Christian Universalism in the Catacombs of Priscilla

[@glennrobinson7193]

In 2019, immediately upon awakening out of deep sleep in the morning, these words were clearly and strongly in my mind: "Goats shall be turned into sheep". This really puzzled me because I didn't understand or believe Colossians 1:20, 1Tim2:4, 4:10 then, and the only thing I errantly understood then was that goats would be massacred in "everlasting punishment" Matt25:46. "Goats turning into sheep" nearly did my head in, but I knew without a doubt that this was the Spirit whispering this truth to me in my unconscious mind just as I awoke. So this picture of Jesus with a goat is a beautiful enlargement of my understanding of those words I heard that blessed morning.

[@justin8865]

Was getting worried missed ya! Be blessed

[@danielniros]

Just subbed to your channel, amazing content!

[@TheDriveByPreacher]

I’m so excited, about God helping and loving every single creature He has made, it just makes more sense that God who is love is like this, and nothing could ever be too big for God to help them and have His will, He cares about the happiness and well-being of everyone He has made, nothing present will get in the way of the future.

[@deeveevideos]

1 Timothy 4:10 - The New International Version (NIV) 10 That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.

[@natalietindale7394]

Not only that, but the Greek word translated into goat is eraphos which specifically means Kid, or young goat. So Matthew 25 might be about separating the young and old ? But that wouldn't fit as the young ones are sent to the refining fires whereas the mature inherit earth ? In this case it does appear to mean sheep abd goat ? Any insight ? It behooves us not to pick and choose translations that suit our belief system

[@benindahl9233]

Thanks brother! Always great insight on the great love story that is our Triune God! Love your channel and you have a very soothing voice as well! God bless, and more please 🙏

[@stephengorman1025]

So good to have your insight and excellent instruction back. God bless you, Grace and Peace.

[@thisgeneration2894]

he's back

[@Tomekwinxs]

Welcome back!

[@colel.1560]

Glad you’re back! Anyone in the Dallas Texas area? I would love to collaborate on a commentary of Roman’s. Particularly 9-11

[@juicedgoose]

This is mentioned in Hansen's universalism book I think

[@thetotalvictoryofchrist9838]

Maybe that's where I first picked that up. I've been aware of this depiction for a long time but didn't know how to address it.

[@jueneturner8331]

In Matt 25 the sheep and the goats were part of the flock. This certainly lends itself to the idea that part of the flock will have to endure punishment for a time. According to Paul (1 Corinthians 3), we all will have to go through the fire to test our works.

[@a-sheepof-christ9027]

Matthew 25 and 1 Corinthians 3 are seperate Judgements in 1 Corinthians 15:22-28. The bible distinguishes between "Christ the firstfruits" and "those who are Christs at his coming". Matthew 25 says "When the son of man comes in his glory..." Clearly, that is not describing the believers in rapture, but his 2nd coming after rapture. The Sheep and the Goats of Matthew 25 are clearly not believers but unbelieving "nations".

[@jueneturner8331]

@a-sheepof-christ9027 Clearly? In a flock that the people hearing our Lord say those words, there could be a mixture of goats and sheep together. Also, this is the last in a series of parables about His Return. The faithless head-servant was still a head servant over the household of the Lord. Judgement begins in the House of God.

[@a-sheepof-christ9027]

​@@jueneturner8331 The faithless headservant is just that: faithless. Hes not part of the rapture in 1 thessalonians 4:15-17 and therefor also not present in 1 corinthians 3. Nobody in the flock of Christ has to go through any enduring punishment at all. The fire in 1 corinthians 3 only touches the works: never the believer. It is never stated that the Christians or saved Jews of 1 corinthians 15:22 suffer in judgement. You need to rightly Divide scripture.

[@jueneturner8331]

@@a-sheepof-christ9027 and where is your source that makes YOU correct. I have studied that Scripture and you cannot take it by itself. Since you know everything, maybe you can explain something (and I am seriously asking for info from your understanding): Scripture tells us that the Lord will bring with Him souls of those gone before, but the renewed Spiritual bodies will come rise from the graves (and even the sea will give up its Dead)! Will the souls and bodies then join together so we have a Resurrection body like our Lord's?

[@robertgill7061]

Love your channel

[@vince.sarigumba]

how are you my brother? How are you? Its been a long time since we have never been discuss this, many of christians and pastors they believe in eternity hell fire or endless torment in hell fire and eternal damnation or eternal hell fire many believe in this idea . What can you say about this idea that hell fire is eternal or eternity hell fire?

[@AnibalReyna-io1hr]

About time

[@GoWithJesus]

It's actually "probata" in the textus receptus, which literally is "sheep".

[@thetotalvictoryofchrist9838]

That's just the plural of the same word, it means small herd animal. In Luke 15:6, same story, you have the singular πρόβατόν. Luke actually gives us the imagery of putting the animal on his shoulders like we see in the depiction.

[@tzaphkielmelekiyah1518]

Just looking up a word doesn’t give the general use of the word through context, this requires research of contemporary understanding of the Word for its original audience, that’s what he’s shown you here, we don’t want to let doctrine based anachronisms be our only informant as to what synonyms an audience would have understood a word to be referencing

[@warriorshedge6772]

@@tzaphkielmelekiyah1518 english?

[@sharingforimprovement155]

I hear this and rejoice Then I hear infernalists and hurt

[@markj2305]

there are different words for sheep and goat (eriphos) in Matt 25:32, is there a video explaining this? thanks :)

[@djokampungtz2108]

Im a little puzzled. Does Christ save christians from the 1st or 2nd death? If 1st, why do christians still die? (Or else what actually is the 1st death? That Christ went through that we wont go through?) And if 2nd, how is it that Christ did not endure fire and brimstone? Or if He did, how? What is the 2nd death that Christ went through that we wont go through, that the unbelievers will do through? These are logical follow ups from people I share the gospel to and im not sure how to respond. Thank you in advance!

[@ironghost-ug2si]

He has a video on this same channel on the 2nd death.

[@parkerpruett4579]

I had the same question in my mind at one time. I think that for the believer, we pass straight from this life to the arms of Christ in Heaven, thanks to what He accomplished on the cross. No longer do we have to “wait” in a defeated Hades or “underworld” because that’s precisely what Jesus conquered. Now as for the non believer, the fornicator, the wicked and the false prophet, etc.. they’re going to have to endure the second death which is the lake of fire. Until that is complete and they bow the knee and confess Jesus, they’re stuck in that state. I hope this helps you. This is how I understand it to be

[@Mike_saved]

The king James version bible seems to teach that Jesus did certainly go to hell. If he is God, he is beyond time, which is how he could be with the thief on the cross the day that he was crucified, even though he was also possibly in hell. I think it does make sense with all the burnt offerings in the OT. Even so, I myself am not completely sure, and my belief has changed on the topic over time

[@MissionaryUniversalist]

Awesome

[@Mellotronaic]

A tv show long ago I thought suggested that the earliest catacomb art used more “generic” imagery to not draw attention and persecution. I think a peacock was used as a Christian symbol as well. It is interesting that it is a goat, but I’m not such how much stress can be laid on the imagery without knowing that was just a kind of typical Roman motif copied from elsewhere.

[@thetotalvictoryofchrist9838]

The imagery of carrying the lost animal on his shoulders comes right out of Luke's Gospel, same story as Matthew but adds the detail, "And when he finds it, he joyfully puts it on his shoulders and goes home". That's from Luke 15:3-7 NIV. So there really is no doubt this icon is depicting that story. They likely were not trying to make a major theological statement by choosing a kid instead of a lamb. Any herdsman would likely recognize that as goat behavior, particularly a young undisciplined goat.

[@Aftershock888]

Wikipedia is kinda a meh source. Could you show the source that Wikipedia got their info from? Thank you for making these videos :D

[@thetotalvictoryofchrist9838]

That image is available from dozens of sources, the problem I face is when someone takes a photo of something like that they often claim a copyright on that photo. Hence I seek a Creative Commons or Public domain source, and wikipedia provides that. Sources not cited are flagged for the moderator.

[@yqafree]

Very well!

[@thanevakarian9762]

What are your thoughts on the idea that because God is infinite/unending our sins against him cause an infinite/unending offense therefore the punishment needs to be infinite/unending?

[@thetotalvictoryofchrist9838]

Using that same logic the bible also says that God's love and mercy are unending. However, the bible does not say God's wrath in unending. Lamentations 3:31-33

[@nathanmatecki3987]

My understanding is that this is an idea first proposed by Anselm around 1100. I highly recommend listening to Warren McGrew's series with Paul Vendredi on penal substitutuonary atonement (& its many flaws...). His channel's name is Idol Killer.

[@tomm6167]

"I will not contend forever, nor will I always be angry; for 'the spirit would grow faint before me, and the breath of life that I made'." (Isaiah 57:16)

[@Inverted.surfer]

Welcome🙂

[@Nunya_Bidness_53]

They simply depicted Jesus as a typical man of the Roman era. Just like Renaissance painters pictured him as a man of their era, tall and white with long hair.

[@lovejoypeace5972]

Interesting.

[@christianuniversalist]

'The Ballad of the Judas Tree' In Hell there grew a Judas Tree, Where Judas hanged and died; Because he could not bear to see His master crucified. Our Lord descended into Hell And found his Judas there, Forever hanging on the tree Grown from his own despair. So Jesus cut his Judas down And took him in his arms. "It was for this I came," he said, "And not to do you harm. My Father gave me twelve good men And all of them I kept, Though one betrayed and one denied Some fled and others slept. In three days' time I must return To make the others glad, But first I had to come to Hell And share the death you had. My tree will grow in place of yours, Its roots lie here as well: There is no final victory Without this soul from Hell." So when we all condemn him As of every traitor worst-- Remember that of all his men, Our Lord forgave him first.

[@Alexeimakarov248]

The total victory of Christ can I ask a question should the apocalypse of Peter be canon in the bible since the apocalypse of Peter teaches universalism too?

[@alexanderthegoat]

Isn't the apocalypse of peter both pseudopigrapha and docetic?

[@thetotalvictoryofchrist9838]

It's historically useful as it gives us the views of at least one early Christian. However, my impression of it is that we are reading the views of a Gentile believer whose understanding of those biblical metaphors is largely informed by Greek mythology, the river of fire and the wheel of fire, etc. That they are ultimately rescued out of that fate isn't surprising since universal restoration was the understanding of these early Christians. So it does confirm that, which is useful.