Christopher Hitchens - On PBS discussing the fate of the Parthenon marbles

July 31, 2009.
It's one of the great landmarks of history: the Parthenon in Athens, constructed in the 5th century B.C. It stands as a symbol of the cultural and political heights reached by the classical world. But it is today also at the center of a very modern debate: Who holds claim to a set of marble friezes (known as the "Elgin Marbles") that once adorned the structure?
We have our own debate with James Cuno, the president and director of the Art Institute of Chicago and author of the recent book, "Who Owns Antiquity?: Museums and the Battle over Ancient Heritage," and Christopher Hitchens, columnist for Vanity Fair and author of the book, "The Parthenon Marbles: The Case for Restitution."
Credit to PBS: www.pbs.org/newshour/art/blog/...

[@JimmyTheGreek2000]

There are no Elgin Marbles, ONLY Parthenon Marbles !

[@robertyianni3623]

@Soreofhing The majority are therefore wrong.

[@MrNixtt]

@@robertyianni3623 they are.

[@plexiglasslove]

Thank you Mr. Hitchens, I have great respect for you.

[@sdepountis]

Is that James Cuno for real? The Parthenon an "imaginary relic"? damn...

[@interestedme1393]

Is there a second part to this discussion?

[@robertwlester]

pity that this was cut short

[@ttttt85293]

+blueray1969 Really, I will comment childishly here: I will come to your house, steal your most valuables, display them to the public, make money out of all that, you will never see them back or even get a penny. Tell me, how's that for you? C. Hitchens, as always brilliant and spot on!

[@williamarthurfenton1496]

Yes it is rather childish when you look at the history of art collections around the world. Ownership is not such a simple and crude 'Oh it's from X country so it belongs to the people there'. Ancient Greece is a dead civilisation. However, on purely aesthetic terms I do actually think they should be reunited with the rest of them-- but I'm not going to cave to what's mostly a tedious patriotic rallying cause. It is all part of one building, and that's actually reason in itself. One thing that's also rather neglected when criticising Elgin is it was actually true the locals were destroying the structure and turning it into mortar for their houses. He deserves credit at least for that, because it is very likely some parts survive because of him taking them away.

[@aggdime5555]

@@williamarthurfenton1496 you are misinformed it was the ottomans that destroying them and fuckin elgin was a thieve he didnt care about safe them he just stole them and these marbles are part of greek history they are greek they should be in greece

[@williamarthurfenton1496]

@@aggdime5555 Yes, Elgin was a cultural vandal (as were most collectors back then-- don't try and look at people from history from our modern lens of ethics and values). That much we can agree on. However, that doesn't change the facts as they exist in the 21st century and what I said. Anyway tell me how many modern Greeks still worship Zeus? Yea.. that's a big point. Honestly at the time of the vandalism and theft NO ONE cared all that much-- not the Anglican British, not the Muslim Ottomans and not the Catholic Greeks.

[@Marina-pe1gx]

Cuno's inability to participate in the discussion is insane.

[@oldmanfromscenetwentyfour8164]

Give the fuckin things back!

[@Valencetheshireman927]

No, it was taken legitimately. The Greeks didn’t even care about the marbles hence why the Parthenon was used as an ammunition dump without protest

[@marthas8108]

If the Parthenon Marbles belong where they should be seen by the greatest number of people, vs being reunited with their original whole, then it's time to move them to New York or Beijing. Surely the British Museum would agree with that, having argued for so long that context doesn't matter? (For those who can't tell, this is sarcasm.)

[@BreakingUFC]

London is 3rd most internationally visited city in the world. Behind Beijing and Hong Kong in first place

[@thestargazer118]

The English should return all of the treasures that they have stolen from all over the world not only the Parthenon Marbles.

[@nirupamcarteick5550]

agreed

[@Fummy007]

Make me

[@edmund184]

stolen...stolen? What about all the art work in America. Virtually everything in the Met is from other countries.

[@Valencetheshireman927]

Ok, then the Greeks should give the Ionian islands back to Britain and the French should return the bayeux tapestry back to the place it was made. England! We need to return everything that was stolen for the last thousand years, good luck achieving that

[@keats6431]

When David Cameron was asked whether Britain intended to give them back, he said no, because if they did, the BM would have to give everything else it housed back to their original countries and there would be nothing left. in the BM. Err ...that's kind of the point David ...

[@dicso25]

You cannot convince even yourself Mr.Cuno with such shallow arguments...

[@facepalmjesus1608]

my father and this man were both my greatest influences for my mentality. I love you both and i am sure you both slap god or satan every and each moment of your eternity in heaven or in paradise

[@prepro595]

The o in cuno should be replaced with a t.

[@chriskost7291]

Thank you Christopher

[@mathewtoll6780]

Why cut the argument in half?

[@eggsandwine]

James Cuno's attempt to put together some kind of an argument is pathetic.

[@KanakarisGeorge]

Come back Hitch.

[@socratesgoulas9036]

Hitchens the Great!!! Greetings from Hellas!

[@ntonisa6636]

This guy made the dumbest argument I've ever seen anyone on the British side of the debate make. So the Parthenon isn't real and the statues should stay in England because the Greeks had some turkish minaret or whatever removed from the site in the 1830s to restore it closer to its original appearance? LOL wot m8? Where's the logic here? Leaving aside the fact that the statues had always been there for over 2250 years before Elgin began hacking even while it was a mosque, does anyone seriously think that this guy would be in favour of returning them to Athens had the Greeks allowed the "accretions" to stay? Because my guess is he would have argued the exact opposite by citing those adjustments made by the ottomans and the crusaders to argue that the classical monument had changed dramatically and that's why the statues should stay in London. It's a heads I win, tails you lose bs argument.

[@santopaok4585]

When we Greeks were building Parthenons, you ate acorns

[@Valencetheshireman927]

Building Stonehenge.

[@Valencetheshireman927]

Hitch lost this one

[@Alltorn-N56]

Shoutout to 2IBTA lolololo

[@shazanali692]

I think this is one hitch lost, the other dude has a point

[@FireTheHoker]

James Cuno i know your name now and after the enlgish thieves you're next

[@williamarthurfenton1496]

He was Scottish actually. Anyway, have you ever considered that at certain periods in time it's not actually safe or sensible to leave monuments in the hands of the current power? Take the Middle East for example, with extremists obliterating their own ancient cities. At the time I'd say it's just as much rescuing the marbles from destruction by the locals to use for house building, as it was also theft. In other words stand back and look at the whole picture.

[@aggdime5555]

@@williamarthurfenton1496 For many years now it is safe elgin the thieve didnt care about the safeness he was just STOLE THEM BRING THE MARBLES BACK

[@williamarthurfenton1496]

@@aggdime5555 That was a long time ago. I have no objection to them going back to Athens, but I still think people fail to consider some important facts. The marbles will not go back on the structure, so just banged up in another museum. Also let's be real, most Greeks simply use it as a patriotic rallying cry rather than genuine love of aesthetics and art. Not a bash against Greeks, but you know people all over the world are the same, in that everything becomes a political agenda when maybe it shouldn't most of the time.

[@aggdime5555]

@@williamarthurfenton1496 political agenda or not( i personally dont like any of greek politician )the marbles are greek and the value it is not about the money but because they are part of history

[@Fummy007]

Britain owns it. thats that.

[@goosegreen4008]

Never ever. Should remain in Britain.

[@Horizon344]

They should be in London, Hitchens - who always disliked England - was wrong.

[@ale3hs]

The english should stick to fish & chips maybe