you have broken it all down .. And still told it just like it is .. And it's so true .. Everything that you have said here .. Absolutely ..

[@agreencat3484]

Yeah Robb was so predictable that he fooled Tywin Lannister.

[@ForteExpresso]

He was good strategist but here they are talking about how your own people can betray you when you don't try to understand them

[@Colddirector]

Military strategy is a different ball game than political strategy.

[@toomanyaccounts]

even though Robb won every battle the losses of soldiers would mean he would have no army while the Lannisters would still have enough men to win the war. it does no good to win a battle when it will make you lose the war.

[@Usoda_]

A bit late but didn't Tywin fool himself by underestimating Rob?

[@Mansare94]

@@Usoda_ Yes but he recovered the war by winning a political war against Rob, Getting the Boltons and the Freys on his side.

[@theoutsider8745]

And now thanks to Season 8 we can now see Starks betraying Starks. How meta!

[@juliacastro817]

That, literally, never happened.

[@theoutsider8745]

@@juliacastro817 Sansa told Tyrion about Jon's true heritage when he asked her not to. Breaking a promise is pretty much a betrayal of trust, no?

[@omarkansoh3808]

@@theoutsider8745 that's not really betraying him cuz she did it so that tyrion would help Jon get the throne, she did it for him not to betray him. So really she just did what she thought was right and she was right about it Jon would've been a better ruler than Danny.

[@janellejulianajoy]

@@theoutsider8745 Lol. And Jon gave up his people (so much as a survey to ask the people who gave him the title in the first place) without so much as a survey. This is a lesson learned. When your people vehemently tell you they don't want another foreigner to rule them, perhaps you should listen.

[@Blade-hf9po]

Robb is the one that infuriated me. I just rewatched a few episodes from Season 3 and well, the Red Wedding was so obvious. He resfused to marry a girl, which was quite an offense to that old frye(fray? idr). And Robb still expect this guy to side with him. that was a VERY stupid move.

[@Antennenwels1]

frey

[@sppotterstark8057]

You dont kill someone for not marrying your daughter .

[@properduction2586]

@@sppotterstark8057 You dont expect someone to help you if you didnt marry his daughter...

[@brianlam257]

In Robb's defense, that old frey did bait him with false hope by sending a messenger with harsh conditions. That led Robb (wrongly) think the Freys would still be an ally if he can meet those conditions. Even his mother falls for that though she has known the freys for decades

[@sppotterstark8057]

@@properduction2586 True But you miss the point . Frey could have chosen to sit the war out . He chose to murder robb and Catelyn. I hope lady Catelyn/stoneheart, arya, Jon, Sansa murders every frey, bolton and Lannister ( no one must live ) all towers must fall - frey All red kings flayed - boltons All lions must die- Lannisters All roses must wither - tyrell All stags must rise- for gendry All wolves must howl- Starks Justice for westeros . Something the Lannisters will never give to any commoner or royals . The books must end similar to the show with either of the starks on the throne but without dany death or if she dies - let it be heroic.

[@Xojzk12]

It goes even father than this. Ned's father was called to Kings landing and betrayed. His son Brandon was called for trial by combat and betrayed. Being forced to fight "Fire".

[@vlandianbutter9960]

If only brandon was a regular youtube commenter, he could have survived it.

[@tdrcgm8081]

Its the other way around neds father fought fire in the trial by combat

[@CrusaderZade]

No, that's not what happend. Brandon Stark (Ned's brother) went to King's Landing to demand Lyanna Stark (Ned's sister) back from Rhaegar Targaryen, King Aerys Targaryen took this as a threat so he imprisoned Brandon. Rickard Stark (Ned's dad) rushed to King's Landing to get his eldest son back, when he got there he challenged Aerys to a trial by combat so that if he won then Aerys would set Brandon free. Aerys accepted but his champion was fire, so he had Rickard hung from the ceiling of the Red Keep with a bonfire lit under him, then he had Brandon brought out with a strangling device tied to his neck and a sword put just out of his reach. Aerys told Brandon that if he could reach the sword and cut himself free, then he could save his father and they all could go home. So Brandon died strangling himself trying to get the sword while Rickard was roasted alive in his armor.

[@Jim-ti5ck]

+Mrbattledude Why don't we have good justice systems like that anymore?

[@BigBad-Wolf]

If only. Then he could just come to King's Landing and win the throne in 5 minutes. Then he would conquer the world and bring eternal peace.

[@KTChamberlain]

Ygritte: "You say nothing, Jon Snow."

[@hahah351]

Hahha

[@fabi3790]

Now at the end it was "You do/did nothing, Jon snow"

[@jessicahart7126]

For Rob’s part did you seriously neglect to mention that he was overruled by his passionate love affair with Telisa, losing the confidence and respect of his allies when he needed it? That was probably the biggest mistake he made. That’s why John prevailed where Rob failed - in sacrificing love for duty - John was a truly selfless leader.

[@TBSest1955]

The Starks are men of honor. They speak truthfully and act morally. They play a different game, a game where the only way to lose is by forsaking what one knows is right; and the only way to win is by dying without doing so.

[@amimoradi4559]

John Taylor True indeed, my exact thoughts. They're not vicious like the rest but pure and simple

[@Akkumako]

John Taylor that's why they are the best

[@rodneyabrett]

They were destined to be Martyrs. Honor above all and their enemies knew this and exploited it. They could always count on a Stark to be a Stark.

[@darrenfleming7901]

The real "good of the realm" lies in upholding it's integrity, whatever the cost.

[@smirkypants]

Jon failed to communicate not because of any fault, but because the showrunners needed to move the plot in a particular direction. Besides, soldiers talk. Everyone at Castle Black would've known what the hell happened. It was just bad scriptwriting.

[@brucedavis3915]

Jon fails for exactly the reason this guy states. Although it's true the plot need to move in a certain direction, it is clear the male starks are not fit to be king or rule any lands since they fail at "playing the chess game". Sansa is the one that will be queen of the north due to littlefinger teaching her how to outplay ppl. It was clear in the last episode of game of thrones when she warned jon of who actually knows ramsey, what he will do, & why jon will fail. I dunno if u saw the episode so I won't spoil in but if u did then the answer is clear of who knows how to be an effective leader. Politicians are no different. It's the reason why in this epic story the most dangerous ppl are actually, littlefinger, ramsey, the high sparrow, tyrion, Tywin, Olenna & varys the spider. Sansa & queen margaery are well on their way also. Circee would have made the list if she weren't so spoiled & predictable. The only reason why Jon is even alive is because there is more to his past story in which Bran's quest will reveal.

[@GR-ym8po]

that's what happens when you go for visual effects and plot points instead of consistent logic within the story....why wouldn't sansa tell him about a giant army to have the most effective strategy? because in the books the army of the vale will be a suprise to the battle....and sansa will be coming with it. Instead the show made sansa into Jane Pool and lost all logic to hit a plot point.

[@GR-ym8po]

+Brandon Davis she didn't help him at all. she gave him the advice he already knew....don't do what he is expecting. then when asked what he should do she says idk....while ignoring a giant military advantage that could effect the strategy of Jon's attack. It comes from bad writing but if the show is trying to make her a good ruler/smart person they have failed. she is a puppet. moved from one story line to another never making any good decisions. Every decision she has made has been horrible. Maybe it will all be a learning lesson for her but at some point she will need to actually make decent decisions. I feel she makes it to the end it will be from the fact that jon or littlefinger is carrying her. if left to her own devices she would have died in kings landing she would have died in the vale or she would have died at winterfell....this all comes from trying to make Sansa into Jane Pool for the last two season.

[@housereed7860]

+Brandon Davis in his defense, she could have told him about the army of the vale coming. I am not saying he made a wise choice, charging into battle alone was pretty stupid, but she did give him vague advise. Don't do what he wants you to do. What exactly is that?That plot armor protection does wonders though. Anyways, she didn't bring up another potential army. Her mistrustfulness basically caused it. If you just told him the army of the vale was coming, he would have waited. It is on Sansa's shoulders just as much as Jon.

[@ayylmao752]

this. the reason they gave for Jon's stabbing in the show is really not miscommunication, it's bad writing. in the books his brothers Stab him for a much more obvious reason that the site decided to simply omit.

[@LucianC137]

''I am not a Stark'' - Jon Snow

[@MaXiTisMc]

Even fooler than a stark 😂

[@hahah351]

@@MaXiTisMc haha

[@ivanhunter6492]

Not born a stark, still gets betrayed

[@MaXiTisMc]

Ivan Hunter he’s still a stark by mother 😂

[@ForteExpresso]

Becoz He knows nothing Wants to know nothing Does not wish to explain

[@TrackerNeil]

I'm going to respectfully disagree regarding Rickard Karstark. It would have been irresponsible for Robb to promise that Jaime would be tried or executed at the war's end, because he might need Jaime as part of a deal to end that war. Karstark lost two sons to the Kingslayer, but lots of men lost sons, and brothers, and friends, and more. Do they get to place demands on the King in the North? No, a grieving father's thirst for revenge does not trump all other considerations, and Robb was wise enough to know this. Robb made many mistakes--accepting the kingship foremost among them--but denying Lord Rickard was not one of them.

[@scottyg400]

Jons problem is that HE KNOWS NOTHING!!! lol

[@primeone8913]

Jon survived death

[@RhenAye]

He did not "survived" death. He was resurrected lol there's a big difference.

[@steelbear2063]

No difference for those whose asses got handed to them by Jon

[@HsienKoMeiLingFormerYANG]

Are you saying son of seven god know nothing?

[@blessingadeleke3944]

Дмитрий Попов b

[@4tech404]

If I were Robb I would let the Karstarks cut Jaime's hand and send it to Cersei : "A hand from your lover for my father death, the hand of the King. If you lay a finger on my sisters, you will get more boxes with more of ser Jaime. " That would have solved the problem with the Karstarks who would have the satisfaction of removing the only thing that Jaime is pround of : his great skill in sword fight. At least it would have made it way more difficult for the Boltons to rebel.

[@GP.Records]

true, because if they revolt they provoke more Jaime dismemberment - something Tywin cannot afford

[@YardenAkin]

There is a solid chance that the Karstarks won't be satisfied, also Lady Catelyn wouldn't stand for it. Besides, such dismemberment guess against the Stark moral code

[@ilovenycrp]

Really?but then the Lannisters would've retaliated by sending bits and pieces of both arya and sansa.Even though Arya had gotten away the Starks firmly believed that they got both Stark girls.That's pretty much the reason why Catelyn was eager for an exchange cause she knew they've got more to lose.I don't really think this would fixed anything other than giving the Karstark the satisfaction of dismembering Jaime.They'd probably end up killing each other's prisoners rather than reaching a compromise.

[@4tech404]

+Jeremy Alison Sansa and Arya are seen with little to none importance while Jaime was the only male child of Tywin who can rule Westerlands (Tyrion would never be the hier in the eyes of Tywin). We know he would have done about anything to keep him alive and he wanted him to rule after his death. Tyrion would never let Cersei do anything bad to Sansa, (Arya was not prisoner so she was safe) because if they dared to do it, Jaime could be killed or worse and that is the last thing Lannisters wanted. Sure, they would hurt Sansa , but seen what they did to her, I guess they did it anyway. Not to mention that even if Joffrey goes insane and kills Sansa, they would be doomed because then they would make Starks figure out they dont have Arya so no more leverage.

[@4tech404]

Yarden Akin No, it would not satisfy them but it would made them more calm. I think the Kastarks would love to see Jaime suffer more than to be killed in an instance. And yeah , Cat is a big problem and she fucked up politicaly and as a mother. That was Robb mistake by not sending her home .

[@denisejohnson4037]

1:39 He "used" to be in love with Catelynn? Id say that ship was still sailing strong

[@joseph-fernando-piano]

"Let me put it this way, have you ever heard of Ned Stark? Robb? Jon Snow?" "Yes." "Morons..."

[@aubreezily13]

This comment is golden. *Night of the Red Wedding* "Bye bye boys, have fun storming the wedding." "You think it will work?" "It will take a miracle."

[@cordels.1179]

"Your a good man, with a good heart....and its hard for a good man to be a king.."

[@ashwin007bond]

Can you do a video on Tywin? He was the most authoritative character in the show.

[@moralhazard8652]

yes, that would be great

[@tortelli2249]

I asked for Tywin a few weeks ago.

[@vianeyboruel504]

nice! I hope they listen to you.

[@hittingyouoverthehead]

That's a great idea! In my opinion, he was a really righteous person. His only flaw was that he didn't realize the usefulness of Tyrion and just what he could do. If he had been nice to Tyrion and stood by his side, Tywin would have been alive.

[@mennan884]

Was my favorite character

[@stephanielim5544]

In short, if it is in HP, it is why in every Hufflepuffs there should really be a slytherin ally, you give us your loyalty, and we'll make sure no one will touch a smidgen of your hair.

[@AllAhabNoMoby]

You forgot Sansa, betrayed by Littlefinger.

[@abdullahal-benali1602]

AllAhabNoMoby But she was the only Stark who learned from her family’s mistakes, and lured up Littlefinger cleverly and made him fall at the end.

[@thepenguingamer1181]

Abdullah Al-Ben Ali only in the show so far something could change in how he dies in the books

[@RoboEpic]

@@thepenguingamer1181 maybe

[@lukebashian5591]

Sansa defeating Littlefinger is the worst thing the show ever did

[@ashaadarin3934]

Luke Bashian yeah it made no sense. Sansa was not near smart enough to outsmart him. I wish they did better with her

[@WilliamCorpening]

Do you think Sansa has learned this lesson? I think her time spent with greedy, self-absorbed people like Cersei, Littlefinger (especially him) and Ramsay has taught her to play whatever role is necessary -- a psychological version of Arya. Thoughts?

[@TheSkepticalPanda]

William Corpening I think so. She's not a fighter, so she has to use her cunning to survive.

[@Shadow90Cvijetin]

She's maybe not clueless, but she's still a dumb girl who wants to be princess more than anything else. She's Cersei basically, with less psychological problems.

[@franciscomaia3299]

She takes time to learn.. But she learns.. (oh oh oh) :P

[@goddyfame3424]

Sansa is able to make moves behind the back of the people. That will be necesary to kill Cersei. While Jon focus on the Northern threat, Sansa will focus of Cersei, she has to because she know Cersei doesn't care about anyone but Cersei.

[@1daboi100]

William Corpening that's right, now the 3 surviving Starks have become the Judge (Sansa), the jury (Bran), and the executioner (Arya).

[@tomasoshuilleabhain9268]

The thing is most of the men who stabbed Jon wouldn't have listened to logic

[@PhyreI3ird]

If logic wouldn't work, logical application of fear might've then xP

[@properduction2586]

@@PhyreI3ird What about Olly ? What did Jon do for him ?

[@ZinfinityX]

That is something of a red herring. The point being addressed is that the Northerners are really invested in their own sense of justice. James 2:16, should a fat leader have an army of lean men, would it suit him to demand of them to offer up their scratch so that he remains well? Logic wasn't what the watchmen prized obviously, but it is also should be obvious to anyone the necessity to bear reason. Jon didn't even provide his men with reason to remain united on their own accord, considering that everything that they stood for up until this was shattered the moment a wildling walked through their gates. Imagine the impending threat to their livelihood from the other side of the wall once rumors spread that this known threat was even closer to their lands. It's a situation of Hell both above and below. Though maybe not a politician, as a leader Jon needed to give his men a cause to rally around. At a moment's notice any social contract can become misaligned and it's their hides on the line, not so much their sense of honor or duty. Alas, it would seem that the further north he went from home, the less aware he became about the leaders that ruled there. Hence the running gag "You know nothing"

[@inr9751]

Analog Signal Alright, but wasn’t it Thorne who let the wildlings pass through the gate? Everyone seem to forget that, for some reason.

[@ZinfinityX]

@@inr9751 You make a good point but there was that side convo with Janos about Jon's popularity. My guess is that he still had that aggrivating him in the back of his mind- like off all things Jon Know Nothing Snow is going to be my undoing?

[@dartagnan1954]

I’ve done Ned Stark mistake I told the enemy my plan they took it played me and now I’m drowning in resentment 🤦‍♂️

[@Rouge31]

I bet Sansa will be the one who get the throne at the end. She's become one of the smartest (meaning most experienced) character of the show. After everything she's been through she knows how vile her ennemies can be. And she totally deserve it. Although she's not my fav character, it's just observation.

[@venacava1588]

Excellent observation XD

[@gulagulasusu]

Close

[@Cissablack708]

This is exactly why Edward stark and Jon Snow do not want to be leaders. They don't want that power but it is thrust upon them with not much choice.

[@Cissablack708]

Estranged yea I know, auto correct is a bitch.

[@andrewwavington9025]

Johnlocked the impala yeah Ned grew up believing his elder brother Brandon would be king, being the leader of the North was king of thrown at him similar to Tomen

[@Sneakyturtle18]

@@andrewwavington9025 Well not a king but the lord and warden of the North

[@awaywiththefaeries9464]

In Jon's case he could have chosen to refuse, though.

[@tabaxi]

you should do a video about margaery tyrell and her manipulation skills

[@Maya-fc2to]

oh yes!!!

[@chiraggupta2645]

My fav character after Danerys and Jon. Seriosly 10/10 for her best player in Westeros shame she died or she should have been on the iron throne

[@shersyed3989]

@@chiraggupta2645 I don't think on the throne, I think beside it. She never wanted to appear big and powerful but rather innocent and gentle, and wanted to control the "big and powerful" from the backhand.

[@tkyk4893]

@@shersyed3989 She wanted prestige, for the most part

[@showhardoahmed2146]

There is a video

[@DepressionShaman]

Jon... Too much like his daddy. An excellent warrior, but no ability to read people. Sees the world as it should be, rather than how it really is.

[@ahamedjunaid01]

Jon prolly learnt the lesson after Daenerys

[@andrewross4685]

Ned isn’t his dad though....

[@TheLoozerDonkey]

"but not the ability to read people" The funny thing is that Jon in the books can actually read people with only a glance!

[@kaustubhlunawat7827]

@@TheLoozerDonkey He can't. Thought Jaime could be a King.

[@TheLoozerDonkey]

@@kaustubhlunawat7827 read the books, he can

[@pranakhan]

Plenty of wisdom in here. I would say Sansa may prove to be the exception here; one of the only Starks who not only has survived from their mistakes to learn from them, but also has discerned the valuable skills of some of the best (and worst) people around her. Really valuable video here, as always. Thanks

[@9822703]

nope

[@himaniarora4069]

Arya and Bran are smart too!

[@TheElbowofDoom]

I think your appraisal of the Starks is a bit too negative, and that you're missing the Northern Experience (TM). People in the North have to trust each other. The region is really desolately populated, and it is the only part of Westeros that has to deal with direct outside threats (Wildlings). As such, it seems reasonable to assume that the northerns just can't scheme as much - in that environment everybody *needs* to trust each other. This isn't fancypancy Highgarden or Sunspear. Just look at the way the Robb became king. He was loved. Look at his meetings with hos Lords - don't they strike you as a lot more informal than Tywins? Where would you find it easier to ask a question, or voice a dissenting opinion? There seems to be a less formality between the lords of the North, and more internal solidarity. If you're a schemer in such an environment, you'll get fucked over quickly. What such an environment does incentivice is instead adherence to common rules, justice, mutual respect (hence the Karstark dilemma) and fairness. Coming from a sparsely populated and very "naive" Scandinavian country I know what I'm talking about. ;) P.S. (The Boltons are fucked up, and really don't seem to conform to what I wrote above. The Northerners themselves have historically seen this). P.P.S. Which kind of leadership do you think is most likely to survive Winter? Littlefinger (with absolutely no proper powerbase of his own) or the Starks?

[@Rollacosta27]

Yeah, you can tell by what happened recently to Little Finger. He thought he was in his element, but that's where mistakes happen.

[@gretel654]

Yeah, it wasn't the Starks' fault that they got continuously betrayed; in the North, scheming and lying won't work. That's why the Stark men probably weren't able to adapt to how treacherous people can be.

[@newperve]

Scheming and lying still work. Nobles backstab all over Westeros not just in the South. Yes Robb's meeting was more informal than one held by Tywin Lannister, you know why? Because the other one was held by Tywin Lannister, who was not an informal guy. But formality isn't an invitation to betrayal, lots of people betray people in informal settings.

[@DanBrown96]

TheElbowofDoom. You're making the video's point though. The Starks code of honour only works in Winterfell amongst others who share that code. Yet it's Ned's honour that took him south amongst the vipers of Kings Landing and ultimately his death and the death of half his family. In the end, his honour was still his downfall.

[@deezee9629]

Michael Price Historically speaking scheming and ambition in the North has lead to ruin for the schemers due to the cohesion the entire nation has under their sovereign due to the enviroment. Case in point, the Greystarks and Karstarks. Both of these cadet branches have betrayed their country as a whole with the conception that they would force their own ends at the detriment of the nation as a whole. The Greystarks are extinct and the Karstarks are at the brink.

[@GarrettGSF]

The whole thing with Rob and the "problems" of honour becomes even more apparent in the books: In the books, Rob takes a castle of a lesser house allied to the Lannisters. When he receives the message of his brothers being killed, the young Lady comforts him and they sleep together despite Rob's commitment to the Freys. He marries that woman because of his sense primarily because of his sense of honour, those triggering the Red Wedding. In the show they changed it somewhat for some reason.

[@aoli8142]

BREAKING A PROMISE IS NOT HONOURABLE Frankly I don't like Robb's actions on that even if he did try to make up for it.

[@abraham2172]

Ned Stark was raised by Jon Arryn. His whole honor thing was learned from him.

[@johnsnow6952]

What many people fail to understand is that Ned's honor is not The North's honor. It was his surrogate father's - jon arryn. He spent most of his youth as his ward, there he learned and accepted his ways of doing things. If you go back in time you'll realize that The North is not that honroable at all, they can be pretty ruthless and cunning themselves.

[@bridgethammond7]

It's not that the Starks are stupid. Look at Arya and Sansa. They are both Starks and they are smart as hell has of season 6. But they live in the North. They have different codes, honors, and a way of life far different from the south and it's politics. Being honorable was their mistake. But that's it's. Ned telling Cersie wasn't a good idea. But, Ned would not have anymore children's blood on his hands like he felt he had During the sack of Kings Landing. Also, Ned did not want to trust littlefinger. It was Cat whom talked him into it. Just like she told Robb Walder Fray would never harm her. No one was dumber then Cat and she wasn't a born Stark. At the end of the day, being Smart won't always keep you from getting killed in Game of Thrones. Tywin was smart, yet he was murdered on his toilet. In a Song of Ice and Fire you will die either being a villain or a hero. But what matters is the legacy you leave behind. Ned, will always be remembered as honorable. While characters like Cersie will be remembered as evil monsters who people will be glad they are dead.

[@newperve]

Sansa is dumb as her mother and just as a manipulative. Arya is smart but even she is too direct at the start. "But, Ned would not have anymore children's blood on his hands like he felt he had During the sack of Kings Landing. " Yeah that worked out well, how many children are dead because of him. " Tywin was smart, yet he was murdered on his toilet. " Yes because he made the stupid mistake of underestimating Tyrion, who if anything is SMARTER than him, and siding with the stupidest of his relatives.

[@l.tc.5032]

Hell even if he had told her he could have used it as an advantage by blackmailing her into keeping his mouth shut.

[@yingyang2838]

Maybe it's just the Stark men then? 😂

[@yingyang2838]

Michael Price lmao after this season you're still going to go with Arya being smarter than Sansa? Arya's only talent is killing. Sansa has learnt so much and had some of the best character development. Sansa haters are so dense 😂🙄

[@Yuval012]

red stark no, Cat was the stupidest Stark. Sansa was stupid as fuck most of the show, and the only reason she "caught" Littlefinger and didn't let him manipulate him it's because of Bran, who can see everything, he saw his betreyal of Ned Stark and the other things.

[@saxongedriht1086]

You can say all you want about Ned, but he is a man of honor. That's all that matters to me.

[@newperve]

His honor demanded that he protect his family, he failed. He failed because he gave up on understanding people. When you decide to give up on your duty you have no honor.

[@newperve]

"The only reason why he failed was because he didn't know how evil Joffery or Cersi was." He got directly told "You win or you die" and then he just let Cersei do whatever she wanted before he made his move. That's not bout being evil that's about being SANE. When someone tells you he's going to arrest you for treason and declare your children products of treason you do what you can to put that guy in the ground. As soon as news gets out that the kids aren't Robert's they're dead. You know how he feels about potential threats to his rule.

[@newperve]

Oh and it was pretty clear how evil Joffery was to anyone paying attention. Which was something a smart guy would do. Even before he came North there was plenty of evidence he was was a pyscho. But Ned didn't bother having even the rudiments of an intelligence organization in the South.

[@adonis1168]

There is a thin line between honour and idiocy

[@Fletch55]

"Honor may save your personal endevours, but it will not save your countrymen."

[@Bersilus]

Honour. That's what makes me respect Ned. And also why our current society is in the gutters. People don't have honour

[@jakebutler9808]

"To defeat an enemy you must know them, not simply their battle tactics but their history their culture their art." Grand admiral thrawn

[@originalhgc]

In the case of John Snow's lack of communication on the return from Hardhomme, that's just a case of bad screenwriting, wherein a character inexplicably fails to say the the most obvious thing so that the plot can be served by miscommunication.

[@JohnBainbridge0]

You're right. Especially about Jon. Episode 7 of Season 6 is a perfect example. When he's trying to build his army, what does he say? "Stark... Duty... Winterfell...Honour..." That's all what he wants and nobody cares, but he has the biggest trump card in the game and he's not using it. All Jon needs here are a few words: "Winter is here. The dead walk again. You can join us, or you will join them." And Jon is also clearly a moron. Davos mentions the dead and - BAM! - instant ally, but Jon apparently didn't notice that, because he never tried that approach himself. Jon Snow really does know nothing.

[@HxH2011DRA]

Exactly! Davos literally showed him how to do it and he STILL doesn't use that card

[@weed3728]

SPOILER.... Jon is an idiot in the battle of the bastards Sansa told Jon not to fall for Ramsey's trap & what does Jon do ? falls for Ramsey's trap... Sansa even told him that they weren't never going to get Rickon back alive because he was the greatest threat to his claim on winterfell so jon falls for this trap thousands of men died even the last giant fucking died because Jon Is not playing the game good Shit Jon almost got trampled to death at this point Sansa is adapting little fingers ways I think she fails to rememeber that Petyr betrayed her Father I love the Starks but if there going to make a comeback they have to play the game better

[@Gloriankithsanus]

So, if I join him, I'll die for someone who isn't even a stark, who is fighting for a woman, to get a castle I didn't give a shit about for years already probably. ANd afterwards I still become a whitewalker, cuz Jon's army's too weak. In that case I'd bet my money on ramsay. I actually know that he won a siege before and his "dad" was killed by poison from his enemys. Besides that, he got the larger army. So I might just as well join HIM, he's going to win even harder afterwards. So, cleary that isn't the trump card you're thinking it'd be. It's a good and valid point, but there's still too much disadvantage on Jon's side to actually join him. In my opinion, it was rather clever going for the "justice, honour, Winterfell, Duty" arguments, because that is the only logical thing he can demand of those people. THere's no reason to join him at this war at all, but those. And if you think about the Bear-Island allegiance, her final words were somethin like "We fought for the starks and were loyal to them for thousands of years... And we won't break loyality today." There wasn't even a single word about the dead. It cleary had it's impact, won't fight that, but in the end she decided to join them because of their "ancient" relations, not because she's threatened by thinking about the white walkers.

[@brandonreed09]

+Gloriankithsanus Then you would be dead right now. You played the game and lost.

[@BigBad-Wolf]

And who would believe him anyway? Lyanna Mormont is a child of ten and Lord Commander before Jon was her uncle.

[@corwinstark6095]

Never in my life have I need something so much, and never known until I had watched it.

[@AnimatedLessons]

Jon is able to convince his enemies to be on his side. He's done it with the wildlings, more specifically Tormund, a man he betrayed. Alliser, is just one of those enemies who would never listen to any reason. Even Stannis, a man so rigid with duty and honour, knew it was useful to have the wildling's get past the wall. He even gave Jon his ships to make this process possible.

[@Imnospy]

This analysis is so pointless. Everyone in this setting gets betrayed. Everyone.

[@ronalda6658]

An analysis? Where was the analysis? This was just filler for 11 mins. There's only one message here, which is that the Starks decided it was better to be "honorable" than reasonable. One of them carelessly went against the fucking crown without properly checking his allies, one of them never properly communicated with his commanders and decided to behead one for killing two useless hostages (especially when his mother just released the fucking Kingslayer), and one of them broke nearly every single Night's Watch vow and never explained the utilitarian purposes of bringing in the wildlings even though he saw first hand the traumatizing experiences some Northerners have had with them (like Olly, whom the internet hates because that's trendy). I thought there might be some symbolic shit I missed, turns out I was wrong.

[@snoopffy]

yeah this video is... very pointless.

[@jhauptmann9850]

And yet most of the Starks were not honorable at all. Ned lied about killing the great swordsman, he betrayed his oath to his king and went to war with him, yet expects his vastles not to do the same or he will kill them. Killed a guy who left the wall to help his family and thus breaking his oath.. Again the same thing Ned did with his king. Robbert betrays pretty much everyone around him, all the time, unending. Only the Bastard Stark really holds to honor.

[@ronalda6658]

Ned never lied about killing Arthur Dayne. He has repeatedly told everyone about how Howland Reed saved his life that day, just never said how. Bran was shocked too see the manner in which it happened. Besides, it was 7 vs 3, anyways, so anyone can logically assume Dayne was outnumbered and defeated unfairly. Robb never betrayed anyone, he's a poor judge of character. Even him marrying Talisa could've been inconsequential if he just had the patience to not behead Karstark and fucking took Casterly Rock. Then a real ransom for the North would've happened.

[@jhauptmann9850]

Bran said that Ned claimed to have killed him. Robb never betrayed anyone? Hay I will marry your daughter if you.. Ahh I am through? Fuck that bitch and here dad, I am marrying this hottie.. Ofcourse I expect my underling to take the hit and marry one because I did not. Also what happened with the Karstarks was betrayal. Not allowing him to gain vengeance for a slain family member.. You know the whole reason they are marching south, because of a slain family member.. is a betrayal. And then beheading karstark ofcourse.

[@TheStarcraftJACKAL]

Partially in old Ned's defense, I think he's been duped just like us viewers/readers from the start. First: the setting of the Small Council meeting, when the players were introduced - Ned immediately took dislike to Varys because he was eunuch, hated the way he smelled, how he "prayed for the Prince's swift recovery". Second: Littlefinger, while already having an established antipathy with the Stark men, seemed to contribute quite a lot to Ned's investigation of Jon Arryn's death and search for King _Bob's_ bastards. Third: Ned assumed that Littlefinger would honor his end of the bargain because of the "mutual trust" between them and Catelyn. I admit: when I first watched the show, all wide-eyed, I even urged Ned to go along with Littlefinger's plan. However, none can argue that Ned confronting Cersei and giving her time to react was the absolute stupidest thing he could've done, just as much as Rob trusting Walder Frey. Jon, on the other hand, has made effort to convince his Night's Watch brothers to accommodate the wildlings, and for many times he has proven himself to the Watch. He did not expect for all the things he's done, they would have trusted him more, but alas. Naive, yes - stupid, no.

[@riyazuo]

Me too, and also reading the books, at first I believed Littlefinger was on the Stark's side.

[@MoffatLee]

The Starks don't fail because they are stupid, they fail because of a combination of them making some poor decisions and Martin writing a plot that has lots of contrivances for the sake of making the Starks lose. The problem is that people call this great writing because the 'good guys' (Starks) aren't having plot convenience going their way when the reality is that plot convenience for the bad guys (as is the case in ASOIAF) is still just as bad in terms of writing quality. I mean seriously, Robb only marries Westerling because he sleeps with her because he happens to get wounded at the Crag and happens to hear about Bran and Rickon dying at Winterfell and this only happens (but not really) because they escaped from Theon who happens to take Winterfell with 30 men because the Stark bannermen happen to be dumb enough to send over 500 soldiers to protect Torhen's Square from a force of 200 and leave about 10 guys to protect Winterfell, this only happens because Balon Greyjoy happens to be stupid enough to think that it's a smart idea to try to conquer the North without even making demands of Tywin before doing so instead of the smart call of striking at the vulnerable (and wealthier and easier to conquer) Westerlands. Meanwhile, Bran survives his fall and happens to forget who pushed him and Joffrey happens to be dumb enough to give a footpad a valyrian steel knife for attempting to kill Bran. Catelyn happens to be dumb enough to believe that Tyrion would give his own weapon to a footpad as payment instead of coin and then she happens to encounter Tyrion on the road and happens to be dumb enough to take him to the Vale instead of King's Landing. She also happens to not inform Ned about the exact reasons why she suspects Tyrion. Meanwhile, Sansa happens to be the most naive person in all of Westeros, she happens to be dumb enough to ignore proof of Lannister cruelty and treachery when Joffrey bullies and lies and Cersei supports him and Lady is unjustly killed, she happens to continue trusting them when her own father was severely wounded by another Lannister and she happens to not find out that Littlefinger betrayed Ned and thus is not worth trusting at all. How about another, Robb Stark comes up with a plan to lure Tywin into an ambush in the westerlands, he happens to forget to tell Edmure that while he should defend Riverrun he should also let Tywin head to the westerlands so Edmure naturally decides to protect Robb's supply lines and his rear from Tywin's approaching forces since he has no reason to believe that Robb is aware of Tywin's approach. This happens to lead to Tywin arriving back at Harrenhal just in time to become aware of events in King's Landing so he happens to join up with the Tyrells who happen to be able to form an alliance with the Lannisters because Renly happened to die at just the right time to allow for such an alliance and Renly just happened to be unwilling to consummate his marriage with a bedding. And thus the Lannister/Tyrell alliance happens to fall upon Stannis at just the right time when any other scenario (such as Tywin arriving without the Tyrells or vice versa) would lead to Robb's strategic position becoming much stronger as his various enemies would have done far more damage to the Lannisters' strategic position. Not to mention the various other contrivances with regards to Catelyn deciding to trust Jaime of all people to keep to his word, various Northern families happening to lose key figures leading to far more future chaos that other factions seem to be practically immune to, the Boltons intentionally bleeding the other vassals of their manpower with noone getting suspicious of these incredible coincidences and so on and so forth. And these are just a few examples, the frustrating thing is that many of these problems are fairly easily fixed and having a few coincidences isn't so bad but instead we end up with a plot that has far too many contrivances and yet is praised because the contrivances are used to punish those stupid, naive Starks. What's more frustrating is that Martin has proven that he is capable of some great writing, especially in terms of world building and fully realised characters but it's a shame that he fails so miserably when it comes to these plot elements.

[@chasm671]

A lot of the things you say just "happen" are actually the result of specific decisions indicating the same character failings that the video is pointing out.

[@thegreekdeal4747]

Your comment was too long but in the first 2 paragraphs you misunderstood a lot of things that you say just happened.

[@azizt4322]

Ned died because of the difference between the north and the south the nothern men are men of honor unlike the southern men who are.... Bloody back stabbing bastards and that's why the starks die when they march south (not including John)

[@fabacarini]

Aziz T the Boltons are northern

[@milestrollokopolous8842]

^ beat me to it

[@nhmooytis7058]

Aziz T Bolton was North and a backstabbing bastard.

[@user-mh9dx7nz2r]

Bolton and Karstarks.

[@DoubleO88]

I think Jon not telling the Nights Watch about the White Walkers is just poor writing on D&D's part rather than Jon's character flaw. Something very different happens in the book that causes Jon's death.

[@hollawar1391]

DoubleO88 what happens?

[@buckbuck8319]

He took the wrong persons chocolate pudding cup.

[@becauseisaidso92]

buck buck best comment hahahah

[@jedimasters1462]

Jon could have told the same story a thousand times and it wouldn't have helped. People like Throne wouldn't believe it until they saw it themselves. Nor would Throne believe it because it was coming from Jon. Jon should have just taken Throne to Hardhome to see it, but then Jon needed to die to get out of the Night's Watch and fulfill his destiny and possibly take the throne. 🤔

[@gromm93]

Nope. It's *definitely* Jon's character flaw. Otherwise, why would other, more competent leaders be written so well? Same writers, different characters.

[@Abylaikhan90]

You should do a video about Olenna Tyrell. A perfect example of reactive leadership.

[@tywinlannister-videoeditor5057]

One single character whos skills could possibly match Tywin's is Olenna Tyrell. And she has a killer-instinct like he did.

[@Retrochick330]

Sansa learns from her mistakes and misfortunes as she grows and becomes an incredibly shrewd and effective leader. You should do a video about her.

[@datubangkas9908]

I think it would be really great if you did a video on the positives of how Starks lead. How they inspire loyalty and respect, and not through fear and manipulation like most characters in the show.

[@codebreakerowns]

Bro, a great breakdown on charisma would be Harvey Spector from Suits.

[@dddoogg1]

I second that!

[@lockettcallum]

Defiantly

[@idcaf]

Hell yeah

[@xXxBurnerable]

omg please

[@eduardofreudenthal824]

you go up up and away

[@yourmom9200]

Robb was the biggest idiot in this show. First he cuts off Karstag's head being fully aware half of the army belongs to him which implicitly means they would leave. So who does he turn to for filling in those numbers? The one person he broke an important promise and sacred vow to without ever thinking he may be vengeful about it in the end.

[@sebastiandiego5905]

Robb actually has to kill Rickard Karstark because he disobeyed and brought dishonor to the him by killing Lannister captives. There has to be consequences and he has little to do because if he does nothing, it'll set a dangerous precedent in which his other banner men will see that they can do whatever they want with little to no consequences (and the fact that he is a kid of 16 years). He has to do this because it is set deep within the culture of the people of the north.

[@Purple_Cast]

Andrew Markus honestly the only thing robb did wrong was kill Karstark. He should have listened to Edmure's advice and imprisoned him, so the bannerman would stay as collateral. If he didnt kill him, he wouldnt have to go back to the Frey's. the Frey's and Bolton's were already sided with the Lannister's before the red wedding, so they would have to find another plan to assassinate robb which could be more scarier for them. Also Robb's higher up's were more stupid than him, Edmure should have held back for the Mountain. That would have been a strategic position

[@someguy315]

Andrew Markus Robb is honour bound so what do you expect

[@stevenacorn4596]

Karstag lol. Someone has been playing too much Skyrim.

[@jhdivina]

PurpleCast Media he had to kill karstark. Remember that karstark already mocked robb of not properly punishing traitors (like his mother). I think he said something along the lines of "he wants to scold me before he frees me. That's how he deals with treason". If he let something like that go, it would mean that the northern king has little pride in himself.

[@Nvd1987]

My dad taught me how to be honorable and I try to live by similar principles and I gotta be honest, I face similar problems in every day life. It's almost crippling tbh because I just can't think outside of it.

[@emmanueljr]

6:30, I actually support was Rob did. His commanders are supposed to do exactly as he says without question. The Art of War states that a commander shouldn't tell his generals everything about the war plan just incase...

[@ivantorres641]

but the generals should know the objective of the mission, which is to take the mountain to the east, but Edmure did not know what the objective was in the first place so he could not adapt to the situation, flexibility and adaptation is something that the more powerful armies have shared. The mountain would burn down towns under Edmure's protection and could attack supply lines which could leave him in a bad spot if he didn't act.

[@jefthabisschop238]

They just don't know how to play the game of thrones

[@Sarahmint]

But Sansa does

[@user-zb8tq5pr4x]

because they are the only ones who dont want the throne

[@Kinos141]

Eventually. And she was helped by the ones who do know how to play, i.e Little Finger and Tyrion.

[@Redeemer216]

They don't care about the game of thrones. They care about what is right, and that gets them killed.

[@chileanyways9178]

because they don’t care about the throne

[@sharperguy]

So the question is: why do we like and route for the starks so much?

[@EffiongUmoetok]

They are honorable

[@TheYvesL]

*root* not *route* hehe; Because they're both good hearted and have been harmed by other dishonest people. We just wanna see the good guys win and injustices made right, pretty simple.

[@IMatchoNation]

Because they have clear and rigid principles and simple loyalties; they're what a lot of us think we should aspire to be. Instead this show is hellbent on showing why flexibility, moral grays and deceit can accomplish things simple honesty cannot.

[@chabosmulm]

honor

[@michaelr.7547]

Because the first seasons established them as the main characters. The very first scenes were them playing together at Winterfell. Since that was the first characters we became attached to, our bond to them is strongest.

[@janellejulianajoy]

I look at this video and it's mind boggling that fans thought Sansa should've trusted Daenerys. Like, why should she? She knew he bent the knee out of love, not necessity.

[@MastersDefender]

Jon never really changes even after he became King in the North. Anyone ever noticed in S7 that when he gathers the other lords for a meeting, he refuses the other lords' suggestions (such as about Umbers and Karstarks, going to Dragonstone, etc) and the meetings are always about something that he already decides? He doesn't change, he only lets people know what he thinks and why they need to follow him rather than what they think and why their suggestions might be important for him and his people.

[@oliviamacarthur18]

Can you do a littlefinger video? He is an extremely clever and tactical character

[@mikejia1]

He's not very charismatic though, nobody in the series actually likes him.

[@SneakCritical]

+Mike Jia That is his chief weakness.

[@SkyKing8707]

he's almost like walder frey. he chooses the winning side in the middle of a chaos. the difference is that he creates the chaos

[@Flashbreat]

Lol my friends and me love him

[@stranieb]

omg yes this pleease, Littlefinger is my other favorite characters

[@dariusjackson5876]

The reason Jon needs to listen to Sansa.

[@lu4212]

Darius Jackson but he s not lol, he s gonna die again I reckon

[@klarityjoe7413]

"you know nothing Jon Snow"...summarized!

[@9822703]

how would sansa know any of this. her information would com from the lannisters, Boltons or Littlefinger. she isn't smart

[@urdaddy8801]

@@9822703 bruh stop finding half arsed excuses to continue to hate on her 💀

[@theautomator8372]

@@urdaddy8801 I mostly dislike her because she gave up on rickon so quickly. And that she constantly argued with jon for like 3 seasons. And that she told arya she wouldn't survive what she went through. Like has she even met arya? Oh and the fact she snitched on jon after promising to not reveal his true heritage in front of the godswood which is sacred ground in the north.

[@sammythebeliever9916]

Step 1 to winning the Game of Thrones: Don't lose your head.

[@demonwolf570]

What about The Queen of Thorns? Damn, she died like a boss.

[@irams8486]

That's what Sansa been trying to say! She's the clever one (or will be)

[@Joe.2599]

Rickon was betrayed by the Umbers aswell lol

[@niklasstahl98]

Well...he was a little child when given to them, he had no other choice than to trust them.

[@Joe.2599]

+Niklas Stahl yeah, kinda annoying as they hammer in the whole "the north remembers" thing, then has the Stark loyalists betray the Starks

[@redxsage]

+Joseph Haynes -- Well, the North Remembers that those frickin' BOLTONS are frellin' _INSANE_ too... If I remember correctly, it was Ned's Father that forced those fools to STOP actually flaying people that they captured. Part of the reason why most of the North was behind the Starks, all the way. Knowing they could trust them to keep those damned BOLTONS in line helped a whole bunch.

[@SyRyanYang]

Probably the houses collectively had an amnesia; poisoned by their enemies, needless to say.

[@ghostjager8190]

+Joseph Haynes Its a TV show twist, i mean look how even more unloyal to the books since GRR martin left the show

[@Ty-bh1yo]

I think Littlefinger purposely waited until almost all the stark men were slaughtered, this way the majority of the troops at Winterfell are Knights of the Vale. This would give him more power in the north especially once he tries to hook up with Sansa. Peter knows how to play the game all too well.

[@ashton1860]

clever thought. that's a pretty ballsy gambit on littlefinger's part, though.

[@ngoctuinh1342]

But it hinges on his tie with Robin Arryn, because the Vale lords like Bronze Yohn Royce don't like him. Now if Sansa's tie to Robin Arryn is stronger, or if Sansa exposes LF to Yohn then Little Finger will have quite a fire to put out.

[@DethPenguin]

I think Sansa did, too. The less men following Jon the easier it is for her to claim the North for herself, rather than have Jon declared Lord of Winterfell or King in the North.

[@ashton1860]

Huh. I don't know if Sansa is that cutthroat. Plus I'm pretty sure Jon supports Sansa's claim as Queen in the North.

[@huntersw2]

Of course she does. But after being played for so long she does not fully trust john. Thus, not telling him weakening their position. And little things like that makes the show watered down. He did nothing but help her.

[@anjumanshimul8018]

It's not survival that matters to the Starks,it’s survival with honour.They will always do what they think is right,no matter the price they have to pay. Sometimes it’s a Gift and sometimes It's a honour.

[@apurvatikekarpatkar9479]

Robb and Catelyn made choices to save their own family while completely disregarding the fact that his bannermen loved their family too..

[@TheHipClip]

Justice and Integrity are nothing without the power to back them up.

[@HxH2011DRA]

Truer words

[@cerii5943]

The best thing i have heard for a long time.

[@dunnowy123]

Too many people think in terms of moral codes and vague notions of right and wrong, without realizing none of it matters without power.

[@ManBearPiglet]

Still, the flame of virtue must be kept alive in all people. Power without virtue just leads to evil and corruption.

[@Kinos141]

You speak truth, baby.

[@frankmiller721]

Jon did tell what he saw at Hardhome. "He raised his hands, and they all stood up at once".

[@randoguy5767]

I put in my book of thoughts, also known as my diary, like 59 years ago, that loyalty is the first step in creating your own demise.

[@logansmith2703]

In fairness Jon seems to have learned from his mistakes. You know since he's alive again.

[@GoldenRose116]

- refusing to listen to what anyone says in the north - attack in ramsay, completly dropping his plans - decided to postpone getting on the dragon resulted in his uncle getting killed. Honestly the only reason he hasn't been betrayed yet and removed as king is because of Sansa.

[@lu4212]

Logan smith are you mad, in season 7 he s making all the mistakes even worse than last time