Cheapest DRO and adding graphics

[@joshmyer9]

Congrats on finding a whole new community to annoy via "inappropriate" use of drywall screws =)

[@Mr2at]

😂

[@ddutton0]

😂😂😂

[@canoetipper019]

😂

[@lcerbaro]

HAAHHAHAHAHAHAHA

[@wobblysauce]

But they have so many uses.

[@BScatterplot]

A man with one DRO always knows where he is. A man with two DROs is never quite sure.

[@doughnut1107]

That software to help manually drill holes in the right places is brilliant

[@Beakerbite]

It's one of those things that's so clever, you don't know why it's not something standard. Then you realize that he went through the effort of CAD, so any shop that wants this would just get a proper CNC that could do the operation directly instead of needing user control.

[@doughnut1107]

@@Beakerbite Perhaps for professionals shelling out the extra dollars to have it move for you is worth it. For me personally, this would be great fitted to my drill press. Connecting the visualization to the machine would allow any resolution photo to be mapped to the view. One doesn't need CAD in that case, you take a picture with a known scale and bobs your uncle

[@chaklee435]

​@@Beakerbite you don't need CAD per se, just a list of X,Y coordinates, which you can work that out by hand faster than getting into CAD. I think you're right tho, that any shop that needs CNC will get CNC, and everybody else isn't really willing to pay for just a convenience.

[@ohhpaul7364]

they have had this function on many DRO's for years, Mathias went through the laborious task of figuring out how to write it himself so he did not have to pay the money for someone else's programming. I believe the man enjoys the process of figuring that part out more than he was just trying to save a dollar, but I cannot speak for someone else.

[@TKC_]

@@Beakerbitea real dro that has more than just a number display has these kinds of routines with graphics built in with no cad. Not trying to take away from what he did. Just saying it’s not an original thought or anything.

[@erikakarussell2296]

Adding the graphical interface was next level! Nicely done!

[@lumotroph]

Yeah - please show us how you did it @matthias!

[@stefanopassiglia]

@@lumotroph well he explained it. First he decoded the output of those digital gauges to read it digitally with the RPi, and then he wrote a script to translate the coordinates into a graphic view. I assume the graphic part is specific to that circle.

[@gcarson19]

I could hear Tom Lipton's head exploding from my house when you mounted that DRO with wood and drywall screws! You are the master of trolling the gatekeeping community.

[@fredio54]

He'll use wood over anything else for every job. I have no idea how he had kids other than rubbing one out onto the homemade wooden dildo. That ,ust have been how.

[@RobbieBeswick]

I love videos like this, some people would say ‘buy a proper mill table with DRO’ but why not make your own and learn 1000 more things you never knew👏🏼

[@LeeBreece]

This kind of stuff should be the next phase of the homemade machines on Matthias's KZbin channel. I hope you keep thinking of ways to incorporate simply tech into your machines. Big value add!

[@Scrial]

Watching this as a trained machinist. I'm constantly swerving between being impressed and appalled :D

[@MegaApenstaartje]

Hey Matthias, i've probably been watching your videos for 12 years now and I always learn so much from them. You inspired me to build so many things like a box joint jig and furniture. Thanks for all your videos. Greetings

[@Gunbudder]

using drywall screws in cast iron is the most gangster thing you've ever done. i love it lol

[@patricelebrasseur5649]

The throaway center punch is a great idea. I often use self drilling screw as a pre hole when im in a bind

[@1pcfred]

I pre drill for self drilling screws.

[@gorinator]

The unstoppable cheapskate. Thank you for sharing your projects with us. I take pride in finding the cheapest way to build things and solve problems. Matthias is the heavyweight champion of this sport. Honestly an inspiration to keep learning, trying, and making without worrying too much about how others do things.

[@usbcd360]

I really like the visual readout system. I can imagine making fewer mistakes by using something like that, especially if it shows cutter diameter during side milling. One of the big complaints I have with digital calipers and digital readouts is that they don't give you an approach velocity, whereas dial calipers do.

[@TheHuizenre]

THIS IS A FANTASTIC PROJECT. My opinion: It deserves much more then a short video. Hooking up a Raspberry alone is a project by itself and I would really like to learn about that! If you would be selling plans for this project I surely would be your customer.

[@beyondutility]

Excellent example of how your talent and expertise spans multiple fields. Love this.

[@MrAndrew990]

diy dro is one of the coolest things ive seen this year and I work on rockets.

[@austinbarnett1]

I have found it best to make a text file with the instruction set for my gpt coding projects. Then if I don't like what it produced, start a new chat with edits to my text file and resubmit it. If I ask the gpt to just adjust what it already created, often times it will rewrite the entire thing changing pinouts, changing variable names, and other assorted random stuff. however if I just resubmit the text file into a new chat after I edit the text file with refined parameters I can generally get to a complete project in just a few iterations. I love it and it saves a grip of time. Soon I think that we will be able to conversate with a gpt like talking to a coworker, and it will work as expected. That stuff is getting better all the time.

[@matthiaswandel]

funny, yes, I ended up writing my instructions in a separate editor. But in the end, I cut and pasted together pieces from two versions that it came up with. Still saved a lot of time not having to look up all the APIs

[@MordecaiV]

The not looking up APIs, and chat gpt knowing about packages I don't is the most helpful part I've found for using chat gpt.

[@Tomcatadam]

The DRO setup was a pretty cool project to watch, and then you revealed that awesome visual interface. Incredibly cool.

[@NotaRobot_gif]

The graphic interface is amazing! Would love to see a video of you designing the software.

[@RichardHurd]

You never cease to amaze me with your skill and ingenuity

[@hdwoodshop]

The drywall screw center punch is the best tip ever put on KZbin. Classic.

[@54114142]

I just love your hacky yet extremely high skill way of solving things!

[@Fisher_OF_Men777]

Wow! I'd love to be half this smart! Great job! Love the drywall screw tip too!

[@b2dmastersniper]

Matthias your videos are always fascinating. I love your content.

[@dr_regularlove]

Oh my god thank you for the confirmation that digital calipers drain their batteries even when "off", I knew I wasn't crazy!

[@mckenziekeith7434]

This is a much bigger problem with cheap ones. Mitutoyo doesn't seem to drain the battery very fast.

[@OrionFyre]

My dad isn't a highly educated man, highschool dropout, worked in autobody and welding. I once bitched about my calipers draining their batteries even when off. He told me to grab them. I went and got the case from my hobby room. "Open it". I did. "It's nice of them to cut the foam out to hold the calipers in place nice and secure..." yeah, so what's your point? "I wonder why they cut those two little holes in the foam..." yeah, I dunno...what's your point? "Take the batteries out." :( "I'll ask again, I wonder why they have those two circular cutouts in the foam..." Sometimes I question my intelligence.

[@StripeyType]

Oh gosh - that visual interface is awesome! It has been about 12 years since I last played with the serial lines on these cheap encoders, and maybe I need to revisit that.

[@elitearbor]

Next series: "So I've made a rudimentary nuclear reactor from this scrap plywood, a gym sock, and drywall screws..."

[@clasdauskas]

After several preliminary where he builds, and writes the code for, a shielding tester and then compares 5 different types of plywood, chipboard and MDF, in various combinations with different glues, for their shielding efficiency.

[@Lizlodude]

No no, that's Cody 😉

[@clasdauskas]

@@Lizlodude Well, yeah, him too :)

[@bazzatron9482]

Damn, that's incredible. I knew you could program - but seeing it in action and making a DRO that has graphics like that was mind-blowing. I bet there are loads of people out there that would love to have a DRO that had that kind of readout - even if only for coarse positioning and sanity checking. Wooden gears GitHub repo when? 🤣

[@nodriveknowitall702]

Not being a programmer by any stretch of any imagination, I used chatgpt for a user adjustable motion control task. After many hours and countless iterations and walking me through debugging the code it wrote (PC UI made in Python, controls in arduino sketch), it all finally worked. Fixing this, breaking that, adding one feature, and breaking everything else.

[@awldune]

Oh man that graphical drill guide is amazing, consider making a short of it

[@jonpardue]

The graphing display is amazing!

[@DrFiero]

@1:58 - I switched to horizontal to keep chips out of the hole! (proceeds to dump chip into the open drawer below... 😁 )

[@TechnikJens]

Wo gehobelt wird, da fallen Späne!

[@wobblysauce]

Ha... seen that also.

[@greglamphier4430]

It’s awesome how you can create your rabbit hole and follow it all the way to the bottom

[@TNH91]

This is so amazing work. Hacking together a solution that seems to work great. I love it. Also makes it seem a bit more approachable for more people, which can only be a good thing.

[@IslandHermit]

It might be useful to have the crosshair flash or change colour whenever it's centered on a vertical or horizontal line.

[@dustcollector-q7g]

Best KZbin channel ever! 👍

[@vibin_psilocybin]

I wish I knew how to do even 10% of this stuff. I love this channel.... You're a wizard

[@jamieomeara7686]

Genius, your videos are the best thing on KZbin

[@T0NGPU]

I am in the process of mounting very similar DRO scales from Aliexpress on my minilathe and later to my mill. I just wanted the readouts but the idea of using a computer system like this blew my mind.

[@HavenInTheWood]

The vertical alignment of the tap, or drill in my case, with that angle block was clever, I was thinking I might have to buy something expensive for an upcoming project, but that is so much better, for my current budget at least!

[@Don.Challenger]

Very good, Matthias, carry on, your madness is contagious good stuff.

[@removechan10298]

5:47 this is fantastic! very nice I look forward to display this being on AR glasses in 5 years....

[@sdspivey]

Instead of drilling all the holes in order, once you drill one, move the X or Y to drill a corresponding hole. This will mean you are more likely to have one of the axes match.

[@lohikarhu734]

Mr. Practical at work... A truly 🇨🇦 thing.

[@jmcarp0]

I love that you bustid yourself with the caliper at the end! rofl! "Shouldnta done that!" Beautiful graphics display for manual drilling. I love the zoom in.

[@simonhopkins3867]

I bet the 7 hole circle was really satisfying. 😊

[@69dblcab]

Too dang smart. Thank you for another entertaining video. Hope you were well compensated during your career.

[@roughwater3454]

I have had marginal luck with those dro's. The hook up to the computer is next level... Take care...

[@Hamsan1]

The graphical interface was top notch👍

[@williamdawson3353]

I understood the sharp point of the drywall as a center punch but regardless I ALWAYS enjoy your videos.

[@anthonyjobson]

How about the zoomed in view turning red when aligned correctly? Fantastic video. Ingenious and entertaining!

[@matthiaswandel]

but what is "correctly"? How close? I like lining up the lines myself.

[@chriscardwell3495]

Uterly amazing - I would have thought people would pay lots of money for this sort of simplicity. It makes any job very easy even for a novice. Must buy some drywall screws . . .

[@michaelsimpson9779]

Someone else may have already said, but you can load the tap flutes with grease to control the swarf from tapping.

[@Benwinch07]

This was huge. Gained a lot more utility out of this machine!

[@feylezofriza]

In my experience, drywall screws are brittle and if it ever snaps flush with the mounting surface, it will require drilling out with a hardened bit. So, it works as a jerry-rigged solution, but it might also be a maintenance time-bomb. Whatever works though! Thank you for the centerpunch idea. That's straight up legit, which makes me think maybe there is a centerpunch cartel out there hiding this information from the masses. 😀

[@donbrearley3148]

This is amazing work as usual. Another great one Matthias! Thank you

[@mr.bennett108]

There's a very specific confluence of skill at demonstration here. It's an intersection of engineering, computer science, material design, and functional "stoichiometry." It's this unique skill to make EXACTLY what you need, no more or less, out of what boils down to useful garbage. To do it, you have to know what "things" are made of and the characteristics of that material, how they're put together, and what each of the "vocab terms" associated with the bit of garbage being smashed together mean. Then, you have to know what techniques are needed to manufacture the piece, and then how to create the signalling/coding to make it all work together. What's really sells it though, is this understanding that it's purpose-built. Even if a tool has "general" use, it's built AS a tool to DO a distinct "thing."

[@TrevPagesPlace]

Matthias never ceases to amaze me with making cool things with common stuff just lying around ;)

[@FarmCraft101]

Well, that's pretty damn cool, on many levels.

[@KasperPilsted]

I guess you are slowly moving towards a full DYI CNC machine :)

[@lauroaranha]

HNC - Human Numeric Control

[@usbcd360]

@@lauroaranha MGC? Matthias Graphical Control, since the ultimate positioning is done by "do these crosshairs line up?"

[@matthiaswandel]

I keep thinking about going full automation, but for the one-off stuff I make, manual or semi-manual is faster

[@dieterjosef]

That would be a loss. I think Matthias would be a great user of a CNC and would explain and show a lot of his findings and what to observe but there are some other channels doing that, so I more like him to go his own way and show us what only he does.

[@MrRobnoordhoek]

I see a future 5 axis cnc with motors of an old washing machine, the encoders of an old cd drive and the manual input made of an old BlackBerry.

[@mattym8]

The GUI is clever. You can get absolute encoding scales from Mitutoyo for 10x the price of your scales. They don’t forget when the battery is removed. The etching of the magnetic pattern has unique elements evenly spaced. Unnecessary for your needs but it’s available.

[@bilz0r]

Great work Matthias. I feel this is a great maxima in the x lansdcape. And you did your gui in tkinter! Wow.

[@andrewgalbreath2101]

Drywall screws are such magnificent things

[@paulculbert1281]

Sharp little bastards though. Used to hate reaching into my apron for a handful.

[@gorak9000]

My dad built tons of stuff using only drywall screws - never had an issue with them. Sure, they'll snap if you have too much force on a single screw, but so will any screw. I'm not sure where all the hate for them comes from more recently. Probably "big screw" trying to convince people to buy more expensive wood screws instead.

[@rolfbjorn9937]

@@gorak9000 They really ARE brittle and snappy. I tried, but I always go back to proper wood screws.

[@marcus_w0]

Wow. When I first saw this project, I thought how incredible dumb it is to construct a non-cnc out of cnc parts. Now I want one of these myself. Kudos!

[@thetheo2002]

You built a Wandel Origin. Nice.

[@stefanopassiglia]

Genius as always. I'm very surprised those cheap things have IO capabilities. Well done decoding it.

[@jakester1390]

Well, now all you have to add are stepper motors to the x, y axis and you have a cnc mill. You don't really need the z axis to be stepper controlled. You could just control x and y, have the computer move to spot to drill, drill it out manually, press space and got to the next hole. Then you could write a cool piece of software to map the workspace to a grid, use the mouse to plot points, have the table to move to the point.

[@HexenzirkelZuluhed]

I would be quite interested in a video about the protocol. Or even just a code dump. I have those rails, too.

[@gorak9000]

there's already quite a bit of documentation about the protocols the inexpensive scales use if you spend 10 seconds looking for it

[@erikcramer]

Super cool job, the graphical interface is just simple and amazing @matthias, Will you build something similar for your lathe also ?

[@2dividedby3equals666]

I think I've seen a Heidenhain DRO that had a similar interface. It gave you position in numbers but also had a bar moving towards a target. I really wanted one like that but there is no such thing as a cheap Heidenhain. I wonder how complicated would it be to have a DRO that gave you an absolute position based on two scales. Use it in a lathe tailstock, one scale for the hole tailstock and one for the quill. I know it's easier to just mount a drill chuck on the carriage, but I thought it would be possible with something like a modified TouchDRO. Great video, take care!

[@MichaelPrasuhn]

Very cool, I've been thinking about redoing the box-joint jig to be computer controlled, and I was thinking of doing something like this to measure the carriage position

[@JoseSilveira-newhandleforYT]

You had already impressed with this cast iron - wood combo, but now you used drywall screws into cast iron... I use them too as center punches, but this I never thought of 🙂

[@bensonyoutuber7944]

Slick software. Delightfully intuitive. It would have been less interesting if Vevor had just sent their DRO kit over. But at less than $100, that's probably the way I will go if I add this functionality to my lathe.

[@Dan-qi4np]

Amazing that you did all of that in about eight and a half minutes!! wow!

[@VarionJimmy]

The graphical interface reminds me of how I used to set coordinates on a pick&place machine.

[@Vsor]

I had an idea roughly based on glass DRO scales. Speckle a plate of glass with something like a paint or a silvering solution. Then use a small camera to look at the glass scale on the table (use the camera as a optical sensor). The system would have a recorded map of the glass, and use it for getting an absolute position.

[@phizc]

A simpler option may be to use the innards of a computer mouse to track the movement. You wouldn't get absolute positioning though, but it could have a very high resolution, and fast update rate.

[@eitantal726]

Very well done, sir! Congrats

[@aaronblackford981]

Your head is too big for me at times. And that ain’t a put down at all. Your extremely intelligent and smart and seemingly “street smart”. Actually able to learn almost anything and apply it. That’s not the easiest going up or down the ladder. Seldom both but you actually are able to put your cookies on a shelf and describe it where I believe I could still reach them with an additional 100 hrs of research. Again. Not meant to be a pit down at all. Thank you for your contribution to society. Your up there with Lex Fridman and what all he shares with everyone.

[@MaxMakerChannel]

How did you figure out the pins and their protocol?

[@matthiaswandel]

probed around with a scope

[@CaseyConnor]

Hi Matthias --what module(s) did you use for the graphics? (And any interest in sharing the code?) Thanks!

[@ericdgood]

I feel like you are 1 or 2 steps away from making an at-home CNC. Haha. Love your videos

[@meetv7700]

This DIY DRO is better than commercially available one.

[@mckenziekeith7434]

This should trigger a decent number of people. I definitely found myself chuckling with each new trigger (using wood on machine tools, the whole concept of DIY DRO, the drwall screws, etc).

[@mr.picklesworth]

I would love to see videos going over how you made the program.

[@KnooBill]

absolute renaissance man, top tier

[@quazilion]

Drywall screws strike again - Matthias at his best :)

[@MatchaMakesThings]

Im hype about the new use of drywall screws.

[@jamesharris5158]

This is a fantastic project. Do you have plans to release any of the code or more details about where and how to extrqct the data from those encoders for those of us trying to play along at home?

[@fredio54]

Some digital calipers have absolute position. But exact calibration would still rely on power unless there was some non volatile memory in them.

[@xuthnet]

Good digital calipers (eg Mitutoyo) use about 1/10th the power when they're off than when on. Cheap ones use about the same amount regardless of whether they're on or not. That's why the batteries in the cheap ones only last about a year (if that) while the good ones will last 5 years or more.

[@1pcfred]

Mitutoyo manages to squeeze shelf life out of a battery. Or close to it. So long I forget how to change the things. Because when the battery does get changed it loses zero and has to be reset. Other than that it never loses zero. Cheap calipers are always losing set zero. On the up side you remember how to zero those because you have to do it all the time.

[@matthiaswandel]

I'd be ciruous if the Mitutoyo lose their zero reference if you move them far and fast while they are off. My guess is that they do the measurement less often while off.

[@1pcfred]

@@matthiaswandel maybe. I treat Digimatics pretty good so I wouldn't know what ripping on them really does. They're kind of expensive to replace. The cheap Mitutoyos being sold are counterfeits. There's a lot of them. The fakes have the same battery drain problem cheap calipers have. So they probably use the same guts. Fake Mitus have a good fit and finish though. Until that battery dies you'll never know.

[@xuthnet]

@@matthiaswandel Like @1pcfred I've never felt the need to abuse my Mitutoyo calipers. But I'm guessing instead that the Mitutoyo calipers have absolute encoders in them over their entire range and thus don't need to take position readings while they're off (but then why don't they store the zero point in some flash memory...). The encoders in the cheap DRO that I have that looks a lot like the one that you show in the video seem to have something like a limited absolute encoding on them. Eg they know where they are in a ~20mm section and just need to keep track of when they transition from one section to another. And under certain failure conditions they will jump by a multiple of this. Multiple people had this issue (including myself on one of three that I have) where the fix is to add a capacitor in the reader section (which is far from the battery/power input which is in the display) to handle voltage drop.

[@xuthnet]

Also, clough42 has an excellent video comparing his Mitutoyo calipers to some counterfeits he bought including looking at amperage readings on each of them.

[@johannes_franciscus_kok]

Matthias, a man of 1001 talents 🙂

[@intelligenceservices]

ooh! could you add a web cam and overlay the DRO graphics on it? (toggle-able of course) also i'm reminded of closed loop servos, i wonder if there's a way to make some kind of closed loop mechanism to always make sure the readings stay the same. even with digital calipers i always hit zero to make sure they're behaving.

[@dieterjosef]

When watching this I had the idea that for some people a good camera would be more useful than a DRO. If you often print out templates, glue them on your material and follow their lines and crosses for drilling and routing you could stay more on the analogue way of using such a cross table by zooming in with the camera and place your drill bit very exact, especially if you have to wear glasses. Of course I don't want to diminish what you did, it's great. It was just an additional idea.

[@jojoposter]

@@dieterjosef sadly templates are pretty limited in precision due to printer limits. A camera might be useful, but positioning by sensors should be far superior to printed lines.

[@dieterjosef]

@@jojoposter A printer with 600 DPI can print very fine lines to less than a tenth of a millimeter. That's more than enough for most people, and it is more similar to the way they work anyway. Matthias often prints out templates and cuts along on the material.

[@kurtandlazanneilander724]

I love the interface idea! Is the code on github?

[@robertmccully2792]

Makes me feel stupid everytime i watch him . Good stuff.

[@k2s3p]

Great project as always. You are the master of hacking things, probably the best. Next project: add some motors to automate the hand crank.

[@Conservator.]

Matthias must be the only ‘machinist’ who uses wood whenever he can. Every other machinist would fabricate metal brackets but Matthias’ solutions seem the most practical (to me anyway). 😁

[@MattManuel]

“Shouldn’t have done that.” LOL

[@AdamHill42]

Why did he say that? Because they are off by a tiny amount and he's a perfectionist? 🧐

[@jojoposter]

​@@AdamHill42Well, yes. What measurement do you trust now? The dro, or the callipers 😅

[@fouroakfarm]

Ignorance is bliss sometimes

[@schwuzi]

​@@jojoposterwho cares as long as it works?

[@LordFunzo]

@@schwuzi I do

[@imqqmi]

Did you design the digital template (the circles and crosses) by hand or imported from a CAD program? That last one would be great for more complex designs. I still prefer my CNC for accurate holes though :) Could be off slightly because the linear sensor isn't perfectly co-linear with the motion axes, but it's close enough for most wood projects.

[@matthiaswandel]

Actually, I cut and pasted those numbers out of a spreadsheet

[@pdxRetired]

I would be interested in knowing more about the cheap DRO units, where you found them, etc.