Geothermal Cooling Tricks and Hacks

[@SimpleTek]

Do you know any geothermal tricks and hacks?

[@jakebredthauer5100]

There must be an optimum circuit length for each diameter of tube. Instead of an automotive radiator, coils of tube inside would likely be effective.

[@anhaicapitomaking8102]

@@jakebredthauer5100 do you have any sources on this point for me to read some more please?

[@jakebredthauer5100]

@@anhaicapitomaking8102 I don't know of any books on this subject. You do not say which point you were referring to. If you had a specific question I may be able to answer it. For basic information refer to the laws of thermodynamics.

[@hansulrichjohner2694]

No, I don't know tricks, but that system with heat pumps was quite widespread in the 80ies in Switzerland (Europe), but it cooled down the garden soil and growth started weeks later than normal. People then started drilling holes to around 100m deep, this was very expensive as in the beginning sample drills were used that could only drill app. 2m at a time. Soon after, drills how we know them now, were developed. They are much cheaper and this system is widespread now. I use a passive system in my greenhouse to cool in summer and heat in winter. The water is from a well, drilled to water plants and fill my fish pond, unfortunately it is too salty to use in the house or greenhouse. The ground temperature close to the surface is the annual mean temperature and thus quite useful for heating and cooling.

[@jakebredthauer5100]

@@hansulrichjohner2694 How deep do you think that we need to bury the horizontal tubes to get good results for cooling?

[@cherylkygirl7181]

To use with a central HVAC system, a radiator could be added into your duct work (inside a sealed box). It will supplement the air temp to decrease the demand on your HVAC unit.

[@alfredotto7525]

The thing to remember when talking to a heat and air guy is he doesn't want you to do it yourself. Plus he gets a commission on whatever they sell you.

[@SimpleTek]

soooo very true!!!!

[@midnite22767]

So glad KZbin suggested your channel to me. I've been researching geothermal cooling for a while but was put off by the prices. Will definitely give this a try when I'm ready to build our home. New subscriber, and thanks!

[@SimpleTek]

Glad I could help!

[@Beautifullyanointed69]

It would be really nice to see the finished product and how it works what kind of air temperature you're getting

[@SimpleTek]

ok

[@JohnNy-ni9np]

In summer the outside temperature will be hotter than inside the house, thus it will heat up your house. In winter the reverse happens, it will cool down your house.

[@JimTheKid]

​@@JohnNy-ni9np it is way cooler underground than it is just being outside

[@dougatfuto5]

My new shop system just like this is working. Ground temp 8' down seems to be 15 C, and 800' of 1" line warms up to maybe 17C after a couple days of running, so for passive cooling the rad stays cooler than the air. If I could tap into some of that 6-8C ground would make for super AC. I bet if the water table with higher this year it would be more efficient, water in my well is about 15' down this month.

[@SimpleTek]

Nice work!

[@explorataur]

Great info! Thanks

[@raydreamer7566]

My self I would never tie wrap the water pipe to each other . Even though it is underground rated it is not rated for rocks hard debris so that being said with such a DEEP excavation that is a lot of weight that over time the pipes will begin to crush into each other. Proper installation would be to have a 2 to 4 inches minimum spacing between all water tubing . I know no one has complained yet BUT also it takes time and some equipment to check for flow reduction. I have been installing electrical - communications - underground cables - water supply tubing and always all of them MUST have spacing. BUT it is the QEW ( quick n easy way ) to just tie wrap everything together burry it and run to the next job. If you never have to repair your mistakes you never learn. These horizontal trench installations should be back filled with at least 10 ( 5 under and 5 over ) inches of sand type fill before and heavier rocky back fill is added. I know because I have been the one in the trench spreading the sand and making sure that there is 5 and five and NO pipes touch each other. I have been involved in many pipe trench repairs SO I am speaking from experience . Take the time to DO it RIGHT the first time. Far too often people want to be finished the job before they start ...... You have inspired me so much with these videos that I am installing both horizontal coils with no overlaps and dug well type install with the coils installed still in the coil in a a dug well that has been cemented ( with Sahara sealant as used in swimming pool installs ) The well type has a water supply from roof drainage and a berried house tap water supply to keep the coiled pipe wet at all times. When I am back in the Philippines I will send you pictures.

[@SimpleTek]

It’s different here but we get extreme cold weather

[@raydreamer7566]

@@SimpleTek I am in Ontario now ( - 24 c ) BUT I am sharing with my friends who have the split A/C unites on how to get heat from there A/C unites even at - 30 c . Now for them they are seeing the light at the ened of the tunnel that there split A/C unit can be MUCH more functionally able to produce affordable heat by modifying it with geo back up as you demonstrate.

[@larrysackett8230]

Horrible idea to coil the pipe. Can cause wear and it will not add surface area by doing it. Great idea over all. Just don’t coil it.

[@amathonn]

I thought the same thing and it seems to be the common way of doing things judging by other videos.

[@migueralliart]

I have something similar to this working at the moment in Northern Florida. The only difference is I used a mini split air handler instead of the radiator/fan combo. I modified the handler to have an exit line of 1/2 inch then jerry rigged the fan to operate on a solar panel in tandem with the pump. This way the system only cools down my shop when there is sunlight. So far it has been working for 3+ yrs.

[@SimpleTek]

@@migueralliart that is fantastic

[@rainmaker3]

It's good to note that the radiator or windshield fluids also contain preservatives, which stop microorganisms from fouling your system. So if you use pure glycols make sure you add preservatives.

[@SimpleTek]

Ok

[@stevepailet8258]

My ground temperature is pretty close to 57 F I did not actually measure it. But I took a trip due west to visit the Jack Daniels whiskey facility. They use ground temp water as part of their process. It comes from a cave. So while your method of figuring the ground temp is indeed correct thought mine was a lot more fun.

[@SimpleTek]

agreed!!! I grew up in Gimli Manitoba where the Crown Royal is made. thee things are important

[@stevepailet8258]

@@SimpleTek personally I like Crown better than Jack

[@SimpleTek]

@@stevepailet8258 That's cause you have very refined taste!!!!!!

[@pazcu]

Thanks for the video! Couple of questions: is it safe to say that this system would not be enough to heat a home in harsh winters because you probably can’t heat to more than 10 C, correct? 2) what about using this system to radiant heat a cement floor? Is that being done? Would it make sense to do for a home in a harsh winter area?

[@SimpleTek]

@@pazcu I have videos that address how to get more than 10’C easy and cheap

[@marluna_x]

Alright, I have to admit that that tap water test is genious!

[@SimpleTek]

Thank u

[@garyblackford8366]

Trouble is, it's flawed. My well is almost 200 feet deep. The water that comes out of my faucet is warm due to the pipes being at ambient air temperature. After a few seconds, the water turns colder because of the colder water stored in my pressure tank, which is in the basement. When the actual water from my well comes through, it is much colder (200 feet). That tells me nothing about how deep I need to dig.

[@SimpleTek]

@@garyblackford8366 someone is always going to complain with problems instead of solutions

[@amgeezy_2709]

@@SimpleTekthat’s not a complaint. it’s a helpful point to consider if you have a well. For city water it is a great idea.

[@SimpleTek]

@@amgeezy_2709 ok.

[@blake343]

I'm thinking about doing this and running the lines through the floors for winter heating. 8 degree floors in -30 c for almost nothing is pretty tempting

[@SimpleTek]

:)

[@TheStigma]

You don't need to use pure glycol as a coolant. Not unless you live in a place where the surface temperature might actually approach negative 40c. You can easily Google a table for the mixing ratio you need to keep your coolant flowing at X degrees C. Water conducts and stores heat way better than glycol so it only helps efficiency. And it's free... That said - It would be wise to use a large safety margin of course. As for how much you need to fill a given length of pipe, that is pretty simple math to calculate as long as you know the inside diameter. just Google a calculator for a cylinder and put in the known numbers.

[@SimpleTek]

it gets to -40' where I live....

[@TheStigma]

@@SimpleTek As a Norwegian, I feel you ;) I'm just saying that it's probably not the case for most people who watch this video.

[@SimpleTek]

@@TheStigma my demographics are mostly Canada and the northern USA.. KZbin is awesome in the detail of it's statistical data

[@davidlacziko1516]

Thank you for actually showing Celsius as well

[@SimpleTek]

you're welcome

[@rsnell22]

Your horizontal loop layout will work much better than the highly engineered multi well system I saw fail miserably. I would suggest some kind of spacer between the pipes where they cross. Water source heat pump and well kept fluid chemistry, even in a closed loop. You will heat when air to air heat pumps can't keep up in cold weather. You will cool in hot weather when your neighbors won't be able to. About 1 GPM per ton of capacity.

[@SimpleTek]

Ok

[@midnite22767]

I would love to hear your thoughts on a home cooling system that I first heard of a few years back but has since gone out of business. The company's product was called "the Ice Bear". The device was basically copper coils submerged in an insulated water tank that was attached to a refrigeration system that would slowly freeze the water during the day with the use of solar panels until the water tank became a giant block of ice. The copper coils were attached to a radiator and fan system with pump similar to the low grade geothermal hack you describe here but instead of the cool of the earth, the system would use the ice created by the power of the sun. The sun would power the system during the day to make the ice and you would use the ice at night to cool the house for small amount of power generated by the fan and pump. Not sure why the company folded but I am intrigued by this idea. Do you think its dumb or might work under the right conditions? Thanks.

[@SimpleTek]

interesting - it depends on the amount of energy used to achieve the cooling...... using a phase change might amplify the system's efficiency

[@AaronPaluzzi]

I've been thinking about that lately too after learning about it on "Technology Connections". If you wanted to build something like this it'd actually be rather easy with how common some parts are now. You'd need: 1) A wifi smart home plug: Something you can tell to turn on or off at certain times to get your "cheap power", or that you can tie to your solar inverter to also soak up your free solar power. 2) 5 gallon hardware store buckets. You probably have these already. 3) Beer immersion coolers (copper tubes made specifically for 5 gallon buckets!) like these amzn.to/2VA97hV If this doesn't work you can repurpose the beer chillers and learn to home brew. ;) 4) A deep freezer chest. One you don't mind drilling holes in to install water lines through. Be sure to seal with foam after installing the lines! Use food grade connectors so that if this doesn't work you can repurpose the freezer as a kegerator. Again learn to home brew. 5) Hoses to connect everything together. Beer chillers use standard outdoor hose connections. Some ideas I had for this project included filling the buckets with the same substance that's in those "igloo ice blocks" that last for hours instead of water. You'd definitely need to run something like washer fluid through the lines

[@Noafloaf829]

Wouldn't it be more important to have cooling during the day instead of at night? Unless i'm misunderstanding it seems like it would make more sense to have the solar panels charge batteries during the day and then run the freezing of the block of ice at night with the batteries, and use that ice to cool during the day.

[@midnite22767]

Cooling during the day could be powered with AC and solar panels. Nighttime temps can also be very high in the tropics. The ice block would act as a cooling battery so you can still have cooling even without the power of the sun. Use the suns power to make the ice block during the day then use the ice to cool at night as it slowly melts.

[@paulsmith9574]

Figure that if it worked good, and the Cabal found out about it, the company would be forced out of business. But the set up and maintenance costs need to be less than just a standard AC system. I can't imagine the cost of a permit to bury tanks, and the cost of the tanks and other piping, and labor, to be less than a typical inefficient AC system. The payback time needs to be less than your lifetime.

[@hopechannelcat5462]

thanks for this info, i've studied a lot of geothermal situations and in my books it's the best for the price.

[@rroyiitzhak]

and it really does the different? did you try this?

[@SimpleTek]

Thank you!

[@Swampwild1]

Thanks for the follow up! I’m in Manitoba and seriously planning this for next year. The main argument against this is that for under $2000 I can install a smaller mini-split that has a professional appearance my wife will appreciate. When I have panels and batteries they be overproducing when it’s hot anyways. And a mini-split can be used as a heater in spring and fall. How I can make a nice looking blower is a question. If I did do it I could have valves to divert for garage heating in winter.

[@SimpleTek]

you can buy nice looking radiator blowers

[@blakehafling6995]

I know this comment is months old but I have been in plenty of old houses that have radiator covers from back when the houses ran on boilers or piped in steam. Taking that enclosed idea with the front face built like sashed windows backed with aluminum window screen (to hide the guts) could work well. Might even be able to stack several transmission coolers upright with several smaller fans (which would be easier to find if you want to run on 12-24 VDC) all inside a home stereo speaker case you could find at a thrift store.

[@justinzrandomvideoz5475]

Solar panels put out less power when hot, they perform much better very cold

[@corba197]

What about running your earth-cooled water through a bank of radiators that don't get directly blown into the house but instead precondition the air that is drawn into the outdoor unit of a mini split? You keep the nice professional look of commercial gear inside the house and keep the Rube Goldberg affair outside and enclose it in a cowling or plenum that forces the intake air for your outdoor unit to first pass through a bank of radiators that is filled with your geo-moderated water. It's true you still have the upfront expense of a regular mini split system, but you moderate the cost of running it by

[@corba197]

...

[@BrijrajJadeja007]

Thank you for these amazing videos. I have one question though, I live in India in a very humid environment and I mostly need this system for cooling so can this system remove humidity without a heat pump? is there any other way to remove humidity using this system?

[@SimpleTek]

I suppose there is but I haven't researched it yet - soon I hope

[@grigorshukerski4689]

If the temperature of the water is below the wet bulb temperature of the air into the house it will remove moisture

[@dancurtis611]

Run your cool water through an old fashioned steam radiator. Put a drip pan under it. Moisture will condense on the cooler surface and drip into the pan. Not sure if this would work well enough, but it will work.

[@jakebredthauer5100]

When studying Earth-sheltered housing I learned that the average ground temperature is the same as the average temperature above the ground. Colder climates have colder ground and warmer climates have warmer ground.

[@SimpleTek]

ok

[@redstone1999]

In most cases, it is the mean temperature of the two. Say your average air temp. (day plus night temp, divided by two = average/mean temperature) is 70 F and soil temp is at 60 F. Then you will get an average temp of 65 F from pipes. 5 F cooler is not a lot, but 75 F is more comfortable than 80 F is. Also, if you design it so a fan blows on in building heat exchanger coils. You will also lower the humidity in building from condensation on coils. Some evaporation of the sweat will also help cool the air. In the northern latitudes, the results are a lot better. We will get 1-2 weeks heat waves and ground is ~ 50 F. The warmest my water got was 62 F after 2 months of mean temp of 72 F. And my pipe is only 2 feet deep (hand dug) because of ice age compact clay subsoil. Granted, I did plant a hedge rows on either side of pipe trench. So I welcomed the 65 F on those 96 F days.

[@davek9384]

Agreed - mean annual temperature provides a good approximation of the ground temp.

[@randalb5947]

Please use Polypropylene Glycol and not windshield washer fluid which is ethylene glycol). Polypropylene Glycol is food safe and safer for the environment if the system ever leaks.

[@SimpleTek]

good point

[@marciamarcia7449]

what is the common name for polypropylene glycol?

[@SimpleTek]

@@marciamarcia7449 anti freeze

[@youknoweverything7643]

Another easy way is just use your wel water of you already have one in even if it doesn't work yoy can still use wel

[@z3phyrdok]

Fuck the environment! Tax that! I'm using water from the Fukushima plant!

[@PeterDMayr]

Here I am. I will explore this idea and I hope expand on it.

[@SimpleTek]

Sweet

[@chipandputt]

if you can't get an excavator for some reason but can get a trencher, you can make a grid with narrow (6-inch) trenches ... you obviously can't coil the lines, but with a little planning, you can run multiple passes through the same trenches, kind of like the copper wire in an electric motor. Perhaps not quite as efficient, but for many DIY'ers, a trencher rental is a much more realistic option than an excavator.

[@SimpleTek]

You’d need a pretty big trencher for my climate

[@chipandputt]

for sure geographic location will impact the setup quite a bit ... I live in eastern Tennessee, and even in the middle of the summer, our tap water is about 60 degrees F, and the lines are only buried 18 inches deep. At even 3 feet, you get a pretty consistent 57 degrees year-round... not gonna be magnificent at cooling or heating, but in an off-grid situation, a fan blowing through a 60-degree radiator is very nice in the summer, and a huge reduction in how much wood you need to burn in the winter. @@SimpleTek

[@SimpleTek]

@@chipandputt in summer our tap water is 8’C here, 4-5’C in winter

[@ChaosLodge]

if there are caves in your area, ask a caver what the cave temps are -- that is another way to find the ground temp in your location.

[@SimpleTek]

Great advice

[@amathonn]

Seems a lot of factors would determine the efficiency/effectiveness of any installation -- depth of dig, length of pipe, diameter of pipe, liquid in the pipe, volume of liquid in pipe, flow rate of chilled liquid, dwell time in the chill harvesting coil, and probably much more. In the end, results satisfactory to the user are what counts, be it cooling 20 degrees for room comfort or 5 degrees for vermicomposting worm survival in Florida. Did you guess the worms are my first concern at the moment? That said, I'm considering 2 inch vertical holes, jetted down with a trash pump. I've put down a few shallow wells in that way, I think the deepest was 26 feet, and they do go in relatively quickly.

[@SimpleTek]

You have some good points

[@AaronPaluzzi]

Possibly crazy thought that might modify your design slightly. The big expense / labor item is the install of the coils. There's nothing stopping you from installing the basic AC system, then at a later date installing the heat pump (maybe say, when your furnace dies). Just size the coils at the start planning for a future upgrade. You might spend a few hundred extra in PEX and backhoe rental but you're prepared for the future.

[@SimpleTek]

ok

[@johnjacobjinglehimerschmid3555]

I appreciate watching your videos since I came across your channel a couple of months ago. I tend to live in the city so digging a long enough and deep enough trench to do this would not be possible ... but you give me pause to maybe move outside city limits. Keep up the videos.

[@SimpleTek]

That is awesome!

[@twiincentral8780]

What about vertical type one? I’ve seen people dig a well DIY, don’t understand why the same well couldn’t be used to put in a close loop?

[@EnhancedCognition]

You might have better luck with a desiccant based cooling system. (Tech ingredients) here on KZbin has some good info on how to build one.

[@lordbeeg1]

I did something similar for my garage, storage building, and greenhouse. It's keeping the buildings less volatile. I also run a dehumidifier in summer to keep moisture down and a humidifier during the winter to help heat the space

[@SimpleTek]

That is awesome!

[@rroyiitzhak]

just want to start this kind of project. can you give more information about the temprature? is it really work?

[@josephlarsen]

Sir_Lord_Bryon - do you have more details about your system? Would love to be able to chat about what you did, what you'd change, how well it works, etc

[@lordbeeg1]

this actually does work. I live in west central Illinois in a 4/5 grow zone. I rented a mini excavator for a weekend ($500) and dug multiple projects while it was here. I ran 3/4 black geothermal line around my garden which is right next to my garage. it's a looped line like in the picture that I used a 24" bucket on the mini. I dug around a 650ft trench that zig zags across my garden and comes up in the center center of my west wall on my 42'x56' garage. I have 6 zones in my radiant floor heat in my garage in 6 zones and I use a brass manifold for inlet side and outlet side with flow adjustment valves in each section. I also have a cheap garage sale wood stove that I use in the garage to bring up the temperature for very cold winter days that I ran copper tubing around the firebox to assist in the temperature of the floor. I only light it when I'm working all day in the garage and it's below 20 degrees Fahrenheit. As for no heat assistance from the wood stove, it stays around 43 degrees Fahrenheit throughout the winter with only the circulation pump running. my lines are around 7ft deep in the ground and seem to work well to keep a constant temperature throughout the winter. Total investment is $1163 before I poured concrete. Well worth it to me. I also have spray foam insulation in my garage as well as my home and that's been worth EVERY CENT

[@josephlarsen]

awesome. Do you think it's important to make the trench or could you have just buried it all under the garden? The 650ft keeps all 3 buildings above 43 degrees? Do you use anything in the greenhouse like a radiator?

[@jeanftitus]

Hey you got me all excited about this idea. You explain well what all you need. But you stop at the fan and the radiator. How do I get this cold air into my house? Please do another video and explain that part. Thank you

[@SimpleTek]

The fan on the radiator gives you the cold air!

[@donwilson4934]

You will need to make a plenum or distribution box with ducts to push the air to the rooms of the house. You will also need a return plenum where the warm air of the house is pulled in and pushed through the radiator and then into the plenum. Probably look at hvac designs to see the components.

[@naomifourie9016]

I know this was made years ago, but I'm pretty sure you will greatly improve the thermal dissapation if you use metal type pipes, and you're in wet soil.

[@chipandputt]

true ... you will certainly get better thermal transfer with say copper pipe than HDPE pipe, but the copper pipe is far more prone to corrosion than HDPE ... and it costs a lot more. far better (providing you have the space for it) to just go with HDPE in a long enough run to get the same result ... worry-free for decades.

[@Liberty4Ever]

How does a two well system work? It's no longer a closed loop system. Rather than a circulating pump that is overcoming the friction in 3/4" tubing (not much friction for that laminar flow), you'll have a well pump pushing cold water up and that'll use much more energy. In theory, the weight of the falling water can siphon water from the other well but in practice, the water will drain down and the suction will be lost. For my area with a lot of limestone, I considered a closed loop system with a stainless coil down a single 6" diameter well, but unless the water at the bottom is an underground aquifer with good flow rate, it seems likely that the local area will not sink enough heat to air condition a house.

[@vickichamberlain9124]

It might be nice to tell your followers who have soil that has rocks in it to place a layer of sand down for the pipe to rest on and also to cover the pipe with sand to stop rocks (sharp) from damaging you pipe.

[@SimpleTek]

Good tip!

[@TheJrmojo]

Sand is a very bad conducting medium...

[@michaelmahoney2881]

I am a 30 year tech. I have seen over those years multiple leaks in the field wether it be dx or indirect you still have to dig to find and repair them

[@SimpleTek]

always best to use high end quality materials

[@clownssschwab6394]

X6 - 1000ltrs IBC tanks piped together and buried under the ground .. they will be the heat sink to utilise ....I guess that will work too.

[@SimpleTek]

It would!

[@jfbaro2]

Hello! Thanks for sharing all this information! Do you know anyone from Brazil who has build an open loop system?

[@SimpleTek]

I only know 2 people from Brazil :( Both great people though

[@jakebredthauer5100]

For straight-line pipe burial, an ordinary trencher would probably be more practical than a backhoe or an excavator. Some have extensions for extra depth.

[@SimpleTek]

never seen one do 8 feet before. I've used trenchers, in my experience an excavator is easier.

[@jakebredthauer5100]

@@SimpleTek Okay.

[@OntarioMiner]

Great Video. Just wanted to ask what the best 3/4" pipe to use for 800ft (average 2-ton AC performance) at about 5 to 8 ft in sand ground material? What's the best quality brand pipe and depth for coiling the pipe?

[@SimpleTek]

Not sure

[@costasmarangos8117]

hi.... excellent video!!!! I grow tomatoes in my green house, the out side temp in the summer in around 37 degrees celcius. its abit hot for the tomatoes this time of the year. how many degrees do you think geothermal with radiators and fans can drop the temperature... just to note, the green house has sun block on the top. thanks

[@SimpleTek]

Need lots more information, like ground temperature 8 feet down, ground material, and lots of info on your greenhouse insulation

[@costasmarangos8117]

@@SimpleTek hello again… ground temp at 8ft down is 17’c ground material is sand and clay, green house insulation is plastic sheeting

[@diannej2406]

Great ideas overall. But figuring out the ground temperature at around 6 foot depth by taking the water temperature after running it won't work if you have a well and a pressure tank. The pressure tank will hold the water at the air temp where it's located and with most modern deep wells the temperature of the water coming directly from it will reflect the ground temperature at the depth of your well. Probably 100+ feet down.

[@SimpleTek]

maybe - but it seems to work though

[@eb1888.]

Keep running the water until the temp stabilizes at its lowest point,

[@timerickson7056]

Pretty simple Google ground temperature for your town . You must bury the lines below the frost line in your area that's where you are most area's 4feet is all the deeper you need to go . To go deeper below the frost line the temp won't change until you get hundreds of feet deeper .

[@Waynesification]

2:49 Here, if it gets overcast and cold for a few days the municipal water from the mountain lake gets cool. Sun come out, a few days the lake heats up, and the temperature goes up. So, the municipal supply is cold charged.

[@OscarRPalma]

Do you have photos of the radiator and fan in your house or greenhouse can you show to us? Do you build a box or put it in the window, thanks in advance

[@stevepailet8258]

Figuring how many BTU heat transfer. A couple of things. How deep can you go. How large a diameter pipe. Internal friction of smaller but longer runs. These all make a big difference in how many BTU and how long it might take for the ground to recharge the heat around the piping. Have heard of people doing a wider trench and then after backfilling enough to keep the tubing in place they cut foam panels wide enough to just fit the trench. Why? They do this to keep the warmer or cooler temps of the surface air from slowing the recharge time. For me to get close to the # of BTU needed I figured for the 10 degree difference from where you are in canada to here in SE Tn but using the same 3/4 in tube likely will need 800 ft per ton of cooling. Hope this is helpful to other folks reading the blog

[@SimpleTek]

Thank you!

[@mickeymallette2663]

I am near Memphis and I am not sure my ground temps at 8 feet make this a practical solution even for my small 600 sq. ft. area.

[@stevepailet8258]

@@mickeymallette2663 curious what you figure your ground temperature is. I am 30 miles from the southeren border of tn and figure that the ground temps are around 57 F

[@mickeymallette2663]

@@stevepailet8258 I m just south of Memphis. I haven’t tested, but tried looking up data online for Mississippi and most things seem s to be in the 65° F range. But even at 57°, seems like a really long run would be needed to even get a 12,000 BTU equivalent.

[@Skookman]

I am looking for an answer for my elderly friends. They live in the ca high desert. Off grid. And they can’t keep their home cool enough with a swamp cooler when temps are over 100F. I have watched two of your geothermal videos. I still don’t understand how it works. Do you have step by step planes?

[@SimpleTek]

No, sorry no plans

[@crherniman]

​@@SimpleTekdo you happen to know if this would work in the CA high desert area?

[@jujosworld]

Why not add a solar water heater to the heating system portion of this build just add a section where it can be attached and disconnected for the season.

[@SimpleTek]

that might work but glycol is much cheaper and easier

[@jujosworld]

@@SimpleTek no I mean build a copper pipe system enclosed in a sealed box with end fittings that would attach both to each end of the solar heater which heats the glycol with the sun no electricity and with a cut off valve so you can remove the solar heater in the summer and reattach it in The winter.

[@AaronPaluzzi]

@@jujosworld have you built one of these? I had considered building something like this to heat my garage in the winter. My only question was what to do with the system in the summer? I know you'd stop pumping fluid, but does the fluid flow back to it's holding tank or just remain in the solar heater all summer?

[@jujosworld]

@@AaronPaluzzi I have not built it physically i am still looking for a proper attachment but to answer your question if you use the window washer fluid you can leave it run all season in the summer because if the heat/frost line below the ground it should work as a heater in the winter and a cooler in the summer. My overall thoughts was to build an attachment with fittings so you could attach a solar heater ( build a box with piping to heat the fluid with the sun.) That would help heat the ground and with a small pump circulate the fluids. If you go to a plumbing store you can find most if not all the fittings you can use for this. I am a problem solver it intrigues me to help others. As for me I have property but my family comes first. So I have not had the pleasure of building some of the things in my head. Maybe I should put it to paper as we old timers say. Good luck with your project any questions just post a comment and Ill get to you asap.

[@jujosworld]

@@AaronPaluzzi i forgot to ask something because there are a few ways to do winter heat in a garage the previous reply was for improvement on the build on this page but there are other types of solar heaters that use the sun to heat an area.

[@raydreamer7566]

A heat pump can always be added later . Most important is to properly install your circulating system.

[@SimpleTek]

Very true

[@concretecontractorhuntsvil4254]

I have 2 houses about 10 meters apart. Plenty of land, so I can easily get the meterage for the pipe. Can I use the same pipe and connect a radiator and fan to each house? If so, are there plans for such a system?

[@SimpleTek]

Pipes are cheap, use two pipes in one hole. - no that is NOT an adult film… geeesh

[@jeremyhickman308]

Question, could a system like this be used to make a hybrid geothermal/ conventional central ac. My thoughts would be to add the geothermal radiator into the central system on the return side to pre-cool the return air just before it goes through the evaporator. Would this increase efficiency substantially?

[@SimpleTek]

good question

[@ericsmith108]

Yes just either leave the fan on instead of auto or you can out a bypass ducking like a whole house humidifier/ dehumidifier.

[@jasonspitzley1004]

Ground source heat pumps have been around for years.

[@bikeman1969]

Will this create condensation at the radiator when humidity is higher and do you need to add a drainage system to carry it away.

[@SimpleTek]

Yes

[@Stumpyblue]

Some plans of your own system would be helpful to gauge what would be required for individual as application

[@SimpleTek]

I don’t do that but thank you

[@Shultzy]

So I recently took the plunge and have buried 3 different loops each of about 1200 ft of 1" I have it hooked into a radiator I picked up at Autozone for a 2000 Civic as the shape fit perfectly between my ceiling joists. I have a overkill Grundfos 3 speed circulation pump hooked into it where the water will cycle through slowly on Medium and fastly at High. The whole system is filled with RV Fluid (the pink stuff that's capable of -50). The issue I've run into is a simple box fan is not cutting it. It doesn't have enough power to blow the air through the radiator. My thoughts are that I need to 1. buy a squirrel cage blower. 2. build an enclosure around the fan/radiator to direct the airflow. or 3. swap out the radiator/fan for more effectient products. Any Suggestions? What kind of fans/setups have you or anyone else used?

[@SimpleTek]

Maybe you just got a shorty box fan? Mine works great with a radiator

[@Shultzy]

@@SimpleTek it was one of the Lasko Plus models from Home Depot.

[@jamiereife5581]

I don’t understand why, when building a house, the coiling isn’t simply wrapped around the home’s foundation a couple of feet away from the cement bricks. Then you don’t have to dig out into the yard. Everyone knows that the basement is always the coolest part of the house.

[@SimpleTek]

@@jamiereife5581 yep

[@normancomeau371]

Heat transfer coeficient is the spread of temperature creating the opertunity to increase efficiency.

[@SimpleTek]

ok

[@iooo172]

Would this work in tropical climate like costa rica? could i also increase efficiency by placing the coils in a pond?

[@SimpleTek]

all depends on your ground tempatures

[@Waynesification]

Another question. These systems often depend on charging the ground with hot during summer and cold during winter, and the ground volume storing that temperature, which means that eventually surface area can outstrip the storage capacity, and depending on the nature of the area, reducing the cooling or heating effect (you can run lines into solid rocks hundreds feet to pick up heating from radioactive decay even, but over a century deplete the built up warmth). Is there a better way to design it?

[@SuperJLTube]

Put a thermometer in your sump well. We need to design a system that has an exchanger at your sump pump. My basement always has water.

[@bobwelch7911]

I keep seeing these videos and tutorials and I'm concerned about the efficiency regardless of the location. You are basically installing a heat exchanger. And to me, the best heat exchanger is one that "exchanges" the heat/cold as fast as possible. That's why the radiator in your car is metal, not plastic. (Except for the top and bottom tanks) I'm not saying your system doesn't work. Of course it does. And many are doing as you described. However what I AM saying is that it seems to me that some sort of metal conduit would be WAY more efficient. Granted, more expensive and in some case way more expensive but hopefully you're doing this once. And with a more efficient conduit you might be able to shrink the size of the system. Feedback please. I'd like other's input.😎

[@SimpleTek]

@@bobwelch7911 agreed metal is more efficient, but it’s also way more costly. You can have 200’ of plastic tubing for less than 30’ of metal.

[@PropGru]

When laying down the hose/pipe..do you put gravel around it or should it be in direct contact with the soil?

[@SimpleTek]

If you have sand I’d use that but most installers just use what’s available there

[@HallyVee]

Is it just about square footage then? Would a 400 or so foot system be able to cool a greenhouse or garage sized house?

[@barnabyvonrudal1]

Nice explanation! What happens if the pipe gets cut? Would you need to put in some redundancy?

[@SimpleTek]

I’ve never heard of that happening

[@barnabyvonrudal1]

@@SimpleTek right, so unlikely then. Thanks!

[@williamb9060]

Guess my ground Temp in Arizona is cold enough. We can not even take a cold shower in the summer.

[@SimpleTek]

You guys get insane heat

[@evilroyslade2491]

Interesting. I have a water well 30 feet down and you have me thinking in the winter I can heat my raised garden bed the same way by putting the coiled water pipe under the soil a foot or more when I build my next raised bed. I will cover the bed with a greenhouse covering. Why not?

[@SimpleTek]

Sounds great!

[@mikerice8047]

What kind of solar powered pumps will you need for two hundred feet of one inch line ? Do you need two or one pump ? How powerful do they need to be ?

[@SimpleTek]

The pumps have ratings on them, go from there!!!

[@alexyello5208]

What about circulation pumps? any tips on sizing the pump based on the system installed? Also does a larger pipe = more cooling? ie can you used less length of a larger pipe to achieve equivalent BTU power?

[@amathonn]

Good point, perhaps at a slower flow rate?

[@BSnydr]

Technical question. If I spiral tubing clockwise underground will Coriolis Effect accelerate air flow? Just like water spins clockwise in the northern hemisphere. Maybe we don’t need a fan for airflow.

[@SimpleTek]

Good question I have no idea

[@grande6075]

is plastic tubbing a good conductor of either hot or cold.Is there a substitute material that could absord cold like cooper or stainless tubing?

[@SimpleTek]

It’s not the best but it’s the most affordable and available

[@grande6075]

@@SimpleTek Thanks for answering my querries, I actually have the same opinion because i have noted that only this kind of materials are actually being use for said purposes, considering its affordability and durability.

[@andrewdipaula7734]

You should make a DIY heat pump video if possible

[@SimpleTek]

Good idea

[@Ken-yp1dg]

Interesting idea for water storage...large diameter pipe underground negate the need for storage tanks.

[@itreB]

Hi very interesting Systhem. Is there a surface ratio ( greenhouse/geothermal collector) you can recommend

[@SimpleTek]

it's hard to make blanket recommendations as there are a lot of variables due to location and soil material

[@itreB]

Thank's for your quick answer! So were could i find further Informations to fit the Systhem to my conditions here in the south of germany?

[@SimpleTek]

@@itreB KZbin or testing with a backhoe. Google might help, sorry that’s all I hsve

[@underwaterworldmckay5502]

Could you run hydroponic nutrients in the water to lower the temperature of the water going to the plants?

[@SimpleTek]

yes but that's not the same water you'd use in this cooling system

[@johnfritz5903]

It is a closed loop system.

[@tedhicks5431]

U work in a house for bout 24 yrs it has 19 water source heat pumps no back up strip sizes 7000 btu to 48000 original lines 20k 1" 10' deep done ok until water leaks started showing after small earthquake owner kept having lines fixed finally he went to vertical lines. Only main problem was heat exchangers would leak. 2 units in pool house 2 in guest house also thats 23. Will be glad when house sells gettin tired of it time for someone else to worry bout it.

[@Hydroculator]

lol I measured my tap water just now, and it's 85F. That's after letting it run for a while. I think calling it a "cold" water tap here is a bit of a misnomer. :D We have hot and warm running water.

[@SimpleTek]

Omg

[@darkkenzi]

Will it work on a house? Our next & last house will be 12-1500 s.f with a basement, (hopefully), & will have anywhere from 5-20 acres. We always buy land with at least half of it open, looking to go to southern MO next...I HOPE I can do this for a house & perhaps take the radiator part & drop it right in the air handler so we can use the rest of the system as a backup for colder winters or hotter summers, & be able to use the existing vents ideally. Is this doable?

[@SimpleTek]

It can!

[@felonebike9859]

Can you recommend a heat pump manufacturer to look for thats affordable?

[@SimpleTek]

try alibaba

[@davehuber6949]

I live in northern Mn I have worked on geothermal units I have seen the loop coming back at 20 degrees are lower in February is would you be better of with electric boiler are electric heater at that point

[@SimpleTek]

@@davehuber6949 for heating in your climate it’s smart to inject heat into the ground around the tubes with evacuated tubes.

[@robinhoward5126]

I have a heat pump installed but have been thinking abou making it a (redneck) geo thermal. I have been told it won't work but can't give me a good reason why it won't work. I'm thinking about 2 ways of doing this. Both ways are to change the temp. of the condenser air intake temp. for both winter and summer. The first and cheapest way for me is I have a 250 foot deep well. I'm going to run a 2 inch pipe with a loop in it to the bottom and back up and through some radiators and attach them to the condenser. I figure I should be able to get between 10 and 15 degree temp. differential. The other is to place 6 inch tubes in the ground at 6 foot deep. Build a wall around the condenser to pull the air through the tubes.

[@SimpleTek]

I’m about to release a video on exactly this in a day or two

[@dogodogo5891]

there are huge geothermal power plant about 30 km from my house our area basically are part of active volcano, i dont know water temp but it is always very cold so basically i can make refrigerator only use a YARD? please enlighten me, i just starting hear diy geothermal in recent time, greet from indonesia

[@SimpleTek]

If you have volcanic geothermal heat under you you have unlimited free heat and are very lucky

[@omsingharjit]

8:22 you should Also tell peoples that there is two types of glycol or antifreeze in which only one is safe to put in ground where it can leak which is propylene glycol other hand ethylene glycol is poisons .

[@SimpleTek]

Good point, thank you

[@jfbaro2]

Can I use 100mm PVC tubes? If so, how do I calculate the length necessary to get the BTUs that I need?

[@SimpleTek]

There’s a lot of variables to consider.

[@elenidemos]

Awesome answers to some great questions, thanks.

[@SimpleTek]

Glad it was helpful!

[@WayneKellen]

I have plenty of land behind the house. If I buy 1500 ft of sprinkler grade pipe, can I trench for it 6' deep about 700 feet away, 50 foot over, and 700 feet back in one circuit? Basically I just want to make a big U shape. Will this type of distance put a lot of load on the pump? It is very flat ground with nothing in the way. I am mainly looking for something to supplement the cooling for a 1000 sq ft house. I would like to get the electric bill down. What about the humidity in the house? Will this type of flow over a radiator in line with my existing duct work reduce the humidity in the house?

[@SimpleTek]

There’s a lot of factors to consider but a dehumidifier can manage any high humidity issues in many cases

[@rebeccalewis8688]

Thank you for this! Do you have a way to calculate the length and width of the trench per feet of pipe if coiled?

[@SimpleTek]

Sorry no. Just guess work

[@BenCovanbberBb]

What type of pump could you build if you do not need to heat?

[@SimpleTek]

good question

[@darkkenzi]

LOVE your videos BTW!!!!

[@SimpleTek]

Yay! Thank you!

[@ZoomStranger]

Very interesting many thanks! subscribed.

[@SimpleTek]

@@ZoomStranger thank you

[@harveyroad6]

Should the water lines be filled and or pressurized before backfilling?

[@SimpleTek]

filled helps - pressurized not needed they are very strong lines if you buy the right ones

[@SherryDomer]

Hi there. I like this idea. What are the typical dementia’s of the trench? 8’ deep by 2’ (bucket size?) by 100’ long? 1 trench or more. I haven’t found this information yet. Please help.

[@SimpleTek]

that all depends on the material you're digging in

[@SherryDomer]

@@SimpleTek A good mix of clay, sand, and rocks

[@GuentherJohnny]

Maybe I missed it, but did you address condensation issues with cooling radiant?

[@SimpleTek]

You need a pan and drain, good point

[@GuentherJohnny]

@@SimpleTek so if you have pipes everywhere in your floor, you need a lot of pans and drains. I’ve seen other channels that explain a complex monitoring system for checking dewpoint and adjusting the temperature of water accordingly.

[@SimpleTek]

@@GuentherJohnny not really an issue on a radiant floor, more of a radiator thing… size difference

[@jeffreydustin5303]

Can you hook the radiator portion to an exist PAC (propane) outdoor heat pump unit? We are in the southeastern US. It already has the ductwork, etc. set up.

[@SimpleTek]

no idea... but worth looking into!

[@drthuntclub4153]

Will this system work on a off grid cabin about 220 sq. ft. for cooling?

[@SimpleTek]

In many circumstances yes

[@salnarducci]

I would like to know how to attach the water line to the auto radiator? Is there some kind of fitting?

[@SimpleTek]

yes - very simple to do

[@jujosworld]

You would see the size of the radiator openings and get what is called a step down hose attachment they have them in most home supply stores in the hose section or the ovc pipe section of the store or just ask a clerk in the area most are pretty knowledgeable.

[@Br30357]

can we put lines in a septic tank which 15-20feet deep. coz a septic tank may be have the same temperature as a water body of same depth? when you are putting options you may ask for each and every possible option. is this can be done or there may be not same temperature ? please answer. I may be wrong but i want to know.

[@SimpleTek]

It is a source of heat… but mostly cause the lines would be buried in liquid that’s stored below the frost line and additional heat is added from waste water regularly… so the sewage should be in bulk a few degrees hotter than just ground water BUT it gets emptied so then it’s just cold air till it fills up again ..

[@dienekes4364]

I'm sure those "professionals" claim that this doesn't work because they can't profit off of it. In that sense, I guess they are right: it doesn't work _FOR THEM!_ LOL I'm planning on buying some land in a couple of years and having a house built (potentially a prefab or modular home) and I'm going to have enough land to put one of these systems in. Sure, it might not be "perfect" and provide every single BTU of heating/cooling that I need for every second of the years, but it will go a LONG way to augmenting a system and saving a ton of money.

[@SimpleTek]

Thank you for the kind words

[@theageoftheawakening4806]

Tap waters ground temp

[@SimpleTek]

;)

[@David_Mash]

A circle trench is best, running 3 large coils is less turbulent than 30 coils. Energy efficiency.

[@SimpleTek]

nice

[@Seriouslydave]

@@SimpleTek but what if turbulence is not a bug but a feature. Maybe that design conditions the temperature better.

[@marciamarcia7449]

@@SimpleTek you really like this idea?

[@jimronaldson6699]

First time watching a video from your channel so I do not know fi you have addressed this other places, and if so, please put the link in a reply. So, lets say someone is building a house. Would, while digging the foundation, it be a good idea to dig several feet deeper and lay the pipe underneath the foundation (slab style)? If not, how about the non slab style?

[@SimpleTek]

Cooling in summer becomes an issue when it’s underneath

[@corba197]

@@SimpleTek why is that? In the summer the house shades the ground that is above the pipes so it would seem the soil around the pipes would be cooler than if the pipes ran out in the yard.

[@billrohrer6035]

You don’t want to dig under the foundation, foundations need to be on undisturbed soil. The inspector will turn down your inspection if you’ve disturbed the soil under the foundation. Engineers usually say soil that’s been settling for 80-90 yrs can be considered “ undisturbed “, probably don’t want to wait that long 😽

[@duytruongnguyen9700]

Can this work in place where the ground water temp is around 77f and summer temp is around 90-95 f with high humidity?

[@SimpleTek]

somewhat

[@roberthicks5454]

I was also wondering about the coils. I was wondering if you ran, say a 100 foot trench 6 foot deep, and 12 inches wide, and you ran 6 lines out, put 1 foot of soil, then added 6 more lines, would that give you 1200 feet of cooling/heating lines?

[@SimpleTek]

maybe?

[@corba197]

apidly the ground around the pipes reflects the temperature of the water in the pipes instead of the ambient temperature of the earth. Many articles I have read indicate keep six feet between your outgoing and your incoming trenches. Said another way, no don't stack multiple pipes inside a trench.

[@corba197]

(sorry for clumsy edits, my microphone button is too close to the send button!). I meant to preface the preceding comment with "when pipes are stacked too close together, rapidly the ground...)

[@roberthicks5454]

@@corba197 Thanks

[@roberthicks5454]

@@corba197 I kind of figured out something was missing. I did not exactly figure out the words, but got the gist.

[@johnpreston1008]

I wonder if it's possible to do this in New Orleans? I've got 100 feet i can trench and the water table here is super shallow, like you get to water after just a few feet.

[@SimpleTek]

water table isn't a problem, it's about the ground temp 8 feet down