Two Different Interpretations Of Tai Chi - Jan Lucanus vs Nico Alsup

We have one of the coolest clashes of Tai Chi styles courtesy of World Series of Push Hands featuring Jan Lucanus and Nico Alsup (sometimes spelled Niko Alsup or Nicholas Alsup). Let's see a sports-oriented approach to Tai Chi vs an internal approach to Tai Chi. Let's see if a Yin vs Yang approach or spear vs Aikido approach to Tai Chi works for this context of fixed-step raised platform push hands. Also, how cool was it that Sifu Nico adapted in the middle of the match? Let us know if you want to see more of Sifu Nico or Coach Jan!
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[@FightCommentary]

Sifu Niko: kzbin.info/door/BwTBZm7-vqz0pUOGkekgTQ Sifu (or Coach) Jan: kzbin.info Jason: kzbin.info

[@Erime]

Please do a commentary on Werdum and Machida Vs Adam Mizner in 'The Power of Chi' (search on KZbin). Many thanks in advance!

[@charlesbetancourt7337]

Gerry before doing the Adam miznerovie commentary. I suggest you do commentary on 4 new scrappy bouts by " shadow Xu" that have popped up. It will make the Mizner one for a crowd like this a little more believable. 1) Tai chi vs. wrestling (maybe Greco Roman) angle 1-shadow Xu. 2) Tai chi vs. wrestling( maybe Greco Roman) other match- shadow Xu. 3) Tai chi vs.sanda( Chinese kickboxing) - shadow Xu. 4) Tai chi vs. freestyle wrestling 1- shadow Xu. The first two matches are with the Chinese national wrestling team.

[@taichipandabat6153]

Vibrational force is basically what the term "Fa jin" come from :D

[@AndrewReadWall]

Nice.

[@swordsmanxia]

Ways to game the system: 1. Taping the fingers so the sweat doesn't disrupt friction/contact 2. Wear slippery clothing to reduce the opponent's friction on your arms and body 3. Control when the fight starts and stops by leaving the ring between points 4. When aligning after demanding the recent in #3, demanding the starting position is with the other's person bridge smaller than "zhanzhuang, by getting the weight to the front leg before the opponent can set up their starting posture. 5. Exploding to demand the initial space, instead of vying for it. 6. Instantly removing the hands from the starting position to grab the body 7. Grabbing the other person with the thumb and fingers, instead of trapping the limb to maintain contact when falling Maybe they aren't illegal, but they are ways to beat the rules to gain advantage, instead of actually competing at the skill of structural integrity (balance over the opponent). Both teachers are excellent. But it seems one is focused on beating the game more than beating the opponent.

[@FightCommentary]

Thanks for noticing all these details!

[@basilistsakalos9643]

Excellent comment!!! I agree.

[@jestfullgremblim8002]

Yeah...

[@BFGalbraith74]

This is halfway between standing meditation/Zhan Zhuang and sparring, it's a sensitivity drill that is mostly good for building a solid stance (I got a bronze medal in this in the 2001 International Tiger Balm in the division I was in.)

[@diphyllum8180]

As someone who does Tai Chi, I think that the competitive athletic attitude both helps and hurts. It helps because it puts pressure, and many tai chi players are far too complacent, so bringing that intensity is a breath of fresh air in a way. It also hurts in that it can take away some of the space for good natured exploration which tai chi push hands can be great for. Then again, there's a time and a place, right? Like when you're doing push hands with a beginner at class you're not going to go as hard as when you're at a competition against a talented sifu. I like that he brings it. But of course I like Niko's serenity and acceptance even more.

[@TBButtSmoothy]

its early re-development of the art. No clear way to know exactly where it goes yet. As it structures, there def will be pressure variations for newbies vs experts like in any other modern martial art

[@scottyjohnson9399]

rofl. overthinking

[@pranakhan]

Yeah, if I can't tell the difference between two Taichi Tui Shou practitioners and 2 Judo Kataguruma practitioners, then all I see are 2 people ready to get owned by a freestyle Greco-Roman wrestler. So the devil is in the details

[@judosailor610]

At least they are doing something alive and competitive.

[@alexisdominguez3133]

You mean using the big furniture sliders as a form of competition?

[@judosailor610]

@@alexisdominguez3133 be honest man, did you like your own comment? Lol.

[@alexisdominguez3133]

Floor is lava again?

[@basteagui]

the burst is called FA JIN, and the opposite "style" from niko is not an opposing style at all, just an opposing idea within the system, the idea of listening and reacting. in this sense niko is displaying water element always and foremost. it's his way of doing the art and it is the most elegant, it's higher level than most. fa jin is like fire element instead, it explodes from within. jan has great fa jin. they are both very legit masters. fa jin was overpowering nico at the beginning but he adapted to it, that was incredible

[@jestfullgremblim8002]

True

[@Nimno74]

I loved this. The last video with Nico was awesome too, but this one was better, as he had another person from the same discipline, at the same level, to keep him on his literal and proverbial toes. It's like a debate between two scholars in the same field, but with different hypothesis...... only it's physical. Hats off to both of them. But, dancing Nico is my new spirit animal.

[@basteagui]

that loose turning should be in all the taiji practitioners, this looseness allows him to react to what his opponent does more easily, if they try to invade a space he gives it to them and redirects.

[@FightCommentary]

Nico will be on Fight Commentary Chats soon ;) Stay tuned!

[@shadowfighter6445]

This looked like a fun exchange. Thank you for sharing ☺️.

[@JansTaiChi]

Thanks for posting this!

[@assoverteakettle]

Whether one appreciates taichi or not, I think this is a good example of how gaining skills and expertise in a martial art, or any skill, is the cumulative hours you put into it.

[@bumpdat01]

I loved the breakdown of this tournament you have down I have subscribed to both channels of the participants before this event and your channel as well! I am interested in watching more Push Hands competition and Tai Chi Wrestling I am alsohappy they invited you to this event!!

[@eylon1967]

That's fascinating. I would love to see more

[@kokovas]

exerting force like that in tui shou makes it look more like shuai jiao actually

[@jestfullgremblim8002]

True

[@betocalero8221]

I always enjoy your comments help me understand the application of this beautiful art thank you 🙏🏼 amigo gracias 🙏🏼 ✌🏼👍

[@guyfromnj]

I would think Nico’s build and body type helps with something like this too. He is stockier and shorter so a bigger lower center of gravity naturally. I would think that gives a edge in a test of balance.

[@basteagui]

it is true that his hip is lower, but he does "fight" (push hands) a shorter mma dude in the other video. and his lower center of gravity doesn't help him.

[@YongnianTaiChiUSA]

Good work guys!

[@markdonovan1540]

The first thing I noticed was the alignment of the sacrum of both practitioners. Nico definitely has the more sunk and rooted posture, whereas Jan relies on his leverage with his long limbs, but it seems to break from some principles of taiji. For example, when he tries to push Nico, some of his force goes backwards due to his sacrum not being straight and connected to his feet - it sticks out a bit in comparison to Nico. Nico also seems to approach this more from a test of the principles of Taiji, whereas Jan appears to be more "competitive" in his approach. It's just my opinion, based on what I see in this video.

[@TheFrankieHoe]

The russian kungfu dude is named Victor Matveev, he still makes videos to this day. Dunno if you were still looking for him, he has tons of content. He smashes his ceiling lamp with a nunchago in his video 3 days ago

[@Lordalexzader]

Push hands, especially fixed step, is just an exercise to learn how to use and keep your root, transfer this to your center, control your center and then find and control the opponent's center. When one loses their root or their center the whole thing crumbles. Fixed step is very limited in application as it is a foundational drill and only serves to develop and tune connections and help practitioners to learn how to feel/listen to their opponents. Don't get me wrong, it's an important drill, I just wanted to be clear that it's a very basic one and that moving push-hands basically becomes full sparring at high levels. I, myself, am very competitive and competed for over 20 years and it is good to have that but we have to learn to control it. Both these players are competitive and they are both getting excited but Nico does a better job at grounding that and not getting TOO excited. I have used laughter as my weapon (being a smaller guy) and I tend to get in the heads of my opponents before the match even starts and they want to hurt me. As long as I keep smiling and having fun, I stay relaxed and don't get angry. It got me a couple grand championships against heavy weights, hahaha!! Thanks so much for the great content, man, I appreciate you.

[@alexisdominguez3133]

So basically after you're done with your real training, e.g., sparing, footwork, striking fundamentals, etc.., you would use this as a meditation movement. Not for combat but for a cool down.

[@Lordalexzader]

@@alexisdominguez3133 no, you would do it before more advanced fighting drills and sparring to help get in touch with your center, warm up and start "listening" to your partner/opponent. Like I said, it's a foundational exercise.

[@zzajizz]

Great to see 2 skilled players going against each other. fixed step is good for testing fundamentals, but I would really like to see these 2 go on to test their free-step, basically sparring.

[@Erime]

What you see here is nothing compared to what taichi wizard Adam Mizner does to Fabricio Werdum (UFC heavyweight champ), as well as Machida. Would love to see a commentary on that here. There's already videos about it on KZbin (search for the documentary 'The Power of Chi'). Let's go!

[@Erime]

@@david9180 hehe, it's definitely a possibility ;P . Wrestlers and MT boxers also need rules that prevent career-ending events in the ring also, though. I guess 'all is fair in love and war'...

[@jimmybovver8768]

Yes but these guys are genuine here

[@beenright5115]

I would love to see Jan and Nico against Misner, using this ruleset

[@Erime]

@@beenright5115 but you never will see it 🤷.

[@beenright5115]

@@Erime well, it is a distance to travel and someone has to pay for the tickets... But I'd love to see it anyhow

[@kwaishiu6460]

Push hand in tai chi is used to train to get sensitivity and balance, it's not so much about getting competitive to push to win, the fact is the more you get pushed the more you will find your own mistakes in your body mechanics and your relaxation 😌

[@FightCommentary]

Yep. Niko figured that out and that's why he won.

[@derek6817]

Masterful performance by both men

[@vision2086]

The push from Niko at the end classic long form

[@fenryl9822]

I think it would be interesting to understand what competition in Chinese martial arts used to be in the past. Both the gymnastic like performances as well as this kind of point counting match are very new. In the past, also in tai chi, a challenge usually meant an actual fight and its only really since mid 20th century that this changed. Now this kind of fighting can only be seen in for example Beijing underground scenes.

[@benbolt936]

Acute Triangle

[@FightCommentary]

Thank you!

[@Hedgehog-plant]

I'd love to see one of these tai chi guys spar! It would be cool to see the applications

[@HiroIndo16]

he will lose lmfao

[@benjamindavis788]

Zero applications.

[@jasonsecretsword7606]

@@benjamindavis788 you have no idea...

[@benjamindavis788]

@@jasonsecretsword7606 Well, the onus is on someone (you even) to share some evidence to the contrary.

[@jasonsecretsword7606]

There are 18 strikes just inside of the most basic Yang 24 form. Just because few practice the striking side of Taiji does not mean that it's not there. In fact short range "depth" striking in contact range is our specialty.

[@kevinlobos5519]

Holy c*** how did I miss this? this was awesome to see. Just like you said, Ying and Yang very notoriously in action right there, both guys were great. Which martial arts styles does jean practice?

[@basilistsakalos9643]

They both are Taijiquan practitioners.

[@kevinlobos5519]

@@basilistsakalos9643 interesting, I wonder which style

[@jestfullgremblim8002]

@@kevinlobos5519 Nico practices Yang Style. While Jan seems to have done both Yang and Wu Style. And who knows, Jan may have practiced some of the other Taiji styles as well

[@jmac6748]

BRING THE THROAT SINGING INTROS BACK PLEASE 😂

[@FightCommentary]

If you have any attempts at it, please send me!

[@mickywes3733]

To me, if looks like Jan is doing “push hands sport” and Niko is more doing “taichi”

[@jestfullgremblim8002]

Yes. To be honest, what Jan is doing here would get countered in Moving Step push hands competitions, but it's not like he cares about that. He isn't here to get better at the fighting application (which seems to be what Nico wants)

[@TheTrippnotist]

Help or hurt Taiji? Hmm. My preference is for moving step (with sweeps and throws). For me, fixed step fosters too many bad habits (from a MA perspective). Was still fun to watch though.

[@jimmybovver8768]

Both good in different ways. San Shou even better

[@ShredST]

Looks like Nico's knee position is better than Jan's. Nico's overall body alignment is just better

[@mattlambertsculpture]

This was great!

[@percy9228]

noticed a few times that Jan has stepped of and therefore lost. but then when he has stable footing on the ground and not on the wooden blocks he drags Nico off. He basically used the floor to do this maneuver, the point should be over by then and he shouldn't be allowed to keep a hold and then move the opponent like that. Nice see's he's doing it and out of frustration tried one himself at around 11:57

[@martinmadsen7955]

Jan is defeating himself by applying to much energy. Once its redirected hes done. He should be softer. On the other hand tai chi people need to train with people like Jan to learn to properly redirect that level of energy since most tai chi people never experience it. The best thing these guys could do is train with eachother for a while as they are opposites as you say Jerry.

[@Zictomorph]

Yeah, it seems more like Jan is using force and athleticism within the rules of tai chi. (Niko uses main strength at times as well) But it works. Tai chi must defend against all energies. I don't love it when either guy actually plants a foot on the ground and continues to yank or push. But I don't know the rules, maybe that's how it works, it just seems like you've already lost and using leverage not allowed with the platforms. My Tai chi master stopped judging competitions since he said "this is just two buffalo!". He felt like it was less Tai chi principles and just strength versus strength. I think there's a place for strong, hard energy, but relying on it solely doesn't help grow the soft energy.

[@jestfullgremblim8002]

@@Zictomorph yeah

[@eastcoastsailingcenter7768]

one sweating buckets .. other chillin.

[@ytb460]

Jan keeps his big feet flat but I can't see any power from them and when is taken off his feet he loses his centre. Nico sometimes is on the sides of his feet or bent or moved but he still has his centre/balance. The difference between these 2 is quite big imo. Nico is an old school hardcore guy and Jan is a modern sporty taichi wrestler type.

[@FightCommentary]

Yep. Jan leans forward a lot. Niko is more rooted.

[@austindavies6371]

Just a comment on the opening commentery Jan had put up money that he could win vs the comp winner

[@FightCommentary]

Now that's interesting! How much money did he put up?

[@lindltailor]

This match demonstrates very well what I can't stand about fixed-step - it's a game of first reaction time. It bears nothing to actual push hands which is intended to move people out of a space. The blue guy's techniques are based on quick little tricks, that only work when he has perfect posture, setup, body height and connection at t = zero. In a moving situation there is no t = zero. You might say, "well moving around a space would be nothing but a bunch of quick starts, a bunch of t=zero all in quick succession", but it doesn't work that way. So you go on developing these esoteric little tricks which aren't useful anywhere else, to the detriment of working on real skill of managing movement, momentum, neutralizing and distancing, and any hope of providing a reasonably well-rounded training as a fighter/wrestler/clincher. If not, then how about demonstrate this "skill" on a BJJ / wrestler in a more mobile situation? Why no moving step push hands at this competition, where both the styles here could mix in a combined format? The BJJ people are bored watching this, looking at phones and yawning lol

[@basteagui]

such a display of ignorance was truly something to behold. i thank you for the experience. you mean fa jin? no. fa jin can be done from anywhere so long as the base is good and one is rooted. and also not at all, fa jin can be used for striking or closing the gap too. this is just because you have no understanding of it. so what you mean when you say "more mobile situation" is that you want them to do wrestling, against a wrestler. why don't you actually say what you mean. this is actually just one aspect of actual wrestling like you say, but it does give them a more solid stance than anyone else. if you think it's not worth to practice then why are you watching, there is moving tai chi competitions from china that you can watch. it looks just like wrestling.

[@noahbowman3591]

Acute Triangle!!

[@walterbeckley7634]

Its easy to pull your opponent off their center with your weight when you've been pushed and falling away from them and you grab hold to use gravity to then pull them with you... and or have been pulled off your center and now your falling into the person that managed to pull you off your center first. Better judging or understanding of when Fajing is being used verses muscle strength... I look forward to seeing more "Tai Chi Push Hands" And the growth of this inner/outer discipline!

[@MikeNewWest]

This is great stuff. These two are at a level where I would rather see them do moving step to find out what's what. The fixed step is a great exercise, but eventually, you overemphasize stuff that helps you win the game, but maybe useless and even counterproductive as soon as your opponent can move their feet. My opinion is Jan has more experience how to "win" this particular "game"-- but Nico actually may have higher abilities- which would be more clear with moving step push hands. Of course, there's a weight difference to, which matters just like it always does in martial arts. I think Jan's more forward orientation is a distinct character of Wu style tai chi. It's cool to see people really practicing. In terms of the question if this kind of aggressive, competitive energy is good or bad for tai chi-- it's great to practice at different levels of intensity- the same with any other martial arts. Sometimes you go slow to focus on technique, ability development, sometimes you go fast to pressure test and test the mind, will, breath, etc. The problem with Tai Chi and the other internal styles is just they've gotten away from pressure testing-- bring that back and the styles will flourish and grow again-- that's my two cents.

[@AndrewReadWall]

Agreed

[@KingoftheJiangl]

The "fight mode" doesn't really help with relaxation and concentration. I'd say it hurts most grappling styles and even striking styles if the purpose is flow sparring. Of course you will need to embrace the fight energy when you need to, but that should be rather rare and staying calm is very difficult. We shouldn't be trying to get into the fight energy but to control it when it happens... That's my experience at least

[@jestfullgremblim8002]

Yes indeed!! Someone that knows!

[@josephgarrahan9945]

from a tai chi point of view exactly. my instructor gets on me and tells me stop trying to win. Jan here is obviously trying to win. It is good to see how to use tai chi principals with that kind of opponent

[@thedroid6462]

Fascinating - much prefer Nico's style and relaxed playful attitude.

[@dreamsalamander]

It's like watching two different idealised body mechanics pit against each other: "sung" Vs "glute dominant", the latter being more of a mythical status in athletics such as track and field, racket and throwing sports, than in empty hand combat. Can almost hear the cues: on one side, weight on toes, glutes primed, abs in, spine long. On the other side, grip the floor, tailbone down, don't float the ribs, move from the waist

[@danielburgess7785]

Physics would describe this as a fluid two body problem.

[@ytb460]

Nico seems better and much nicer. Jan seems very aggressive and almost pumped up and miffed. Nico adapts and seems far more taichi and a more attractive teacher. He doesn't let it get to him. Jan clearly uses his size and weight but is quite easily pulled off balance. From what i see of his lower back it seems quite tight and not open as I thought it would be. This enables Nico to almost bend him in half as his force seems to be a push and from the upper back. Nico is more of a brick and his upper power is from his legs. At one point he is balanced completely on one leg and still pulls the other guy off. Hats off to Nico.

[@FightCommentary]

Yep. Jan took it too intense and lost part of the spirit of Tai Chi. My camera didn't move when Jan was throwing tantrums every time he got pulled off, but I'm kind of glad I didn't capture that. It was kind of cringe. Jan was hitting himself in the jaw and acting like it was a fight. The whole time in my mind, I was like, "It's just Tai Chi push hands, Jan." Once Niko calmed down and started adapting to Jan's game, look at how Niko applied the internal art of Tai Chi to win.

[@ShorelineTaiChi]

Great matchup.

[@ianoji]

Watch their hips. Niko starts sinking his hips below Jan's level around 14:00 15:00 and starts winning regularly. Weight/skill/strength being equal, lower base wins

[@jasonsecretsword7606]

yes keeping a higher and more narrow stance is how we push when our skill level is very high vs the other. When the opponent is good or strong we need to match width more.

[@basteagui]

the reason jan's base is so much wider than nico is because he is smart and he is placing his hips on the same level as nico. not higher. that's why he needs a wider base cause he is taller.

[@BaconIsNotBiceps]

Mastering the art of pushing people down.

[@tonbonthemon]

Seems like Nico has better postural fundamentals, at 12:36 etc Jan's right foot is kind of collapsing along with the knee, and in general it seems that his hips are driven too far forward. Nico's more relaxed, upright, "sunk", able to change. I believe this is connected to the "attitude" or spirit because agitation creates tension, especially when it's excessive. Afaik Nico's thinking traditionally, emptying the mind and body to be sensitive and ready to change. Taiji is all about yin-yang change. If it's all yang then things can't change and can't flow. The mind and body need to come to rest before moving.

[@BFGalbraith74]

Is this Wu Style (Jan's stance) vs Yang Style (Nico's stance.) According to the forms that's what this would be.

[@zzajizz]

@@BFGalbraith74 looks like it.

[@rabiesbiter5681]

There's a chance that eventually this type of push hands can hurt Taiji, but I don't see that happening anytime soon. Fact is, the Taiji space has been dominated for decades by cooperative push hands and endless solo forms. Even minimal push hands was kind of a rarity for a long time -- a lot of teachers stubbornly stick to Taiji as a dance. We can have more of this intensity without losing the other stuff. Maybe, fifty or sixty years from now if we have a lot of talented pushing hands athletes elevating the competitive format to the level Judo and BJJ have already achieved today, there could be problems. But there's a way to head that off -- diversify. Right now, even sport Taiji is three-tiered. There's forms, fixed step pushing hands and free step pushing hands. We have room for more tiers. Why not Taiji striking? That would involve bare knuckle punches to the body, kicks to the legs plus the free step pushing hands. That's a valid, authentic expression of Taiji. It's not just grappling. Why not Taiji straight sword and saber fencing? Authentic Taiji isn't just Taijiquan. It's also Taijidao and Taijijian among other weapons. So many martial arts get hurt by their competitive format because it becomes the main draw for the schools, hence the only thing that's offered. Athleticism and intensity will help Taiji in the short term, but for long term benefit, forward-looking practitioners need to think about diversifying.

[@lordtains]

I felt that Nico was more technical. It felt to me as if Jan was just using aggressive forwards movement and muscling his way through with speed instead of using sensitivity, relaxation and technique (which kind of defeats the point of pushing hands if you ask me). Using speed and power is great, but using technique is better imo.

[@FightCommentary]

Yep

[@inmemoryofin]

"As we say in Aikido"....? Have you taken up Aikido now? 😂 (24 year practitioner here myself)

[@pinglocalhost]

Where was this hosted, and the name of the event?

[@TieXiongJi]

Obviously I root for the Taiji Man. Took 6 or 8 rounds to get a feel for the youth. His strength and speed won out multiple times. Technique finally flowered! It only gets better as both fighters learn from each other.

[@MikeNewWest]

They are both tai chi guys.

[@proudzerzurancitizen]

jan using tai chi in the way he presents himself tho

[@mickywes3733]

Now they need to have the BJJ guys attempt takedowns on these guys.

[@jestfullgremblim8002]

Nico has sparred wrestlers before. He can actually grapple

[@TheCaptainMorton]

I don't know if these are real rules, but I've always played were grabs are illegal but cupping is fine

[@diphyllum8180]

Another version I've seen is you're allowed to grab with one hand at a time but not both, "because then it's just wrestling"

[@Lordalexzader]

There are many, many rule sets and methods. As a judge, I will typically not award and even penalize players if they are being pushed off or losing their balance and grab the other person to pull them as they fall. In higher levels and more intense push-hands match-ups, however, (especially if doing moving push-hands) every thing can go from sweeps, to throws, joint locks, etc. It really depends on what you are doing. In my experience, actual grabs are not allowed in competition, though trapping is usually okay as long as you don't chin-na people hahaha!

[@jasonsecretsword7606]

Official world rules are grabbing is fine but not with 2 hands at same time.

[@jestfullgremblim8002]

@@Lordalexzader true that hahaha

[@nikolayordanov3115]

14:12 in my experience the anger of a practitioner breaks his tai ji and he starts clashing with his opponent. And (imo) tai ji is rather more about becoming one with your opponent, following, harmonizing.

[@KingoftheJiangl]

Maybe M Lucanis could've benefited from larger stance, since he's lankier and that wouldve provided more of a base. M Niko definitely had a weight advantage and lower center which really started to show itself as time went on

[@jasonsecretsword7606]

Niko kept his stance high. Notice even though he is shorter his hips are above Jan's. Narrowing stane is something we do we=hen we are more skilled than our partner but widening is what you do when the opponent is more skilled. Niko widened his stance once he found he was not against someone unskilled.

[@samuelchau2860]

Nicos more relaxed..

[@Heping1]

Why is one called Sifu and the other one Coach? Just curious...

[@charlesbetancourt7337]

One is more sport push hands. The other is more martial art.

[@Heping1]

@@charlesbetancourt7337 Well, the term "Sifu" is mostly used in southern traditional CMA systems. Taijiquan is a northern System, therefore it should be Shifu.

[@matthewdavid1583]

It’s what they tell people to call them

[@JusticeForHire]

@@matthewdavid1583 LOL

[@QuentinKLEau]

@@Heping1 To be more precise, it is a difference of dialect. Sifu is from the cantonese dialect while Shifu is the official mandarin pronunciation. Similar to Pekin (cantonese) and Beijing (mandarin). It is to be noted that Hong Kong is was historically a part of Canton before being "leased" to the Brits and most of the Chinese diaspora in the US is originated from Canton

[@ericfroshnider3524]

Doesn't really help or hurt Tai Chi any experience is good.There is no footwork here so that's a lack.Also there is something to be said about doing tai chi with a vertical spine meaning you don't lean forward which is beneficial for sensitivity which comes from relaxation and in my opinion the real ability of Tai Chi

[@AnakPintardanSoleh]

LOL

[@geiceribeiro2718]

This other link is very interesting: kzbin.info/www/bejne/e6GteXSZmq2se9k. It shows somes fights with the tai chi.

[@KingoftheJiangl]

This stationary push hands is also not so good in competition because it disallow use of actual finishing throws since most need a step at least, and it turns more into a patty-cake balance game which isn't so useful in martial arts. Useful techniques in this stationary competition are actually sacrifice style where you drag your opponent down after you've lost balance already, whereas in reality, you'd just take a step for a proper counter.

[@charlesbetancourt7337]

It's a competition that came from an exercise/drill to test the strength of your foundation. Olympic weightlifters get into squat positions ,face each other and try push each other off balance. This is something similar.

[@KingoftheJiangl]

@@charlesbetancourt7337 without the cooperative element, stationary push hands gets a bit silly

[@charlesbetancourt7337]

@@KingoftheJiangl I think you should see all five of Nicco's matches before saying that. He dominated everyone except Jan using true push hands.

[@KingoftheJiangl]

@@charlesbetancourt7337 he's definitely good, and that's why he's so dominant, but he's dominant despite the restricted nature of this competition, not because of it. He'd be even more dominant if the restricted step was scrapped because it opens actual taiji techniques

[@charlesbetancourt7337]

@@KingoftheJiangl Kungfu without strong basics is just dancing.No matter what techniques you know,without a strong foundation you'll get stomped. The same with Tai chi. This tests how good your foundation is. Some people are good at both moving step and fixed step. And for some reason Tai chi beats other martial styles at this. This is the main reason I don't think it should be scraped. It showcases how Tai chi's strength is in it's stance. Many people of other martial styles would like it scraped because it embarrassed their style. Nicco beat a black belt and brown belt bjj practitioner at this.

[@richardallan2767]

shovin

[@richardallan2767]

Like, good shovin, but shovin.

[@alonmasri3052]

Chen Zhonghua is the real deal.... real core abilites of Tai Chi...

[@guyfromnj]

Acute triangle? Going off a 30 year memory. Prob wrong

[@fredsmith5782]

Really like both Jan’s and Nico’s approach as both are not wrong. But I’m rather surprised how buff Nico is considering the garb really hid his build.

[@OceanBloke]

The best thing about this, its like boxing, or family karate, u will be a legend in your own lunchbox unless u test it. And martial artists are not usually fit not athletic, so its good to see tai chi styles being "pressure tested" i use that lightly lol but we are seeing better tma and practioners coming out of the fire, lyoto machida, jesse enkamp and his bro oliver, wonderboy thompson and rokias etc they have all improved by stepping out and going thru their respective gauntlets. And some have left their base style after being disapointed only to their thwir failures were their own and have even become better at their base styles by leaving the forest to see the trees.....

[@wiwidity]

Jan is using mechanical force, that could give you first push but in the advance of movements he will lose. When Niko figure out his rigid apporach Jan was busted. Not sayinng that Jan sucks, he developed his way as far that can go

[@FightCommentary]

Yep. Niko seems to be using more of what we casuals all think Tai Chi is. Jan seems to be using what a lot of modern Tai Chi people thinks it is. Likely Niko inherently understands deeper Tai Chi concepts way more, but Jan might be able to use some superficial tai chi concepts in an actual fight. I will interview Niko soon. He's such a cool dude personality wise. You can tell by how he handled this mechanical force pressure (and semi temper tantrum by Jan) in this match.

[@abramlittle7102]

Dude too hyped abt tai chi

[@jestfullgremblim8002]

As everyone should be

[@gavingleemonex3898]

This video only proves why tai-chi is so popular with dames and oldsters.

[@jimmybovver8768]

It's just a video of push hands fixed feet. Nothing more. Have a go yourself it's fun and you will see there is alot going on

[@WarbossR0kt00fSant0s]

First!

[@jestfullgremblim8002]

Congrats

[@MrCarstennielsen]

tricky push, not tai chi.

[@jestfullgremblim8002]

Then what's Taichi? this is a competitive version of a Taijiquan drill, and let me tell you that real Taiji is happening there. Their rooting is top notch, and they know how to "listen" to their opponent's energy. That's mostly what Taijiquan is about, there also are redirections by accepting your opponent's energy and that kind of stuff, and you can also find that here.

[@MCSPARTAN501]

This is what Tai Chi competitions usually are about. Tai Chi competitions are about pushing your opponent. They're not about striking (which Tai Chi isn't good at, except possibly in some kind of points-based system) or throwing (which some interpretations of Tai Chi are known for).

[@OceanBloke]

@@MCSPARTAN501 yeah but usually rare, the practioners are usually not mma quality. Best tai chi n wing chun is usually more like a bruce lee version, not authentic. Because in this era, modern martial arts has neededto evolve, and whats traditional martial arts known for? Evolving lmaooo jokes. XD

[@alexisdominguez3133]

The floor is lava.

[@jestfullgremblim8002]

@@OceanBloke it didn't need to evolve, people just started practicing it wrong. They look at the forms and think that you are supposed to fight exactly like that, they look at some stances and think that those are *fighting* stances. The few Kung Fu styles that are actually not good would be some of the animal styles because we are humans after all, so it doesn't make sense for us to try and fight like one of those animals...

[@peteryeung6840]

To learn what Taiji Is and to appreciate the art I would suggest all interest parties to read the classic texts carefully

[@ShredST]

You really think that back when Chinese martial artists were mostly caravan guards, that they could read at all?

[@vlhendon7185]

Finally, someone using taichi correctly as the wrestling system it was created to be.

[@jimmybovver8768]

This is push hands. Tai Chi is a close quarters system using strikes,low kicks, sweeps, throws and locks, plus alot more besides....

[@jackm2293]

iv been doing this for almost twenty years. im still so dam disapointed by the taiji community. wtf ae people still doing fixed step pushhnads? it a beginner drill !! it has little relation too combate. its just a tool for teaching principals. FFS im so dam embarrassed anytime i tell anyone i do taiji Tuishou.

[@FightCommentary]

I feel your sentiment. Please send me footage of better tai chi that you think would better represent the art. I’m always on the prowl.

[@jackm2293]

@@FightCommentary it would be my pleasure! although it looks like you've got most the best clips on your channel already. if i where you id look for clips of Chen Ziqiang. he is the main prodigy of the Chen family lineage. there are others. i went to china to Chen village. lived there for 9 months. its suck's. bad place for your health. but the best place in the world highest concentration of taiji pushhands players. Chen Ziqiang is in my opinion the best. the number one. So look for his clips. he is also a young and super fit guy. so he demos taiji like it should be done. tight proper Form Relaxed and FAST. its a martial art guys?!? hello? not by some hippy old man with arthritis 'connecting his centre to the earth gravity.' ffs lol. I was just looking myself and i saw one of this guys videos Master Chen Zhonghua. this guy is NOT Chen family. not even chen village style taiji. he learnt in some big city. and has a clearly different but same same sltye of chen taiji. I spent a month with him at a retreat in china. he dose have some good insight and watching his videos you might think him amazing. but he if total BS. the guy thinks that shoulder cow is too aggressive. and not a legit move. he also spent ages bad mothing the chen family calling then county bumkins and gangsters. he is a total dosh imo. although has some interesting and different observations about rotation and power development in taiji. Also i left a comment on this video yesterday. kzbin.info/www/bejne/fKLMkIN9j72tbNk the guy replied. and it will be interesting to see if (and haw) this guy adds tuishou to his next wrestling list. Best wishes too you on your journey bro Love your channel

[@efilwv1635]

MAN BUN ALERT! 🚨

[@CryptoJazz8]

They both don't know taiji.

[@jestfullgremblim8002]

W-What? Go look for the other videos on this series (there is one on this same channel called "Tai Chi Sifu Vs MMA Guys at Tai Chi Push Hands") i really want you to do that and then come back again and say your thoughs on it. Why would you even say that, why do they "not know taiji"?

[@CryptoJazz8]

@@jestfullgremblim8002 Taiji is an internal art, the both have 0 internal skils

[@jestfullgremblim8002]

@@CryptoJazz8 that is not true tho. Do look at the video i told you and/or go to Sifu Nico's Channel where he posts a lot of videos that are more about the internal side of Taijiquan. Anyways, this is what sets apart an internal martial art: 1:An emphasis on using the mind to coordinate the influence and force of the relaxed body, as opposed to the use of brute force. 2:The internal development, circulation, and expression of qì. 3:The application of dǎoyǐn, qìgōng, and nèigōng, Taoist principles of external movement. Sifu Nico has all three of those. And about Coach Jan... maybe he was using a lot of force now, but that was because of this ruleset and because he had made a bet as well. But he sure knows how to do actual Taiji (relaxed instead of a lot of force) and he wasn't using brute force here either, he was using force but in a mindfull way. And Jan also does number 2 and 3. So both of then know Taiji pretty well.

[@essencetaiji1745]

This isn't in alignment with the Tai Chi principles. The term sifu is very arbitrary. Nico is genuine in his dedication to Tai Chi and his principles. it's basically wrestling, what they are doing. Push Hands is not designed to be a competition. Its an exercise to develop qualities.

[@bobbyjolene916]

So is this how the no touch masters test their skills in pushing competitions? I guess you have to know the techniques they are implementing to understand whats happening.

[@jestfullgremblim8002]

These... these are not "No touch masters"

[@bobbyjolene916]

@@jestfullgremblim8002 I know they are not. What I'm saying is it looks ridiculous similar as a competition between two self described no touch masters.

[@georgemckenzie2525]

Check out Adam Mizner

[@jimmybovver8768]

Ha ha ha he's never competed in San Shou or Tui Shou.

[@9Nimbus]

No taichi was used in this video.

[@jimmybovver8768]

An armchair expert

[@freddragoon]

Plenty of the 8 techniques on display

[@eolelf]

I have been practicing Tai Chi for 37 years and am not a fan of this at all. Seems like a colossal wast of time unless your goal is to compete in tournaments with very strict rules. But, I have no interest in Sport Tai Chi at all. I practice push Hands to improve my ability to apply Tai Chi in many self-defense circumstances. I try to use all the forms,, such as ward off, single whip, wave hands, roll back, pull down, fairy weaving at the loom, etc, while doing push hands, as opposed to appearing to be in a shoving match. Tai Chi is a very big tent after all. Best wishes!

[@HiroIndo16]

it's like a pretentious hand sumo 🤣

[@charlesbetancourt7337]

Put a sumo in there of the same weight class,these guys will beat him. Nicco's second to last opponent had 25 lbs on him. He tried sumo and was beaten 15-0.😯

[@HiroIndo16]

@@charlesbetancourt7337 don't you know what hand sumo is?

[@JusticeForHire]

This comment is too brilliant. KZbin should give awards for this. LOL

[@jestfullgremblim8002]

@@JusticeForHire true

[@LB-is4vr]

How is it pretentious? It’s just a game that helps a martial artist understand concepts and develop a skill by isolating a position.

[@The-Contractor]

Two different interpretations of garbage is still garbage. The vast majority of TCC taolu is movement that cannot be manifested in a real world environment. Wm. C.C. Chen is the lone exception. In the early 1970s he took on all challengers and did quite well. William didn't lay back and counter, he attacked aggressively and stuck to his opponent.

[@KelGhu]

This not Taichi to me. Tuishou competitions denature the art.