Chen ZiQiang push hands invitational to Perth Australia

Martial arts culture places high value on sparring etiquette. Hit as hard as you want to be hit. This is just the golden rule.
Guests in any culture usually defer to the host, and take a passive stance to the host's direction.
These are basic things any person should understand regardless of whether they're studying martial arts. The guest in this case has shown his attitudes to these basic moral ideas through his actions.
Several other technical notes -
Push hands rules forbid neck holds. This is because clinching technique is so effective that nobody would use or train anything else.
The hosts do not hold the neck once. The guest seems to exclusively use neck hold and leg trip techniques. As a matter of fact, in his last throw he starts with his hand on the opponent's neck and immediately slams him onto the concrete.
The guest stands over his fallen opponent, and then chooses to step over across his opponent's face. This is very bad manners.
The guest chooses to use vertical throw which forces the opponent to fall backwards. Usually this is not an issue, but this is a stage made of concrete and the ground below the stage is also concrete. The guest showed blatant disregard for whether the host can brace for such impact and whether the host would be seriously injured or whether his life would be put in danger from head trauma.
The guest brings an energy level which is clearly much higher than everyone else.
The guest in this situation shows a gross disregard for his partner's safety.
He operated outside of the ruleset at the host's event, slammed the host onto the cement floor repeatedly, at one point stood over his host and nearly grazed his face while stepping off.
This is not a competition with reward money. This was an event to allow the guest to market himself for his own commercial interest. Instead, he decided to endanger the host's health. The message this sends is - he cares more about his apparent superiority than the welfare of those around him.
The host on the other hand, did not complain once despite the fact that he was being slammed repeatedly on the concrete and was fully compliant on letting the guest showcase what he had to offer.
The lack of respect the guest showed to the host, the organizers and the audience ruined the purpose of the event.
In the video, the organizers put a premature end to the event because of the danger that the guest put the host in.
What are your thoughts?

[@mountainpeakcloud8442]

I‘m not from either camp, so have no biases, but I have trained IMA for decades, and have trained in combat sports, so I know how things can get misinterpreted from both the perspective of the people training, and spectators that has certain expectations of how training should manifest. I see a lot of comments on here criticizing Chen, but from what I can see, the Aussies asked for push-hands, and were clearly giving full resistance. Anyone who’s wrestled, it doesn’t matter if it’s western wrestling, Judo, BJJ, Shuai Jiao etc. know what it feels like when someone is trying to challenge you based on the kind of resistance they give you (there doesn’t even need to be take down attempts). With this in mind, it’s not surprising that the Chen’s brought out some throws, cause that is not only what push-hands mean to them, but if you’re going to asked for a push-hands exchange with them, and then give them full resistance, this is where it goes. I see a lot of people talking about “respect”, but what I find disrespectful is asking for a push-hands exchange, giving full resistance, and being upset if you’re tossed on your ass. Now, I’m not saying the Aussies feel disrespected, I don’t know, but it seems that a lot of people in the comments sections are unrealistic about how this should have played out. Seriously, what do people expect, that you’re going to ask for push-hands, give them full resistance, and they’ll take it easy on you? That’s ridiculous. Go to any BJJ or Judo school, and asked them for a “friendly exchange”, and then go full resistance with them, and see what happens… you’ll be thrown on you ass and submitted over and over, and guess who will be considered the disrespectful asshole? You will, the guy who asked for a “friendly exchange”, only give the same level of resistance as if it were a tournament. If the Aussie guys asked for a push-hands exchange, kept in light will less resistance (there are levels of “respectful” resistance where you’re not going all out, not flopping like a wet noodle), I feel that the Chens would have taken it easy on them, and if they didn’t, then yes, they’d be the assholes, but I don’t find that to be the case here at all… Their response was appropriate to the level of resistance they were obviously getting.

[@mountainpeakcloud8442]

@@vivalaliberty From everything that's displayed here, it's certainly the conclusion I would draw. I don't see the Chen's at fault at all.

[@yunshen]

@mountainpeakcloud8442, I agree with you that this level of intensity is mostly OK, especially as displayed by everyone in the push hands exchange, apart from the last Chen guy. The part that was not OK was when it continue to a stage where there is high chance of serious injury. No doubt, the last Chen guy was highly skilled and he already proved his point multiple times in a safe fashion prior to the last throw. High level Judo teachers will hold on to the opponent for control of the impact and manner of the opponent's falling in demos and practice. In BJJ, when you watch the Gracie's being challenged they would just slap the opponent on the face in a controlled manner to prove their point or submit the opponent without breaking a limb. In this scenario it was not even a challenge. The Aussies did not asked for a challenge. They were asked to be partners for the demo. Indeed the Aussies did give some resistance which was skillfullly overcome by the first two Chen Taiji guys, which made it a great martial demo, show casing the Chen Taiji exponents skills. Unfortunately, it turned all ugly when the Chen master went up and went overboard because of his ego.

[@mountainpeakcloud8442]

@@yunshen Well, we'll have to agree to disagree about the last guy. I don't know if the Aussies didn't ask for a challenge, but when you give the amount of resistance they did, in any combat sport, that's a challenge. I have trained at both a high level Judo school (with former world champions and olympians), and high level BJJ school (world champions), and I will say that if you go in there and treat ever randori and roll like a tournament, they will not take it easy on you, and you're going to get your ass handed to you. If you go in there with a humble attitude and go light, they'll take it easy on you and will stop you mid spar and help you. There's gray areas, all depending on the level of asshole the person is being, and I believe the last Chen guy falls in that gray area where I don't believe he's objectively being inappropriate. Something else to keep in mind is that this is their family art, and it is what they do for a living, so if you're trying to challenge them, the response so it's not automatically "ego", it's about maintaining the name of the families art. Here's the thing, with any combat sports gym or teacher, you're free to go in and challenge them, but if you use too much aggression and resistance, you can't whine about it when they go an extra step to humble you. Basic rule of going into any combat sports gym is stay humble, don't use resistance that can be perceived to be a challenge, meet the level of resistance you sparring partner is giving, but don't go over it, and certainly don't spar with the head of the school as if you're at a tournament... break these rules and you deserve to get your ass kicked.

[@yunshen]

​@@mountainpeakcloud8442 From just watching the video, I thought the amount of resistance was OK, given that these Chen village Taiji guys are supposed to be high level. The resistance was based on technical positioning, there was no obvious brute force resistance. The Aussies were just mainly defending and hardly any attacks were attempted. That little amount of resistance that is based on technical positioning, was obviously overcome with good honest and safe techniques in the first two matches, which was what made this video interesting to watch. Enough resistance to show meaningful effectiveness of the Taiji techniques. The Chen village Taiji guys very clearly showed that they overcome their opponents for the demo but maybe this is not enough for the Chen village Taiji master, maybe he was expecting the opponents to fly away from just a light touch like in many Taiji demos. These Aussies supposedly also practice Chen Taiji but maybe because it's from another line they were deem a challenge.

[@KingoftheJiangl]

This takes place in AUS, and the Chen group was invited to showcase their skills. It's not the aussies inviting themselves over to chen village and asking for a 'push hands exchange'. So the fact that chen was guest, and that the stage is concrete makes this behavior especially inappropriate.

[@moifaacademynewcastle6130]

I have learnt you have to build up a trust and friendship before engaging in training otherwise its all about ego and showing off. Respect to you and your team.

[@derosecutus3462]

if youre walking into any situation with ego in charge, you dont have any business being in a real fight, a tournament, or a display exhibition. Thats kid shit.

[@t.d.nguyen7688]

I've had the privilege of attending Master Chen's school in Chenjiagou for a short time. Unlike some of the others, his, keeps it real. Combative training and grappling as shown above is their standard daily. Instead of expecting Master to sip tea and lead forms training nonchalantly - You'd find it common for him to actively hands on instruct & spar physically with an authentic discipline - From kids, teens or grown adults - homeborn or internationals (myself). Super great academy lead by a realistic and humble master. 🙏🙏

[@derosecutus3462]

hes a bully. plain and simple. his government probably told him to not look weak. you can see the abuse in his eyes and his student's eyes. this is..revolting.

[@Steel9k]

@@derosecutus3462 Martial arts are tools of combat. Real masters can be trained killers. What did you expect? :D Its not abuse in their eyes, its dominance. Winning and looding in the martial art world is not abusive.. its a 'competition' after all. you fight to win. People forgot what real martial arts are..

[@yuenmah]

It's really disappointing to see a supposed master behaving like a gangster. The last leg sweep was totally uncalled for. Lost all my respect for him.

[@taoliu3949]

They were in position. As soon as you're in position it's game on. The guy wasn't prepared, that on him.

[@Internalflow33]

@@taoliu3949 its a demonstration not a tournament.

[@taoliu3949]

@@Internalflow33 And he didn't treat it like a tournament. He treated it as any other sparring demo.

[@mountainpeakcloud8442]

Yet the other guys were treating it like a tournament. It’s not difficult to see the level of resistance the other guys were giving. If they wanted a “demonstration”, they shouldn’t have given tournament level resistance. The whole premise was disingenuous.

[@Scott-tw1hm]

Pure thuggery from Chen Ziqiang. And far from the first instance of it.

[@greadore]

Chen ZiQiang looks like a real jerk. Supposed to be a cultural exchange. He was moving in standing over the opponent in an intimidating posture after he knocked him down, what is he trying to prove, he is supposed to be the “master”. That last sweep he did it looked like the other guy wasn’t sure if they were going to continue or wasn’t ready, and on concrete. Total lack of concern given it was a “friendly” exhibition and not a competition.

[@taoliu3949]

Not really, the guy kept holding onto him, which meant he had to keep walking to maintain his balance or get dragged down. The last sweep the guy just wasn't prepared, which is kinda his fault because as soon as you're in position it's game on. You can see that CZQ is a lot more aggressive, which is fine in MA because you need to be. It's also probably what he's more used to and how he teaches his students.

[@Steel9k]

Sorry for taichi being a dominant, potent, highly advanced martial art.

[@bradliu3399]

Is there a link to the podcast mentioned at the beginning of the video?

[@henryremanlay]

The context of the event is cultural exchange. I would respect a man in blue cap, he knew how to stop and pay respect. CZQ is Chen Xiao Xin's son, and the boy in the red cap is CZH's student, in my knowledge it means CZQ and the boy in red cap is in the same level of lineage, so this is a fair game. But again I would say this is not a competition event and the aim should be to know each other and not to put someone else into a shame situation. I always remember the story when Chen Fake challenged by a wrestler, and the fight ended with no conclusion who won the fight, but later on the wrestler came and offer a drink to Chen Fake, and aknewledge his kungfu level, because hw was locked by Chen Fake and cannot move to throw him, and he pay respect since Chen Fake saving his face. Well return to the Perth event, I think adrenaline pay the role in the event, and it seems people forgot how to stop and pay respect.

[@Steel9k]

Great martial art skills, taichi is one of the most advanced system!

[@yunshen]

I think stepping over across the opponent's body is not an issue. This is common in many grappling arts preparing for an advantageous mount position. However the last throw was definitely a disregard for the host, throwing him on concrete in that fashion which could cause head injuries. The guest being an experienced teacher is obviously either negligent or malicious. In Judo, even on mats, an experienced teacher, in practice or performance may throw someone hard, but will hold on to the opponent to control the impact and the position of the fall. Lesson learnt for the host is to be prepared with mats for any event with substantial grappling activity.

[@ShorelineTaiChi]

"What style do you want to learn?" The gentleman in blue did not seem to understand the implications of the question. Cultural exchange indeed!

[@KingoftheJiangl]

It seems like people were telling chenziqiang "he's not coming" over and over again. I wonder if he was asking for the headmaster of the school so he could "spar" him. Or try to embarrass him. Maybe the fact that the headmaster was not present, he went to town on his son in retaliation of what he saw as a sleight. Not too gracious a little man it seems. And I'm not talking about stature. This is his livelihood. By doing this to people who are helping his business, he bit the hand that fed him.

[@Good3urmes]

The guest's behavior is completely absurd. I'm glad they stopped it. The guy has the mind of 7 year old bully.

[@JJ-km9uf]

That's typical tuishou sparring when we train or in competition. Guess you may not be used to it. Only thing is they should have put a mat for safety but otherwise this is par for the course in the pugilistic style of Chen style Taichi.

[@JJ-km9uf]

@@zhenwu9222 Definitely better to use a mat which is usually used. But sometimes when mats are not available, we do still train like this and yes, people have been sent to hospital with concussion. Broken bones are also common, 3 of my classmates including myself have broken our bones multiple times. I don't know CZQ and haven't met him but I do learn the pugilistic form of Taichi which is meant as a martial art and not as an exercise so we just take these injuries in our stride.

[@JJ-km9uf]

@@zhenwu9222 He is a villager from a small village of 2700 people. Not sure he is that sophisticated in worldly matters. If you see other videos on him, there are also other venues where he does Tuishou with others without mats so he probably just did his normal thing, mat or no mat. Think there was a lack of coordination here on what was expected on both sides. The front of the video seems to show some confusion on this. Seems that it wasn't clear whether it was supposed to be a taolu demonstration and looked like Chen folks asked if Aussie folks were going to do a demonstration and they seemed surprised when asked to do Tuishou. Aussie guys probably didn't plan on Tuishou either hence no mat put in place beforehand.

[@KingoftheJiangl]

@@JJ-km9uf It doesn't take a phd to know concrete floor means go light. No amount of coordination or sophistication can fix an asshole. And that's a trait he has perfectly demonstrated here.

[@taoliu3949]

@@KingoftheJiangl This is "light". I've sparred on concrete before, and as long as you're not doing throws you're fine.

[@heidegger71]

A real taiji master can own you without losing composure. Chen family should be ashamed of themselves if this is their top talent.

[@derosecutus3462]

agreed

[@krenx]

Shameful display by the guest. All his power and skills suddenly amounts to nothing of value due to the way he conducted himself. Learn from that lineage at your own ethical risk. Many ways you can acquire superior martial skills in this world, but there are also many ways to create all types of suffering with it.

[@KingoftheJiangl]

@Ngo david This is true. Especially in a country like China, it's either you're the best or you're nothing, just look at Chinese Olympic athletes. For every champion there's 10,000 people whose youths are wasted.

[@taoliu3949]

Dude, this is how Chenjiagou schools train. They actually do competitive Tuishou, which is basically a form of wrestling/Judo. They will spend hours practicing throws and trips.

[@derosecutus3462]

@@taoliu3949 they look miserable. what good is it for a man to gain the world at the loss of his own soul?

[@taoliu3949]

@@derosecutus3462 The same reason people who play sports.

[@madogblue]

This type of Tai chi competition should be done on mats for participants safety

[@spinningdragontao]

Clearly these guys have watched Ip Man with Donnie Yen and taken the part and attitude of Jin to heart.

[@naturemanironfist5621]

I don't Donnie Yen can do this ? Remember me ?

[@zhongdingtaichi9377]

The Chen Village guests were asking what their hosts had in mind and attempted to be polite. Their hosts behavior was disgusting from my vantage point. If you want to compete with someone, you don't call it a demonstration and that should be done in private, which is why things got out of hand.

[@108Circle8]

Well said.

[@loredanamassini9484]

Maybe they Just tried to make It seem more real?

[@MegaHitman666]

So that's why Chen Zi Qiang was a bit rough with the guy !

[@BobJohnson992]

I think Ziqiang was reacting to what he thought was a lot of rough non-Taiji push-hands. I.e., he was teaching them a lesson about their hard approach to push hands. The Chens will do that to people they think are bullies.

[@derosecutus3462]

and come off looking like the biggest amateur bullies on earth. a disgrace to my master's kung fu.

[@charlesbetancourt7337]

Chen Ziqiang is very powerful. But it's a concrete floor. We should be concerned about safety first. The other side of the coin is, all the you tube talk about Tai chi being weak and ineffective is probably causing these actions.

[@pignokor5536]

obviously in chenjiaogou they didnt care.. yea they should probably adapt to western safety rules

[@KingoftheJiangl]

@@pignokor5536 Chenjiagou martial art schools have very good padded facilities...

[@antonykahuro8349]

I feel like there is more besides the pushing hands parts.. maybe some history between the host and the guest (I heard the MC saying "ta bu lai", which means there was someone who was supposed to come up the stage but preferred not to). However based on the video the guest really misbehaved and should not have acted the way he did.

[@taichiwonders8784]

This is what I got out of the video... Chen's student in black is pushing with the Australian in Blue. Fairly even, black was a bit better but nothing much, until Chen's student sends the other fellow back out of view. They start to go again and CZQ tells his other student to go with the Australian. Chen's student in blue tries a bunch of stuff but is unsuccessful until he is able to get the Aussie off balance and lands him on the ground. After that the Aussie in blue wisens up and Chen's student tries but can't do anything to him until he sets him on the ground a second time. At that point when CZQ sees his student may not be doing as well as he had expected, he tells the Australians to switch. It really looks like CZQ is trying to direct the narrative. When Chen sees that his student is unable to do anything with the Australian in the red, he steps in to replace his student. CZQ is probably a good level or more above the Australian. Chen then seems to take his frustrations (that his students didn’t perform as good as he may have wanted) out on the Australian until people stepped in and stopped the event. It seems like he was really trying to prove a point. In the end Chen Ziqiang did not show that his school was better, only that “he” was better… Kind of a fail in my eyes.

[@derosecutus3462]

agreed. chen's guys were crossing the line from what id consider defensive tai chi into offensive kung fu. sifu would have kicked me out of class in an instant the moment i grabbed my partner's neck. total bs.

[@lalnes82]

Wooooow

[@ptarter]

Where’s the podcast?

[@MegaHitman666]

The music is kind of comes you down , takes the tension out .

[@RamseyDewey]

I just read the video description. I’ve trained taijiquan in Jiangsu province, China with Master Yu Dao Shui. These guys were being very NICE to you by comparison! That’s just basic taiji sparring. I don’t understand the complaints about the etiquette you expected, so I doubt your guests did either. I have lived in China for 15 years, what is considered to be polite and rude here is very different from other countries. If you ask a Chinese martial artist to show you their gongfu, the expectation is that they will show you their skill. I would suggest that if you are going to do an exhibition in a grappling art like taiji, use mats next time. Even in a gentle push hands drill, falling down is not uncommon.

[@clouddragon8673]

It's not just a grappling art

[@oalsaker]

Thanks for that. I have trained with Chen Ziqiang several times and he has been absolutely friendly since it was mostly technical form training or more formal push hands training. Never had an issue with his attitude or behaviour in the ten years I have attended training with him.

[@watermelonprom7197]

I absolutely agree the hosts from the looks of it they don't actually do any real sparring cause every attempt made by the hosts was in response to the guests not even as a counter to they never once made an attempt to attack which is why the guests look like the bad guys it's like watching a white belt spar a black belt (also different schools have different rules most push hands allow that technique) also btw if you guys liked watching the master spar I suggest watching Taichi Zero & Taichi Hero cause everything he did looks like it came straight out of that movie

[@johnyossarian9059]

I don't see the point of putting this video and the long ass text in the description. It doesn't seem fair that the video uploader doesn't try to present the perspective of the Chen Taiji people.

[@mahakala5786]

Master Chen is a little bit angry of red shit guy ~^ ^ !!!

[@derosecutus3462]

because he dared to resist the bullies

[@MrDidjcripey]

I think they weren't expecting the skill level of the team from Perth. Worried they might lose face.

[@pignokor5536]

folks you have to realize,, in China those kungfu guys always do takedowns on solid floor,, or maybe in someones dinning room.. but yea the host should mention it to chenziqiang in advance. its not the fault of chenziqiang definitely . they underestimated the power of push hand. they probably didnt even realize what chenziqiang push hand could look very different than the old men form in some parks.

[@pignokor5536]

@@vivalaliberty yea thats for rules of public sports games, but Chen village seems having their own rules (just beat it) , i agree with you that this is too brutal for general participants and they seems played it to roughly

[@pignokor5536]

@@vivalaliberty Think old kungfu mindset also comes into play. Sifu beating apprentice kind of things

[@user-cf2vr7mb8s]

Much do you know the push hand , ur… holding Neck Leg trip is already out of push hand , it is spar. The host side never ever hold your neck ?? Suppose this jerk master ChenZQ only can hold neck and sudden speed leg trip to push away people and that is not Chen’S. Taichi , it is a gangster fight?? Really bad

[@alfredomorenowilliams2939]

am i to understand that chen zhonghua chicken out the guy from chen taiji practical method? is he the one that was a no show? i love love to see hime and ziquiang push lol

[@derosecutus3462]

what is cowardice, but the body's wisdom of its own weakness? is the master the one who wins the fight or the one who sees a pointless fight before it happens and avoids it? you can see the hate in chen's eyes. i wouldnt risk sparring with a guy like that.

[@neonmayan7686]

Chen has things to prove, let him prove them in a ring or in an mma cage, but not in a friendly match.

[@taoliu3949]

Have you seen how Chenjiagou schools train? This is basically how they trained. They will do nothing but throws and sweeps for hours.

[@RamseyDewey]

How was this not a friendly match?

[@clouddragon8673]

@Ramsey Dewey It's pretty normal for a push hands play, but it's probably better to be polite and show good manners by offering the guy on the floor a hand up; after all its a solid hard floor and not soft canvas.

[@neonmayan7686]

@@RamseyDewey get thrown down hard on a hard floor and you will see that it is not friendly

[@RamseyDewey]

@@neonmayan7686 On my first day training taijiquan with Master Yu Dao Shui in Jiangsu Province, China, that is exactly what happened. We trained on stone tiles outside the Zhenjiang vinegar factory. He threw me quite a few times. I busted up my elbow pretty badly. Super nice guy. That’s just how they roll here in China.

[@chrisz9732]

In the West, Tai Chi is a way for old people to exercise and weebs to experience Asian culture. In China, it's still a full contact wrestling sport. This video just shows the massive cultural gap that's grown between the two communities and both of them came out of the experience completely confused.

[@venisiushuang593]

Agree, tai chi brought to the west is actually a misrepresentation of what tai chi really is, there’s nothing wrong with the tui shou demonstration, Chen Zi Qiang simply just want to show what the western don’t know about Tai Chi, actually he’s giving precious knowledge, If they want to understand it

[@theolima8929]

didnt understand why ziqiang got so mad

[@thedoctor7151]

Someone needs to learn the fundamentals of pushhands is combat

[@MohammadJK197]

I do appreciate the level of skill demonstrated by Chen ZiQiang, however in my opinion his behaviour was wrong and egotistical. You slam someone down on a hard floor like that, just check if they are okay and give a helping hand. This is not Mortal Kombat and you are not trying to Finish someone!😂 Having said that, it is very difficult to keep your ego in check when you are so superior in combat skill compared to 99% of people.

[@immortalwarrior2406]

Wow master chen is great. Actually the white guy in the blue showed he wanted to wrestle when asked. Chen group agreed and did what the Aussie team wanted. Chen ziqiang is just too good. Wish the main master who opened the video would have pushed hands with master chen after the kid in red.

[@Rankawino]

great ? really?

[@immortalwarrior2406]

​@@Rankawinobecause they asked the white guy how he want to play the white guy show wrestling. Then the china group showed who is boss😂 why u can't see ?😮

[@zhaoang2011]

最后一下，这种硬水泥地，陈自强出手太狠，完全不至于这样。他很多视频都是这样，感觉不是太有武德。

[@lisandromendez3494]

En "criollo" se dice el maestro Che Ziqiang se CALENTO 😤😠😡😡😡

[@entrenamientos9295]

Chen Ziqiang estuvo mal mal mal , desprecio total , si se enfrenta a uno de MMA se le acaba todo.

[@JJ-km9uf]

The chap in red is a top student of Chen Zhonghua who has been participating in Tuishou competitions of this type all around the world including in China for years now. So he is very familiar with this style of Tuishou and it is a rare opportunity for him to practice with CZQ like they do in Chenjiagou. This is typical tuishou practice for the pugilistic form of Chen style and nothing unusual except that they should have used a mat for safety.

[@JJ-km9uf]

@@zhenwu9222 He is probably one of the Top 10 students of Chen Zhonghua and follows him to events all around the world. I have seen him around all over for maybe 10 years or more now.

[@JJ-km9uf]

@@zhenwu9222 I don't know all of Chen Zhonghua's students obviously but if referring to Tuishou in his weight class, there aren't that many that travel around the world with him and he is one of them. Not referring to those who just practice forms or those with size advantage.

[@shaunlemouton1954]

@@JJ-km9uf I will repeat here my comment from above: I am not sure, but I think that event took place some years ago. If this link shows the same event, than it took place in 2019 ( kzbin.info/www/bejne/fnmpiWCAaa6inas) That time, the student in red was probably not very experienced.

[@shaunlemouton1954]

@@JJ-km9uf As far as I know, there are some head instructors from practical method. I would count them as the top students. And even as a top student, some are more skilled in push hands and fighting, others concentrate on forms and technical details. Look at Sun Yang, he is a very experienced fighter, but maybe not the best in technical aspects of practical method yet. kzbin.info/www/bejne/haeukHaOeKqirbs

[@immortalwarrior4722]

wow chen ziqiang is powerful

[@Rankawino]

you think so''?

[@zhaoang2011]

This is not Tai Ji. just wrestling. LOL

[@jonwijaya8539]

If you think this is rough, go and play chess instead.

[@aiko4321]

NIice cultural exchange. :D CZQ couldn't control his anger.. If that lady didn't stop it, he might be still taking down that guy in red. :) Disgrace.

[@MilaN-vq5sm]

Too aggressive china. Respect for autocontrol of others

[@robertvong]

Stay friendly. You don't get to challenge a guy, go in hard, and complain about getting thrown down.

[@JJ-km9uf]

Not really sure what the fuss is about. This is similar to what he teaches at his paid Tuishou seminars, some of which are also done without mats as in the link below. Safer with mats of course, but in this case, they were asked to demonstrate without mats set up. So he did what he normally does in his teaching seminars. See link kzbin.info/www/bejne/gaG8YaZoqsZsm9E Guess you are not used to the pugilistic form of Taichi practice.

[@cyborgchicken3502]

Most people don't understand that Tai Chi Chuan used to be a form of Chinese folk wrestling and grappling, the more I've researched it and learned it's history the more I understand that this is definitely the case, but due to its portrayal in Kung Fu movies and it's watering down in modern times, it's become nothing more than an aerobic exercise for old people, and this is what most people's view of Tai Chi is today...when in fact back in the day Tai Chi was no different from Jujitsu or Judo

[@gongfutaijimy]

Grappling doesn’t mean you need to spazz out and be reckless with people way less experienced.

[@taoliu3949]

@@gongfutaijimy If you think this is "reckless", you need to actually look at competitive tuishou matches when they actually go all out. This is how they spar at Chenjiagou, they will do nothing but trips and throws for hours.

[@gongfutaijimy]

@@taoliu3949 I have, the training culture isn’t great.

[@taoliu3949]

@@gongfutaijimy Bru, all competitive sports have the same training culture.

[@derosecutus3462]

they may be agressive and powerful but there is no discipline here. men like these are cowards who will break in an instant on the battlefield and abandon you to die. shame on chen.

[@MrDeano-eu9rg]

Do they've given up on the magic no pressure bullshit like Adam minzer?

[@derosecutus3462]

a team of bullies trained by a bully. disgusting.

[@derosecutus3462]

all right ive rewatched it and calmed down a little. theyre still total bullies but by the end the kid in red was asking for it. I still do NOT like these guys. freaking cobra kai energy.

[@rickhung4611]

It is no. Polite

[@ChristianoSts]

This bad wrestling is being called Chen taijiquan. Sad

[@derosecutus3462]

what the h is wrong with these guys? the guests are acting like they have something to prove or a chip on their shoulders. they look like undisciplined idiots who dont practice the very Taoist philosophies they claim to love. Im thourally disgusted by this display, and am very impressed by the host's ability to keep his cool.

[@waynehansen9100]

All pretty weak bull at a gate stuff Your students were intimidated and trying to be too nice If they had gone in with the same attitude the village people did it would have been much more even They wouldn’t have got away with that on the east coast because we play rugby league and handle the tackling since we were kids

[@clacicle]

You’ll never see the Chen guys going up against people who are at their level. It’s always against lower level people. For them it’s a very lucrative business and losing face would not be good. What you’re seeing here is lots of force, speed, and power which is not real taiji.

[@AztecUnshaven]

Chen Zhiqiang is world class, he spars with top killers on a regular basis.

[@clacicle]

@@AztecUnshaven no doubt he is world class. But, where is the footage?

[@KingoftheJiangl]

@@AztecUnshaven He only plays grapple against people below him, presumably because he runs seminars. But his aggression is a problem, clearly.

[@AztecUnshaven]

@@KingoftheJiangl That is not true at all. He wrestles with guys that are physically WAY bigger and very skilled and still hold his own. Perfect example is his spar session with Sifu William Miller from Atlanta, Georgia. William is highly skilled in both BJJ and Chen Taiji and Master Zhiqiang had a competitive back and forth session with him, even though he's way smaller than Sifu William.

[@LMJett]

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, of course, but the first time I saw this clip, I personally found it a little distasteful and IMHO a poor representation of Chinese culture & character. I'm reminded of why Professor Cheng Man-ching admonished his senior Tai Chi students: "Don't be greedy!"... In other words, don't abuse lessor skilled people just because you can!... If Tai Chi is TRULY practiced as a Chinese Taoist Art, then it would seem that the HIGHEST LEVEL would be aiming at finding your decades of practice evolving into a state of "Wu Wei" (effortless doing), and then "winning" would simply be a "by-product" (with very little "ego" involved). But, if your goal is to merely to be "the MEANEST S.O.B. on the planet", then you can certainly train in that direction (and, apparently, there's no shortage of people that do), but I personally don't find that particularly enviable, OR an intelligent way to navigate through your years of life on this planet. Speaking of Professor Cheng, his personal philosophy seemed to be about 50% Taoist and 50% Confucian, so he tended toward encouraging the Confucian values of encouraging a "harmonious society" (hence his poem: "Hall Of Happiness", which is well worth reading). So, I've been practicing martial arts myself for over 50 years now, and I can certainly admire people with a high level of martial skill (regardless of their chosen art)... but, to earn my trust as a FRIEND, my criteria is really MUCH HIGHER... I expect a balanced quality of character... because, in the log run, "champions" are a dime a dozen.

[@zev9111]

Well, you had an opportunity to say how you wanted to demonstrate push hands, the first guy from Chen Village clearly wanted to do the gentle silk reeling and the boy from GMA was being stiff an unmoving, after it had been said on the outset as silk reeling. This does 2 things. 1. By itself its a challenge, because you are not working with your partner, but rather against your partner, this makes it a drill for superiority. 2. It shows your school can't be trusted, as you invited them to something friendly and then went for something more combative. This comes across to their school as duplicitous and an obvious challenge. Another thing you don't do, is invite another group from overseas to your event and try to embarrass them. Also, you write in your description that you are giving the opportunity for them to market themselves. They don't need you. Aside from you all breaking away from Chen Zhonghua (who is not particularly big as a Taiji exponent anyway) You are a small school in a small city in a small country (population) They are representatives of Chen Village - birth place of Chen Style. The last of them to Push was Chen Ziqiang - son of Chen Xiao Xin the instructor of the MAIN CHEN SCHOOL IN CHEN VILLAGE. You guys embarrassed yourselves after trying to embarrass a group that you invited under the pretense of friendliness and then whine about being put in your place. What a joke

[@venisiushuang593]

You said it loud & clear, anyway if Chen Zi Qiang and his disciples don’t deal with them so called “demonstration”, they will lose cause of this “friendly match”, and everybody will say bad things about chen tai chi, like it’s a weak martial arts. But when they win, everybody will say they are bad influence, too harsh and kind of bad things. But at least they’re proof to show what chen tai chi is

[@derosecutus3462]

omg the last guy is making me so mad my sow choy is feeling..hot. center! must center!

[@rickhung4611]

Ridiculous

[@Rankawino]

there are historical and efective martial arts which have developed wrestling in a very high level, the wheel was discover long ago (jujitsu, judo chinesse wrestling, mongolian wrestling, BJJ, ...so what is this ? you all know that a profesional fighter could bit these guys in one minute, including the teacher. In the other hand the agressive trainig or demostration did not share nothing clear to the audience, just an ungry teacher doing the job of his student. For me one thing is the demostration of the chen form , with all that power, and other thing is this aproach to tuishou, san shou. The form is amazing, the other training not. My opinion, with respet with you chen practitioner.

[@lauriehartley9808]

Not much skill on show here.

[@user-cf2vr7mb8s]

This CZG suppose a master but use to much force to push the guy to fall. What kind of Chen’s taichi????. All his colleagues also use to much force push a or sweeping down opponents. This CZG group like to use hand to crap neck of opponent who they never do like that. CZG’ group really very bad taichi really ruin the Chen’ family Taichi Name. Very bad

[@ROTNERTV]

Just show-offs, none of that is in accordance with the principles of Taiji, it's just people pushing and shoving each other in a bulgarian way.