M140i Upgrades // Part 4: Brakes!! Ferodo DS2500, DS UNO, EBC, Stoptech, //M & more..

[@RichardFanders]

Thanks for the info, I was thinking of giving the DS Uno a go as a dedicated track pad but I still have to drive to and from the circuit so I may stick to the DS2500. They're good enough although more life from the DS Uno pads may make them better value for money with better performance but I've had pads before that crack and it's something I'd rather avoid.. Totally agree with you about plain discs. The DS2500s lasted me 4 dry days and 2 dry evenings on track - ND MX5.

[@Setright]

DSuno do work on the public road. Maybe not in winter (less than 10 degrees C), but you can get to and from the track. They aren't legal for road use, because they haven't been through the rudimentary testing that grants R90 approval.

[@stefanrusu9487]

Hello! Nd owner here. Where din you buy the ds2500? Thanks!

[@andrewf7822]

I own a 140, really great channel ,keep up the good work.

[@CIRCUITDRIVERCARS]

Andrew F thanks Andrew! Enjoy yours!! What colour btw?...

[@andrewf7822]

@@CIRCUITDRIVERCARS Sunset Orange. Bought it pre registered and got £4k off. It was the only one the dealer had. Would not have been my first choice for colour but quite like it now. Have done nothing to it, car is 2 years old. Watch your channel for ideas.

[@CIRCUITDRIVERCARS]

Andrew F love it... sunset would have been my first choice without a doubt, simply stunning!! They’re brilliant cars even as standard, glad to be a bad influence though! 😈

[@andrewf7822]

@@CIRCUITDRIVERCARS Loved your vid about fitting an LSD. Wish mine had one.

[@CIRCUITDRIVERCARS]

Andrew F it’s such a shame they didn’t come with a slippy diff as standard, they would be even more widely appreciated and iconic cars.

[@carllynch8798]

Damn ! I’m missing my track days ! I’ve got DS1.11 pads braided lines, 660 brake fluid, HC plain Brembo discs on my R26 Megane and on my B5 RS4 I have DS2500 pads Cooling ducts, braided lines. Great vid.

[@CIRCUITDRIVERCARS]

carl lynch you sir, are winning at life with that combo!! Great pair! Do the 1.11s stand up to track abuse ok?

[@carllynch8798]

CIRCUIT : DRIVER DS1.11 pads are brilliant on track much better then the DS2500 I had previously. I experienced the DS1.11 pads in my mates GTR at Donington too so good on a heavy car.

[@CIRCUITDRIVERCARS]

carl lynch great feedback from the GTR too, that must be a serious test for pads!!

[@carllynch8798]

CIRCUIT : DRIVER we had no fade at all and he was flying.

[@CIRCUITDRIVERCARS]

carl lynch hero!! 🙌

[@TomEnduro]

Track and road are very different requirement sets and finding a set-up that works for both is difficult if impossible. Easy to spec for each individually but something that works well for both? We have bells and rotors and run AP's and run cooling ducts, no servo and different brake compounds front and rear, but then it quickly becomes no longer a road car... I'm enjoying the journey you are taking us on and hoping you are going to bring us to a really great compromise set-up.

[@CIRCUITDRIVERCARS]

Thanks Tom, you've hit the nail on the head there, I think it might be possible to find a true dual purpose solution with some big calipers and discs and some cooling on these, permitting a softer pad. Sadly my budget doesn't stretch far enough for that sort of R&D!! Sounds like an impressive setup on yours, the APs seem to be the prescribed medicine for heavier track or race cars, hopefully I'll own something with a set one day! Given the pads are so easy to change in the OEM brakes it's no great hardship to swap out the pads as necessary.

[@TomEnduro]

CIRCUIT : DRIVER it's the suspension and tyres I'm excited about! Can't wait to see what you do there!

[@CIRCUITDRIVERCARS]

TomEnduro I can assure you I’m busy trying different things and burning through lots of tyres!! 🙈

[@rehman.fahid91]

Excellent video, first one I’ve seen as I’m interested in an upgraded street only pad for my m2 competition, seems like I’ll go ds2500 thanks for your help! 👍🏼

[@CIRCUITDRIVERCARS]

faz cheers, glad to help! Enjoy the M2!!! Absolutely lovely car!! The brakes are definitely much better on the full //M cars but I’m confident the DS2500s will still be an upgrade!

[@997speedy]

On my m140 i have 660 brake fluid and braided lines and before i had yellow stuff pads and they were good on road up too 8/10, after that though they went soft and on track disappeared ridiculously fast, the DS2500 i have on now though are miles better for fast on road driving and are great when cold, the only difference i notice is coming to a complete halt i get the tiniest squeal and the feel of them are ok, overall though in daily driving think there the bet i've tried

[@CIRCUITDRIVERCARS]

997speedy good to have another experience of them thanks! Sounds like you’ve been along a similar journey to me! Have you used the DS2500s on track yet or do you use a track specific set?

[@997speedy]

@@CIRCUITDRIVERCARS No had them on since Bedford in november, so shall see when we eventually get back on track, very interesting videos as its a very similar setup to mine so far

[@michaelgooden1536]

Good vid. Like your M140I content. Keep it up 👍🏾. Nice driving on the track too!!

[@CIRCUITDRIVERCARS]

Cheers Michael, appreciate the comment!

[@bridgeburner1659]

Keep your eyes on the road fella

[@CIRCUITDRIVERCARS]

Always helps! 👌

[@danielrobinson7310]

Endless MX72s are superb for the M2/3/4 and M135/40 etc

[@CIRCUITDRIVERCARS]

Useful to hear! I’ve never tried Endless!

[@Magic_Vince]

They better be, they are expensive

[@raveutcars]

After many many pad choices on both road and track I settled on a Ferodo pad. But was the DS1.11 Amazing consistency in long races and great pedal feel! And haven't had any cracking in 2 sets so far. For road I just stick with OEM now, not worth wrecking wheels although 2500 should be fine for that. Like you stick to plain discs as cheap and replace with every pad change on the race car as they get pretty scored. Thanks for the vid. Really makes me wanna track the 140 when current situation ends!

[@CIRCUITDRIVERCARS]

Oh we can't wait for a degree of normality to be restored.. that first green light back out on track will be awesome, we might even enjoy the briefing!! Good to hear about the 1.11s, what car is that on?

[@raveutcars]

@@CIRCUITDRIVERCARS Its on a 205 so about half the weight of a 140 for that true apples to apples ;) but standard discs only 247mm with no cooling ducts, melts every coating i've used on the calipers. At donnington GP with that big stop in the GP loop they held up amazingly during a 45min race. Much less wear than other pads I've used (typical pad usage about 2 1/2 hours at race pace which indicates high temps the DS1.11 were up to half that again.) Stay safe, see you on track after this is done!

[@CIRCUITDRIVERCARS]

raveutcars great info thank you! Very useful for our MX5s as much as anything! 👍 Did you choose the 1.11s over the UNOs or was it availability that led the choice?

[@raveutcars]

@@CIRCUITDRIVERCARS I've used pads in the past with coeff values close to UNO and didn't like them in the wet with no ABS . Found it way too easy to lock on initial pedal push. But yes was mainly availability. For my car the 1.11 were pretty cheap in comparison to other brands. They have been the best compromise of feel, life and bite for the money. I'm sure there are better out there but they tend to hurt the wallet a little too much.

[@CIRCUITDRIVERCARS]

raveutcars thanks that makes perfect sense, they are powerful at the top of the pedal, so the 1.11s might well make an ideal pad for me too in the MX5. Have you tried any of the pads from PBS out of interest?

[@n.prince2458]

Not bad review. I'm surprised you didn't include the AP Racing 2 piece Competition J-Hook and the Brembo Type 3 brake disc. Those are the 2 best non-ceramic brake disc on the market. I would like someone to review these. Pedal feel must be incredible. It would be interesting to have a mix combination, too. Maybe, Brembo in the front, AP in the rear and vice-versa. I'm also surprised you missed reviewing the Ferodo DS3.12 brake pads. That, among those hot brake discs, above, are the reviews KZbin is missing. Keep up the great work. That Castrol brake fluid information is well appreciated. 👍

[@CIRCUITDRIVERCARS]

I’d love to review those brake kits, just well out of my budget and I’ve never had experience with them on other cars, so unfortunately not we’ll places to comment. The DS3.12 wasn’t available at the the time, but are definitely an interesting option. Since filming, the EBC (yes, really!) RP-1 and RP-X have received some excellent feedback, by track drivers I trust. 👍

[@DjNikGnashers]

Great video, thank you. My M140i is 100% stock, but I have noticed that my old E91 320d M Sport braked better :-)) For road use I am going to look into options suggested here. Interesting that you use Blyton Park, I live just down the road.....

[@CIRCUITDRIVERCARS]

Nik Gnashers it’s a real weak point in them isn’t it, I suppose they’ve got a lot to deal with with all that power and weight! A lot of folks talk down Blyton as being boring but I still find a lot to enjoy there and it’s a great place to push a little harder or try new things at with far more run off! 😅

[@stefanrusu9487]

Hello, sir! How do you make the bedding process for pads, usually? Thanks!

[@CIRCUITDRIVERCARS]

Completely dependent upon pad type Stefan, so I really couldn't advise. You should always seek guidance from the manufacturer for the optimal process. That said, I have been known to do a bunch of hard stops in a row on the way to the racetrack before, or worse still just send it on the first session until the pads stink and I can see smoke... 😅😅 Don't do this though... do what the pad manufacturer says!

[@avalaugh1980]

Would be interested to hear your thoughts on PBS PRORACE brake pads, I’ve also tried all the pads you mention in this video, and agree with all that you say. I’ve found the PRORACE to be at a good price point and perform well and last without destroying the discs in the process.

[@CIRCUITDRIVERCARS]

avalaugh1980 I haven’t used PBS myself, but would try them on lighter cars, I’ve heard reports of them not being up to the job on heavier cars. All depends on the tracks you drive, tyres used, driving style and car so experiences can differ greatly!! What have you used them on successfully? I might try them on the ITB’d MX5 next. 😊

[@avalaugh1980]

CIRCUIT : DRIVER On my M140i and my old 500+BHP Turbo E46 at many tracks and the Nurburgring. Check out there website, the prorace pad does seem to fair well as there description suggests. I will add though I’m no racing driver, but a keen trackday goer.

[@CIRCUITDRIVERCARS]

avalaugh1980 that’s encouraging, odd question , have you ever used them at Blyton Park?.. (it’s brutal on brakes! 😂)

[@avalaugh1980]

CIRCUIT : DRIVER no never been to Blyton. Snetterton, Donnington and Bedford are my usual haunts

[@mdev8846]

Have you tested the new Pagid Street Plus brake pads ? What's your opinion about Stoptech and Zimmermann brake pads ?.

[@azavalos1]

Nice vid guys as always 👍 just done Blyton for the 1st time in my nc MX5, absolutely loved it, came away metal on metal on the rears but I got through the day & had a ball.

[@CIRCUITDRIVERCARS]

Great stuff! We keep going on about mk3s at the moment, great blend of slightly nicer, more modern car and the pure driving enjoyment that we love MX5s for!

[@azavalos1]

@@CIRCUITDRIVERCARS yeah I was with an RS nb & ITB BLiNK nb & they had me in my 185bhp nc in areas but my braking was getting me back in the mix, just ordering new discs & pads as I wasn't on anything special so I reckon I'll have em next time 🏁😂🤣

[@CIRCUITDRIVERCARS]

azavalos1 brilliant, is it Aaron? Think I watched a vid of you playing with Aftab at Blyton if it’s the same bunch?? I’d love to add a budget ITB’d mk1 to the mix with you all once this CV is over and we can head back to the track!

[@azavalos1]

@@CIRCUITDRIVERCARS yeah mate, Aftabs & irfys RS are v good, I thought mine was better on brakes tbh, Aftab sat in on 1st session & told me how to take the track, great fun. Yes mk1 itb I wouldn't mind mine with itb be like WOW

[@CIRCUITDRIVERCARS]

azavalos1 oooooh now a mk3 on ITBs would be wonderful, especially with a 2.3 or 2.5 bottom end. Be so good to have a ~200bhp option without much stress on the engine. The mk3s grow on me more every year! 👌 What tyres aren’t you all using?

[@Trophy_R]

You should try the Winmax W5, you’ll never look back, I’ve tried loads in my MK 4 Trophy R including the DS1.11 and the W5s are awesome and will last a good 6-8 hard track days

[@andyp806]

Excellent video. Do the DS2500s work as well from cold as the stock M140i pads? Interested to see what you do for suspension upgrades, I am probably going down the MSS route.

[@CIRCUITDRIVERCARS]

Andy P yes no probs from cold, only the yellowstuff have been poorer in that regard. I’ve been playing about with a few suspension options and have some other nice chassis bits to cover off in some other vids. For the roads that I drive in Lincolnshire, I don’t the MSS springs would do what I want, for the bumpy roads here I’m convinced the BMW shocks, both passive and adaptive are the weakest links in the chassis.

[@pmrrmm]

I heard good things about the new RP-X pad from EBC and the Bluestuffs wonder if you have any experience with those

[@CIRCUITDRIVERCARS]

Since selling mine I’ve also heard very good things about the RP-X. One of my car friends I respect hugely uses them on his M4 at the track and rates them above pretty much anything. Exactly what I’d buy now! 👍 Bluestuff I would consider a road pad on the M140, they’re OK but not exceptional in any way.

[@jakjak258]

bluestaff can't handle even fast canyon lol.. vibrations after 10min just skip

[@TheChriss1301]

Hey, just saw your video and wondering if you could help me out. Switched to the Ferodo DS2500 on my M140i, but the discs are brembo slotted ones. I drove them about 10tkm with the Brembo Xtra Line pads and changed now to the Ferodo brake pads. So the discs are not brand new. But the pedal feel when cold has not improved at all and feels quite soft. If they are on temperature it gets better and better but it would be nice to know if the coding could help with the pedal feel? A lot is said about the coding that it softens the pedal out. If so it can be worse after the coding? Or am i wrong here? Thanks! PS: I also have changed the brake lines to stainless steel ones and changed the brake fluid to Motul RBF600.

[@CIRCUITDRIVERCARS]

Hello mate, the coding should improve brake feel at ALL times, I certainly only noticed a positive change. WHat are your rear pads and discs like?

[@TheChriss1301]

@@CIRCUITDRIVERCARS Rear are the same. Brembo discs with the ferodo pads.

[@JovanKorica1]

what about pagid rs29's for road and occasional track? or would you opt for 2500's instead

[@CIRCUITDRIVERCARS]

Great pads but can be very noisy! I would honestly have both if possible and change them for trackdays! Sorry, I know that's an expensive answer!!

[@Setright]

That crack is not dangerous. Central cracks perpendicular to the backing plate aren't a problem. It's the result of thermal cycling, causing expansion and contraction. Many pads have a cut-out gutter in the middle to lessen the chance of cracking. Funnily enough, Ferodo DS Uno often have a gutter, but DS-Performance and DS2500 don't. Anyway, cracks parallel to the backing plate are SERIOUS, and the pads should be scrapped. A lot of pad problems do arise from improper fitting, including bad maintenance of moving parts in the brake system. Also...overheating pads will lead to problems, so consider ducting if your car doesn't have any. Lots of perpendicular cracks, or large chunks coming off the edges are signs of overheating. Pad temperature range is really worth considering.

[@teshpawar34]

Hey any chance you could link me front control arms and the other upgrades u mentioned. Thanks

[@CIRCUITDRIVERCARS]

Sure, find us on FB and drop us a message! Details are also in the //M parts video description. 👍

[@ElliottSix]

My DS2500 cracked off the backing plate once rip half life left pads ha

[@CIRCUITDRIVERCARS]

Ouch, you mind me asking when that was, what the car was and what the use was? I had that with a Mintex 1144 on an MX5!!

[@ElliottSix]

@@CIRCUITDRIVERCARS was on a megane rs 250 cup with 4 pot Brembo calipers. Track and road use, actually failed on the road weirdly enough.

[@ScrewwyLouie]

@@ElliottSix ive got a megane rs265 what would u recommend for pads? I dont go on track but i do give it some and do want stopping power without them fading bad

[@DRIZNISH]

Hey, brake discs are due for a change on my M135i. What do you recommend?

[@CIRCUITDRIVERCARS]

Ooh that’s a good question, depends on how you use the car, what you want and budget. The good news is that discs for these cars seem to be becoming more affordable. I think I would wait for a 50% brakes day on Autodoc and would probably go for the high carbon two piece Brembos, I think they would be about £150 for the pair or TRW would be a decent quality two piece alternative for a bit less money. There are savings to be had by downgrading to a one piece disc and essentially there wouldn’t be a huge disadvantage in doing so, slightly more rotational and unsprung mass (bad for handling, braking and acceleration), but if stick to the two piece as BMW intended personally. Quite a few people use M Tech discs, mainly for cost reasons, but I would steer clear (again personally) as I had an MTech disc crack on track a few years back and Brembo have been perfect for me over the years. Hope this helps 👍

[@DRIZNISH]

Thank you again!! 👍👍

[@willmx85]

Lap time round Blyton?

[@CIRCUITDRIVERCARS]

1:10.4 on yoko AD08R, laptimer recorded a 1:09.8, but it’s the only lap within >0.5s so I think it was incorrect. Got a few close to the 10.4. 👍

[@willmx85]

Fair play 🤙

[@IvanS5-5]

What coding did you get? Just “something coded” is not enough info ;)

[@CIRCUITDRIVERCARS]

M Performance coding, I think it's just a tickbox or drop down selection but the coder did it for me for very little money. I suspect it adjusts the servo assistance.

[@2candan1]

I’ve got a 140i and don’t really track it (though might some day). Want improved feel mainly but a little more power would be nice too. You’ve literally addressed my exact situation in the video with the coding and 2500s so thanks for that! Any chance you can remember the name of the place in Southport that you used for coding?

[@CIRCUITDRIVERCARS]

Dan glad it’s helpful, I think most people with these cars will feel the need for a bit more stopping power. I’ll pop a pinned comment up with details, I spoke with him last evening and he can provide the service remotely if you source a cable. 👍

[@martinlee7706]

EBC is the worst i been on them on my GOLF and motorbike......absolutely RUBBISH

[@CIRCUITDRIVERCARS]

Martin Lee I have to agree, I have tried them a few times and been disappointed each time... Perhaps the exceptions to that might be their more serious Orangestuff, Bluestuff and RP1 pads. A friend had the former on a track car (350z so heavy on the brakes) and reported back positively on them. Still, at this point I don’t think I would be trying anything EBC again for a while when there are so many other options. 👍

[@Ahogg1992]

Can you get performance frictions for the m140i

[@CIRCUITDRIVERCARS]

I think you can Alex, I have seen people speak highly of them on these cars but don't have any experience direct or otherwise myself. Always on the look out for new (to me) pad options if they work well for people!

[@Ahogg1992]

@@CIRCUITDRIVERCARS have the z rated on my rs250 for road use and seem to work very well for that will probs get some winmax or something for track

[@CIRCUITDRIVERCARS]

Alex hogg ooh I love the RS250! Good to have some feedback about them, especially since the 250 isn’t a flyweight. I haven’t tried Winmax either, very highly spoken of and very pricey! 😳

[@Ahogg1992]

@@CIRCUITDRIVERCARS So the rs250 is just a weapon but also has oodles of fun factor for a fwd. having owned a JDM sti blobeye (really underwhelming) to a clio 182 (a hoot and surprised many things on track) to the Megane it has all the fun and character of the 182 but just more ability (diff and chassis) with less drawbacks having 6speed box and turbo torque it makes a better road occasional track car. Had the ds2500 on the clio and got the dreaded pad transfer at bedford. Got PF z on the Megane and have all the power and cold bite you would want on the road. Have no experience on track in the meg yet but from what I have seen while in the clio it will be mega.

[@CIRCUITDRIVERCARS]

Alex hogg I totally agree about the Megane, I had a 200 that I truly loved having driven a 265 at Cadwell late last year think it takes it on a step. I was in love with the rear end involvement for a fwd car, always working with you rather than against you but so eager! Great cars! 😊

[@TOMC91_]

any chance is send through some links to your recommended products and in particular coding? would like to do the same to mine...

[@CIRCUITDRIVERCARS]

Yes! I'll update the video details with some product names and example links.

[@dacianmuntean]

Have you tried the new ds3.12?

[@CIRCUITDRIVERCARS]

I haven’t no, are they a new track orientated pad?..

[@dacianmuntean]

CIRCUIT : DRIVER Yes , best bite cold and hot

[@philiphawkins4684]

Who did you go to for the coding?

[@CIRCUITDRIVERCARS]

Philip Hawkins I used Gareth at BMW Tech Services, search on FB. 👍

[@philiphawkins4684]

@@CIRCUITDRIVERCARS was that remote coding or local? I'm a long way south.

[@CIRCUITDRIVERCARS]

Philip Hawkins mine was in person but I understand he offers remote too.

[@sprinter1313]

ATE or Jurid

[@CIRCUITDRIVERCARS]

For those wanting the ‘secret’ brake coding mentioned in the vid, Gareth at BMW Tech Services that I used will do it remotely for £40, you’ll just need your own cable. Per the vid it’s not a cure all for the brakes, but improves the pedal feel. 👍 His page (no association with me): facebook.com/Bmwtechservices/