Francis Chan - Why People Hate Church

Sermon from 2006.11.26
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[@MayureeMatlock]

Francis Chan is a human being like all of us... subject to failing...subject to stumbling....but he and his wife have done more than many of us...with their faith. God bless you and your family Francis! Amen!

[@oneskepticalguy781]

I went to his church for 5 years! He changed his tune and began teaching that tithing is not a command after I left his church! You give what is joyful, thats it! No more, no less!

[@etiennebisset5642]

Go for it, through you leadership, Pastor Chan. God will bless you more.

[@thehallerfam]

Nothing good in me apart from Christ. I am very glad you have remained steadfast in your walk with the Lord. Galatians 6:9 has become my life verse. May His Word dwell in you richly and may you find a place to fellowship, worship, serve, and grow. A lot of times we sit on the side lines and expect people to make us feel welcome when we need to jump in, join small groups, make friends, and serve. People will let you down. Remember who you are their for. Blessings!

[@David8024667]

I will check that out. Thanks for writing me! I have NOT lost my relationship with God. Not at all. I did for a while. But, I then realized that it wasn't God's fault (but, rather the Church leaders who are just human). And, God still loves me even after all of this. It wasn't my fault that I went through all of this. And, he knows that. And, is helping me throughout the WHOLE thing. But, it is nice to have people like yourself who actually care and don't condemn me even more than the UPC did.

[@770rx]

God's grace and joy is so obvious through this man.

[@David8024667]

Thanks soooo much for taking the time to write me. And, may the grace and peace of our loving God always be with YOU, too. (: You seem like a VERY compassionate and loving guy. And, that's how Christians are SUPPOSED to be. That's the way I am for the most part. Sure, people can agitate u and sometimes you say things that you later wish you wouldn't have. But, for the most part, I am an extremely loving and compassionate person. Shoot, I would do ANYTHING to help someone who needed my help.

[@Soneoak]

My parents gave everything to the church when the church asked for it. It was never indicated in the Bible that such was a requirement, but it was made as such at that church. They were a young couple, they give their livelihood (bookstore), house (house), and money (everything). They later left the church. They gave everything. We started poorer than many, my dad with only a Theological bachelors, my mom without any academic qualifications. The Lord gave us much more. The Lord, not people.

[@natureboihikes162]

Action vs. talk is a good summary of what the Christian life is about. I am a wretched individual and I am helpless without Christ. I cannot love, forgive or serve others without Christ, let alone know what love and forgiveness is. The only good thing in a Christian is the indwelling of the Godhead. I have a hard time finding those who r genuine in what they say bcuz a lot who profess to care r the ones who gossip, lie, steal, and cheat the most among church ppl that I have met in church.

[@shaliquawilliams4792]

maaaaaaaaaan this is awesome. Ima stay up allll night listen to this as many times as possible. he got some great sermons. oraise God

[@rastuschow]

Thank you for taking time to read my replies David. May the grace and peace of our loving God be with you always. - Rastus

[@alexwr]

That verse is referring to our salvation. We aren't saved by faith, but we show our faith through not only our words but by our works also

[@RenaeFlowers]

"you guys keep preaching, and I'll laugh at you."

[@deborahjohnson1841]

Make sure ready for Jesus's return

[@jaymond80]

amazing presentation of this teaching

[@johnbluefeld4262]

The cross is where the perfect love of God meets the perfect justice of God, with neither diminished, because both are his nature!

[@David8024667]

I also agree with what you said about my former Pastor (and how that he was only interested in how the ministry could make HIS' life better and wasn't truly interested in people or God). I have forgiven him because it only hurts ME if I hold on 2 it. Yeah, there are days where I remember everything I have gone through with that Church and with that Pastor and I have some bitterness. But, for the most part, I have forgiven him. It is hard 2 FORGET completely what happened. But, I do try 2 forgive

[@prayerangel1]

Man, he such a good teacher! I can't seem to get enough of his sermons as they are directly in line with what I have found in my reading of the scriptures and it leaves me wondering about the last 30 years spent in church buildings that didn't teach me as much as a single guy on KZbin. Thank you so much for posting this vid!

[@AskTheseChristians]

You are correct, I got my thoughts and words jummbled up. I didn't mean to insinuate God sends them there but rather that's the separation in itself. Thanks for clarifying

[@hammermg1]

You cannot experience God's true grace and love when you believe He punishes His creation for all eternity.

[@kimberlan30wea]

Thank you for posting this. So true.

[@chuynching]

"For all they did cast in of their abundance; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living." This is what Jesus said about the poor widow who gave an offering in the temple.

[@David8024667]

No, I definitely know that. But, thanks for telling me that. I appreciate your concern, love, and compassion that you have expressed to me. God is good! God Bless! (:

[@David8024667]

Couldn't agree more ...

[@David8024667]

Thanks! And, just so ya know, YOU are a good example of what a TRUE Christian should be like. (:

[@foundfloor]

You are welcome brother.

[@ignas9218]

Jude 1:13 "casting up their own shame like foam; wandering stars, for whom the black darkness has been reserved forever" Rev 20:10 "and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever" Matt 3:12 "He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire." Mark 9:43 "...to go into hell, into the unquenchable fire."

[@David8024667]

Yep, I couldn't agree with you more. We need to question EVERYTHING and demand financial statements (like you said) showing the entire church budget. And, I also agree with you on the fact that most of the common people just throw money into the plate without even really thinking about it (assuming that God wants them to give and that this is a commandment of God to attend church and give tithes). And, in reality, tithes were NOT about money in the NT or the OT. And, was NEVER commanded.

[@hammermg1]

I'm sure there are people who have lived since the resurrection of Christ have never heard of Jesus and the Gospel.

[@JaRezzStudios]

Really good sermon

[@hammermg1]

A perfectly just God who sentences his imperfect creation to infinite punishment for finite sins is impossible.

[@Spacecowb0i]

cheerful giver is giving without asking for any reward

[@David8024667]

My former boss happened to go to that Church as well. So, my Pastor talked to him and asked him how much money I was making from working for him. I guess my boss MUST have told him (which I think is illegal) how much I was making. So, then, my Pastor figured out how much money I should have been giving him and then came to me and asked me how come I wasn't giving that much to him (er, I meant, the Church). I explained that I had 2 pay my car note & that my Dad had cosigned for me 2 get this car.

[@David8024667]

So, I explained to him that I wasn't able to pay my "tithes and offerings" every single time I got paid because I had to pay this car note or my Dad would have to pay it, himself, out of his' own pocket. He then told me that I needed to figure out whom I was going to serve (my Dad or God), trying to heap some major guilt and fear upon me. He also told me that I wouldn't go to heaven IF I didn't pay that money. He not only wanted my tithes, though, but also my "back tithes" AND 5% interest.

[@standingontruth1]

"Extremely convicting. It made me question my courage. I pray it causes many to evaluate their silence." Francis Chan “‘180’ is 33 minutes of video adrenaline, shock, and hope. As defenders of the unborn and messengers of the Gospel of Life, we need to see this video and share it with as many people as we can.” Kirk Cameron “Ray Comfort’s film on abortion demonstrates that the twisted lies which govern our culture are no match for God's truth.” Paul Washer 180 movie or 180movie com

[@David8024667]

I totally agree with you.

[@ignas9218]

I don't know if I'd call it "hero worship". I just admire Chan's convictions. He's been in the ministry for a LONG time, and his life is continuing to be a witness. He's not donning expensive clothing, driving expensive cars, or even living in a lavish home. And like I said before, Cornerstone (his former church) was known for their huge contributions to missional work. Plus, his theology is mostly sound (although not 100% perfect, but who is?).

[@David8024667]

He explained to me that the Bible says (somewhere in the Old Testament, of course, because the New Testament doesn't even teach that you SHOULD pay "tithes") that IF you are late in paying tithes, then you have to add 5% interest to your normal giving in tithes. I told him that I was just going to STOP going there then and go to another UPC. He said, "Good luck because I will NOT sign the 'letter of transfer' unless you pay ALL that money back." I just stopped going to Church altogether.

[@pasainchina97]

I love it, people stepping out for Jesus. The Book says: In the last days people's love will grow cold....like calling each other, judging, policing and most of all losing there love for one another...''cant believe it....then i read some of these comments!!

[@califbozo]

people need to demand financial statements showing the entire church budget. There are people at the top who know the pastors are over paid and they condone it. But most common people throw money in the plate without even questioning these things because they think this is what God wants. And they think this because they have been brainwashed to think the 2 great commandments are tithing and church attendance

[@galindamariabocanegra5795]

i did not know that thanks for sharing.

[@hammermg1]

Francis Chan wrote a book about how hell is real and that God tortures the unsaved nonstop forever.

[@MayureeMatlock]

If you believe in God. Trust that however He is guiding your heart and mind...that you'd do what is right in His eyes (when no one is watching). Only God knows the depths of your heart...so whether you give a buck or two or a thousands...but with wrong intentions...and without love...means nothing!

[@Mr.RueBean]

Concerning all the comments saying that God is a sadistic punisher listen to this, God is good and God is love, this is His character and He is perfect in His love and goodness. This is Holiness. If one loves what is good one cannot love what is evil. To love what is good it is also required to hate what is evil. If you harden your heart to the truth, God will see it through that your heart be hardened. In God’s perfect judgement we are deserving of hell and if anyone doesn’t think so they shrink for themselves the holiness of God. But through His love and mercy He provided a way for us sinners to be saved FOR HIS NAMES SAKE. Why for His names sake? Because it cannot be for our sakes. For our sakes we should be thrown in hell. But for His names sake because of His character of goodness, mercy, and holiness He gave us a savior in Jesus Christ. Whoever believes is saved. If you do not believe you are receiving what is rightly due to you. Eternal death. If you think sin is not deserving of hell, you shrink for yourself the vast eternal holiness that is God.

[@hammermg1]

God help us.

[@Water4Jeremiah]

The curse of ham (Genesis 9), Ephesians 6:5, Colossians 3:22. Even Romans 6:16 talks about being a 'slave' to Christ instead of 'sin'. The entire point of what I wrote isn't about getting the correct doctrine right, it's about acknowledging the fact that the entire religion is based on the incorrect premise of a god existing. I recommend watching Derren Brown "Fear and Faith Part 2". He makes an atheist have a religious experience. In the end, anyone can be psychologically manipulated, even me.

[@AskTheseChristians]

You believe God is a merciful, loving, caring, in-control, infinite, eternal, amazing, awesome, divine, almighty, faithful, sovereign, and holy God. But in order for God to be these things, He has to be just.

[@soulajboytellem888]

What I love about this church is the fact that he lets women preach, it's so glad to see that there are churches that don't take 1 Corinthians 14:34 out of context when it says "women keep silent in the churches", it doesn't mean "don't let them preach", the context of the verse was that the men and women were separated and they would keep the women from sitting with the men and so they would tell the women to "keep silent" and not cause disruption.

[@CommonSenserules1981]

Actually, the Bible is quite clear regarding Scripture. Woman should not have authority of men.

[@saiyongdawn7756]

Untold Story: The women tended to gossip and chatter too much thus interfering in the sermons. This is why Paul said not to let them teach. But he didn't say it was a sin for women to teach.

[@AskTheseChristians]

An example this is the rich man and Lazarus. Both died, and the rich man went to hell while Lazarus went to paradise (Luke 16). But, interestingly, he never says, “How did I end up here?” That question is never asked in hell. He does not say, “Did I really deserve this? Don't you think this is a little extreme? A little over the top?” He only asks that someone go to his brothers who are still alive and warn them against his fate.

[@SnoopyDoofie]

Divide the cost of maintaining a church building among the number of members. Each person should pay at least that amount if they can but not more. With whatever additional money you can donate, give it directly to those who need it without handing it blindly over to your church who have almost no accountability these days. As an individual, you'll be more effective giving to needy causes than those doing it on your behalf in your church. Leaders are just as greedy today.

[@David8024667]

I totally agree with you. And, by the way, if that is your picture, you are extremely good looking (hope you don't mind me telling you that)

[@califbozo]

Thanks Mike--It took me 30 years to do the math. . People would never invest their money in a business venture with such a poor return. When I had money and gave away far over 10% per month, I made sure it was not going to top heavy wasteful organizations like the average churches in America. Some churches brag about their good works in the community to inspire gullible people to give--but they never bother to look at how little of what they give makes it to the poor in the community.

[@hammermg1]

Amen brother!

[@hammermg1]

You say torture forever is justice? Billions upon billions of years of suffering for 80 or so years on planet earth? Is that love? Is that mercy?

[@hammermg1]

Good point.

[@permanentrecordsvids]

The separation of the sheep from the goats is the culling of the final days. There is also a reference to wheat and chaff which, when followed through, results in the complete burning of the chaff due to it's uselessness to the gardner. These are likely tales or sayings added to the text because we know from the letters of Paul and the Old covenants that God punishes the wicked in order to turn them to righteousness and that the plan has always been the salvation of the wicked. Hitler is dust.

[@hammermg1]

Psalm 1:4: The wicked are blown away like chaff. Ezekiel 18:4: The soul who sins shall die

[@David8024667]

Thanks, I will definitely check it out ... :)

[@hammermg1]

There is no if I am wrong. I am right and it's not for me, but for God, whom you call a tyrant.

[@ignas9218]

He's not making people feel guilty for not giving. He's simply saying, if you truly treasure God and His kingdom, wouldn't you do all you can for that kingdom? He says tithing is not biblical in the sense that people should *just* give 10% and feel like they've done all they need to. He's saying God may ask for more, maybe less. But if we're centered in Christ, we should be compelled to give of our resources to further the gospel and feed and clothe the poor.

[@AskTheseChristians]

To clarify, Satan is not the ruler of Hell. He is just going to be along for the ride in the end of times. He is no king

[@JamesJon1187]

"Do as I say, not as I do" Man...when people live that one out....what a problem.

[@rdm44]

Mike, I challenge you to go out in the next week and pull into any church in your city, walk in, and ask if you can make an appointment with their preacher, then ask them to "debate" this with you. Keep moving from church to church, and you will get the same answer. I did not write the Bible, I did not set the mind of Christ, I did not change anything in it. I own the same Bible with the same verses as you. The difference is that I choose to believe all of it. I wish you well my friend.

[@TheMrSONIC4]

I also appologize if I sounded accusatory. I didn't mean to be that way.

[@hammermg1]

It's a parable.

[@ignas9218]

Additionally, Matt 18:8 "And if your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than having two hands or two feet, to be cast into the eternal fire," 2 Thes 1:9 "And these will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power," These verses pretty clearly point to a eternal place of damnation.

[@laswatteam]

This does not surprise me! Francis Chan is truely a modern disciple.

[@David8024667]

Wow, that is sad. I witnessed the same things going on w/my Church & MY former Pastor. We had someone who was poor there (probably a LOT of someones - me included - lol). And, the Pastor actually came up 2 this person & told him & his' wife that they should consider going to the Apostolic Church (UPC) a few miles down the road (because "they have people like you over there and I think you would find that you fit in with those type of people over there a LOT better than you do with people here."

[@maxalberts2003]

WHAT? This was a PASTOR? Is he even AWARE of his Master's message? It brings me to tears.

[@David8024667]

And, the people there were exactly as I described in all the earlier posts that I just posted. I don't understand WHY they would even WANT to be like this. All it does is divide people. And, makes ME (and a lot of other people) want to RUN AWAY from their Church as fast as I can. They don't bring people TO God. They push people AWAY from God. Yes, there are some who DO end up going there and DO build a relationship with God. But, they eventually leave and then want NOTHING to do with God.

[@hammermg1]

Did you know that Francis Chan believes our Lord will make His creation suffer endless torture in "hell"?

[@rdm44]

“These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” - Matt. 25:46 - "These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power," - 2 Thes. 1:9 46 - Matthew 18:8 (NASB95) “If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than to have two hands or two feet and be cast into the eternal fire." Mat. 18:8 Eternal

[@JesusRad20]

AWESOME DUDE

[@pkpapers]

People who really like Jesus (based on his ministry and his direct quotations in the 4 books that matter, the gospels REALLY, REALLY hate churches.

[@JebehKawah]

Churches I know that should have a reputation for giving but probably don't: Catholic, Lutheran, Methodist. These churches have been working by building schools, hospitals and orphanages for centuries. Even today, I see the work of the Catholic church in my native country Liberia and in helping refugees come to America through their support systems. They have consistently helped many Liberians complete quality high school education in impoverished communities. They've also provided free or low cost healthcare to many, generally without drawing attention to themselves - which is why many aren't aware of their work. Plus, people prefer to highlight the bad reports out of the Catholic and other churches and diminish their good. It's so unfortunate that the demented abuse some carried out as Catholic leaders (and I'm thinking this happens undetected in many other establishments) overshadows the good they do. If my local church were half as giving, we'd make an impact in our community.

[@hammermg1]

The unsaved will be punished according to God's perfect justice and then destroyed to be no more.

[@PanteraFistPrint]

LEt me at em let me at em....won't let me reply.

[@tylerlebeau9084]

I know how you feel.

[@ryanotten3587]

Hebrews 11:8-10, 8:By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went. 9. By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise: 10. For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God. Hebrews 11:31: 31. By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace. James 2:10: For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. James 1:25- But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed. James: 1: 26: If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain. James: 1: 27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world. You do not need to drum up some need in yourself to do works. Also, you do not need Francis Chan to drum up some need in yourself to do works. True saving faith is when we do not trust in our works but trust in the great God who saves us and redeems us from our sin. We do not create an earthly Kingdom, as Francis Chan suggests (false faith) but we look for a heavenly kingdom (True Faith). When we look to Christ as our King we don't want to create our own socialist kingdom on earth (like Francis Chan suggests), but we realize that if we did not have the grace of God, we would be in the same condition as others (spiritually poor). We also, realize that if God has given us lots of stuff, we realize that all things are His and therefore we can give out of the abundance of our hearts (not mandated by Francis Chan or by any others). BY FAITH - NOT WORKS

[@hammermg1]

Thank God I don't have to answer to you!

[@David8024667]

Yep, exactly ...

[@David8024667]

So, yeah, I guess I guess I just wanted to get this off my chest and tell you MY story. There's a LOT more to this that I could write. But, I have already said enough and took up enough posts. I don't want to bore anyone. Just wanted to say that IF this Church is really what they SAY they are, then this is AWESOME ... (:

[@David8024667]

Never heard of a Church like this before. I went to a United Pentecostal Church. And, that's ALL they ever did was to TAKE money from you. Not saying that ALL of the UPC Churches are like that. Just saying the ones I have been to were. And, I have been to a LOT of UPC Churches. I was confronted by my Pastor, he told me that he wanted to talk to me after the service was over with. And, after Church, I went up to him and talked to him. He said that he had talked to my former boss.

[@califbozo]

NO MATTER WHAT WE THINK OF HELL--IT IS NOT OUR PLANET AND WE ARE FOOLS TO GAMBLE GOING INTO ETERNITY WITHOUT A SAVIOR

[@NotTheEx]

And they could give alot more than they do!!!!

[@hammermg1]

Rob, you are deceived by Satan. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes, And there shall be no more death, neither sorry, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain, for the former things [including the lake of fire] have passed away. And He that sat upon the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new.” And he said to me, “Write: for these words are true and faithful.” Revelation 21:4-5

[@hammermg1]

Psalm 37:20: "The wicked shall perish . . . into*smoke they shall vanish away." Philippians 3:19: Their end is destruction These scriptures, and more, paint an overwhelmingly clear picture of what lies ahead for the unbelieving sinner: separation, desolation, destruction, death, annihilation, nonexistence. Matthew 10:28 says God "is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." The foregoing passages show that God is not only able to destroy, He will destroy both soul and body of the wicked.

[@ignas9218]

I used to hold that same doctrine (I used to be a Seventh-Day Adventist). But it's honestly a non-essential doctrine. Plus, all those verses that you quoted: How do you know that they refer to eternal damnation? Or perhaps they just refer to the "first death", or the death of the flesh.

[@alvintrotman6367]

Correction, Its inaccurate to hate what you have never experienced. When the Church comes back to what Jesus made to be, liking it will the ordinary response......!

[@hammermg1]

Read this and try to understand: And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes, And there shall be no more death, neither sorry, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain, for the former things [including the lake of fire] have passed away. And He that sat upon the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new.” And he said to me, “Write: for these words are true and faithful.” Revelation 21:4-5

[@hammermg1]

Chan's theology includes the false doctrine of punishing the unsaved for all eternity. Psalm 1:4: The wicked are blown away like chaff. Ezekiel 18:4: The soul who sins shall die Proverbs 10:25: The wicked are no more. Psalm 37:20: "The wicked shall perish . . . into*smoke they shall vanish away." Philippians 3:19: Their end is destruction

[@Spacecowb0i]

same question for me..

[@NotTheEx]

He didn´t insinuate that THEY deserve anything. I think it was an excellent example of the so-called Christians REAL committment to give to God.

[@clarencenatomagan9413]

To say otherwise is not only ignore Gods holiness but His unwavering justice and truth. If not hell than that means we could spend eternity with hitler, Stalin and Mussolini. It can also open the door for every unrepentant person who thinks he was basically a 'good' person. But that aside, the word says, He will separate the sheep and the goats...etc.

[@CHIPSSALTY]

I want to add that this passage is NOT about salvation by works. Instead it is a testing of our hearts. The first half of James 2 was about favoritism. That means favoring the rich, the educated, more experienced, the leaders, etc. over the less fortunate counterparts. And if anyone judges based on these things and separate the church, they will not receive mercy from God. Because they forgot to love their neighbours as themselves. And it is in this context that James says faith without works is dead. Can someone really say they have faith in God when they favor the privileged people over the poor? They rather give massive gifts to the rich to gain some kind of favor, instead of donating to the poor that is starving to death? They want the gain some more things from the rich, instead of taking what they already have and give that to the poor. They say they have faith in God but this is how they act. The church is nothing more than a networking social club to them. Others enjoys torturing sinners and making their life as miserable as possible, instead of lovingly and patiently helping them. And these so-called Christians call this love, when they know full well this is abuse. And if a church is filled with such people, the non-believers are right to hate such churches. Can such faith save these people? Of course not. This isn't real faith at all. Once again this is not salvation by works. And it is not the church seeking some kind of prove for your faith. This isn't a witch hunt. But if you see yourself showing these kind of favoritism and you are so unloving to the less privileged, you got to ask yourself. Do you really remember how hopeless you were in your sin, how destined for hell all of us are? Do you remember how Jesus loved you so much that he, fully God and king, emptied himself to become nothing to die for your sins? If even Jesus emptied himself, why are you so full of yourself? Why is it all about you and what you can gain from the church? Shouldn't it instead be all about other people and how you can help them? You were helpless and God helped you. Why aren't you helping the widows and orphans and bringing the Gospel to them? Must you stop your sins? Let me say right here that you cannot stop all your sins and live a sinless life. You will continue to sin to various degrees. Also let me say that I am talking about very clearly written sins in the bible, not man-made traditions and interpretations. In that context, what you must do is to fight against sin to the best of your abilities every single day. You must grow to hate and be intolerant toward sin, even if you are sinning. Do not make peace with sin, because it will consume you. And no you don't do this to earn salvation. Salvation is through Jesus alone. Instead your fight your sins because you love God and love your neighbours. If you are beating your wife up every night, can you honestly tell God that you are loving your neighbor as yourself? And since you know she is created and loved dearly by God, do you really love God when you beat her up? And if a non-believer sees you, will he/she really see the love of Christ in you? You should praise God for his mercy when he didn't strike you down the first time you lifted a finger against your wife! Repent and be saved! If you love God and love your neighbours, you will love both the poor and the rich alike. You will not discriminate against the poor. Neither would you be jealous toward the rich. And you will fight against sin every single day. Is your goal really to just fool the whole church into thinking you are saved, while you would actually end up in hell? What is the point of that? A lot of churches say you must know the right things and believe the right things. But James 2 clarify that these are wrong. The demons knows all the right things and believe all the right things, but they are certainly going to hell. And so also you shouldn't be surprised when a lot of so-called pastors and preachers also ends up in hell. They know the right things and believe in the right things. So what? Because the Pharisees knows more and believe better than them, but Pharisees without Christ are certainly going to hell. Instead there is only one requirement for heaven and its treasures: Love. Do you truly love God? Do you truly love your neighbours? If you don't nothing else matters. That's why someone who knows just the Greatest Commandant and Great Commission, and applies it, will be saved. While another might know the whole bible inside and out, but do not love God nor neighbours, will still end up in hell.

[@David8024667]

Hi, thanks for writing me. And, I'm glad you agree with me. I don't understand how people can look at Jonathon and David and say that the Bible condemns loving, committed, and gay relationships. That was DEFINITELY a gay relationship. And, David was "a man after God's OWN heart," the Bible says. So, why are these people so insistent that God "hates" homosexuals (or homosexuality)? Just doesn't make sense to me. And, the places where it APPEARS to condemn homosexuality doesn't in fact condemn it.

[@hammermg1]

You can have 3 believers together and call it church.

[@stancj7]

@FinalCountdown2Jesus he isnt saying that 6 million is bad. he is just saying that 12 mil would be the minimum according to "tithe" keep in mind he gives away 90% of his income. He is definitely not a greedy person. He just wants to encourage the people to give more so that they can do more good

[@hammermg1]

Don't forget hell is not justice. It is absolutely unfair to punish someone for all eternity for 80 yrs. or so on planet earth.

[@hammermg1]

I have what is called righteous anger. When you say God is a torturer and punishes His creation nonstop, it is really ungodly. You don't want to argue? then don't comment. Plain and simple.

[@hammermg1]

Yeah, but I'd bet Chan has always had what he has needed.

[@hammermg1]

What happens in the second death? Life is terminated again. There is no consciousness, and there is no hope of resurrection. Therefore these people will no longer exist. When describing the an-nihilation of our adversary, the devil, in the lake of fire, the prophet Ezekiel says “and never shalt thou be any more.” This final annihilation of the adversary is what will happen to the unjust also when they are cast into the lake of fire.

[@David8024667]

Good to know, good to know (-: