So we decided to test the 1320 Header against the Skunk2 Header . We have the Car on the Dyno and the header was on loan from a customer.
Пікірлер: 143
@kristophermartell20092 жыл бұрын
Great comparison!!! These are the kind of tests I would do if I had a dyno. I’m too curious not to see what works best. Great video and keep it up
@LHTPerformance2 жыл бұрын
Thanks, I may do more tests.
@bbdetailing91232 жыл бұрын
@@LHTPerformance yes, please
@bighomieJ5X2 жыл бұрын
Thanks Jon for doing this ,1 guy tried to argue me down about his $2000 exhaust over my $200 exhaust, but the results are as clear as glass 🤷🏾♂️😁
@sideshow452 жыл бұрын
You just didn't need to spend the extra $1800 for the glasses 😄
@modality142 жыл бұрын
1320/PLM headers are replicas of js racing, hks twisty, hytech headers(the plm race header is a shorter version of the hytech header). they look similar but the primary and secondary runners arent the same size.
@dobleu132 жыл бұрын
I learn so much from John, I appreciate his honesty and his passion for cars, keep it up LHT, thanks John.
@alatorreconcrete89102 жыл бұрын
We appreciate your time and effort on these comparisons. Thanks 🙏
@DirtDude1172 жыл бұрын
While it's talked about for autocross, a High Flow Cat along with the header & 2.5" catback + tune make a huge difference. The mid range is excellent for a bit of upper end. With just a HFC, just a header, or just a tune they don't do much
@jiurriza2 жыл бұрын
This is very interesting. I'd love to see more side-by-sides like this. It's very useful to make educated decisions on what to do to the car!
@dc2kai2 жыл бұрын
Your videos always teach me a lot! Keep it up man great content🔥
@rubenske0912 жыл бұрын
Thank you, for taking the time to make these videos John 🙌👍👍
@brittonwritespoetry2 жыл бұрын
This dyno session proves how difficult it is to make NA power and it's a testament to how well Honda engineered the F20/F22 to squeeze out all the power while meeting emissions requirements. There's barely any gains until you delve into forced induction.
@victorwilburn34982 жыл бұрын
Be White: NOT necessarily true. ASK John about the white '08 S2k he built for me AND the red one he built for another customer same as mine with a hidden nitrous system back on 2009. Very simple setup that included the custom step headers that he used to build from scratch at the shop. You can see our discussion of it in these comments. 👍
@LHTPerformance2 жыл бұрын
@@victorwilburn3498 That was a lot more of a complexed header we hand built for your car. Maybe I’ll get a wild hair and build a header to prove it 🤔
@victorwilburn34982 жыл бұрын
@@LHTPerformance John I miss that car..terribly. Effortless 360 degree burnouts w/o abusing the clutch or..car. Sublime throttle response and it was stupid fast for so few changes. Everyone I raced back then thought I had gears/nitrous..something ELSE done to it. DEEPLY regret having to sell it when I did. 👍👍👍
@ylee280 Жыл бұрын
That mid-range gain can be seen in the the real world in a drag race or around the corners on a track. It looks like a tiny gain but you’ll clearly see the S with a header pull away on acceleration. And forced induction is fun but destroys all reliability, especially on track.
@Meister-CJ2 жыл бұрын
Great video. Just goes to show how good the factory header is. I suppose IF you really needed some low down torque tracking MAYBE an aftermarket would be worth the money but factoring in tuning etc, factory is still the way to go
@spencersgarage2 жыл бұрын
Great comparison! All good to know 👍🏼 I also enjoyed your comparison video on the stock Honda OEM plug wires vs the Spoon plug wires on a B18C.
@Fasttechs2k2 жыл бұрын
I Can’t find this video.. what was the verdict?
@spencersgarage2 жыл бұрын
@@Fasttechs2k Spoon wires on a b18c engine make it loose a few HP. Better to stick with OEM.
@eddieh98572 жыл бұрын
THANKS LHT!! always appreciate and respect all the work and extra effort always !
@area220sucks2 жыл бұрын
Those header need bigger cat n exhaust. To me this is like testing a good set of K series header with a small 2” exhaust system, it’ll choke
@seshelbow3362 жыл бұрын
Would have been better testing them with no exhaust....header only.
@brunomanco75292 жыл бұрын
Wouldnt do much i think. The S2000 for track really only needs a 70 or 76mm header back custom exhaust, airbox mod + kn filter and a hondata or aem ems. More than this and u spend thousands for litle to no gains
@mr.hernandezdrives2 жыл бұрын
thank you John, this was enjoyable to watch.. ilove my s2000 and i have contemplated a header..so yeah i would be playing with my car if i had a dyno as well.. actually i was doing my valve adjustment a few hours ago and took off my injectors for cleaning, so yeah lets enjoy our cars
@k2avfr Жыл бұрын
Thank you for the data. Keep up the terrific testing.
@marciosilva892 жыл бұрын
Thank you for taking the time, the effort to fo this video. You guys are awesome.
@georgerobartes20082 жыл бұрын
A dyno will get you close but its the road test seat of the pants dyno that is important and I have done tons of tests since the 80s . In urban driving the eBay 1320 will feel better than the Skunk and probably see better runs at the traffic light drag race as the ability to accelerate ( torque) has improved . The dyno installation I built took cold air ducted down from the roof and blown into the front of the car not a free standing fan recirculating workshop air . I designed a ton of performance stuff since then and during the 90s we had back to back shootouts for magazines on cams , exhausts , filters all sorts of crap on all sorts of cars , in particular Japanese . I'd rather be in the pub or with my woman unless working on a race car that had to go out , as standard engines are good to go with what they have , simply taking out the eco mode glitches with remapping . An exhaust manifold or panel filter swap might look OK but gain you nothing but an empty wallet . A cold air cone filter at the front of the car may result in a big bill if you hit a puddle unexpectedly through a set of bent rods ( It rains here in the UK ) as the engine being a pump with suck and try to compress water just as readily as it does air , except water doesn't compress . As the man said" little or nothing over the stock exhaust" which Honda spent thousands to design in the first place . Engines after that respond to a package as each change influences the whole suck , squish ,bang ,blow cycle .
@SharpTony2 жыл бұрын
This S2000 content is dope, subbed!
@mickeyhartsell6096 Жыл бұрын
That was an awesome video, I had to watch it twice, thanks LHT.
@matthewdaniels74629 ай бұрын
2:11 Steve dolce from the West Coast said the same thing. Extending the merge collection 99.998% will always make something more! Saucy science 🎉🎉🎉
@biwwdabeah2 жыл бұрын
I’m with you about playing with your toys and enjoying it rather than spending time at the bar.
@HAMlLTON2 жыл бұрын
This is an awesome video! I’m about to get a header for my prelude. Not really after performance, but better than stick would be cool.
@kevinkramer23242 жыл бұрын
Awesome video!! The same co.larison as this video on a Skunk2 vs stock on a high boost SC car is what MANY want to see!
@LHTPerformance2 жыл бұрын
For 3800 views, it’s not worth the work. Unless Skunk2 want to pay for the video.
@daneaustin24682 жыл бұрын
Great info as usual. Thanks for taking the time.
@copperkeyracing61672 жыл бұрын
Looks like skunk2 really messed up with the cylinder pairings. Had they got that right they may have made the most power. As for 1320, its a PLM header with the sections all welded together unlike the modular design of other PLM rebranded headers. The problem with the 1320 header is they cheaped out and used the same size pipes for the primary and secondary. Had they done that correctly, then the top end wouldnt have suffered and their header would have been clearly the best, instead of "kind of" the best. Lastly, equal length piping importance was not mentioned, nor measured. That was a mistake.
@LHTPerformance2 жыл бұрын
The Skunk2 header was designed by Skunk2 which I heard was more for supercharged applications. I actually understand header design and have many experience building them. As mentioned in you last comment. I put the video together out of interest. I think chasing 3-5whp is a waste of time. Just boost it. Maybe you can produce a video showing your findings and make a video too.
@dirkdig36282 жыл бұрын
Cool you take the time to do the compare vids but clearly the 1320 header is flowing more., you chock it with the factory cat and factory exhaust so of course it’s going to nose dive on the top end
@RockstarGarageS2K2 жыл бұрын
we've always stuck with the stock header even in our race cars. I wish they made a oem spec in stainless steel tho.
@sammyalx69782 жыл бұрын
This is what we need! Possibly with a tweek... Someone jump on it.
@Rob-qs3xx2 жыл бұрын
i am so glad i did not waist my time on bolt on parts for my s2k i saved my money waited got a turbo kit
@victorwilburn34982 жыл бұрын
John: I watched with interest because of the package you built for my white '08 back in 2009. Dead stock the car made 205 rwhp on the "outdoor" dyno you used at that time. You only made..5 changes to the car. 1. Drop in K&N filter in the factory airbox. 2. LHT custom "step" header (1.75", 1.90" 2.0") 3. Complete 2.5 stainless "bypass" muffler using Magnaflow black power coated universal units with OEM tips. 4. Hondata reflash & LHT tune. 5 Tien springs. That set up lowered VTEC crossover to 4,000 rpm and raised redline to 8,500 rpm. Do you remember the peak HP and torque? 242 HP and over 160 lb/ft. The car made serious torque right from 4,000 rpm and I could routinely short shift it because it made so much usable power by 7,000 rpm that you didn't have to wring its neck all the time.You built the same set for Luis plus a 75 HP shot of....Why are things so different now?
@LHTPerformance2 жыл бұрын
The header we built for you was a better header. Our car base lined at 208whp.
@victorwilburn34982 жыл бұрын
@@LHTPerformance The white car is the best modified NA car I ever owned. To gain almost 20% more power and the torque it had from and exhaust and tune is almost unbelievable. F22 engine is the best I've ever had. All my other cars/bikes gained around 4-5% with the same mods.
@LHTPerformance2 жыл бұрын
@@victorwilburn3498 The white S2000 was definitely a strong one.
@matthewmohri99902 жыл бұрын
I wonder if 1320 is in reference to the Car Channel from Omaha, NE where I first got into Street Racing? I can't believe that a small car club got so big and is now today well known and respected. The thing is The F20 or F22 as we all know is maxed out from the factory. I've only seen 1 good powered S2K, but that was from a Japanese company that had all its own parts on it intake, exhaust, header, cams, Hondata, etc. So if you want good N/A power with an S2K...K20 or K20/K24 Swap.
@makoa262 жыл бұрын
1320 is the number of feet in a quarter mile, I dont think the 2 are related, just a happy coincidence
@sideshow452 жыл бұрын
Just like the same number. I don't think Kyle Loftis would put his name on replica job stealing garbage.
@matthewmohri99902 жыл бұрын
@@sideshow45 Cool. Just thought it may have been linked b/c of the name. I don't think I ever met him personally when I lived there. I was on the old 1320 board a lot back in the day. Fun times with my modified MKIII VR6 Jetta. Fun races. I lost some I won some but the people were cool and the Ralston Wed 84th st Car shows were a lot of fun.
@CraaaigV3022 жыл бұрын
I love these back to back testing you should do intake testing next like compare a ram air with a velocity stack compared to a basic cold air intake compared to a stock compared to a hot air lol that would be awesome too
@legokid554542 жыл бұрын
My theory is, that step up in the skunk 2 is causing the exhaust velocity to suck the exhaust out of the head in the higher end. I believe if the car was a bit more built the 1320 would stomp the skunk 2. Skunk 2 better for stock 1320 better for build Just my 2 cents
@g-mane74972 жыл бұрын
Great video. Learned a lot. My s is turbo but this is great info.
@LHTPerformance2 жыл бұрын
The best header has a turbo hanging off the end. 😉
@hatsubaichuu2 жыл бұрын
Thank you for doing this!
@jesusantonio22002 жыл бұрын
Great test, thanks for the information
@flaS2k2 жыл бұрын
Great video! Keep them coming!
@Mr.Gal1kanokus2 жыл бұрын
Love simple videos like this
@marioblobfish55222 жыл бұрын
Thank you for the video.
@martinfournier9761 Жыл бұрын
It's like pouring a 5 gallons into a funnel and not expecting it to back up .. I wanna see the same test with a full 3" exhaust
@fidelj30252 жыл бұрын
Looks like the smaller tubing on the lower section made less power. But it should make power with Toda Cams and an intake.
@riityee2 жыл бұрын
I wanna see y’all do ballade header
@LHTPerformance2 жыл бұрын
Send us one and we’ll test it.
@Alexamador50310 ай бұрын
This is great
@bradcarpenter18812 жыл бұрын
Likely has to do with the difference in header routing into the collector.
@kevinkramer23242 жыл бұрын
Awesome video!
@318East2 жыл бұрын
Great video! For an AP2 with cams (BC to be exact), would you think the 1320 would be better up top?
@frdbtr2 жыл бұрын
Hey John, I wonder if there would be any way to test a PLM s2000 header since it is supposed to be a try Y or hytec replica.
@terryholley8262 жыл бұрын
That car sounds great
@sloth4urluv2 жыл бұрын
I’d recommend installing chrome Remote Desktop or something so you could read the dyno from the laptop.
@LHTPerformance2 жыл бұрын
I usually tune from outside the car for several reasons. I can listen to the engine and the watch the exhaust for signs way before the knock can be detected.
@kenchan52482 жыл бұрын
Do you have any experience with Berk HFC? What are your thoughts on HFC in general?
@shaneduncan29962 жыл бұрын
Love this. Thank you.
@AZ-hf9ow2 жыл бұрын
Great content
@Rob.Coleman2 жыл бұрын
Great info, thanks 👍👍.
@Datsrboi2 жыл бұрын
Waiting for someone to send him a URGE header.
@LHTPerformance2 жыл бұрын
It would be interesting to see the results.
@roypersaud19912 жыл бұрын
Can you do this same test but with a test pipe? Im sure the stock cat is restricting the flow
@SkyMine9112 жыл бұрын
A question please, doesn't exhausts need to preserve their heat to make power? Why the heat shield is very important for exhaust?
@LHTPerformance2 жыл бұрын
I’ve never seen any gains from this. I’ve wrapped header and seen change before and after. The biggest reason to reduce radiating heat.
@johnshapter24712 жыл бұрын
I’m confused where did the 224 HP run come from? Was the 224 HP run with Skunk 2 header or the 1320 header? Thanks for all the videos you do. I really appreciate all the knowledge passed along.
@Liveforeever2 жыл бұрын
From skunk2
@freddyrosenberg92882 жыл бұрын
@@Liveforeever The Skunk 2 was tuned. The PLM was made to work with the same tune as the Skunk 2. Not a good idea, each header has to be tuned independently for an HONEST comparison.
@Liveforeever2 жыл бұрын
@@freddyrosenberg9288 yes that's right, it's the only way to get a like for like comparison
@robertjordan90752 жыл бұрын
Good to know.
@JohnWickOG2 жыл бұрын
Thanks
@aarr26032 жыл бұрын
Please test the PLM it supposedly makes good power
@LHTPerformance2 жыл бұрын
You wanna supply it. I’ll supply the car, dyno and time.
@bvward2 жыл бұрын
John, at my house, "go play with your car" usually mean uh-oh... Great comparison, what's next (turbo)?
@davidvaughn72512 жыл бұрын
I’m pretty sure 1320 used to be camp1320 back in the day .
@riityee2 жыл бұрын
When in doubt forced induction it out
@Timbuckley012 жыл бұрын
For science!
@SuperBullyone Жыл бұрын
what kind of wax do you use on this car.
@GTR_JAMES2 жыл бұрын
Which would you recommend for a charged s2000 please? Still on stock currently. Thanks
@RacingS20002 жыл бұрын
Nice work. This is the older version PLM ? How would u say this might change with a modified all motor engine such as aggressive cams, porting, intake and throttle body works?
@LHTPerformance2 жыл бұрын
Based on custom headers we’ve built, I think the primary tubes need to smaller. This was a header by 1320, it’s basically a copy header
@RacingS20002 жыл бұрын
@@LHTPerformance I see. I have heard good things about the slightly smaller primary new version plm race. I think it is tough to make decent gains overall from the stock setup. Nothing much changing going in, what’s to be changed going out. Just thinking that it was a worked engine with with higher compression pistons, aggressive cans, intake , intake manifold ( there are options for this now) and a decently big TB maybe the outperformance of an aftermarket header might be worth the coin
@RacingS20002 жыл бұрын
@@LHTPerformance btw when u ran this dyno, which exhaust did u run
@uazhar20132 жыл бұрын
How come u didn’t do another dyno run with the skunk2 same day? Anyways, I’ve experienced this before. Tuned s2000 made 225, then 212 a couple months later with barely any drive time. Only thing was difference in temp where I was at.
@LHTPerformance2 жыл бұрын
It was actually done the same day. You’ll notice it was dark while doing the 1320 header. Yes
@sideshow452 жыл бұрын
You know the other side of those calipers are for measuring inside diameter? Instead of using the outside and eyeing it up to and ID.
@LHTPerformance2 жыл бұрын
I’m quite familiar how to use the micrometer. Without cutting open the tube I can’t measure the actual ID. This was more for reference than anything,
@sideshow452 жыл бұрын
@@LHTPerformance I was shocked when I noticed haha, I was like there is no way of all people!! I didn't want to be that guy be didn't see anyone mention it.. Hope you enjoy your Halloween
@michaelpan77372 жыл бұрын
Any plans on comparing the Skunk2 with the Urge Unicorn Header or with K-Tuned Header?
@LHTPerformance2 жыл бұрын
If someone wants to Supply those headers, yes. I’m not buying them , lol
@michaelpan77372 жыл бұрын
@@LHTPerformance Lol. Let's hope one day.
@F0BBYLEE2 жыл бұрын
So long story short.. If you own a 2000-2005 S2, and DON'T have the ability to tune the car... Don't waste money on aftermarket Headers. xD
@tommylyeah2 жыл бұрын
*S C I E N C E*
@MyBrothersKeeper1012 жыл бұрын
Mandatory to Port match even the exhaust especially the manifold/header🤘all my friends said I was being anal now I know I was just being thorough.
@LHTPerformance2 жыл бұрын
We’ve done that on the Skunk2 header and seen zero gains.
@MyBrothersKeeper1012 жыл бұрын
@@LHTPerformance yeah you'll have that also but at least it's not nagging you in the back of your mind. Whether or not there is a HP or TQ gain we know the flow is the best it could possibly be for that application.
@LHTPerformance2 жыл бұрын
@@MyBrothersKeeper101 I know what you mean. We built SC S2000 and pulled out all the stops, including port matching the header and made right at 500whp. Then replicated the same numbers with a off the shelf header. The 4 hours of grinding wasn’t worth it but looked nice. Sometimes you have to do things for yourself. Even if it does very little, it feels better.
@ec79452 жыл бұрын
What were the stock header numbers?
@LHTPerformance2 жыл бұрын
In the video with the Skunk2 header video
@furiangameclips2 жыл бұрын
Any experience with the ballade sports header?
@LHTPerformance2 жыл бұрын
No.
@chucks_garage9872 жыл бұрын
I have one on my S. Gives you a little more power in midrange, not much at the top.
@CameronsCars2 жыл бұрын
@@chucks_garage987 any low end loss?
@chucks_garage9872 жыл бұрын
@@CameronsCars none that I noticed.
@Nelson_892 жыл бұрын
Where is the LHT headers…?
@LHTPerformance2 жыл бұрын
The last custom header we built for an S2000 was 10+ years ago. There’s no money in building custom headers using quality materials. That’s why China headers are so plentiful
@bige71862 жыл бұрын
What do u think of the invidia header?
@LHTPerformance2 жыл бұрын
I’ve not tested. I wouldn’t spend more than $500-$600 on a header unless you’re doing more to the build.
@bige71862 жыл бұрын
@@LHTPerformance thanks
@don94pgt2 жыл бұрын
I believe that header is to big for stock motor
@LHTPerformance2 жыл бұрын
Yes. I think the primary’s are a little too large for the stock head/ cam and compression package.
@don94pgt2 жыл бұрын
@@LHTPerformance do you think it would perform well with power adder? Stock motor of course
@gabegonzalez67392 жыл бұрын
what do you think about the ballade motor sports header, or j’s racing header
@LHTPerformance2 жыл бұрын
I really don’t think there’s enough in the header to spend much over $500-$600
@uazhar20132 жыл бұрын
Try urge unicorn!
@LHTPerformance2 жыл бұрын
You supply one, I’ll supply the car , Dyno and work.
@yahtadi51522 жыл бұрын
Sorry Im late John, just have a baby girl
@LHTPerformance2 жыл бұрын
Congrats buddy. Word of advice. Take lots of video while she’s young, they grow so fast and pictures don’t do what video can. Trust me on this one.
@yahtadi51522 жыл бұрын
@@LHTPerformance Thank you, I will do exactly that, will filling my galery with her video
@HAMlLTON2 жыл бұрын
I wonder if PLM makes an s2000 header
@TeeHeeGottaGoPeeWee2 жыл бұрын
They do. A couple versions too
@bige71862 жыл бұрын
@T R except for the invidia headers those are expensive..
@LHTPerformance2 жыл бұрын
@T R Most headers are made in Taiwan at the same factory.
@xsmith55612 жыл бұрын
1320 headers are trash!!!
@The_Mod_Scientist2 жыл бұрын
I've made 238hp on one of their headers on a B18. NATURALLY ASPIRATED. On spray it makes 340hp Mustang dyno. Welding quality and material quality isn't top quality (I've had to fix two runner cracks that were likely my fault from hitting the megaphone on a manhole cover), but it's a $400 header. What do you want from it?
@lorenwatts2920Ай бұрын
Thanks!
@LHTPerformanceАй бұрын
@@lorenwatts2920 Thanks so much ! I forgot that option was still there 🙏