Cheap Fake Knock-Off Archery Riser | Mythbusting and Breaking This Riser

[@markseljan]

I am an industrial designer myself and it was one of the greatest in depth validation process of a product. Thank you for caring and sharing it. I think people may get how much goes into a product knowledgewise and care. This is a fail, but the video is an excellent piece from a-z.

[@JakeKaminskiArchery]

Thanks! I do try to present things based on real data!

[@piangfuann]

Archery has always been something I wanted to do since I was 15 years old. It is a sport of luxury in Thailand. The fields are far, equipment are expensive. It took me 16 years of dreaming about doing archery to be able to do it. It was worth the wait! I also resonate with you about being not coming from wealth. I am a scholarship kid (full ride from Highschool to my Ph.D). I had to choose between textbooks and other fun stuff on a 750 dollars stipend per semester (my mum is a single parent. We had to borrow money to pay for my visa to the states) I went to Clark University for my undergraduate degree. MA is great but also a slight expensive (even back in 2009). Thanks to my Ph.D studentship and sudden illness, archery is on the cards again for me. Now it’s two years doing archery. I made it to win the National Disability Championships in England this year. It was epic. As an autistic person, archery has been the one thing that is saving me from burning out from my Ph.D. I also watch your video in between my thesis writing. Just want to say thanks for opening up and share your story. You had definitely helped my archery career :)

[@mozu305]

As an autistic person myself, archery has been very important to my mental health. I also agree the work Jake has done has been important in my archery journey. His story resonates with me as well. (And congratulations on your win.)

[@Man_fay_the_Bru]

Good for you mate👍

[@esnevip]

You do your utmost diligence to not mislead the viewer, and treat the viewer with respect, and it speaks volumes to your own dignity and values. The audiences trust is earned, and you have certainly earned mine. 🎯

[@cavetroll]

I absolutely second that!

[@Voxguitarsrock]

100%

[@space.youtube]

Are you absolutely sure about that? Take a close look at the limb bolt at 55:38 It looks a lot like it was only in 3 turns max. Did he show his assembly of the bow? Did you see him screw the limb bolts in "5 turns"? Did he use scales to show draw weight at point of failure? I didn't, and I'm not convinced he's being 100% truthful. If I wanted to engineer a bow limb bolt failure like this one, I'd do it just like Jake did.

[@rafaelantoniocanillas9513]

After watching this video it all just boils down that Jake is passionate enough to always consider the archer and not the bow first. Genuinely, archery is a sport built upon a historical weapon prone to numerous dangers and hazards not only to others but most importantly the archer himself. Regardless of whether or not the TBow series of recurve risers are working for some and not for others, Jake cares enough that we should always consider that equipment no matter how good or quality they are, is always prone to said dangers and stuff. Essentially Jake only cares for us , nothing more and nothing less

[@kurtmeister8308]

Very detailed. Very honest. Ok, just plain fun to watch the bow self destruct. That all said, your dedication to integrity is very clear and much appreciated. As an archer that has learned from you, bought your books and shirts, I really appreciate what you do for us. I'm an instinctive shooter, a hunter. Your messaging on form, technique, physical conditioning, and general health have been very helpful. Thank you.

[@paulegerton2012]

It seems obvious to me that you act with integrity and that you greatly value people's belief in your honesty and knowledge. Keep up all your good work especially your barebow tutorials, they are really helpful

[@chrisbowman2030]

I always appreciated the honesty in your videos! You're a good person and one of the best archery related KZbinrs ever. Best regards from a German viewer.

[@johnd7215]

I'm really glad to have found this video. Jake, i think you did a fantastic followup job on the last video. The part about your upbringing and how you got into archery was very heart felt and honest it seemed. I really thank you for sharing all that. I have come away with a whole different perspective on these knockoff risers too. You make a ton of sense.

[@janickgonzalez8900]

What I love most about this channel is your honesty; not like others who do pledge allegiance to companies and rather be biased than objective...and I feel you Jake; "when people have nothing they can get from you is when you know if they were there for you, or for what you could give them".

[@brettellis423]

Excellent work, Jake!!! Some of the crap getting around in archery is simply disgusting business.

[@alanthompson1309]

Thank you so much for your honesty and integrity Jake. I am a low-level coach and I often use your videos to help archers in my club. I refer them to your channel anytime I can.

[@leductuanmail]

The slow motion is so dramatic and on point, the production quality of this video is off the chart LOL

[@Derek_C]

Thanks Jake, you'll remember helping me discover if your precision limb bolts would work on my SF Ascent riser. They did and still do - rest assured that you and your knowledge that you share are appreciated, very much. I know integrity when I see it. Best Regards, Derek

[@JakeKaminskiArchery]

Much appreciated! Thanks for your support and the Super Thanks!

[@waynestevenson9613]

Thanks for standing tall! Thanks for exposing the garbage that’s being pushed on others by greed.

[@InFerrumVeritas]

It is worth noting that not everything Hoyt makes is made in the USA. But the things that aren’t are clearly labeled as such. An example of that are the Xceed barebow weights, which do say “Made in China” on the package. I believe their grips are made overseas as well. But their risers and limbs are made in Utah.

[@darrenbowers3267]

I stand up and applaud you Sir for telling the truth and being honest in you channel and standing up for what's right. Keep up the good work. Darren

[@shaiqureshi2079]

You're a legend in the community, and will always be held in the highest regard!

[@digitaldogs233]

Thanks, youre honesty is what makes this channel. Im learning, not got into ilf bows yet but this certainly was an eye opener. Im not wealthy at all, and do want to get into competition even at 52 i believe i can achieve this. I live in uk and the shop i use do sell quote "loved bows" so no doubts my first competitive bow will be a second hand one. But i trust the supplier, I brought my samick sage from him and i absolutely love that bow..my course should start very soon, and cant wait to shoot a bow with a coach who regularly shoots herself. Ive learned so much from you, but there comes a time where a real life coach has to come in and perfect what you think you know.

[@JakeKaminskiArchery]

Thanks for the SuperThanks, Good luck!

[@RainLaw]

I really appreciate this video. So I just so happen to have ordered this riser just before you posted the 1st video. I requested they cancel the order, but they said it had already been posted. It did arrive and I have rejected the signature so it's on its way back to them. Fingers crossed there's no hassle with the refund. I paid by PayPal so hopefully if there is an issue there I'm covered. I really feel like I've dodged a bullet there, so thank you very much!

[@michaellacy8510]

I’ve had a bow blow up on me. Believe me you don’t want that experience. Thanks for the heads up!

[@tksax6145]

I started with Kinetic Stylized and Galaxy Silver Star Limbs for my first bow 5 years ago. The total package was under $450. The Riser was $250. It could have been a little cheaper if I had gone with the Bronze Silver Stars. My daughter got a bow 6 months before me, it was a MyBo Rio SuperCast, with Bronze Siver Stars and it was under $300 for the setup The Riser was 179. I shot mine up until 2 months ago when I bought a used Hoyt Xceed from another person in our club. My wife is shooting my daughter's bow as her own. We have quite a few entry-level MyBos and Kinetics in our clubs that are less than that TBow, so the price argument does not fly when it comes to buying this.

[@user-tw9io9nz2m]

Something that worries me is that the shape of this bow was designed for billet machining with the specific mechanical properties of extruded billet material. Taking that design and applying a completely different manufacturing process to it like casting can have unexpected results. I’m not convinced this company went through the engineering to validate the casting process for this riser design

[@inbreakabel]

being honest and upright in one's way is something you dont often Seen ! Thanks you for it Jake really !

[@rzjzimmers]

Thanks for the detailed information about this riser. A great example of how knockoffs are not harmless and we have alternatives.

[@tomoyork8393]

I watched the response video from another youtuber and I'm guessing that's what boiled your pi§§. Great response and I hope his customers think about where they buy their gear and the quality of advice they are getting. Keep up the great work!

[@maxschell8823]

100%. Saw the same "other" video. I thought it was poorly done, and certainly NOT as thorough as Jake's video.

[@sierraridgereaper]

What is the other youtuber video, would like to see it.

[@lexindigital]

Make a KZbin Short of the bow coming apart with a bit of explanation to it. Will help you get exposure in an easy go digest 30sec video or so. Thanks for sharing

[@esnevip]

I genuinely believe you are the right logical level-headed person to be doing all this Jake.

[@ColoursOfDan02]

I unfortunately bought a Tbow H7 (xceed rip off) after hearing a lot of good things, it had the same limb bolt wobble not quite as bad as this bow but it was enough not to feel safe. The limb bolt locks were just smashed studs that formed a hex and one of them wouldn't lock which also meant it rattled. It was obvious the quality was junk, quick inspection it seemed fine but after sitting with it for 30 minutes it had a lot of flaws. Luckily I got to return it and bought a real bow.

[@chaseus27]

Thank you for your honest and ethical opinion. Great to be able to speak up and call out stuff that can cause serious injury. Love your work Jake 👍

[@xiaobaozha]

The best…or worst example from TBOW recently is their knock-off of the Border Tempest, not least as it is cast rather than CNC (and I’ve seen the machinery making the Tempest in Scotland, when I visited Border while waiting for my riser to be finished). There are other small but very telling differences between the real one and the knockoff that indicate they didn’t understand some of the design concepts and engineering behind the Tempest. Trust is everything. Thank you for your continued contribution to Archery.

[@Ezzie0304]

Yes. The riser has a so distinct design, it is no coincidence. I saved up for a real Tempest, and I would never consider buying the knock-off, not to save money. Rather buy used, which I ended up doing.

[@elobiretv]

I have read on the Border facebook owners page that a few of those clones ended up breaking because the design isn't suitable for the worse material it's made from.

[@ColoursOfDan02]

My Dad bought one of those border tempest knock offs and the thing was horrible to shoot, was loud, heavy hand shock and just meh in most aspects. Glad he sold it and moved on to a budget riser from a legit brand. Sad people are buying these knock off bows and probably not having much fun. Archery is awesome and it can be expensive but budget brands exist that do RnD and produce good stuff.

[@Hybridesque]

I visited Border Bows to understand why the Tempest the way it was. Glad I did.

[@Lost_Hwasal]

@@Ezzie0304 Thats unfortunate, Sid treats his customers pretty poorly in my experience.

[@ujjawal..720]

One and only channel that I like

[@maxschell8823]

Yes. The problem is that there are many people posting archery information on KZbin. I have no idea what their qualifications are. The local archery dealer here, that primarily sells, repairs, rebuilds compound bows, says he spends time explaining to customers why the KZbin they watched was either wrong, incomplete or misleading.

[@ivanstankovic342]

Jake you are the best! Best content, no BS... we just need those backyard champ t shirts :)

[@faizala4921]

Hi. I'm from Malaysia. Your channel pop up since I'm looking information about archery. My 10 yrs son have started learning archery about 1 yr ago. Your casual and deep explanations have some how made me understand what my son coach has been explaining. I hope with your explanation, I can assist him (will try my best 😅). Definitely will be watching other video too.

[@justinmartin8637]

I appreciate the helmet but you exposed your neck, my toes were curling. The lower limb looked like it was waving goodbye to the tiller bolt LOL

[@philscott9834]

Hat off to you Jake. I respect the information and insights to archery you provide to the archery community. World wide. Your channel has taught me A LOT and I’m grateful for every video you post. Keep doing what you’re doing, for as long as you enjoy doing it. From an Aussie down under.

[@thisoldrelic]

Wow, that was an amazing video. I think the bolt mechanics overview was really helpful to a lot of people. It was me.

[@kiktkikt2863]

It’s your knowledge and your honesty that inspired me to try archery ten weeks ago. I am very grateful for your advice. I am now able to pay for a few classes at my local facilities and use their equipment.when I come back from a long overdue trip I will be buying a beginner bow and if I find a used one then all the better. At my first trip to the range I did pretty good thanks to your videos .thanks again

[@deanoboldone]

soooo glad you did this vid man, hopefully this reaches ALL new archers. and the same applies for arrows... you only get what you pay for! there are some happy mediums but i will always go for quality first.

[@brianmuller1737]

Im a Big fan of your Channel.. learning so much From you. Keep on the good work. .. From Denmark 😊🇩🇰🏹

[@marcoengelbracht4141]

About a year ago I bought an old Bear Grizzly from classifieds which was shown strung and standing in the garage. Besides the dust I was able to see the scratches already on the photo. I did ask the seller if it had been strung all the time (the string was already coming apart, strands where already broken) and she confirmed that. As of the incredible price (our market price here (Germany) for a 50 year old Bear Grizzly) I took the risk and bought it. I thorougly cleaned it, gave it a new Bear Hair rest and new string. Still a hell of a lot of scratches, deep scratches... Measured it: Had still the 55# it was marked with, shoots like a dream. Get yourself a quality used product if you cannot afford the new ones. Stay away from the knock offs, they are not worth it!

[@-fazik-3713]

But, but the other guy from the other channel, who coincidentally sells those, said it was ok. He even wore a helmet for science! Good Job Jake!

[@maxschell8823]

Some of that was tongue in cheek. Some of that person's comments were uniformed. For example, the person said "NO PROBLEM"just get new limb bolts; "whats the big deal". The problem was that Jake clearly said the tapped hole was "egg shaped". NO, you can't buy "egg shaped" limb bolts to fix the problem. YIKES!! Further the other person's review of the riser was NOT detailed and thorough.

[@konradsusiebakalarczyk267]

Good for you Jake. Keep ‘em coming.

[@hal0hal0mc]

Cheap knockoffs are incredibly frustrating. I am a trad shooter but wanted an ilf bow. Was tempted to get an unknown brand riser but ended up getting samick bc I've wasted money in the past on poor quality, Temu-esque garbage in the past. I always strive to support good quality manufacturing (it saves you $ in the long run). Whether it's usa made, japan, france, and yes even china can have quality mfg as long as the manufacturer maintains good QC (i.e., my makita tools have served me well).

[@ruigomes3441]

New at this, but, just want to thank you so much for all your work! It is a pleasure to learn, and start to love this sport, with all your videos!

[@mr5miffy]

What a great video, thanks Jake. I can't trust anybody in target Archery that says they have never seen a Formula x or xi.

[@blackspeed69007]

Absolutely, he's just a liard. He compètes here in Australia and basically here all competitive archers shoot either WinWin or Hoyt. X and Xi were dominant on the shooting line for the last 5 or 6 years, with nowe a lot of elite shooters moving to Winwin.... I shot Fivics for years and bought an Xi 2 years ago and now shoot both Argon X and Hoyt Xi. I saw the Tbow Exceed in real life... the Vertatune plates couldn't even be screwed in...

[@claesjonsson4943]

Especially a dealer ;)

[@ryanbon]

Excellent video... thanks for the context and the explanations. Did a great service for the sport with this one 💪

[@rudivanschalkwyk8670]

With regards to your budget list, there is one name on there that I'll steer clear of forever. Cartel, I had a cartel riser, I used SF limbs on it for about 14 months then upgraded to W&W limbs. I was still busy with my walk back test (on the second day) when the riser snapped in half. Manufacturer basically told me to fly a kite. No support from them.

[@jbacon4514]

Thank you Jake. This is exactly why I am a fan and follow.

[@quaveda1983]

Thank you for sharing, and for your integrity!

[@jupiter8404]

Well said Jake. Couldn’t agree with you more. What annoys me is supposedly reputable dealers who sell this rubbish. Not only is it rubbish but they try and copy really good equipment and fail miserably. I would question buying anything off a shop/ dealer that sells this stuff.

[@maxschell8823]

Yes, agree totally. Which brings up an excellent point i.e. "reputable dealer." Yes the so-called "reputable dealer" should carry entry level bows, that is lower cost bows, but the dealer should not be selling low quality "rubbish". A reputable dealer should be aware of poorly made equipment BEFORE he sells it to his customers. A poorly made bow not only reflects on the manufacturer but also the dealer who then sells us poorly made "rubbish".

[@Robert-bv4vm]

I've been watching Jake's channel for about 3 years. Hands down the best source material you can find anywhere. Having this much experience and sharing it without any expenses to us, is just amazing. I really loved the first twenty minutes where you talked about your past. I hope there will be a docummentary about you some day🤌

[@brightantwerp]

Just discovered your channel, and I really appreciate what you do and your honesty. Thank you!

[@peterxyz3541]

Good points👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼. I believe we have similar economic situation in our youth. I would love a new ATF DX but a used one is fine. Even as an adult, used gear is pragmatic

[@TrOLLKiLLeRs1]

Great Video, honest content and the safety factor has to be an important wakeup call especially for beginners who quite often get overwhelmed with the myriad of equipment available and don't have the knowledge to see through the clever advertising and attractive packages on offer. That Companies would manufacture equipment where such an occurrence (Riser failure) is more a matter of time rather than a remote possibility is quite scary. Thanks to you for giving viewers the opportunity to hear and see where potential problems can arise and the reasons.

[@bigdave6194]

Knockoff of a knockoff maybe? I have one that I have had a long time. When they first came on the scene I bought the Satori clone. I also now have a legit Satori. I cannot tell them apart other than the stickers. I know someone else with the Satori clone that bought his recently and its junk.

[@maxschell8823]

The RISER: The cast riser you (Jake) have in your hands, with obvious casting flaws, is problematic. Any casting can have issues, i.e. breaking, even with the best riser. For example back in the late 1980s Hoyt made the cast "GOLD MEDALIST" riser. That riser had issues with breaking. In fact I had that riser, and it broke at the narrowest part of the handle i.e. the throat. Hoyt then beefed up the riser to eliminate that problem. I have that beefed up Hoyt "GOLD MEDALIST" riser (2nd generation) in my basement. I shoot using that riser on occasion. CONCLUSION: If you can see obvious surface flaws in the riser BE AWARE that the riser may break at the weakest point or a point where there are serious flaws may be under the surface. BE AWARE that this "light" riser may only exacerbate the problem. NOTE": I also broke a high quality Win & Win cast riser in about 2012. I bought the Win & Win carbon INNO MAX riser to replace it. Yes, I do shoot 300 to 400 arrows per week.

[@maettsook]

love the background intro! Had a similar decision to make at 18 about new shoes or music concert. The underwear decision was much easier and I've been commando ever since.

[@Sinyao]

I almost bought a tbow storm knockoff on aliexpress not knowing it was a knockoff haha. Good thing I zoomed in and decided to check for reviews and prices. Brought me here.

[@nightfog1722]

I think it's highly important to count your blessings. When you get sponsorship, that simply means opportunities to try more gear and to customise your setup for maximum performance. Also to understand that many of your competitors will not have this. If sponsorships did nothing for an archery career, then no athlete would bother with them. And with archery, sometimes it only comes down to a few points that decides whether you make it into a national team for a world championships or not, and having that experience will further elevate your ability level. If it means being able to acquire a new set of arrows that are the correct spine for your bow setup, that will make a difference for accuracy, for instance. It's time to stop pretending that getting sponsorships, scholarships and high performance coaching does not elevate your performance in a meaningful way. Too many people miss out because despite having provable talent, are not selected, and instead have to compete with people who objectively speaking have it easier than they do. It's also important to consider that many high performance archers will go through pitfalls where their performance drops dramatically. When this happens there's often very little support in archery, as the way your ability is perceived by other people also drops.

[@JakeKaminskiArchery]

This is true to a developing archer. To a seasoned archer, you are locked in and unable to try different types of gear. For instance when I had a Hoyt contract I was only allowed to use the flagship equipment and was only able to use Formula bows. Hoyt offered one flagship bow that was a formula setup. So I had no choice or experimentation available, that seems a bit different now at Hoyt and W&W offers many different bows and pieces of equipment. Even arrows, yes you can test spine (as long as you do not exceed your allotment of arrows for the year, many contracts allow 2 dozen arrows per contract year which is barely enough to account for wear and tear let alone testing) and that has great benefits but again if you are locked into a contract for 4 years and a competitor comes out with a new arrow you cannot use the competitors equipment in any way…. There is always two sides to every coin.

[@nightfog1722]

​@@JakeKaminskiArchery The other day I was shooting some different arrows to my x10s, same spine which would usually be okay if they were x10s. But the arrows went absolutely everywhere, and it can be incredibly deceiving when too often people blame lack of ability for poor performance before asking the question if their equipment is working as it should. Switched over to my x10s, was getting way more accuracy at 70m than I was at 30m with the other arrows. Too many people who don't have two different sets of arrows as I did, they would simply be putting their performance in that situation to their form. Hell I know I did, cause the advice I was getting back in the day was not particularly good. I had already demonstrated success in many tournaments but just couldn't financially afford to do the sport anymore so I hung up my bow for a good 10 years. I do respect what you're saying about being locked into contracts, being limited in that sense as to what equipment you can try out. I wish I could maybe have been less blunt in my former comment. It's just I've known many archers who did get sponsorships, scholarships and got the opportunity to train with some of the best coaches in the world, along with having their equipment setup by well known specialists. Unfortunately though, a lot of archers with a great amount of talent miss out on that.

[@ajack6521]

I still use a hoyt gold medalist from 1987. You can trust hoyt's quality IF it is not a fake

[@stevewaite6461]

I made a comment on your previous video about this bow, I noticed SH made a video also that was mildly amusing to a point. Somehow it turned from a safety issue warning to almost an attack on your choice of bow manufacture. Personally I don't give a rats arse what the box looks like or the state it's in on arrival, just that the kit inside is safe, not damaged and looks good. This video shows that your warning was an honest opinion and some archer somewhere was not in the A&E of the local hospital.

[@maxschell8823]

There is an old saying; "YOU CAN'T JUDGE A BOOK BY IT'S COVER" . Unfortunately in this case you can judge the contents by the box. Yes, I agree the box is not important. I usually trash all my boxes within a week or two.

[@andrewauh2605]

Awesome! Great job, Jake. I think the ethics apply more to the sellers. I bought a riser that I was told that it was a Topoint Endevor. However, I noticed that there was a previous decal saying Core Archery Astral riser. I put this riser aside not wanting to use it because I was conned. Just recently, I started use it again, which I will use only with low draw weight limbs. Funny thing is that when I started using it, I noticed that there was a little bit of wiggle from the lombs. I attached a bit of tape on the limb pocket to fix the wiggle, but after watching this video, I getting doubt about using this riser. I do have a WNS Delta NX riser. It seems to me like I will have to go back to my WNS riser.👍

[@martythompson6509]

I wouldn't worry about that "other" video on that bow Jake. He sells them. He's always going to defend his livelihood. I had a mate buy one of those cheaper risers. He sent it back after he found it flexed on a bench with just the pressure of one finger.

[@joshbray2074]

We still have the Joad program running at Allied if you're ever in the area and want to pop back in. Would be great to have you

[@CampfireKodiak]

Your message on safety is a good one. As for ethics I am undecided. Nearly every product we buy today has a clone. Go to the grocery store. They used to be called Generic brand but now they are private label named after a big box store. Is it unethical to purchase a private labeled cereal, crackers, powered drink mix etc? After all they copied someone's R&D and hard work and are undermining them with lower prices. Americans have been doing this our entire lives so we don't even blink an eye now. Same with clothes, toys, sporting goods etc. Why is it that only Archery equipment causes contention? I honestly don't have an answer but it does make me ponder this dilemma.

[@JakeKaminskiArchery]

Agree 100% there. Thats why I mentioned the Dri-Fit shirt issue.... its about quality usually. Now a generic version is different. That would be a bow with say the same geometry, bolt pitch, weight, colors but with different appearances, as in cutout holes different shapes, different appearing bolts etc.... But a direct 1:1 copy of say a cereal with the same box, same marshmallows and instead of it called lucky charms its called..... Lucky TBoWes and the slogan is "they're Magically delicious" just like they are on the real product..... thats a problem. Especially when the marshmallows are made out of cement.

[@InFerrumVeritas]

The problem here is that they literally take a mold of the original and cast it. They're not manufacturing it the same way and cutting costs with things like packaging and marketing, which is more or less what generic brands do. It's a copy like a photo copy, not a "reproduction."

[@blackspeed69007]

For the FMCG comparaison, I worked for a private label management software (Oracle), and I can tell tou most of them are actually manufactured by the big brands, yep...

[@rzjzimmers]

Where I draw the line is when, in any way, it is implied that a product is made in the same factory and is the same. Or worse, sell it as the original brand. Loss of IP costs companies tons of money (they paid for the research and engineering) and many, many jobs. Very often the result is inferior and, like this example, can be dangerous. Once, my daughter didn't have her limbs properly inserted when she strung her bow. The resulting explosive come-apart almost caught her it the eye. I can't imagine what that would be like if it happened while shooting.

[@Mad___Hatter]

You know it's a gonna be a good roast/review when he pulls out a caliper to measure box thickness. It just doesn't make sense to me why a company just trying to make quick money would actually manufacture a direct copy, when super cheap knock-off brands literally just buy the reject production line stock of reputable brands and put their own sticker on it lol

[@rijodel]

Hi Jake. I always believed in you and took your opinion into account in the decisions I made regarding archery (from the oldest videos on Facebook). Keep this stance. Tks

[@synergytech7323]

I can respect your position and thanks for sharing your story and info.

[@DustinLeroy]

thanks for your work to create this video! will you be doing an xd+axia shooting review at 70m?

[@JakeKaminskiArchery]

Unfortunately I don’t have a XD or formula axias. I borrowed one from a patron to do the review I did do. However the ilf axias just arrived so I will be reviewing the foam ones soon.

[@DustinLeroy]

@@JakeKaminskiArchery excited to see which riser you'll be using for it, can't wait!

[@JuanMoris_]

This is one of your best videos.

[@Jay-fc8hr]

Thank you for warning me and saving money by not buying crap for my sons.

[@Man_fay_the_Bru]

I’m grateful for this as I was thinking of getting a 2nd hand one off ebay

[@marcinkusnierz9266]

Good job you doing . Maby one day you do a Border Tempest riser review.?.?.

[@Hybridesque]

He'll have to buy one

[@chrisgaskell3706]

​@@HybridesqueHe could get a knock off for 160. 😂

[@zenhaeusernr]

Thanks, well done

[@Voxguitarsrock]

I love both channels. In this instance lets face it all companies make duds. Lots of people love their F150 trucks. My dad bought one brand new in 1978. By the time it was 6 months old it had its 3rd engine in it. Stuff happens. Bottom line is the honesty level on this channel is 100%. Thanks Jake.

[@romankonecny9943]

These are not comparable. Ford F150 tried their best to design good engine but missed here and there, manufacturer of this bow copy existing design and tried his best to make it as cheap as possible disregarding qualify and safety. It is even worse than cheap 20 USD Rolex knock off, as those will not kick your groin.

[@kendion4597]

The guy from archery supply channel tested this bow after yr first video and he sd it shot well for the money and the bolts were wrong on all of his , but the manufacturer sent him the correct bolts. But it's a reset that copied a very expensive Hoyt. It shoots well for its price point. You won't get visually perfected equipment at the 100ish range. Its still seems to be a decent riser for a regular shooter

[@jamesandrews3417]

Tiller bolts five turns out, sounds excessive. Why do you need to wind them out more than a couple of turns?

[@maxschell8823]

Thanks Jake we appreciate your many videos. Before I comment on this video I'd like to comment on the many KZbin videos on the subject of archery in general. Unlike yourself, that has many years of experience and has the bonafide credentials anyone can post a video. Frankly there are times when I have no idea of their, knowledge, experience, accomplishments, i.e. I haven't seen their resume. I talked to the local archery shop owner about the many videos. He and I agree on this single issue i.e. we have no idea if some of these people are qualified to give advice, do product reviews etc. The average archer may be getting advice from people that may be incorrect. Sometimes the shop owner needs to explain to the customer why that information found on certain subject is incorrect. CONCLUSION: To the archer looking at the many KZbin videos beware. Jake has many years of experience, knowledge and resources for the information he is providing here. Be very careful when using information found elsewhere on the subject of archery e.g. tuning, reviews, tutorials on training, coaching etc., etc. I'm not saying it's all wrong but please be careful! I'll comment on this particular video later.

[@Waltham1892]

I got a pro sponsorship, but it was from Jack Daniels. That didn't work out so well.

[@user-ex7kz9rw2c]

Actually... most Chinese pros also feel ashamed about this company. This company was famous in China for its low quality. Yeah, it was even worse several years ago. Also, some funny things. Your video was shared to Chinese social media and recently several water armys appears in comments. They say TBow (or Junxing in CN) is threatening Hoyt's sales and you are funded to have those videos to defame TBow. LMAO Just want to share how shameless this company is. Trust me, most Chinese also hate this company. We also have some great archery brands and we also hope we can have a top-end brand like Hoyt and Wiawis in the future, but not those who only make cheap knockoffs.

[@wizard80jd]

Always safety first thank you for the honest review, may I ask which brand of barebow riser you can recommend?

[@sagrieff]

I wondered if you would respond to Archery Supplies Steven Hann.

[@maxschell8823]

Steven may want to go back and review Jake's first video on this subject. For example Mr. Hann said the problem was that the limb bolt was undersized and you just needed a replacement limb bolt. Good luck with that. If Mr. Hann carefully listened to the video Jake clearly stated and showed the "egg shaped" taped hole. Unless Mr. Hann can buy an "egg shaped" limb bolt (an impossibility) the problem can NOT be fixed. The riser MUST be scrapped.

[@lorenzomartinez77]

why didn't you put a newer limbs on it?

[@jobagoat]

these limbs were top of the line, infinitely better than the fake ones that most people would pair together with this riser. if anything he shouldve tried the fake limbs with it and maybe both would have broke

[@FXBgenius]

Hi Jake, first off all thanks for your videos about barebow from the view of an olympic athlet. Your infos lead me to try barebow and I like it especially in 3d archery. I'm interested in data really due I'm a mechanical ingenieur. What are the issues of your measurement equipment? Is it a problem of calibrating before measuring? Best regards Ferry from munich, Germany

[@blackspeed69007]

I hope PSE, Bear, Hoyt, WinWin and Fivics stop working with SH as their distributor as he doesn't even see the issue about copyright and misleading his customers... And defend himself by saying he doesn't know that bow (the flagship recurve bow for Hoyt for the last 5 or 6 years... riiiight). I have emailed Hoyt with a link to his website selling the Exceed copy a few months ago, I hoped they d ask him to remove it at least...

[@tonyjay2697]

Well done jake top man keep up the good work,,,,,,,,from south wales UK

[@garyhiggins6718]

Hi Jake, I have seen one on E bay except that was an èxceed which was down for $200! Quite obviously a knock off! I am glad that someone with more credibility than me is getting involved, Hoyt will take some notice of you!

[@andrewbryant2739]

thanks jake i have one of these bows mainly because I'm in thailand and import fees are high here, even used genuine stuff is like new price US i also noticed the same issues with bad bolts and had them send new ones that were soft and the hex head rounded tightening down one of the main problems are, until you have actually owned a genuine production unit you don't know what to expect to be quality and within standard. my tiller bolts are right in anyway but i was thinking of buying heavier limbs which would have meant having the bolts out further. that won't be happening now I've seen your video i will use it as is and look for a genuine excella. i assumed as you say its all made in china then assembled and branded in the usa but now i know its not the case i will be more careful perhaps you ought to rename this video.......must watch before buying knockoff copies of equipment thanks so much glad you stood up and spoke out about this, its important and more people should do it thanks again

[@raywhitehead730]

Don't feel too bad. I had an honest friend who tried to sell me a very expensive rifle scope. He didn't know it was a piece of crap knock-off. It looked good. That's where it ended. I verified that it was fake by comparing its serial number with the manufacturer. Besides it didn't have quality optics.

[@rodphillips4333]

Sorry Jake, I'm an old bloke, so I'm not sure how to ask about a specific thing (technology haha), but here goes I was watching your tuning series about extensions and stabilising and love it well done but I was wondering if there was any testing ever done about introducing intentional torque at the grip to hold against I have seen some people say a bow that is too neutral in its balance allows to many things to influence the movement of the bow therefore having something other than the string to hold against and minimising environmental movement. Thoughts?

[@kiktkikt2863]

Again great video. I will not be buying that same one that I was eyeing thanks a million

[@carstenherbst2934]

This Video seems to be Paid by Hoyt ! And also this Video does NOT mention that also HOYT Risers can have a broken Tillerbolt. The old Recurve Hoyt Helix for example also have an issue with the Tiller Bolts, why not talking about that ???

[@JakeKaminskiArchery]

I wish it was paid! But it’s not…. I never said real risers can’t fail. The helix never had tolerance issues like this, I used to own one when it first came out.

[@carstenherbst2934]

@@JakeKaminskiArcheryI own 2 Hoyt Helix Risers because i LOVE them and i think the Helix is one of the best Riser hoyt ever made. My ones are working fine, but i also dont use more than 34lbs Limbs. But i have read and seen some people in the Internet reporting that the Head of the Bolts are breaking, even if the Shooter has made everything right with his setup as stated in the Manual ! The Helix Tillerbolts are made of light alluminium, the Identic Tillerbolts from Hoyt Aerotec and Matrix are made of Stainless Steel, so i now use Matrix Tillerbolts with my Helix. They fit into the Helix like the Black Alluminium ones, so i don´t think the will broke on my Helix.

[@raywhitehead730]

Should expensive risers and limbs have unique serial numbers? So they can be verified authentic?

[@KINGOWOOD44]

I shoot a Hoyt Satori with Jakes Tiller Bolts in it, its great but I also have a TBOW riser exact knock off of the Satori, I ordered it direct from China. It's perfect, tiller bolts fit perfect, its literally an exact copy. You cannot tell any difference, the quality even looks and feels the same. Its possible this riser that had the hogged out tiller bolt threads was a defective model. Maybe try another one? I'll send you my Tbow Satori to try if you want.

[@johnhenderson1368]

Fantastic video jake. In a world of increasing financial pressures i can imagine peolpe wanting alternative to the more expensive equipment to peruse their passion and this really shows how that can impact you life. Well done for this

[@maxschell8823]

The box: The box material that items,e.g. the box, is called corrugated box board. Yes, I worked in the pulp and paper market for several years. Corrugated box board made in the U.S. is a higher quality than the corrugated box board commonly made in China. We have a local home goods store here that sells 100% of the home goods i.e. nick nacks are from China, and the box board, a.k.a. card board,are a MUCH lower quality. Apparently the box that the riser came in is made of the lower quality box board. I'll comment on the limb bolt issues later. :

[@timgazes5909]

Great video 👍

[@fahlvfaust677]

I read their description, construction- pressure casting, maybe its vacuum die cast aluminum..correct me if im wrong.

[@blackspeed69007]

Archery supplies website present them as CNC machined...

[@fahlvfaust677]

@@blackspeed69007 Sorry, I was wrong. I just found out that it is actually from aluminum 6061 CNC machining.

[@blackspeed69007]

But Jake clearly proved it's cast aluminium

[@blackspeed69007]

Jake jyst proved it's cast aluminium...

[@FlavourlessLife]

When I see mass produced rubbish like this it makes me feel very sad for the well-made, second hand equipment that is sitting unused and unloved in people's closets. I like the idea of buying used stuff from people I trust, because (1) older stuff was generally manufactured with more care and (2) the world doesn't need any more mass produced rubbish that is just gonna end up in landfill in 2 years. The riser I ended up buying was CNC'ed and coated just a few miles away from my home.

[@dnakoldarkside6358]

Hey Jake, care to make a review of the pandarus arrows? which are x10 knockoffs?😂

[@ajack6521]

The quality is wayyyy off on those pandarus arrows. Even my coach said, you are better off with cheap easton arrows than those things