Chris Date-Conditional Immortality: A Comprehensive Case

[@brettfaryniarz581]

I couldn't square what I used to read with ECT. I started learning about Conditional immortality a few years ago. I see this doctrine so clearly now. Thank you Chris, Edward and all who contribute to teaching this doctrine.

[@Landis_Grant]

I know of one Baptist raised evangelical Christian by the name of Dr. David Reagan who also prescribes to conditional immortality.

[@cddpmpls35]

..it is abundantly clear in the scriptures that we do not have immortal souls........

[@lifestationexpresslinda9425]

When I understood this, it all made sense.

[@cddpmpls35]

@@lifestationexpresslinda9425 😊😁😊 ..praise jesus..

[@budekins542]

I am now convinced by this and other videos and writings that conditional immortality is a reality. Some people will be suffering in the 'lake of fire' for a Long time - and then will be destroyed.

[@FRN2013]

Congrats, Bud! Obviously you were convinced by the teaching and understanding of Scripture. Welcome aboard!

[@JasonJohnSwartz]

@Mark Park of the recorded videos and lectures use scripture to justify the view then the person has been convinced through the videos that scripture supports the view. So in the end the person has been convinced through scripture by watching the videos. The reading of our bibles on our own is something every true believer should do. That is obvious. However it still requires videos to help remove the traditional lense of ECT to view the verse in a new light.

[@marktrout167]

I’m so glad I learned this

[@SarahsKnight0]

8:30 - If we downplayed the holiness of God (which means "set apart", if I recall), then we would continue to believe the traditional view, which keeps sin in existence forever.

[@petergrice]

That is a creative-and I believe valid-way to think about it. Habbakuk's declaration, "Your eyes are too pure to look on evil" really implies not only that evil should meet with its consequence, but also that evil should meet its demise as a foreign object in the cosmos of a holy Creator. Whoever opines that evil will exist forever hasn't thought deeply enough about the problem.

[@petergrice]

@@Charles.Wright if people can be temporarily disembodied I would assume that sinful intent remains, even if it is not possible to commit sins as acts. But in resurrection on Judgment Day a person is judged according to things done "in the body" (2 Cor 5:10), i.e. during their lifetime.

[@sandiec6063]

Thankyou God that truth is being restored to the Church in these end times. Eternal torment doctrine is from demons.

[@trevoralexander7727]

This is the view that is biblical and it harmonizes the loving nature of God with his perfect justice much better than eternal torture. Jesus said some people’s judgement will be more bearable than others. Annihilationism still leaves room for degrees of punishment, but ultimately destruction. Why would God leave evil around forever anyway? Jesus told us to love our enemies and he can’t tell us to do that unless he loves them, which of course he does. God’s wrath and total destruction on the unrepentant is ultimately a final act of love toward them by putting them out of their misery.

[@jaycliinuy4627]

We have evil forever on earth. Next!

[@mr.e1220]

I believe this view is the most biblical, but I still have a hope that universalism is true. That after the soul is destroyed God restores everything.

[@JasonJohnSwartz]

AMEN 🙏

[@Landis_Grant]

The degrees of and duration of the punishment of unbelievers will depend on their works. Suppose they end up in the lake of fire, will their resurrected mortal bodies feel the burning painful sensation of the fire for say 5 years?

[@Landis_Grant]

@@mr.e1220 Universalism makes God a sadist.

[@dpcrn]

This is my first exposure to this idea. It’s interesting. I will consider it.

[@LennyCash777]

It's been 11 months since you've considered it. Have you accepted it?

[@dpcrn]

@@LennyCash777 Considered it? Yes, thought about it several times. But I have not taken the time to dive deep into the material. It's a time issue. My job has been killing me. The medical world (I'm a Home Health nurse) has been overwhelmed. I know that sounds like an excuse, but it's really a matter of priority. I simply don't have much free time, and I have to spend that free time carefully.

[@dpcrn]

Eg, I listened to his interview by another youtuber. I do a lot of listening while driving down the road.

[@WilliamTanksleyJr]

​@@dpcrn - thank you for taking care of people that way. That's an essential task. I spent two years considering this (back in ... I don't know, 2012 or so), and one thing that helped was going through a Bible reading program while thinking about this. That helped because it assured me I wasn't missing some verse that would make the whole thing obvious, but it also helped me to see what I'd never noticed in earlier readings. Much quicker was reading a decent pro-eternal-torment book - in my case, "Hell Under Fire." Later, after I'd decided, I helped produce a multipart audio podcast review of that book on the Rethinking Hell podcast. (I recommend you pick for yourself, that's just the one I picked -- it's still my favorite pro-eternal-torment book). I also listened to Chris Date debating Chris Rosebrough; at the time Date wasn't convinced completely, but he knew enough to debate. I'd say that's also helpful, although you probably want to pick more recent debates, the one with Date vs. Pettis is probably better.

[@walterhelm8186]

Good! It is the grace-centered, Christ-centered biblical view.

[@REDRAGON12345]

Interesting how Date is also a Calvinist. Although I am a firm believer in Arminianism as the biblical view, I can see how this Conditional Immortality would make Calvinism far more palatable.

[@The_Scouts_Code]

i thought this was interesting too

[@Arabian_Abomination]

Calvinism plus anihilationism is the only thing that maximizes the Justice and love of God

[@FRN2013]

Arminianism plus conditionalism are what faithfully represent the justice and love of God, IMHO. But good people can disagree on that.

[@BiblicalStudiesandReviews]

That’s exactly right

[@HappyBuzzCut]

Calvin is an anti-semite and does not deserve to have his name attached to God's act of sovereignty. Romans 9 was pretty clear to me when I was of arminian thinking and I wrestled with it but now accept it fully. It left a question in my mind, "Do these people who cannot love God by their nature from birth burn for all eternity if they are not part of God's elect?" It left my stomach sour. Through research and resources like Edward Fudge (at the time) I came to the conclusion God destroys.

[@OldSchoolBaptistInOslo]

Thank you, brother Chris, for restoring conditional immortality back to the church. This is what the apostles believed indeed. Also, I am sorry about the two children you have lost. I would like to comfort you and say that faith is not a sacrament to obtain eternal life. The Lord obtained eternal life for all his children on the cross. You can live in the hope that they could very well be children of God and be united with you and the Lord in glory. God bless you, brother. Hebrews 9:12 KJV - Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us. 2 Timothy 2:19 KJV - Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

[@MichaelHernandez-lc2wb]

This is a consequential trend. Conditional immortality is the best option to alleviate the consequences of Calvinism.

[@tomvondra2632]

"eternal punishment" of Mt:25:46 was an obsticle fo me until I discovered that the Greek term used is "kolasin" which literally means to cut off, not torment, "basanos" is the Greek term for torment

[@lifestationexpresslinda9425]

Thanks for sharing that!

[@AnHebrewChild]

I believe in conditional immortality but I'm left scratching my head at your comment on Mat25:46 According to every Greek dictionary I have including Liddel & Scott and Bailly, κόλασιν does not mean to cut off, but simply means punishment. κόλασις, chastisement, correction, punishment, retribution Etymologically it has to do with checking the growth of trees, but in practical import from Attic to Homeric to Koine it just means 'punishment.' Note: this does not militate against a CI interpretation but it doesn't mean "cut off." It just doesn't. Look up all the LXX usages too.

[@Marcus_Thomas_]

The truth right here.

[@pastorart1974]

I would love to see the list of Scriptures in writing proving his point.

[@michahsimmons7568]

You can see his points much more fully fleshed out on his website: rethinkinghell.com. Simply searching any verses relevant to hell and its nature will point you to detailed inspections of the verse, its context, and what it means. I'm not fully decided on this issue, but I do feel he makes exceptional points in all areas on this subject. Having read several books by professional theologians on the topic, I still see his arguments as highly compelling.

[@pastorart1974]

@@michahsimmons7568 I have read the entire Bible several times. During the year I was overseas with the Navy and the Vietnam War, I read the New Testament thru about once a month. Hell is a real place and people who die without their sins forgiven, go there, forever. Every Human being had an immortal soul which lives forever, somewhere. Jesus is the One Who died in your place and mine. I have asked Jesus to forgive my sins. Have you?

[@michahsimmons7568]

@@pastorart1974 Which verses, specifically, do you believe supports this belief? If it's Matthew 25:41-46, Revelation 20:10, etc, I would point out that these verses have, from my understanding, fallen into the trap of Illegitimate Totality Transfer, in which the English translation for the Greek words used was done so based on assumption of meaning (wide range to choose from) rather than certainty; upon further reflection of the Greek in these verses and Hebrew within Old Testament verses which are quoted by Jesus and others as an allusion to Gehenna (not Hades), it seems clear to me that the intention of the words "eternal" as translated actually means "age" or "era". How do you explain Matthew 10:28, Matthew 7:13, Romans 6:23, 2 Thes. 1:9, 2 Peter 2:6, etc, etc, in which it is explicitly stated that those who are unbelievers will be destroyed (the Greek word used for destruction is used in other contexts where one person is attempting to destroy another) forever? Simply reading the scriptures in English is not sufficient to fully understanding the nuances of something so rarely spoken of in the New Testament, let alone the Old, as Gehenna/Gehinnom. Also, your claim that we all have eternal souls contradicts Rev. 13:8, 1 Tim. 6:15, Luke 20:34-36, etc). Many of the early church fathers were conditionalists. It wasn't until around 400 AD that this changed, as the "church" became much more corporatized. I am a Christian, yes (believing in an eternal hell is not a co-requisite). I was also a Nuke (ET) in the Navy for 6 years and my father was a Green Beret who served in Viet Nam (since passed due to agent orange), so we have a decent amount in common. Be blessed. :)

[@pastorart1974]

@@michahsimmons7568 I don't believe the Bible supports this guy's beliefs at all.

[@michahsimmons7568]

@@pastorart1974 I was asking which verses you feel support your belief in a traditionalist interpretation of Gehenna. :)

[@willbronson9658]

I just watched Ana Vidovic of Croatia play Clair de lune on her guitar. It moved me to respond to the T in the TULIP formula with which I take such exception. When I think of Total Depravity, what comes to my mind are the comments of Aquinas and Edwards as quoted in my book How to Get To Heaven, p67. Essentially they both said that the saved would enjoy heaven more for having the opportunity to view the eternal suffering of the lost. That is not theology, that is psychosis! When I think of all the scripture that shows God rejoicing in and with His creation, I have to wonder what Calvin was thinking about. Maybe he was thinking about the role he played in the burning of Servetus. Now that was Total Depravity. But don't force your hangups, Mr. Calvin, on the whole of the human race and on Holy Scripture. I suspect David's prayer was answered that God placed his tears in His bottle. Calvin may despise the human race, but I think God loves much of it, especially when He listens to Ana play Debussy.

[@tammyproffitt7124]

my point is sin will be destroyed in the end not to live forever and all things become new the Bible clearly says

[@derp8575]

He defines eternal life as life in Heaven and eternal death as Hell with eternal consciousness. He doesn't reject the idea of both Heaven and Hell containing eternal consciousness.

[@billyrigoyourbeardedrealto1471]

Need some help. I'm looking for maybe a pdf outline or something like that with lots of scripture supporting conditional immortality. Something to share with people with a concise outline but with out a bunch of words. If that makes sense.

[@FRN2013]

Maybe there's something like that at Rethinking Hell

[@Landis_Grant]

The late Edward Judge authored such a book.

[@exclusive_148]

i would love to see Chris date debate sam shamoun on the hell topic. Everyone needs to watch sams lecture on ghenna, sheol/hades/hell

[@riverjao]

Dr. John Noe is a Calvinist who holds to apokatastasis (ultimate reconciliation). He has a book on it titled “Hell Yes? Hell No?”.

[@exclusive_148]

somebody explain that says they will have no rest day or night

[@TKK0812]

Read Isaiah 34, particularly 9-10. This is where Revelation is clearly pulling its language from, yet it is talking about the destruction of nations. Is smoke still rising from Edom? Has the fire been quenched or is Edom still burning? Does the passage elude to Edom being tormented or destroyed?

[@exclusive_148]

@@TKK0812 I think you make a great point regarding the language being used - Particularly smoke rising. BUT, i think revelation adds certain language to let us know that this is not a metaphor when it used "they will have no rest day or night". Where else in scripture is this language used where the meaning "no rest day or night" is temporary??? I think this can only mean one thing. Smoke rising forever we could clearly see is a metaphor because we can prove it from the destruction of Edom. But having no rest day or night is more specific and sounds like more literal. How would you address that?

[@TKK0812]

@@exclusive_148 Great question, and I think its a valid concern. That being said, it doesn't detract from the clear language in the passage relating to destruction, one that the readers would have been familiar with concerning the OT text. We're not told that the days and nights never cease. It's also again something John "saw", and it's not as though he is relaying back to us an exact picture of what the future will be. This is highly symbolic language. Yes, they will indeed have “no rest,” but when will this happen? It will be during the tribulation period while on this earth (which I believe is now but could be future). It is important to note that in the previous verse, John wrote in the Greek future tense and refers to the Great White Throne Judgment where the lost will be tormented “in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb” on Judgment Day. This is a future event for John. The Greek tense is in the future. In this verse, John changes tenses. It is in the Greek present tense. This cannot be stressed enough. “And they have no rest day and night, who are bowing before the beast and his image.” (Young’s Literal Translation-Revelation 14:11) The apostle John writes this word “proskuneo” (worship/bowing) in the Greek present tense. The present tense is the tense he chooses to use to describe the rest of the events of Revelation that occur on the earth. So this must be while on earth since it is in the same Greek tense. Look at verse 9 in which the unsaved “worship” (also in the Greek present tense) the beast “and receive his mark.” This is very important because it clearly occurs while on this earth. So, if the receiving of this mark (whatever it may be) is on this earth, then the worshipping in 14:11 must also be on this earth. Hence, the “no rest day or night” must occur on this earth as well before the judgement. The “no resting day or night” occurs while they are “bowing” and “worshipping” (present tense) the beast. This occurs during the time on earth when the book of Revelation events are being unfolded. These are people who are forced to receive the mark of the beast (Revelation 13:16). John also tells us that painful sores break out on their body, “And there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.” (Revelation 16:2) This is while they are on the earth. Additionally-the very next verse states “Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus” (Revelation 14:12). Why is this important? Because “keeping” is in the very same tense! John’s statement of those “who keep (present tense) the commandments” must be at the same time as those who have “no rest” and are “worshipping (present tense) the beast.” Therefore-this is conclusive proof that these both occur on the earth. Need more proof? Well, the same Greek word and tense of “worship” (of God this time) is also used in Revelation 11:1 where it is absolutely clear that the “worship” is going on in the present tense upon this earth. Let me repeat-Revelation 11:1, 14:11, 16:2, all have the same Greek tense! You have to make them all be acts of “worship” while upon this earth. Read Revelation 16:2. How can anyone “rest day or night” when they have painful such sores on their body and are forced to worship the beast? They can't. (Revelation 14:11 & 16:2). And John specifically tells us when this worshipping shall occur-it is when they “dwell upon the earth.” “And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him…” (Revelation 13:8) So the worshipping and the no resting both occur while upon this earth. Thoughts?

[@exclusive_148]

@@TKK0812 Well im not disputing that "the smoke of their torment rising" can be symbolic language. Especially because of the fact you can make a direct and clear CROSS REFERENCE to the OT specifically Isaiah. But its different with revelation because "they will have no rest day or night" can not be crossed referenced to anything (to my knowledge) therefore to say is symbolic is just an unprovable assumption. It leaves me no other choice but to read it literally, UNLESS theres a cross reference. ***Maybe revelation uses "smoke rising" to show that the judgement and destruction will be LIKE edom with fire, but then adds "no rest day or night" to show that this time it'll last forever!**** And Yes, we aren't told that day and night will never cease But we aren't told it will cease either. So you have to assume one or the other and if you take it literally then day and night is never ending because thats the literal interpretation. I can see why a rising smoke can be symbolic even if isaiah wasnt referenced but i cant see how "no rest day and night" can be symbolic. You would have to say that the destruction last 1 day or 12hrs for me to make sense of day and night without resting not being forever. But this wouldnt make sense eaither because since it uses the symbolic language of isaiah it shows that the judgement destroys sooner than 12hrs because the fire will literally consume quick and actually they technically WILL have rest quick because they will die quick rather than mot resting for 12hrs or 1 day. I think if the bible wanted to make it clear that day and night will cease then it would of told us just like it tells us that the smoke rising is symbolic. Its VERY INTERESTING that it added "they wont rest day or night" Especially given the fact that judgement by fire and destruction is almost instantaneous which means that if the destruction is instantaneous then it wouldn't even make ANY sense whatsoever to add "they wont rest day or night" -Regarding the events happening on earth I have no dispute over that and see no conflict because many believe Hell is literally on this planet/earth But thanks for your answer! I find it very thorough and Very detailed ! Any thoughts on my response? -To summarize: It seems to me that Rev 14:11 talks about a judgement similar to the judgement of edom. Where fire consumes the enemies of God. But this time the judgement will last forever In a hell located on earth because it adds "no rest day or night" which cant mean that the judgement will cease because if the judgement ceased then it wouldnt compare it to the destruction of edom where the judgement consumed the enemy quickly before it could be day or night. Because if the judgement was like edom then day or night wouldnt be used.

[@TKK0812]

@@exclusive_148 I think you missed my strongest point, and that is John switching from future tense (which I believe contains all the happenings of judgement pulled from Isaiah) to present tense, which is what is happening during the tribulation. I don't think the day and night is symbolic in the same way, just that we have to look at what is taking place during this day and night. Revelation 16:2 again talks about this worship of the beast. So does Revelation 14:11. This is all part of the 7 bowls of Gods wrath, which is before the White Throne Judgement, so it cannot be speaking of a type of hell on earth. Beyond that, Col 1:20 talks about God through Christ reconciling all things to Himself, whether on earth or in heaven. Therefor, I think it's impossible that there would be an unreconciled part of the cosmos after judgement, especially on earth. Another point would be that Paul says in Thessalonians that one day every knee will bow and every tongue confess. It seems rather strange to say that the beast worship is taking place in a hell on earth after all people have bowed and confessed and worshipped God. Whether they will be saved after is different, but the beast worship will cease, meaning that "day and night" cannot be speaking of the eternal state.

[@The_Scouts_Code]

What he says about conditionalism seems tight but then the Calvinism and physicalism comes out and it makes me wonder...

[@jordandthornburg]

MyLifeForAuir87 then reject what’s wrong and hold what is good

[@michaelnewzealand1888]

Conditionalism argument is very very tight. I am not a Calvinist either.

[@julietrae8665]

@@michaelnewzealand1888 CALVIN HAD TWISTED SCRIPTURE.

[@Ellie-tc5px]

Its fair to note that Chris Date is actually in the minority here. The vast majority of Conditionalists are in fact dualists. Although they adhere to the more traditional view and understanding of “immortal soul” which is simply that the soul survives the natural death of this age.

[@neveralone6770]

Knowing that Jesus taught how few will make it through the Narrow Gate, I’m wondering how those who hold the Eternal Conscious Torment view can bring children into this world (called gifts from God) knowing that statistically they’re likely to find the wide path that leads to destruction (hint hint). Just saying.

[@Reyes78]

I've been thinking about that too.

[@CherryFrog321]

Exactly. That's a huge reason that the eternal torment doctrine doesn't make sense. And it makes me think of Andrea Yates, the woman who drowned her five young children. She and her husband had been part of a fundamentalist church that obviously taught eternal torment, and that made a huge contribution to her mental illness. She later said that she thought she was a bad mother who wasn't raising her children to be godly enough, and said that she killed them to save them from hell. And I mean...if you honestly believe in eternal torment, was what she did really so awful? Eternal torment believers do always assure everyone that children who die don't go to hell since they're too young to be held responsible for their sins. Andrea believed that her kids would automatically go straight to heaven and escape hell since they were still young. So why wouldn't any parent want to make sure their child dies before reaching the "age of accountability" to ensure that there's absolutely no possibility that they'll end up being tortured in the worst ways imaginable for all eternity? When it comes to the Yates children, there were five of them, so it's fairly likely that out of five, at least one of them would have grown up to not follow Christ. Sure, it's sad that their whole earthly lives were cut short. But 80 or so years on Earth doesn't even compare to the trillions upon trillions of years they'd spend in eternity. So again, wouldn't any parent who believed in eternal torment do whatever it takes to ensure that their child doesn't suffer that fate? And if the doctrine were true, that really would mean that Andrea Yates actually did a good thing for her children in the long run, because she did likely save at least one of them from an eternity of agonizing pain and torture. Sometimes, I really just don't think eternal torment believers really, truly grasp the concept of "eternity."

[@julietrae8665]

@@CherryFrog321 YES! YES YES YES YES YES YES! I REMEMBER MY HATRED TOWARD HER AS A YOUNG MAN...I CAN ALMOST "ALMOST" UNDERSTAND NOW. ONE THING, THE WICKED ARE NOT CONSIDERED GODS SEED. RIGHT? 1ST JOHN 2ND JOHN EVEN PARTS OF IST GENESIS. 2 SEEDS. ONE OF SATAN, ONE OF GOD, AND SO MY ONLY PROBLEM IS.. CONDITIONALISTS, THEY FORGET, THE WICKED IS NOT FROM GOD. BUT OF THE SEED OF THE SERPENT. WE GO BY THE 66 BOOKS OF THE 1600'S BIBLE. THE BOOKS OF ENOCH ARE IGNORED AS NON INSPIRED, YET EVERY BOOK YOU CAN FIND IF YOU STUDY, THE ENOCHIAN SCROLLS. AFTER 10 YEARS OF STUDYING THEM, I FOUND THE BEGINNING IN GENESIS AND 5 BOOKS OF THE OT. ALL THE WAY THROUGH MALACHI - REVELATION.. THEY TOOK AWAY THE APOCRYPHA TOO, AND IF YOU WAS TO STUDY THOSE, IT CHANGES HISTORY. EVERYTHING HAS BEEN HELLENIZED. ..SORRY. BUT YEAH, I AM RESPONSIBLE FOR NOT TEACHING MY KIDS THE BIBLICAL, GOD FEARING, "RIGHT" WAY. O EVEN IF I WAS A DOPE HEAD, AND FOUND GOD, THROUGH-OUT CHRIST, MY KIDS, AND THEIR KIDS WILL DRINK OF HIS WRATH..AS HARD AS I TRY NOW? IT'S SEPARATED US, AND THEY WANT NOTHING TO DO WITH ME..OR GOD. I CAN ONLY PRAY .. THIS IS UPSETTING/DEVASTATING EVEN FOR MY GRANDKIDS. THERE BLOOD IS ON MY HEAD.

[@1920s]

It’s one of the reasons why I’ve never had children.

[@1920s]

@Jose Perhaps His plan is for me to not have children.

[@AnHebrewChild]

55:00 very astute question

[@cryptojihadi265]

The guy thinking that how is dying a second time punishment if EVERYONE dies naturally, has it backwards. They aren't raised so they can be punished, they are raised so those who have received Christ can put on eternal life. God could have ended everything with the first death, BUT before He even created the Earth and Adam and Eve, Christ was already slain, as God knew they would sin, and therefore bear the sentence of death, so He already had provision for redemption and restoration of life. Notice how Paul says it's at the resurrection at Christ's returns that we put on immortality. Although not specifically stated in the Bible, I think there is a supernatural aspect to the lake of fire where it doesn't just consume flesh, but also evil or wickedness. So I do think that part of the reason the wicked are raised up is to consume that part of evil in them. This is how I think there will be varying degrees of punishment or pain before they cease to exist. The more wicked someone is, the more evil to consume, the longer they will burn and suffering during that process. Just as a piece of paper is consumed in a fire very quickly, but a log take a long time to burn up, so those that weren't that evil, won't suffer nearly as long as those like Hitler, who literally caused MILLIONS of years of human pain and suffering over not just the 6 million Jews he killed but the millions that suffered in concentration camps for years.

[@nigelspostbag]

Where is the punishment going to be for the unrepentant unbeliever. Think about this fact any who die before the wrath of God comes, the worst punishment that's going to happen to them is they will die. So, imagine you're a young person who has their life ahead of them, you want to live as you please, be rich, live in adultary and trample over any who get in your way. Then you hear the gospel and you are told if you reject Christ and continue like this you will die. Or believe and not die and receive eternal life. You ask, why would I want to live forever when I can live now, do what I want and die? What's the advantage you say? Then a Christian opens his bible and reads Hebrews 9:27. It is appointed for a man to die once and then come judgment. You respond, but I was told that when I die that that's it. Then the Christian continues to explain that at the white throne judgment that any who are dead and not found in the book of life will be cast into the lake of fire. You by this time realise that Christ has not only paid your dept if sin with his life but he has given you eternal life and the second death won't hard you. What do you do now?

[@Landis_Grant]

“Vengeance is mine” saith the Lord. Justice will be served by God Himself and not by an earthly jury and judge. Murderers who reject Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord will be totally annihilated (cease to exist). That is a very fair sentence.

[@MessyLittleFoodie]

If we believe in substitutionary atonement, we can't deny the fact that Jesus suffered torment which culminated in death. Not the other way around. This to me is the simplest way of understanding how what Jesus experienced on the cross is what we actually deserved, but thanks to him won't have to if we believe and remain in Christ. It makes zero sense to me to think we deserve eternal conscious torture when Jesus took that on himself in our place but isn't now still suffering said torment. He suffered then died. And just before he died he said "it is finished". If the actual punishment came after the physical death, then Jesus would not have said it was finished just before he physically died. It also makes no sense since he was God incarnate that the penalty would be carried out post mortem, because then God the son would not have been able to be raise again bodily. Because he would have remained "dead" and in torment in hell for all eternity. If you take this in the context of all other scripture that pains the image of what happens to the righteous and what happens to the wicket, it's clear to me that the wicket will be completely erased from existence after they have "done their time". Anything else is just human philosophy, not scripture. Jesus even says that those who sinned knowingly will received a harsher punishment than those who did so out of ignorance. How is that possible if both are to be tormented for eternity. Make it make sense. It doesn't.

[@julianhouston.bondservanto1191]

Amen brother, you nailed it!

[@undergroundpublishing]

Conditional Immortality is a clever ruse based on unsciptural language. The Bible never says that the soul is "mortal" or "immortal." Chris Date is arguing with a Catholic tradition, based in Plato, and not with Scripture. Scripture teaches that those thrown into the lake of fire will experience "torment...forever and ever." Chris Date's constant conflation of lanaguage here shows no reverence to history, grammar, or apostolic tradition. The man is nothing more than an irreverant sophist and false teacher. At 14:00 - On the day = "when." God doesn't use "on that day," because he is not saying "that day," he is saying, "on the day you eat of it." He's not describing an eighth day, or a calendar day, but an undisclosed day that Adam eats of the fruit. Immortality and mortality have to do with the body, not the soul. The idea of an immortal soul comes from Plato's "Timaeus" and has no equivalent in Scripture. The soul is eternal, and eternally consicous by nature, as God is eternally conscious. The body sleeps, the soul does not. That's why we dream. It is literally our soul that makes us in God's likeness. It is our body that makes us in God's image. God has a soul that is eternally conscious, so do the angels, so do we. The only question is whether that eternall consicous soul can suffer torment or be entirely annihilated. Scripture clearly teaches that the souls of men and angels can suffer torment without the body (Luke 16:23, Rev 20:10). Chris uses the idea of an eternally resurrected body in which men suffer forever in hell, because this idea is not put forward in Scripture, but comes from Catholic tradition. Because the term "first resurrection" is used in Rev. 20, it is assumed that the wicked are raised in an eternal body, but this is neither said nor implied in the text. It merely says that the wicked, "stand before God" and that hades, "give up the dead." Nowhere does it imply that they received immortal bodies. We have multiple examples of the dead standing in heaven in disembodied form throughout the book of Revelation. We the saints are currently seated in heaven spiritually, but not bodily. Chris is merely creating a false dichotomoy so he can fool you into thinking that immortality and eternal conscious torments are opposites, and confuse the issue. This is not the issue. The issue is whether a soul can be annhihilated, which he attempts to prove by hyper-literalizing metaphoric language, while taking literal language and declaring it metaphoric. His entire line of argumentation is based on conflating "eternal conscious torment" with "life separated forever from God," when he knows his opponents view death as separation from God, and would never use the term "life separated from God" to describe the second death. At 30:30, he stands under Chalcedon for his description of what happened at the cross instead of Scripture In reality, Christ's eternal soul left his mortal body (lit. 'spirit-exited'). His mortal body went into the grave for three days, but God did not suffer it to see corruption, which would have occured on the fourth day. His soul went to Sheol, not as a legal captive to death, but as a victorious conqueror, with the keys to the prison. He preached the gospel to those in prison, and those that believed left Sheol with him. This is literally described in Mt. 27:53, and spiritually described in Eph. 4:8-10. He 'captured the captivity,' meaning that he took hold of what had been captive to death and the grave. On the third day, before his body would have decomposed, his spirit/soul reentered his body, and was there united with his body, never to die again. The "hypostatic union" at Christ's incarnation is a false doctrine made to make Mary "the Mother of God," when in fact, she was only the mother of Christ's mortal body. Unlike the rest of humanity, Christ's soul pre-existed his bodily generation, where our souls come into being in time, after our bodies are generated. At 33:30, he cites Tatian as the author of the "traditional view" of ECT, when in fact he was a Neo-Platonic heretic, who claimed Jesus was a created being, and went on to start a celibate cult called the Encratites. He is arguing against proto-orthodoxy, which is based in Greek philosphy, and not the Scriptures. He then skips to Augustine, another Neo-Platonist. Thus, he reduces the doctrine of 'everlasting torment,' to a "traditionalist view," rather than a view derived from Scripture alone. At 35:30, he appeals to "divine simplicity," which declares that the Father, Son, and Spirit all have the same attributes, which is false. They are all eternal and divine, but have distinct attributes, and a clear order of subordination. Christ is always subject to the Father, which he himself declares by the words, "the father is greater than me." The Spirit is the only one who will can be slandered or blasphemed unto unfogiveness, and only speaks either for the Father or the Son. The Father never looks upon sin, or enters in to the creation. Things that Jesus and the Holy Spirit either experience or witness, the Father "cannot look upon" and they "never enterered his mind." These distinctions are demonstrated both typologically and through express sayings throughout Scripture. The proto-Orthodox made God a Trinity after the model of the Neo-Platonist Jew Philo, and thus declared the three persons of the Godhead a single "being," which Scripture never declares ever. It only describes them as "one," as meaing 'unity of will and action,' in the same way God describes the men at Babel. At 44:00 Chris suggests that annhihilation is necessary for the righteous, and even God to experience eternal joy, because of the awareness of those in hell, but he fails to acknowledge the divine attribute of forgetting, as God chooses not to rememebr our sins. If the wicked who are tormented forever, (not actively, in a pit in God's throneroom, but passively in the outer darkness), then he makes God a liar, and suggest that he not only looks upon sin (as those in the Lake of fire are nothing but sin), but that he cannot forget sin, nor can we. No, in eternity, we will experience total free will, and should we venture to curiosity about the wages of sin, both Christ and the Angels will remind us of those in the outer darkness. But like God, we will be able to forget the sins of our past, and the sinners of our past. Finally, his usage of Irenaeus is just plain dishonest. (You can usually detect this thing when people have dozens of web-pages dedicated to a subject, but don't just quote and cite the source in any of them.) The passage is in "Against Heresies: Book II: Ch 4." and is clearly describing the everlasting existence of the soul. Chris takes passages out of context, in which Irenaeus, who clearly makes a distinction beteen an "enduring" soul, and "everlasting life," which he rightly describes as referencing bodily life, as if to mean that his reference to "continuence" is a reference to existance, and not to continued life in a body. If you go an read the passage for yourself, he clearly states that the soul continues to endure after death, which is the subject he is discussing. "When God therefore bestows life and perpetual duration, it comes to pass that even souls which did not previously exist should henceforth endure [for ever], since God has both willed that they should exist, and should continue in existence." ~ Irenaeus - A.H. Bk II:4 What you are witnessing the the complete devolution of the Platonic-Stocic-Pythagorean Christendumb from its mixture of Scripture and philosophy, to its realy authority, which is philosophy alone. Therefore, just as Plato and the Neoplatonist Arnobius invented conditional immortaltiy completely apart from Scripture, Chris Date completes the task of relying on the Neo-platonic Catholic tradition to entirely subjugate the Scripture to Plato. Chris Date, being a Calvinist, is subject to his true god, which is the Greek Monad, who itself is ruled by Fate. He has no choice but to bow to Plato, and to lie, because his God bows to Plato, and is a liar. This is not a worthwhile debate for Biblical Christians. Come out from her. The three loaves of meal are all leavened by the woman. You will never come to the knowledge of God through this tradition. It was never based upon the words of Christ. Come out of her my people.

[@AnHebrewChild]

Do you think God can destroy the soul?

[@undergroundpublishing]

So. just so we are clear, the punishment of Lucifier will be the least of all that he deceived, because he will be destroyed at the end of time, whereas one like Cain will have spent some 6000+ years in fiery torment, waiting for Satan to be cast into the lake of fire. Sounds fair.

[@tedfordhyde]

@underground, Cain hasn't been suffering the last 6,000 plus years in torments. He's been dead that long. Not conscious. Dead completely.

[@undergroundpublishing]

​@@tedfordhyde Well not technically. Because he probably tunred back into midiclorians and rejoined the force... I mean, if we're going to be just making things up, let's shoot for the moon. Who needs facts or evidence.

[@jamesforrestal403]

What "risen lost"? With what body do they come?

[@RussianBot4Christ]

Yes, the third type of body conundrum. Nowhere does the Bible say that the damned will recieve a new type if body, rather in 1 Corinthians 15 says there is only the body of earth, or the body of heaven.

[@IrishEddie317]

Here is the problem with this: when Chris says "What does the Word of God say" he opens a can of worms. The Universalists make the same claim, the hellists make the same claim, and there are thousands of differing viewpoints on many traditional doctrines which all claim their basis in the Bible. Therefore, we must have a single voice from God that defines the Bible once and for all. What therefore, would be that voice?

[@neveralone6770]

Edward Hara good point. When I think of all the doctrinal differences I just ask the Lord to help me keep the main thing the main thing. 1 Cor 13 covers that.

[@jaycliinuy4627]

Holy Spirit.

[@JasonJohnSwartz]

That voice is the Holy Spirit. However man tends to rely on human doctrines and traditions. Mostly do to human laziness. Tell me what to think so I don't have to.

[@WilliamTanksleyJr]

You're saying we need "a single voice ... that defines the Bible." But we have thousands of voices, many of them claiming to define the Bible once and for all; some of them claiming to be infallible about it (the Pope, the Watchtower, etc). So all you're doing is proposing a "solution" that moves the problem back to interpreting the cacophony of voices, leaving us with the same problem (and a bit worse). This is because your presumption that we need a voice misses the point. We need to take responsibility for what we believe by carefully considering what we read against what we're told.

[@IrishEddie317]

@@WilliamTanksleyJr Can't say that I disagree with you totally. My question still remains, where and who is that single voice?

[@cryptojihadi265]

As to Jesus actually dying, means God could be vulnerable to death or killable as he put it, Jesus said I lay down my life, NO ONE takes it form me! They absolutely could NOT have killed Jesus, if He wasn't willing to lay down His life.

[@EricBaxter-f2k]

Makes me think conditional immortality, must be true if people would rather stick to their 1689 London Baptist confession of faith/ and totally avoid debating you brother Chris 😢

[@Sirach144]

He gets the hell right but he doesn't realize that death doesn't seal out fate. God right now is only selecting the bride out from the world and will in the millennium bring the world of mankind back to God. That's what the millennium is for. The world will learn righteousness.

[@derp8575]

Certainly die a physical death.

[@eddiemorris17]

the problem thou lies for me is that,if i make it to heaven and my children get annihilated,how if im conscious of who i am and my past,will i ever find peace???? is that not hell for ever??

[@jaycliinuy4627]

It won't matter and be saddening to the point of us not praising and obeying God in heaven. Praising, obeying, working for God what we should do now and what we will do for eternity.

[@robertogarza8960]

God promises no more sorrow, I don’t know how exactly but he indeed said it. Revelation 21:4

[@ellasmith6554]

Someone had a testimony of going to heaven and said that you wont remember your past life.

[@osascamp1002]

Well hopefully God gives us the ability to create miracles to remake our family from the dust of the new earth?? I sooo hope that God is actually that awesome

[@FRN2013]

I'm sorry, Eddie. I think I can relate--my daughter died 7 years ago at age 23. The thing that helped me most was that I decided to love God more than I love her. Loving God and trusting him. "Though he kills me, yet will I trust him." -- Job I don't have any other answer except to say "He will wipe every tear from our eyes."

[@christopherfaustino8318]

Catholic,baptist,reform,pagans,and others.believe in immortal souls,everlasting hell torment..also triune gods.

[@FRN2013]

You're right on regarding young children not being saved, because the Word says you have to repent by faith to be saved. Perhaps people invented the 'age of accountability' stuff because they didn't want to think of kids suffering forever. If babies are saved, abortion is a wonderful thing. Send babies to Heaven! I think that's why some depressed parents kill their kids, because of the teaching that young kids are saved.

[@DarkMatter046]

I think that Mike Winger has made a rather good video that talks on this topic. He provides a strong case that God does allow them into heaven. The reason not to murder babies is that murder is a grievous sin that we should not partake in. One could show the extent of such flawed reasoning to say, why not murder all Christians because they are going to heaven?

[@JasonJohnSwartz]

Matthew 19:14 14 Jesus said, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs(A) to such as these.”(B) Case closed. Children go to heaven.

[@FRN2013]

Case closed? Hahaha

[@JasonJohnSwartz]

@@FRN2013 I'm sorry that your belief that unsaved children burn in hell forever is wrong. You'll get over it eventually.

[@FRN2013]

Too bad you are arguing with a comment you didnt read. No one will suffer in Hell forever.

[@wessmith736]

14:00 begins the scriptural backing 24:00 Revelation 32:00 left off 33:28

[@derp8575]

Appealing to tradition isn't a fallacy if it's truth.

[@GnaReffotsirk]

Sins when transferred are placed on a goat right?

[@imagomonkei]

The only flaws in your teaching is the Reformed theology and the Trinity. I hope you'll explore those with the same critical honesty that you have put into this.

[@jackyhenson3726]

Your name is seth ben abraham which means appointed son of abraham (abram which means many) this Hebrew home study is paying off

[@Charlie5225]

Heretic alert!!

[@imagomonkei]

JusHanginAroun mindless robot with no critical thinking skills alert!

[@dannymcmullan9375]

Nope those are correct biblical doctrines.

[@paulnavarro3822]

From the beginning, we are told what DEATH is. God was not ambiguous when He told Adam: Gen 3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, TILL THOU RETURN UNTO THE GROUND; for out of IT wast thou taken: for DUST THOU ART, and UNTO DUST SHALT THOU RETURN. Without doubt, when a Man DIES (which is when he is no longer capable of BREATHING, whether naturally or artificially, regardless of whatever caused THAT situation, either disease, violence, or age), God says, he is going to "return to dust". It should be quite evident that all Men who have died, have "returned to dust". According to God Himself, when a Man dies, there is nothing "immortal" about him which supposedly survives, for Man just "returns to dust". True, people throughout History have spoken about the "afterlife", the "immortal soul", the "realms of the dead", etc., but God Himself never spoke of such NOTIONS. According to Him, we, mortal Men, "return to dust", when we DIE. We are never told that at death, we will be "disembodied", and forever "live", in some Celestial Realm or in some Terrestrial Underground Realm. The Jews understood what God said in Genesis and they did not hold to a so called "immortal soul" concept. In fact, at one time they were steeped in that superstition, when they were in Egypt. The Egyptians held to the "immortal soul" concept, which for them necessitated the building of Pyramids and Storage of products for when the "disembodied spirit" would return and reunite with the bodies of the dead. God told the Children of Israel to "put away" such NONSENSE. Apparently, such NONSENSE still continues among Christians till Today, who believe in an "immortal soul", the so called "dearly departed" - which actually have not "gone" anywhere but to their Grave, on Earth. The Roman Church, cemented this Pagan notion of an "immortal soul", which supposedly does not die, after the person dies, but will "live on" forever, either in Heaven or in Hell, at Christ's Judgement. (they have other ideas which are just too complicated to even touch on here) However, the Early Jews, Jesus and the Apostles, Paul, did not hold to the Egyptian "immortal soul" Idea. They held to the Mosaic "Return to Dust" decree by Yahweh God. To die simply meant to "return to dust", to actually and really live no more. The Mosaic concept leaves no room for an "immortal soul" concept. Death is terminal, unless God intervenes. What the faith of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and Moses, and the Prophets, and Jesus and the Apostles, clearly taught, was, "The Literal RESURRECTION of the JUST, who had 'returned to dust', UNTO Kingdom Life on Earth." Jesus came and offered "everlasting life", which is RESURRECTION Life in the Earthly Kingdom to come. At THAT Time, the "dead in Christ", the "Saints", the "Just", from all Generations who had "returned to dust" and are in the Grave, will be GIVEN "immortality", when Christ returns, i.e., his Parousia. Dust will be brought together again and infused with Life, even "immortal life", which means that the Person RESURRECTED, will never again suffer "returning to dust", will "never perish", no "second death". John 10:28 And I give unto them ETERNAL LIFE; and they shall NEVER PERISH, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. John 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. John 10:30 I and my Father are one. John 11:23 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall RISE AGAIN. John 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he SHALL RISE AGAIN IN THE RESURRECTION IN THE LAST DAY. John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the RESURECTION, and the LIFE: he that believeth in me, though he were DEAD, yet SHALL HE LIVE: "Resurrection Life", "Immortality", "Everlasting Life", is the Promise which Jesus made to all who "believed on him". If Man already has "immortality" then Jesus would have been offering NOTHING. What he promises is IMMORTALITY, RESURRECTION from the dead, at THAT Day, when he RETURNS, when those who have "returned to dust", will be given immortality, as Paul so clearly affirms. 1Cor 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be CHANGED, 1Cor 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and THE DEAD shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 1Cor 15:53 For THIS CORRUPTIBLE must put on incorruption, and THIS MORTAL must put on immortality. 1Cor 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 1Cor 15:55 O DEATH, where is thy sting? O GRAVE, where is thy victory? 1Cor 15:56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. 1Cor 15:57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. The fact is that Jesus returns to Earth because the dead are not "in Heaven" but "in the Grave"; the dead have "returned to dust" so Jesus returns to CALL THEM OUT from among the other dead. Paul does not say, "Jesus will return and bring with him the 'immortal disembodied souls' of the Saints." He specifically says that, "the dead", i.e., those who have "returned to dust", will be "raised incorruptible"; he says that "THIS CORRUPTIBLE" must put on "INCORRUPTION". The believer goes from being a dead person, in the Grave, to being an immortal being, outside of the Grave. Not until that INSTANT is any Man considered to be an "immortal soul", according to Scripture. What happens to the others, who remain "in the dust", at THAT Time, when Christ Returns? According to Scriptures, they will be RESURRECTED unto MORTALITY, sometime towards the end of the Millennial Reign of Christ, and will be held in Prison (for years probably, where they will "grind and gnash" their teeth) until they are Legally Judged by Christ (he will have his thousands of underjudges) and determined to be "not found written in the book of life". They will suffer the "Second Death", i.e., they will "return to dust", "perish forever", have "no life", after they are thrown into the Lake of Fire, which is ON Earth - like Gehenna was in the first Century - and return to dust (ashes). They will no longer be, because they will have DIED again, and permanently DESTROYED. Nothing, which is contrary to the will of God, will ever again exist, in all of God's UNIVERSE. Maranatha!

[@ThemCoversMB]

I just find it so deranged that you don't ask to be born but, because you were born u desvered to be tortured endlessly. Like that hurts followers of christ everywhere believes that and it doesn't make the faith attractive.

[@dakotad.8609]

First of all of course you cant ask to be born because you would have to exist in the first place to ask to be born and exist so logically the only solution is for someone else to bring you into existence. Next, we do not deserve punishment because we were born, but because we willingly choose to sin and do evil stuff. Despite this, God gave everyone the way to avoid hell through Jesus, and all we have to do is trust in him for salvation. Imagine a kid steals something and as a result the parents punish that kid for his action and then the kid complains that he did not ask to be born therefore it is not fair that he is being punished for what he is doing. That would be ridiculous, and no one thinks like this. We are responsible for our actions, period. All humans do terrible things worthy of death and punishment, but even despite that we have been given a way to avoid that, because the penalty was already paid by Jesus. The stupid thing would be to not accept this free gift of eternal life by trusting in Jesus. Whether you believe it is true is another matter.

[@nigelspostbag]

John 5:28-29 NKJV -  Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth-those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. Is souls are not immortal how can the unsaved dead be resurrected at all?

[@raskolnikov6443]

Because their soul hasn’t been destroyed yet.

[@nigelspostbag]

@@raskolnikov6443 The word destroy or perish doesn't mean cease to exist. See: Destroy, Destroyer, Destruction, Destructive - Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words Destroy, Destroyer, Destruction, Destructive [ A-1,Verb,G622, apollumi ] a strengthened form of ollumi, signifies to destroy utterly;" in Middle Voice, "to perish." The idea is not extinction but ruin, loss, not of being, but of well-being. The second death judgment is an eternal torment, that is because the fire of Gehenna is the very same destination that the Devil, the beast and the false prophet are cast into. How can you explain the devil, the beast and the false prophet being torment in the same fire that the dead are cast into, yet the dead (dead what) are not torment for Eternity. The word of God does not tell us.

[@walterhelm8186]

Why not? God knows our precise DNA blueprint and the exact way our brains are wired. If God shapes matter in exactly this way, producing our same DNA blueprint and wiring the brain in the same way, all our memory and thoughts will come back, and we will, in fact, be bodily resurrected. God doesn't need preexisting matter or a preexisting soul to resurrect us.

[@tammyproffitt7124]

the wages of sin is concous eternal torment not death....read the scriptures and rightly devide his word...God is just not worse then Hitler

[@jaycliinuy4627]

PianoAmante Way to (I'm GUESSING, you are wrong in your conclusion because your logic starts out so. If you're wrong about that you might be wrong about the length of "time" in hell, or whatever you want to call it.) Judge someone. I'd tell ya to go see the devil but you will only burn for a bit. 🙄

[@bufficliff8978]

This guy is annoyingly manipulative in covert ways.

[@AnHebrewChild]

I'm new to this topic. Mind describing how you think this guy is manipulative? Genuinely curious as I just want to know the truth on these matters. Thank you

[@PeterProf7777]

No such thing as conditional immortality. Your soul is eternal. It transcends time which is a property of physical reality. Time is just an illusion that has value in physical reality which is also not real. ,If something decays and dies, then it is not real. Physical reality is an illusion. Either you exist or don't exist.

[@walterhelm8186]

If your soul is immortal, then you have immortality within yourself and apart from Christ. This is really no different from claiming you have righteousness within yourself and apart from Christ. Both deny Sola gratia and Solus Christus.

[@PeterProf7777]

@@walterhelm8186 Christ is LOVE. It is a power. Some call it Christ Consciousness. Christ is universal and timeless. It is in everyone. In other words, each person has the POTENTIAL to be like Jesus. The Christ Power which is love is in everyone. In some it is very faint. In others it is brighter. Jesus became the Christ because he was unconditional love. He overcame sin. He learned obedience from his suffering. He made it to the finish line! He earned that title. Think about it. Man has been alive on earth for thousands and thousands of years so it can't be about Jesus. He just wasn't around physically and when he did live it was for a short time in a very small area on earth. In those days, there was no communication on a global scale. Up until 300 years ago, most people didn't have access to a Bible and if they did, they couldn't read it. In Europe only 18% of people could read in 1700. Also, there are hundreds of languages and thousands of dialects. Up until 1800, the Bible on a global scale was basically useless. People died before 1800. Then what happned to them? Do you see what I am saying? You are not seeing THE BIG PICTURE. For God does not will for any man to perish. So for that reason, Christianity cannot be true and the Bible is a poor way to communicate to the world. Also, there are translation problems but that is another story. Only love counts and love has been taught for eons. Jesus' two great commandments is all you need to know. He even said that. Read the commandments. If you don't focus on being unconditional love, then you are denying and turning your back on Jesus. Let me ask you this question: If YOU lived 4000 years ago in North America, what then happened to you when you died?

[@diegobarragan4904]

Heresy

[@JasonJohnSwartz]

Brain washed, cognitive dissonance and laziness on your part.

[@diegobarragan4904]

@@JasonJohnSwartz this is literal heresy condemned by the 6th ecumenical council not my opinion.

[@JasonJohnSwartz]

@@diegobarragan4904 I'd love for you to cite or link where the 6th ecumenical council specifically states that conditional immortality or annihilationism is heresy. Thank you in advance

[@diegobarragan4904]

@@JasonJohnSwartz all of the Saints taught the immortality of the soul. By grace not by nature. This is the consensus of the Holy Fathers from the beginning. There’s no such things as conditional immortality in the Church. The fifth ecumenical council condemned Origen’s universalism and the teaching of temporary punishment. “If anyone says or thinks that the punishment of demons and of impious men is only temporary, and WILL ONE DAY COME TO AN END, and that a restoration (ἀποκατάστασις) will take place of demons and of impious men, let him be anathema” And don’t try to twist it and say it’s not talking about the destruction of the soul, in the context of the councils is the belief of the immortality of the soul. To prove this, all you need to do is look at the 6th ecumenical council, the synodal letter of Saint Sophronius gives a clear teaching about the immortality of the soul and the everlasting punishment for the wicked. This letter was accepted by the council as the universal teaching of the Church. kzbin.info/www/bejne/aYHbioqwjr5pnpI So two ecumenical councils and all the Saints testify that this video man here is pushing a soul-destroying heresy.

[@JasonJohnSwartz]

@@diegobarragan4904 The scripture is the authority. Not doctrine from man. Doctrines are fine as long as they don't go against scripture. Matthew 10:28 “And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.”

[@mr.e1220]

Hypostatic union? Another unbiblical doctrine. Jesus is a man. Father alone is God.

[@Charlie5225]

Heretic alert!!

[@mr.e1220]

@@Charlie5225 I know you are but what am i?

[@mr.e1220]

@@Charles.Wright That was 2 years ago I don't argue this stuff with people anymore.

[@LennyCash777]

The Father calls Jesus God in Hebrews 1:8. And Jesus being God is found all throughout the rest of Scripture.