Cinewhoop Tuning - P/D Balance

In this video, we tune the P/D Balance (or P/D Ratio) of the iFlight Cinewhoop.
BF BBE: github.com/bet...
Tuning Principals: tiny.cc/pidtuning
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[@supfly51]

After having a complete nightmare with my new taycan that had been put together on a friday afternoon and never flew right from day one, i just dropped your numbers in off your screen as a last ditch attempt before binnng it and it's already hovering more stable and less twitchy, now i can fine tune when i fly it outdoors thank you for making this video!

[@fcass]

This is great. I built a cinewhoop for my roomate (He's quadriplegic and is doing awesome flying!). We used the Diatone Taycan frame and a bangood tyro79 for everything else. It flies pretty great, but clearly needs some tuning. It does a scary yaw washout (like the first 2s whoops) and seems to kind of bobble. I really want to understand tuning. I would love some sort of reference chart saying for eg. Bounceback on rolls = try raising D (making stuff up) and lowering FF. Washout after dive = try rpm filtering if you haven't and add to this and subtract from that, etc. I will watch these a few times and if you have a place to point me, I'd really appreciate it. Best regards, thanks for the videos!

[@fcass]

Oh, duh, you linked your pid tuning guide. Thanks!

[@kelvinguan4201]

Awesome video, looking forward to the next one talking about the effects on increase or decrease P and D together. I already got a good P/D on my 2.5 inches by following your videos.

[@heartpilotOB]

😱Nosebleed 😢. Think got the gist of it, need to play this back in slo-mo 😅. Congratulations and more power👍👏😎

[@uavtech]

Welcome to PID Control! :-)

[@edouardmalot51]

Thanks for this vidéo. Slider are very good, only one point : When we disable Dmin, the lower value of D is keep (I would prefer the highest)

[@uavtech]

The lower is what D-gain is for 95% of the flight when D_min is enabled. That is why it is kept.

[@edouardmalot51]

@@uavtech I think you mean with FF = 0

[@uavtech]

@@edouardmalot51 , check out Debug D_min on your next flight.

[@edouardmalot51]

​@@uavtech OK I will try. But I think I wasn't clear : When I disable Dmin in BF configurator, the lowest D value is used (20 on roll by default) so P/D ratio is 42/20=2.1. Isn't it quite high ?

[@edouardmalot51]

With the higher D value, P/D = 42/35 => 1.2. (So it seems closer to usual P/D ratio)

[@MarioSurfinTheSky]

Finally!!! We've been waiting too long for this video.

[@SolidousMdz]

I am going to be quite honest here, I have not tunned my bumblebee build yet (custom build in that frame), but flying it with defaults I felt much better with Emuflight defaults than with BF4.1 with RPM filters (using iFlights tune), I will use your video to try to retune mine in BF!

[@uavtech]

Emu what?

[@SolidousMdz]

@@uavtech github.com/emuflight/EmuFlight haha really good for whoops overall

[@stickboyfpv4742]

2:47 daaamn it! Storry of MY fpv life😆😫! Never fails something completely shot like that happens to me every time I go fly...! Sorry that happen yo! Thanks a lot for taking the time to make these vids!

[@uavtech]

Yeah, my fault. Happens. Oh whelp. I have a new board on route.

[@lievenvv]

Conformal coating rocks!

[@brokenprop2474]

Tunning from a pro, so needed! Thanks you for sharing your knowledge

[@sinnedfpv5333]

I am trying to get a good tune out of my taycan. I am suffering from the classic roll wobble on low throttle and in dirty air close to the ground. After some tuning the flight characteristic improved a lot. I am now experimenting with rpm filter i just used the classic setting that i use on my 5". is there anything you would change?? It would be nice to have a follow up video on how to tune filters on cinewhoops! 😏 Thank you for all the great content mate!

[@SteveCEvans]

At 9:06 you show a full roll and on this trace it's clear that the slope of the gyro trace is less than the set point. That's the best way to spot P that's too low. I raise the P term until the slope of the gyro trace matches that of the set-point. That will most likely result in overshoot which I then eliminate by raising the D term. I then raise I (which is largely a matter of taste) to get a locked in feel and make any final (hopefully small) P & D tweaks to make sure the rising step response is still OK. I tends not to impact the rising edge of such a trace, but too much really messes up the falling edge with bounce back. I-term relax then needs to be adjusted (it's very much a compromise between responsiveness and bounce back) to clean up the falling edge. With a clear, but delayed, step response, I raise FF to remove the delay.That results in overshoot again at which point I copy the D terms to Dmin and then raise D to kill the overshoot caused by FF, making sure that the Dmin boost advance and gain are targeting that overshoot without using excessive D.

[@uavtech]

Where do you come to the conclusion that slope matching (gyro and setpoint) is Critically damped?

[@SteveCEvans]

I don’t. Matching the slope is achieved by raising (or lowering) P. This often results in under( or over)-damping requiring D to be raised (or lowered). The goal here is to tune the rate of change of gyro rotation to match that of the setpoint. This is effectively using P to control how quickly the quad accelerates on a given axis. D then provides the damping once P has set the response.

[@uavtech]

@@SteveCEvans ahhh, you are using the slope to set PD Gain strength. Gotcha. Great input!!

[@SteveCEvans]

UAV Tech this rather takes us back to the traditional method of setting P, then D to deal with any resulting damping issues. I’d never really thought of P as relating to slope until I used the black-box explorer. Prior to that my experience with RC helicopters was to raise P until it wobbles, then back off a bit. But the explorer makes it visually very apparent the the P term determines how hard the gyro tries to keep up with the setpoint acceleration. The amount of D required to control that is Dmin. FF makes the gyro track without delay and thus requires even more damping which is why D needs to be set, along with boost and advance to target any FF induced overshoot. I think we’re getting to the same answer, but by different methodologies.

[@SteveCEvans]

Also, you need to keep an eye on the motor traces as P is raised. Many quads will hit 100% on a pair of motors before the gyro/setpoint traces are matching in slope. For that reason I log flips and rolls at mid-throttle as that reduces the motor headroom and makes for an aggressive tune that performs consistently over a wider throttle range. Of course 6S helps solve such issues!

[@wsterlingy]

That was a great video. I learned a lot. Thanks!

[@barnstormrcsessions2951]

Great tech! 👏 Serious love it new sub🤙

[@Tracks777]

lovely stuff

[@MortonsontheMove]

Your vids have been very helpful in understanding PID tuning so thanks! I am trying to get the same quad flying right and cannot get the Pitch under control. Out of the box it has terrible fast oscillations in the Pitch axis only at mid throttle forward flight. Gyro data is very noisy on pitch only too and I cannot seem to tune it out, Any idea on what might be going on when one axis is performing so drastically different than the others. I have made sure its balanced properly. Thanks!

[@uavtech]

could be a bad gyro. what does the log look like?

[@hobby.man_]

you are doing a great job, buddy👍✔

[@hateeternalmaver]

LOL, first flight he does already looking -perfect- pretty good.... ;D

[@uavtech]

Yeah, iFlight did a custom tune. But any other Cinewhoop does need work.

[@Tracks777]

awesome video

[@sunsetpark_fpv]

2:49 Doh! Did the wet snow kick up into the ESC from the throttle punch, or from the flip? Ok, I have 1 question sir: How did you arrive at the feedforward values, and why a zero feedforward transition? Did I miss an earlier vid? Your tuning videos are so deep - I have many of them in my list but unless I have the time to SIT AND PAY ATTENTION I hold off on them. Thank you!!

[@FPV-Jon]

Didnt work. Tried Emu instead. :pTHanks for all you do UAV! :D

[@sunsetpark_fpv]

Hello UAV Tech - How did you arrive at the feedforward values, and why a zero feedforward transition? @ 17:30 the FF values suddenly change to 200/200/100 with a 0 FF transition. Is this accurate? Why a 0 FF transition? Thank you in advance.

[@bilemediadrone1388]

Thanks for the review, I'm new to this world and I learn a lot with your channel. Do you recommend flashing to BF 4.2 from now on ? I'm looking for smooth flights :) Take care !

[@uavtech]

Yep, 4.2 and Actual Rates with Sensitivity at 10.

[@personaldronerepair6141]

Great video! Now...if I can just get my Mavic 2 Pro to flip like that...🤔

[@jmcinematics]

Sooo you got the tune good? Cause you said in the next video we continue? Would be awesome cause my bumblebee is flying not 100%

[@LakayFPV]

Wow, are you in Acro mode? I have a new Green Hornet by iFlight as well and having problem on hot motors

[@uavtech]

It is probably over proped. These cinewhoops suffer from that bad. Too much weight.

[@outboxfpv4360]

Hi nice one i have the same frame build with HGLRC F428 stack and 1408 3600kv geprc motora. The weight with gopro and 4s comes around 600g. The motors are very hot can even hold and it was flying horrible until i did ur tune. Now it flyes smooth but the motors are still very hot. How can i solve this issue please help sir. I tried reducing Dgain but still motors are too hot. Iam worried will i burn my motors?

[@EricBartolo]

I'm all very new to this hobby... does this help with cinematic, slow flying?

[@uavtech]

Yes

[@AhmadFPV]

Hey Do you have a lid tune for a bigger whoop like the QAV 5 inch pro whoop? And does this method apply to the qav pro 5inch

[@uavtech]

Method applies to all. Check out my Presets in 4.4

[@jakeheizman]

What motor kv is this using and is it 4s? I have a taycan I'm trying to tune with 2700kv and 4s and in black box its showing consistent overshooting no matter how high I raise the master slider and even still when I max out the pd balance slider.

[@FPV-Jon]

Imma gonna trie this on 4.2. Wish me luck.

[@lervikfpv379]

Did you change anything in the filter settings, or just the PIDs? Gonna try your PIDs on my 6s Taycan, cuz it flys horrible :( And are u using bidirectional dshot and RPM filters on the cinewhoop?

[@uavtech]

Yup. I would just enable RPM filtering.

[@lervikfpv379]

@@uavtech Got to test my quad now with your settings. It flies smooooth :D Almost no wobbles at all. Thank you so much!

[@meracing6034]

what device you use to record ? i look for something smal and light for a 2.5 or 3 inch model.

[@uavtech]

In this video it was the DJI Air unit.

[@rajeevgopal3961]

Hi sir need help. I am using the same frame but custom build with HGLRC f428 stack and Geprc 1408 3500kv mot. My mot are getting very hot sir cant even touch it. What could be wrong. It flyes good after RPM filering but mot getting very hot now. Even before it was hot

[@Reecefpv]

We need this video for the Taycan 3" cinewhoop. I can't get it to stop twitching and jerking from the slightest wind even if it just from the quad it's self and inside the house too. Iv soft mounted everything too and it has a capacitor. I fly it upaway from it's prop wash and it still does it. And if I get close to ground and hover it will flip over violently. Like I can justland the disarm I have to drop it to keep it from flipping and it did this right out the box too. Running betaflight 4.1.2 all defaults. I calibrated esc and accelerometer as well.

[@uavtech]

Sounds like a bad gyro. I would log it and post.to the Logging FB group for help.

[@Reecefpv]

Someont needs to make a cinewhoop tuning video for just smooth flyin and to just make it as smooth as possible. With the most resolution. I use seriously low rates with expo too and it help and turned down throttle boost. But I don't know much about tuning really. I'm trying though lol

[@uavtech]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/aYSvkJSGhKeed5I

[@guguslangit2230]

hi UAV Tech, do you have settings for mobula7..? in frimeware 4.1.1 thaks

[@pixelcito]

Awesome video! Maybe you can help me!! I have a bumblebee 6s, and after 1 min of flight, I touch the motors and are very very hot, I can´t touch them.... First day of fly, after 3 minutes, I had one motor burned and dead. I tried to put the factory settings but Im still have very hot motors....Im using 1250mah 6s and I don´t have idea what I can do for resolve it. Do you think im carrying too much weight? I see a lot of videos with 1300 and 1500mah and gopro. I have 633gr with lipo and gopro....Hope you see my comment! Thank you in advance!

[@uavtech]

Yes, reduce weight.

[@pixelcito]

@@uavtech Thank you ! I will try, but im using the battery that manufacturer recommends...so its a little weird. I have noticed that only the front motors heat up...

[@nathanvegerano8649]

Can you also make pid tuning and rpm filtering on diatone taycan 4s?

[@uavtech]

I don't have one. Follow the same procedure.

[@ilcorso2680]

Great Video! Can I put these pids in my Taycan 4s with 1606 engines?

[@maher_awa]

hi , i have problem , my dji controller is not responding to arm the quad an i tried it on betaflight but it's not showing either please help me out on this ! thank u

[@uavtech]

In BF, when hooked up and quad plugged in, with smoke stopper or props off, can you see the bars move around in the Receivers tab when you move the sticks? Keep in mind you have to have lipo plugged in to the quad to power DJI Air Unit.

[@maher_awa]

@@uavtech Thank you for replying! the lipo is plugged and props are off but still the bars aren't moving , plus when i disconnect the BETAFLIGHT and try to arm it doesn't respond !

[@MrOrangeman18]

also when checking my PID D roll yours is smooth and mine is really spikey every 2ms or so, what would cause that? cheers

[@MrOrangeman18]

infact looking at it its doing it on the PID D pitch also but yaw is clean

[@MrOrangeman18]

workspace 4 and 5 are blank for me with the jason file. not sure why, the rest are ok though

[@uavtech]

Yup. They are just blank. See doc at download location of JSON file.

[@outboxfpv4360]

Hey bro i followed ur tune on my custom made bumble bee and it flyes good now. Now since BF new version has released should i flash it will that make a difference?

[@uavtech]

Yes, the new Actual Rates with a Sensitivity of 10 is great for Cinewhoops.

[@outboxfpv4360]

@@uavtech Ok but do i need to make any changes on the pids that you have mentioned earlier? Can i copy cli dump from old to new BF?

[@DronieBoy]

Can you apply this pids to the megabee?

[@uavtech]

Maybe. but you don't know until you try. proceed with caution and ALWAYS check motor temps before and after. Cinewhoops tend to see hot motors regardless, so proceed with caution.

[@utchiepulini]

are u using 1500mah 4s? its struggling with the hero8 on and im only using 750mah 4s..

[@uavtech]

In this video i did not have a go pro mounted. I finally mounted a Session 5. With a 1500 4S she is heavy but flies.

[@utchiepulini]

@@uavtech thanks! Hope u make a vid upgrading those motors to 6s :)

[@babipsylon]

Is this for the V2? I got super hot motors stock. FF was high.

[@uavtech]

Yeah, the quad runs hot on motors in general with a GoPro mounted.

[@babipsylon]

@@uavtech Check. | noticed :D . Couldn't get the motors cool in any way.

[@bikkevliegenfpv5867]

@@uavtech I lowered the pids up to a point where it feels not locked in anymore. Sadly. Motors still hot even then.

[@uavtech]

Yeah, too much weight. Over propped. Try some lower pitched props.

[@bikkevliegenfpv5867]

@@uavtech thx for the advice!

[@marius-fpv]

Is it more dificult to tune a cinewhoop with kiss?

[@uavtech]

Should be the same process. Just less stuff to turn off (advanced PID features).

[@marccretten]

Where can we find the P/D xls calc?

[@uavtech]

tiny.cc/uavtech

[@marccretten]

@@uavtech Many thanks!

[@princesfpvdrones]

Total greek to me, but I know I need your kind of tune..

[@maplechill75]

FIRST!!!!

[@martinverbaas]

Wached all you videos but never get it right. Frustrates me like crazy. Can you ever show a quad that has a bad tune instead of starting with a good one?

[@uavtech]

Yes.

[@martinverbaas]

@@uavtech Reading back my own reply it seems very negative, sorry for that. You do great work and I cant thank you enough! Keep it up for us tuning impaired

[@uavtech]

No worries. Here is a video with a bad to good tune: kzbin.info/www/bejne/qWbJdYt8ltF6npo