Chen Ziqiang Sparring with William Miller

Description

[@taopaw]

A lot going on in the apparently quiet parts. Awesome! Mr. Miller did well. Chen Ziqiang is poetry!

[@quantumo2099]

I’ve met Miller and he’s a good cat, no joke either. Respect to both

[@faressaidi2600]

EXCELLENT

[@edwardberge2536]

Does anyone have a link to the mentioned longer video where Miller does much better with Chen? I can't find it on KZbin anymore.

[@CottonBoxer]

what i often see as significant is the upper torso of the lesser players, even having their whole head beyond their base so they can't rely on zhong ding . yet, the better players don't have this structural fault when they play . u will see it in tui shou too, for fun/ .

[@jsphotos]

And this is just grappling, no strikes allowed. With strikes and joint locks, it's all over.

[@thechill262]

actually it is still effective :)

[@symbolsarenotreality4595]

They are both representatives of their skill and experience and this is not a war between styles. At the highest levels all styles are the same by the necessity of us all operating by the same laws of physics. The highest skill uses the least amount of energy/violence to neutralise/balance the situation.

[@symbolsarenotreality4595]

This is both an ethical and energy efficiency principle.

[@symbolsarenotreality4595]

F around and find out is the effect if this is not adhered to.

[@chunp2006]

Hats off to CZQ for grappling with a man twice his size. There's something to Chen taiji - they got some power(Jin). What I don't appreciate is the 8 minutes they left off where the black dude throws the shit out of him. If you watch the whole video, CZQ does well, due to his size, but there is no magic to taiji. Weight and strength make a difference. I don't like how they edited this to seem like CZQ dominated.

[@JeremyRoyaux]

where is the whole vidéo?

[@yukisan78]

I think I know the video you're talking about. I'm not sure if it's the same guy as in this one but it's definitely a different occasion because they don't wear the same clothes. I guess you've confused the two videos. Check the Chen Taiji Atlanta channel for the 8 minutes clip.

[@turbobox]

Different clothes, different video, Mr. Conspiracy

[@julianzhong8900]

That is true, they shouldn't have cut the previous footage out of this video. The fact that he lost in the first half, does not bring any shame on him, but it proves how incredible he was to win the second half against such a big guy.

[@charlesbetancourt7337]

Julian Zhong the first occasion William did throw him once and he wasn't embarrassed to put it on you tube. This is the mark of a true master.

[@kingofaikido]

Miller knows a few blocks.

[@chigglywiggly]

Stop bullying the little Chinese guy!

[@charlesbetancourt7337]

1:36 Yeah I think I should learn how to roll better first.

[@markdonovan1540]

Who "wins" or "loses" is not really relevant, it looks like they are pressure testing some of their skills within a rules restricted contest. In the big vs small, strong vs weak situation the results might not always be as expected. The smaller person has an advantage of lower centre of gravity, the bigger person has advantages of longer reach and larger levers - all physical attributes that someone is born with. Power is work (or energy) divided by time, so a smaller person can deliver highly focused power through speed and correct alignment. A larger heavier person can land powerful blows with less speed as they have more body mass behind it, so possibly they don't need to be as accurate with the strike. How the sensitivity to pressure and touch is developed is perhaps where Tai Chi in particular can make a considerable difference to an expected outcome. However, we should never underestimate an opponent. The untrained, overweight and unfit person could still hurt someone in the right circumstances. The young, inexperienced and weaker opponent can still snatch victory from the jaws of defeat in a careless moment by an over confident adversary. The throwing techniques that worked to excellent effect in some instances, seem to have more to do with judo than TaiChi. Tai Chi martial applications will always be questioned by other styles and systems, and the same could be said of other martial arts too. At the end of the day, real fighting goes beyond all this and although training and preparation can help I think it would be foolish to assume that it would always be successful in a no rules situation. Those who might want to test this for real can probably find many opportunities to do so, but hopefully not too many people would be that foolish or crazy to do it. Even if you "win" there could be other serious consequences in the aftermath. Bruce Lee once said something about the "Art of fighting, without fighting", yes, it was from the film Enter the Dragon of course, where he and his fellow contestants were travelling on the Chinese junk from Hong Kong to fight on "Han's Island". In his unique way, he was trying to share some wisdom with the viewers, but most came away from the movie doing flying kicks and snapping arm and fist movements with all the sound effects......the rest, as they say, is history. I'll never forget going to school the following week..........

[@bushidofreakz]

Throwing techniques = Judo LOL 😂 You gotta patent all throwings as Judo techniques then mate. Just so you know, in Traditional Kungfu especially Northern styles, punches and kicks are just the basics. Along the way disciples gotta learn about throws and locks and those are the advanced moves.

[@markdonovan1540]

Good point, maybe I should have explained it better. Of course, throwing techniques are not exclusive to Judo, I didn't say they were. The way the throw is executed could be based on Tai Chi principles, or it might have techniques coming from Sanda or Judo or anything else the person has trained in. I guess we can call it whatever we want, but the throw reminded me of Judo technique. It was executed very well and took advantage of the more nimble, lower-centre of gravity player against the taller player who positioned his centre of gravity forward and was applying pressure and stepping forward at that moment. A quick yield, turn and trip unbalanced him so the fast throw could be used at that moment - very skilful and superb timing.

[@theolima8929]

Thats a biiiiiiiiiiiiig difference in weight class....

[@ziggydog5091]

Has this video been edited down? I thought it was longer originally. Loved the standing grappling.

[@matthewkeating5353]

There was a different video we’re Miller did better

[@ziggydog5091]

@@matthewkeating5353 thank you must have been thinking of that one.

[@matthewkeating5353]

Check out latest fight commentary breakdown title is something like Kung fu master tests pressure point against muaythai clinch it features both of these guys

[@charlesbetancourt7337]

@@matthewkeating5353 I think right commentary breakdown should. comment on this match. And some of Chen Ziqisngs other matches.

[@matthewkeating5353]

I agree Charles

[@leonardocastelli6502]

In this video not internal energy, only external energy and external tricks. This is normal external fighting, free style wrestling. This is not tuishou.

[@indefenceofthetraditionalma]

I don’t think you understand what internal martial arts is about. If you only use yin then your technique won’t work. You would crumble into the ground. Don’t forget that there has to be yin in yang and yang in yin

[@leonardocastelli7457]

@@indefenceofthetraditionalma I always use yin and yang, yang in yin, yin in yang. But if yin yang don't come from internal side, tuishou becomes normal external free style wrestling. That's not real tuishou.

[@indefenceofthetraditionalma]

@@leonardocastelli7457 that’s false and leads to phoney teachers conning vulnerable students out of money. Now there are varying degrees to how intense you go in your practice but you either believe tai chi is a martial art or it’s purely for health. You can’t have freestyle pushing hands with no strength at all.

[@leonardocastelli7457]

@@indefenceofthetraditionalma that's not false :-) taichi is a powerful martial art and it's also a practice very good for health. Both at the same time. If you are able to use internal energy you can practice freestylepushinghands without external strength. I don't want to conn anybody and I dont care if you believe it or not :-)

[@indefenceofthetraditionalma]

@@leonardocastelli7457 I already said you can practice with varying degrees of intensity, so of course you can practice freestyle pushing hands with no external strength used at all. You won’t ever be able to stop someone who is intent on moving you though. It’s not that that’s something I believe. It’s been shown to be the case over and over again. If you have proof to the contrary then please share it. Otherwise you’re just another believer of woo or a con artist

[@soleilislamauthentique]

hi , we see big difference between yang taichi and chen taichi. chen taichi 's goal is defend the martial art and taking risk with challenge. yang taichi modern s master seems to be more like "master hero's" that is like superman admired by his students and without any challenge. all the tuishou are often prepared and the student is easily beatten

[@diphyllum8180]

Chen is the original tai chi. Yang is the national style, which was intentionally de-fanged by the government so that people could train traditional arts without actually learning to fight.

[@DxModel219]

Diphyllum, thanks. good to know. Alot of chinese martial arts have been lost or watered down because the government "de-fanged" or ban them.

[@diphyllum8180]

I've heard that they still teach the martial applications in "closed door" classes and that the de-fanged version is just the "open door" version that most often gets taught. I practice a rare style, Rose Li's form from the "fire deity temple" in Beijing, and it's like a tighter version of Yang with some applications more like Wu, and I've heard that it looks similar to the "closed door" version of Yang. Just as an example in some of the moves they're about rotating the opponent's forearm, but in the "open door" Yang form, the hands are way too wide apart from one another, like nobody's arm is that long. It looks similar in practice but just by expanding it too much they made it useless

[@charlesbetancourt7337]

Any videos showing Chen sparring with punching and kicking? He seems to know how to shut down a grappler. But that's only half the game.

[@zee1645]

the founder of yang taichi is no doubt a legend. Being able to make a name for himself in Beijing, the capital, and being called the invincible Yang is no joke during Qing dynasty. His sons were really great as well. However, his grandson had only started picking up the family arts after his sons have died. Much have been lost in their family. No one ever since is good at all... The last grand master in yang style is probably Yongquan Wang. There are some of the students that are really good with only components of the Yang taichi. But no one can be called good enough to be a fighter/master

[@indefenceofthetraditionalma]

Pushing hands isn’t sparring

[@charlesbetancourt7337]

It's practicing takedown defence against a wrestler. William miller is a grappler. There's video of him competing at at a grappling event. For more of this, see "practical method by Sun Yang vs.wrestling 20220328 ".

[@indefenceofthetraditionalma]

@@charlesbetancourt7337 I don’t need to look at anything though. This isn’t sparring.

[@charlesbetancourt7337]

@@indefenceofthetraditionalma If your a wrestler(William Miller is a wrestler). then yes it is.

[@indefenceofthetraditionalma]

@@charlesbetancourt7337 it’s not. Wrestling is wrestling. Pushing hands is pushing hands. Sparring is sparring.

[@charlesbetancourt7337]

@@indefenceofthetraditionalma I guess by your title, you believe in traditional martial arts. There is a video showing something they've been doing in Chen village china for hundreds of years, it"s called Taiji wrestling in Chen village" it is Tai chi and it"s not push hands. It"s wrestling.

[@76kamikazi]

Can someone tell me what grappling skills Miller has.Because all i see is a big out of shape guy trying to use brute force to topple the little guy.

[@charlesbetancourt7337]

There's a video of William Miller winning a grappling match at a grappling competition. I think it's titled " William Miller".

[@symbolsarenotreality4595]

Clearly you have no idea what the grappling skills are being employed here. All you have is an assertion with no reasoning or evidence to support it. All you do is show how ignorant and arrogant you are if you can't see the techniques used. You have a very limited knowledge of standing grappling and take downs. Now go through it again and look closer. Come back to reality when you can actually discuss the techniques being used instead of pretending there is none because you simply hate tai ji and think that a half dozen people online represent an entire style from a nation 5 times the size of any in the west.

[@LookingInwardly]

"I am not a meat-hook"... Just saying

[@PrudentStudent666]

Big time wrestling! WWF

[@Darthflips]

Ive never been in a hug fight. Looks brutal

[@symbolsarenotreality4595]

Don't give up your dayjob mate to become an edgy comedian to cover up your bias and incredulity

[@monkkenyon2539]

Not to hate, but the white dude really didn't go hard at all like he was a willing dummy.

[@AztecUnshaven]

neither of them is white lol

[@monkkenyon2539]

@@AztecUnshaven William Miller then, fuck lol

[@charlesbetancourt7337]

@@monkkenyon2539 William Miller went hard and aggressive in their first match. He was first successful then Chen turned the match around. All who spar him have learned they better conserve their energy and root their stance

[@charlesbetancourt7337]

There's more of this now. 2atch the video's Tai Chi push hand (Tian Long tai chi) vs wrestling. Four video's and 4 matches. Two tai chi competitors vs. 3 wrestlers. First tai chi guy in matches 1-3. Less experienced one I match 04

[@symbolsarenotreality4595]

@@charlesbetancourt7337 Stop whinging and trying to detract from what you see here like some ridiculous sophist sales pitch.

[@dmitryivanov7870]

что это за захваты, вольник разложил бы их давно!!!

[@charlesbetancourt7337]

There's video footage of the green shirt black guy competing in wrestling and winning.

[@76kamikazi]

If any of these guys can really fight, why hasn’t anyone shut Xu Xiadong mouth down.It took the Chinese government to shut him down to keep from been exposed for the martial arts fraud that they are and keep the MONEY rolling in from western SUCKERS.Listen to the comments some of you idiots are making,still believing in the Kung fu folklore that had us westerners fooled by the Kung fu movies of the 1970ths ,yes we all taught they could do all that stuff that’s why we all sing up and i bet to this day peoples are doing just silly forms.You keep praising these Kung fu peoples of the past,how the hell do you know they were these super human fighters did you see it know,is there any videos of it know, pictures know news paper articles know,the only old video they have is of the white crane and taichi artist fighting and i have seen better fighting than that in a school playground.I am so damm sick of you peoples making up excuses for the Chinise arts i have heard every last one of them for over 40years of been in the martial arts and not one not one has came forward and represented pure Kung fu, the ones that do fight are kick boxing mix with grappling wish is the practical way to fight.

[@charlesbetancourt7337]

For starters go to the video "Amazing k.o.by Han Feilong" He is a tai Chi a d northern shaolin kungfu practitioner who uses it in the kickbox ring. Theres also a vietnamese kungfu practitioner Tran Quang who recently who a mma championship fight and he fought from a horse stance not kickboxing. If your still not happy I can show at least ten more videos. Times have changed.

[@76kamikazi]

Charles Betancourt Dude are you really serious, those damm fights coming out of china/Hong Kong are so damm fake a ballet dancer can go in there and spin on her toes and come out a world champion.

[@charlesbetancourt7337]

@@76kamikazi O.K. dude here's 4 more for you. Even Joe Rogan caved in and admitted some things on the first one. 1) Wingchun in mma UFC (tony ferguson,Anderson Silva, Jon Jones). 2)Zabit Magomedshapirov Shaolin kungfu mma fighter). Notice the bow he does with the fist to the palm of hand that says he does kungfu. 3) mfo2-Tran Quan Loc vs. Ngyuyen Van Kamil. 4)20 second Capeoira knockout.Capeoira vs. boxing.

[@symbolsarenotreality4595]

So you think a half dozen videos on youtube supported by the west to smear china and its arts represents an entire style from a nation 5 times the size of the USA? China has over 200 times the naval military productive power of the USA yet unlike the USA, has not invaded nation after nation with lie after lie all for profit, power and resource control. USA works tirelessly every day to smear China. Its all they have left, simply lies.

[@joshpickles9022]

No one said they could fight. Did they? Was there an announcement saying they were fighters? It's just a demo but you took it as a declaration of being some kind of warrior?

[@MR-nl8xr]

Pfff, never would have got that far in a real fight; what a joke.

[@AztecUnshaven]

both of these dudes would slap the shit outta you with ease.

[@charlesbetancourt7337]

Opinion or proven fact. Chen accepts challenges. Punches to the face and throat are encouraged.

[@irobot428]

@@AztecUnshaven no they wouldnt. Both would get mauled by an experienced grappler/MMA fighter who is seasoned in both standup and ground game lmoa

[@AztecUnshaven]

@@irobot428 lol Chen Zhiqiang has taken on challenges for years. The big guy (william Miller) is a beast and is well versed in grappling overall (and yes, he's been in submission tournaments).

[@irobot428]

@@AztecUnshaven bro, william is not going 100%. Bring in a NCAA or olympic wrestler or IBJJF blackbelt in there to challenge the man. Dude is getting mauled. Even if we went by weight class. He’s still getting mauled. Until I see someone with some credentials challenging these tai chi masters. Then I’ll believe it.