I'm literally in the middle of buying into the fuji system, and then this video pops up to answer the questions I've been vigorously googling the past 2 weeks. Thank you Chris!
@blood_n_guts_murphy4 жыл бұрын
Certain lenses can be very cheap on the grey market too like the pancakes and kit zooms. Its not an expensive system imo.
@Arkaus243 жыл бұрын
Quite common for cashback too
@333_studios2 жыл бұрын
Same here.
@mixeddrinks81004 жыл бұрын
Lens from the list you mentioned, I own the trio XC lens, discover this channel because of the XC lens reviews. Excellent lenses, I prefer to use the front dial for aperture so worked out perfectly. I find the XC15-45 more useful for that 3mm wider range than the 18-55 kit, and a lot lighter. The tele one also has a bit more reach than the 50-200. The trade off of image quality is little, and the extra stops feels a bit unnecessary when shooting landscape at F8 anyways. I do like the XC35 but I think if I had to do it again, probably the one i wouldn't get, not really a prime person, only time I really grab the prime is for the wider aperture, and a bit more you get a much more solid feeling Viltrox 33 with autofocus. Also own the Samyang, the 12mm is really worth it when you need to shoot really wide, and for that astro shot you get to do once or twice a year. However the other Samyang you mentioned I feel like at that price point you might as well just get the similar Viltrox version, autofocus etc. Lastly the Laowa 65mm honorable mention is probably my favorite macro lens on the Fuji system period. Prefer it better than the actual Fuji version more magnification. Also thank you for all the FUJI alternative lens review, quite a lot of youtuber does review of the Fuji lens, but no one does the cheaper alternative like you do. One of the most to the point reviews out there for the system!
@nadirnazirov47074 жыл бұрын
Christopher, watching your videos year after year is a great pleasure.
@YoetoenYoe4 жыл бұрын
Just what I needed after buying a XT-30 last week. Really enjoy your lens reviews. Thanks for this!
@DeviGlamor8 ай бұрын
Can you make an updated version of this video? It'd be great to see the many new options since there have been many new release
@NigelHarperPhoto4 жыл бұрын
I have the Samyang 8mm and a 35mm f1.2 which as mentioned, is a very sharp lens. Both are manual focus, but with Fuji’s focus aids such as peaking, make them easier to use. Great all round review of 3rd party lenses! Cheers
@maotemplar Жыл бұрын
This is my favorite KZbin channel! I love everything, including the gentle piano in background and your perfect and clear English.
@amonkalagin53064 жыл бұрын
I think Jonas Rask mentioned on his blog, that 7Artisans will come out with a 35mm 0.95 option soon, that uses the exact same optical formula as the awesome Mitakon 35mm 0.95 at a lower cost as well. Could be a really nice option too.
@duribe3164 жыл бұрын
What an amazing video. So much information accompanied by such wonderful images. You are by far the best lens reviewer on KZbin. Great work.
@simonjensen5964 жыл бұрын
The timing of this video.. literally just bought a fuji earlier today
@LEGIONGAMESJD4 жыл бұрын
Welcome to this expensive love my friend... you are gonna feel like a sugar daddy soon.
@dieterpeten53854 жыл бұрын
I think the best cheap lense is the xc 35mm f2. its realy great and uses even cheaper.
@AmmarHabjouqa4 жыл бұрын
Wonderful collection. I hadn’t realized there were so many third party lenses for the X mount. Thanks.
@pyotrpig3 жыл бұрын
All mf tho
@JoeDoe1032 жыл бұрын
I've had the Samyang 12mm for 3 years at this point and I can say that it's easily still my favorite lens for astrophotography. Great video!
@martinpower26354 жыл бұрын
Thanks to your videos I have purchased the 75mm f1.8 Samyang for the E mount and I must say I absolutely love it.
@petoneoldboy22223 жыл бұрын
Thanks Chris. I got the Mitakon f0.95 35mm mark ii. Highly regarded in reviews. It’s AWESOME. PRIMO. Also bought the Samyang f1.4 85mm manual. It’s a GREAT mini-Tele/Portrait lens. Love them both. My 18-55mm “kit lens” is a great quality, reasonably priced super versatile work-horse, that you could leave on your camera for much of the time. Recommend this Highly! Cheers.
@demonsaint12964 жыл бұрын
When shooting manual switch to black and white jpg and use red focus peaking. Quick to nail focus with a red outline. If you have the RAF it will be color of course.
@raulzito294 жыл бұрын
Brilliant video! Your channel helps me a lot when I am choosing my next lens for my X-T200. I would love to see a video on your favourite fuji lenses (first and third party)
@oliverwoodburyphotography68184 жыл бұрын
The XC 35mm f2 is awesome for the price! Highly recommend, it was my first lens for Fujifilm. Nice reviews!
@sirajkh41362 жыл бұрын
Hi can it use for portrait photography
@maxwiltshire61594 жыл бұрын
Great video; thanks Chris. Just a +1 for the Viltrox 23mm - really lovely lens and amazing value. I'm delighted with mine.
@erikmortensen1091 Жыл бұрын
Thanks Christopher I am considering 35mm 1.4 prime lens for indoor and portrait for my Fujifilm XT20 camera. Great and extremely thorough review. I am now subscribing to your channel.
@draazar4 жыл бұрын
Very helpful analysis for those who don’t have an unlimited budget! Thank you very much
@aronblohm3 жыл бұрын
Thx a for this overview of fuji lenses. This helps me a lot. The length of the video is perfect. Not too many information but also not too little 🙌👏👌👍
@MrKoalalan4 жыл бұрын
Dear Christopher, great review for 2020. I miss the new TTArtisan 35mm f1.4 come in very late this october. I receive my copy last week. And I think this will be change the game. Great lens. Perhaps to grab it and test it out .....
@kingsamvisuals3 жыл бұрын
Its really nice.
@d96669b4 жыл бұрын
This was a huge help for me, someone who's just about to buy a fuji. Thanks.
@djtruedomination3 жыл бұрын
I have the 23mm and 56mm for Viltrox. I think they are awesome lenses!
@jovankaramach4 жыл бұрын
Right on time. Thank you for this video. I was planning to purchase some budget lens for my fuji system.
@AntonyBall-h9g10 ай бұрын
Great review Christopher I have two lenses you reviewed I just bought a TTartisans 23mm 1.4 lens = to 35mm manual lens I'm looking forward to getting it in the post soon I enjoy your reviews God bless from Tony.......
@MaxR.4 жыл бұрын
I would love a XC50mm f2. Thanks for your great reviews and tests
@blood_n_guts_murphy4 жыл бұрын
The XF is my favorite lens and similar price to the Viltrox lenses used. With it having shallower DOF than the 35mm, the aperture ring gets used a lot. I used it much less with the 23mm f2, so would like an XC of that one. They may as well do an 18mm and 90mm while they are at it 😉
@stefansmuts88824 жыл бұрын
Amazing video Chris! Loving your work. Please keep these reviews coming - soon you'll have covered all the lenses out there!
@maxszeto70304 жыл бұрын
Considered many of these lenses but settled on a 2nd hand 16-55mm for about 40% less than RRP. Blown away.
@GreatJoe3 жыл бұрын
I got a couple manual prime lenses for my X-E2, but my favourite is the 7Artisans 50mm F/1.8. It's pretty bright for the price, and the colour rendition is very nice. The fully-open vignetting is pretty low, too.
@joyceannediana40703 жыл бұрын
Thank you so much! It's very helpful. I'm planning to buy a Fuji camera but having second thoughts because of the expensive lenses. However, I saw this and I'm kindof convinced now because now I know I've got the cheaper (but still good quality wise) options. I trust your review/opinion. Sample photos are very helpful.
@markm834 жыл бұрын
Great round-up Christopher! This is very useful information and puts the image quality of each lens in context, to help with purchasing decisions.
@4skin4sale713 жыл бұрын
I bought a Fuji XE4 “body only” without realising what body only meant 😅 and now I’ve been on google looking for lens and I’ve seen £400-800 for a lens soooo I’m glad this vid is here ahah
@rianadz-hani Жыл бұрын
can you make it again, because now there are many new lenses for fujifilm at low prices
@Ben_Lichtfaenger Жыл бұрын
I will appreciate a updated video on this topic with brightin star 35 an 50mm and the viltrox 13mm. But still a good overview
@JokingJay4 жыл бұрын
My kingdom for Sigma's APS-C primes on Fuji X... As much as I like some of the Viltrox options (the 23mm in parcitular), I'd much prefer the Sigma 56mm F1.4 for the weather sealing. I was encouraged a while back when Sigma's CEO said they'd explore bringing lenses to X mount if the market share grew, but that's now happened and no moves appear to have been made. Fingers crossed for the future, I guess!
@danniel01434 жыл бұрын
Its is happening now. Sigma and Fuji 2021 ;)
@divyangkundaliya35843 жыл бұрын
2021 is about to end. Still no official first look so far
@laurapeter38572 жыл бұрын
It’s happening in May 2022.
@seleem_abouzid4 жыл бұрын
i had been waiting for this video for while now... thanks
@user-ns4mc1ps1h10 ай бұрын
Hi, could you make a video for 2024?
@tiagobarreiros4 жыл бұрын
This is the video I have been looking for!! Great job. Thank you.
@CrisConstantin4 жыл бұрын
Great video, Chris. Super informative as always! Love your voice overs.
@idogalisr4 жыл бұрын
Great summarising review. Wish more info such as that will be available. Had made the "judgement" of getting into the Fuji ecosystem a year and a half ago, after examining the camera itself thoroughly, but not fully understanding the importance of the lenses market. Then realised it is pretty expensive to get good autofocus lenses. For the M4/3 system, for example, the low-price availability is much higher. Thank you!
@NetTubeUser4 жыл бұрын
This is exactly what I was looking for! Thank you very much!! Now I have many choices for my XT-4 with many good relatively cheap lenses!
@DesertCookie3 жыл бұрын
3:26 Did you maybe accidentally swap the f2.8-4 and f2.8 versions of the lens? The latter is expensive but the format - referred to as kit lens - is only about 250-300€.
@westsenkovec4 жыл бұрын
I would recommend the Samyang 16 mm f2. More usable than 12 mm and less distorted, more natural.
@SiddhantParkar4 жыл бұрын
Samyang 85mm f1.8 is the king of manual lenses. It’s my favorite lens after the XF 23 1.4
@christopherfrost4 жыл бұрын
It's definitely underappreciated I think
@maxwiltshire61594 жыл бұрын
@@christopherfrost Would you prefer it to the Viltrox 85mm, which has autofocus and is slightly pricier?
@SiddhantParkar4 жыл бұрын
@@maxwiltshire6159 It’s one of the best lenses I’ve ever used. It’s a breeze to manual focus at 85 1.8 unlike 50 1.2 for similar bokeh
@Doober9874 жыл бұрын
I couldn’t agree anymore, it’s been my favorite manual lens and I’ve taken some of my best portraits with it.
@PhotoGearFun4 жыл бұрын
Thanks so much for this awesome run down of lenses. I am a big fan of your reviews. Keep up the amazing work. God bless.
@blenderdad3 жыл бұрын
I love the mitakon 35mm so much. It's not the sharpest in the world, but the handling, the character, the build quality.... I love it
@sreejithpisharody22164 жыл бұрын
Wow, I was researching since last 2 months ! and I use to give the search key that you put on the tittle. Thanks ! had subscribed u long back !
@marceloweyll3 жыл бұрын
Great video, mate! What’s your thoughts about Meike 28mm f/2.8 for fuji? I didn’t see much videos about it. Specifically on fuji. Tks!
@donho65239 ай бұрын
Thank you for this informative video. Any chance you could do an update now that fuji has opened up for third party lenses?
@angielcphoto3 жыл бұрын
Nice collection here!! 👍👍 Thanks for sharing!
@candidonthestreetanupamgos52833 жыл бұрын
Nice review. But two more important lenses have been missed out. The 7artisans 25mm f1.8 which doesn't suffer from the field curvature issue like it's 35mm f1.2 and the 7artisans 35mm f0.95. both these two lenses deserved mention too in my opinion.
@hauntingpuns2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the recs!
@Optidorf4 жыл бұрын
There are also some super tele lenses from Sanyang and Meike with 100mm, 135mm and 300mm. The Meike 85mm f/2.8 is a good macro lens with a magnification of 1.5:1, the 7Artisans macro lens of 60mm is however cheaper.
@juanpaulocabugsa7714 жыл бұрын
I'm planning to buy Fuji XS10 next month, thanks for making this :))
@anthonydyke82733 жыл бұрын
TT Artisan 50 mm F 1.2 for Fuji . Absolutely fantastic manual lens . Get it for around 100 u/s dollars . If you shoot black and white this lens is a stunner .
@DavidLivneh3 жыл бұрын
I agree. An amazing lens for it's price!
@LeanoBenefico4 жыл бұрын
congratulations for the video, very interesting overview to create a fuji kit without spending too much
@jpr-tech4 жыл бұрын
Impeccable timing! I just bought the X-H1 recently!
@ProudNothing4 жыл бұрын
Awesome video! Love my Xt3, that 35mm f2 images look so great, I’ll have to pick one up 😊
@geraldsaved3 жыл бұрын
Thank you so much for this video. I know it takes time to make such great content.
@kaptmart Жыл бұрын
a 2023 update would be nice
@GlenBarnett4 жыл бұрын
Great video as usual Chris. I have the 23, 56 & 85mm Viltrox lenses and have to say, for a budget brand, they really are superb!
@mvhan9114 жыл бұрын
If you would have to choose two of them - which would it be ?
@pizzablender4 жыл бұрын
@@mvhan911 23 is easy to use, I'd get that one. The other two are a matter of preference.
@shy-guy55444 жыл бұрын
A very useful and informative video. Thanks
@CaravanMovies3 жыл бұрын
Im looking for all round zoom lens for xt4 like 18-135 ....do you have any idea about that ?
@LarsIvarHenriksen3 жыл бұрын
What about macro photography and video?
@Peter20224 жыл бұрын
What does XF and XC stand for? Are they fit for every fuji camera?
@iimmm3 жыл бұрын
XC is a cheaper line of lenses
@josh5k4 жыл бұрын
I wish that the Viltrox lenses were available here in India. All we get is the 7artisans and a couple of Meike options right now. The Fuji xc35 is a must buy for anyone with a Fuji body unless they want to pony up for the XF or XR versions.
@lionheart4424 Жыл бұрын
Thanks for this video! At this date SIGMA finally joined the X mount which makes ir even better to enjoy Fujifilm cameras.
@obbewassenaar52034 жыл бұрын
Great collection! Missed the 9 mm Laowa. Maybe not really budget but third party and lovely little lens.
@cokrlicix Жыл бұрын
If you want really cheap and manual focus is not a problem for you, then go vintage! For 30-50 euros you can buy amazing lenses, a few decades old but still very good. I use XT-4 and Pentax Takamur 55mm 1.8 is my favorite lens, colors I get with it are perfect, creamy bokeh...just love it. Also Fujinon 50mm 1.9 AX mount (old Fuji mount) very sharp lens, with bokeh's out of this world...and they were 30-40euros each, plus an adapter. So for around 50e each, I got lenses that are really fantastic and I love working with them, and both of them are less than the cheapest modern ones from the store. And you are not going for lesser quality with those, on the contrary.
@itimonium90623 жыл бұрын
With the 7artisans 18mm 6.3 there is now also a no-focus lens for Fuji X available. That should be even easier to use then AF lenses.
@PangKhaiShuen8 ай бұрын
Hi Chris, truly appreciate this video. I wonder if there's any new contenders worthy of mention now in 2024?
@rolfluiken88044 жыл бұрын
Thank you very much for this round-up video. I have been looking forward to this one for some time now, so I am very happy. All the work put into reviewing these lenses is highly appreciated!
@musicdefinesgravity4 жыл бұрын
Great huge selection and very nice sum up of their strength and weaknesses
@JumpingWatermelons2 жыл бұрын
Folks - I'm looking for a *good* lens around 16mm or 18mm. Up to 21mm could work or 23 if I really give up on wider. What should I look at?? I much prefer a full MF lens, but also happy if it's an AF lens that I can move the focus equipment directly (not actuating a motor).. I have a Mitakon 35mm f/0.95 and like it a lot. I have a Kamlan 21mm and I am unsatisfied with the image quality. What should I look at? Should I just 'give up' and buy a Fuji 16mm 2.8 or an 18mm 2.0? (I can buy the 18mm when I go to Thailand at a much lower price than usual. I forget, maybe $150). I think I won't like the size of the Fuji 16mm 1.4. I might also be open to buying the Voigtlander 23mm, but I'm not sure if it's worth it
@вованчикс4 жыл бұрын
What's about the new 7artisans 35mm f/0.95 manual focus?
@christopherfrost4 жыл бұрын
I haven't tested it yet although a review is coming soon - it looks good :-)
@вованчикс4 жыл бұрын
@@christopherfrost thanks 👍
@sergeis69024 жыл бұрын
It is great review. Personally I find investing in Fringer EF_X adapter for Canon autofocus lenses solves a lot and opens a whole new world to Fuji, especially if you already have some Canon lenses. Given also the fact what prices on Canon EF and EFs lenses are going down now as people sell them with a new RF bayonet intro. Also some great lenses from Sigma Art series become useful on Fuji.
@amirulizzad61224 жыл бұрын
You broke my heart and my already broken wallet when you mentioned my error in judgement there... 😢
@mixeddrinks81004 жыл бұрын
HAHAHAHAH that was a dagger in the heart that first line.
@just_eirik4 жыл бұрын
there are tons of very cheap lenses for Fuji. They are not always amazing optically, but some are good enough and, as I said, cheap. Look for brands like Meike, 7Artisans and Kamlan. There are others too, but I have not owned any lenses from those.
@jobanski4 жыл бұрын
Fortunately he’s wrong.
@annonomowz49034 жыл бұрын
The lenses for the system may not be cheap but I still think they're tremendous value for money in terms of price / performance.
@atefamriche95314 жыл бұрын
"Error of judgement" is HIS OPINION. I'll tell you one thing for sure. Invest time in practicing manual focus and then an entire WORLD of awesome vintage lenses opens up for you. I own a sony APS-C camera and started with the kit lens 16-50 and then got also the 55-210mm. After only one year, I now have 8 lenses total and only one of them is the Sony (the first 16-50mm). That's only because I haven't found a buyer for it yet. So I'll say it again, vintage lenses and adapted lenses (from Nikon, canon, m42 ...) can make your heart melt at their quality and character. They can definitely beat modern lenses in sharpness as well as other attributes of image quality. The BEST part, you can keep an eye for some specific ones and get them SUPER CHEAP ($10-$100 in many cases). There are several KZbin channels that review these vintage lenses. I suggest taking advice from people who actually tested and/or owned many of these vintage lenses. Some of these channels do not have sponsors sending them free stuff (good thing) and they actually own and have extensive experience with vintage lenses. They will NOT recommend to you a lens because they have a link in the description and they get a commission when you use it.
@HuthsReportagen3 жыл бұрын
Great overview 👍
@blood_n_guts_murphy4 жыл бұрын
Part 2 could include the TTartisans trio coming out now (17mm, 35mm f1.4 and 50mm f1.2, I think), the new 7Artisans bodycap 18mm f6.3 and their fisheye 7.5mm f2.8. Not sure if you mentioned the 16-50 II which I much prefer to the 15-45mm. Maybe do it when Tokina have released their versions of the Viltrox lenses which shouldn’t be too far away. 👍
@EnriqueLin954 жыл бұрын
KamLan announced a new lens, the 32mm f1.1. It is priced the same as the 50mm f1.1 Mark II. I tried it during a camera show event earlier this week in Taiwan (where KamLan is found). It handles really nice and has very nice build quality. And the rings are smooth as well. However, I wasn't able to test out the image quality. I also chatted with the founder of KamLan. He said he's interested in allowing reviewers review their products. Maybe give them another chance for the 32mm f1.1? I certainly would love to see your take on that lens.
@christopherfrost4 жыл бұрын
I'll try to get in touch with them
@EnriqueLin954 жыл бұрын
@@christopherfrost Awesome, thanks!
@MichaelBabich4 жыл бұрын
Great review. Very useful! Thank you a lot!
@pandoraefretum4 жыл бұрын
thaNks for the 4k resolution ... great round-up
@jasonwander48414 жыл бұрын
Zonlai 35/1.6 is the most “moody” lens i’ve ever used which is not expensive too, and ttartisian just release a new 50/1.2 which costs less than 500 RMB (around 75 dollars?) ,that may be a good choice too.
@nickbakis15534 жыл бұрын
Great review! Thanks Chris
@matchessegamer346020 күн бұрын
God I'm so lost, Someone give me recommendations on which one to pick. I tried my friend's tamron 18-270 f/3.5-22 zooms lens on a canon and got me into photography so I bought an X-T3 body. Overall I love taking close up pics most of them are in 200-270mm range specially because of the bokeh it gives. I believe getting a fast f/1.2-2 in the range of 50-90mm would be best suitable for me but I also want one that gives me a wider view like 18-23mm. Although 35mm seems like the best balance. on the other side I could get one of fuji's zoom lens like the 70-300mm. Any tips on where to start without exploding my bank account ))
@minasp.30954 жыл бұрын
You, sir, are a savior! Very comprehensive overview and to the point. Thank you 📷
@logtothebase23 жыл бұрын
Also there is a good second had market in Fuji branded stuff including the classic primes
@dotty77894 жыл бұрын
I'm looking for a good vlog lens. One that can handle being outdoors and has an aperture of F2 or more. I do love the 16-80 kit lens I got with my xt4, but I want a good prime lens that I can use solely for my face whether I'm outside or inside. I'm not the biggest fan of the fisheye lenses and I was looking for something in the 15-25mm range. I was looking at Fuji's official primes but the 18mm isn't weather resistant, sadly. I wouldn't mind manually focusing because I'd either be stationary or walking with the camera in a baby monopod. Thoughts?
@MasoodJamal3 жыл бұрын
Please suggest a bought autofocus ultra wide angle lens for indoor Real Estate videography with Sony ZV-E10 camera ?
@richardhale96643 жыл бұрын
A very cheap MF alternative to the 27mm pancake is Meike's 28mm f2.8 for around £50. Small light and sharp, with a sensible filter size (49mm) it is an ideal take anywhere lens with a XE or XT10/20/30 camera. Meike's 50mm f1.7 is also very good, if a bit heavy (it is designed optically as a FF lens) and the aperture/focus rings take some getting used to. My copy of the Kamlan 38mm f1.4 is excellent and only let down by the need for a hood, due to it being prone to flare. You need an after market one though as the supplied hood is a bayonet fitting which is not executed very well, being difficult to mount properly and prone to falling off if only slightly knocked.
@JetBen5554 жыл бұрын
7artisans just released a 35mm f0. 95 for Sony APSC camera and I heard its much better than the 1.2 version. I wonder if they will make a version for every mirrorless mount.
@dustinwilloughby2963 жыл бұрын
Did u edit the photograph at 3:41, or is that a film simulation? I love the colors!
@saibalphotography44674 жыл бұрын
Everything about fuji cheap lens...! You are amazing..👍
@Mnilionic3 жыл бұрын
What about samyang 135mm f2.0 Fuji ?
@MrsCap24 жыл бұрын
Nice one I will share this with my girlfriend who is owning one fuji 😌
@tonyjedioftheforest13644 жыл бұрын
Is the Samyang 12mm rectilinear suitable for full frame Chris ? I have the 14mm Samyang for my Full frame Canon but can’t afford the Iris 11mm just yet.
@kstrohmeier4 жыл бұрын
Where does the Laowa 60mm f2.8 macro fit? On the expensive side relative to the others, but not relative to its Fuji counterpart.
@wasee66944 жыл бұрын
Hi Chris, your style of testing lenses and cameras are great, I am watching your videos from 2015. I have a small request, whenever you test 70-200 f2.8 Nikon,Sony,Sigma,tamron lenses test the focus breathing are they real 200mm are less than 200mm at 1.9m to 3.8m distance . All manufacturers hide this information. (We pay for 200mm f2.8 ) Thanks
@jejakmaknawi4 жыл бұрын
You left out Venus Laowa.. I keen to know more about their macros if you could help the review. Thank you
@petersaunders53084 жыл бұрын
I'm obviously a cheapskate as I have several of these. I would like to plug the ridiculously cheap 7artisans 25/1.8. It has acceptable sharpness but its best attribute is the close focus of about 8". This gives way more opportunity for defocused backgrounds and interesting bokeh effects than the faster Viltrox 23/1.4. I also enjoy it as a discrete street photography lens at f8 using zone focussing technique. Whilst I also own the Viltrox 23 and Fuji 27 I frequently opt for the 7artisans for its greater creative potential.
@ErebosGR4 жыл бұрын
The Fujian 25mm/1.8 is practically the same and even cheaper. ;) It's main drawback is its short focus throw though. For that, the Fujian 25mm/1.4 is better.