CineStill 50D Developed in C41 vs ECN-2

[@mthabib2011]

The difference between them is so subtle, it could be the result of the way they were scanned. In other words, images can be color matched during scanning (from film using different process). Comparing images shot on different films or using different processing chemicals is tricky because when they are scanned (by a different person or on a different day) even the same film can give different color. There are too many variables to consider when scan or print from negatives for a comparison test like this.

[@BadFlashes]

Oh for sure. That’s why I mention the whole color correction thing. There are really several ways to go in a different direction with film. All up to individual taste 😁

[@patrickrostker6693]

50D is amazing film! Really enjoy seeing photogs like yourself put in the time to show how it can be handled differently to produce different results. Great video as always. I have to side with getting Vision3 hand spooled like by fpp if cheaper that Cinestill's "version" but options are a blessing in film photography. You Rock!

[@BadFlashes]

Glad you like the content! This one was a fun one to make! I’ve also rollled my own in the past too which is coool

[@autodidact537]

@@BadFlashes It's too bad that you couldn't have compared CS50D processed in C-41 with Vision 3 50D (with remjet) processed in ECN2 with the same cameras, lenses, lighting & subject. I think that would be a more interesting comparison.

[@BadFlashes]

I mean don’t rule it out…. I think it’s all interesting. So never say never. 🤙🏼

[@exploresouthwest]

I've been wanting to compare 50D with C-41 and ECN2 side by side as well. Thanks for this. Now do the same experiment with Portra and Gold 200... Maybe we could just chuck the C-41 chems and start developing all our colors in ECN2? If it doesn't hurt Portra too much and it's boosts 800T and 50D it could be the alternative for those of us who don't want to keep 2 sets of color chems at all times.

[@BadFlashes]

You’re so so welcome. It’s been on my list for a second. And maybe I should try some normal C-41 films in ECN2. I’ve done before but forgot which rolls I did it too lol

[@FlosBlog]

Iso 50 isn’t to bad. I shot Pan F plus at a clouded day - had no problemos

[@BadFlashes]

50 speed isn’t bad at all

[@Franklinruiz561]

I agree! 50 speed is not bad at all until dusk or dawn comes around lmao

[@BadFlashes]

Wellll yeah then it’s a pain

[@newrad2007]

It looks to me like the latitude goes up just a bit with the ECN-2, details lost in the shadows of C-41 looked a little brighter in the ECN-2. Awesome work Caleb! Doing it so we don't have to! Now I want to do this with some 500T and 800T!

[@BadFlashes]

Yeah I feels that’s. I almost did it for this video but … Um laziness

[@rockhills]

I've only shot 50D twice and I actually quite liked it. Not sure why I haven't gone back. Thank you for the chemistry comparison!

[@BadFlashes]

Of course!!! Glad you like!

[@felipeignaciocornejooyarce2170]

Kodak Vision3 50D en químicos ECN-2 es una de las maravillas que aun quedan en la fotografía analógica. Mucho más que el CineStill 50D, incluso a 200 los colores del Kodak agarran un contraste maravilloso (forzándolo los dos pasos en ECN-2)

[@teddyeverett3222]

50D is great. Looks awesome overexposed (if u can lol). I shot a roll of 35 around LA recently and it rendered the Spanish mission stucco texture and tones so so beautifully. It’s a nice and pastel like portra with a warm and slight greenish tint that looks good in nature (at least to my scan). Add a little contrast and it looks awesome. I’d definitely shoot it again.

[@BadFlashes]

Hells yeah!!!!!!!! That’s awesome 🤩

[@JasperBunschoten]

I really love Cine50D. Especially during bright sunlit days. Never have any issues with the colours. Nice, crisp and pastelly!

[@BadFlashes]

Nice love that!!!

[@OswestryGrey]

I will try some. We get sun here in the UK for a few days in Summer. Not every Summer but may be lucky this year.

[@BadFlashes]

I’ll send some that way!

[@BadFlashes]

I mean 100 is close to 50 😛

[@davidellinsworth22]

Jason uploads a video and I immediately look to see if Caleb has as well 😂😂😂

[@BadFlashes]

And we always do 🙃😋

[@davidellinsworth22]

@@BadFlashes double bonus!!!! 😀

[@AlGreenLightThroughGlass]

Cool you and Grainy put up vids on the same day - that's my Friday night viewing taken care of.

[@BadFlashes]

Wonderful. So glad you dig!

[@VariTimo]

CineStill doesn’t remove the rem yet anymore they just get film from Kodak without it. Actually ECN2 developed negatives are flatter than C41 because they were originally meant to be printed photochemically onto print film which introduces contrast. The flat grading thing comes from the way they’re converted to Log after scanning. Also the biggest reason people struggle with CineStill is because they’re harder to scan because the lack of rem yet and cross processing messes up the color balance.

[@BadFlashes]

Truth all the way around!!! 🥰🙌🏼

[@VariTimo]

@@BadFlashes Well thanks!

[@DLivingston]

WHOA, I love 50d. Give it a sunny day and it is wonderful! We also, always need MORE FILM. 50D is tough to shoot it because it's so low....i agree. FILM IS FIRE. So, since I couldnt get the info on what film set you're on right now. What is your job when you're on a film set? End of day, I love it. great video as always.

[@BadFlashes]

Thanks bro!!!!!!! And film is fire!!!!!

[@BadFlashes]

I’m a VFX supervisor 😆

[@iainlaurence]

I noticed the ECN 2 brought out a little more sunset colors near the horizon in some of your photos, and the differences became more pronounced the more golden the light got later in the day. I’d be interested to see how much of that information you can get out of C41 processed Cinestill when you edit. It seems like ECN 2 is a process that makes photos like digital RAW files where they look flat but you have more choices to edit them how you like, as you mentioned.

[@BadFlashes]

Yeah exactly!!! Very very true

[@liamrjf]

50d through the hasselblad I had before I traded it ended up giving me my favourite results 🌠

[@BadFlashes]

Oh noooo I’ve done some reading also. Sometime I miss them

[@dian_photo]

I love 50D... Vision3 tho, not the cinestill 50d. Where I live, it's pritty easy to bulk load a lot of cinema film, than develope by yourself. It's cheaper, you get the right tones, and in studio it's lit!

[@BadFlashes]

Dope dope dope doooooopppppeeeee

[@dian_photo]

@@BadFlashes Yea, and color c41 film is so expensive here in Hungary, but vision 3 is relativly cheap, because of the movie studios around (Netflix's and HBO'S cataloge in the last decade was shoot here, and they use vision 3 film...)

[@BadFlashes]

That’s pretty fantastic. I’d do the same for sure!!!

[@areallyrealisticguyd4333]

I feel like in most situations that I could use 50D I would rather shoot Ektar instead. 5 packs are just cheaper as well.... I will say though 400D has really impressed me. It has a bit more saturation than 50D plus the extra latitude helps a lot!

[@BadFlashes]

Yeah I’m excited to try 400 D! And I do love me some ektar so I feel what you’re laying down

[@NunoAlmeidaPhotography]

I shoot kodak vision 50D often and I think the colors just look better. It’s processed in ECN-2 though.

[@BadFlashes]

Yeah!!!!! Those ECN2 tones are so lovely!!!!! We both totally know it :)

[@LesterBeasley]

Well now I want to shoot some 50D and compare it with Ektar. Love the comparison shots in the video between the 2 chemistries.

[@BadFlashes]

Wonderful. I’m so happy!!!! :)

[@tubecorr]

Never shot CineStill 50D but have shot lots of Vision3. My main reason to hate CineStill is the price. I develop in ecn-2 at home so the remjet is not a problem and the Vision3 film is way cheaper, like less than half the price.

[@BadFlashes]

Yeah, I get that. But sometimes it’s just great not to mess with it hahaha

[@SteveMillerhuntingforfood]

I just bought a 400' roll of Vision3, and loaded a 12 rolls. Looking forward to shooting it. I will start by using baking soda to remove the remjet and develop in C41. Yep it's much less expensive!

[@BadFlashes]

Yep. Definitely less cash money!!! Have fun shooting it!!!!!!

[@tubecorr]

​@@SteveMillerhuntingforfood C41 is definitely the best choice if you're just starting. Less steps in the process and often easier to get the chemicals. I would also recommend getting a 3 roll tank if you don't have one already. 400 feet is a lot to get through.

[@brunof1996]

3:10 Kill bill was shot in "Eastman Double-X 5222, EXR 100T 5248, Kodak Vision 320T 5277, Vision 500T 5279, Vision 800T 5289, EXR 200T 5293" No 50D but a lot of Vision, sooo close.

[@BadFlashes]

Very close. Haha

[@markthemutant]

Shot it two days ago here in super sunny Shanghai no issues (duh) but also shot in narrow lanes with loads of shadows and honestly, no issue, not getting the hate, guess it really comes down to understanding the film and how it should be used

[@BadFlashes]

For sure!!! Sounds like you had some fun!

[@noahholland7655]

you are literally a part of the film photography experience 😎😎

[@BadFlashes]

🥰🥰🥰🥰 That’s like the nicest things ever said to me 😍

[@noahholland7655]

@@BadFlashes ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤

[@GarenMeguerian]

I learned to love Cinestill 50d after I accidentally under exposed a roll by two stops. Loved the results.

[@BadFlashes]

Oh hells yeah!!$ that’s what’s up!

[@chrisgrey7904]

I quite like 50D and some of my favorite photos were taken on it, my problem is with the halations on the highlights especially with white objects. Sometimes it really adds to the image but other times its too much and takes away from the image.

[@BadFlashes]

Yeah I get that. Sometimes it’s hard to know which one it will be haha

[@NoahBility]

That Chapel Scene In Kill Bill Was Shot On Kodak Double-X Or BwXX If You're Talking CineStill

[@BadFlashes]

Oh yeah it was. And it was so sexy. :D

[@floydparkermusic]

I was really surprised to find I didn't like the 800T much, apart from the night time city shots. Didnt expect to like the 50D, much finer grain. I think the reason people don't like it is because like you say you are quite limited with it. With 800t if you have an 85 filter you basically have 400D. I've since moved over to vision3 and now almost exclusively shoot either 250D or 500T, best thing I ever did, literally saving hundreds

[@BadFlashes]

Love saving hundreds!!!!! :)

[@mikejankowski6321]

Okay, a silly question...since you scan and make adjustments anyway, is it difficult to develop in C41 and then tweak to emulate the results of ECN2? Would that be easier/cheaper than using real ECN2? Or are those shadow details and the tonal range not well extracted digitally? Do you modify the ECN2 results anyway? I shoot film and digital just to cover the range. Picking a film always meant picking the palette and range I wanted (I grew up with Kodachrome so WYSIWYG). For myself (until and outside of doing professional portraits and weddings) I did not get reprints with custom corrections. With digital, I like the majority of my JPEGs SOOC (gasp!) and have only played with the sliders a bit on a few images. I tell myself I am saving the real in-depth editing for retirement. So if modern users approach the film as a starting point and have so much power, does it matter which film or chemistry? Only the halation performance or specialty effects (Lomo) would be distinguishing characteristics. How do you see this?

[@BadFlashes]

I mean overall that’s kinda the point if the video. You can totally make it look how you want. I mean film is more about the feeling and experience of shooting. I mean for some peeps. Well and dat grain!!!!!

[@mikejankowski6321]

@@BadFlashes Yup, the old school tactile and the built-in grain.

[@poniatowski3547]

interesting. I shoot Vision 3 250D and love it souped in C41 over ECN2.

[@BadFlashes]

Aw interesting. I should try!

[@ZachACameraGuy]

I shoot regular 50D and I absolutely LOVE the performance, even with C41 chemical. I think it's one of the finest grain you can get from Kodak alongside Ektar 100 and pro image 100

[@BadFlashes]

I was right there with you until you said pro image… hahah jk that grain is nice! But I’m glad you’re on that 50d train

[@ZachACameraGuy]

@@BadFlashes 😂 pro image is legitimately good tho, my friend "modified" he's eos55 to shoot 4 super wide frames (2 sprocket wholes wide) out of one 135 frame, then DSLR scan the negatives. With pro image, each of these super wide frames still looks impossibly clean with very fine grain. Btw yes with this modification he can theoretically get 144 frams out of a 36exp roll, that time i went to retrieve the developed film with him, the staff was obviously confused when handing over the excessively packed index picture😂😂

[@BadFlashes]

Hahaha that’s kinda crazy!

[@dflf]

What's the cat's name?

[@BadFlashes]

Effie :)

[@thenotoriuosbg7372]

I have heard a rumor from a little birdie.... or even CineStill may have said it... but 50D can be pushed with success. Due to the latitude that cinema film has (which you probably know more about than I do). By pushing to 100 or even 200 it becomes much more user friendly.

[@BadFlashes]

Hahahahahahahaha

[@iNerdier]

In my opinion it’s mostly coming from people who seem to think faster = better when it comes to film. I get that, lots of the benefit of fine grain films are lost with really good digital sensors available but there’s a lot to be said for slower films like this and pan-f. It makes more sense when you’re shooting cine film with a 180 degree shutter angle in full sun and need something slower or piling on ND to have a reasonable exposure at a set aperture. Which is after all why 50D exists, fine grain for smaller film formats (like 16mm) and less control. It’s a great film, it’s just perhaps an odd choice for cinestill vs 250D to me. That said, silbersaltz for life.

[@BadFlashes]

Silbersaltz is awesome. And you are right. I’ve shot some 500t in my 16mm camera in full sun and my DP hated me. I did try to get 50d to be fair lol

[@JamieMPhoto]

I think 50D is really good, and I think a lot of people are just scared of 50 ISO ... which they should not be.

[@BadFlashes]

You speak the truth my friend!

[@BIbiVstf3sx]

imo, tought to wb, but pretty in some scene

[@gewglesux]

Cheers for the vintage 4 Runner. oh yeah... you guys too

[@BadFlashes]

Haha we all will take that. 😂

[@jansayga1465]

please make a video on true vision 3 250d developed in ecn-2 🙏🙏

[@BadFlashes]

I may not have anything soon, but my amigo does stay tuned for that :-)

[@2071photo]

I’ve been told it’s because I shot it in 35mm and should give it a chance in 120.

[@BadFlashes]

I mean 120 is sexy AF always

[@mpk33]

As primarily a B&W shooter, it's not my kinda thang, but you go (Jason's 2nd) gurlllfriend! ;-)

[@BadFlashes]

you never know! maybe you will dig it!!!!!!

[@alberte58]

Why using the manipulated Cinestill 50D if you can use the real stuff KODAK Vision 3 50D. Here in Europe I get KODAK Vision 3 - 50D (or 200T/250D/500T) by Silbersalz35, who repackage the film in 35mm cartridges, develop the film in ECN-2 with a dedicated machine and scan the film. So no need for Cinestill ….

[@BadFlashes]

Yeah totally but the remjet removal is nice for most … I would always use Silbersalz if they were closer. But they are not 😭

[@mannyteeXD]

uploaded too close to jason, peed in excitement

[@BadFlashes]

Oh yeah baby.

[@milandoersam]

Bad Flashes=Good Vibes

[@BadFlashes]

Love that you love the vibes!!!! The best only :)

[@PhilMakesThings]

I tried it on a nice sunny day last summer… found it a bit… meh. Needed a lot of grading for my liking.

[@BadFlashes]

That can happen toooo

[@AstonsVintageTechnologyWorkshp]

How about expired Pan25 film... Got a bulk roll a while back. You need the world to stop revolving or a nuclear blast to get enough photons up that puppy. Nice grain though, very fine and linear. Note to self, shoot more...

[@BadFlashes]

shot shot shot!

[@da009999]

Have you ever been attacked or in danger from squatters in these abandoned buildings?

[@BadFlashes]

Nope I’m glad.

[@mikejankowski6321]

While carrying Medium Format cameras?!?!?

[@nikchi]

film is fire merch when?

[@BadFlashes]

Oh yeah!!!!! Lol be that idea.

[@malteeckhardt4546]

pure gold

[@BadFlashes]

I love gold!!!!! Or CineStill

[@malteeckhardt4546]

@@BadFlashes let it speak for itself

[@mikejankowski6321]

@@BadFlashes If you start calling yourself "CineStillfinger" we will know how far you have gone.

[@BadFlashes]

Hahaha I like that

[@xavierjay1]

I love 50d. It's just the 50 iso

[@BadFlashes]

50 can be a struggle sometimes

[@srad.]

me , a 50d lover, only now noticing how much people hate it 👁👄👁

[@BadFlashes]

Oh it is sexy for sure!!! And I just got 400d in 🤙🏼🥳🥰😍

[@besimai]

I always wandered how c41 film looks in ecn2....still no answer :\

[@BadFlashes]

It will come. Don’t you worry!

[@besimai]

@@BadFlashes oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo You just made my day! And I've got a Canon Elan 7 and a 70-200 f2.8!

[@BadFlashes]

Nice!

[@andrewbuckler]

50D is cool.

[@BadFlashes]

Right!!!!

[@rubygreene8499]

ECN2!!

[@BadFlashes]

4lyfe

[@DB-wv8oq]

good vid mate, u kinda sound like ryan reynolds lol

[@BadFlashes]

I’ll take that he’s sexy and funny. 🫣😝🥰🤣😅🥹

[@nelxonmiranda]

You can’t buy 50D. Nobody has it. Where who? Sammys didn’t have any last week or the week before that…neither did FROMEX.

[@BadFlashes]

No one has nothing everything’s gone

[@theonlinething1039]

I hate pooping, cinestill 50d‘s fun though

[@BadFlashes]

CineStill is fun! I dig for sure!

[@MarksPhoto]

If you have a problem with 50D, you never would have survived Kodachrome 25 or 64. (talking speed, not color)

[@BadFlashes]

I dig 50 speed for sure :) so I feels ya

[@mosesp6200]

I don't know if someone ever told you... but you a have stalker! You can see him in a lot of your videos. His name is justin, jonah, jimmy or something like that... please be careful! Oh, and some more b&w content would be great. You will get more subscribers, comments, likes and mojo by producing more b&w content. Just saying...

[@BadFlashes]

Awwww yeah. Thanks for the heads up. Lol And I wish black and white content did well. Every black and white vid I do does horrible 😵‍💫😭

[@TimothymakeupsDitzler]

i love your cat

[@BadFlashes]

Ahhhhhhhh you dooooo?????? You’re about to make me cry…. 😹😹😹

[@CaptainPsychopath69]

50Dlicious

[@BadFlashes]

Oh hells yeah. This comment here!

[@larson0014]

Good cinestill ad

[@BadFlashes]

Now if only I got paid…. That would be nice. Haha

[@jesseobeneta7390]

Luv u baxter

[@capcaplightleaks5869]

Perfect speed for bleach bypass.

[@BadFlashes]

Oh shit…. That’s right!!! Now I must try

[@capcaplightleaks5869]

@@BadFlashes To make it a more cinematic look, try Pentax 67 + 135 roll film in 220 mode, perfect 19 frames of 70mm width panorama, wider than Jason's 65mm width x-pan.😎

[@BadFlashes]

Or use a Mamiya 7 pano back ….

[@capcaplightleaks5869]

@@BadFlashes oh right, and compare the 135 adapter experience between MF SLR and MF RF, two birds with one stone.

[@BadFlashes]

🪨🕊🕊

[@Broesky]

10:00

[@BadFlashes]

🤙🏼

[@sesa2984]

I take issue with the shag carpet comment. It would be 'good' everywhere if society would loosen its boundaries. Or not need to vacuum.

[@BadFlashes]

lol I don’t even remember 😆😛

[@peteanddrake4242]

as a film processor--I hated it. special processing and 9/10 times it was ruined by the shooter. Every time I see Cinestill in a lab order I know it's gonna be an angry customer who does not want to admit they f--ed up.

[@BadFlashes]

Well with the rise of film I can see that happening more :/

[@paulhohnecker8388]

make #filmisfire a thing please

[@BadFlashes]

Oh I think it has to happen.

[@orestes1984]

You're simply developing it wrong, get some actually Kodak Vision 3 50D and develop it in ECN2 and it will change your opinion entirely.

[@BadFlashes]

Right haha

[@orestes1984]

@@BadFlashes you would be surprised how much difference shooting this film with its remjet coating makes. Also, like you said, while the colours are similar enough. Developing in C41 is cross processing. The colours are about 95% the same but there is enough of a difference. The remjet is the other missing piece.

[@ffamsterdam]

Can you please speak so that the viewers can understand what you are saying?

[@BadFlashes]

🤣 Maybe try .5 speed

[@ffamsterdam]

@@BadFlashes Thank you for the advise.

[@brycepinson8641]

50D is so flat you can use any print from it as a grey card

[@BadFlashes]

Hahaha solid burn 🔥 🤪

[@ilikecereal156]

edit 01

[@BadFlashes]

All day!!!!!

[@eatenbyopium]

50D is the best film stock

[@BadFlashes]

!!!!!! 🍕🤙🏼