Chromium and the Voltron Debate | The Command Zone 219 | Magic: the Gathering Commander/EDH Podcast

[@legoyoda9026]

People seem to forget is you don’t need your voltron commander to be 21/21 it just needs to be 11/11 double strike

[@CR-kr9cs]

Dagoth Ur what if my commander is a 12/12?.. Lol my Kozilek, the Great Distortion voltron deck is a bit toxic. It has 35 sources of ramp and most of the big eldrazi. It’s chalk full of double strike/evasion/protection equipments. With a solid blink engine to prevent kozilek being sacrificed or boardwiped. I play kozilek on t2-t3 pretty frequently and swing for lethal the same turn.

[@Deamonic]

or 10/x infect

[@AK_Mediaz]

Forget that i run squee voltron, looks totally not frightening and everyone just thinks oh great goblin tribal then i pull 36 double strike out by turn 6

[@lynneblessing5232]

Just look at rafiq of the many lol

[@tebefore]

@@CR-kr9cs * sad normal little no expensive cards kozilek deck noises *

[@timothyvandenberg2905]

KEEP DJ!!!!!!!!! DJ ROCKS!!!!!!! Bring Jimmy Back & make it the Three Musketeers of Commander!!!!!!!!

[@japroject1]

Timothy Vandenberg that would be perfect

[@Redcoat86]

Or three amigos, sombreros and all!

[@turnonesacredcat7923]

Yes josh please!!!!!

[@JpDubbed]

THAT would be great! I'm waiting for DJ to be on Game Knights with one of his own decks 👌👌 cmon Josh. Let him playyyyyy

[@LunarWingCloud]

Having DJ on the show has been really really great. I do find Jimmy to be really cool, but he seemed visibly tired in the last few episodes he was in before he took a break. I'm looking forward to his triumphant return, but DJ's been an excellent fill-in.

[@MTGMuddstah]

Totally agree! DJ is such a fantastic addition to the team while Jimmy is away.

[@aydensauvageau9393]

MTG Muddstah

[@JumboCommander]

Thank you so much ... I also

[@rmcminiking]

He was probably tired because of Disney riding his ass 😂

[@ohboyeric]

I'm here from the future where Josh has built 2 Voltron decks in the past year

[@codicarroll5537]

Greven and feather

[@NexusVFD]

Im here from the future where my first edh deck is a Voltron deck

[@mixtand138]

So Chomium is potentially viable for Voltron, Control, or Reanimator? One might say he's... mutable???

[@mikelong2756]

Chomium huh

[@goretoriumgaming8600]

Yeah I use him in esper dragons control

[@CR-kr9cs]

mixtand138 Kozilek is top tier voltron control commander Lol my Kozilek, the Great Distortion voltron deck is a bit toxic. It has 35 sources of ramp and most of the big eldrazi. It’s chalk full of double strike/evasion/protection equipments. With a solid blink engine to prevent kozilek being sacrificed or boardwiped. I play kozilek on t2-t3 pretty frequently and swing for lethal the same turn.

[@soldierswitheggs]

I'm very surprised they didn't mention Bruna. She's pretty popular (more decks on EDHREC than Sigarda, who they did mention), and deals with a lot of the weaknesses Josh talks about because you don't have to pay to attach the auras on the first place and can bring them back from the graveyard.

[@sometimes...icomment7456]

Yup. Cavern of souls to make her uncounterable. Couple counters/protection instants to keep her alive. Just gotta make sure you have enough auras to one shot someone and pull off one attack. Also steals auras from other possible voltrons. Her biggest weakness imo is that she is 6 mana and people will save their counters for her if you dont have cavern out.

[@DeviltoGeorgia34]

I always think Bruna was printed one block too early (not for story reasons, but for her ability reasons). Imagine her and Theros being standard legal together. Also, "Bubbles" is overlooked because she's not as popular as her sisters Gisela (Blossom) or Sigarda (Buttercup). I remember having Bruna in my old Rafiq deck and she ended up being taken by another player. He attacked, so I dug my Auras out of my graveyard and said "I'm assuming you want these." "Wait they don't have to be mine?" *Reads Bruna* "Gimme all your things!!!"

[@IIIColinIII]

@@DeviltoGeorgia34 why would you give him your graveyard auras? Bruna light of alabaster doesn't say grab them from any grave. It says your grave. That doesn't mean an opponent gets yours...

[@Zeb1904]

5:20

[@alexmendozaarchdemonofburg7856]

Zeb 1904 bahahahahahaha

[@DecrepitFlunky]

Bless

[@DCAMM720]

Hero

[@Itryhardder]

👍

[@jacejames3853]

0:00

[@ThePoesn]

I must say that I like DJ better atm. A bit more discussion and newer perspective as josh says. It's really refreshing.

[@voltcorp]

Yeah, at first couple episodes I felt Josh was being too unforgiving in his replies and silent moments, but apparently they're improving the chemistry;

[@ThePoesn]

Don't get me wrong though. I like jimmy too. But his feels fresh and new.

[@anthonydelfino6171]

Jimmy and Josh tend to agree on things too much. I like that DJ will actually disagree with what Josh has to say. It makes for a more interesting discussion.

[@ThePoesn]

Anthony Delfino exactly!

[@kdchmln]

sure, though i think Jimmy is smarter and has better advice. DJ seems like he's always kinda confused and asking questions rather than making knowledgeable statements.

[@christopherstephens2475]

Yusss!! Craig is soo good at his job!! Perfectly presents everything as it's being discussed and allowing conversation to flow, he's awesome and you guys are still crushing it!!!!!

[@FANTAVISION]

I really want to build an Arcades Wall deck. Attacking walls is just way too funny not to make!

[@jamespooh2]

FANTAVISION Exactly

[@brucep.6671]

Build that wall👌

[@AhranMaoDante]

It is fun...when it's not facing against a Sultai Mill deck, or a Mono Blue Eldrazi/Sliver/Golem deck.

[@jacejames3853]

Its an amazing deck

[@graffpov]

well, imho walls is very fragile

[@deadnoobie2859]

Anyone else disappointed that when Josh asked "What is Voltron?" that he didn't answer with "the Defender of the universe!"?

[@porkthepink]

Yes , he seemed to barely know what Voltron was at all

[@tilleruez6869]

> Voltron > Any black player with sacrifice effects (present for sure) > The sound of silence.

[@comradecameron3726]

Tilleruez Dictate of Erebos is one of my favorite cards

[@MrNemitri]

Sigarda ignores that effect entirely, give her indestructible and she is really difficult to remove

[@dancook6114]

And this is why assault suit is one of my new favourite cards in a voltron deck that isnt sigarda

[@tilleruez6869]

ikr but it's one of few exceptions ;) Most of time players can find an answer to punish 'one and only'. The strategy is also kinda against casual spirit of EDH - voltron smashes one player till 21 pts instead of interacting with each other giving a chance to have some more fun :)

[@aitoriri1]

Let me introduce you the best Voltron commander: Sigarda, Host of Herons

[@oom-3262]

I like commanders that can support a voltron subtheme but still be good by theirselves. I recently made a lifegain tribal soldiers with licia, sanguine tribune and I have numerous ways to win the game, other than just voltron.

[@LogoMotive11]

OOM- 32 thats so funny because ive done the same thing. My Licia is vampire tribal with a voltron sub theme that wins by going big or wide, and can drain everyone if combat is no longer available.

[@34Vilend]

Kinda like Toothy, Imiganary Friend from Battlebond. You dont even need to use auras or equipment to Voltron him out.

[@oom-3262]

I'd also say licia is quite unique in the way you invest your life on her, and that she can get so cheap even with command tax involved.

[@mr.mammuthusafricanavus8299]

Licia is very underrated, you can instantly pump her and get your investment back:P

[@XxMechaxWolfxX]

Can this kid get a list for that? Licia is my guilty pleasure

[@phonicfox870]

i strongly disagree with the point that the 21 damage is irrelevant bc “by the point it matters youre already close to dying anyway” - i love playing voltron politically, so keeping everyone alive but within killing range is a must for my voltron decks.

[@joshleekwai8895]

phonic fox It’s not THAT reason it’s rarely relevant it’s A reason. And when combined with all the other weakness...we’ll obviously the strategy just doesn’t speak to me and I don’t find it to be powerful or fun.

[@Small_Panda]

I think it's more of what players find fun that gives them power. If you don't like things you tend to see the weaknesses well over the strengths. I do agree at top level play voltron isn't powerful. That being said almost no strategy outside of combo/storm is truly competitive. Now if you go 100% voltron your right it won't ever be powerful as your not interacting but all decks that don't interact unless they play to combo long before anyone else can stop them need interaction. So decks like zur which are voltron/tool box like or brago who can be kind of value/voltron. Those decks can be really powerful, a deck that only does voltron will always be weak not because it's voltron but because they limited themselves to only voltron. It's best to use voltron in a way that benefits more than let me SMASH. i.e. zur, brago

[@Small_Panda]

HOW DID I ALSO FORGET ANIMAR, who can be an amazing, and can also kind of be a voltron style commander who gives massive value.

[@coolnobodycares]

I mean I've won games at 5 life before, I have even gained life back up to relevent life from a low number in commander so that 21 damage actually is pretty relevant.

[@andrewmoore7014]

Being "close to dying" is often pretty irrelevant anyway. My Yahenni deck routinely went down to single digit life and was totally ok with it, and I've won many games at very low life totals. The only point of life that matters is the last one. This is also why Sorin Markov is an awful card that you should not play.

[@Woodsy2575]

I really like the way DJ presents things, instead of saying "I'm right and here's why" in the way Josh sometimes can, he tries to explore every angle possible.

[@LunarWingCloud]

Also, as for Voltron, my roommate has gotten into EDH recently and his third deck built is a Bruna deck and he makes her go absolutely crazy in that deck. She's frequently huge, with many helpful abilities, and can keep recurring her buffs because of her ability.

[@smilepandabye]

These are the kind of videos you guys need to go back to. Less talking about the latest episode on game knights and more discussion on different generals and strategies. Though I could still live without Joshs jaded outlook on the format. That’s the main reason the guest host has been working so well. His excitement for the format was what this show needed.

[@nathanielkeller5366]

smilepandabye amen

[@shaden489]

I feel like chromium is better as a sort of esper control commander especaially as one that cares about the grave yard but even then I feel he is still way to expensive

[@kinosmead]

Jimmy's away? VGHS season 4 confirmed?

[@craftyfirestorm]

14:45 A card to punish cyclonic rift already exists, it's called Commandeer, you try to rift me, I'll take the rift and save all of my things.

[@almightyfireduck1135]

YEEEEEEE DJ! Love Jumbo Commander and I'm so happy to see the collab

[@lidolf8168]

So just a suggestion I have a budget voltron deck. The commander is Tiana, Ship's Caretaker, She's an uncommon from Dominaria. Her ability is: Whenever an Aura or Equipment you control is put into a graveyard from the battlefield, you may return that card to its owner's hand at thr beginning of the next end step. So she can keep your Voltron pieces from being devastated too bad from board wipes for a Red White card. Even if Tiana isn't your commander for Voltron she's definitely an addition to consider in a Voltron deck.

[@fatdzo]

That thumbnail is hilarious :)

[@GreenHavoc]

Great deck concept, Josh and DJ! I was wondering what one could do with the new Chromium. Thanks for the exploration episode!

[@kaijuknight9109]

Hey Josh, couldn't mairsil, the pretender be a version of volton but instead of stacking equipment and aura your stacking activated abilities on mairsil with the plus side that this version of volton is harder to blow out as they permanently stay on mairsil

[@Kestral287]

Which activated abilities that you can only use once per turn facilitate punching the other guy in the face?

[@kaijuknight9109]

Kestral287 what I meant was that like voltron you stack a lot of things on one card, ie mairsil with abilities and voltron commanders with equipment and auras, then use that card to win the game.

[@andrewamann8855]

Kestral287 Firebreathing, and similar?

[@Kestral287]

Firebreathing is pretty inefficient when you can only activate it once. You could argue that the typical Mairsil combo deck is some kind of weird Voltron deck but it's very outside the normal definition of the term.

[@adym15]

A caged Volrath the Fallen makes Mairsil a pretty fearsome beater.

[@OvrlordEtna]

My 19/19 Kaldra Token With Flying, Indestructible, Pariah, Lifelink, Trample, Haste, Exile Blocking Creature, First Strike, Shroud, This thing was one of those robot monsters with 4 arms Wielding Lightning Greaves Augmentum armor, Pariah's Shield, Godsend, Kaldra's Sword, Shield (enchanted with flying), and Helm. Just needed Pants and gloves

[@ownageDan]

21 is less than 40, BUT 10 is less than 21... INFECT SUPREMACY! jk :p

[@comradecameron3726]

I actually just ordered a Saskia infect deck it’s gonna be here in about a week

[@marlown]

Herp McDerp infect is overpowered and very much hated in my play group. Be aware of the power of infect

[@cloaking111]

Herp McDerp well, I would consider grafted exoskeleton if I were you... Infect in every deck ever... Also the hidden mode is that infect says damage, so the triggers on nekusar could kill the entire table if you manage to wheel twice in a turn

[@aydensauvageau9393]

Cameron Stradling xenagos infect, 150$ wins turn 2-3 easyaly and can win super easy late game

[@Jeffxm003]

By that logic 1

[@lunawatch30]

I know im late to the party, but i have been building a krenko tin street kingpin commander list recently, and i love the fact that if i get my general tall enough, i go wide at the same time, its so appealing!

[@thezack12123]

I have a similar thing going on with my Alela voltron deck, just make fairies everytime you buff Alela!

[@lunawatch30]

@@thezack12123 yo i never thought of that thats so cool!

[@markyday9076]

Controversial opinion . . . I think The Command Zone is flourishing with its new host.

[@kennethblakeiii9596]

Thank you for explaining what a Voltron deck is!

[@The_Squirrel_Samurai]

Something that didn't come up in the weekness category, that Josh brought up later, is Voltron doesn't scale well with large games. I play Mimeoplasm Voltron on a regular, and playing a 5 player game is quite a bit different than say a 3 player game. Voltron, in my experience, becomes stronger with fewer opponents. So in a 5 player game I typically sit, wait, and play defensive. In a 3 player game I'm allot more aggressive, and usually come out swinging. When you have so many opponents something you really have to worry about is back swing. So while protecting your Voltron is key and important. Protecting yourself is just as important. So I feel like pillowfort effects are very useful in Voltron. Cards like Propaganda, Ghostly Prison, Lightmine Field, and Pindral Mists come to mind. I have won 4-5 player games with Voltron, but it's extremely difficult. I win games with 2-3 WAY more frequently than games with more players.

[@canamrock]

That's a good point, and I dare say one in Chromium's favor. My attempts at a Jor Kadeem voltron-ish deck were rough because they could only work decently in a metagame so rampant with board wipes it could outlast the waves and play out a beater on turn 17. Chromium can set up for a more standard control game early and then have its commander as a cleaner or emergency wall as needed. Hatred, Eldrazi Conscription, and a few other options seem good ways to set him up for late game kill shenanigans.

[@TheAverageGuyTAG]

I did manage to win a 5-man pod of commander with my Karlov Voltron. It did admittedly require me being able to protect Karlov from the first turn he came down (thank you Sol Ring) plus a spiteful move from one opponent to another that probably should have been directed toward me instead. BUT I'LL TAKE IT.

[@oom-3262]

Idk but skittles is considered voltron or just plain hate to your opponents fun?

[@Yourbeautiful666]

Well, he can do both.

[@Kajiyaification]

its the perfect control card. Your opponent not being able to play anythjing is pretty good control

[@andrewmoore7014]

The best form of card advantage is your opponents dying before their cards matter.

[@kenpachiyugioh1804]

Hate-tron

[@Vininn126]

The more I see DJ on the show the more I like having him around.

[@sonickage]

Interesting episode a lil choppy but i love the discussion you guys are creating throughout the episode, its interesting and i enjoyed it. Classic command zone at the same time you are adjusting to eachothers presence. Thumbs up

[@YT747]

Whether you "like" the voltron EDH archetype or the EDH-specific rule regarding 21 commander damage is irrelevant - both are legitimate and well-represented out in the real world, and the current environment indicates that they are here to stay. You're only blinding yourself to the reality if you don't at least respect and acknowledge that these are very real paths to victory. A lot of the arguments made against either are based largely on subjective opinions and specific examples that are in no way representative of a larger meta. For every scenario that someone recalls where a voltron strategy failed or where the 21 commander damage didn't matter, someone out there can recall one that did. FWIW, personally, I've defeated opponents and have been defeated myself many, many times through a voltron commander hitting me for >21 damage.

[@DerDarkfire1]

YT747 exactly. We have a Ur-Dragon in our meta. He just needs +1/+1 and Double Strike, to blow you out on a single hit. And he's played 80% of the games. So yes, Commander Damage does matter at that point.

[@Kajiyaification]

sure if you live in a little bubble your argument sounds smart and right but yeah maybe burst it and watch the rest of the world.

[@robertcotrell9810]

I felt this was a FABULOUS episode! I enjoy voltron because it offers a unique challenge. I built Rith the Awakener as a voltron. I also have a Sygg, River Cutthroat voltron. They both have subthemes, so I enjoyed that part of the discussion, and very much agree that a deck needs many routes to victory, even voltron. Wide and Mill are the other routes for those decks. This episode was great because it was a discussion, but also a deck tech. We truly got to see inside both of your deck building processes! Please consider this style of video for the future!

[@jpram901]

would you guys ever consider making a rankings list in your opinion on the tiers of the most popular commanders

[@andrewmoore7014]

Unfortunately, there's not enough data to create a realistic tier list for this format. If you want to know the most popular commanders though, EDHRec can give you a pretty good idea.

[@faerie7dragon]

I'd love for them to revisit this topic. There is so many ways to phase out now, as well as less Board Wipes being played, plus more powerful equipment and auras. PS: As well as the many effects that outright stop interaction in your turn, bless you, Kutzil.

[@rolonegative3334]

Maybe a Jimmy and DJ episode in the future?

[@Gorilla_Scientist]

Watching this podcast, and I just wanted to mention the way I built my Voltron deck. I built my deck around Bruna, Light of Alabaster. She can recover auras from your graveyard. I often pair this with casting Traumatize on myself. Entangler enchantment is also key to defending.

[@Gotee93]

I play Sigarda Voltron and she is, in my opinion, the best voltron commander

[@GuardianAngelEatos]

Honestly is there even any Voltron commander that can compete with Sigarda for the best Voltron commander? She has everything that a Voltron commander could want!

[@davidcurtindale2291]

John Raleigh wrong. Baral is the best voltron commander

[@GuardianAngelEatos]

Are you kidding?! Baral?! Baral Isn't a Voltron commander, he's a police commander!

[@TempaValki]

I also play Sigarda, and I agree

[@emanuelepennella1546]

I play Geist of saint Traft as commander artifact. It's very good.

[@dancook6114]

This was a fun episode. I have been playing around with different voltron builds for a while and the one ive settled on uses mirri, weatherlight duelist. She has a low mana cost so comes down early and get suited up while everyone else is still trying to ramp and establish board presence. Her last ability also stops you from dying on the backswing by the ur dragon player, the edgar player or the trostani player who has a million creatures. The second ability means that your opponents cant throw multiple things under her to kill her in combat. I have also built the deck to be able to win with other stuff and doesnt go so all in with auras and equipment. This version has brought me the most success and has won at pretty optimised tables so far

[@marmics96]

My Yargle EDH says "No. There is no problem."

[@LadyLunarSatine]

Dauthi Embrace, Dauthi Trapper and Traitor's Clutch?

[@mikebott6940]

@@LadyLunarSatine Hatred, Stronghold Overseer.... malicious fun at its best.

[@thepumagator]

Much, much love to DJ! Love your channel man

[@prost29javadoff66]

isnt jimmy working on a movie, like hes voice acting or something

[@TheDavidCarfagno]

He is, but if it was just a voice acting job he wouldn't have to be gone for so long. So he probably is filming something live action as well

[@prost29javadoff66]

David Carfagno ok that makes sense

[@gotelc]

Isn't he in New Zealand right now or something? thats the impression im getting from his twitter anyway

[@danielsamaniego4462]

I'm glad to see DJ doing an awesome job here on the command zone. Having the command zone/jumbo commander mashup has been awesome. I hope Jimmy is doing well and can't wait for him to come back. Keep up the good work

[@ChipRed87]

All this talk about Voltron and no love for Bruna, Light of Alabaster? You make me sad :(

[@Swordstoplowshares]

I was thinking about building a Sram voltron deck this week. Just an excuse to play all the equipment I’ve got laying around. This was a super informative episode. Thanks guys.

[@fordhunter2771]

Jimmy is actually working with WoTC on Commander '18

[@Hhhhhh-sz9ud]

He would make Wizards reprint Sensei’s divining top in the top of library matters deck (although I think they’ll likely reprint it anyway).

[@dustickle]

I don't know if this comment will even be viewed but we'll f it. While I was watching an episode of Game Knight, I had an idea for maybe helping your fans feel a bit more connected to the show, what if you'd make a special, in which fans can send in their favourite decks in order to see you guys play them. Of course after you played them, they should be sent back to the fans. Discovered the show a few days ago, really love it, it also kind of made me wanna play magic more often again, really awesome how you guys managed to actually make an interesting show of that kind, love it.

[@benjamintaylor6878]

Tether Mage 2C 1W 1U Human Wizard Flash, Flying Permanents you control cannot be returned to your hand. 2/2 Would love a card like this WOTC! We need something to shut down the Cyclonic Rift in EDH desperately.

[@robertcotrell9810]

Benjamin Taylor I was pondering an enchantment that did this sort of thing. Called Anchor or something to that effect. A 4 drop seems reasonable.

[@discoviolenza1984]

I think it would make more sense as a green or red card since they are the enemy colors of blue.

[@resolvesattackgame1888]

disco violenza I'd say anything but green or blue, because they would be even more OP

[@darksteelmenace595]

disco violenza I think it should be colorless, so everyone can use it, if they want. I wouldnt play it actually

[@C00kiesAplenty]

Benjamin Taylor There are tons of ways to shut down cyclonic rift. Counterspell

[@darkthaumaturge587]

Cyclonic Rift often isn't even that bad, usually. Both those two can really screw you over. End Hostilities and Aura Shards are two of the cards my Voltron-ish decks fear most.

[@irlylikecanada]

Josh is whining these past couple of episodes, and his opinions are too strong. Leaves little room for back and forth.

[@cheapforties7724]

Zachery Wells couldn't have said it better. Makes it harder to watch. Seems like he's acts like a "know it all" now.

[@garak55]

To be honest, I'm finding myself more and more listining to the podcast in spite of Josh rather than because of him recently. For a guy that missplays as much as he does on game knights talking like he's some kind of authority on what's good in edh feels a bit out of place. It's really annoying also when they have relatively low level guests and Jimmy is playing total jank to see Josh take the opportunity to go full tryhard mode and then still lose because he can't read a card to save his life. Or even worse, when he "politics" his way into deals that would never happen if it wasn't his show and guests were trying to be polite. Also voltron is shit because it's too weak but somehow stacks and mass land destruction are totally not cool because it's too strong? Basically "wah wah you're having wrong bad fun!!!! everybody should play draw spells and cyclonic rifts because that's what skilled players do! oh I didn't see that guy had flying, I guess I'm ded"

[@nebula8851]

@@scantron6111 I agree entirely. Josh can be annoying AF, and I'd LOVE to see someone stomp him in a game.

[@philippbayer866]

Please Dj keep comming to the show. You sir cater to all my needs as a spike. Love my Samus voltron deck btw

[@nathannguyen9907]

flickerform is good against cyclonic rift

[@matthewlugo2417]

Otherworldly journey is better isnt it? Its cheaper too

[@Keanebaconburger]

Lol I love the new Nicol Bolas as as a control commander, the look on peoples faces when you -12 someone is amazing!

[@bigpuma2149]

Voltron is amazing I have a nezahn the cat Thor deck

[@mr.warzone6340]

Voltron decks are the best

[@bigpuma2149]

@@mr.warzone6340 yeah I miss that deck lol

[@jeremyconrad3599]

Question: the state ay 52:55 ish that you could discard your whole hand. I think it's just a once per turn thing. It says losses all abilities including the discard ability. Am I right?

[@geekmp3]

Josh, I enjoy your viewpoints on this format but sometimes I just shake my head because the meta I play in with my playgroup is so different from the experiences you've had that has shaped your opinions on cards/the format/the game. Always refreshing, but man... sometimes I think you need to play with completely different people every week. Especially if you're speaking to this large an audience across this diverse of a format.

[@andrewmoore7014]

I don't think Josh and Jimmy even have a realistic view of what style of EDH they play. One or two episodes ago Josh claimed he had decks that hit a 7/10 or 8/10 level of power. Sorry dude, I've seen your decks. You don't. He also claimed such decks could potentially beat competitive decks. Again, no. Now there's nothing wrong with playing EDH at a given power level and the ability to do so is part of what makes the format great, but you should know what your power level actually is. If someone thinks Vedalken Orrery is a good card, their other views are also suspect; what this suggests is that they're playing with folks that play loosely enough and build their decks weak enough that they're not being punished for their poor deckbuilding decisions.

[@nathanielkeller5366]

BaolachUS totally agree they are like WOTC in that they are out of touch with most magic players. They need to get back in the trenches and play with more people to see what's really out there. Playing with the public at GP's isnt even going to give you much of a view either.

[@andrewmoore7014]

I am glad they do get out to GPs. I've played against Jimmy when he was spellslinging at GP Seattle and I saw Josh playing in the Commander championship at Vegas. This is a very positive thing in my view. Some members of the EDH community don't do this *cough*rulescommittee*cough*.

[@MrFeierkind]

I sarre some of your feelings. Josh usually has the most powerful deck at the table or at least the one that feels most comboy (which is just the most powerful thing to do in commander) because the other guys are trying to buidl a deck built on a "fun theme". It's really weird that he thinks vedalken oerry is such a powerful card and it's really biased on their meta.

[@gthecomicnerd9060]

Love jumbo commander! Great seeing DJ interactions with Josh!

[@tsuki7064]

i would LOVE to be able to help wedge but sadly i am a student who barely lives himself so all i can give is my hopes and wellwishes, which i am giving all of

[@gregmaron5672]

How did you get a History of Benalia canvas print that is that wide??? I bought one and the art is cut off on the sides because of the aspect ratio.

[@burgerman3572]

Josh said local lgs, but lgs stands for local game store so...

[@gotelc]

He might have meant Friendly LGS and his mouth got ahead of his brain. It happens... It happens a lot.

[@Totescolin]

Your local LGS and pay cash gains from the ATM machine

[@chillermillercream]

omg god you're funny

[@TheAverageGuyTAG]

+colin campbell You better use the money from the ATM machine to support your local LGS or else it might go under, and then from there it's just RIP in peace.

[@sonickage]

You guys are making the best mtg content on the web rn. Love the deck building on the fly. Jumbos expertise on deck techs mixed w joshs great scenario planning. Only thing missing is jimmys awesome play style and fun builds.

[@REON-pw5ze]

Josh, sorry but your argumentation isn't valid, because it's the same with infect, and we know that you hate both strategies, but how a player gonna win from a Oloro's player with like 1000 life ? answer : infect or commander damage, PERIOD

[@PenThoPlayer]

Laboratory Maniac, mill, or infinite damage are all good options.

[@PixelBush]

Infect, CMD damage, infinite combo and mill are the best ways to do so. It's sad that infinite combo is the one that routinely does the best. I'm personally a mill fan but hey ho

[@Small_Panda]

Will Narramore that's because no strategy wins like combo. All other strategies try to win over a number of turns which means you can't just typically be super far behind draw 1 card and be like yo other 3 people you all lose. That's why combo is such a good strat as it just wins on the spot like alternate win cons. It's why I play jesters cap, oh your combo let me see that deck. Nah you don't need any of this combo stuff.

[@mr.mammuthusafricanavus8299]

Answer: ULTIMATE POWER!

[@spyguy4558]

Well spoke

[@ameenpirasteh333]

At the end you guys got to the idea i had for my chromium deck. Esper has great control cards with w/b removal, and blue counters/draw. Using chromium to be able to play at instant speed is huge as well. He is basically your last resort. Also let’s you play phage + fractured identity.

[@zookaru]

JUMBO!!

[@StrongButAwkward]

Honestly in the decks where commander damage is a legitimate wincon for me (though I don't have a dedicated voltron deck right now), the only reason it's ever 'surprisingly hard' to win off of dealing about half their starting life total with essentially unhealable damage is sometimes other players I'm not tunneling in to randomly decide to help my target. My Yasova deck can knock people out with 21 commander damage as a matter of course due to the fact that she's aggressive and part of the strategy of making her able to steal creatures is to make he reasonably big and to protect her as much as possible. Voltron isn't the main goal of the deck, but it is a core enabler of the attrition strategy in the deck. I don't always go at someone hard right away, but if they are playing a deck that is far faster/more aggressive than the other two opponents, I often choose to tunnel them to prevent them from snowballing out of my control. The most recent example I can think of was mono-G Ezuri elf aggro. The only reason they didn't get domed for 21 before turn 5-6 was the other two players at the table dog piled me to save the *elf deck* from being taken out the turn before I would have finished them. Which, really, is something people can do to prevent most strategies from winning; commander damage is so effective a tool for winning with creature damage that people will actively *complain about it being unfair*, which is pretty good evidence it can perform quite well. I also used to run a Uril, the Mistalker dedicated voltron deck awhile back ("Hi, my name is Earl"). It was probably around the 'optimized' level of power in your other video because I purposely left out cEDH staples like fast mana because I wanted it to be strong but still fun. The deck would roll any table that didn't repeatedly wipe the board/edict at least 3 times because a hard to kill, hard to block death stick that deals damage akin to poison counters is just a significant problem for opponents. A properly built and protected voltron deck can require the table treating you like the arch-enemy to stop you, which seems like a powerful strategy to me.

[@PaulGaither]

I listened at 1.5 speed, and was waiting for anything to sell me on this deck Idea... and after the 59th minute, Josh was asked "are you sold?" - Sold on what? That? That sounds like a pile of garbage. I know that Uril and other Voltron decks are actually good. I have seen one-shot commanders who use time magic and knock out two player before passing, then tell the third opponent "Do something on your next turn or scoop." This is not that deck. This is trash. Hour wasted.

[@pseudonymmetry]

Paul Gaither I can appreciate the new perspective that DJ brings, but I have to agree: this deck was all over the place. It reminded me of the "cleric tribal" live deck build they did with Ayli a while ago.

[@DivinePenguin00]

As a huge Voltron player, I loved this episode!

[@GabesGames]

"Donate to Wedge" 's private magic art collection.

[@alucard64x]

For the record I've spent 16 mana to cast my Atraxa. Yes everything was getting wiped constantly.

[@EloquentTroll]

I don't know if DJ is Bi or Gay, but he looks like the cutest bear in the world

[@Hhhhhh-sz9ud]

Does the 2/2 for 2 that is DJ have any other abilities or is he a vanilla bear?

[@giffs7972]

21:53 is to blow up, and then act like I don't know nobodyyy hargharghargharg

[@MrNemitri]

Oh boy can’t wait to donate money to wedge, especially as he earns more money than me, the injury could have been prevented, and if not prevented, at least covered with proper health insurance (which he neglected to get).

[@tSswiftordawg]

Gee, good thing donation isn't compulsory!

[@graysonchristian2668]

Ooooh I get it you’re an asshole

[@AnonYmous-mc5zx]

Our playgroup actually did a houserule for Cyclonic Rift where if its overloaded, it does bounce ALL nonland permanents, even yours. Cyclonic Rift overload hasnt felt like an NPE since then, as it stopped being that one sided boardwipe.

[@samb123078]

Ill help Wedge by recommending him get Blue Cross and being a responsible adult. I will never donate to a gofundme for someone who clearly can afford health insurance but chooses not to.

[@anonyblah2788]

Bins Wanger how to sound like a dick, chapter one.

[@Noseiwaj14]

Agreed. Its like he didn't understand what insurance was, or he just knew someone would bail him out.

[@resolvesattackgame1888]

Bins Wanger.Buddy, unless you can time travel, you ain't helpign

[@samb123078]

anony blah that’s just chapter one. Chapter two: pay rent or you will be evicted. Chapter three: pay taxes or you will be audited. Chapter four: pay your credit card or you will have bad credit. If that is being a dick then you have a lot of growing up to do.

[@dankeydonk3840]

Wow dude what a dick if you have nothing good to say about it just keep it in your head

[@johnathanhoopes4842]

My first deck I ever created was Jenara Voltron. It was terrible but some games were fantastic. Eventually I built in a plan B, which was Planeswalkers! So now it's my Superfriends deck, because Doubling Season works nicely in both Jenara's +1/+1 counter strategy and the Planeswalker thing. This Chromium deck idea seems really attractive, actually. I think suiting up a flashed in Chromium with Fireshrieker scratches the Voltron itch, at least for me.

[@mattforbes7833]

Go fund me: America's Band aid for not having universal healthcare.

[@ms.aelanwyr.ilaicos]

Please don't rub it in =_=

[@BrunoCasagrandaNeves]

Just wanted to tell how much I'm enjoying DJ's presence. Guess with Jimmy back someday, the show would be even more awesome with three different perspectives. DJ's deck building skills and modus operandi is very interesting. Good work guys, you really can't go wrong.

[@bigbruh-jq8pb]

to protect my Voltron commander and the equipment on it is play padeem, consul of invocation, and equipt swiftfoot boots to him.

[@monsiourglitch6750]

I have a pretty neat Ojutai Dragonlord-EDH. Its a perfect mix between voltron and control- kinda thing. Ojutai draws your cards, has hexproof and the colour identity is perfect for protecting him with equipments and counterspells ;)

[@orohyuno]

Josh: "What piece of aure protects agains cyclonic rift?" Well, my Bruna EDH uses Vanishing (phase out anytime) and Flickerform (blink until end of turn and return with all auras). I mean, counterspell also protects.

[@BobbyxZx]

guys, this is one of your best episodes yet. thank you for the highly intelligent and well constructed analysis. i thoroughly enjoyed/benefited from it. i would disagree with only the point about board wipes being more important in commander than standard, as i've recently realized that unless you're playing an aggro strategy in type 2, the correct number of board wipes is 6. i realize i might be biased towards more old school (non creature) strats, but i digress. i'll add a complement to my slight disagreement, though, and say that josh has the nicest forearms in the mtg youtube community. good on ya, broo, i'm a retired athlete, and i like seeing examples of health/accomplishment in mtg youtube vids. dood, you gotta get those traps next, and rep the mtg gym boys! awesome content, and much appreciated strats. keep up the great work! much appreciation

[@andrewmoore7014]

Honestly I think they're too narrow-minded about board wipes. In my meta the correct number to run is 0-1. In others it might be eight.

[@TnumsProd]

Is Mutate supposed to be wizards version of Voltron? I kind of feel like it is.

[@RickvantHof]

I love Sram, Senior Edificer as a voltron commander. I usually pile a bunch of aura's on it and when it gets removed it doesn't really matter because you're still holding 5-7 cards. Also, Retether effects are a win condition :)

[@Steven-rb7ph]

I have a non-food chaining Prossh deck which is half-voltron built and will often kill players with commander damage. However with the value casting Prossh combined with some good enchantments you can still get commander damage after being knocked back. I'm not sure how many other voltron commanders can do this.

[@leviv168]

Steven saaaaaaame

[@hellstocker7707]

This is so interesting to watch now as I've built a voltron Treebeard deck and it's consistently taking the first player out turn 5. Then if the other two dont have removal it's 6 and 7 for them

[@michaelmolzan3001]

I have Medomai the ageless in my Rafiq deck. If I have him out I can get two extra turns off Medomai because of double strike. It starts to get really fun when finest hour is out.😎

[@bledacansadkogullar7314]

I love to use "phase out" mechanic with voltron. Like "vanishing" enchanment when unexpected stuff occured, just phase out your commander. Also it makes all equiments and auras attach phase out at the same time in-directly. So ...

[@andywymore738]

I’m not Sure if anyone else has said this, but something you have said in this episode really resonates with me in how I am approaching building my own Commander Decks, and that is, that there should be other alternate Win Conditions built into your deck. I think that’s very true for any deck, not just Voltron. I understand some people have their decks so fine tuned, and are such good players that their deck can be a one trick Pony and it’s fine because it’s built that way. But then again with that said, let’s say hypothetically speaking the one trick pony Voltron that’s supposedly so fine tuned that it’s unbeatable runs into an insurmountable roadblock, then what? If there isn’t a few alternate wins, then is it really fine tuned? Or just situationally untuned..? I just find it so much more fun to play and have three or four options to Win, you can argue, I suppose that it detracts from each potential win condition the more of them you add, but isn’t that the fun of building the deck anyway..? Start off and go wide, maybe only feign to build Voltron, but really be building up something else on the side.. 🤷🏼‍♂️

[@federicocarlucci7973]

The only voltron commander I menaged to use in a 75% meta has been Sram. All the swords and the good equipments allow you strong effects, while you still draw cards thanks to Sram at no tempo loss, drawing into "backup pieces of equipment" even if you apparently overextend. Also people usually beat up other decks (usually known combo decks) until Sram suddently explodes and deals its commander damage for the win. Commander damage rule is really the linchpin that makes the win possible Otherwise any lifegain would just outrun me

[@dancook6114]

Hakkai Requiem sram costing 2 also makes him super dangerous because he comes down so early. There is a sram deck in my playgroup and its pretty terrifying. When that deck is in play you basically NEED to have swords or path or something similar in your opening hand

[@mr.mammuthusafricanavus8299]

I find it amusing that I used Sram also but after watching the Commander VS match where one of them played Zetalpa as the commander and Sram in the 99, I tried it myself and I've come to prefer Zetalpa as the commander since in some weird way opponents are less scared of Zetalpa than Sram; Sram is like Flash yet Zetalpa is like One Punch Man. Without Sram as commander, I tend to build up board, opponent wipes my creatures, I play Zetalpa, Zetalpa wrecks with just one or two pieces of equipment. When I used Sram players noted how quickly I was drawing cards that they would often pay more attention to me:P

[@federicocarlucci7973]

Dan Cook I agree When you start the game with sigarda's aid expecially and go turn 2 Sram, turn 3 Sword that is so fast and powerful. You get to turn 3 having already an opponent begging for life and a ton of stuff going on the field because the swords actually add some pseudo-control elements. However I'd never go as far as pretending this is a competitive strategy, but I think that if finely tuned it can stretch the power of Voltron up to 7.5-8, which is a very solid power level for casual play

[@federicocarlucci7973]

Mr. Mammuthus Africanavus I agree that Zetalpa puts a far smaller target on your head, but high cmc, lack of card advantage in white (Sram solves that) and dying to a lot more removal than it seems (people are prepared for indestructibility) honestly makes me shy away from the dino. It has all the problems Josh lists in the podcast

[@mr.mammuthusafricanavus8299]

Sram is a bear and dies to Doomblade/shock LOL, that aside, you are right hence why I removed the silly equipment's that merely fueled Sram instead for card draw, land ramp and tutor effects for artifacts. Zetalpa can simply win with certain equipment's in a single blow, Sram can't, making a more minimalistic equipment approach for Zetalpa. I found it very fascinating the difference in politics and psychology with people when I used Sram/low cmc than switched to Zetalpa/high cmc as my commander. Sram, on average, got the brunt of early card removal with his quick starts while late game Zetalpa had less to contend with; also when Zetalpa comes into play players don't want to antagonize a 4/8 vigilant,etc, etc...Late game Sram comes into play players continue the beating un-abated= no board presence but that is my bias/play style/game experiences like Josh's or yours:)

[@CommanderReplay]

Chandras Ignition and Grafted Exoskeleton work beautifully in Halar the Firefletcher.

[@TrueTgirl]

Voltron is my peronal favorite way to play. I hold absolutely no delusions that it's some amazing, high power, nigh unbeatable thing (unlike some people I know that go to bat for their strategies). But lord is it fun.

[@headbandbecky]

The deck I run that is most Voltron is my Akiri/Silas Renn deck, and it is all about creating Thopters and attaching Equipment to what creatures I have out, in order to either win by Hellkite Tyrant, Purphoros, Mechanized Production or Revel in Riches. Mycosynth Lattice + Blinkmoth Urn.

[@gotelc]

To counter board wipes you I would recomend Unwind from Dominaria. 2 and a blue: Counter target noncreature spell then untap up to 3 lands. It's a free counterspell you just have to have the initial 3 mana.

[@kokujinbeeblebob]

Chromium + Angelic Destiny/Batterskull/Haunted Plate Mail/Slayer's Plate/Vulshok Gauntlets + Ajani, Caller of the Pride/ Duelist's Heritage/Fireshrieker/Grappling Hook/Phalanx Formation/True Conviction. most of those are also quite good on their own for general play in any case and leaves a lot of room to play with control. Also Chromium can pack Null Zone to name Cyclonic Rift :)

[@zeehansen3011]

I play a Shanna Sisay's Legacy deck, which is a bit of a Voltron/Go-wide combo. The decks goal is to make Shanna big enough to kill with commander damage, but given Shanna's ability, making creatures is a great way of doing that. Shoving enchantments like eidolon of countless battles and sigil of the Nayan gods make her incredibly powerful. Pollenbright wings gives her flying and all but guarantees that she can kill with commander damage in a few turns. Murder investigation means even if she dies, next time she comes in she's back at the same power, regardless of what enchantments or artifacts were connected to her. She has a little bit of self protection, not being able to be targeted by abilities of opponents, but if that isn't enough, the obligatory swift foot boots and lightning greaves can make her completely untouchable and gives her haste. Obviously I have back up plans, Midnight Guard and Gond for infinite elves (works with Shanna for infinite damage if she's on board), I can almost always get Ghalta Primal hunger for 2 mana, even as early as turn 4 with a good draw, and of course, if the whole deck is building a whole lot of creatures, then it isn't difficult to just overwhelm through sheer numbers. I don't often play outside of my friend group (not close to a store) but it has kept pace the few times I have.

[@SomeYouTubeTraveler]

I play Voltron Progenitus. Impossible, you say? It's all about stacking his battlefield with fellow creatures with global effects ("creatures you control are / have / can't be" / etc.). Progenitus + Rafiq = insta-kill.

[@ericwilliamson5548]

"IT'S LIKE COMMANDER CHRISTMAS!" Soo true! Great episode, gents!