Refined in the Lake of Fire II | THE EVIDENCE PART 3

[@invertedreality4473]

There's not many of us Christian universalists. Thank you for speaking the truth. I love the plain language manner in which you present this material. L. Ray Smith, rest in peace) is much more technical, but is another great source of truth. Remember that satan deceives the whole world (Rev 12:9). The doctrine of eternal torment is a large part of that deception.

[@charleshines5700]

It is good to hear the truth rather than go through life with those doubts of what the Bible actually meant. The only true version is the original and all of the others are just translations. I highly recommend using that download button there to grab copies of this while we still can. You never know when some horrible new law would cause this to get taken down and it would be good to have so that if it happens the truth can still be revealed. I know we are the victims of mistranslations that make God out to be some sort of villain but he is good. Then some parts of it are deliberately changed which is also not good. A true victory of Christ is all of these terrible lies and misteachings being corrected.

[@jasonegeland1446]

I wish I had said this prior, but you are the most thorough of any I've ever seen on providing Biblical evidence on any one given piece of Scripture.

[@TheAppointedTime7]

Thanks again Michael, Great work for Christ, and this truth Universal Reconciliation

[@stevenhorne]

I really appreciate what you are doing.

[@davidl8094]

Good work

[@kieranswift9427]

you have made it very clear, my friend and pastor Rodney Beulieu has been teaching the salvation of all for some time now, and people are getting the message ,so thankyou for elaborating on these passages.

[@kasperpetersen9204]

Rodney is my favorit YT pastor /teacher.

[@bernardignacio1055]

Me too…

[@robertlafontaine805]

I really appreciate your videos. Thank you very much.

[@CNich90]

Awesome work! This channel is a diamond in the rough

[@lovereigns4017]

Again. Truth after truth. I'm wide awake, Michael. Thank you. Love Reigns indeed.

[@janosterud4188]

Excellent info. Thank You 😊

[@BrotherPaulVickers]

Amen, brother!

[@philgriggs8822]

What a blessing! I have fundamentalist friends taking the Lake of Fire and condemning us! Their viewpoint of an angry unloving God is so toxic.

[@benparker1822]

Doesn't Revelation also have a verse that talks about people's works being judged, and some being saved 'as if by fire'?

[@thetotalvictoryofchrist9838]

"Saved but as through fire" Paul said that 1 Corinthians 3:15

[@Fearl3ss234]

This is fascinating! However, there was also brimstone in the fires of Sodom, very literally and real flames. Why was the brimstone/ sulfur there? Doesn't that take away from the cleaning aspect??

[@cambrianxrplosion3417]

Wish you knew how much your videos mean to me.

[@Werner878]

So let me get this straight. The idea of burning in a lake of fire is not true? Is this because of translation mistakes that it says that way in the Bible? What are your thoughts after watching this series? We do not have to burn for eternity?

[@zachariah7114]

God DOES NOT burn His children. That would be Ba'al. The thought "could not even enter His mind" (Jeremiah 19:15) “For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord” (Isaiah 55:8).

[@benparker1822]

People say that God can't abide sin. But, I've long contended it goes the other way. Sin can't abide God. It can't survive in his presence. It is destroyed. And the verses provided back that up for me. So, people read Genesis and they look at Adam's confession to God as a childish passing the blame. That doesn't work in God's presence. Being around God would compel the truth out of you. Adam had to confess that Eve had given him the fruit. Why would he have to confess that? I don't remember which New Testament verse it is, but it says Adam was not fooled. He ate because he was going to suffer punishment WITH Eve. He probably planned to take the blame himself. But, in God's presence, he couldn't lie. All because sin has no place near God.

[@broderickwallis25]

Interesting observation... Certainly the part about sin being abolished before the presence of God At Christ return there's going to be a lot of red faces.... not to mention a lot of red butts💥💥💥 LOL

[@colel.1560]

It’s funny that even today we call it the “dark ages”… should we not, according to contemporary logic, instead call it the “dark eternity”? If God is truly the way modern folk think he is according to dark age tradition then he will take pleasure in leaving us in the dark - but he isn’t like that. I hope this catches on and people start seeing how great our God really is!

[@broderickwallis25]

Hey there... Look im sure at some point this work was a chore but at this point it must be a joy for you... None the less you havent hidden it under a bushell. I have to say thankyou for sharing the results of your intrepid journey. And yes there are others pioneering truth in this age of deception, but you definitely take your place honourably within this "little flock"

[@thetotalvictoryofchrist9838]

It is a joy for me. It's a lot of work, and there's still a lot of work to do, but worth every minute.

[@bradhenry7317]

@@thetotalvictoryofchrist9838 thank you brother!

[@chadpugh443]

​@@thetotalvictoryofchrist9838so EVERYONE goes to heaven in the end? Then y did jesus come and warn us of hell if we get out eventually anyways?

[@thetotalvictoryofchrist9838]

@@chadpugh443 Is an age of punishment not something God should warn us about? Sounds very serious to me.

[@Kristy_not_Kristine]

I think you may find this saying EXACTLY what you're saying. There's more, but this is the relevant portion to what your message appears to be. 1 I am Alpha and Omega, Christ the Lord; yea, even I am he, the beginning and the end, the Redeemer of the world. 2 I, having accomplished and finished the will of him whose I am, even the Father, concerning me-having done this that I might subdue all things unto myself- 3 Retaining all power, even to the destroying of Satan and his works at the end of the world, and the last great day of judgment, which I shall pass upon the inhabitants thereof, judging every man according to his works and the deeds which he hath done. 4 And surely every man must repent or suffer, for I, God, am endless. 5 Wherefore, I revoke not the judgments which I shall pass, but woes shall go forth, weeping, wailing and gnashing of teeth, yea, to those who are found on my left hand. 6 Nevertheless, it is not written that there shall be no end to this torment, but it is written endless torment. 7 Again, it is written eternal damnation; wherefore it is more express than other scriptures, that it might work upon the hearts of the children of men, altogether for my name’s glory. 8 Wherefore, I will explain unto you this mystery, for it is meet unto you to know even as mine apostles. 9 I speak unto you that are chosen in this thing, even as one, that you may enter into my rest. 10 For, behold, the mystery of godliness, how great is it! For, behold, I am endless, and the punishment which is given from my hand is endless punishment, for Endless is my name. Wherefore- 11 Eternal punishment is God’s punishment. 12 Endless punishment is God’s punishment. 13 Wherefore, I command you to repent, and keep the commandments which you have received by the hand of my servant Joseph Smith, Jun., in my name; 14 And it is by my almighty power that you have received them; 15 Therefore I command you to repent-repent, lest I smite you by the rod of my mouth, and by my wrath, and by my anger, and your sufferings be sore-how sore you know not, how exquisite you know not, yea, how hard to bear you know not. 16 For behold, I, God, have suffered these things for all, that they might not suffer if they would repent; 17 But if they would not repent they must suffer even as I; 18 Which suffering caused myself, even God, the greatest of all, to tremble because of pain, and to bleed at every pore, and to suffer both body and spirit-and would that I might not drink the bitter cup, and shrink- 19 Nevertheless, glory be to the Father, and I partook and finished my preparations unto the children of men. Read the Books, but know that the church under Brigham Young, after killing Joseph, Hyrum, and Samuel Smith, departed from what Joseph had restored and taught and are in apostasy. Polygamy was never taught by Joseph. He preached against it as a gross sin, an abomination, adultery, wickedness, and he excommunicated those he learned were involved and would not repent. The truth is coming out with the help of the internet and being able to read primary sources and see the alterations, changes, additions, and deletions to Joseph's writings by Brigham and his cronies. Brigham led the church to hell, just as Joseph warned.

[@WilliamKing-p1k]

the world is wating for at least 1 religious prophecy to come true, the last or final religion weve had was Sikhism hundreds of years ago. interestingly enough sikhism talked about marriage between god and humanity even if Christianity did it first

[@broderickwallis25]

Hi there. All other religions contain elements of truth, but they don't have Christ the authenticator.... 👍 Nice little bit of religious history though... All the best to your and your family.

[@emilykelly7453]

@@broderickwallis25YES! Satan has given men all kinds of knowledge, but left out the most important part; Jesus Christ as the only way back to reconciliation with God.

[@thisgeneration2894]

Actually the verse considered the critic Origen was answering ‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭66:15‭-‬17‬ ‭ESV‬‬ [15] “For behold, the Lord will come in fire, and his chariots like the whirlwind, to render his anger in fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire. [16] For by fire will the Lord enter into judgment, and by his sword, with all flesh; and those slain by the Lord shall be many. [17] “Those who sanctify and purify themselves to go into the gardens, following one in the midst, eating pig’s flesh and the abomination and mice, shall come to an end together, declares the Lord.

[@thetotalvictoryofchrist9838]

Celsus was using the Greek word básanos in his criticism which doesn't appear in Isaiah, but does appear in Revelation. Also, Isaiah, is an OT prophecy of earthly judgment, specifically on Israel. Not something Christians of that day were focused on, since that was a past event.

[@thisgeneration2894]

@thetotalvictoryofchrist9838 gotcha thanks man, I'm blessed you are out here, showing the work...

[@nowayseriously]

Have you addressed the book of enoch in any of your videos? Was included in some bibles and has hell material.

[@thetotalvictoryofchrist9838]

I have used an example from Enoch that demonstrates aionios denotes limited duration. But Enoch is really just an allegorical interpretation of scripture not scripture itself, moral themes used for both teaching and entertainment. It's useful but not authoritative. Much like C. S. Lewis draws on biblical and allegorical themes in The Chronicles of Narnia to teach moral lessons etc., which gives us hints as to his understanding.

[@nowayseriously]

ty@@thetotalvictoryofchrist9838

[@mochamarie9741]

So, what happens to all the giants of rhe Nephelium? More. All thise evil entities that died in the Flood or Sodom or Gomorrah?

[@jackshadow325]

David Bentley Hart seems to believe that 1 Corinthians 3.12-15 refers to all humanity. But I think it refers only to the Church. In relation to this video, and the idea of being refined by fire, I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on 1 Cor. 3.12-15. Do you agree with DBH, and would you equate that passage with the crucible of fire seen in Revelation?

[@west221b]

That verse is explicitly discussed in this video. Given how that chapter starts (Christians being unlike Christians), how are you dividing between "the church" and "not the church"? Isn't that whole idea contrary to every teaching the the NT that eliminates every "in group/out group"? Every time a line is drawn to separate people, Jesus, Paul, someone is quick to refute the idea (even including Genesis' "male and female"). Also see later in the letter, ch 15 verse 22.

[@jackshadow325]

@@west221b I was asking the creator of the video a question. I don’t know what you’re blabbering on about.

[@seapapa4668]

What is your image of God "disciplining" people? What restores and heals people? Pain? Or love? Is that how you were born again? Or are there two ways of salvation?

[@rg442]

Good question! God's chastisement is love. Heb 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. In fact, it's part of His saving grace: Tit 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Tit 2:12 TEACHING us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; The word "teaching" is the same word translated into "chasteneth" in Heb 12:6. Hope this helps!

[@Kuudere-Kun]

The greater point is that the Baptism of The Holy Spirit is connected to this Refining Fire metaphor from it's introduction. Matthew 11:10 and Mark 1:2 quote Malachi 1:1 identifying the Messenger with John The Baptist. Matthew 3:10-12 and Luke 3:16-17 is acknowledge is the marginal notes of the a Bible I own as drawing on Malachi 3:2-3. I believe the LXX translation of Malachi 2 was in error by not using Baptizer for the word the KJV translates Fuller. Isaiah 30:33 saying the Breath of God is like a stream of Brimstone, Deuteronomy 4:24, 9:3 and Hebrews 12:29 say God is a Consuming Fire. These passages clearly mire Fire and Brimstone symbolically synymous with Fire and the Holy Ghost.

[@bradhenry7317]

Hey brother!!! What are your thoughts on psychedelic mushrooms as a believer in Christ? Wrestling with that one atm! God bless you my friend. Thank you so much!

[@thetotalvictoryofchrist9838]

A mind altering hallucinogenic drug? The tool of a Shaman used to reach into the spiritual world? SEE Gal. 5:20 that would be φαρμακεία (pharmakeia). We must abstain as Christians from such practices.

[@emilykelly7453]

Do NOT use drugs at all my friend. They are the devils tools to fool you. I know from personal experience. Sorcery in the Bible is the word we get pharmaceuticals from. Mystery Babylon(America) will be judged partly for her part in fooling the nations with pharmaceutical drugs. They numb your connection with the spirit which is warning people with anxiety and depression, for example. It’s a trick to get you to keep living in sin instead of fixing it with Jesus.

[@west221b]

If you think it's not right, then for you it isn't (cf. Ro 14 IIRC). Otherwise, what does the former (psychotropic mushrooms) have to do with "a believer in Christ"? (and I guess I have to ask what do you mean by "a believer in Christ" since there are so many variations). The wisdom here (and that's what the Bible teaches and admonishes everyone to pursue: wisdom--as opposed to rule-following/hall-monitoring): What is the motivation? What's the purpose, need, or goal? Is this a good way to meet that need or want? Is this a healthy need or want? Is this a good idea objectively and/or relative to who I want to be or do? Note that these questions can be asked about pretty much everything, so not singling anything/anyone out.

[@emilykelly7453]

@@west221b this isn’t even remotely right. In fact it is 100% against what scripture teaches and one of the worst sins there are… It. Is. Sorcery. Look up the word used for sorcery. Stay away from it.

[@mikeybee5975]

I have seen in multiple of your videos that universalism was the predominant doctrine in the first 600 years of Christianity… how can I verify this?

[@tomm6167]

In its "Scholar's Corner" section, the tentmaker site has a free online book called "Universalism in the First 500 Years of the Christian Church." Tentmaker also has a free online book called "Christ Triumphant." (See chapters 4-5.) (Both books were written in the 1890's, so they're not for everybody.)

[@Slacksalotprime]

I like your version of God. I can’t however believe, in any of it. The same God that drown millions in a flood, told soldiers they could keep trophies of the little girls of their enemies, and sent bears to maul children who teased a bald man…could definitely burn trillions of people without batting an eye

[@zachariah7114]

The same flood in which he promised to save all of humanity? Establishing the rainbow as a symbol of his promise to mankind? That flood? The flood is symbolic, by the way... representing the Holy Spirit being poured out upon all of Humanity.

[@emilykelly7453]

Idk if you have a video on this or not, and it seems to be my most problematic verse, but doesn’t Revelation talk about taking the right of eating from the tree of life? It seems to me that people are not self sustaining immortal even in heaven but have to eat of the tree of life to continue on living. Ie we will always have a choice to keep living with God even in heaven/new earth. Now, if someone’s right to eat of the tree of life is taken away, it would mean they die…

[@thetotalvictoryofchrist9838]

There's so much symbolism in that book, making doctrines from it must be grounded in portions of scripture that are stated clearly. The warning of taking away the tree of life is for "everyone who *hears* the words of the prophecy of this scroll" and adds or takes away from those words. In that time there weren't a lot of copies of these books, people still leaned on oral tradition. So it's a kind of hyperbolic warning to those memorizing this book, don't get it wrong! Even at that they weren't necessarily expected to memorize things verbatim in oral tradition, simply don't change the meaning of the story. Today there are millions of copies, and most people are literate, so the warning is kind of moot. Even Tyndale making a translation mistake wouldn't incur God's curse, it was a mistake, and every translation is a compromise to some extent. There would have to be intentionality involved.

[@emilykelly7453]

@@thetotalvictoryofchrist9838 thank you so much for your work and for staying active with the channel. I truly pray that you are correct. The idea that Christ will essentially put everything back together perfectly, without literally destroying or killing everything, and then hand it back to the Father, is such a beautiful picture.

[@chadpugh443]

So is Bill Weiss a liar? Is that what your implying

[@thetotalvictoryofchrist9838]

No, maybe he really believes it. Maybe he just wants to sell books, I don't know. But no subjective experience outweighs scripture. Otherwise anyone can nullify scripture because they had a dream, vision, or NDE, etc.

[@chadpugh443]

@@thetotalvictoryofchrist9838 so do u truly believe we are ALL saved in the end? Am I understanding correctly?

[@emilykelly7453]

@@chadpugh443yes, inevitably. Bill Weiss doesn’t refute any of this that I’ve seen. He went to hell. Hell exists. People do not stay in hell if they accept Christ.

[@zachariah7114]

@@emilykelly7453 can we stop using this word "Hell" for the place you refer to, it does not come from God but paganism.

[@childofgodministries96]

What will happen to satan if the lake of fire isnt forever?

[@emilykelly7453]

He himself will be refined, destroying all the evil, sin, and faulty character flaws, being renewed into the perfect version of what he should have been. It will certainly take him the longest to be purified and then Christ will hand everything over to the Father to begin the eternal age, exactly as it should have been in the beginning; completely restored through and by Jesus.

[@Kuudere-Kun]

I don't think you understand the connotative implication of using Crucible in this verse, this passage was used by infernalist before Tyndale so no the work isn't the problem. The first thing I think of when I hear the word Crucible isn't metal refining techniques it's that play about the Salem Witch trials and thus the connation of the word to me are the same as using Torment for Basanos. If Crucible had always been the translation modern English was using I guarantee you it would not have hindered the infernalists the Aionos issue is what actually matters as far as proving Universal Salvation does. I don't believe the Fourth Gospel and Revelation have the same human author, I believe The Beloved Disciple was Mary and that John Mark wrote Revelation, but that's besides the point, Lmne isn't the only thing that Revelation and Luke alone have in common, in my Revelation studies I've noticed subtle references to Luke in Revelation a lot actually. Luke is the only NT Author who've native language was Greek for everyone else this was a second language and Matthew I refuse to believe was originally in Greek. Given what I know about Greek outside The Bible if I were an Atheist I'd be totally burying the other 3 Gospels for calling the Lake of Galilee a Thalassa, Thalassa refers in Greek principally almsot exclusively to the Mediterranean and Aegean Seas which they largely viewed as one Sea, Revelation also clearly has that Sea in mind when it uses that word. The LXX uses of Lmne are Psalm 1o7:35, 114:8 and Song of Songs all clearly about bodies of containers of water, in the Psalms ones it seems to be equated with the Hebrew word agam which in Exodus 7:19 is interchangeable with Mikveh. Using a word for a Body of Water should be naturally leading people to associate this with the Baptism of the Holy Spirit which is the context in which the phrase 'Unquenchable Fire" is introduced into the new Testament. The problem is in every passage about the Rite of Baptism we've transliterated that word instead of translating, it is a word for being immersed in water, and when the New Testament uses the word in clear reference to Torah Ritual Cleansing the KJV renders it Washings or Washed. Honestly it seems like your objection to lake is based on the size that implies, no matter what the purpose is it is eventually visualized as containing untold millions of people. Your own Argument mostly admits it generally referring pools of water, I don't translating base don metaphor there's where a lot of the Internalist bad translations come from to.

[@broderickwallis25]

You need your own channel to explain this... It's way to complicated but this video just consolidates all we've recently learned on this subject. All the best Kuundere...

[@thetotalvictoryofchrist9838]

The difference between the infernalist interpretation of this metaphor and Origen's, is Origen has scriptural authority that this refining metaphor is symbolic of disciplinary correction. The infernalist, like Augustine, is just imposing their view on the passage making it a completely new concept in the bible given without explanation.

[@Kuudere-Kun]

@@thetotalvictoryofchrist9838 And Augustine did it without the help of the modern English word Lake. The difference between the corrective metaphor I'm arguing for and the one your arguing for is mine still translated the word the way the word usually used.

[@Kuudere-Kun]

@@broderickwallis25 I have a blog SolaScirpturaChristianLiberty where I've already argued for my Baptism of The Holy Spirit view. I may make posts in the future on this, but first I want to make some on Baptist History.

[@Kuudere-Kun]

@@broderickwallis25 Actually stuff I write on Revelation specifically is more likely to be on my newest Blog titled MaterialistEschatology.

[@christian865]

If you take a look at John 14:6 New King James Version 6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. Doesn’t universalism provide another way other than Christ to come to the father?

[@zachariah7114]

John said to him, “Teacher, we saw someone casting out demons in your name, and we tried to stop him, *because he was not following us.”* But Jesus said, “Do not stop him, for no one who does a mighty work in my name will be able soon afterward to speak evil of me. For *the one who is not against us is for us.* For truly, I say to you, whoever gives you a cup of water to drink because you belong to Christ will by no means lose his reward." Mark 9:38-41

[@christian865]

@@zachariah7114 I’m not sure how that scripture correlates

[@WilliamKing-p1k]

i havent watched the vid but universal salvation is just a best case scenario imo not wholly proven or even liked that much. calvinism makes the most sense to me as a willing and interested agnostic. im willing to take on bible teachings the way the worlds going though. I doubt that universalism is true in fact.

[@thetotalvictoryofchrist9838]

Just think of Universal Restoration as a much more optimistic version of Calvinism.

[@artbyrobot1]

no calvinism is a completely false doctrine made up by the devil. That is why you, lacking the holy spirit, and a child of the devil, are drawn to it. Don't compare universalism to calivinism please. One is true and the other is a lie.